[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

#4951

RadicalFuzz wrote:Matt you're saying that motel is bad for pushing Strawhenge to save Mac but then turning around and saying they're both scum. If they're both scum why would they risk that open conversation if Strawhenge wasn't going to change his vote regardless?

Why would Long Con and MacDougall have an open conversation about Long Con's role? Why would MacDougall be the first to push Long Con hard on his Bea gambit?

Distancing.

I may be wrong on Straw/Motel Room being teamies, but I feel fairly confident that motel room is a baddie.

#4952

Glad we got a baddie!

Things are looking good. I still need to get properly caught up, gonna consider what's next as well.

#4953

Matt, that's a cool ISO, but I think it's a little dry on motel's D2 votes interpretation. Yes it's switchy voting (LC -> Choutas -> LC again), but the timing about the second LC vote should be scrutinized. Even he acknowledged that he returned to LC, when LC was falling behind compared to b24's and llama's wagons (which I think checks out, although not sure if I have the stats 100% correct in my spreadsheet), and with his vote the final wave to lynch LC formed. What is your angle on this aspect?

For me it creates a small bit of conflict between the notion that motel bussed LC to look consistent after hounding him and the one that motel would have done an overkill move on LC as his teammate, when he could have stayed put on Choutas with a vote and maybe the other wagons would have prevailed (we know b24 wagon is nearly scum-free, except for LC, so they could have capitalized there instead).

It makes me doubt a litte, won't lie. Otherwise motel from LC angle looks like a busser and some of his actions yesterday (especially that "alrighty, jjj, I'll vote wherever you say [Black Rock]" moment) are even worse.

I need to superimpose the LC angle with the MC angle.

#4954

bcornett24 wrote:Why are we back to sorsha, or is this just part of the quote and you randomly asked me if i was bad after?

No I'm not bad are you?

I am not. Why did it take you so long to respond even though I was listed as a sketchy sketch on your rainbow list?

What are your thoughts on what Fuzz said about me?

#4955

Ricochet wrote:Matt, that's a cool ISO, but I think it's a little dry on motel's D2 votes interpretation. Yes it's switchy voting (LC -> Choutas -> LC again), but the timing about the second LC vote should be scrutinized. Even he acknowledged that he returned to LC, when LC was falling behind compared to b24's and llama's wagons (which I think checks out, although not sure if I have the stats 100% correct in my spreadsheet), and with his vote the final wave to lynch LC formed. What is your angle on this aspect?

I don't have the ever evolving switch votes from that day, but from the final tally...

Nobody has more then two votes when Motel Room switches back. Let's also consider that Motel Room says he was the first to vote for Long Con that day, then he switches it, and then FOUR players vote for Long Con, and he switches back. I think it's entirely possible he wanted to get back on Long Con before it was way too late, and then people could be like "Well you switched back to Long Con kinda later there, fella". I dunno, just spitballing here. I believe I am starting to tunnel the hell out of motel room, however, his weird "slip up" comment towards Strawhenge doesn't make me feel good, his light defense and light prodding of baddie Floyd doesn't make me feel good, and his "MacD is town no matter how many theories I have to squash" does not make me feel good.

#4956

Anywho, I've been wrong the entire game (even on Mac...he was bad but I was wrong why), so maybe some other players wanna play?

Roxy, splints, blackrock, what's up how ya doing? Share your thoughts whenever ya all come back?

What does everyone think of Russ making ANOTHER late late late vote on a baddie?

#4957

"Nobody has more then two votes when Motel Room switches back".

Really?

Are you judging by the final tally or do you have a stat for that day with how votes move. I'm pretty sure LC, b24 and Llama were tied or closed to.

Splints asked for modkill. I don't why, but I have the feeling Roxy and BR might drive themselves towards a modkill, just by not posting. Although I seriously hope all three reconsider.

They hosted me through my previous two games, so all my love to them.

#4958

with how votes moved*

I don't know* why

#4959

Ricochet wrote:"Nobody has more then two votes when Motel Room switches back".

Really? Are you judging by the final tally or do you have a stat for that day with how votes move. I'm pretty sure LC, b24 and Llama were tied or closed to.

Splints asked for modkill. I don't why, but I have the feeling Roxy and BR might drive themselves towards a modkill, just by not posting. Although I seriously hope all three reconsider. They hosted me through my previous two games, so all my love to them.

Judging by final tally.

And I hope you're wrong. I'd like to hear their input, even if it's to rip my theories to shreds.

#4960

I'm at work so I don't have time to answer all these accusations yet. I've been thinking about it though. I want to do what is best for town, and if I am to be lynched this phase then I might be more useful as a scumhunter than a self-defender. I acknowledge that there is compelling evidence against me, and it will be difficult to convey my innocence without WIFOM.

At least I can leave a legacy behind that might be helpful (as long as my interpretations are better than last time). I won't have time to do a lot of both, and I worry it'd be a distraction anyway. I'll mull it over.

I've genuinely never been in this position before, so I'm working it out in my head. I've been lynched as a townie twice ever, once as a noob and once on Day 1. This is unfamiliar territory.

#4961

I'd suggest you focus on scumhunting and only respond to major points. Logical scumhunting could not only dissuade us from lynching you for minor reasons, but in the case that you're town it is information that would be very useful.

#4962

via Imgflip Meme Maker

#4963

bcornett24 wrote:
Diiny wrote:
bcornett24 wrote:Diiny how is it going?
nae bad. had a nice day. going to see The Martian soon

Tasks 4 u:

Tell me how you feel about JJJ, who was your previous suspect, in light of recent events.

Tell me why you think I'm scum
I think that there is a good chance that the previous ?????? Is Jay. If he is town he will be killed off shortly due to the sheer amount of content and analysis that he has done. That with his ability to influence how people vote makes him a huge threat to scum. It also makes me extremely wary of Jay at all times. I voted for him the previous day in hopes to get a response but i didn't manage to make it back to the thread to post more stuff. Metal said he pushed for my Lynch all Sunday.

Mac and Devin were my previous suspects, i unfortunately never made it around to doing an iso before he was lynched but we had argued for almost two days with me accusing him off being scum.

Devin had contradicted himself several times and didn't want to defend himself which i felt was scummy. So him I also completed a huge iso of all his posts showing this.

Hmm I just voted for you to see what you had to say, I have not had the chance to go back and check your content. I did have you marked as scum about 4 days ago, but as I had said those were gut reads except for the several I did an iso for. So to me this seems like you are looking at yourself from a scummy perspective.

Have fun at your movie!

Not sure I understand why asking why you voted for me when you come out of the blue and change top suspects with no stated reasoning makes you think I'm looking at myself through a scummy perspective

You gave a really general point about j just now, talking about him as a player rather than in this game. What do you think of him right now, in this game, given not just the shit that just went down but his performance all game?

#4964

Diiny wrote:
bcornett24 wrote: The first post where you say that you are not sure what I'm saying, in which I said, "interesting proposition" i was referring to the comment about how much time you had put into the game while on vacation in Sweden. The word proposition was poorly chosen on my part I was simply commenting on your continued posting.
Yeah, you commented with genuine interest about a joke theory that J was scum because he was posting despite being on holiday iirc. Do you see why that's bad.

Also brian this pls

#4965

CHOUTAS, you suspected Mac for a decent while. Then he became a tip top town read. Why?

#4966

Matt F wrote: What does everyone think of Russ making ANOTHER late late late vote on a baddie?

I need to know if this decided the lynch or if it was just piled on

#4967

Diiny wrote:
Matt F wrote: What does everyone think of Russ making ANOTHER late late late vote on a baddie?
I need to know if this decided the lynch or if it was just piled on

Russ' D2 vote kept LC at enough distance from b24, so that LC could only tie himself up with b24 using his triple vote.

Russ' D6 vote sent Mac to 7 votes, which was enough in the end against the 6-vote wagon on Diiny (manipulation-free, I guess). I think 3 votes on Diiny followed after Russ' 7th on Mac, complete with the Strawhenge "melodrama".

#4968

I'm going to make a confession before tuning out for a couple of hours to watch a movie: I feel half burned-out at this stage. At least today, despite (accidentally) sleeping more than usual and barely leaving the house to jog, I've felt more tired than on Monday.

Tomorrow's deadline will be impossible for me, because I have classes early in the morning on Thursday, as usual, so I'll have to vote earlier. Which won't be convenient either, since I'll be busy in the evening, but I'll do what I can, when I can.

Bottom line, I'll try to resume the reads, from the angles I've outlined already (aka look for distancers and bussers, or the BOTDers; third angle for me is the neutrals who kept real mum about LC's whole shenanigans during D1-D2 and/or who haven't been mentioned by LC once), but I doubt they will be in any way comprehensive and exhaustive. Only exhausting.

Alright then, later. Give me time to work it out.

#4969

Diiny wrote:CHOUTAS, you suspected Mac for a decent while. Then he became a tip top town read. Why?

Hmmm when did I do that exactly. People found his playing odd. I provided theories over his playing the whole game. He was a townie read until he flipped town :/

#4970

*yawn*

I've been reading over a few of my top suspects, and my mind is boggled.

Going to take a break for awhile. I feel like switching back to Floyd even though motel seems bad. Floyd why did you vote for 3J?

#4971

First sorry Choutas for calling you the wrong name it was completely by accident. Looking at how Mac flipped I am revising my opinion on Diiny I am know thinking in light of Mac's flip Diiny is clean.

I still think Choutas is scum and he should be lynched, especially after his posts defending Mac. However, I could also very easily see JJJ being scum, especially after he switched from Black rock to Diiny.

This flip also makes Epi and Rico look much better to me, I am reading both as solid town.

I'm going to reread yesterday, but for the time I won't be casting my vote.

#4972

This is going to suck more then me playing Mafia, but I'm going to ISO 3J now...

#4973

659 posts by 3J

#4974

Matt F wrote:This is going to suck more then me playing Mafia, but I'm going to ISO 3J now...

#4975

Diiny wrote:Sig on Mac:

Mac I can see the arguments against him, but with the current trend of mislynching I'm unsure about him and need to think on it some.

Non-stance o-rama, and the mislynching thing doesn't even make sense to me

Well what I meant was with how all of my votes after LC were mislynches I didn't want to vote for someone I was unsure of. I only had a little amount of time yesterday and placed my vote on you instead. I don't regret it since a scum still got lynched and out of those who voted for you later at least one or two are mafia.

These players ended the day with their votes not on one of the leading wagon, I'm thinking there is at least one scum quite possibly more in this group.

Bullzeye I find his vote to be suspicious, first off I think bcornett24 is clean and his last post pinged me.

Bullzeye wrote:Glad we got a baddie! Things are looking good. I still need to get properly caught up, gonna consider what's next as well.

This to me at least seems like a scums way to comment on the lynch which they didn't take part in and appear to be civvie. Thoughts on this?

RadicalFuzz You've been consistent with your view on Wilgy and have continued to vote for him based around it. While I'm unsure about Wilgy you've remained consistent with your votes.

bcornett24 ended his vote on JJJ saying he is behind and JJJ appears as scum. I already lean civ on him and am leaning mafia on JJJ, this wasn't done in an attempt to avoid the major lynches. However, I find it interesting your know lynching Diiny who was the other main lynch for yesterday why are you doing this?

TheFloyd73 He ended his vote on Matt F, not much commenting why he voted this way, he did switch from Mac to Matt which isn't looking good imo.

Strawhenge Could you provided some reasoning for your vote on MM, why don't you trust him?

fingersplints Her vote is self explanatory.

It isn't much but, out of just this information I think Floyd and Bullzeye are the two most likely to be mafia. If JJJ is lynched and flips civ I would be more likely to think Bulls is clean and bcornett is scum, but I doubt that will happen. For Fuzz they've been consistent with their pursuit of Wilgy and I'm reading Fuzz as being genuine. I'm just not sure if they are right.

#4976

I'd be happy with a lynch of JJJ or floyd today.

#4977

For those who like colors, five people who lynched Long Con are the same as those who attempted to save MacDougall. Only two people voted for both. Knowing that Long Con's team was not trying to save him Day 2, I want to explore which of these five persons were the most eager to cast others in a good light, and how genuine they sound in their efforts.

Epignosis wrote:Long Con
8
Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35) 21%

++++

Diiny
6
sig (22), seaside (23), MacDougall (24), motel room (26), Choutas (27), JaggedJimmyJay (28)
21%

MacDougall
7
DrWilgy (4), Ricochet (10), Metalmarsh89 (11), Epignosis (15), Matt F (18), Elohcin (21), Russtifinko (25)
24%

#4978

Hmm, if he stays with his vote there, this will basically be TheFloyd's first "focused" vote in the entire game, by which I mean his first vote on a important/top candidate, rather than on a person whose lynch never went anywhere (Straw, Ace, Bea, Elo, Matt D5-6).

#4979

Epignosis wrote:For those who like colors, five people who lynched Long Con are the same as those who attempted to save MacDougall. Only two people voted for both. Knowing that Long Con's team was not trying to save him Day 2, I want to explore which of these five persons were the most eager to cast others in a good light, and how genuine they sound in their efforts.

Epignosis wrote:Long Con
8
Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35) 21%

++++

Diiny
6
sig (22), seaside (23), MacDougall (24), motel room (26), Choutas (27), JaggedJimmyJay (28)
21%

MacDougall
7
DrWilgy (4), Ricochet (10), Metalmarsh89 (11), Epignosis (15), Matt F (18), Elohcin (21), Russtifinko (25)
24%

I have one gut read and two reads I've explored already, at least concerning interactions with LC.

My gut read is that Choutas made early votes most of the times until Day 5, and the first two of them were on confirmed mafia. D3 he started early with a bogus vote on me (I say bogus more because his only reason was "Rico talks about SK, that's scum"), then returned and moved on a Sorsha wagon that, at that time, was huge. On D5 he voted midway and on D6 he was among the late Diiny voters, complete with save MacDougall slogans.

Regarding sig and motel, I think everyone should try to address in their own views what their interactions with LC look like.

#4980

Choutas wrote:
Diiny wrote:CHOUTAS, you suspected Mac for a decent while. Then he became a tip top town read. Why?
Hmmm when did I do that exactly. People found his playing odd. I provided theories over his playing the whole game. He was a townie read until he flipped town :/

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 82#p186682

Remember this?

#4981

I have a million pages to catch up on... will post after I have read some more.

#4982

Elohcin wrote:I'd be happy with a lynch of JJJ or floyd today.

Interesting that out of these two you choose the one with the more populous bandwagon to actually place your vote for; do you prefer a JJJ lynch?

#4983

Sig, have you flippy flopped on me purely by virtue of the proceedings of yesterday's tally? I feel like it really didn't take much for a reversal of a scum read

#4984

Yes I don't think the mafia team would have bandwagoned you to save Mac if you were both mafia. On your wagon is both JJJ and Choutas both of whom I think are mafia. It was enough for me to switch my opinion know if JJJ and Choutas were to flip civ I would flip flop again, but I think they are both mafia.

#4985

Matt F wrote:Switching my vote to motel room for now.

For those of you who don't like to ISO players yourselves, here's some fun times with motel room lovin' him some MacDougall.

motel room wrote:well ok i voted Mac and Dr Wilgy cos whatever I guess
^---Dusk 0 Vote

motel room wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
motel room wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about this MacDougal character.
Seems genuine to me so far. What about him makes you feel otherwise?
His overall hostility requires evaluation. I'm not sure I think he's malevolent, but he's someone I definitely want to watch.
I hope a bit of friendly hostility isn't an alignment indicator over here.
Okey dokey

motel room wrote:Matt F's theory is sketchy and I don't why he's so confident about it.

Mac's theory on epi seems more likely and more based in evidence...

>SNIP<

Mac himself has mostly seemed towny to me, up until he jumped off his Sorsha wagon and started pursuing Matt F over what started as a mild ping or whatever he called it. After that it seemed like mac was in chaos mode and was less about "who is scum" and more about "what can I get away with". But I say "was" because I like how he responded to Matt F's accusation - I read some others are using this as evidence against but I see it as positive evidence.
My theory was sketchy (to be fair, it was) but I'm more interested in "Mac's maybe bad but no but maybe and oh yeah a few days later I will do my damndest to get Strawhenge to save Mac and then say I was trying to get him to slip up" ?!?!

This is going to be me defending myself but basically I'm being as transparent as I can in the post I wrote. I thought Mac was town and the only point where I doubted that was when he switched off the Sorsha wagon he was fighting for to jump on you which didnt feel genuine. But then the way he responded made comfortable again that he was just being fiery rather than seeing what he could get away with. I was wrong.

Matt F wrote:
motel room wrote:So reading all of this about how Long Con set up this big ol bus seems so far fetched to me. Remembering back to the day he was lynched, he was a contender but not the contender. I'm fairly sure that my return vote on him put him back in the lead and I know I did that from a genuine suspicion of him so I can't really get behind any of these "strategy" scenarios. He may have wanted out and told teammates not to fight it too hard but I really doubt it was a planned bus. My two cents, for the guy who is pretty sure Mac is scum cos of that idea. I still think mac is town.
Second theory in a row that makes Mac look bad that Motel Room says "NOPE NOT HAVIN' IT"

Towards the end of the Day Phase, Motel Room and 3J try their hardest to get Strawhenge to change his vote to save Mac. Later after lynch says he was tryinig to get Strawhenge to "slip up". Bogus. Bogus bogus bogus.

Yes I defended Mac again, and yes I was pressuring Straw to see what he'd do but I dont see how they're related here?

Matt F wrote:Day 2 Lynch Phase (Long Con Lynch)

motel room wrote:in fact yep Long Con for now

motel room wrote:
FZ. wrote:How is it, that not one regular syndicater voted for LC? How is it, that none of the Rym players don't take that into consideration? Are we missing something here?
I think he's suss but that translated into a vote from me because he kept being mentioned as suss back on day 1 but he was never a lynch contender, which is a thing that I feel scum can then point back at their posts and say "i thought he was suss, see". Anyway I had a vote on him for a good portion of today and he hasn't flinched or questioned it or brought it up, not sure what that says. And now he's lead lynchguy, there's even an unexplained vote from Choutas on him (or well, I havent seen him mention his vote in thread).

So like, I dunno are we missing something here?
At this point, has a conversation with Epi about the Long Con lynch. Epi doesn't want to lynch Long Con, motel room asks why, Epi explains, motel room does this...

motel room wrote:Alright, switching to Choutas, hi
What's hilarious about this, is after the lynch period is over, motel room immediately sets his sights on Sorsha (a civilian) and Epignosis...even though he was quite easily swayed by Epignosis to change his vote. motel room just comes off real bad here IMO. But no matter, eventually when people aren't feeling the Choutas lynch, motel room does this before Day 2 ends...

I was swayed by the amount of vouching for Long Con that was coming from the Syndicate camp. It wasn't just Epignosis. It was the reverse of what just happened with RYMers and Mac. So later, I guess the hilarious part?, I was ok with a Sorsha lynch because it was generated by ppl I kinda trusted, and Epi was my own read still. This was after like 3 real life days of not being online also bear in mind.

Matt F wrote:
motel room wrote:getting back on Long Con for now. Not feeling the bcornett lynch, i believed his post just then I guess. Llama, yeah maybe.
Well, at least he got his vote back on Long Con and can look civvie for it.

I liked him better of the options and figured what the hey to the people vouching for him.

Matt F wrote:Miscellaneous

motel room wrote:
Sorsha wrote:For the sake of putting the "Where did they get that Zebra=keterman" questions to rest, this is the post where Zebra acknowledges his previous names on other sites.... its down in the green text by the coffee cup emoticon:
yeah he outright said it. No one reading these posts? Everyone just skimming for their own name?
This is back when Sorsha pointed out my mistake in thinking Roxy and Zebra were on the baddie team together. What's interesting, is before this, motel room doesn't bother to tell anyone "yeah he outright said it", only waits until a civvie lets people know. It is important to note that motel room does previous say "oh Keterman = RBZ" but never stops me from making accusations at Roxy or RBZ because of it...not until Sorsha does anyway.

This is weak, I dont get this. What are you saying?

Matt F wrote:
motel room wrote:
Diiny wrote:Not the time, I know, but it's annoying me. What's the floyd's deal? He's posting regularly on OT as far as I can tell so he's not exactly short on time. Even if he was it's in nobody's best interest to post one off topic thing. Probably some stupid gambit.
I get the feeling he's in a bit over his head, our Floyd.
Nice defense of baddie Floyd.

He's new. He's like 16 I think and he's only just discovering that people can be fake and manipulative (judging by a thread he started over in RYM). Forgive me if I don't hammer his balls for saying odd things according to the way we play this. He may well be scum but I've seen new town say things they dont understand the connotations of before in innocence.

How do you know he's scum? Heavy accentuation on the word K N O W.

Matt F wrote:
motel room wrote:
Strawhenge wrote:The thing about Sorsha is the second most pingy one. He was asked directly by another player, and gave a really dodgy response.
truthfact
Lookie there, teamies Strawhenge and motel room bullying poor innocent Sorsha (AGAIN TO BE FAIR I VOTED SORSHA LIKE HALF THE GAME)

motel room wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
motel room wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Guys, my vote is all alone at the bottom of the poll.
why were you keen on a Straw vote? I may have missed it.
It's an OMGUS vote.
might be why its all alone then.
Defending teamie Strawhenge

Not a teammate. Trying to challenge a potential weak lynch attempt by metalmarsh.

Matt F wrote:
motel room wrote:
TheFloyd73 wrote:
motel room wrote:
TheFloyd73 wrote:My first lack of inclusion was genuinely from stuff going on in my life that was messing with my head. And I will say AGAIN that if you wish to discuss this further, please PM me.
Has anyone PMed you?
No, not about that topic anyway. would you like to be the first?
Oh ok, like just from teammates?

I hope your head's ok now man.
Doesn't pursue this at all. Says later he "felt bad".

I don't like this.

Already answered on Floyd. And here's a thing, but you can try and paint it as defence of a teammate or whatever you want but I got a PM from Roxy, non-game related, about some interrogation room thing for this site. Now I don't believe people on the internet are real so I rarely engage but perhaps Floyd did?

Or perhaps not, maybe he's a scum that slipped. I don't know because I'm not in a position to know.

#4986

seaside wrote:JJJ strikes me as scum, there is just something bit different in his tone to normal. Combined with my early theory.

If JJJ was scum I'm the lone goat suckered by mac legit, which I'd rather not believe to be true. But also, man you are just phoning this in. Why did you just pick three players to engage with? Where did those three names come from?

#4987

3J

Votes MacDougall and Epignosis Dusk 0 for assistant CEO

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have my doubts that most mafia teams would be concerned enough with a "Dusk 0" poll that they'd deliberately coordinate their votes beyond a couple people maybe on any one person.

M'kay

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: I do know though that I put very little thought into my own Dusk 0 vote. It didn't pertain to a lynch, it was for some unknowable game mechanic.

You seem like a player who rarely, if ever, puts "very little thought" into this game. For real.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Is there really a discussion going on about my potential role based on what like the 1 or 2 posts I've made?

What's the rules on here about swearing?
Seaside suggested he thinks you're the rogue. motel room and I have been questioning him about why he thinks so.

Swearing is legal here as long as you're not abusive to people.

Motel Room, you say?

You and Motel Room actively disagreeing with people in the thread who think Mac is bad? Never!

Here's something interesting...

On Oct 7, 3:12 PM, 3J asks Long Con the following...

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Long Con wrote:I'd like to know bea's alignment before jumping to any conclusions about those people. Any pings or nods in that direction would be tenuous at best for now.
Then let's tenuously examine the scenario from both sides. If bea is town, how does that reflect on everyone else in this discussion? If bea is scum, how does that change the situation?

I looked over Long Con's posts, and Long Con never answers. The reason this is important and the reason I even took the time to see if Long Con answered was this post written by 3J the next day...

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Rbzmncaeaei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Brief appearance. Ask me things.
Why bcornett still?
Still because I don't believe he's made an appearance since I placed my vote. My prior two suspects (sig and LC) both answered every question I asked. Brian is a more involved civilian than this, even with time constraints, and even the posts he has made have largely been void of content. He's seemed to go with the flow, and that's not something I'd associate with a towncornett24.

No, Long Con did not answer EVERY question you asked. I'm wondering why such an organized player would say this when it's not true at all.

Anyway, I've made my way from page 17 - 14 on your ISO, and I'm going to take a break for a sec.

Linki - Motel Room, I appreciate you addressing my points, and I will respond to you soon. It's going to be a LOOOOONG day phase and I'm tired at the moment.

What do you think of my read on 3J so far?

#4988

Matt F wrote:Linki - Motel Room, I appreciate you addressing my points, and I will respond to you soon. It's going to be a LOOOOONG day phase and I'm tired at the moment.

What do you think of my read on 3J so far?

I don't know, it took me ages to edit in all the quote tags and junk. I still have a town read on jjj, fingers crossed pretty much. But I am definitely no longer confident enough and will be reading through.

#4989

Okay, I'm going to respond to what I perceive to be important and distinct points made in The Case Against Jay, and then I am going to concern myself with scumhunting. This means I will not address every point, because there isn't time and I really don't think it'll make enough of a difference to justify the distraction it'll cause in the thread (too many people talking about me instead of talking about everyone).

So, if I don't address a point that is important to you (as in something that is a difference-maker in your read of me) at some point tonight, go ahead and bring it up again and I'll answer to it. Otherwise I give you no guarantees that I will bother.

The writing is on the wall (and literally in the current tally). I think this is the best course of action for me to take for town's sake.

#4990

Epignosis wrote:You orgasmed all over MacDougall being civilian after the Long Con lynch, and poopooed any effort by those of us who said it was a setup. You lead a few civilian lynches, and now we're left with "Welp, Mac, you really fooled me, even after my half-assed attempt to make it look like I couldn't believe the bullshit you were spewing about Epi being the SK."

Oh my my my.

Mac's case for you being the SK seemed to based on perhaps-infodumped material about roleblocks. His final point towards EOD (that you were anticipating an investigative role or roleblock) was definitely absurd and I am objective enough to identify that.

Indeed a number of players were abnormally concerned with roleblocks during that day phase. You don't seem to know why.

But he was mafia and I think it's still quite likely he genuinely thinks you're the serial killer -- even if the case he presented in the end was ridiculous. I perceived him to be pursuing his genuine read of you to even the most absurd lengths because he had what he felt was real evidence against you that nobody else had. He had to know in the end that you were never getting lynched over him, so I don't think it was entirely a bad guy spewing bullshit because bad guys spew bullshit.

It was clearly absurd when he suggested you anticipated a roleblock and skipped a kill. No matter what you think of my interaction with Mac, I'm objective enough to identify that as silly and I said as much. If you think it was a last-ditch effort to distance myself from him, then you think I employed a strategy with a near-0% success chance. There was no "distancing" from the player I'd been quite loudly defending for days.

#4991

Diiny wrote:Jimmy, never change. <3

Unless you're scum, in which case you can just stop posting altogether. That'd be nice.

lol, remember the champs finale?

When I was exposed that was exactly what I did. Best way to avoid spewing information that can be used against the team is to not make any posts at all.

#4992

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
bcornett24 wrote:Don't think I stand a chance of catching up with this, I just haven't had the time to keep up with the massive amount of content in this game, my apologize.
I will try and be around as much as I can but it is rather difficult right now. I would have requested a replacement but by the time I knew I would need one, there were no more allowed, so I've been trying to manage.

I have some time right now. Anything anybody want me to answer or think I should read?
Jay ISO'd you Night 5, and promoted your lynch throughout Day 6. I don't know if you've seen these.

This is untrue. I ISO'd bcornett and ended up arriving upon a point that made me lean town on him. I then sought feedback for that point repeatedly during the day.

I absolutely did not pursue his lynch. Why has nobody else corrected this falsehood yet? A number of you literally talked to me about this point: Strawhenge and Bullzeye primarily.

That town read has lost its luster because it was a single point and relied heavily upon a thread of logic that doesn't feel sound -- even if it looked sound when I presented it.

#4993

TheFloyd73 wrote:Triple J, sorry dude.

For what?

#4994

Ricochet wrote:I told you to buckle up and get your best firestorm coat on.

You've had a few waffles in your stance on Mac throughout the Day. How's this for an incomprehensible post, considering you townreading Mac over and over.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:If we're not lynching Black Rock, which I strongly believe we should be, then:

DIINY > Mac > Doc
"I believe we should lynch BR, but if not, I believe Mac should be a runner up choice for today's lynch."

I never waffled on Mac. I was as clear as I could possibly be that I had a town read on him. The post you quoted was not in any way a means of endorsing his lynch. If you'll return to the context of the thread at the time of that post, there were three names being fielded as lynch options by most people talking (and I think they were the only three with multiple votes): Diiny, Mac, and DrWilgy.

Only one of those people was a suspect of mine. So I voted for him, and stated my preference for that Diiny lynch over Mac or DrWilgy. I also stated that I wanted to lynch Black Rock after having made a serious effort throughout the day to lynch her instead of anyone in this discussion. It didn't go my way -- I will feel a bit redeemed though when this all ends if BR is indeed mafia.

Mac was "ahead" of DrWilgy because I had a town read on both and I thought Mac's prolonged survival had the risk of poisoning the thread even if he was town. He was never going to survive the game with so many public adversaries and when a townie is in that position (as I thought Mac was) that is a great endgame weapon for the mafia team. See: Economics Mafia LyLo featuring G-Man and Vompatti.

Right now I feel the same way about myself. If I somehow live to a LyLo scenario I get lynched 98% of the time and town loses, so I'm not inclined to resist my own lynch as fervently as I would earlier in the game.

#4995

Matt F wrote:No, Long Con did not answer EVERY question you asked. I'm wondering why such an organized player would say this when it's not true at all.

If he missed one of my questions, I just didn't realize it. I ask so many questions of so many people in Mafia games that I doubt this is the first time I've failed to follow-up simply for having forgotten.

I might be an organized and thorough player, but I Am not A Robot.

#4996

Hey, I just remembered this thing!

I'm doing analyses right now, I'll think about this as I go. Tell me if you think anything is interesting here.

#4997

Mac said both bea and Sorsha were bad both who flipped civ. However, we've got a team of 7 mafia, LC was already dead so we had 6 not counting Mac we had 5.

Mac named 6 baddies Bea, Bullseye Wilgy, Matt, Roxy, and Sorsha. Know we already know 2/6 are clean, though I doubt all six are actually civs that means we have at least one mafia in this group. and a few in the clean group. Besides this I don't see how this would help you JJJ. This does make me more willing to vote for Bullseye and I will continue to think about Wilgy.

#4998

It doesn't help me, and I have no interest in it helping me. I'm done with defense now. About to finish my first Mac interaction review.

#4999

Mac's scum reads during the GTH exercise:

bea
Bullzeye
DrWilgy
Matt F
Roxy
Sorsha

Followed by this on Day 5:

MacDougall wrote:Gun to head top 6 as of right now.

Devin
Diiny
Metalmarsh
bcornett24
fingersplints
Floyd

Note the complete lack of overlap.

#5000

bcornett24 posts relevant to MacDougall and vice versa:

Spoiler: show

Mac and Brian share a brief exchange in which Mac turned aside a defense Brian employed regarding meta.

Spoiler: show

Mac is squarely in the neutral pile. No stance taken on a player who had been quite active to that point.

Spoiler: show

Brian was analyzing Sorsha and during that workload he encountered a Mac post he didn't like. This is a distinct accusation against Mac.

Spoiler: show

Questions Mac alongside Sorsha about his proposal that her lynch could be informative regardless of the flip.

Spoiler: show

bcornett24 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
bcornett24 wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
MacDougall wrote:I think we really have to lynch sorsha. I feel like it's the key to breaking the game open today. She either flips scum and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail, or flips town and leaves behind a tasty breadcrumb trail. Trusting Golden again seems like a nice way to get another townie killed. We've got a scum dead inside the first four days in a large game. We can afford a tactical lynch. Sorsha is a good lynch candidate for up front scum play as well as being the best possible lynch from a tactical perspective. Short of someone saying "I am scum" my vote won't be changing today.

Sorsha's play being scum is well documented, you only have to look at her recent posts to get a sense of posting nervously as scum playing poorly with a lynch on them tend to do.

DrWilgy... Are you tunneling me because I said you were scum in that Jimmy's game? Oh my God, u suck brah.
Explain how me flipping civ is going to help anything?
How does flipping town help? What will it reveal?
That's what I'm asking him. What knowledge does he think he is going to be graced with when I flip town?
I would then look at everyone who tried to keep you lynched over golden in light of the fact that golden had been talking like scum were going to be damaged by lynching him. You town plus his lynch being scary equals your wagon yesterday is full of scum.

Or you are scum and then you look at people who had their votes on the other recipients.

Is it unusual to take the odds to a civ lynch for future knowledge? I have seen it loads of times on RYM including people getting themselves lynched.

I like the fact that you have zeroed in on a minor detail that was quite self explanatory. Makes me more confident in a scum flip.
Where did you get that shovel from? You are digging yourself into a "hole" lot of suspicion!

In all seriousness, why would the town lynch a town member knowing she is potentially town. There are plenty of other reads out there to be made rather than going after an easy lynch. Time is better spent getting reads and analyzing the current 2751 posts and 28 members rather than settling on a lynch when there are still 19 hours before the day is up. This is illogical and scum reasoning. If there is no further reads to be made by the end of the day maybe then a Sorsha lynch for information but I think there is plenty of additional content to look through.

I will grant you that Sorsha's posts don't look great, but if you look back through my posts, it's not that far back, you will find my reasoning for why I think that Sorsha is a bad lynch, you are of course welcome to disagree with what I have to say but to be honest, I had you marked as neutral but now, I think you just jumped to likely scum.

Thoughts?

Brian continues this discussion with Mac and is clearly not impressed. This reflects in the following rainbow:

Spoiler: show

Mac is now in the red alongside Devin (town) and Bullzeye (unknown).

Spoiler: show

Seems to be trying earnestly to explain himself to Mac. I can at least confirm that the highlighted claim is true. Brian as town asked the field to lynch him late in RYM #87 because he felt it would lend important information to help win the game.

Spoiler: show

Post-Sorsha lynch Brian returned to Mac quickly and demanded returns on the "informational" lynch.

Spoiler: show

Odd exchange, primarily because of Mac's post in the middle. I don't think Brian did anything resembling "douche", so it looks like Mac was just using combative language to evade a valid question.

Spoiler: show

Maintains the pursuit.

Spoiler: show

Mac specifically endorses the LC lynch and waves off the Brian lynch based on a claimed non-read.

Spoiler: show

Inaccurate, Brian had mentioned Mac prior to this as can be noted in this review. A bit OMGUS by Mac.

Spoiler: show

Mac GTH reads Brian good.

Spoiler: show

I already mentioned this when I was going through Brian's posts, but I glossed over the more important bit due to the "douche" distraction: "scummy thing to scum". This is an accusation.

Spoiler: show

Mac throws out a GTH scum team and includes Brian. His read has completely changed now after the initial "no read" when bcornett could have been lynched over LC and the "good" read during the GTH exercise.

There's a cliche on RYM in which mafia players just can't resist the urge to include at least one of their team mates in their scumlists.

Spoiler: show

Somewhat indirectly promotes suspicion against low-posters and includes Brian. I actually don't think Brian has been a "low poster" in this game; he's been plenty active when he's been present.

Spoiler: show

Mac either misread or misrepresented an argument presented by Epi and Ricochet (that bcornett's voters on Day 1 have been flipping town, meaning LC's team mates didn't seem to make a significant save attempt). Because of this gaffe, Mac's counterargument is incongruent and results in an incorrect conveyance of the LC and bcornett wagons. This makes me wonder if he was really paying attention to who was voting for bcornett as opposed to how many votes he was getting. If that's true, that'd be a decent reflection on Brian.

~~~

bcornett24's final voting record:

Dusk 0: rundontwalk (17) and Devin the Omniscient (16)
Day 1: birdwithteeth11 (14)
Day 2: Long Con (32)
Day 3: Golden (10)
Day 4: Devin the Omniscient (15)
Day 5: Devin the Omniscient (10)
Day 6: JaggedJimmyJay (7)

The worst vote here is probably the vote for me on Day 6 (during the Mac lynch). I will note though that it was very early in the phase, and when he placed this vote the Mac train might not have taken off yet.

~~~

Conclusion:

Nothing jumps out at me and screams one alignment or the other. I think the best thing going for Brian is that he helped to lynch LC while also being a vocal aggressor against Mac throughout the game. The bad thing for him is that he didn't land an important Mac vote when it counted. I think Mac's treatment of Brian looks decent for him, but not overwhelmingly so. I'll use a grading scale for these so people who don't want to read all my shit can get a basic concept of my conclusion. A+ is a strong town reflection and F is a strong mafia reflection.

B-

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
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How would you rate Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)?