Game of Champions 2022 mafia win lol

[Golden]

I mean, I kinda gotta shoot Rondo at this point.

I think I might shoot Rondo.

I would understand if you did but I would still laugh at you

Okay, I get it. You want to pretend like you don't want to be shot when really you care. Where does that leave me?

hehehehehe

Does anyone object?

Obviously me plus if you kill me then my last will and testiment is they kill you and that will just ruin the game so you better not

For someone who thinks Seanzie dying will ruin the game you're sure voting for him.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall You were the one who originally said you thought HK was town and wanted to take him out of the POE, right? What did you see in him?

he told someone to fuck off

[Golden]

[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Back here. This feels righter than Marmot to me.

My thoughts on the current leading wagons are:

SVS - I think this is a good elim
Rondo - Could be wolf, could be resolved by voting mac and letting mac work it out (apparently)
Seanzie - I'm not really in on this elim, I'd rather let the town direct Seanzie's kill as he's proposing and see if he sticks to it. There's a reasonable shot at proof there. But I don't begrudge the logic like I did Cape.


Scotty - not in on this elim at all.

[EnderWiggin]

This Rondo sure is Buckling.

[MacDougall]

@Golden @Urist the dynamic between you bothers me. Urist has been suspicious vocally all day long. Yesterday Golden was suspicious of Urist too at least at one stage. Yet Urist doesn't really seem to be attempting to progress his read. It's just there, he brings it up whenever someone gives him the opportunity to, but no persuading occurs... hes making no effort to reevaluate it either, despite Golden playing extremely actively. No wavering. It's just this ever present never changing read Urist cares about but not enough to actually cause any waves for?

And in response Golden more or less is just ignorant of it. No irritation. No omgus. Urist isn't in his POE and he's just letting Urist fly.

This dynamic trouble's me. It's not playing out like a town/town conflict would. On either side honestly.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Back here. This feels righter than Marmot to me.

My thoughts on the current leading wagons are:

SVS - I think this is a good elim
Rondo - Could be wolf, could be resolved by voting mac and letting mac work it out (apparently)
Seanzie - I'm not really in on this elim, I'd rather let the town direct Seanzie's kill as he's proposing and see if he sticks to it. There's a reasonable shot at proof there. But I don't begrudge the logic like I did Cape.


Scotty - not in on this elim at all.

Why did you say that about the Rondo wagon and not the others? That option can apply to anyone.

[MacDougall]

112 wagon disappearing entirely is actually legit weird.

Hollowkatt receiving little by way of negative attention is also very weird.

Both would be prime targets for mafia counterwagons if they were not mafia and we were pushing wolves.

They are either mafia or we haven't wagoned one?

[RondoDimBuckle]

I mean, I kinda gotta shoot Rondo at this point.

I think I might shoot Rondo.

I would understand if you did but I would still laugh at you

Okay, I get it. You want to pretend like you don't want to be shot when really you care. Where does that leave me?

hehehehehe

Does anyone object?

Obviously me plus if you kill me then my last will and testiment is they kill you and that will just ruin the game so you better not

For someone who thinks Seanzie dying will ruin the game you're sure voting for him.

who I am voting now and where I will land are two different things

[MacDougall]

It looks like MR has at least one wolf voting there in the hope that he becomes the next POE member to get a c/w.

Marmot wagon dying is legit a bad look for him. Though it spiking to 8 so quickly was a good look. I understand giving him some time... but... I'm quietly confident he's gonna end being mafia.

I don't really like the SVS wagon comp and she hasnt really been scummy imo, and I definitely don't want to chop Scotty. I haven't really figured out Rondo and kind of just want to give him time and see if he resolves some other way. I feel like the way he's treated me this game is towny and everything outside of that hasn't been.

112 is kind of thread spewed mafia to me.

Hollowkatt has probably fallen below the requisite bar they also make sense as a pair given 112 shielded HK during day 1 when HK was under pressure.

Marmot... I still don't think he's hitting his town notes and his wagon falling apart is bothering.

sig perhaps... he wouldn't surprise me either way I'm unsure.

Seanzie is just not being townie at all and I like those who are voting him with me. I also like that several counterwagons are ebbing and flowing around his wagon and its not taking off like Marmot's did earlier.

Maybe Golden being deep makes sense in the world that's appearing in my mind. Or Alison. Or maybe both. Not going to pursue with any vigour for now though. Nutella seems like she's probably out of her wolf range... But I'm a little paranoid so I'm managing that.

Everyone else I kind of have reasons to townread I'm quite content with just parking them in townleans or stronger and not focusing on them.

[MacDougall]

I like the Seanzie wagon more and SVS wagon even less now that Rondo just silently moved his vote from the former to the latter. This makes the Seanzie wagon extremely likely pure now (not that it may not have been prior, but Rondo's vote was the least clean).

I also townread every Rondo voter.

I think Seanzie and Rondo are probably mafia.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Ok gamers, are you ready to game?

AVADA KEDAVRA MARMOT @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Also @Neon goat

Stahp. Don't put this pressure on me.

[MacDougall]

SVS wagon breakdown

Sloonei ... I feel is likely detached town but he's certainly not out of his known wolfrange. His posts have all had good tone and he seems to lack wolf agenda.

Scotty ... I kinda townread for similar reasons. His play is maybe a bit more of the cavalier style than Sloonei's.

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

Alison ... like I have maybe a little paranoia here too but it's not as bad as it is towards Golden because her rationalisation feels more reasonable each time. The reasons she's giving for her town and mafia reads are consistently evidence based and in a way that's like "ohhh I see this is fair". Such as her Seanzie shield that if not for said effort providing reason would be driving more paranoia.

Sig and Rondo are like the two slots I just shrug and say "beats me they could flip both ways".

So all up I'm trying to say that this wagon has nearly 6 shrug slots on it. And the chances of those 6 being all town is close to nil to me.

[Porscha]

I do think the Sabi spew on Seanzie looks good for him and would prefer SVS/112 at this time

What is it

Side eyeing Seanzie and Creature joining that Dennis wagon like that

This feels a lot like Sabi knows Dennis is town and is preparing in advance to shade Seanzie and Creature for voting him.

Idk I kind of vibe with the idea of throwing 1 town and 1 wolf partner into the mix for wifom spew reasons like we are doing now

[MacDougall]

Not to drive paranoia but last time I played a significant game with Golden was the ANZAC invitational like 2 years ago on MU when he was wolf and I was town and I pretty much had an unshakeable paranoia he was wolf the whole time. I lived like 3 days. It was an absolutely bonkers town team and Golden managed to survive my paranoia, get me out and skate past them relatively undetected playing the same type of game he is playing here. It's probably not a bad ISO for those into such level of analysis.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/se ... d=16884604

[Golden]

@Golden @Urist the dynamic between you bothers me. Urist has been suspicious vocally all day long. Yesterday Golden was suspicious of Urist too at least at one stage. Yet Urist doesn't really seem to be attempting to progress his read. It's just there, he brings it up whenever someone gives him the opportunity to, but no persuading occurs... hes making no effort to reevaluate it either, despite Golden playing extremely actively. No wavering. It's just this ever present never changing read Urist cares about but not enough to actually cause any waves for?

And in response Golden more or less is just ignorant of it. No irritation. No omgus. Urist isn't in his POE and he's just letting Urist fly.

This dynamic trouble's me. It's not playing out like a town/town conflict would. On either side honestly.

I don't understand Urist, I'm not even sure whether to perceive some of his stuff as a joke read or not, and everyone else reads him as town for reasons that I don't understand. There's nothing there for me to understand how to engage with.

He is in my PoE though.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

There is def a wolf in Mac, Alison, Golden, Neon dynamic.

Neon is very likely just town. The rest I can see being wolves.

Creature, through two posts… “The entire town core are wolves” lol.

Alison and Mac are both players that can only be trusted if they are hitting wolves. If they keep pushing town then they're definitely suspicious.

You're not towncore at all.

I pushed sabi a lot day 1. Arguably my main read. Why am I a suspect?

I don't want you claiming cred for an already dead wolf. I want you to get us a new wolf pelt.

They deserve cred in that I only settled on actually shooting Sabi over Ender because I trusted what Mac was saying.

[Golden]

Why do I have a wagon?

To be fair it went from 'not really coming together at all' to 'coming together rather easily' at some point.

Does this seem like a good thing to you?

I know my role so it's obvious to me, but wagons forming easily aren't usually a good sign.

The 'wasn't really coming together at all' part was a bad look and then the 'coming together rather easily' part is a good look.

All in all it does make me feel slightly better about you and slightly inclined to go for someone else in the PoE, ultimately... but that depends on a few things (like the work you're about to put in now).

Who is in your PoE?

If it was solely up to me:

112
Marmot
MR
SVS
Creature
HK
Urist

Guillo has worked his way out, and ender I need to get a better read on/do an iso.

I was pretty happy with the process we went through to get to the PoE we had though, it felt robust.

Here's my PoE Mac

[MacDougall]

Why do I have a wagon?

To be fair it went from 'not really coming together at all' to 'coming together rather easily' at some point.

Does this seem like a good thing to you?

I know my role so it's obvious to me, but wagons forming easily aren't usually a good sign.

The 'wasn't really coming together at all' part was a bad look and then the 'coming together rather easily' part is a good look.

All in all it does make me feel slightly better about you and slightly inclined to go for someone else in the PoE, ultimately... but that depends on a few things (like the work you're about to put in now).

Who is in your PoE?

If it was solely up to me:

112
Marmot
MR
SVS
Creature
HK
Urist

Guillo has worked his way out, and ender I need to get a better read on/do an iso.

I was pretty happy with the process we went through to get to the PoE we had though, it felt robust.

Here's my PoE Mac

Mm okay. Explain why Rondo and Seanzie are not in it please.

[Porscha]

neon town too, especially if she's serious abt her softing a porscha kill inc

Wait her claim is the vig shot that she's been threatening me with for most of today.

How does that relate to what I said about Porscha?

oh lol I just saw this post in sabi's iso

mafia knew damn well that neon was gonna shoot sabi and couldn't do anything about it

@Party Crasher @nutella y'all are bad mafia doesn't even have a blocker or they'd have used it on neon

Good take.

Possible alternate world: Sabi was a lost mafia (something that doesn't really bear thinking about in all the spewing etc).

Goid take? Why?

If I was mafia I would have blocked neon for sure when she was threatening to vig my teammate.

Or maybe they didnt believe Neon and blocked someone else because who believes someone openly claiming a gun when i in most cases those claims are always fake and we got history on this board to be that case.

But that is besides the point, i thought scum!Alison TMIed her team's inability to prevent kills on their members but maybe im wrong.

I also entertained this thought

[MacDougall]

@Golden @Urist the dynamic between you bothers me. Urist has been suspicious vocally all day long. Yesterday Golden was suspicious of Urist too at least at one stage. Yet Urist doesn't really seem to be attempting to progress his read. It's just there, he brings it up whenever someone gives him the opportunity to, but no persuading occurs... hes making no effort to reevaluate it either, despite Golden playing extremely actively. No wavering. It's just this ever present never changing read Urist cares about but not enough to actually cause any waves for?

And in response Golden more or less is just ignorant of it. No irritation. No omgus. Urist isn't in his POE and he's just letting Urist fly.

This dynamic trouble's me. It's not playing out like a town/town conflict would. On either side honestly.

I don't understand Urist, I'm not even sure whether to perceive some of his stuff as a joke read or not, and everyone else reads him as town for reasons that I don't understand. There's nothing there for me to understand how to engage with.

He is in my PoE though.

I don't buy that. You should at least be attempting to make him elaborate to a degree where you can engage. You're just saying he's POE but otherwise ignoring his existence from what I can see. I expect you to care more about how he's treating you here cuz I feel like if you're town his mafia equity sky-rockets honestly.

[Golden]

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

You know you're tinfoiling.

I don't say I'm not in my wolf range when I'm in my wolf range. I'm not in my wolf range. I don't go around telling people they can go fuck themselves or fetch their own water when they ask me for explanations... I just don't.

The moves I'm not making are a function of the fact that I shouldn't be playing mafia any more. My job is actually kinda important and I do feel the weight, these days, of how much time and effort I put into mafia. It genuinely takes away from other things that I should be doing instead.

This isn't AtE, it's just a fact... I can't play this game on every front at once any more. I have to pick and choose.

BTW, my read on Rondo is 'I'd love him to just be resolved so I don't have to make a read'. Dude is inscrutable, but I don't get warmth. But the last time I played with Rondo, he subbed in for bea, and I had a strong town read on bea already when Rondo subbed in, so I can't tell if that meant I gave him transferred warmth. I am legit cautious of my read on that slot, because I think Rondo can be powerful towncore or power wolf.

[Golden]

@Golden @Urist the dynamic between you bothers me. Urist has been suspicious vocally all day long. Yesterday Golden was suspicious of Urist too at least at one stage. Yet Urist doesn't really seem to be attempting to progress his read. It's just there, he brings it up whenever someone gives him the opportunity to, but no persuading occurs... hes making no effort to reevaluate it either, despite Golden playing extremely actively. No wavering. It's just this ever present never changing read Urist cares about but not enough to actually cause any waves for?

And in response Golden more or less is just ignorant of it. No irritation. No omgus. Urist isn't in his POE and he's just letting Urist fly.

This dynamic trouble's me. It's not playing out like a town/town conflict would. On either side honestly.

I don't understand Urist, I'm not even sure whether to perceive some of his stuff as a joke read or not, and everyone else reads him as town for reasons that I don't understand. There's nothing there for me to understand how to engage with.

He is in my PoE though.

I don't buy that. You should at least be attempting to make him elaborate to a degree where you can engage. You're just saying he's POE but otherwise ignoring his existence from what I can see. I expect you to care more about how he's treating you here cuz I feel like if you're town his mafia equity sky-rockets honestly.

Then if I die, maybe people will take me seriously.

[Porscha]

SVS wagon breakdown

Sloonei ... I feel is likely detached town but he's certainly not out of his known wolfrange. His posts have all had good tone and he seems to lack wolf agenda.

Scotty ... I kinda townread for similar reasons. His play is maybe a bit more of the cavalier style than Sloonei's.

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

Alison ... like I have maybe a little paranoia here too but it's not as bad as it is towards Golden because her rationalisation feels more reasonable each time. The reasons she's giving for her town and mafia reads are consistently evidence based and in a way that's like "ohhh I see this is fair". Such as her Seanzie shield that if not for said effort providing reason would be driving more paranoia.

Sig and Rondo are like the two slots I just shrug and say "beats me they could flip both ways".

So all up I'm trying to say that this wagon has nearly 6 shrug slots on it. And the chances of those 6 being all town is close to nil to me.

I am head empty no thoughts on sloonei and golden, I am decidedly unsure on scotty but I'm enjoying having him around so that's happenstance luck for him, sig and rondo could flip either I agree, but I do think it's a twinge silly to tr alison cuz her reads are logic based (because when are they not?)

[RondoDimBuckle]

I like the Seanzie wagon more and SVS wagon even less now that Rondo just silently moved his vote from the former to the latter. This makes the Seanzie wagon extremely likely pure now (not that it may not have been prior, but Rondo's vote was the least clean).

I also townread every Rondo voter.

I think Seanzie and Rondo are probably mafia.

I do not like this, I know I am town so this is garbage

It looks like MR has at least one wolf voting there in the hope that he becomes the next POE member to get a c/w.

Marmot wagon dying is legit a bad look for him. Though it spiking to 8 so quickly was a good look. I understand giving him some time... but... I'm quietly confident he's gonna end being mafia.

I don't really like the SVS wagon comp and she hasnt really been scummy imo, and I definitely don't want to chop Scotty. I haven't really figured out Rondo and kind of just want to give him time and see if he resolves some other way. I feel like the way he's treated me this game is towny and everything outside of that hasn't been.

112 is kind of thread spewed mafia to me.

Hollowkatt has probably fallen below the requisite bar they also make sense as a pair given 112 shielded HK during day 1 when HK was under pressure.

Marmot... I still don't think he's hitting his town notes and his wagon falling apart is bothering.

sig perhaps... he wouldn't surprise me either way I'm unsure.

Seanzie is just not being townie at all and I like those who are voting him with me. I also like that several counterwagons are ebbing and flowing around his wagon and its not taking off like Marmot's did earlier.

Maybe Golden being deep makes sense in the world that's appearing in my mind. Or Alison. Or maybe both. Not going to pursue with any vigour for now though. Nutella seems like she's probably out of her wolf range... But I'm a little paranoid so I'm managing that.

Everyone else I kind of have reasons to townread I'm quite content with just parking them in townleans or stronger and not focusing on them.

I do like this, continue

[Porscha]

Wont it be fun when alison and guillo both do not flip town

[MacDougall]

Golden remember I just read Anzac mafia ISOs and reconsider how you're engaging with me knowing that please. Any attempt to persuade or manipulate me directly right now is going to make this worse. Ignore my suspicion and play mafia. I'm not engaging you directly on the subject of you, it only benefits wolf you for that to occur. Doesn't benefit town you, me or anyone else in the game. So stop doing it. Play mafia and talk to me about your reads and stuff, don't tell me I'm tinfoiling and fuck off with self meta.

[Golden]

To be fair it went from 'not really coming together at all' to 'coming together rather easily' at some point.

Does this seem like a good thing to you?

I know my role so it's obvious to me, but wagons forming easily aren't usually a good sign.

The 'wasn't really coming together at all' part was a bad look and then the 'coming together rather easily' part is a good look.

All in all it does make me feel slightly better about you and slightly inclined to go for someone else in the PoE, ultimately... but that depends on a few things (like the work you're about to put in now).

Who is in your PoE?

If it was solely up to me:

112
Marmot
MR
SVS
Creature
HK
Urist

Guillo has worked his way out, and ender I need to get a better read on/do an iso.

I was pretty happy with the process we went through to get to the PoE we had though, it felt robust.

Here's my PoE Mac

Mm okay. Explain why Rondo and Seanzie are not in it please.

Can you do me a favour, and I ask this only out of tiredness and a need to go to bed and a belief your intentions are good.

The exact question of 'where are rondo and seanzie' was already asked immediately in response to this and I already answered it.

And I have subsequently provided further takes on rondo and seanzie.

It's there for you to find.

[RondoDimBuckle]

SVS wagon breakdown

Sloonei ... I feel is likely detached town but he's certainly not out of his known wolfrange. His posts have all had good tone and he seems to lack wolf agenda.

Scotty ... I kinda townread for similar reasons. His play is maybe a bit more of the cavalier style than Sloonei's.

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

Alison ... like I have maybe a little paranoia here too but it's not as bad as it is towards Golden because her rationalisation feels more reasonable each time. The reasons she's giving for her town and mafia reads are consistently evidence based and in a way that's like "ohhh I see this is fair". Such as her Seanzie shield that if not for said effort providing reason would be driving more paranoia.

Sig and Rondo are like the two slots I just shrug and say "beats me they could flip both ways".

So all up I'm trying to say that this wagon has nearly 6 shrug slots on it. And the chances of those 6 being all town is close to nil to me.

agree

[RondoDimBuckle]

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

You know you're tinfoiling.

I don't say I'm not in my wolf range when I'm in my wolf range. I'm not in my wolf range. I don't go around telling people they can go fuck themselves or fetch their own water when they ask me for explanations... I just don't.

The moves I'm not making are a function of the fact that I shouldn't be playing mafia any more. My job is actually kinda important and I do feel the weight, these days, of how much time and effort I put into mafia. It genuinely takes away from other things that I should be doing instead.

This isn't AtE, it's just a fact... I can't play this game on every front at once any more. I have to pick and choose.

BTW, my read on Rondo is 'I'd love him to just be resolved so I don't have to make a read'. Dude is inscrutable, but I don't get warmth. But the last time I played with Rondo, he subbed in for bea, and I had a strong town read on bea already when Rondo subbed in, so I can't tell if that meant I gave him transferred warmth. I am legit cautious of my read on that slot, because I think Rondo can be powerful towncore or power wolf.

Just accept I am not going to late game and this is all fine. You are definitely transferring warmth. The best read on my slot is Ender and he cant even get me right so its ok

[Golden]

Golden remember I just read Anzac mafia ISOs and reconsider how you're engaging with me knowing that please. Any attempt to persuade or manipulate me directly right now is going to make this worse. Ignore my suspicion and play mafia. I'm not engaging you directly on the subject of you, it only benefits wolf you for that to occur. Doesn't benefit town you, me or anyone else in the game. So stop doing it. Play mafia and talk to me about your reads and stuff, don't tell me I'm tinfoiling and fuck off with self meta.

Don't even remember what that game is.

And I need to say this to you the same way I say it to anyone else.

I do not... I really do not... take any influence from others opinions are of me self metaing. It benefits town me permanently... every time I'm town. People remember this shit. I do it for a reason. I guard my obvitown meta jealously so I can pull it out when I need to and people stand up and listen. It's not about this game, it's about next game, and the one after that, and the one after that. I need this so that when I am busy and stressed I can pull the card out and play the game with less suspicion coming my way.

[MacDougall]

SVS wagon breakdown

Sloonei ... I feel is likely detached town but he's certainly not out of his known wolfrange. His posts have all had good tone and he seems to lack wolf agenda.

Scotty ... I kinda townread for similar reasons. His play is maybe a bit more of the cavalier style than Sloonei's.

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

Alison ... like I have maybe a little paranoia here too but it's not as bad as it is towards Golden because her rationalisation feels more reasonable each time. The reasons she's giving for her town and mafia reads are consistently evidence based and in a way that's like "ohhh I see this is fair". Such as her Seanzie shield that if not for said effort providing reason would be driving more paranoia.

Sig and Rondo are like the two slots I just shrug and say "beats me they could flip both ways".

So all up I'm trying to say that this wagon has nearly 6 shrug slots on it. And the chances of those 6 being all town is close to nil to me.

I am head empty no thoughts on sloonei and golden, I am decidedly unsure on scotty but I'm enjoying having him around so that's happenstance luck for him, sig and rondo could flip either I agree, but I do think it's a twinge silly to tr alison cuz her reads are logic based (because when are they not?)

It's less that they are logic based and more that I find her evidence compelling. I find wolf Alison's justifications frequently don't pass my vibe checks like they are here.

[MacDougall]

Does this seem like a good thing to you?

I know my role so it's obvious to me, but wagons forming easily aren't usually a good sign.

The 'wasn't really coming together at all' part was a bad look and then the 'coming together rather easily' part is a good look.

All in all it does make me feel slightly better about you and slightly inclined to go for someone else in the PoE, ultimately... but that depends on a few things (like the work you're about to put in now).

Who is in your PoE?

If it was solely up to me:

112
Marmot
MR
SVS
Creature
HK
Urist

Guillo has worked his way out, and ender I need to get a better read on/do an iso.

I was pretty happy with the process we went through to get to the PoE we had though, it felt robust.

Here's my PoE Mac

Mm okay. Explain why Rondo and Seanzie are not in it please.

Can you do me a favour, and I ask this only out of tiredness and a need to go to bed and a belief your intentions are good.

The exact question of 'where are rondo and seanzie' was already asked immediately in response to this and I already answered it.

And I have subsequently provided further takes on rondo and seanzie.

It's there for you to find.

Totally fair.

[Golden]

SVS wagon breakdown

Sloonei ... I feel is likely detached town but he's certainly not out of his known wolfrange. His posts have all had good tone and he seems to lack wolf agenda.

Scotty ... I kinda townread for similar reasons. His play is maybe a bit more of the cavalier style than Sloonei's.

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

Alison ... like I have maybe a little paranoia here too but it's not as bad as it is towards Golden because her rationalisation feels more reasonable each time. The reasons she's giving for her town and mafia reads are consistently evidence based and in a way that's like "ohhh I see this is fair". Such as her Seanzie shield that if not for said effort providing reason would be driving more paranoia.

Sig and Rondo are like the two slots I just shrug and say "beats me they could flip both ways".

So all up I'm trying to say that this wagon has nearly 6 shrug slots on it. And the chances of those 6 being all town is close to nil to me.

Btw, how does your take on this shift in either direction if SVS flips each of t! and w!?

[RondoDimBuckle]

SVS wagon breakdown

Sloonei ... I feel is likely detached town but he's certainly not out of his known wolfrange. His posts have all had good tone and he seems to lack wolf agenda.

Scotty ... I kinda townread for similar reasons. His play is maybe a bit more of the cavalier style than Sloonei's.

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

Alison ... like I have maybe a little paranoia here too but it's not as bad as it is towards Golden because her rationalisation feels more reasonable each time. The reasons she's giving for her town and mafia reads are consistently evidence based and in a way that's like "ohhh I see this is fair". Such as her Seanzie shield that if not for said effort providing reason would be driving more paranoia.

Sig and Rondo are like the two slots I just shrug and say "beats me they could flip both ways".

So all up I'm trying to say that this wagon has nearly 6 shrug slots on it. And the chances of those 6 being all town is close to nil to me.

I am head empty no thoughts on sloonei and golden, I am decidedly unsure on scotty but I'm enjoying having him around so that's happenstance luck for him, sig and rondo could flip either I agree, but I do think it's a twinge silly to tr alison cuz her reads are logic based (because when are they not?)

I wouldnt be surprised if Wilgy and Sloonie were w/w or t/t or even 3/3. Golden I am happy to just live and not end game just like me. Scotty is just doing scotty things and people are townreading him for it which is like "shrug ok" then why dont you town read Rondo for doing Rondo things? Its interesting. Sig I could kill but he has good energy at times. Alison I have conceded is probably town in the knowledge that Nutella/Mac/Golden/Alison can not ALL be wolves and if one of them is the others will find.

[Dyslexicon]

Friendos give marmot another day pls.

@MacDougall @Alison @S~V~S @Scotty @Golden @Party Crasher @Michelle @Sloonei

Please, it's clear they simply didn't have time today and will participate in earnest when they can, and I do believe they are likely just town and will be very helpful when available. Let's get Seanzie today, the fact no one is following me there despite nothing about him looking town just makes me more confident

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

[MacDougall]

SVS wagon breakdown

Sloonei ... I feel is likely detached town but he's certainly not out of his known wolfrange. His posts have all had good tone and he seems to lack wolf agenda.

Scotty ... I kinda townread for similar reasons. His play is maybe a bit more of the cavalier style than Sloonei's.

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

Alison ... like I have maybe a little paranoia here too but it's not as bad as it is towards Golden because her rationalisation feels more reasonable each time. The reasons she's giving for her town and mafia reads are consistently evidence based and in a way that's like "ohhh I see this is fair". Such as her Seanzie shield that if not for said effort providing reason would be driving more paranoia.

Sig and Rondo are like the two slots I just shrug and say "beats me they could flip both ways".

So all up I'm trying to say that this wagon has nearly 6 shrug slots on it. And the chances of those 6 being all town is close to nil to me.

Btw, how does your take on this shift in either direction if SVS flips each of t! and w!?

Well that changes a lot depending on who is responsible at the point responsibility has meaning, which may or may not be now. Assuming you intend to carry this wagon through and try to get it over and she flips town it would obviously reflect well on you in a level 1 way.

[Dyslexicon]

Good morning, friends. Not all the way caught up.

[Golden]

Btw mac I know your paranoia on me is nothing but respect. I’m not bothered by it. Guarantee It’ll resolve one way or the other, I’ve had way too much attention to make lylo in this thing.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Golden remember I just read Anzac mafia ISOs and reconsider how you're engaging with me knowing that please. Any attempt to persuade or manipulate me directly right now is going to make this worse. Ignore my suspicion and play mafia. I'm not engaging you directly on the subject of you, it only benefits wolf you for that to occur. Doesn't benefit town you, me or anyone else in the game. So stop doing it. Play mafia and talk to me about your reads and stuff, don't tell me I'm tinfoiling and fuck off with self meta.

Don't even remember what that game is.

And I need to say this to you the same way I say it to anyone else.

I do not... I really do not... take any influence from others opinions are of me self metaing. It benefits town me permanently... every time I'm town. People remember this shit. I do it for a reason. I guard my obvitown meta jealously so I can pull it out when I need to and people stand up and listen. It's not about this game, it's about next game, and the one after that, and the one after that. I need this so that when I am busy and stressed I can pull the card out and play the game with less suspicion coming my way.

pretty sure that is an angleshoot and against the rules. No one should have an obv town. The point of the game is to obfuscate and find people with reasoning and rhetoric to be able to pull out a card and say "I am town" is against the spirit of the game. So I am going to go ahead and call you wolf.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm ok giving Marmot another day.

[Dyslexicon]

Sean, SVS, Rondo all good wagons to me. Scotty, sure but meh

[Golden]

SVS wagon breakdown

Sloonei ... I feel is likely detached town but he's certainly not out of his known wolfrange. His posts have all had good tone and he seems to lack wolf agenda.

Scotty ... I kinda townread for similar reasons. His play is maybe a bit more of the cavalier style than Sloonei's.

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

Alison ... like I have maybe a little paranoia here too but it's not as bad as it is towards Golden because her rationalisation feels more reasonable each time. The reasons she's giving for her town and mafia reads are consistently evidence based and in a way that's like "ohhh I see this is fair". Such as her Seanzie shield that if not for said effort providing reason would be driving more paranoia.

Sig and Rondo are like the two slots I just shrug and say "beats me they could flip both ways".

So all up I'm trying to say that this wagon has nearly 6 shrug slots on it. And the chances of those 6 being all town is close to nil to me.

Btw, how does your take on this shift in either direction if SVS flips each of t! and w!?

Well that changes a lot depending on who is responsible at the point responsibility has meaning, which may or may not be now. Assuming you intend to carry this wagon through and try to get it over and she flips town it would obviously reflect well on you in a level 1 way.

I mean, I don’t intend NOT too, but I could be swayed by a better case.

I was really hoping to get some real SVS thoughts out last night when she found herself in the PoE and they didn’t come. I feel like town svs… even overwhelmed, thread lost town svs, would have more unfiltered thoughts. Feels like there’s stuff she’s thought that hadn’t made it to the thread.

[Golden]

Golden remember I just read Anzac mafia ISOs and reconsider how you're engaging with me knowing that please. Any attempt to persuade or manipulate me directly right now is going to make this worse. Ignore my suspicion and play mafia. I'm not engaging you directly on the subject of you, it only benefits wolf you for that to occur. Doesn't benefit town you, me or anyone else in the game. So stop doing it. Play mafia and talk to me about your reads and stuff, don't tell me I'm tinfoiling and fuck off with self meta.

Don't even remember what that game is.

And I need to say this to you the same way I say it to anyone else.

I do not... I really do not... take any influence from others opinions are of me self metaing. It benefits town me permanently... every time I'm town. People remember this shit. I do it for a reason. I guard my obvitown meta jealously so I can pull it out when I need to and people stand up and listen. It's not about this game, it's about next game, and the one after that, and the one after that. I need this so that when I am busy and stressed I can pull the card out and play the game with less suspicion coming my way.

pretty sure that is an angleshoot and against the rules. No one should have an obv town. The point of the game is to obfuscate and find people with reasoning and rhetoric to be able to pull out a card and say "I am town" is against the spirit of the game. So I am going to go ahead and call you wolf.

Ok, whatevs.

[Golden]

Not really bothered by moralising about the ‘point of the game’ tbh. It’s different for everyone.

Knowing peoples meta isn’t angle shooting, for me, it’s literally what the game is.

[Golden]

The good thing about my obvitown meta is it’s hardly angleshooting because my wolf game is feared enough that people don’t believe the claim anyway. As proven here.

[Porscha]

I mean, I kinda gotta shoot Rondo at this point.

I think I might shoot Rondo.

I would understand if you did but I would still laugh at you

Okay, I get it. You want to pretend like you don't want to be shot when really you care. Where does that leave me?

hehehehehe

Does anyone object?

Yes

[RondoDimBuckle]

Not really bothered by moralising about the ‘point of the game’ tbh. It’s different for everyone.

Knowing peoples meta isn’t angle shooting, for me, it’s literally what the game is.

Eh I am not going to get into this. Philosophical differences. I dislike that you are conflating Meta with a Obv Town which is different so I am just going to peace out for now

[Porscha]

Golden remember I just read Anzac mafia ISOs and reconsider how you're engaging with me knowing that please. Any attempt to persuade or manipulate me directly right now is going to make this worse. Ignore my suspicion and play mafia. I'm not engaging you directly on the subject of you, it only benefits wolf you for that to occur. Doesn't benefit town you, me or anyone else in the game. So stop doing it. Play mafia and talk to me about your reads and stuff, don't tell me I'm tinfoiling and fuck off with self meta.

Don't even remember what that game is.

And I need to say this to you the same way I say it to anyone else.

I do not... I really do not... take any influence from others opinions are of me self metaing. It benefits town me permanently... every time I'm town. People remember this shit. I do it for a reason. I guard my obvitown meta jealously so I can pull it out when I need to and people stand up and listen. It's not about this game, it's about next game, and the one after that, and the one after that. I need this so that when I am busy and stressed I can pull the card out and play the game with less suspicion coming my way.

pretty sure that is an angleshoot and against the rules. No one should have an obv town. The point of the game is to obfuscate and find people with reasoning and rhetoric to be able to pull out a card and say "I am town" is against the spirit of the game. So I am going to go ahead and call you wolf.

Dont need to go to step 2 when step 1 is enough

[Porscha]

SVS wagon breakdown

Sloonei ... I feel is likely detached town but he's certainly not out of his known wolfrange. His posts have all had good tone and he seems to lack wolf agenda.

Scotty ... I kinda townread for similar reasons. His play is maybe a bit more of the cavalier style than Sloonei's.

Golden. He's... such a good wolf I just can't shake the suspicion. His justifications for his reads and pushes all make sense they're just ... its like they are sensible but not compelling. Good excuses not actual reasons? And I feel that there's something to be said for the moves he's not making ... such as how he's treating Urist and Rondo. It feels like he's trying to thread a needle of powerwolfing without townsiding or something.

Alison ... like I have maybe a little paranoia here too but it's not as bad as it is towards Golden because her rationalisation feels more reasonable each time. The reasons she's giving for her town and mafia reads are consistently evidence based and in a way that's like "ohhh I see this is fair". Such as her Seanzie shield that if not for said effort providing reason would be driving more paranoia.

Sig and Rondo are like the two slots I just shrug and say "beats me they could flip both ways".

So all up I'm trying to say that this wagon has nearly 6 shrug slots on it. And the chances of those 6 being all town is close to nil to me.

I am head empty no thoughts on sloonei and golden, I am decidedly unsure on scotty but I'm enjoying having him around so that's happenstance luck for him, sig and rondo could flip either I agree, but I do think it's a twinge silly to tr alison cuz her reads are logic based (because when are they not?)

It's less that they are logic based and more that I find her evidence compelling. I find wolf Alison's justifications frequently don't pass my vibe checks like they are here.

I do also think it is... sometimes... compelling. But only sometimes and I think half of it is just choosing to pick a side of wifom for the sake of sounding like she is making a point. It sometimes passes the vibe check for me but not always and I am therefore tinfoiled