[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[a2thezebra]

ffs the whole responding to my posts without reading them thing is getting old JJJ

You can't expect me to see inside your brain. I misunderstood you and have just stated how. I was indeed unaware of your paradox thing.

Again, twisting my perspective for everyone else. If the point was for you to see the paradox right when it happened and conclude what I was doing it with it, then the whole point of doing it would be moot. It would be like if you revealed what you were doing at the end of Day 2 well before Day 2 ended. I gauged the reactions. espers didn't see it as a paradox but saw it as a possible error or fluke that should be addressed. You saw nothing at all.

[Sorsha]

And I absolutely LOVE proving people wrong. So if I do get lynched today it be kinda worth it to just have my civvie role shoved right in your face.

No, it wouldn't be worth it if you were civvie. At all.

Sorsha

Btw, I'm guessing you agree now that Mafias attempt to associate with civvies in case they get lynched?

Did I disagree with that earlier?

[a2thezebra]

And JJJ, before you try to argue that no one but espers saw anything at all and that you should therefore be excluded from this, you are distinguished from everyone else because the post was primarily directed at you.

[Sorsha]

I kinda skimmed over the Golden/jjj thing, it was getting to intense for me but I don't think I agree with Golden that jjj is a LC teammate.

Were these interactions staged?

Or this one?

Sorry if those were addressed in the back and forth but It seems like genuine questioning on jjj's part.

[DrWilgy]

WAHAHAHAHAAA!!! Wilgy runs through the room screaming like a maniac! I've done it he exclaims. I've mixed alittle bit of Pinto bean man's DNA with everyone else's to create the perfect being!!! I used alot of JJJ's, for his DNA added to Pinto bean man's has created the ultimate Sweden vacationer! I will call him, Russ! The only player that did not contribute DNA was myself. We can't have Russ having even a fraction of my sexiness. I don't think the world is ready for anyone else with my genes.

I've been looking at the votes (+timing) of the two leads, and based solely upon votes here's my baddie potential list:
Long Con: Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35) 21%

bcornett24: FZ. (19), Sorsha (21), Epignosis (26), bea (27), Golden (36), Long Con (38) 16%

Based solely upon vote timing JJJ, Bea, and Golden are the ones that worry me the most due to the timing of their vote. Bea and Golden's vote timing both established vote ties. JJJ's vote placement would've been really good timing to bus LC, given that LC had just taken the lead and it didn't look like It would change.

Here's the kicker though, bussing LC while knowing his ability doesn't make sense. LC with his vote on bcornett meant that they had the same number of votes at EOD. If a teammate really bussed LC there, they could've moved off of him still giving LC the visable lead, but not the lynch.

Now taking into account of LC's ability:
Long Con: Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35) 21%

bcornett24: FZ. (19), Sorsha (21), Epignosis (26), bea (27), Golden (36), Long Con (38) 16%

If they knew LC's ability, Sorsha and Golden would be the ones that broke the tie in LC's favor (knowing he would vote to save himself). I need to look into both of them more and figure out who is scummier, but in the meantime I'm voting Sorsha. It's harder for me to imagine Golden as a baddie so blatantly defending LC... Kinda sounds like something I would do if I had a wrong read... sounds like something that happened recently before...

[Elohcin]

I don't want to be replaced. I want more laughs. Maybe I deserve to be lynched b/c I failed to vote for LC.

[a2thezebra]

Seriously. This is ridiculous.

That was Long Con, who was neck-in-neck with bcorn at the time with everyone else far behind. Therefore, one of the two that were most likely to be lynched that I was arguing against, was also one of the names I mentioned as someone who would be preferable to those two lynch candidates. I planted this paradox to see if JJJ or anyone else would address it. He did not, only you did. Proof:

Does no one see my para-never mind.

Anyway, JaggedJimmyJay.

ffs the whole responding to my posts without reading them thing is getting old JJJ

You can't expect me to see inside your brain. I misunderstood you and have just stated how. I was indeed unaware of your paradox thing.

He went and found an old post to use as a rebuttal before reading the very post he's countering, and when I emphasize to him what he should have already seen because it is plain as friggin' day, he acts like I made no indication of what was in fact clearly stated. How defense-oriented does a normally offense-oriented player have to be to do stuff like this when they're supposedly on the civilians' side? And it has been like this the ENTIRE GAME. How in the name of fuck is this justifiably seen as a non-baddie mindset?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I did address that Zebra. You may not have liked the way I addressed it, but don't tell people I never bothered.

I'm talking about the paradox. You didn't address the paradox, likely because you didn't notice it.

You're right, I didn't. I had to read your post and subsequent explanation just now to even know what you were talking about. I still don't know what you had in mind with this maneuver or what it might expose.

This right here is what I had in mind. It reveals, once again, that you are more eager to defend yourself than anything else, both then and especially now.

If consistently defending myself when I am being accused of something is a ping for you, then you should expect to be suspicious of me in every game we ever play together.

And don't try to pretend that the paradox was impossible to notice because espers noticed it immediately, thinking I meant someone other than Long Con when it clearly had to be him. What does that say about espers exactly? I'm not sure, but as someone who pulled the maneuver that you did at the end of Day 2, you shouldn't see my much less risky and much less elaborate maneuver as a pointless one.

ffs the whole responding to my posts without reading them thing is getting old JJJ

You can't expect me to see inside your brain. I misunderstood you and have just stated how. I was indeed unaware of your paradox thing.

Again, twisting my perspective for everyone else. If the point was for you to see the paradox right when it happened and conclude what I was doing it with it, then the whole point of doing it would be moot. It would be like if you revealed what you were doing at the end of Day 2 well before Day 2 ended. I gauged the reactions. espers didn't see it as a paradox but saw it as a possible error or fluke that should be addressed. You saw nothing at all.

You're making inferences about my commentary based upon your own pre-established read of me. You're complaining about me saying things that I have not said, and attributing perspectives to me that I have not held. This is why I have asserted that you are tunneling me.

I don't think it was impossible to notice your paradox. I do think it was difficult though. I pride myself on strong thread awareness and I did not see that. Me being the specific target of your post is not really relevant -- your focus was on my suspicion of bcornett and that's what I addressed.

I don't think it was a pointless maneuver. I said I don't get it. What does my failure to notice this paradox tell you about me? That's what I don't understand. I'm not saying you should have revealed your maneuver to me earlier, I understand why you wouldn't if you have something specific in mind. Whatever it was, it's further poisoned you against me and I don't know that I had a fair chance to prevent that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He went and found an old post to use as a rebuttal before reading the very post he's countering, and when I emphasize to him what he should have already seen because it is plain as friggin' day, he acts like I made no indication of what was in fact clearly stated. How defense-oriented does a normally offense-oriented player have to be to do stuff like this when they're supposedly on the civilians' side? And it has been like this the ENTIRE GAME. How in the name of fuck is this justifiably seen as a non-baddie mindset?

You clearly do not know me at all. I'm defending myself as a civilian because my lynch would be a detriment to the civilian cause. Continue accusing me of things and I will continue to defend myself. I don't apologize.

[a2thezebra]

All your answers are in your linki, JJJ.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

All your answers are in your linki, JJJ.

No they aren't.

[Choutas]

[quote="JaggedJimmyJay"]Matt F
motel room
Strawhenge
Zebra


bea
DrWilgy
Golden
MacDougall
seaside


Black Rock
Bullzeye
Devin the Omniscient
Diiny
espers
reywaS
Metalmarsh89
Russtifinko

bcornett24
Elohcin
rundontwalk
Roxy
TheFloyd73

Epignosis
FZ
Ricochet
sig
Sorsha
thellama73

Alphabetically ordered like Jay's

[sig]

Sorsha's gentle scolding of Long Con sounds genuine to me.

Epi if not Sorsha who would you like to lynch, what do you think of Golden?

[sig]

@Choutas why do you think I'm mafia?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Choutas, where am I?

[Choutas]

WAHAHAHAHAAA!!! Wilgy runs through the room screaming like a maniac! I've done it he exclaims. I've mixed alittle bit of Pinto bean man's DNA with everyone else's to create the perfect being!!! I used alot of JJJ's, for his DNA added to Pinto bean man's has created the ultimate Sweden vacationer! I will call him, Russ! The only player that did not contribute DNA was myself. We can't have Russ having even a fraction of my sexiness. I don't think the world is ready for anyone else with my genes.

I've been looking at the votes (+timing) of the two leads, and based solely upon votes here's my baddie potential list:
Long Con: Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35) 21%

bcornett24: FZ. (19), Sorsha (21), Epignosis (26), bea (27), Golden (36), Long Con (38) 16%

Based solely upon vote timing JJJ, Bea, and Golden are the ones that worry me the most due to the timing of their vote. Bea and Golden's vote timing both established vote ties. JJJ's vote placement would've been really good timing to bus LC, given that LC had just taken the lead and it didn't look like It would change.

Here's the kicker though, bussing LC while knowing his ability doesn't make sense. LC with his vote on bcornett meant that they had the same number of votes at EOD. If a teammate really bussed LC there, they could've moved off of him still giving LC the visable lead, but not the lynch.

Now taking into account of LC's ability:
Long Con: Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35) 21%

bcornett24: FZ. (19), Sorsha (21), Epignosis (26), bea (27), Golden (36), Long Con (38) 16%

If they knew LC's ability, Sorsha and Golden would be the ones that broke the tie in LC's favor (knowing he would vote to save himself). I need to look into both of them more and figure out who is scummier, but in the meantime I'm voting Sorsha. It's harder for me to imagine Golden as a baddie so blatantly defending LC... Kinda sounds like something I would do if I had a wrong read... sounds like something that happened recently before...

Holy friggin' shit this post deserves an award.

[a2thezebra]

Okay, for town's sake I will continue to play this energy-wasting game of misdirection with you.

I did address that Zebra. You may not have liked the way I addressed it, but don't tell people I never bothered.

I'm talking about the paradox. You didn't address the paradox, likely because you didn't notice it.

You're right, I didn't. I had to read your post and subsequent explanation just now to even know what you were talking about. I still don't know what you had in mind with this maneuver or what it might expose.

This right here is what I had in mind. It reveals, once again, that you are more eager to defend yourself than anything else, both then and especially now.

If consistently defending myself when I am being accused of something is a ping for you, then you should expect to be suspicious of me in every game we ever play together.

Misdirection #1: Implying that the source of my ping was the fact that you defended yourself at all when we both know that that's not what the ping was.

Ignores: The actual ping, one that continues with this post: that your defense mattered to you more than the information that your defense was supposed to counter, which does not make sense from the perspective of a civilian's defense.

Side Note: You know the bolded part to be untrue because this is the first game where I've even had a scum read of you that I can recall. And if you know it to be untrue, why make it seem like it is true? Because the primary purpose of these defenses of yours are not to actually defend yourself but to twist my words to make your defenses sound more reasonable to me and the other civilians.

And don't try to pretend that the paradox was impossible to notice because espers noticed it immediately, thinking I meant someone other than Long Con when it clearly had to be him. What does that say about espers exactly? I'm not sure, but as someone who pulled the maneuver that you did at the end of Day 2, you shouldn't see my much less risky and much less elaborate maneuver as a pointless one.

ffs the whole responding to my posts without reading them thing is getting old JJJ

You can't expect me to see inside your brain. I misunderstood you and have just stated how. I was indeed unaware of your paradox thing.

Again, twisting my perspective for everyone else. If the point was for you to see the paradox right when it happened and conclude what I was doing it with it, then the whole point of doing it would be moot. It would be like if you revealed what you were doing at the end of Day 2 well before Day 2 ended. I gauged the reactions. espers didn't see it as a paradox but saw it as a possible error or fluke that should be addressed. You saw nothing at all.

You're making inferences about my commentary based upon your own pre-established read of me. You're complaining about me saying things that I have not said, and attributing perspectives to me that I have not held. This is why I have asserted that you are tunneling me.

Misdirection #2: The implication that I am actually attributing words and ideas to you that are not yours, rather than provide answers and predict possible misdirections that I sensed you might use against me. Emphasis that I'm tunneling you not to convince me, but to convince other townies that have a neutral or town read of you that that is what I'm doing.

I don't think it was impossible to notice your paradox. I do think it was difficult though. I pride myself on strong thread awareness and I did not see that.

Again, you didn't see it not because it was well-hidden (it wasn't...at all) but because you were concerned with clearing your name above everything else, which, again, makes no sense from a civilian point-of-view.

Me being the specific target of your post is not really relevant -- your focus was on my suspicion of bcornett and that's what I addressed.

It's relevant because if you were a civilian your priorities would be different; you would be seeking the truth above all else. Which means that if you were being subject to accusations you would call someone out for an error as glaring as that. At the very least, earlier in our current discussion you would have read the word "paradox", and not tried to misdirect attention. At the very very least, you wouldn't have said that you were unable to see what's inside my brain when referring to something that was not only posted clear as day, but was in fact the entire point of the post that you responded to with your misdirection. And the fact that you can't acknowledge how that's a ping, but instead misdirect the attention yet again, certainly does not help. It does the opposite of help. Tunnel vision my ass, I can't help it if every new defense you make makes it clearer and clearer that you have scummy ulterior motives with each one.

I don't think it was a pointless maneuver. I said I don't get it. What does my failure to notice this paradox tell you about me? That's what I don't understand. I'm not saying you should have revealed your maneuver to me earlier, I understand why you wouldn't if you have something specific in mind. Whatever it was, it's further poisoned you against me and I don't know that I had a fair chance to prevent that.

Again, you are playing dumb as to what my actual intentions are with both the original maneuver and my current arguments.

linki: Yeah Choutas, where is JJJ?

[Golden]

OK, JJ, I can probably compartmentalise this suspicion somewhat at times...

My case on LC was 100% correct -- I didn't believe his claim that his bea suspicion was a ruse despite multiple people telling me I should think otherwise including you.

I've never known you to be SO determined about your suspicion as to ignore the multiple people telling you that all know the persons meta, versus yourself who does not. In fact, you almost invariably take it on board in a very measured and careful way. This time you did not.

Your entire behaviour around that end day comes across to me as someone who knew what way LC would flip. Could you be a civilian info role? No - I don't see you ever doing antics that crazy and overt if you had a civilian info role.

@JJ - go enjoy sweden. We can continue this later

I literally told you at one point that my suspicion of LC had waned because of his admirable job explaining himself to me. I had to re-convince myself to end the day with my vote on him.

More on this point: During my "antics" I kept asking Zebra to expand his own beefs with LC. Because I wasn't sure. Why are you ignoring content that plainly refutes your position that I knew what LC would flip?

Bceause I disagree that it plainly refutes it.

I find your posts in this game incredibly fake, JJJ. I have not found your 'deliberations' genuine. They seem like you are pursuing an agenda. Your actions towards the end of yesterday were an opportunity for me to figure out what that agenda was. In the end, I believe that agenda was to bus LC and make yourself look as clean as possible.

What, you think baddie JJJ bussing a teammate WOULDN'T pretend to be unsure in the middle of the day?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

1. And if LC was a civ he would have been a great leader, it's true

This can only be taken or left at face value. I'm not inclined to hound people for Day 0 votes because of my prior noted stance that I don't think it was highly coordinated. If she's bad for this then so are espers and Roxy. This is not a substantive portion of the case against Sorsha in my opinion.

2. I thought it was suspicious of bwt because he just seemed to be riding on LCs coat tails. Once LC "changed his mind" on bea, so did bwt. And I still stand by my bwt vote, I think he was suspicious.... See? I can't read bwt either.

I think this is believable, and it reflects some of the conduct that led numerous others to vote for BWT. I also think this is an easy stance to adopt as a mafioso and don't think it lends a great deal of credibility.

3. Yes... It's called not being 100% sure because I wasn't. Like I just said, I've seen him do something like this, coming up with zany theories and day one plans, and get lynched as a civ.

Could you try to recall one example of this happening to a civilian LC? It'd help me a lot to believe in your mindset.

4. Noncommittal on seaside because I've never played with him before, I don't know if this is how he always acts but I didn't see anything too suspicious in his behavior. I also didn't like the reasons some people were given for voting him. At the same time they knew him better than I did, but I still only think you should lynch someone if you really think they are bad.

You didn't think his earliest contributions were a little suspect (things like him calling Floyd73 a town read and Mac a rogue read)? I did. I do understand you being hesitant to commit as someone that doesn't know seaside though. I probably wouldn't be able to generate a strong stance in your position either.

5. And this would be the point, if I were his teammate, that I should have begun distancing.... not further defense. Or just kept my mouth shut. Or placed a vote on him. Pretty much anything but what I actually did.

You're right that your defense of LC was blatant. If I were LC's team mate I wouldn't have defended him there either. I think you must understand though why your defense of LC might be viewed with suspicion -- it doesn't imply that you're terrible mafia, it implies that you'd be confident in your ability to evade the trouble that followed.

However, I admit that I am not sure that's what took place. Your conduct in the face of recent pressure shows me that you don't feel good about the position you're in or your ability to stem the tide. That's an important observation so long as one can believe that you are being genuine in your defeatist frustration. I think I might believe you.

6. Like I said, didn't think it would matter and figured it would just get torn apart anyway. I'm not the kind of player who goes head to head with others too much like golden and jjj and others have been doing the past day. i just roll over and die In the past it hasn't worked well for me and hasn't been worth the effort

I think your content reflects this statement at least. It did indeed get torn apart, and you did indeed begin to seemingly roll over and die, at least until I opened the door for you to respond rationally.

~~~

I think Sorsha has explained herself at least well enough to warrant a fair response from her detractors. If you're (general plural you) still suspicious enough of Sorsha to pursue her lynch, then you should address this same post that I have just addressed and state why you think it is inadequate. If you're a civilian, that is a fair responsibility to place on your shoulders.

[Golden]

Long Con, JJJ, bea, ricochet, Dr Wilgy, sig.. one more... possibly MM.

That's where my head is at right now.

Wait Golden I'm not sure if I understand your post. Long Con is dead so I don't see why he is on your list, but why both me and bea? I could see just bea, but with LC flip and me being one of the first to call him out and then vote for him, also he himself voted for me yesterday which could have gotten me lynched why am I on this list?

Meh, a list like that is spec. I was looking back at the polls and thread interactions. You were name 6 so by far the least of my theory. The first 4 I feel pretty confident about right now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Rearranging this to address like-points.

Bceause I disagree that it plainly refutes it.

What, you think baddie JJJ bussing a teammate WOULDN'T pretend to be unsure in the middle of the day?

I'd probably make some effort, sure. But you didn't even acknowledge that I made those posts, it's as if they're irrelevant to your perspective of me entirely. That says to me that you're either so hopelessly lost in your read of me that you're not going to bother exploring both sides of the equation, or that you don't want to bother because my civilian death would benefit you.

I find your posts in this game incredibly fake, JJJ. I have not found your 'deliberations' genuine. They seem like you are pursuing an agenda. Your actions towards the end of yesterday were an opportunity for me to figure out what that agenda was. In the end, I believe that agenda was to bus LC and make yourself look as clean as possible.

I've explained my deliberations, and I think I've explained them in such a way that someone who is giving me an opportunity would at least pause a moment -- you've not done that. Moreover, if you really think I was trying to look clean by acting like a lunatic, then I really have nothing more to say about this. That's absolute nonsense.

[sig]

Long Con, JJJ, bea, ricochet, Dr Wilgy, sig.. one more... possibly MM.

That's where my head is at right now.

Wait Golden I'm not sure if I understand your post. Long Con is dead so I don't see why he is on your list, but why both me and bea? I could see just bea, but with LC flip and me being one of the first to call him out and then vote for him, also he himself voted for me yesterday which could have gotten me lynched why am I on this list?

Golden can you answer this? Could you also explain why these players are mafia?

[a2thezebra]

Long Con, JJJ, bea, ricochet, Dr Wilgy, sig.. one more... possibly MM.

That's where my head is at right now.

Wait Golden I'm not sure if I understand your post. Long Con is dead so I don't see why he is on your list, but why both me and bea? I could see just bea, but with LC flip and me being one of the first to call him out and then vote for him, also he himself voted for me yesterday which could have gotten me lynched why am I on this list?

Meh, a list like that is spec. I was looking back at the polls and thread interactions. You were name 6 so by far the least of my theory. The first 4 I feel pretty confident about right now.

Well I sure hope you're confident about Long Con being bad.

[Epignosis]

I don't want to be replaced. I want more laughs. Maybe I deserve to be lynched b/c I failed to vote for LC.

This is an MP punishment all right.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Misdirection #1: Implying that the source of my ping was the fact that you defended yourself at all when we both know that that's not what the ping was.

Ignores: The actual ping, one that continues with this post: that your defense mattered to you more than the information that your defense was supposed to counter, which does not make sense from the perspective of a civilian's defense.

Side Note: You know the bolded part to be untrue because this is the first game where I've even had a scum read of you that I can recall. And if you know it to be untrue, why make it seem like it is true? Because the primary purpose of these defenses of yours are not to actually defend yourself but to twist my words to make your defenses sound more reasonable to me and the other civilians.

You made an accusation that I was defending myself instead of addressing a point in your content that I told you I didn't understand. You've asserted later in the post that you think I'm "playing dumb", but frankly I think you expect way too much of me and you'll realize that eventually. Regarding the assertion that I lied about your manner of reading me -- I honestly don't remember anything specific about playing with you. I mean no offense by that, it's just been a while and I don't recall much beyond "he plays hard".

Misdirection #2: The implication that I am actually attributing words and ideas to you that are not yours, rather than provide answers and predict possible misdirections that I sensed you might use against me. Emphasis that I'm tunneling you not to convince me, but to convince other townies that have a neutral or town read of you that that is what I'm doing.

This is your problem. You keep talking about things that you sensed, or that you think I sensed -- this is not material content that I can do anything with. I'm saying specific things to you, and you're criticizing me for other things that I did not say. If you don't understand why that's unfair, then what on earth are we even doing right now.

It's relevant because if you were a civilian your priorities would be different; you would be seeking the truth above all else. Which means that if you were being subject to accusations you would call someone out for an error as glaring as that. At the very least, earlier in our current discussion you would have read the word "paradox", and not tried to misdirect attention. At the very very least, you wouldn't have said that you were unable to see what's inside my brain when referring to something that was not only posted clear as day, but was in fact the entire point of the post that you responded to with your misdirection. And the fact that you can't acknowledge how that's a ping, but instead misdirect the attention yet again, certainly does not help. It does the opposite of help. Tunnel vision my ass, I can't help it if every new defense you make makes it clearer and clearer that you have scummy ulterior motives with each one.

I am seeking the truth. Read my freaking posts! I have sought more truth than anyone in this bloody game including you. You're hung up on extremely specific misgivings that demand I have a degree of awareness and intuition that I simply do not boast. I don't think most people do either.

[Choutas]

Choutas, where am I?

Second group sorry.

[Choutas]

@Choutas why do you think I'm mafia?

You lack conviction for starters. I get that from many Syndicators. That neutrality, can't make up my mind, not really sure, I'll be looking at it later but won't really do it. On RYM we use the cliche word wishy-washy.

[Golden]

I can see no-one is listening, so opportunity lost I guess.

We had a unique opportunity today, I told you to make it about me and JJJ for a reason. Oh well.

[a2thezebra]

Regarding Sorsha, what the debate boils down to at this point is whether she had a civilian give-up, or a baddie give-up. And it looks more like a baddie give-up to me. She has responded adequately in the sense that...she responded at all (kind of seems like a "I did more than you expected therefore I'm civilian" tactic), but that does not undo any of the extreme pings that came with the beginning of Day 3, and a better defense would have been able to do that. I do not feel that I owe her a more in-depth response than that, as she can still change my mind if she continues to provide meaty content that, if she were to flip bad upon being lynched, could be used to find more baddies. More reads, more in-depth reads, more opinions, more material. That is her only hope to change my vote, and she has a decent chance judging by what I've seen so far.

linki: Is this reason going to be revealed anytime soon?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

WAHAHAHAHAAA!!! Wilgy runs through the room screaming like a maniac! I've done it he exclaims. I've mixed alittle bit of Pinto bean man's DNA with everyone else's to create the perfect being!!! I used alot of JJJ's, for his DNA added to Pinto bean man's has created the ultimate Sweden vacationer! I will call him, Russ! The only player that did not contribute DNA was myself. We can't have Russ having even a fraction of my sexiness. I don't think the world is ready for anyone else with my genes.

I've been looking at the votes (+timing) of the two leads, and based solely upon votes here's my baddie potential list:
Long Con: Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35) 21%

bcornett24: FZ. (19), Sorsha (21), Epignosis (26), bea (27), Golden (36), Long Con (38) 16%

Based solely upon vote timing JJJ, Bea, and Golden are the ones that worry me the most due to the timing of their vote. Bea and Golden's vote timing both established vote ties. JJJ's vote placement would've been really good timing to bus LC, given that LC had just taken the lead and it didn't look like It would change.

Here's the kicker though, bussing LC while knowing his ability doesn't make sense. LC with his vote on bcornett meant that they had the same number of votes at EOD. If a teammate really bussed LC there, they could've moved off of him still giving LC the visable lead, but not the lynch.

Now taking into account of LC's ability:
Long Con: Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35) 21%

bcornett24: FZ. (19), Sorsha (21), Epignosis (26), bea (27), Golden (36), Long Con (38) 16%

If they knew LC's ability, Sorsha and Golden would be the ones that broke the tie in LC's favor (knowing he would vote to save himself). I need to look into both of them more and figure out who is scummier, but in the meantime I'm voting Sorsha. It's harder for me to imagine Golden as a baddie so blatantly defending LC... Kinda sounds like something I would do if I had a wrong read... sounds like something that happened recently before...

Y'all read this post and tell me why DrWilgy is bad.

[Golden]

If you all refuse to make it a thing between me and JJJ (which I think would be a win/win), I still think the town would benefit by lynching me.

[Golden]

Yeah, Wilgy is looking pretty good right now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't want to be replaced. I want more laughs. Maybe I deserve to be lynched b/c I failed to vote for LC.

This is an MP punishment all right.

Are you enjoying yourself, occasionally poking this game thread with a thirty foot pike?

[Bullzeye]

If you all refuse to make it a thing between me and JJJ (which I think would be a win/win), I still think the town would benefit by lynching me.

If you're a civ, how can we possibly benefit from your death? If you're bad, why would you be saying such a thing? This is one of the craziest ideas I've ever seen you come out with.

[Choutas]

Stop using the word tunnel vision please. Every time you use that word the Justin Timberlake song starts playing in my head.

[a2thezebra]

As for JJJ, I'll leave it up to the rest of town to see how fake that defense is because I'm frankly tired of the back-and-forth bullshit. If you honestly think that JJJ is seeking the truth above all else (let alone more so than anyone else in the game...give me a freaking break), then by all means, follow him to the bitter end. Or, preferably, you could look at his defenses for what they really are.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Heightened Mafia emotions aside, I just want to say that this game has been incredibly fun so far. I'm stoked that we've been able to field a productive and exciting crossover and I think it'll last the long haul.

[a2thezebra]

Heightened Mafia emotions aside, I just want to say that this game has been incredibly fun so far. I'm stoked that we've been able to field a productive and exciting crossover and I think it'll last the long haul.

Seconded. As I told MP, this is by far the most fun I've ever had with a Mafia game.

I'm starting to think Epignosis wouldn't be this carelessly silent if he were in fact scum. I've been scum with him before, after all.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

As for JJJ, I'll leave it up to the rest of town to see how fake that defense is because I'm frankly tired of the back-and-forth bullshit. If you honestly think that JJJ is seeking the truth above all else (let alone more so than anyone else in the game...give me a freaking break), then by all means, follow him to the bitter end. Or, preferably, you could look at his defenses for what they really are.

It's a rare day when I say this, but: I'm going to enjoy my alignment being revealed -- whenever that happens.

[Golden]

If you all refuse to make it a thing between me and JJJ (which I think would be a win/win), I still think the town would benefit by lynching me.

If you're a civ, how can we possibly benefit from your death? If you're bad, why would you be saying such a thing? This is one of the craziest ideas I've ever seen you come out with.

And yet, it isn't even the first time I'm come out with it as a civ

@JJ - couldn't agree more! I'm loving it! I haven't been so excited for a mafia game in aaaages

[Golden]

Someone asked how I feel about Sorsha - I feel the evidence that has been produced is good, and I have absolutely no issues with the vote going that way today.

[a2thezebra]

As for JJJ, I'll leave it up to the rest of town to see how fake that defense is because I'm frankly tired of the back-and-forth bullshit. If you honestly think that JJJ is seeking the truth above all else (let alone more so than anyone else in the game...give me a freaking break), then by all means, follow him to the bitter end. Or, preferably, you could look at his defenses for what they really are.

It's a rare day when I say this, but: I'm going to enjoy my alignment being revealed -- whenever that happens.

This reminded me of this:

And I absolutely LOVE proving people wrong. So if I do get lynched today it be kinda worth it to just have my civvie role shoved right in your face.

Which reminded me of this:

Voting bcornett to hopefully maybe save myself? Any helpful friends out there?

Will your lynch by as useless as my own?

Well... it will be useful in that my game that's about to go into signups will get the attention it needs to be ready on time. But it's not going to help the Civvies win, unless some detectively types can comb through my voters (and possibly those who specifically avoided voting for me) to find the baddies there. Really, I think you're more likely to find baddies among those that were more sure that I am Civ. The baddies are the only ones who know for a fact that it's true.

Enough said.

[a2thezebra]

If you all refuse to make it a thing between me and JJJ (which I think would be a win/win), I still think the town would benefit by lynching me.

Is this reason going to be revealed anytime soon?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Enough said.

LC was all about "find the baddies in my voters!!!"

Me and Sorsha though, we're all about "check that shit, bitchesssssssssssssss"

[Sorsha]

3. Yes... It's called not being 100% sure because I wasn't. Like I just said, I've seen him do something like this, coming up with zany theories and day one plans, and get lynched as a civ.

Could you try to recall one example of this happening to a civilian LC? It'd help me a lot to believe in your mindset.

If I remembered the game I would have. I know it wasn't this site. It could have been Rev or LP.... The Piano site is gone.

4. Noncommittal on seaside because I've never played with him before, I don't know if this is how he always acts but I didn't see anything too suspicious in his behavior. I also didn't like the reasons some people were given for voting him. At the same time they knew him better than I did, but I still only think you should lynch someone if you really think they are bad.

You didn't think his earliest contributions were a little suspect (things like him calling Floyd73 a town read and Mac a rogue read)? I did. I do understand you being hesitant to commit as someone that doesn't know seaside though. I probably wouldn't be able to generate a strong stance in your position either.

Floyd probably is a town, I would imagine he'd be in here or replaced by now if he were mafia. At one point I found Mac suspicious too and like seaside, I have never played with Mac before but Mac and seaside have played with one another before. For all I know seaside was right about him and calling him out early.

5. And this would be the point, if I were his teammate, that I should have begun distancing.... not further defense. Or just kept my mouth shut. Or placed a vote on him. Pretty much anything but what I actually did.

You're right that your defense of LC was blatant. If I were LC's team mate I wouldn't have defended him there either. I think you must understand though why your defense of LC might be viewed with suspicion -- it doesn't imply that you're terrible mafia, it implies that you'd be confident in your ability to evade the trouble that followed.

However, I admit that I am not sure that's what took place. Your conduct in the face of recent pressure shows me that you don't feel good about the position you're in or your ability to stem the tide. That's an important observation so long as one can believe that you are being genuine in your defeatist frustration. I think I might believe you.

I do understand why my defense of him looks suspicious, that's why I am acting as I am. I don't fight that hard because a) I don't have all the time in the world to type up these responses and b) people are still coming in a slapping votes on so the defense doesn't seem to be helping anyway. If I get lynched at least you have my thoughts about who I think is bad. I will flip civ.

6. Like I said, didn't think it would matter and figured it would just get torn apart anyway. I'm not the kind of player who goes head to head with others too much like golden and jjj and others have been doing the past day. i just roll over and die In the past it hasn't worked well for me and hasn't been worth the effort

I think your content reflects this statement at least. It did indeed get torn apart, and you did indeed begin to seemingly roll over and die, at least until I opened the door for you to respond rationally.

Still hasn't been worth the effort.

[Choutas]

As for JJJ, I'll leave it up to the rest of town to see how fake that defense is because I'm frankly tired of the back-and-forth bullshit. If you honestly think that JJJ is seeking the truth above all else (let alone more so than anyone else in the game...give me a freaking break), then by all means, follow him to the bitter end. Or, preferably, you could look at his defenses for what they really are.

It's a rare day when I say this, but: I'm going to enjoy my alignment being revealed -- whenever that happens.

This reminded me of this:

And I absolutely LOVE proving people wrong. So if I do get lynched today it be kinda worth it to just have my civvie role shoved right in your face.

Which reminded me of this:

Voting bcornett to hopefully maybe save myself? Any helpful friends out there?

Will your lynch by as useless as my own?

Well... it will be useful in that my game that's about to go into signups will get the attention it needs to be ready on time. But it's not going to help the Civvies win, unless some detectively types can comb through my voters (and possibly those who specifically avoided voting for me) to find the baddies there. Really, I think you're more likely to find baddies among those that were more sure that I am Civ. The baddies are the only ones who know for a fact that it's true.

Enough said.

I get what you mean. Frankly I've seen it happen a million times. Of course this is the first time I'm playing with around the 75% of all players but everyone tries the "all in" move that is filled with histrionics. I might change my vote to Sorsha if another player starts piling votes.

[a2thezebra]

Enough said.

LC was all about "find the baddies in my voters!!!"

Me and Sorsha though, we're all about "check that shit, bitchesssssssssssssss"

And you're still voting for Sorsha, so is this even trying to be a defense?

[Sorsha]

Someone asked how I feel about Sorsha - I feel the evidence that has been produced is good, and I have absolutely no issues with the vote going that way today.

Did you even read my responses?

[Draconus]

Yup. Sorsha. That's about the only suspicion I agree with completely, atm.

Should I take this mean to that you have other suspicions that are unpopular? And if so, what are they?

Not really. "Unpopular" isn't the best word to use here. I have a couple of suspicions that I'm far less confident about. Diiny I'm only slightly confident about. And Epi, I can't see him being one to defend a teammate. But he could have been pretty confident that he could save LC with those defenses. Also, he may have figured that he would blend in with the other people defending LC. IDK. Speculation. I still need to think on this. Other than that I have no strong reads.

Devin- Until today hadn’t contributed much. The rainbow list I started yesterday I had “Leaning bad on Devin. He’s keeping up with the thread and posting answers to game mechanics and various questions but little in the way of suspicions except for Diiny.” Today he has defended Epi so that doesn’t look good to me either.

Sure you did. And now I'm really bad because I voted for you right?


Extreme Linkitis. Can I post now???????

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Enough said.

LC was all about "find the baddies in my voters!!!"

Me and Sorsha though, we're all about "check that shit, bitchesssssssssssssss"

And you're still voting for Sorsha, so is this even trying to be a defense?

It's definitely not a defense. I think we've exhausted this conversation. You still don't believe me, fine whatever. Nobody can tell me I didn't try my best to make my case.

I'm just having fun in that post.