[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Marmot]

I'd just like to thank the hosts for not including resurrection in this game (unless it just hasn't been seen yet). I hate resurrection in Mafia. :P

I think the fact that there is spectator chat guarantees that no one will be rezzed.

[Ricochet]

Thoughts, Rico?

That's my point. I don't think Diiny deliberately allowed his near-lynch to happen without interference because he'd never do that as any alignment -- town, mafia, or SK. I think he was literally not available to influence the ordeal at all.

I understand what you meant better now. I still could use a confirmation from Diiny that he was in full blackout (although, requesting this in retrospect could easily influence him to give a "right" answer, in case he's mafia or SK, lol, so I'd better just check it for myself).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To be honest, if it came down to three players in LyLo, you, me, and anybody else (even Ricochet), I would almost undoubtedly vote for you.

If you're town I truly pray you reconsider that mindset. I expect to be in LyLo unless the rest of you actively prevent it. This isn't some WIFOM crap, this is just reality.

[RadicalFuzz]

Jay, I'll entertain your notion that RadicalFuzz and Bullzeye are mafia. I noticed this post from RadicalFuzz on Night 5.

Bullzeye, if you're still here, how have my posts in the last hour changed your opinion of me? Feel free to do a simple before and after analysis instead of a short answer. I'll read it.

Fuzz asks Bullzeye to analyze Fuzz's recent posts and explain why his opinion has changed. Looking at Bullzeye's posts, he did not mention any change in heart on RadicalFuzz, or any read of Fuzz at all. Here is Bullzeye's response.

I don't know that they've had any impact at all to be honest. I've never suspected you regardless. I actually have a fairly good vibe about you, I think you've been making good efforts to get involved and find baddies. I might not always think you're right, but as of now I haven't seen a reason to think you're bad yet.

Link to the start of the conversation. RadicalFuzz is forcing Bullzeye to take a stance on him, and Bullzeye does. But RadicalFuzz's approach to Bullzeye isn't consistent with what was stated before.

My approach to Bullzeye isn't consistent with what that was stated before?

[Marmot]

Of the two, which do you find more suspicious MM?

RadicalFuzz. I think that particular conversation looks bad for both of them, and there are other factors with regards to RadicalFuzz that I/you/somebody has brought up before. The CFD. The Floyd slip.

Like I said, RadicalFuzz asked Bullzeye why Bullzeye's opinion of him changed, and Bullzeye had never stated an original opinion of Fuzz to begin with, late alone changed a previous one. Bullzeye's answer is not great, but I still think that RadicalFuzz put words into Bullzeye's mouth there, and forced Bullzeye to take a stance. It is consistent with RadicalFuzz's intent on someone reading him as bad though, I will admit that.

Linki: Fuzz, you asked Bullzeye "How have my posts changed your opinion of me" when Bullzeye did not have an opinion of you. Can you explain the meaning of that statement?

[Marmot]

To be honest, if it came down to three players in LyLo, you, me, and anybody else (even Ricochet), I would almost undoubtedly vote for you.

If you're town I truly pray you reconsider that mindset. I expect to be in LyLo unless the rest of you actively prevent it. This isn't some WIFOM crap, this is just reality.

You're right, it is a terrible mindset, and I'll try not to hold onto that idea.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Another general question to everyone: who do you think is the low-hanging fruit?

By that I mean: who is the player who seems the most damned in terms of evidence and/or play style but will end up flipping town?

For me: motel room.

[Marmot]

Actually, I would tinfoil Strawhenge as mafia as well.

I'd list Bullzeye as low-hanging fruit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Actually, I would tinfoil Strawhenge as mafia as well.

What makes you say so?

[RadicalFuzz]

Not sure who the low-hanging fruit is. I can't answer myself without being biased.

MM I assumed that he had an opinion of me, even if it was founded on a single point. I find it difficult to imagine, for me, a position where I have literally no opinion of someone, however relevant it is.

[Marmot]

Actually, I would tinfoil Strawhenge as mafia as well.

What makes you say so?

His output has steadily dropped. His propositions prove to be both unfounded and increasingly less accurate, his pursuit and read of me aside. I have seen flashes of a civilian Strawhenge, namely his case on Floyd on Day 7 (or was it Day 8).

And he is a consensus townread, but his behavior lately has not been pro-town. I acknowledge he is burning out, but I can still tinfoil.

[Marmot]

Not sure who the low-hanging fruit is. I can't answer myself without being biased.

MM I assumed that he had an opinion of me, even if it was founded on a single point. I find it difficult to imagine, for me, a position where I have literally no opinion of someone, however relevant it is.

There were 23 players alive at the time. You and Bullzeye each had a late start to the game. I don't think it is surprising that players would not have an opinion on everyone. Would you say that you had an opinion of everyone at the time?

[Marmot]

Also, taking a look back at my ISO of interactions of RadicalFuzz with MacDougall, it took a long time for RadicalFuzz to voice an opinion of MacDougall, even with all of the interactions they had exhibited. It took Mac taking 4 votes and leading the lynch 4-2 (4-2 over a teammate, 4-1 over anyone else) before RadicalFuzz offered a reason for lynching Mac. Still, as I pointed out then, Fuzz never voted for Mac.

Why didn't you vote for Mac on Day 6, RadicalFuzz?

[RadicalFuzz]

Of players that I saw a post of, yes. It could be a completely irrelevant opinion, such as "Wow, MM has either won more games than others or is proud of them" or something more important such as "J3 posts a lot"

Because I thought his reaction to Matt's SK theory looked good. To me that read as someone who was not overly worried about dying. I interpreted that as a non-Mafia mindset.

Does nobody else have an opinion of MM's word usage when referring to a cleared civilian?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yet another general question:

What do you all personally feel is the thing that should best evidence that you are town? What can you boast about your post history that might be inspired?

[Marmot]

I think my play on Day 6 is my best support.

[Marmot]

Does nobody else have an opinion of MM's word usage when referring to a cleared civilian?

Who's a cleared civilian?

[RadicalFuzz]

The multiple players that have townread me for the majority, if not all, of their lifespans.

Nobody is cleared, MM, my apologies for the error. The post that I'm referring to is where you use the word "dismiss" when talking about a player that you have a strong town read on. We've been over this already, I'm curious on the others' perceptions.

[Marmot]

The multiple players that have townread me for the majority, if not all, of their lifespans.

Nobody is cleared, MM, my apologies for the error. The post that I'm referring to is where you use the word "dismiss" when talking about a player that you have a strong town read on. We've been over this already, I'm curious on the others' perceptions.

I did not have a strong townread on Choutas though. Why do you continue to say that I did?

[Ricochet]

Hunting Mac and reading into mafia interactions between the dead and the ones still out there, until my brain melts, should be the two things to place me into town camp, I'd say.

[Marmot]

The multiple players that have townread me for the majority, if not all, of their lifespans.

Nobody is cleared, MM, my apologies for the error. The post that I'm referring to is where you use the word "dismiss" when talking about a player that you have a strong town read on. We've been over this already, I'm curious on the others' perceptions.

I did not have a strong townread on Choutas though. Why do you continue to say that I did?

Here was my latest rainbow list before the comment you speak of RadicalFuzz. I'm not gonna pull more quotes than that, but my opinions are there. I did not have a strong townread of Choutas, and actually considered him as one of my top suspects.

[Ricochet]

The dismiss thing felt semanticky in my books, somewhere on the thin line of "why couldn't he have used a better word than dismiss for those thoughts" and having a small weird vibe about such wording. But I don't think wording sussing has gotten us mafia at any point (remember sig being hunted for his "kinda", "sorta"?), so I'm not sure it'd weigh too much here as well.

[RadicalFuzz]

MM your theory about me bussing teammates is wrong. You must have mistaken me with RDW who has bussed at least a dozen of players. I've never bussed someone and even if I did buss someday somehow I doubt I'd go full retard and buss half the team if I were scum.
Fwiw I was a member of the only perfect mafia win where we won without losing a single member. We could have bussed a teammate at the endgame but we decided to push for a townie lynch even harder and claim a perfect win.
This not me. Choutas doesn't roll like that.

That certainly stands in your favor.

But I can't just dismiss you as civilian because of that.

Linki:

Metalmarsh I'm not saying you had a town read on Choutas. If you think I did please quote it so I can clear up the misunderstanding because this is getting aggravating.

The only thing I'm talking about is your usage of the word "dismiss" here. It reads as if, in a world where you believe a player to be civilian, you wave them away and focus on other things. I don't like that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have another proposition that I cannot explore myself right now, but I will soon: Rico's angle for figuring out what to do with the LC voters has left us with a motel room / Russtifinko dichotomy (and me if you desire to make it a trichotomy).

Russ and motel room have been at each other's throats for a while. Reviewing their engagement should shed light on which one is a better candidate. Right now my gut is telling me that we've been giving Russ too much credit for his LC vote (I'd have had no qualms making that vote as LC's team mate to be frank) and that he's been coasting on it for a long while. I'll have to look into what they've been putting in the thread in relation to one another to decide if my gut read holds though.

For now I'm off to see 007. I don't know why. Action movies usually suck.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When I read that MM post, the bit that stands out to me most isn't "dismiss", but rather "That certainly stands in your favor". It's a bit awkward for MM to even acknowledge Choutas's huge pile of self-meta as being relevant to anything.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey everyone else, please answer my questions. I have something in mind here.

Everybody: can you share your tinfoil reads?

If you're not sure what I mean by that, I mean pick the player who you're most concerned is mafia because he will be a very difficult lynch and/or is a consensus town read?

For me: Ricochet.

Another general question to everyone: who do you think is the low-hanging fruit?

By that I mean: who is the player who seems the most damned in terms of evidence and/or play style but will end up flipping town?

For me: motel room.

Yet another general question:

What do you all personally feel is the thing that should best evidence that you are town? What can you boast about your post history that might be inspired?

Okay I'm seriously leaving now.

[Marmot]

The multiple players that have townread me for the majority, if not all, of their lifespans.

Nobody is cleared, MM, my apologies for the error. The post that I'm referring to is where you use the word "dismiss" when talking about a player that you have a strong town read on. We've been over this already, I'm curious on the others' perceptions.

Here is where you state that I am talking about a player that I have a strong townread on. I did not have a townread on him as I continue to point out.

MM your theory about me bussing teammates is wrong. You must have mistaken me with RDW who has bussed at least a dozen of players. I've never bussed someone and even if I did buss someday somehow I doubt I'd go full retard and buss half the team if I were scum.
Fwiw I was a member of the only perfect mafia win where we won without losing a single member. We could have bussed a teammate at the endgame but we decided to push for a townie lynch even harder and claim a perfect win.
This not me. Choutas doesn't roll like that.

That certainly stands in your favor.

But I can't just dismiss you as civilian because of that.

Linki:

Metalmarsh I'm not saying you had a town read on Choutas. If you think I did please quote it so I can clear up the misunderstanding because this is getting aggravating.

The only thing I'm talking about is your usage of the word "dismiss" here. It reads as if, in a world where you believe a player to be civilian, you wave them away and focus on other things. I don't like that.

I get it. But I said that I can't just dismiss my read of him. Operative word being "can't".



Do you think I'm bad or not? I believe you are trying to paint me as bad for verbage, rather than for behavior.

Linki: I took it at face-value Jay. Not because it was self-meta, but because he had brought it up before and no one denied, making it sound sincere. I also had no interest in digging for the meta at that time.

[RadicalFuzz]

English is hard. My bad MM. I think you're very bad, yes. Or at the very least you're playing your own game in a method that makes me feel used, and I don't like that.

J3 I'll put them all in this post for you:
Tinfoil read - You're scum
Low-hanging fruit - Me
Town Evidence - Near unanimous townreads on me for large parts of the game

[DrWilgy]

Stuck in a gas station because the roads are flooded!!!

DX

Someone put me down!!

[Tangrowth]

Stuck in a gas station because the roads are flooded!!!

DX

Someone put me down!!

!!

I was wondering how Austin and Houston were fairing. The downpour the first half of today in San Antonio was unreal.

Wishing the best of luck! Hopefully it'll pass soon.

[RadicalFuzz]

Don't die Wilgy. We're going to add Rivals to Greensleeves and I need someone to play with.

Austin and Houston were doing horribly last weekend, this weekend's going a bit better here in Houston at least.

[Tangrowth]

Don't die Wilgy. We're going to add Rivals to Greensleeves and I need someone to play with.

Austin and Houston were doing horribly last weekend, this weekend's going a bit better here in Houston at least.

Last weekend was pretty ominous here as well, especially Saturday. I'm ready for it to be over!

[Ricochet]

Take care, Wilgsy!

[Tangrowth]

Night 10 post coming shortly.

[Tangrowth]

Night 10: Put Down the Henge

Night 10 has ended.

Strawhenge has been killed by Psycho Killer.

It is now Day 11. You have 72 hours to lynch someone.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

At this point I think the SK is rooting for the mafia to win, unless I was very wrong about Strawhenge.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

motel room not in the poll.

[DrWilgy]

I made it to Houston everyone!!! Yaaay!!

Rico, who is not the SK?

[Ricochet]

RIP Straw

3 players killed by the SK, during which the civilians only had one lynch to make use off

OP as fark if you ask me

motel room not in the poll.

Well I sure hope River knows what he was doing with his options. A Mafia getting random amnesty at this stage can be disastruous already.

linki: I don't think I understand the question, Wilgz.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

5 vs 3 vs 1 is essentially LyLo for town barring a lucky break.

6 vs 2 vs 1 is still a tall order.

7 vs 1 vs 1 is unlikely enough that I don't care about the existence of the possibility.

We have to get this lynch right, and that means cooperation in organizing it. I think we need a decisive final tally.

[Marmot]

RadicalFuzz

I'll start things off with a vote.

[Ricochet]

"Let's cooperate, everyone!"

"Righty-o. *votes*"

[Marmot]

Votes are changeable, why wait until the final 3 hours?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't have any issue with votes being used now -- we just can't afford to fall into complacent tally arrangements that lead to shenanigan-compatible end results 72 hours from now.

METALMARSH89, you've been completely willing to agree with everything I say (or at least acknowledge that I make good points) in recent phases except for the most crucial point of last phase: Choutas as a town read.

[Ricochet]

Bullzeye and Diiny didn't post on Night 10, what can we make off that?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think my play on Day 6 is my best support.

What about your Day 6 play do you stand on?

[Strawhenge]

Oh sweet release...

Good luck, town!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bullzeye and Diiny didn't post on Night 10, what can we make off that?

I'm hesitant to make anything of it. It just takes a PM. This angle made sense for Night 5 when there was seemingly no kill attempt, but not really now in my opinion.

[Marmot]

I don't have any issue with votes being used now -- we just can't afford to fall into complacent tally arrangements that lead to shenanigan-compatible end results 72 hours from now.

METALMARSH89, you've been completely willing to agree with everything I say (or at least acknowledge that I make good points) in recent phases except for the most crucial point of last phase: Choutas as a town read.

I did not agree completely with everything you said. I did agree willingingly (wouldn't have had it any other way) with some of the things you said. And when did you have Choutas as a town read?

[Marmot]

Bullzeye and Diiny didn't post on Night 10, what can we make off that?

I'm hesitant to make anything of it. It just takes a PM. This angle made sense for Night 5 when there was seemingly no kill attempt, but not really now in my opinion.

Diiny is online right now.