[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Ricochet]

Well, after BR added another vote to Devin (I understand her personal need to call it a Day, unfortunately her only other mention of Devin was voting him Day 4, for reasons that weren't more revelatory back then, compared to now...), the lynch is likely going nowhere, unless votes come off Devin.

I partially still can see this as Devin pursuing a twist. A careful "fuk dis", a self vote and waiting to see if miracles exist...

Has Devin had enough of it, near lynch, more as a civ or as a baddie facing imminency? My meta recollection of him is very weak, this may in fact be overall his most active game I'm played together with.

Not sure what Russ tried to mention with the Bioshock reference, considering that he said Devin was SK?! What kind of alliance was that? How can you have a long term, civ-inclined, alliance with an SK? How can his alignment back then be indicative of his civvieness here?

[Diiny]

i hope golden gets a chance to post as much content as possible before night is out. just, you know, in case

Is this the wifom I think it is?

[Diiny]

I'm thinking very hard about whether this is something scum dev would do. I have precedent on both sides, but I think the rule-breaking nature of dev's actions are going to give me enough pause to take the vote off. Like, a legal gambit is one thing but this is arguably closer to flipping your own card or some other kind of grandiose suicide that I don't associate with scum in my experience.

[Epignosis]

Not sure what Russ tried to mention with the Bioshock reference, considering that he said Devin was SK?! What kind of alliance was that? How can you have a long term, civ-inclined, alliance with an SK? How can his alignment back then be indicative of his civvieness here?

It's complicated. I was Mafia that got recruited by a civilian, betrayed my entire team, with all of them but one dying in one Night, my civilian master turned last man standing, and then I got recruited by somebody else.

Good times.

[Tangrowth]

Not sure what Russ tried to mention with the Bioshock reference, considering that he said Devin was SK?! What kind of alliance was that? How can you have a long term, civ-inclined, alliance with an SK? How can his alignment back then be indicative of his civvieness here?

It's complicated. I was Mafia that got recruited by a civilian, betrayed my entire team, with all of them but one dying in one Night, my civilian master turned last man standing, and then I got recruited by somebody else.

Good times.

[Epignosis]

Not sure what Russ tried to mention with the Bioshock reference, considering that he said Devin was SK?! What kind of alliance was that? How can you have a long term, civ-inclined, alliance with an SK? How can his alignment back then be indicative of his civvieness here?

It's complicated. I was Mafia that got recruited by a civilian, betrayed my entire team, with all of them but one dying in one Night, my civilian master turned last man standing, and then I got recruited by somebody else.

Good times.

Also, I was drunk and told my team I had been recruited, but, realizing my mistake, I made up this whole narrative on how I would return to the team at a certain phase.

Yep, good times.

[Ricochet]

Not sure what Russ tried to mention with the Bioshock reference, considering that he said Devin was SK?! What kind of alliance was that? How can you have a long term, civ-inclined, alliance with an SK? How can his alignment back then be indicative of his civvieness here?

It's complicated. I was Mafia that got recruited by a civilian, betrayed my entire team, with all of them but one dying in one Night, my civilian master turned last man standing, and then I got recruited by somebody else.

Good times.

Ughh. Who on earth created such a game?

Oh.

[MacDougall]

Tell me what town cooperating looks like.

Transparency about all reads, playing with one's hand revealed to the thread, willingness to work alongside people who are not one's suspects despite the back-of-mind worry about being duped.

I raised an important question about Sorsha four times the day she got lynched and I think I got one response.

I think a large number of people aren't reading the thread.

I would agree with this. I've seen quite a few examples of players posting without correctly reading or possibly not even having read the thread. It's quite frustrating.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm thinking very hard about whether this is something scum dev would do. I have precedent on both sides, but I think the rule-breaking nature of dev's actions are going to give me enough pause to take the vote off. Like, a legal gambit is one thing but this is arguably closer to flipping your own card or some other kind of grandiose suicide that I don't associate with scum in my experience.

Maybe more of an El Manimal than a Haterade.

[Tangrowth]

Not sure what Russ tried to mention with the Bioshock reference, considering that he said Devin was SK?! What kind of alliance was that? How can you have a long term, civ-inclined, alliance with an SK? How can his alignment back then be indicative of his civvieness here?

It's complicated. I was Mafia that got recruited by a civilian, betrayed my entire team, with all of them but one dying in one Night, my civilian master turned last man standing, and then I got recruited by somebody else.

Good times.

Also, I was drunk and told my team I had been recruited, but, realizing my mistake, I made up this whole narrative on how I would return to the team at a certain phase.

Yep, good times.

That was the best; I can't believe they bought it.

[Draconus]

Did I mention that I need a replacement?

Look, this cannot happen. Replacements aren't coming.

We've already had to modkill rundontwalk and there may be others to follow. I beg that people do not voluntarily throw in the towel this game, regardless of alignment or RL circumstances, unless they absolutely feel they have to. In doing so, the balance of the game will not be upheld. I do not want to have to modkill more players if I don't have to.

I'm less busy than I was when the game started, irl. I know you're out of replacements

[Marmot]

Jay! what do you think of Devin's previous vote for espers and this point I raised?

How does Devin's later self-vote, after voting for Bullzeye for meta, sit with you?

I ask because you said you read Devin's reactions today as genuine, but you said that before these posts.

[Ricochet]

Devin, sup. Why do you want to die?

[Diiny]

Did I mention that I need a replacement?

Look, this cannot happen. Replacements aren't coming.

We've already had to modkill rundontwalk and there may be others to follow. I beg that people do not voluntarily throw in the towel this game, regardless of alignment or RL circumstances, unless they absolutely feel they have to. In doing so, the balance of the game will not be upheld. I do not want to have to modkill more players if I don't have to.

I'm less busy than I was when the game started, irl. I know you're out of replacements

Sticking around to see how your gambit's working?

[MacDougall]

Epi, can you please link me to a few games you had a lot of posts in?

I gave some of these to FZ. earlier. Let me see if I can find the post...

Here is the relevant snippet, with links embedded:

WWE: Loud and in charge and a civilian loser. (410 posts)
Death Note: Loud and rational and a civilian loser. (663 posts)

Someone once told me I should try being quiet and listen. I've gone that route a few times and I won my first full game ever as a civilian. Frisky Dingo, with 338 posts.

Thank you for this. I will note that here you have the exact same concerns about serial killer's so there is no inconsistency with your stance on them. You do/did have more content surrounding the serial killer here than in any of those three games though.

Doesn't do much to persuade/dissuade, but your being forthcoming does bode well for you, especially in light of the fact that if I were interested in tunneling you I could have probably done so with these links.

[Ricochet]

Jay! what do you think of Devin's previous vote for espers and this point I raised?

His reply to that was sort of "there must be something to it, huh", but can't tell if it was flippant or a hint of some sort.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay! what do you think of Devin's previous vote for espers and this point I raised?

How does Devin's later self-vote, after voting for Bullzeye for meta, sit with you?

I ask because you said you read Devin's reactions today as genuine, but you said that before these posts.

I can understand why you'd perceive his stance on espers to be inconsistent. It does appear though that he had no opinion on espers until other people (I think me) raised a case against him which Devin took up with. He was quite vague about that granted.

I think his self-vote looks more town than scum, but it's the kind of thing that one can only guess at. I think annoyed townies are more likely to blatantly break the rules than devious scum.

[Marmot]

Jay! what do you think of Devin's previous vote for espers and this point I raised?

His reply to that was sort of "there must be something to it, huh", but can't tell if it was flippant or a hint of some sort.

Good point.

But if there was something more to it (and if I understand what you're saying), I don't think Devin would have left espers as second on his want-to-lynch list as opposed to moving him to the top.

[Marmot]

Jay! what do you think of Devin's previous vote for espers and this point I raised?

How does Devin's later self-vote, after voting for Bullzeye for meta, sit with you?

I ask because you said you read Devin's reactions today as genuine, but you said that before these posts.

I can understand why you'd perceive his stance on espers to be inconsistent. It does appear though that he had no opinion on espers until other people (I think me) raised a case against him which Devin took up with. He was quite vague about that granted.

I think his self-vote looks more town than scum, but it's the kind of thing that one can only guess at. I think annoyed townies are more likely to blatantly break the rules than devious scum.

I don't think it was a blatant disregard for the rules. That has never been a rule in a game on this site that I have seen before.

Then again, I don't think that impacts your point one way or the other.

[Marmot]

But to counter your point Jay, your mafia-partner in TSM, Ricochet, self-voted the day he was lynched.

[Ricochet]

Going back to that page also reminded me just now that Wilgy again posted some cool graphs and stats, after which he apparently took off for the Day.

[MacDougall]

Did I mention that I need a replacement?

Look, this cannot happen. Replacements aren't coming.

We've already had to modkill rundontwalk and there may be others to follow. I beg that people do not voluntarily throw in the towel this game, regardless of alignment or RL circumstances, unless they absolutely feel they have to. In doing so, the balance of the game will not be upheld. I do not want to have to modkill more players if I don't have to.

I'm less busy than I was when the game started, irl. I know you're out of replacements

Are you doing that thing where you are just not defending yourself in the hope that town will view your apathy as a town read? Because I don't find that a very townie way of defending yourself.

linki: Does Wilgy just post graphs and stats in every game. I can think of three different effort posts he's made in this game alone but he's not done much with the content he's created on any of the three of them. Just drops it in the thread like a smoke bomb and pisses off.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

But to counter your point Jay, your mafia-partner in TSM, Ricochet, self-voted the day he was lynched.

It's primarily the fact that it's breaking a rule that makes me feel this way, not so much that it was a self-vote. I think MP has been clear all game long that self-voting is not permitted so I am quite certain Devin was well-aware.

If he did break a rule as a part of a baddie strategy he is employing, then I think he did something well outside the spirit of the game. Intentionally breaking a rule to progress any strategy is gross.

[Ricochet]

But to counter your point Jay, your mafia-partner in TSM, Ricochet, self-voted the day he was lynched.

Yeah, but in an utter no-escape-let's-get-it-over-with situation (what I did was, in fact, to push myself into majority lynch). I would never, otherwise, concede if there would be at least a tiny drop of hope left.

linki: but JJJ, if he dies, the breaking of the rule is of secondary relevancy. It's still a defeatist move, primarily.

[MacDougall]

But to counter your point Jay, your mafia-partner in TSM, Ricochet, self-voted the day he was lynched.

It's primarily the fact that it's breaking a rule that makes me feel this way, not so much that it was a self-vote. I think MP has been clear all game long that self-voting is not permitted so I am quite certain Devin was well-aware.

If he did break a rule as a part of a baddie strategy he is employing, then I think he did something well outside the spirit of the game. Intentionally breaking a rule to progress any strategy is gross.

Well he could be doing that either way really. Self voting to promote an IDGAF read to people as a townie or a scum. It's a wifom argument really.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

linki: but JJJ, if he dies, the breaking of the rule is of secondary relevancy. It's still a defeatist move, primarily.

Could be. It's hard for me to understand either way really, I don't think I have ever self-voted short of being silenced and using that to alert the thread.

[Ricochet]

Epignosis, can you elaborate more on espers, besides "eww", perhaps? You've had him as baddie in your game, how do you see him behaving compared to that in this one?

[MacDougall]

Isn't it strange that nobody from motel room down has a vote on them? Almost like players started doing reads alphabetically and got hung up on what they saw from players early in the list and have given a pass to those at the bottom.

Upside down ISO analysis incoming.

[Marmot]

But to counter your point Jay, your mafia-partner in TSM, Ricochet, self-voted the day he was lynched.

It's primarily the fact that it's breaking a rule that makes me feel this way, not so much that it was a self-vote. I think MP has been clear all game long that self-voting is not permitted so I am quite certain Devin was well-aware.

If he did break a rule as a part of a baddie strategy he is employing, then I think he did something well outside the spirit of the game. Intentionally breaking a rule to progress any strategy is gross.

MP punished one player on Day 2 for self-voting. Not quite the same, since that was the only time he has brought that rule up.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Isn't it strange that nobody from motel room down has a vote on them? Almost like players started doing reads alphabetically and got hung up on what they saw from players early in the list and have given a pass to those at the bottom.

Upside down ISO analysis incoming.

Good idea. I'm going to look into Roxy/splints/BR in the night phase.

[Marmot]

Isn't it strange that nobody from motel room down has a vote on them? Almost like players started doing reads alphabetically and got hung up on what they saw from players early in the list and have given a pass to those at the bottom.

Upside down ISO analysis incoming.

I brought this up like 13 hours ago dude.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Devin knew it was against the rules:

Anyways, I have to go shortly, so let me help with this. VOTES FUCK THE MAN!!!!

Whether that indicates town or scum for him I couldn't say with conviction, but he definitely knew.

[Marmot]

Devin knew it was against the rules:

Anyways, I have to go shortly, so let me help with this. VOTES FUCK THE MAN!!!!

Whether that indicates town or scum for him I couldn't say with conviction, but he definitely knew.

Oh, that's what that meant.

[MacDougall]

Isn't it strange that nobody from motel room down has a vote on them? Almost like players started doing reads alphabetically and got hung up on what they saw from players early in the list and have given a pass to those at the bottom.

Upside down ISO analysis incoming.

I brought this up like 13 hours ago dude.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, can you elaborate more on espers, besides "eww", perhaps? You've had him as baddie in your game, how do you see him behaving compared to that in this one?

Bussed a teammate Day 1, got replaced by ika Day 4. Not much there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm about to make some midnight spaghetti. What tomato sauce should I go with?

~ tomato and basil
~ chunky vegetable
~ chargrilled vegetable
~ red chili pepper

[MacDougall]

I'm about to make some midnight spaghetti. What tomato sauce should I go with?

~ tomato and basil
~ chunky vegetable
~ chargrilled vegetable
~ red chili pepper

Something mushroom something something.

[Marmot]

I'm about to make some midnight spaghetti. What tomato sauce should I go with?

~ tomato and basil
~ chunky vegetable
~ chargrilled vegetable
~ red chili pepper

Lynching mafia > Tomato sauce

Get yo' head in the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm about to make some midnight spaghetti. What tomato sauce should I go with?

~ tomato and basil
~ chunky vegetable
~ chargrilled vegetable
~ red chili pepper

Something mushroom something something.

Mushrooms rule, but I don't think I have that. I'll check.

[S~V~S]

Tomato basil for the win. That was my Sicilian Grandmas go to.

[Ricochet]

I made myself a tabouleh salad today.

[Marmot]

Temporary vote going to espers while I read him and ISO him.

I had a falafel sandwich with tabbouleh today

[Ricochet]

Epignosis, can you elaborate more on espers, besides "eww", perhaps? You've had him as baddie in your game, how do you see him behaving compared to that in this one?

Bussed a teammate Day 1, got replaced by ika Day 4. Not much there.

I remember that replacement, heh. ika just came in, showed everyone the middle finger and got what he was after.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Diiny, have you come to a decision on the matter of Devin versus espers?

[Draconus]

My alignment? Who cares? My intentions? I want death.
I'll help the thread one last time. Right now there are 6 votes being wasted. Do with them what you will. But remember that I am guaranteed death now.

[Ricochet]

Devin, how will your death, if civvie, helps us out? Also, if you won't do anything about it, how can we do, with this much lead that you have right now? Why do you say you're "guaranteed" death - although I'll agree that the majority of your voters might not even return in the thread anymore.

[Draconus]

It should be obvious. If I have to throw another rule in MP's face, I will. But I will say that maybe you should look at the voters who refuse to move.

[Diiny]

Diiny, have you come to a decision on the matter of Devin versus espers?

Devin raises a decent point: if he's dying a lynch is wasted. I think the espers case has some merit, what with his spooky golden post, pretty quick sorsha wagon hop and strange reasoning (thanks for explaining that btw, don't know why it didn't click for me) and I'll give him a vote to stop a wasted lynch. I'll be an angry spartan pea today.


If I could decide the lynch I'd probably go for wilgy, tbh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My alignment? Who cares? My intentions? I want death.
I'll help the thread one last time. Right now there are 6 votes being wasted. Do with them what you will. But remember that I am guaranteed death now.

I care immensely about your alignment, and no matter what your alignment is killing yourself is a detriment to your team -- to people who are trying to win.

[Diiny]

Actually, I can't go to sleep without confirming that dev will die regardless of the lynch result. Do we know this for sure?