[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Epignosis]

Epignosis - Unlike what others have suggested, I don't see anything abnormal about Epi's behavior in this game. However if you are town as I think you are Epi, you should town harder, not just for our sake but yours.

If that's what you want- and this may seem counterintuitive to our foreign brethren- then stop with the keyboard diarrhea. I don't mean you personally, Zebra, please don't think that- just in general. I work full time, have three kids that need punishment regularly, cook every night, record music, write books, read the news, and lose money on fantasy football. I'm trying, dude.

Russtifinko - I sense a baddie here.

I do too. He used manipulative language when he provided his analysis of events I am not sure he understood or processed.

I demand a list of reads from all players. I know mine's prettyintricate, detailed, and cohesive, but yours doesn't have to be quite so professional.

Demand all you like. You won't get that shit from me. Not in technicolor rainbows. Not in grainy black and white.

[Strawhenge]

I'm not sure if putting in the work to show another player how many times they've been town is a misguided supertown move or a scummy misdirecty sorta move. Like, I'm of two minds.

[Epignosis]

I wouldn't kill k4j for two reasons:

1) I would appreciate the challenge of outsmarting him. Turning the tables and getting him lynched instead...assuming I thought he was bad, which I did.

2) I haven't seen k4j in a month of Sundays. No, I wouldn't kill him.

Who would I kill?

I'd probably kill 3J. I have never been on the other end of his civiliansanity, and I don't know if I'd last.

I'm not sure #1 meshes with your reason for hypothetically killing me. You'd appreciate the challenge of outsmarting one player, but bypass the challenge of outsmarting a different player? I doubt I bring anything to the table that you'd be so inclined to avoid.

My remark was a tongue-in-cheek way of saying I'd never get a word in edge-wise.

[Strawhenge]

brb pizza date with pretty girl, I'll talk to you guys later tonight.

[seaside]

I can't quote properly.

But guide to seaside being town/scum.

Seems scum = town
Seems town = scum

[Diiny]

I'm not sure if putting in the work to show another player how many times they've been town is a misguided supertown move or a scummy misdirecty sorta move. Like, I'm of two minds.

To me it reads like something I was very consciously doing in my last (only) scum game; making it very obvious that I was doing a lot of work. Honestly one of my biggest friends with this was formatting. Epi could've just said "yeah I checked and I was town with you twice, in game x and y"; that's all I can see a town player needing to do. Of course, it could be flair. I'm not familiar with epi at all, and there's players who use a bit of flair regardless of alignment. Just sharing my ping.

[Diiny]

I can't quote properly.

But guide to seaside being town/scum.

Seems scum = town
Seems town = scum

Isn't it a bit early for the 'seaside meta wifom' game?

Seaside

[seaside]

Nah bruv

[Epignosis]

RDW is...?

[motel room]

I can't quote properly.

But guide to seaside being town/scum.

Seems scum = town
Seems town = scum

maybe if someone else brought it up

[Epignosis]

Why so confident in sig?

He's giving me the same vibes I got from him in the Frisky Dingo game here, where he was town.

Point of clarification: sig wasn't a civilian- he was a Celestial independent.

RIP K4J and HamburgerBoy.

It's not...yesterday...anymore.

Lots to catch up on, it seems, but I have to study and have some appointments during the next hours.

From the BWT voters, I have some issues with a few, namely Wilgy, b24, sig.

For I may have said myself before about B24's vote, notably him adding a lot of suspicion parameters, besides the "easy vote" part, that aren't clear to me, at least.

And I may have told myself: Wilgy's vote was first, so I doubt it could have influenced the outcome much, but it gives me strange vibe of being a vote planted in the nest and left there. He criticised BWT's as well as my claims of different gameplay once the game started rolling, but he felt satisfied with my explanations, yet kept the suss on BWT. Furthermore, he said he awaited more info or thoughts from BWT himself (which BWT offered, afterwards), but then didn't return for the last 12 hours of the phase. 

And I may have found myself thinking sig's vote for BWT was self-defense - or at least thinking this way because of someone labeling it as such (Golden?) - but it turns out it was a vote based on other's arguments and on BWT being his most suspicious player. Yet I see no traces of BWT growing as a suspect to him. Plus, from his posts, I rather get the feel LC would have qualified as more suspicious overall (on whom he held off voting, preferring BWT instead). 

I also may have noted to myself that, although I don't disagree with the fact that BWT made some uninspired D0/Dusk0 moves (hence I don't disagree with this vote for BWT per se), I found Matt to be, except for something about an exchange between Zebra and Roxy, fixated on D0/DU0 issues, rather than the present time. Not sure what to make of this.

---

As for right now, I find you may ask yourself: what's up with MM voting first (again) and why seaside?

And you may ask yourself: what's up with Floyd voting Ace and saying nothing? Is it true that it's his first game ever? Is he familiarized with the procedures, at least? I can understand the anxiety of participating in such a large game, but I still don't know what to make of his ghost vote moves, since he isn't saying anything about them.

And yes, I may find myself that everyone "town reading" him for as little as this should explain why. Let's not turn this into a running joke for this game, without getting some explanations as well.

This is one big ass post full of nothing. You have acknowledged every side of every coin without expressing an opinion yourself.

I'm inclined to believe that your goal is to maintain focus on broad array of people without taking a stand against any particular one of them.

[thellama73]

I think the K4J kill was more likely to come from an RYMer than a Syndicater, so I will concentrate my attentions there.

Guys, my eye is twitching uncontrollably. Violently. I don't know what's...I can't...

Llama, how did you come to this conclusion? Why wouldn't a Syndicat—you know, such as yourself for instance :o—kill k4j?

Because, being a Syndicator myself, I know how we think. I can't think of a fellow site member who would go for K4J first. It seems too random. It's just a hunch of course, but that's the assumption I'm going to operate under for now.

[thellama73]

I think the K4J kill was more likely to come from an RYMer than a Syndicater, so I will concentrate my attentions there.

Something about your posts today feel a little staged/rehearsed however you want to put it.

Thank you. I like to be well-prepared.

[Epignosis]

I'm not sure if putting in the work to show another player how many times they've been town is a misguided supertown move or a scummy misdirecty sorta move. Like, I'm of two minds.

I like making people look like they don't know what they're talking about.

Hello, I'm Epignosis.

[thellama73]

Hello, I'm Epignosis.

Hi, Epignosis. How are you?

[Epignosis]

Hello, I'm Epignosis.

Hi, Epignosis. How are you?

Tired. You?

[thellama73]

Hello, I'm Epignosis.

Hi, Epignosis. How are you?

Tired. You?

Also tired. I basically just got home from work, and I have to be on radio at 7:30 tomorrow morning to talk about the education secretary.

[Epignosis]

Hello, I'm Epignosis.

Hi, Epignosis. How are you?

Tired. You?

Also tired. I basically just got home from work, and I have to be on radio at 7:30 tomorrow morning to talk about the education secretary.

The new boss or the old boss? I'll spare you what The Who had to say about it.

[Epignosis]

To sum up:

Guys from The Syndicate who have names starting with "R" are my top suspects.

[thellama73]

Hello, I'm Epignosis.

Hi, Epignosis. How are you?

Tired. You?

Also tired. I basically just got home from work, and I have to be on radio at 7:30 tomorrow morning to talk about the education secretary.

The new boss or the old boss? I'll spare you what The Who had to say about it.

I used that exact quote in the article I wrote on the subject.

[MacDougall]

Seaside is either scum or a liability that we can't take further into the game.

[Golden]

Just putting a vote on brian at least to clearly indicate he is my top suspicion right now.

[sig]

@Jay thank you for responding.

Seasides post are just so scummy that it makes me think he is a civilian. I don't plan to vote for him at this point, Floyd posted in green then nothing.....I could very well vote for him maybe enough votes will actually get him posting.

My top suspect at this point is Long Con, his attack on bea seemed really well real, but even then he kept his options opened enough to switch off that wagon and vote for someone else, me. His defense for why he targeted bea seems like a prepared remark in case he had to switch and vote for someone else.

What I don't understand are these posts.

This was why he voted for me, notice the end of his post were he mentions bea this again seems fake.

LC's vote for Bea did strike me as fake...

I have to get ready and leave for work soon, so it's time to cast a real vote. The bea vote was actually fake. I thought, since votes are changeable, I'd make a fake case and see if I could catch any opportunistic baddies trying to latch on to it and follow the vote. It didn't really bear fruit; looking over BWT's reasons for voting bea, he is coming from a completely different angle. The truth is, bea's behaviour is pretty normal for her, and I don't suspect her much at all.

My real vote today will go to sig. Despite the reasonable explanation he had for my original suspicion of him (that he was crafting his posts too much, in a baddie way), I've found a few of his reactions suspicious. His reaction that I was "distancing" from him when I forgot he was the third player involved in an earlier discussion was bizarre, as was his assertion that I (and others) are "desperate to try and get him lynched".

sig, saying we're desperate to try and get you lynched strikes me in two ways, neither of them making me feel comfortable about you. On one hand, it's overdefensive and paranoid, and on the other, it's a way to buffalo us out of voting for you... because who wants to looks "desperate" to lynch someone on Day 1?

It's not much, but it's the behaviour I found most suspicious today, and it's time for me to lock in a vote.

Sorry for using you, bea!

Okay here is his reasoning for lynching me early that phase this is the defense I used and here he says my explanation was good.

...I understand it is Day 1 and we have little to go on but this seems kinda very weak.

Not sure how I feel about Rbz's theory, however, if you are civ, then shouldn't this read "...but this IS very weak" as opposed to "seems" and "kinda" ?

Also It could read is very weak, but it isn't very weak it just seems kinda weak. Writing is very weak is more confrontation in my opinion as well as implying it was meant to be weak. While seems kinda weak is just that is seems weak but it might not be.

This is quibbling over something very small, why if I'm civ would I right it the first way instead of the second way?

This might be small, but I've seen people get lynched for wordplay on Day 1 enough in the past.

Same as it ever was.

I agree, in that Mafia have more need to "craft" their posts than Civvies. Sig's accidental reveal that he was going back over his post before posting it to make sure it's just right is a little suspicious to me.

I always read through my posts as I'm sure you've seen my spelling and grammar skills aren't always the best when typing, especially when I type quickly. It seems as if your trying to find more reasons to find me suspicious, I've played as mafia before and while I'm not great I wouldn't have done something quite so stupid.

This is also all in regards to my wording of Seems/Kinda/Very which I've already said was a mistake on my part. This seems to me to be a desperate attempt to get me lynched.

That's an extreme thing to say. Personally, I'm neither trying to get you lynched, nor am I desperate to do so.

Your explanation as to why you would be going back over your posts makes a lot of sense to me. I have indeed noticed that your spelling and grammar skills are not the best, and I wish to correct errors every single time, but I have learned over time that it's just not worth it. Except it's "you're". Sorry!

Then we have this.

Sorry to see you go, BWT. Now Rico will just run away with the contest.

Straw - To me, it sounded off. "Kinda" and "very" don't go together IMO, in fact, I've never heard anyone utter "I had a kinda very good day" or "My meal was kinda very good", so I questioned him on it. It wasn't a strong ping, but it was there.

But sig explained that. He had originally done "I had a very good day" but edited it after first typing it because he liked "I had a kinda good day" better. Only he mistakenly left it as "I had a kinda very good day". I don't really see any more reasonable and understandable explanation than that one, and I believe it is true.

That said, you getting a ping from him typing "kinda very" makes me wonder. Is it a phony ping? Maybe you could explain how this mistake made you suspicious that sig was a member of the baddie team, because I'm having a disconnect about it.

So Long Con did you change your mind and think I'm a civilian why are you know defending me when you sighted this as one (even if it was a minor reason) for your vote yesterday?

This is making me more suspicious of you then when you were trying to get me lynched. It seems like a quick turn around

linki: MacDougall why is he a liability?
Golden who is brian and why is he your top suspect?

[MacDougall]

Why is he a liability?

Because;

a) If he's town, scum won't kill him because he's attracting all the attention
b) If he is town and around at lylo he's gonna lose us the game

Coupled with the fact that he's talking shit and generally not really trying... It's a no brainer lynch.

So, I would be working on the fact that we'll be lynching him today and focus efforts away from him in terms of scum hunting because in my mind I can't see anybody else getting lynched or any reason to lynch anyone over him.

[Tangrowth]

Well, sanmateo still hasn't shown up, so he is being forcibly replaced.

[Tangrowth]

Effective immediately, Bullzeye has replaced sanmateo.

[Sorsha]

Seaside is either scum or a liability that we can't take further into the game.

Are you actually suspicious of him?

[MacDougall]

Seaside is either scum or a liability that we can't take further into the game.

Are you actually suspicious of him?

I don't know what to think of him.

[seaside]

U prefer a lurker? They are a hundred times more dangerous than me. I can help town win. Lurker can't do a thing! I already said some helpful things. Wink wink nudge nudge.

[Strawhenge]

Voting Seaside until I can get something more believable re: Floyd than, 'Take it however you want to take it.' ._.

Like, obviously don't infodump, but right now it reads like you slipped up in voicing outright confidence in Floyd--who, at the time, had said almost nothing in this game--and have since adhered to it with an air of mystery to make it seem like you have a power role or something.

Also really not liking llama and Epi's responses to me. sirengiffy at best.

[Strawhenge]

llama's response reads as, 'Trust me because trust me.' The we wouldn't kill k4j stance is a big ol' sifter of WIFOM and I don't like it one bit. Why would anybody have any reason not to kill any player as scum? Roles, yes. Players in the context of the game, yes. But players on the whole? That's like saying, 'Oh, we wouldn't kill HamburgerBoy, because scum-RYMers never kill HamburgerBoy.' That just makes no sense. That's basically admitting that Syndicat scum teams aren't great at their job if there are certain players they never kill.

Epignosis's response just doesn't sound like a productive outlook. This is out of context because I'm not used to playing with you guys, but on the onset this, I like making people look like they don't know what they're talking about sentiment is like saying that you want to undermine people's convictions and confuse people. Which is what scum want. Scum don't want people to feel certainty.

[seaside]

Man, nobody likes a bogan

[Sorsha]

Two players I'm considering voting for so far:
Mac:
I don't like Mac going for seaside for the simple fact that he doesn't want him in the game. Seaside came in day one voicing suspicion of Mac so this just seems like a delayed no u/omgus. Long Con made a couple good points earlier about some things Mac said yesterday late in the lynch also. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd go back and get the quote) Mac was also on HBs rainbow list in yellow so I could see Mac trying to take him out before HB had more of a chance to look closer at him.
Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

Going to put my vote on Mac for the time being.

[Sorsha]

Man, nobody likes a bogan

What's a bogan?

[Strawhenge]

Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

What posts suggest this? I've been wary of Seaside from the start. His unabashed dodginess with almost every question anyone asks him is suspect as fuhhh.

[Strawhenge]

Man, nobody likes a bogan

What's a bogan?

Bogan is as bogan does.

[FZ.]

Excuse me for not buying Epi's claim that he wouldn't kill him. Never on this site, have I seen someone get lynched after the person who suspected them got NK. It always goes the WIFOM way, and people just ignore the dead people's thoughts. This doesn't mean it has to be Epi, but there were so many people to frame here, I don't see why anyone would go for Epi of all of them, especially when we all know it's not going to lead to anything.
Not many people here have played with K4J and know how good of a player he is to want to take him down. I know Roxy knows him, but I'm getting a civvie feeling from her. Some of the syndicaters have played with him a few games, but other than Epi, who already felt K4J's suspicions in the card against humanity game, I don't know who else would think to kill him.

Well, of course you don't. Believing that I wouldn't kill k4j Night 1 when I haven't played with him in a long time, and enjoyed being bad with him one time when I did, would be detrimental to your opinion of me.

Question to those who have been bad with Epi: Does he really tend to not kill those suspecting him for the sake of trying to outsmart them, or is he lying about that?

While I appreciate the thoroughness, that's the wrong question to ask. Did anyone even answer this question?

There's no tendency to this. That's because my opinion on whom to kill would depend on the person suspecting me. Tangling with k4j would have been fun. I like fun. There are people in games that just...don't get lynched early, like, ever. Nobody suspects them even if they murdered your grandmother's lover in real life with your grandmother's own snuff can. Me? I would take that person out in a heartbeat because trying to get a lynch going that way is next to impossible and makes you look bad for even trying.

And I would really appreciate it if people stopped ignoring my suspicion of Epi. At least the syndicaters that are supposed to know what to expect from him. Has he really delivered in any sense so far? Every game I've played with him, and he was a civ, he'd manage to either annoy someone, get on their case, find some reason to make sure he's going after them.

The way you word this makes it sounds like you have extensive experience playing with me when I'm a civilian. I did the legwork:

The Shawshank Redemption - Host
WWE - Civilian
CAH - Mafia
Willow - Host
The Hobbit - Civilian
Are You Being Served? - Host
Monopoly - LMS-ish...not true Mafia, anyway
Cars - Host
Game of Champions, 2014 - Host
Donner Party - Roles changed around and I died very early
Death Note - Independent
Flash - Mafia, although I don't consider this setup Mafia at all
Biblical - Host
Bullets on Broadway - Civilian Killed Night 1 / Replaced in as Independent
Angry Birds - Host

So your experience with me consists of:

Three Civilian Epis
Two Mafia Epis
Two Independent Epis
Seven Host Epis ...thank you for your patronage.

My point in examining all of this is that your credibility about me as a civilian, which you attempt to establish in the above paragraph, is lacking. Beyond Night 1, you have played with me as a civilian all of two times.

1. excuse my accusation by making it something it wasn't and then playing ignorant to what I really meant (yes, I meant you being quiet is a bad thing in terms of alignment, not in terms of you not being a lousy civvie like any of us at times).
2. making long posts with multi quoting where he mostly addresses general comments like what is his opinion of lazy playing and other irrelevant topics.
3. Go after BWT's voters when it was an hour before deadline (way too late in my opinion) and comment about how he doesn't understand how BWT was the leading candidate, but not really offering any other solid option other than K4J and saying it was too late (which we know how that ended, by the way), and then voting for someone for the silliest reasons.

Is that all I've done?

I don't agree with point uno or dos. Nothing to say about those except that I don't agree with your assessment.

As for point tres, I had less than an hour to arrive at an informed opinion, and I had noticed that the bwt lynch votes were 1) from people largely unfamiliar with him, and 2) for stupid reasons. That gave me a point of focus late in the Day. Russ came in and made my vote easy though.

At least I really enjoy your posts when they come :P
This post and the one replying to zebra actually made me feel a little better about you. Just a little.
I will say though, that the number of games you play with someone is not an indicator of how well you are able to judge that person. I played one game with Sloonei here in which he was a civvie, and the next game I caught him as a baddie (on Rym), because to me, there was a big difference. I believe llama made the same impact on me on our first game together, such that the game after that, I thought he was a baddie from the start. Not trying to hoot my own horn, because we all know I can suck big time, but trying to discredit me because I only played 3 games with you as a civvie is not going to make your case better. If anything, I guess that the more I play with people, the more they manage to confuse me

[Sorsha]

Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

What posts suggest this? I've been wary of Seaside from the start. His unabashed dodginess with almost every question anyone asks him is suspect as fuhhh.

Since the start of what? Today? The game? (Sorry it's easier on a phone to just ask than go back and search myself)

[Sorsha]

Man, nobody likes a bogan

What's a bogan?

Bogan is as bogan does.

Ok thanks. Is that why everyone seems to be so against him? He reminds me of a guy who used to play with us on revolution mafia named wazzipi. He usually got heat for the same type of behavior and was usually civ.

[FZ.]

I'm not sure if putting in the work to show another player how many times they've been town is a misguided supertown move or a scummy misdirecty sorta move. Like, I'm of two minds.

I like making people look like they don't know what they're talking about.

Hello, I'm Epignosis.

You should get my vote just for that

So you are admitting to trying to "make me look" like I don't know what I'm talking about, when in fact, I'm spot on?

[Strawhenge]

Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

What posts suggest this? I've been wary of Seaside from the start. His unabashed dodginess with almost every question anyone asks him is suspect as fuhhh.

Since the start of what? Today? The game? (Sorry it's easier on a phone to just ask than go back and search myself)

Yeah, since he started posting a bunch of questions in the Day 0 thread. Like, right off the bat. It's weird that he was so active about talking to people in the Day 0 thread and now it's fizzled out to extremely veiled and almost disinterested terseness.

And no, nobody's after him because of any boganity.

[MacDougall]

Two players I'm considering voting for so far:
Mac:
I don't like Mac going for seaside for the simple fact that he doesn't want him in the game. Seaside came in day one voicing suspicion of Mac so this just seems like a delayed no u/omgus. Long Con made a couple good points earlier about some things Mac said yesterday late in the lynch also. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd go back and get the quote) Mac was also on HBs rainbow list in yellow so I could see Mac trying to take him out before HB had more of a chance to look closer at him.
Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

Going to put my vote on Mac for the time being.

I don't want him in the game because he's either scum or because he's disruptive to the scum hunt. He's the best lynch candidate for the day. Explain to me how that's not valid?

His suspicion of me was nothing tbh. I barely even considered it at the time let alone now.

I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you mean by the last bit? Setting him up for the kill? He's going to get lynched, why would anyone bother doing that?

Lynching seaside is a no brainer at this point. Most votes, most people interracted with so it leaves the best crumbs. Most people seem to harbour some doubt about him.

What's your read of seaside?

[FZ.]

Is Seaside a good player? How is he when he's bad?

I never get why people assume that the baddies would be that obvious about their alignment. If he's a good player, would you not expect him to at least try when he's a baddie? It doesn't look like he's trying much. and while I get MacDougal's fear that at some point Seaside may become a liability, we are very far from a lylo point, so I have to wonder if this is not a poor excuse to lynch someone without having to account for it.


linki: If most people seem to harbour some doubt about him, it means he leaves very little crumbs.

[Sorsha]

I'm thinking he's likely going to come back as civ if lynched. You and players from your forum know him better than I do so maybe you're right about him being a hindrance but I don't like that idea of lynching someone just because you don't like their play style.

And I did read LCs post on you and I do agree with it. You brought up low posters (you guys call them lurkers) very near the end of the lynch giving players an easy way to make their vote mean nothing.

How often does lynching a lurker work in finding a scum on your site?

[MacDougall]

Hard to say Sorsha. I haven't played on there in a long time. When I was playing we never actually go to lynch any because nobody ever listened to me hahah.

I remember modding games that were ruined by low content posters surviving to end game. Games that were otherwise really awesome.

Is Seaside a good player? How is he when he's bad?

I never get why people assume that the baddies would be that obvious about their alignment. If he's a good player, would you not expect him to at least try when he's a baddie? It doesn't look like he's trying much. and while I get MacDougal's fear that at some point Seaside may become a liability, we are very far from a lylo point, so I have to wonder if this is not a poor excuse to lynch someone without having to account for it.


linki: If most people seem to harbour some doubt about him, it means he leaves very little crumbs.

Yeah he's a good player sometimes. Sometimes he phones it in. I don't think he's trying to phone it in. I think he's struggling to bullshit adequately. If he was town he'd try less imo.

I don't think he's being obvious about his alignment either. I think it's very hard to tell how he is and it's very wifom.

If I had stronger scum reads, or if someone else made a decent case against someone in particular I'd be happy to keep seaside around. As it stands there's no stronger lynch candidate, we need to be confident about who we lynch because of a vote influencing scum role and we get rid of someone who is going to keep catching votes every round anyway, so why let it go on any longer and potentially cause problems late game?

[MacDougall]

I'm not sure how I'm really catching flak for this actually. Seaside was getting votes before I said anything. If I wanted him lynched and I was scum I could have just shut up and put attention elsewhere. As it stands I actually do think he's the best chance of flipping scum. Sometimes things ARE what they seem. Actually most of the time. It's called Occam's Razor.

I haven't really heard any good reasons why we shouldn't lynch him and we should instead lynch someone else.

You guys are coming across like scum players preparing for a town flip and planning your next townie lynch candidate.

[Long Con]

My top suspect at this point is Long Con, his attack on bea seemed really well real, but even then he kept his options opened enough to switch off that wagon and vote for someone else, me. His defense for why he targeted bea seems like a prepared remark in case he had to switch and vote for someone else.

What I don't understand are these posts.

This was why he voted for me, notice the end of his post were he mentions bea this again seems fake.

That's just like, your opinion, man.

LC's vote for Bea did strike me as fake...

I have to get ready and leave for work soon, so it's time to cast a real vote. The bea vote was actually fake. I thought, since votes are changeable, I'd make a fake case and see if I could catch any opportunistic baddies trying to latch on to it and follow the vote. It didn't really bear fruit; looking over BWT's reasons for voting bea, he is coming from a completely different angle. The truth is, bea's behaviour is pretty normal for her, and I don't suspect her much at all.

My real vote today will go to sig. Despite the reasonable explanation he had for my original suspicion of him (that he was crafting his posts too much, in a baddie way), I've found a few of his reactions suspicious. His reaction that I was "distancing" from him when I forgot he was the third player involved in an earlier discussion was bizarre, as was his assertion that I (and others) are "desperate to try and get him lynched".

sig, saying we're desperate to try and get you lynched strikes me in two ways, neither of them making me feel comfortable about you. On one hand, it's overdefensive and paranoid, and on the other, it's a way to buffalo us out of voting for you... because who wants to looks "desperate" to lynch someone on Day 1?

It's not much, but it's the behaviour I found most suspicious today, and it's time for me to lock in a vote.

Sorry for using you, bea!

Okay here is his reasoning for lynching me early that phase this is the defense I used and here he says my explanation was good.

Not sure how I feel about Rbz's theory, however, if you are civ, then shouldn't this read "...but this IS very weak" as opposed to "seems" and "kinda" ?

Also It could read is very weak, but it isn't very weak it just seems kinda weak. Writing is very weak is more confrontation in my opinion as well as implying it was meant to be weak. While seems kinda weak is just that is seems weak but it might not be.

This is quibbling over something very small, why if I'm civ would I right it the first way instead of the second way?

This might be small, but I've seen people get lynched for wordplay on Day 1 enough in the past.

Same as it ever was.

I agree, in that Mafia have more need to "craft" their posts than Civvies. Sig's accidental reveal that he was going back over his post before posting it to make sure it's just right is a little suspicious to me.

I always read through my posts as I'm sure you've seen my spelling and grammar skills aren't always the best when typing, especially when I type quickly. It seems as if your trying to find more reasons to find me suspicious, I've played as mafia before and while I'm not great I wouldn't have done something quite so stupid.

This is also all in regards to my wording of Seems/Kinda/Very which I've already said was a mistake on my part. This seems to me to be a desperate attempt to get me lynched.

That's an extreme thing to say. Personally, I'm neither trying to get you lynched, nor am I desperate to do so.

Your explanation as to why you would be going back over your posts makes a lot of sense to me. I have indeed noticed that your spelling and grammar skills are not the best, and I wish to correct errors every single time, but I have learned over time that it's just not worth it. Except it's "you're". Sorry!

Then we have this.

Sorry to see you go, BWT. Now Rico will just run away with the contest.

Straw - To me, it sounded off. "Kinda" and "very" don't go together IMO, in fact, I've never heard anyone utter "I had a kinda very good day" or "My meal was kinda very good", so I questioned him on it. It wasn't a strong ping, but it was there.

But sig explained that. He had originally done "I had a very good day" but edited it after first typing it because he liked "I had a kinda good day" better. Only he mistakenly left it as "I had a kinda very good day". I don't really see any more reasonable and understandable explanation than that one, and I believe it is true.

That said, you getting a ping from him typing "kinda very" makes me wonder. Is it a phony ping? Maybe you could explain how this mistake made you suspicious that sig was a member of the baddie team, because I'm having a disconnect about it.

So Long Con did you change your mind and think I'm a civilian why are you know defending me when you sighted this as one (even if it was a minor reason) for your vote yesterday?

This is making me more suspicious of you then when you were trying to get me lynched. It seems like a quick turn around

You can wave it off as "flip-flopping" as much as you like. I didn't think your "kinda very" was cause for suspicion. I did think the other things I noted about your posts were suspicious.

Like I said before, I'm not desperate to get you lynched. When I questioned Matt F about going after you for "kinda very", it wasn't about defending you, it was about verifying that his ping was genuine and not manufactured from something as flimsy as the missed word-deletion in your sentence.

Just because I find you suspicious, it doesn't mean that I'm going to attack from every angle and tunnel you with sketchy stuff.

[Long Con]

You guys are coming across like scum players preparing for a town flip and planning your next townie lynch candidate.

Which guys? Everyone who is suspicious of you?

[Sorsha]

I'm not sure how I'm really catching flak for this actually. Seaside was getting votes before I said anything. If I wanted him lynched and I was scum I could have just shut up and put attention elsewhere. As it stands I actually do think he's the best chance of flipping scum. Sometimes things ARE what they seem. Actually most of the time. It's called Occam's Razor.

I haven't really heard any good reasons why we shouldn't lynch him and we should instead lynch someone else.

You guys are coming across like scum players preparing for a town flip and planning your next townie lynch candidate.

No, I'm just more like... Weighing whether I think we should lynch him whether he's good or bad. More like a moral dilemma than anything else now that I see your point, I just think it's a little mean I guess.

[FZ.]

MacDougal, as much as I emphasize with your notion of lurkers and low posters ruining the game, if he is a civvie, lynching him will get us no where. If you have good reasons to call him bad, then give them to me. He's being very playful and uncaring. I'm trying to understand if it's something he'd do as a baddie. Being the competitive person that I am, I wouldn't just let people lynch me without a real fight no matter what side I was on, but I'd come closer to giving up as a civvie faster than I would as a baddie because I'd think: to hell with them, they deserve to lynch me and lose a civvie.

I'll admit, he isn't doing much of anything at this moment. I can see myself voting for him if you give me more reasons to see him as bad. I won't vote for him as a civvie who could later be a liability. At least not at this stage.

I'm going to go back and look at his posts.