[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Epignosis]

Found this post.

Draconus = Devin

I've had a really busy day, been in and out non-stop. Kinda forgot I had to vote. I'm going to stick with a *Vote for Devin* because I do strongly think there was a constant scramble through the day to keep Sorsha ahead of him in the lynch every time he got near her.

You're so bad (again). I would vote for you but I can't shake my espers suspicion.

Because I've voted for you?

Because meta

Care to be more specific?

Recruitment

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just reread it. So you think it's possible...except he suspect Floyd just like you so maybe not.

Epignosis is "completely" and "literally" going through with the theory you brought up, but let's lynch Floyd.

I'm down because I've wanted to lynch Floyd like half the game. But if he flips civvie, I'm going to spend the rest of the game kicking and screaming that you both get lynched afterwards. :P

Be back in a bit, need to eat!

Epi is only completely and literally doing those things if he is mafia and is employing the exact strategy I suggested might be happening. There are plenty of reasons to think Epi is town as well, and I am suspicious of the player he is calling to lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What are the guts saying about this guy?

RadicalFuzz has been begging to be read as a bad guy all game long. I think it's time we oblige.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I guess I will say this though:

A willingness to lynch a player on Day 8 because he "isn't being helpful" does seem like a rather loaded case. If he is town then he is helpful by virtue of his existence. If Floyd is to be lynched, it should be because he is suspicious and only because he is suspicious.

Epi, is this perspective very different from "let's lynch Sorsha, even if she's town it might yield useful information"?

It's a built-in excuse to justify a dead civilian.

[Epignosis]

Night 5 posts

bcornett24- 0 posts
Bullzeye- 10 posts
Choutas- 12 posts
Diiny- 0 posts (0 posts Day 6 also)
DrWilgy- 0 posts
Elohcin- Isn't even reading the thread 3 posts
Epignosis- Count yourself if you care
JaggedJimmyJay- 14,241 posts
Matt F- 24 posts
Metalmarsh89- 24 posts
motel room- 0 posts
RadicalFuzz- 11 posts
Ricochet- 27 posts
Russtifinko- 10 posts
sig- 0 posts
Strawhenge- 2 posts
TheFloyd73- The Mountain Comes to Mohammad

Day 5:

Hey, I'm not going to be able to post here for the next 36-48 hours, as I'm travelling somewhere for a couple of days. Please forgive me (blame my parents).
I'll try and post as much as I can before I leave.

No kill.

Day 6:

I'm back from my trip

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Truth be told all of those zeroes do look SK-compatible in terms of content too, at least at a glance.

[Epignosis]

I guess I will say this though:

A willingness to lynch a player on Day 8 because he "isn't being helpful" does seem like a rather loaded case. If he is town then he is helpful by virtue of his existence. If Floyd is to be lynched, it should be because he is suspicious and only because he is suspicious.

Epi, is this perspective very different from "let's lynch Sorsha, even if she's town it might yield useful information"?

It's a built-in excuse to justify a dead civilian.

I didn't say "Lynch Floyd because he isn't being helpful." That's taking what I said out of context. I said that, between you and Floyd, I'd rather lynch Floyd and take my chances because he isn't as helpful as you. If Floyd is lynched and is a civilian, it's less of a loss than if we lynch you and you are a civilian.

Please be more careful with how you phrase what I say. I try to be very careful with how I phrase things so that my meaning is entirely clear.

[Matt]

I guess I will say this though:

A willingness to lynch a player on Day 8 because he "isn't being helpful" does seem like a rather loaded case. If he is town then he is helpful by virtue of his existence. If Floyd is to be lynched, it should be because he is suspicious and only because he is suspicious.

Epi, is this perspective very different from "let's lynch Sorsha, even if she's town it might yield useful information"?

It's a built-in excuse to justify a dead civilian.

I didn't say "Lynch Floyd because he isn't being helpful." That's taking what I said out of context. I said that, between you and Floyd, I'd rather lynch Floyd and take my chances because he isn't as helpful as you. If Floyd is lynched and is a civilian, it's less of a loss than if we lynch you and you are a civilian.

Please be more careful with how you phrase what I say. I try to be very careful with how I phrase things so that my meaning is entirely clear.

Regardless of Floyd's affiliation if lynched, will you be seeking to destroy 3J the following day phase or someone else? At what point do we finally lynch 3J?

Btw guys I get excited playing this game, so if you see me as intense, I'm just havin' fun like the rest of ya all

[Matt]

I don't know how useful this will prove, but I'm going to ISO Epignosis and 3J with ctrl F on Floyd and see the results.

Be back in a bit

[Epignosis]

I guess I will say this though:

A willingness to lynch a player on Day 8 because he "isn't being helpful" does seem like a rather loaded case. If he is town then he is helpful by virtue of his existence. If Floyd is to be lynched, it should be because he is suspicious and only because he is suspicious.

Epi, is this perspective very different from "let's lynch Sorsha, even if she's town it might yield useful information"?

It's a built-in excuse to justify a dead civilian.

I didn't say "Lynch Floyd because he isn't being helpful." That's taking what I said out of context. I said that, between you and Floyd, I'd rather lynch Floyd and take my chances because he isn't as helpful as you. If Floyd is lynched and is a civilian, it's less of a loss than if we lynch you and you are a civilian.

Please be more careful with how you phrase what I say. I try to be very careful with how I phrase things so that my meaning is entirely clear.

Regardless of Floyd's affiliation if lynched, will you be seeking to destroy 3J the following day phase or someone else? At what point do we finally lynch 3J?

Btw guys I get excited playing this game, so if you see me as intense, I'm just havin' fun like the rest of ya all

That, no offense, is an obtuse question to ask. "Regardless of Floyd's affiliation?" You're asking me to judge 3J before I have pertinent information? I don't know what I'll be seeking to do Day 9. I'm on Day 8.

I'm glad you're back and having a good time.

[Ricochet]

Choutas

Interactions with LC
Nada.

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- Questions MacBaddie being so inactive on D1
-- Rebuttal to Mac on sussing RDW for meta and calling his own gameplay rusty
-- Has MacBaddie as green in his D3 rainbow
-- suspicious of Mac after the D3 GTH for offering only...two baddies? (not sure of actually context)
-- calls Mac among towniest guys in the game, excuses his place in the early Devin vote
-- top of the rainbow reads D5
-- dislikes Mac's SK/kill theories D5, finding them unprovable
-- not sure about Mac after his attitude towards getting heat; also finds Matt's SK theory making complete sense
-- upon Mac's request, makes a case on Epignosis being a possible serial killer; finds reasons to make a case on Epig
-- D6 calls Wilgy and Mac openly interacting as mafioso
-- starts question motel and Floyd on choosing or not to vote Mac
-- MacBaddie top townread D6
-- vouches for MacBaddie's meta
-- picks up Epig's theory on Mac being co-conspirator with LC, but only agrees on the part that mafia is worth hunting more than rogue
-- still clear on not voting Mac
-- save MacDougall fistpump
-- suss's JJJ on idly sitting and watching a Mac lynch happen (?)
-- D7 denies ever suspecting Mac, instead always having a townier read on him;
-- rebuttal

Interactions with Black Rock
-- chats about his name
-- has her neutral in his D3 rainbow
-- has her... dark green? in his D5 rainbow
-- has her... orange in his D6 rainbow; also D7

LC interactions with Choutas
-- Votes Choutas for his freestylin'
-- Agrees with JJJ and Choutas on desire to lynch seaside on D2

MacBaddie interactions with Choutas
-- D1 suss's Choutas on picking on meta (RDW) and claiming rusty gameplay
-- Questions motel on voting Choutas
-- reads Choutas good D3 GTH
-- Mentions Choutas in SK analysis
-- Rebuttals on Choutas finding the Matt SK theories good
-- Comments on Choutas' letter to the SK (finds Choutas' suspects town)
-- faintly critical of Choutas asking for SK to kill Rico rather than making a proper case
-- then, questioning Rico is Choutas above actions really sound anti-town
-- calls Choutas to address Epi being SK issue
-- D6 calls Choutas (alongside motel) worthy of analysis, for being subdued and... teflon

Black Rock interactions with Choutas
-- Only comments on pronounciation of Choutas

Votes
somewhat already interpreted

Read
Scum scum scum scum scumly scum scum scum. So yeah, not much change in my feelings. He insists on having townread Mac constantly, but the history reveals some waffling points, even to the extent of saying a few times that the several theories on Mac being bad make some sense. Perhaps trying to attach himself, early on? "Early on" also seems the motto of his voting - early on, to not get interpreted so much within the main events, perhaps? Oh, except that one time, when, all of a sudden, Mac's lynch seemingly compelled him to act late on. Mac's interactions, by comparison, are really detached and non-descript for most of the game; he only suddenly calls him (alongside motel) worth of inspection on his lynch day, which I find very cute, but it doesn't give me the sense of paintspraying as much with others that Mac hissed at and put labels on, at that point. Choutas said nothing specific of Black Rock, but constantly downgraded here on the rainbow lists, which is a major wtf and reads to me as preparation for her "descent" into modkill. Black Rock was also specifically asked what she thinks of Choutas and only worried about how the name is pronounced.

[Matt]

ISO Epignosis CTRLing Floyd

Well, here we go

Do you like Kansas?

Makes a mafia smiley towards Floyd. Cute.

Epi

Based upon what I have seen and what I have been doing, I believe Mac and Matt they says that Epi is the SK. Fuzz stated nothing that would change my mind, I am still looking as to what Floyd thinks Epi is.

What did they say and why do you believe it?

Dr Wilgy, did Floyd ever answer you about his thoughts on Epignosis?

Epi, if you could express your feelings about the current Floyd wagon with one adjective, what would that be?

BLAAAAAAAARHGDHGGGGGGGGHDWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHFFFFFLP

Here's a fun one between 3J and Epignosis.

3J - What was your objective with this post?

Epig - What did this answer mean to convey?

*Ahem*

I mean to say, "Meh."

I realize that's two interjections and that I've doubly failed your test, but I have no idea about TheFloyd73. He said some things that he, at this juncture, deserves to be lynched over (I still don't get the "in the thread you mean?" stuff). I keep holding out hope that he would become less enigmatic and more assertive as things wind down, but so far that hasn't happened.

Oh, nevermind Epignosis, you meant "meh" and 48 hours ago, you had "no idea" about The Floyd.

Then Epignosis asks 3J to vote for seaside instead of Floyd. 3J obliges. Then Epignosis questions bcornett if he's still voting Floyd, because at this point it seems Epignosis really wants seaside lynched, I guess.

And that's it.

It's weird. There are more mentions of Floyd on the very last page of Epi's ISO then the other 10 pages combined.

From this, though, I find it weird that 3J and Epignosis seem to very strongly disagree with the "bandwagon" on Floyd (and this was 2 days ago) but now they both suspect Floyd.

On to 3J next. This one might take awhile (thanks a lot for posting so much 3J gee whiz) :P

[Marmot]

Just popping in supposed to be doing school but Mom hasn't noticed I'm not yet :P

Are you homeschooled? What grade are you in?

Okay, thoughts. I have to say that I am beginning to remove my trust of Epi. I hate to even say it, but he is acting weird. He doesn't normally act this wishy-washy. I think MM could be right that he is the SK. And I hate that b/c I fought Mac when he said it could be.

I defended some of the accusations Mac threw at Epignosis as well. Key word being some.

linki (which I clicked through): No, wishy-washy. This is unlike you. You have been playing differently all game. You didn't come out in the beginning with accusations and testing people. You were being "observant". I chalked that up to there being new people, but now that you are involved, you don;t really seem like you are trying to get Mafia. You seem like you are just trying to get anyone lynched as long as it isn't you.

Differently than what? I play differently every game. I've been clear on that, and no one has been able to refute my claim. People think they know what my "usual" methods are, but they don't, and I laugh when they act otherwise.

If you think I am Psycho Killer, why would I drive the lynch away from 3J at the last moment when I need him dead to win?

Get your head in the game.

It was a logical move for me to do it as the PSK.

So what I have learned by coming out of the blue and calling MM the Psycho Killer is that two people were eager to jump on that and lynch him for no stated reason:

Spoiler: show

Who tried and failed to kill Mr. (or Mrs.) ?????

Poll runs till Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:28 pm
You may select 1 option

bcornett24
0
No votes

Bullzeye
0
No votes

Diiny
1
bcornett24 (10)
6%

DrWilgy
1
RadicalFuzz (18)
6%

Elohcin
0
No votes

Epignosis
0
No votes

JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes

Matt F
0
No votes

Metalmarsh89
3
Epignosis (4), Strawhenge (6), TheFloyd73 (8)
17%

motel room
2
Russtifinko (7), Matt F (11)
11%

RadicalFuzz
0
No votes

Ricochet
0
No votes

Russtifinko
2
Metalmarsh89 (3), motel room (9)
11%

sig
0
No votes

Strawhenge
0
No votes

TheFloyd73
2
Choutas (13), Diiny (14)
11%

Two killers who aren't very good job at their jobs, apparently (host, deadies, non-players)
7
MovingPictures07 (1), Sloonei (2), HamburgerBoy (5), a2thezebra (12), MacDougall (15), bea (16), juliets (17)
39%


Total votes : 18

Regardless of whether MM is PK (and I don't really think he is, for a reason obvious to me), it's clear that Mammaries Can't Wait is still alive (it is October and I was wearing a pink shirt today, after all), and lynching Mafia should be top priority, which would deprive PK of his deadmaking services yet again.

Given that Long Con tried to pull this very thing Day 2 (or, rather, what looks like this very thing), I figure no one would expect me to do it. So I did.

Plus football got boring as hell last night.

Oh really.

I'm still posting all the things I've got in this post regardless. Since I had three votes on me, and attention really wasn't directed on me that much, there's still a chance you are trying to play us.

But I do appreciate you not wanting to lynch me now.

I asked myself who I would not want to lynch this phase, and these names came out of my brain:

bcornett24
Choutas
Diiny
DrWilgy
Elohcin
Matt F
Ricochet
Strawhenge

leaving: Bullzeye, MM, motel room, RadicalFuzz, Russ, sig, Floyd

I think there's a healthy scum pile in that last list, and probably at least one in the non-lynch list. Some of my choices here might be confusing, but I can explain my perspective at least in brief terms if anyone asks. I am letting my gut have more of a say right now -- my analyses have been too inconsistent this game and I've lost confidence in my grasp of the mafia strategy.

Where does Epignosis fall on this list?

If D3 manipulation could be viable - albeit meaning I should have been dead - then yes, I would lean on him having seen civ manipulation rather than Drugs, so something working in your favour. But the only civ manipulation with negatives is Blind's, I think? And if so, why would seaside suss one of you out at all?

I honestly think seaside just saw that your vote total was not what it was supposed to be and then suspected everyone on the wagon as a result. I acknowledge this would mean that he never thoroughly read the roles in the game, but I don't see any other explanation.

I would actually agree with this.

Found this post.

Draconus = Devin

I've had a really busy day, been in and out non-stop. Kinda forgot I had to vote. I'm going to stick with a *Vote for Devin* because I do strongly think there was a constant scramble through the day to keep Sorsha ahead of him in the lynch every time he got near her.

You're so bad (again). I would vote for you but I can't shake my espers suspicion.

Because I've voted for you?

Because meta

Care to be more specific?

Recruitment

Isn't he talking about Recruitment Mafia?

Did you want me to answer that question?

Truth be told all of those zeroes do look SK-compatible in terms of content too, at least at a glance.

Epignosis also had 0 posts that night.

[Marmot]

Night 5 posts

bcornett24- 0 posts
Bullzeye- 10 posts
Choutas- 12 posts
Diiny- 0 posts (0 posts Day 6 also)
DrWilgy- 0 posts
Elohcin- Isn't even reading the thread 3 posts
Epignosis- Count yourself if you care
JaggedJimmyJay- 14,241 posts
Matt F- 24 posts
Metalmarsh89- 24 posts
motel room- 0 posts
RadicalFuzz- 11 posts
Ricochet- 27 posts
Russtifinko- 10 posts
sig- 0 posts
Strawhenge- 2 posts
TheFloyd73- The Mountain Comes to Mohammad

Day 5:

Hey, I'm not going to be able to post here for the next 36-48 hours, as I'm travelling somewhere for a couple of days. Please forgive me (blame my parents).
I'll try and post as much as I can before I leave.

No kill.

Day 6:

I'm back from my trip

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The biggest question for me about the notion of a SK Epi: do you feel he has played in a way that is evasive of night kills?

[Epignosis]

Night 5 posts

bcornett24- 0 posts
Bullzeye- 10 posts
Choutas- 12 posts
Diiny- 0 posts (0 posts Day 6 also)
DrWilgy- 0 posts
Elohcin- Isn't even reading the thread 3 posts
Epignosis- Count yourself if you care
JaggedJimmyJay- 14,241 posts
Matt F- 24 posts
Metalmarsh89- 24 posts
motel room- 0 posts
RadicalFuzz- 11 posts
Ricochet- 27 posts
Russtifinko- 10 posts
sig- 0 posts
Strawhenge- 2 posts
TheFloyd73- The Mountain Comes to Mohammad

Day 5:

Hey, I'm not going to be able to post here for the next 36-48 hours, as I'm travelling somewhere for a couple of days. Please forgive me (blame my parents).
I'll try and post as much as I can before I leave.

No kill.

Day 6:

I'm back from my trip

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

He specifically made mention that he would be absent that Night. I think that's important evidence. It's the same thing I looked for a long time ago when you said you were going camping. It didn't clear you, but I still looked.

[Marmot]

The biggest question for me about the notion of a SK Epi: do you feel he has played in a way that is evasive of night kills?

If a player controls half of the nightkills (or more), their chances of being nightkilled are greatly diminished.

Nonetheless that is a good question Jay. My initial reaction is that Epignosis "literally" doesn't give a shit if he is nightkilled, and he will just play the game to have fun.

[Marmot]

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

He specifically made mention that he would be absent that Night. I think that's important evidence. It's the same thing I looked for a long time ago when you said you were going camping. It didn't clear you, but I still looked.[/quote]

I believe you. If only there was a Night 2 just so I could miss that instead of the Day 3 vote. :P

[Marmot]

EBWOP

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

He specifically made mention that he would be absent that Night. I think that's important evidence. It's the same thing I looked for a long time ago when you said you were going camping. It didn't clear you, but I still looked.

I believe you. If only there was a Night 2 just so I could miss that instead of the Day 3 vote. :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epi, if you could express your feelings about the current Floyd wagon with one adjective, what would that be?

BLAAAAAAAARHGDHGGGGGGGGHDWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHFFFFFLP

Here's a fun one between 3J and Epignosis.

3J - What was your objective with this post?

Epig - What did this answer mean to convey?

I don't remember the exact context, but I think I was weighing the scenario in front of me as the most likely lynch of the moment -- Epi had starting pursuing seaside while the Floyd wagon developed as the first counterwagon to mine. I didn't recall him taking a stance on Floyd and wanted to know how he read the situation. I was considering a Floyd vote myself, and ended up going for seaside because I couldn't find the confidence that a Floyd lynch would be well-advised. I have a mafia-career-long blind spot for new players and find them very difficult to lynch, because I can never differentiate their weird newbie posts from genuine slips.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The biggest question for me about the notion of a SK Epi: do you feel he has played in a way that is evasive of night kills?

If a player controls half of the nightkills (or more), their chances of being nightkilled are greatly diminished.

Nonetheless that is a good question Jay. My initial reaction is that Epignosis "literally" doesn't give a shit if he is nightkilled, and he will just play the game to have fun.

It's also possible that there is some kind of protective mechanic present in the *secrets* portion of the Psycho Killer role. And you're right that the mafia team only getting semi-nightly kills diminishes the rogue's need to avoid them.

I think Epi is right that the case for him as the SK can be reduced mostly to "did he miss a PM on Night 5, yes or no?" or "did he deliberately skip a kill attempt?", unless anyone can think of an alternative explanation for there being no mention of a SK kill attempt that night in the host posts. That essentially brings us back to the argument Mac was pushing when he crossed the border into Crazy Town.

[Marmot]

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

He specifically made mention that he would be absent that Night. I think that's important evidence. It's the same thing I looked for a long time ago when you said you were going camping. It didn't clear you, but I still looked.

Nobody was missing from the poll Day 6. There's another power not in effect Night 5.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Then again, he we are babbling about the SK with numerous mafia likely still breathing.

[Marmot]

Maybe he has the option to nightkill twice in one night but must forgo a nightkill the following night.

This is an alternative explanation that would also explain the double kill on Night 4.

I don't recall if there was another good theory for there being two nightkills from PSK on Night 4.

Linki: Ture.

[Marmot]

Who do you want to lynch today Jay? Your vote is still withheld.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Who do you want to lynch today Jay? Your vote is still withheld.

I'll throw one on SIG. I thought he looked pretty terrible yesterday during the near lynch of me. I'll review him now to see if my gut read holds.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This was my analysis of sig's interaction with LC. I said it was decent look for him. I'd appreciate it if anyone could take a quick look at this and check their own perspective against the one I produced then. Given my Mac/LC analysis (and a few others), I'm not inclined to take my prior perspective very seriously. Some of it still seems logical to me though so some feedback would be nifty as I proceed into the rest of the sig stuff.

[Epignosis]

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

He specifically made mention that he would be absent that Night. I think that's important evidence. It's the same thing I looked for a long time ago when you said you were going camping. It didn't clear you, but I still looked.

Nobody was missing from the poll Day 6. There's another power not in effect Night 5.

That could have been blocked and the host post would have made no mention of it. The simplest explanation is that Psycho Killer missed his PM that Night.

The simplest explanation is that TheFloyd73 didn't have the opportunity to send in a PM because he was traveling.

That's Occam's Razor.

[Matt]

ISO JaggedJimmyJay CTRLing Floyd

Asks seaside why Floyd is town

In a response to Zebra accusing several players of being Mafia including Floyd...

Floyd's content is definitely not inherently more suspicious than bcornett's. I can understand it being called suspicious, but more suspicious is nonsense.

4. Noncommittal on seaside because I've never played with him before, I don't know if this is how he always acts but I didn't see anything too suspicious in his behavior. I also didn't like the reasons some people were given for voting him. At the same time they knew him better than I did, but I still only think you should lynch someone if you really think they are bad.

You didn't think his earliest contributions were a little suspect (things like him calling Floyd73 a town read and Mac a rogue read)? I did. I do understand you being hesitant to commit as someone that doesn't know seaside though. I probably wouldn't be able to generate a strong stance in your position either.

[/quote]

Above we have 3J having a discussion with (civvie) Sorsha about (civvie) Seaside. 3J finds seaside suspicious because seaside believes Floyd is town and Mac is rogue.

Floyd probably is a town, I would imagine he'd be in here or replaced by now if he were mafia. At one point I found Mac suspicious too and like seaside, I have never played with Mac before but Mac and seaside have played with one another before. For all I know seaside was right about him and calling him out early.

I don't fault you for that Floyd read, but I do think it's the wrong mindset and encourage you (and anyone who agrees) to reconsider. I think MP places a lot of importance on maintaining the proper integrity of a setup and would not inherently favor one faction over another when seeking replacements.

Doesn't fault Sorsha for reading Floyd as a "town read" but urges her to reconsider.

THEFLOYD73

THELLAMA73

bad

bad

Relationship between TheFloyd73 and Long Con:

It doesn't exist. Honestly, thank you for that Floyd. I'm so close to being done with this now.

~~~

When a brand new player is totally silent, I tend to view that as a slightly negative thing. In general though he's still a roll of the dice.

This is after he suspects a player for seeing Floyd as town, urges Sorsha to reconsider her stance on Floyd, and G2H'ds Floyd as "bad". But "in general though he's still a roll of the dice."

That was the most work I have ever put into a Mafia game in one sitting. My head is going to explode. Here's a rainbowized summary purely based on LC interactions:


TheFloyd73

I'd like to point out that this rainbow list had 6 colors, and yellow was the fourth color in the list, implementing Floyd as "mildy bad" I suppose?

TheFloyd73, why have you voted for thellama73?

rude. ;( I don't see any votes for llamasplints though.

Sorry, I forgot he was who you'd replaced.

Now he moved it to Elohcin. What are you doing Floyd? Talk to me, boy!

I must say, I'm confused about the speculation surrounding me.

You're participating in the game by placing votes, but not really by involving yourself in the thread. Why have you voted for Elohcin?

If I recall, Floyd's answer to 3J's question was lacking.

Yes, Floyd, how much of the thread text have you read?

A decent amount, I've had heavy stuff going on in my life.

I hope everything turns out peachy keen, mate. We appreciate you trying your best to play with us despite the circumstances.

I think you'll find that many players will always find it suspicious when someone is not posting very much while voting on time each day. That indicates that you are at least staying attentive to the game's existence without involving yourself in the discussions that generate pressure. I know this is your first Mafia game though, and it has taken off at a torrent pace that must be difficult to keep up with.

Please understand that we all need to have a way to read what your alignment is. At the moment you're sort of a coin flip, there's just not enough information to make any fair judgments about you. You're doing better today though, and if you keep that up then that'd be awesome.

Despite G2H'ding and rainbow reading him bad, urging Sorsha to rethink her stance on Floyd, suspect seaside for daring to say Floyd is town, here 3J says "At the moment you're sort of a coin flip".

ISO for TheFloyd73 at the request of TheFloyd73:

>snip<

There's not enough to take a stance with any conviction. I see room for a baddie to exist in this post history, and I see room for a townie to exist in this post history. Talk to me Floyd and help me make up my mind.

Per the underline, it looks to me with your G2H, Rainbow, urging of Sorsha to reconsider, and suspecting seaside for finding Floyd town...it looks like your mind was already made up.

Actually, Triple J, wasn't it you who recommended I join Mafia on RYM?

It was indeed. Glad to have you.

What led you to trying to enlist me specifically?

You seem like a level fellow and I thought you might like to give it a try. We're always happy to have new people take part.

My stance for years has always been this:

I don't believe in scumslips.

I don't know what Floyd meant by "rivals", but I doubt he literally meant "I'm mafia and you're town, hahaha."

Defense of Floyd up above despite 3J reading him bad all game.

Oh SNAP here's a good one, while 3J was ISOing Black Rock, he says...

I'm quite surprised BR had any confidence to take a stance on Floyd's alignment given the challenging position she was still in at this point in catching up fully. If BR is mafia, then I would consider this pretty conclusive spew that Floyd is town.

3J - Now that we know BR was Mafia, what do you think of Floyd's alignment?

RUSSTIFINKO

SEASIDE

SIG

STRAWHENGE

THEFLOYD73

bad

good

bad

good

bad

Epi, if you could express your feelings about the current Floyd wagon with one adjective, what would that be?

Already quoted in Epignosis' ISO, but again, what was your objective with this post, 3J?

I think it's impossible to be thrilled about a Floyd lynch because there's just no way to draw a lynch-caliber case from his content.

Despite 3J thinking Floyd has been bad pretty much all game.

****

I think 3J comes out looking better then Epignosis with this experiment.

3J - What do you think of Floyd now that Black Rock has flipped Mafia?

[Matt]

Elohcin - A horse walks into a bar and the bartender asks "Why the long face?"

Sorry about that, just trying to get to the point...

What do you think about an Epignosis lynch today?

[Epignosis]

Then again, he we are babbling about the SK with numerous mafia likely still breathing.

I am not babbling. I have people breathing down my neck about the issue. If have a vested interest in Psycho Killer coming up lynched.

[Ricochet]

sig

Interactions with LC
-- D1 dislikes LC's lynch vote (bea case) right away
-- rebuttals on his wording issue, for which he's suspected
-- calls LC flip-flopping on him
-- rebuttal to JJJ placing him alongside LC on the suspects list
-- D2 top suspect, more rebuttals, votes him
-- (post-lynch) rebuttal to Golden putting him on his list
-- (post-lynch) suspects seaside based on LC comment on him looking like back up; considering Golden as well
-- (post-lynch) agrees with Wilgy on his LC analysis, out of which Golden comes off the worst
-- (post-lynch) D6 questions Rico's "attempts" to direct attention away from LC defenders to those that suspected LC

Interactions with MacBaddie
-- Questions him on saying seaside is a liability
-- Questions Mac lynch on D5
-- Willing to lynch Mac (!), but wants to focus on Devin and Sorsha purshers
-- after consideration, finds the Epig SK theory to have good points, not so confident about Mac
-- D6 states being suspicious of Mac, but not sure whether to vote him
-- (post-lynch) calls Choutas bad for defending Mac; also suspects JJJ, for switching on to Diiny bandwagon
-- (post-lynch) considers Mac to have placed at least one teammate in his top 6
-- (post-lynch) calls JJJ's counterwagon similar to Mac attempt; calls JJJ mafia, alonside seaside pushers

Interactions with Black Rock
-- only mentions her in context of JJJ switching off her

LC interactions with sig
-- develops "crafting" case on sig D1; however, refutes the idea that he's trying to get sig lynched
-- votes sig despite "reasonable explanation", based on original suspicion and reactions
-- in reply to Matt, suddenly defends sig's explanations and calls Matt's ping "phoney"
-- fends off (partly) sig's case on him, states again that he has no intention to lynch or tunnel on him

MacBaddie interactions with sig
-- mocks FZ's dislike of a sig wagon
-- reads sig good in D3 GTH
-- in reply to Choutas, asks for evidence which to convince him that sig is bad
-- not alarmed by sig's SK mentions
-- reads sig best in LC lynch, but dislikes how sig entertained Matt's SK theory; asks him to contribute more
-- wary of Devin D5 late lynchers
-- puts sig in his final top 6 scumcall

Black Rock interactions with sig
Nada.

Votes
D1 votes BWT, self-defense, plus finding him "most suspicious"
D2 votes LC, for his cases and action
D3 votes Golden, but after a Golden - Rico - Golden switch
misses D4 vote
D5 votes Devin, opposing espers bandwagon
D6 votes Diiny, seeing him mafia ("declining" posts, low posters profile)
D7 votes JJJ

Read
Well, if we are to exhaust the mutual antagonism scenario between LC and another player, look no further. This is still a tricky one, however, because we have to ask ourselves, in the end: was LC's sig case just as bogus and civ-framing as bea's? Are sig's suspicions on LC genuine, despite not capitalizing on them D1? His stances on Mac read to me very insecure. Same questions could be asked of Mac's putting sig in the bad corner, after Days of reading him good: is it a smear? is it an identical cover up with how LC did it? sig's votes don't speak in his favour, for his last three votes are even hard to trace back solid case making (which isn't to say there isn't a bit of history to them, but the scumcalling is often sudden and feels drummed on). I'm also still wondering if sig's switch from me to Golden wasn't to save skin. Not that it mattered, since it was a wagon of civilians through and through, but in the case of my lynch, he would have looked worse, bandwagoning on JJJ's case, rather than on Golden, on whom he had created some suss sentences. It irks me just as much that on D6 he mused whether I might be doing a "baddie trick" by switching the perspectives - which clearly yielded results, in catching MacBaddie. And what did his vote back then started? That's right, the Diiny counterwagon.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Matt, I honestly forgot about that Black Rock post re: Floyd. I'll have to return to that when I finish this sig review and decide how I feel.

One thing I really must say is this though Matt: you continue to exaggerate so much of what you say and it affects everything in your analysis as you proceed. You equate me stating mild suspicions of Floyd, or acknowledging other people's suspicions of Floyd, or questioning their town reads of Floyd, all of those things, with "JJJ thinks Floyd is bad".

That's not how I think. That's not how I play Mafia.

I don't know about you, but the words "I think [player] is bad." really aren't commonplace in my early-game language. I develop reads in a gradual and fluid process. I rarely reach concrete conclusions until I have performed thorough analyses, and often not even that is good enough. I can provide leans and I can provide reads, but to completely assign a mafia role to a player who had no posts that could be assessed in any meaningful way is beyond my talents.

[Epignosis]

Then again, he we are babbling about the SK with numerous mafia likely still breathing.

I am not babbling. I have people breathing down my neck about the issue. If have a vested interest in Psycho Killer coming up lynched.

*I have

I need a new keyboard.

[Ricochet]

So that's only 6 out of 16, yet I have to call it a...sunrise?

As always, I have no idea what I'm getting myself into, doing all these ISOs.

[Elohcin]

Elo, could you talk to me a little about why you suspect me -- even if it seems obvious to you? I don't know if I can change your mind, but I'd like the chance to try.

I will answer this tomorrow.

Elohcin - A horse walks into a bar and the bartender asks "Why the long face?"

Sorry about that, just trying to get to the point...

What do you think about an Epignosis lynch today?

I think we ought to wait it out. I am not sure enough of him to place a vote on Epi. I will be changing to Floyd however as I want my vote to count. Maybe his lynch will give us better read on JJJ too.

[Matt]

3J - You G2H Floyd as bad twice, you rainbow read him bad, you urged Sorsha to reconsider her position on Floyd, and you suspected seaside for calling Floyd town.

I don't think I exaggerated all of the above.

The main reason I'm doing this is because now I think you and Epignosis are scum partners.

I find it highly questionable that you would theorize that the Mafia is trying to avoid getting you lynched so they can fall back on it later if need be, and yet while Epignosis finds you "Mafia" (if that's still his idea, who knows?), he would rather lynch seaside (a civvie) yesterday and Floyd (who he pretty much has not talked about at all) today...yet you have reservations about Epignosis because he suspects Floyd as you do. I call bologna. I'm pretty sure every single player has suspected Floyd at some point in this game (whether they have said so in the thread or not), so your reason for being hesitant on Epignosis is highly suspect.

I also find it highly suspect that Epignosis has barely mentioned Floyd all game, but suddenly because of his weird "gambit" with MM, he wants to lynch Floyd instead of you.

Changing my vote to Epignosis

[Epignosis]

3J - You G2H Floyd as bad twice, you rainbow read him bad, you urged Sorsha to reconsider her position on Floyd, and you suspected seaside for calling Floyd town.

I don't think I exaggerated all of the above.

The main reason I'm doing this is because now I think you and Epignosis are scum partners.

I find it highly questionable that you would theorize that the Mafia is trying to avoid getting you lynched so they can fall back on it later if need be, and yet while Epignosis finds you "Mafia" (if that's still his idea, who knows?), he would rather lynch seaside (a civvie) yesterday and Floyd (who he pretty much has not talked about at all) today...yet you have reservations about Epignosis because he suspects Floyd as you do. I call bologna. I'm pretty sure every single player has suspected Floyd at some point in this game (whether they have said so in the thread or not), so your reason for being hesitant on Epignosis is highly suspect.

I also find it highly suspect that Epignosis has barely mentioned Floyd all game, but suddenly because of his weird "gambit" with MM, he wants to lynch Floyd instead of you.

Changing my vote to Epignosis

Three Mafia down and you vote me based on my interactions with two people whose alignments you do not know.

Jesus man.

[Epignosis]

Elo, could you talk to me a little about why you suspect me -- even if it seems obvious to you? I don't know if I can change your mind, but I'd like the chance to try.

I will answer this tomorrow.

Elohcin - A horse walks into a bar and the bartender asks "Why the long face?"

Sorry about that, just trying to get to the point...

What do you think about an Epignosis lynch today?

I think we ought to wait it out. I am not sure enough of him to place a vote on Epi. I will be changing to Floyd however as I want my vote to count. Maybe his lynch will give us better read on JJJ too.

You forgot to vote again.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A gun to head read has literally TWO options -- good or bad. You clearly play with a mindset of certainty, as you've just evidenced again with this incorrect pairing of Epi and I, and it is nothing like my own methods. You are not interpreting my reads progressions as I have intended them to be interpreted and there's nothing more I can do to explain myself. I'm focusing on my review.

[Matt]

3J - You G2H Floyd as bad twice, you rainbow read him bad, you urged Sorsha to reconsider her position on Floyd, and you suspected seaside for calling Floyd town.

I don't think I exaggerated all of the above.

The main reason I'm doing this is because now I think you and Epignosis are scum partners.

I find it highly questionable that you would theorize that the Mafia is trying to avoid getting you lynched so they can fall back on it later if need be, and yet while Epignosis finds you "Mafia" (if that's still his idea, who knows?), he would rather lynch seaside (a civvie) yesterday and Floyd (who he pretty much has not talked about at all) today...yet you have reservations about Epignosis because he suspects Floyd as you do. I call bologna. I'm pretty sure every single player has suspected Floyd at some point in this game (whether they have said so in the thread or not), so your reason for being hesitant on Epignosis is highly suspect.

I also find it highly suspect that Epignosis has barely mentioned Floyd all game, but suddenly because of his weird "gambit" with MM, he wants to lynch Floyd instead of you.

Changing my vote to Epignosis

Three Mafia down and you vote me based on my interactions with two people whose alignments you do not know.

Jesus man.

I have my reasons as I've laid out. You came out guns a blazing wanting 3J lynched on Day 7, yet eventually started a train on civvie seaside, and today you want to lynch Floyd despite you barely mentioning him all game long.

I find that suspect. And though this isn't your fault, I find it very suspect that 3J theorized exactly what you seem to be doing, but is hesitant to vote for you because you find Floyd suspicious (as everyone in the game has no doubt)

[Epignosis]

3J - You G2H Floyd as bad twice, you rainbow read him bad, you urged Sorsha to reconsider her position on Floyd, and you suspected seaside for calling Floyd town.

I don't think I exaggerated all of the above.

The main reason I'm doing this is because now I think you and Epignosis are scum partners.

I find it highly questionable that you would theorize that the Mafia is trying to avoid getting you lynched so they can fall back on it later if need be, and yet while Epignosis finds you "Mafia" (if that's still his idea, who knows?), he would rather lynch seaside (a civvie) yesterday and Floyd (who he pretty much has not talked about at all) today...yet you have reservations about Epignosis because he suspects Floyd as you do. I call bologna. I'm pretty sure every single player has suspected Floyd at some point in this game (whether they have said so in the thread or not), so your reason for being hesitant on Epignosis is highly suspect.

I also find it highly suspect that Epignosis has barely mentioned Floyd all game, but suddenly because of his weird "gambit" with MM, he wants to lynch Floyd instead of you.

Changing my vote to Epignosis

Three Mafia down and you vote me based on my interactions with two people whose alignments you do not know.

Jesus man.

I have my reasons as I've laid out. You came out guns a blazing wanting 3J lynched on Day 7, yet eventually started a train on civvie seaside, and today you want to lynch Floyd despite you barely mentioning him all game long.

I find that suspect. And though this isn't your fault, I find it very suspect that 3J theorized exactly what you seem to be doing, but is hesitant to vote for you because you find Floyd suspicious (as everyone in the game has no doubt)

Floyd hasn't said hardly anything.
He's new.
He has...internal issues.
I have given him the benefit of the doubt.
Now I am not.

I fail to see why an "ISO" on me over Floyd is vote-worthy. You are wasting your time with that.

[Marmot]

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

He specifically made mention that he would be absent that Night. I think that's important evidence. It's the same thing I looked for a long time ago when you said you were going camping. It didn't clear you, but I still looked.

Nobody was missing from the poll Day 6. There's another power not in effect Night 5.

That could have been blocked and the host post would have made no mention of it. The simplest explanation is that Psycho Killer missed his PM that Night.

The simplest explanation is that TheFloyd73 didn't have the opportunity to send in a PM because he was traveling.

That's Occam's Razor.

K.

So why are you voting for him instead of the top priority of mafia?

[Matt]

A gun to head read has literally TWO options -- good or bad. You clearly play with a mindset of certainty, as you've just evidenced again with this incorrect pairing of Epi and I, and it is nothing like my own methods. You are not interpreting my reads progressions as I have intended them to be interpreted and there's nothing more I can do to explain myself. I'm focusing on my review.

True, but your rainbow read had 6 options and you also urged Sorsha to reconsider her stance on thinking Floyd was town, and you suspected seaside for believing Floyd was town.

I didn't exaggerate it, I simply found it in your ISO.

Anyway, will be keeping my vote on Epignosis unless there is a competition near the end of the day and I want to contribute. I strongly encourage all players to review my ISO of Epignosis/Floyd, and consider the weirdness between Epignosis and 3J today.

Linki - Epignosis, do you find it suspicious that you appear to be doing exactly what 3J thinks the Mafia is doing, yet he is hesitant to vote for you because of your suspecting Floyd (again everyone has suspected Floyd no doubt so this "reasoning" is lame, IMO) ?

[Epignosis]

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

He specifically made mention that he would be absent that Night. I think that's important evidence. It's the same thing I looked for a long time ago when you said you were going camping. It didn't clear you, but I still looked.

Nobody was missing from the poll Day 6. There's another power not in effect Night 5.

That could have been blocked and the host post would have made no mention of it. The simplest explanation is that Psycho Killer missed his PM that Night.

The simplest explanation is that TheFloyd73 didn't have the opportunity to send in a PM because he was traveling.

That's Occam's Razor.

K.

So why are you voting for him instead of the top priority of mafia?

Who is Mafia?

[Epignosis]

Linki - Epignosis, do you find it suspicious that you appear to be doing exactly what 3J thinks the Mafia is doing, yet he is hesitant to vote for you because of your suspecting Floyd (again everyone has suspected Floyd no doubt so this "reasoning" is lame, IMO) ?

No, Matt, I don't find what I'm doing suspicious.

[Matt]

Linki - Epignosis, do you find it suspicious that you appear to be doing exactly what 3J thinks the Mafia is doing, yet he is hesitant to vote for you because of your suspecting Floyd (again everyone has suspected Floyd no doubt so this "reasoning" is lame, IMO) ?

No, Matt, I don't find what I'm doing suspicious.

I knew you would say that. I knew it.

I meant 3J. Do you?

[Matt]

Linki - Epignosis, do you find it suspicious that you appear to be doing exactly what 3J thinks the Mafia is doing, yet he is hesitant to vote for you because of your suspecting Floyd (again everyone has suspected Floyd no doubt so this "reasoning" is lame, IMO) ?

No, Matt, I don't find what I'm doing suspicious.

I knew you would say that. I knew it.

I meant 3J. Do you?

And in case you "misunderstand" me again, I meant do YOU find 3J suspicious?

[Marmot]

Floyd also didn't post Night 1.

Or Night 3.

He specifically made mention that he would be absent that Night. I think that's important evidence. It's the same thing I looked for a long time ago when you said you were going camping. It didn't clear you, but I still looked.

Nobody was missing from the poll Day 6. There's another power not in effect Night 5.

That could have been blocked and the host post would have made no mention of it. The simplest explanation is that Psycho Killer missed his PM that Night.

The simplest explanation is that TheFloyd73 didn't have the opportunity to send in a PM because he was traveling.

That's Occam's Razor.

K.

So why are you voting for him instead of the top priority of mafia?

Who is Mafia?

Russtifinko.

[Epignosis]

Linki - Epignosis, do you find it suspicious that you appear to be doing exactly what 3J thinks the Mafia is doing, yet he is hesitant to vote for you because of your suspecting Floyd (again everyone has suspected Floyd no doubt so this "reasoning" is lame, IMO) ?

No, Matt, I don't find what I'm doing suspicious.

I knew you would say that. I knew it.

I meant 3J. Do you?

And in case you "misunderstand" me again, I meant do YOU find 3J suspicious?

You are asking me, Epignosis, if I, Epignosis, find 3J, JaggedJimmyJay, suspicious.

Is this correct.

Nod once for yes, twice for no.