[END] Literal WWerecreatures Invade Syndicate Zoo: An SDN Crossover Game

[Seanzie]

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

What tale does it tell?

I'll let you get caught up, and then will field questions.

Then I've got good news for you!

Caught up

Your next post implies you're following, so I don't feel any need to reply to this post (as I reply to this post).

[Seanzie]

I found out that the animal I chooose was Joseph Heller. I am not quite sure, but most of my play has been based off my limited knowledge of them.

[Seanzie]

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

What tale does it tell?

I'll let you get caught up, and then will field questions.

I see you answered this, but I'm still not sure I understand your point in pointing out zenge's tagging AM for a question

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Oooo, care to eleaborate?

You've been dancing around the Zenge/Falcon/Sloonei drama but have seemingly been in every camp at this point

OoO fun! You're actually pushing me.

I ask you to put yourself into my POV. Falcon is not an option. This leaves Zenge/Sloonei. Both have done sushish things, but meh...

Do I really feel like I'm dancing? I feel like I'm nipping. To great effect.

[Zenge]

Falcon is not an option.

Soooooooo are you going to elaborate on why you keep saying this, or… ___ …

[Seanzie]

Falcon is not an option.

Soooooooo are you going to elaborate on why you keep saying this, or… ___ …

Already did. Do I need to requote?

[Sloonei]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

I mean... Maybe. Idk. I'm currently torn on falcon. I think Sloonei really just doesn't want to talk to you tbh

That’s fair. But for the second I’ve started this Falcon push they came in to shut it down, claiming “That’s just Falcon” and have refused time and time again to not really answer any questions about my interaction with Falcon.

Like if you’re going to defend someone you think is village wouldn’t you actually take apart the merits of the case against them instead of giving fake politicians answers that never actually answer the question?

I said that that there was no value in continuing our dialogue, but I think this post highlights where the problem is occurring. I also don't want to come across as though I am avoiding talking to you or that I have found our interactions unpleasant. When I said that there was no value in continuing, I meant that at face value. I felt as though I had said all that I could, and that responding to further questioning would just send us circling even further around the same questions and answers, wasting time and posts and energy.

But I think I can take another crack at it that might help to resolve whatever issue. Because I think this post points to a potential blind spot in your reasoning, at least from my perspective. I'll break it down in two parts.

Part the first:

But from the second I’ve started this Falcon push they came in to shut it down

First, I did not arrive the second your Falcon push started. I came along later. You and falcon first started butting heads around midnight my time last night. I chimed in at 1 PM this afternoon my time. But that's pedantry which is not essential to my point. More importantly, I emphatically did not try to "shut it down." I have stressed on multiple occasions throughout our entire dialogue that you should feel free to continue pushing Falcon. Here are the receipts:

Spoiler: show

I am not telling you to drop it either. I simply wanted to tell you that the things you are objecting to in falcon's play are not out of character for him. You and he may continue to feel each other out if you think it is necessary.

I do know falcon better than you, and I was trying to weigh in with some background knowledge. I was not trying to tell you to stop talking to or about him.

I encourage you to continue to the extent that you feel is necessary in order to be satisfied with your read on falcon.

I even stressed very early on that my only intention was to provide you with more context about Falcon as mafia player:

I am simply trying to provide context about how falcon usually engages with the thread early on in games.

Part the second:

Like if you’re going to defend someone you think is village wouldn’t you actually take apart the merits of the case against them

This is where the brunt of my frustration kicks in, and where I think you are getting lost. In the first part of this post, you accuse me of defending Falcon too much. In this second part, you accuse me of not defending Falcon enough. And the reason for that is what I have just endeavored to illustrate above: I am not trying to defend falcon at all. That was never my intention for a single second, and I have gone to considerable lengths to make that very clear. My continued engagement with this subject has been out of an interest in finding common ground with you. But, at every step, you have held onto the notion that I am making an effort to silence, dismiss, or obfuscate your read on Falcon. If anything, I have amplified it while also sticking myself in the middle of it.

If my intention was to defend Falcon, as you allege, then you are correct that I would "actually take apart the merits of the case against them." That would be the prudent thing to do. But this has never been of interest to me, because I am not here to defend Falcon.

I have responded to all of your questions accordingly. I have attempted to stress each time that I have little input with regards to the actual substance of your interactions with Falcon. It was a very typical Day 1 headbutt. You both nitpicked each other's words and made sweeping accusations based on snap judgments about each other's characters. Mafia 101. I have not engaged with it in more detail because I genuinely do not think there is much substance to the argument itself. But it has clearly generated a lot of substance, so it was a wonderful opening play.

also: I use male pronouns.

[Sloonei]

Now that I have said all of that, our triumvirate is missing one of its pieces. Falcon has been absent for a lot of this. I tried to engage him earlier and he Simpson gif'd me. I understand there was talk of flu medicine. But he stuck around and made some on-topic comments during a time when there was a lot of fuss around his name. That he was a non-participant in all that commotion is something I want to note.

[Mayo the Mayo]

I found out that the animal I chooose was Joseph Heller. I am not quite sure, but most of my play has been based off my limited knowledge of them.

Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.

[Mayo the Mayo]

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

What tale does it tell?

I'll let you get caught up, and then will field questions.

I see you answered this, but I'm still not sure I understand your point in pointing out zenge's tagging AM for a question

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Oooo, care to eleaborate?

You've been dancing around the Zenge/Falcon/Sloonei drama but have seemingly been in every camp at this point

OoO fun! You're actually pushing me.

I ask you to put yourself into my POV. Falcon is not an option. This leaves Zenge/Sloonei. Both have done sushish things, but meh...

Do I really feel like I'm dancing? I feel like I'm nipping. To great effect.

Except that your POV isn't that falcon is town, it's that wolf falcon isn't worth your D1 attention.

Knowing Zenge's meta, I don't think it's possible he and Sloonei are W/W.

You are dancing from one to the other and willfully ignoring the third. That's three beats, so I guess it's a waltz or a muneut... though you seem spicy, so I wouldn't put a Fandango outside of your wheelhouse.

[Mayo the Mayo]

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

What tale does it tell?

I'll let you get caught up, and then will field questions.

I see you answered this, but I'm still not sure I understand your point in pointing out zenge's tagging AM for a question

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Oooo, care to eleaborate?

You've been dancing around the Zenge/Falcon/Sloonei drama but have seemingly been in every camp at this point

OoO fun! You're actually pushing me.

I ask you to put yourself into my POV. Falcon is not an option. This leaves Zenge/Sloonei. Both have done sushish things, but meh...

Do I really feel like I'm dancing? I feel like I'm nipping. To great effect.

Except that your POV isn't that falcon is town, it's that wolf falcon isn't worth your D1 attention.

Knowing Zenge's meta, I don't think it's possible he and Sloonei are W/W.

You are dancing from one to the other and willfully ignoring the third. That's three beats, so I guess it's a waltz or a muneut... though you seem spicy, so I wouldn't put a Fandango outside of your wheelhouse.

Minuet...

[Mayo the Mayo]

You’re right. I’m extremely dissatisfied.

I asked you for one thing. One simple thing. Give me your thoughts on the content itself.

Instead you gave another hand wavy answer that simply acknowledges the existence of the content and talk about how it was created on D1.

I wanted you to talk to me about the argument I’m making against Falcon. The specific point about what Falcon said, my rebuttal, and what you agree with or disagree with in that exchange, with specifics.

I still expect an answer here.

I think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.

You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.

Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.

I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.

Get out of here with your calm and reasoning.

Also, intentionally being peacemaker and trying to stop a distracting argument feels town to me.

This isn’t “calm and reason”.

They refused to actually answer the question I was asking. They said a lot of words without saying anything of meaning.

Reading it as an outsider to the argument, I think they are frustrated that it's been going on for a week and a half without either you or falcon really offering anything new.

Sloonei's post reads like trying to move the thread along. I would guess that's why they aren't engaging with your questions.

If falcon were to flip wolf, it wouldn't be a great look for Sloonei, but they wouldn't be the only person viewing the argument as V/V.

The issue I take with Sloonei, isn’t that they’re reading it as v/v.

It’s the way in which the initial response to me pushing Falcon was an attempt to shut down any conversation by saying “that’s just how Falcon is” without ever being willing to highlight specific parts of the interaction they agreed with and disagreed with, despite repeated requests to do so. Never once.

I think that's come through clearly in your posts, but it's clear they don't want to engage. I still think they seem like a villager who is tired of the same argument.

If your falcon tunnel is right, then it's more likely that I'm wrong about how I interpreted that post.

[Mayo the Mayo]

Abigail,

I've feasted upon the bountiful wonders of this land and the banquet has satisfied even my gluttonous appetite!

The initial sparkle of this place continues strong, but I find myself increasingly unable to ignore the slight patina of tension which seems to overlie it all.

The villagers wear their smiles like a mask. Indeed, there is a fear and distrust that I have as yet been unable to uncover. When the sun sets, I fear this unease may bubble over into overt violence.

My nightmares grow worse. Are the terrors of my mind breaking free into the world, or has the unrelenting tension of this place started to displace my sanity?

What solace to know that you remain safely at home. I trust you are managing well without mother?

Je me demande si maman a appris à tirer à tous ses enfants.

You may need it. We all might.

-Mayo

[Mayo the Mayo]

You’re right. I’m extremely dissatisfied.

I asked you for one thing. One simple thing. Give me your thoughts on the content itself.

Instead you gave another hand wavy answer that simply acknowledges the existence of the content and talk about how it was created on D1.

I wanted you to talk to me about the argument I’m making against Falcon. The specific point about what Falcon said, my rebuttal, and what you agree with or disagree with in that exchange, with specifics.

I still expect an answer here.

I think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.

You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.

Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.

I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.

Get out of here with your calm and reasoning.

Also, intentionally being peacemaker and trying to stop a distracting argument feels town to me.

This isn’t “calm and reason”.

They refused to actually answer the question I was asking. They said a lot of words without saying anything of meaning.

Reading it as an outsider to the argument, I think they are frustrated that it's been going on for a week and a half without either you or falcon really offering anything new.

Sloonei's post reads like trying to move the thread along. I would guess that's why they aren't engaging with your questions.

If falcon were to flip wolf, it wouldn't be a great look for Sloonei, but they wouldn't be the only person viewing the argument as V/V.

The issue I take with Sloonei, isn’t that they’re reading it as v/v.

It’s the way in which the initial response to me pushing Falcon was an attempt to shut down any conversation by saying “that’s just how Falcon is” without ever being willing to highlight specific parts of the interaction they agreed with and disagreed with, despite repeated requests to do so. Never once.

I think that's come through clearly in your posts, but it's clear they don't want to engage. I still think they seem like a villager who is tired of the same argument.

If your falcon tunnel is right, then it's more likely that I'm wrong about how I interpreted that post.

Though I'm not town reading falcon.

Sloonei has sounded town in how they have approached this to me, even if I think he could have dodged some frustration by answering questions earlier.

[Mayo the Mayo]

Mother Sporty and AM are village.

Zenge is probably village as well. I think frustrated tunnel zenge fits more with his village meta.

I also feel good about Seanzie and Neon of the syndicate folks.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Yawn did anything happen?

Yeah I got a N0 red on you

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@potentialsheltervet What's your read on Neon right now?

Super obvious town

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Everywhere?

I'm not getting my normal town falcon pings.

What are the normal town falcon pings?

I'm not great at explaining things but this ain't it.

I expect falcon to be kinda quiet and in the background someone you have to look for and most people will forget about but has posts that are extremely informative if you bother to pay attention

But here he's in the forefront leading and loudly pushing narratives. This isn't what I expect.

I find the few times I've seen town!Falcon fiery D1, it is more inquisitive aggressiveness, whereas here it doesn't really feel inquisitive.

That kinda also tracks.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@Sloonei What do you think of Neon (I think) saying falcon feels OOC?

Anyway, I find the split on whether falcon is playing out of character or not to be an interesting one. sloonei says no, neon says yes. Other Syndicats, what's your opinion?

I think you should read her wolf game before making claims like this.

I will not be doing that. I already stated I'm not even going to be reading this entire game. All I'm saying is I think she sounds noobish rather than wolfy to me.

That's going to be a problem.

Not if she sheeps me.

@potentialsheltervet
Falcon Yeet!
Falcon Yeet!
Falcon Yeet!

I'm thinking about it. Particularly interested in Neon agreeing he's not acting normal. Trying to source opinions from other Syndicats to see their opinions

@Seanzie It's reasonable to assume looking at the way PVS keeps referring back to Neon specifically, and the tone in general, that they're not SR her slot.




Or perhaps I'm wrong and PVS is trying to get a read on Neon based off their read on me? But it doesn't feel that way at all, it feels like PVS is TR Neon, or at the very least has her above null

"God reads" are kind of a big thing on SDN, so I'm not that surprised by PSV paying extra attention to Neon's read on you if she claims to read you well.

My ability to read falcon is being overstated.

I just don't blindly execute them when they slank like everyone else does and usually call him town and he flips town.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Game Fast.

14 pages.

Haven't read.

ANYWAYS @Neon you meme voting Dennis?

@falcon45ca/@NateTheLesser please iterate on why Zenge?

No it's a real vote

Can you iterate why?

Sure *points at all of Dennis "content"*

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Game Fast.

14 pages.

Haven't read.

ANYWAYS @Neon you meme voting Dennis?

@falcon45ca/@NateTheLesser please iterate on why Zenge?

No it's a real vote

Can you iterate why?

Sure *points at all of Dennis "content"*

What's a town!Dennis like that you're not seeing so far?

I wouldn't trust my Dennis read.

But also I don't like that Dennis is hesitant to get into the game properly. Most of his reads are parrots.

This... kinda normal. Really fakeable. My issue is that he feels like he's trying to fit in with the vibes now more than normal and it feels super forced.

This is gonna sound super dumb especially after I admit I read Dennis wrong a lot and we def play style clash despite being similar. A coach I used to have said I'm far harder on people who play like me than anyone else be cause I hate my own play so uh do with that what you will.

But I don't like the way they are applying their jokey attitude here. It just feels...I dunno stiff.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Wait, that's not right

More Intresting

Listen to that song all the way up to 11 in the dark and then it should all make sense

This song is saf

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

And also sad*

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Everywhere?

I'm not getting my normal town falcon pings.

What are the normal town falcon pings?

I'm not great at explaining things but this ain't it.

I expect falcon to be kinda quiet and in the background someone you have to look for and most people will forget about but has posts that are extremely informative if you bother to pay attention

But here he's in the forefront leading and loudly pushing narratives. This isn't what I expect.

I find the few times I've seen town!Falcon fiery D1, it is more inquisitive aggressiveness, whereas here it doesn't really feel inquisitive.

Meta Maf has me out swingin' hoss.





I sat back and we got creamed. Nuh uh, not again

Don't worry I'm not gonna get misexed early for bad reasons this game


Boom

Gottim

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Seriously though did I forget I was townreading you

Why are you townreading me?

I am not I was asking if I said I was, but forgot to put you on the list

Why aren't you townreading me?

Actual footage of Seanzie this game

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@potentialsheltervet What's your read on Neon right now?

I think Neon is fine for now, but only saw the last pages.

I didn't realize your name was PSV

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

Intresting. Do you think your reads here might have subconscious bias around who you know and who you aren't used to playing with?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

Could you remind me why Zenge is the only SDNer you're reading when you've only played one game with him where you were both village?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

AM is so towny it hurts

AM this is the kind of towny i need you to be on MU so people don't wonder wtf Im talking about when i call you a villager

I know right I'm so glad I made that town call like 18 pages ago


Game so ez

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

idk, zenge/falcon/sloon feels a lot like v on v on v violence but i dont really know how to read the first 2

Let me lay out my case for you.

Falcon made a very bad push on me.

I said I was thinking about how a wolf would approach the game and looking for people who were doing that.

Falcon claimed that this “wasn’t a town perspective”.

I asked him to elaborate and he refused and changed the subject.

I asked him again and he obfuscated with something unrelated.

This is not how a villager looking to solve the game behaves.

falcon is someone I struggle with because I almost always want to call him a wolf, but he's usually not a wolf

he does shit that I would consider wolfy in a vacuum

I find falcon easy to read generally.

Not right now though.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

i kind of think sloon is being lightly v

Why do your reads have so many adjectives?

they always do and you always take issue with it

it's how i express myself

[ytubehd][/ytubehd]

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Falcon Zenge is T v T change my mind


Spoiler you can't

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

*everyone votes me*


>no, not like that

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

[S~V~S]

Let it also be known that I’d *prefer* a syndiCat player to go first.

I was thinking about this, and as a game structural standpoint, I believe there to be an even number of players in each community on the mafia team. So I feel fine about one of my community going first

Why would you believe this, about the composition of the bad team? The host said in his roles post that there were more than two factions:

Setup Information

The setup is probably best described as "semi-closed" (which may be synonymous with semi-open, but let's say it favors the closed side). The exact roles contained in the game are not explicitly public, but you shall be made aware of the kinds of roles that are possible.

Roles have been constructed from a pseudo-random process involving rolls of the dice (so I rolled the roles!) to gather ideas and build the skeleton of the game. From there though, the hosts have tweaked and tampered as they see fit to manage the fairest balance and most fun prospects we reasonably can. I will provide you with certain "rules" that apply to the design of the game, and you can trust that these rules are true and unchanging. They are as follows:

~ The game contains more than two factions.
~ The vast majority of role abilities can apply to members of any faction.
~ No player will ever have their faction changed (e.g., there is no recruitment mechanism).
~ Animal characters/flavor are entirely unrelated to both alignment/affiliation and role abilities.
~ Role abilities may exist in essentially any combination regardless of faction, if they exist at all. Solve each other, not the hosts.

I saw someone else speculating last night on bad team size. Would you consider a few 3P players a "Faction"? Or do you think it could be multiball? We don't really do multiball games here anymore, do they do them at SDN?

And from a perspective of being good hosts, I don't disagree with you that it would be more gracious, I guess, to not yeet new members on their first game here, but shouldn't you want to get the most suspish person in the context of this set up?

While I agree that Dennis has tweaked me a bit, do you honestly find him most suspish at this point? More than Pyxxy, who seems to be 3P hunting?

I am really not feeling this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reading back over, I think Sloonei behaving as he did is NAI. He hasn't said enough outside of Falcongate otherwise to call a read for me. I think Falcon would have backed off sooner if he was bad, and would not have returned to the discussion. I think he's better than many at backing away from suspicions without getting pushback for it.

Zenge is a bit paradoxical for me. I think he believes what he's saying re Falcon. But I am not so sure I get the same sincerity in his exchanges with Sloonei.

[S~V~S]

Quick question at large; have lots of you played together before? It seems that way; most of the SDN are new to me, but not to everyone at TS.

[Zenge]

also: I use male pronouns.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to misgender you.

[Zenge]

Falcon Zenge is T v T change my mind


Spoiler you can't

I’m trying. I don’t think Falcon has approached a single one of not just my interactions but several others from a scummy perspective. The push against PSV for asking your opinion of Falcon was atrociously scummy.

[Seanzie]

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

What tale does it tell?

I'll let you get caught up, and then will field questions.

I see you answered this, but I'm still not sure I understand your point in pointing out zenge's tagging AM for a question

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Oooo, care to eleaborate?

You've been dancing around the Zenge/Falcon/Sloonei drama but have seemingly been in every camp at this point

OoO fun! You're actually pushing me.

I ask you to put yourself into my POV. Falcon is not an option. This leaves Zenge/Sloonei. Both have done sushish things, but meh...

Do I really feel like I'm dancing? I feel like I'm nipping. To great effect.

Except that your POV isn't that falcon is town, it's that wolf falcon isn't worth your D1 attention.

Knowing Zenge's meta, I don't think it's possible he and Sloonei are W/W.

You are dancing from one to the other and willfully ignoring the third. That's three beats, so I guess it's a waltz or a muneut... though you seem spicy, so I wouldn't put a Fandango outside of your wheelhouse.

I will accept "waltzing around the Zenge/Falcon/Sloonei drama". Especially if it is an endless waltz.

[Scotty]

This sounds like a very passive approach and does not match what I've heard others say about them.

I mean I guess the way I describe it is a little dry.

I’m not really sure where this line of questioning is trying to go. Can you just say what you want to say instead of dancing around it and answer my original question?

Why is my asking AM for her opinion “weird” and “Potentially outting”?

Because I wonder if the intensity that AM is known for sometimes ends up on townies, and if your asking AM didn't have any agenda attached.

I asked her because she’s a smart savvy player and her opinion matters to me, and considering I’m villager reading her, and Dyachei has village read her (Dyachei who has never been wrong on their read of AM in like 7+ years), I can trust that it’s an honest read from a villager (outside of a AM/Dyachei W/W world, which I don’t think is likely here).

That being said, AM is never anyone’s pit bull. She pushes people independently. She frequently wolf reads people and finds separate people to wolf read and push, separate from other peoples pushes.

I'm a pitbull. That's the animal that I asked JJJ to give me, and I got it.

You’re lookin mighty human, mr bull

The hair on top is right, but on bottom... I've definitely let my inner animal go.

[Scotty]

Let it also be known that I’d *prefer* a syndiCat player to go first.

I was thinking about this, and as a game structural standpoint, I believe there to be an even number of players in each community on the mafia team. So I feel fine about one of my community going first

Why would you believe this, about the composition of the bad team? The host said in his roles post that there were more than two factions:

Setup Information

The setup is probably best described as "semi-closed" (which may be synonymous with semi-open, but let's say it favors the closed side). The exact roles contained in the game are not explicitly public, but you shall be made aware of the kinds of roles that are possible.

Roles have been constructed from a pseudo-random process involving rolls of the dice (so I rolled the roles!) to gather ideas and build the skeleton of the game. From there though, the hosts have tweaked and tampered as they see fit to manage the fairest balance and most fun prospects we reasonably can. I will provide you with certain "rules" that apply to the design of the game, and you can trust that these rules are true and unchanging. They are as follows:

~ The game contains more than two factions.
~ The vast majority of role abilities can apply to members of any faction.
~ No player will ever have their faction changed (e.g., there is no recruitment mechanism).
~ Animal characters/flavor are entirely unrelated to both alignment/affiliation and role abilities.
~ Role abilities may exist in essentially any combination regardless of faction, if they exist at all. Solve each other, not the hosts.

I saw someone else speculating last night on bad team size. Would you consider a few 3P players a "Faction"? Or do you think it could be multiball? We don't really do multiball games here anymore, do they do them at SDN?

And from a perspective of being good hosts, I don't disagree with you that it would be more gracious, I guess, to not yeet new members on their first game here, but shouldn't you want to get the most suspish person in the context of this set up?

While I agree that Dennis has tweaked me a bit, do you honestly find him most suspish at this point? More than Pyxxy, who seems to be 3P hunting?

I am really not feeling this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reading back over, I think Sloonei behaving as he did is NAI. He hasn't said enough outside of Falcongate otherwise to call a read for me. I think Falcon would have backed off sooner if he was bad, and would not have returned to the discussion. I think he's better than many at backing away from suspicions without getting pushback for it.

Zenge is a bit paradoxical for me. I think he believes what he's saying re Falcon. But I am not so sure I get the same sincerity in his exchanges with Sloonei.

Sort of like how the 3p party/group in the GoC was a separate faction, I suppose. It’s just my justification in allowing myself to go after one of my own community members.

And yea, obviously we should be eliminating the most suspicious. I’m not holding back on who I find suspicious, just who I’d rather eliminate today

[Seanzie]

Quick question at large; have lots of you played together before? It seems that way; most of the SDN are new to me, but not to everyone at TS.

I know everyone on the TS side, and Dyachei, Santygrass and NateTheLesser on the SDN side as they've all played here at TS. I'm guessing others have played with eachother either at SDN or at oter sites like MU.

[Seanzie]

I'd elim Scotty.

[Mayo the Mayo]

Let it also be known that I’d *prefer* a syndiCat player to go first.

I was thinking about this, and as a game structural standpoint, I believe there to be an even number of players in each community on the mafia team. So I feel fine about one of my community going first

Why would you believe this, about the composition of the bad team? The host said in his roles post that there were more than two factions:

Setup Information

The setup is probably best described as "semi-closed" (which may be synonymous with semi-open, but let's say it favors the closed side). The exact roles contained in the game are not explicitly public, but you shall be made aware of the kinds of roles that are possible.

Roles have been constructed from a pseudo-random process involving rolls of the dice (so I rolled the roles!) to gather ideas and build the skeleton of the game. From there though, the hosts have tweaked and tampered as they see fit to manage the fairest balance and most fun prospects we reasonably can. I will provide you with certain "rules" that apply to the design of the game, and you can trust that these rules are true and unchanging. They are as follows:

~ The game contains more than two factions.
~ The vast majority of role abilities can apply to members of any faction.
~ No player will ever have their faction changed (e.g., there is no recruitment mechanism).
~ Animal characters/flavor are entirely unrelated to both alignment/affiliation and role abilities.
~ Role abilities may exist in essentially any combination regardless of faction, if they exist at all. Solve each other, not the hosts.

I saw someone else speculating last night on bad team size. Would you consider a few 3P players a "Faction"? Or do you think it could be multiball? We don't really do multiball games here anymore, do they do them at SDN?

And from a perspective of being good hosts, I don't disagree with you that it would be more gracious, I guess, to not yeet new members on their first game here, but shouldn't you want to get the most suspish person in the context of this set up?

While I agree that Dennis has tweaked me a bit, do you honestly find him most suspish at this point? More than Pyxxy, who seems to be 3P hunting?

I am really not feeling this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reading back over, I think Sloonei behaving as he did is NAI. He hasn't said enough outside of Falcongate otherwise to call a read for me. I think Falcon would have backed off sooner if he was bad, and would not have returned to the discussion. I think he's better than many at backing away from suspicions without getting pushback for it.

Zenge is a bit paradoxical for me. I think he believes what he's saying re Falcon. But I am not so sure I get the same sincerity in his exchanges with Sloonei.

We go through phases, but multiball isn’t uncommon at sdn.

Is your inability to read falcon this game explained if they are 3p?


Can you explain your pyxxy read a bit. A few things felt a bit off yesterday, but I don’t know them. Not everyone plays as straightforward a game as I do.

I think your take on zenge is correct. Which is sort of what I was getting at last night. I get the falcon thing, but I think the sloo argument is a misunderstanding.

[SportPonies]

I’m town reading because despite the reads being on NAI posts it felt like a genuine effort!

Calling me a hippogriff because I playbowed and highposted is genuine effort?

To be fair, I don't think I've ever seen you post this much in a game.

I'm not complaining, I'm just used to you being roughly as far behind as I am.

You’re missing the point of that statement lol

But yeah, I was off yesterday and am off today. Helps that this game isn’t moving at breakneck Dubz speed too.

[Mayo the Mayo]

I’m town reading because despite the reads being on NAI posts it felt like a genuine effort!

Calling me a hippogriff because I playbowed and highposted is genuine effort?

To be fair, I don't think I've ever seen you post this much in a game.

I'm not complaining, I'm just used to you being roughly as far behind as I am.

You’re missing the point of that statement lol

But yeah, I was off yesterday and am off today. Helps that this game isn’t moving at breakneck Dubz speed too.

I had called out the other silliness before. Somehow likable in-laws seems more fantastical than hippogriffs.

Don’t tell mrs mayo that part

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

I mean... Maybe. Idk. I'm currently torn on falcon. I think Sloonei really just doesn't want to talk to you tbh

That’s fair. But for the second I’ve started this Falcon push they came in to shut it down, claiming “That’s just Falcon” and have refused time and time again to not really answer any questions about my interaction with Falcon.

Like if you’re going to defend someone you think is village wouldn’t you actually take apart the merits of the case against them instead of giving fake politicians answers that never actually answer the question?

I said that that there was no value in continuing our dialogue, but I think this post highlights where the problem is occurring. I also don't want to come across as though I am avoiding talking to you or that I have found our interactions unpleasant. When I said that there was no value in continuing, I meant that at face value. I felt as though I had said all that I could, and that responding to further questioning would just send us circling even further around the same questions and answers, wasting time and posts and energy.

But I think I can take another crack at it that might help to resolve whatever issue. Because I think this post points to a potential blind spot in your reasoning, at least from my perspective. I'll break it down in two parts.

Part the first:

But from the second I’ve started this Falcon push they came in to shut it down

First, I did not arrive the second your Falcon push started. I came along later. You and falcon first started butting heads around midnight my time last night. I chimed in at 1 PM this afternoon my time. But that's pedantry which is not essential to my point. More importantly, I emphatically did not try to "shut it down." I have stressed on multiple occasions throughout our entire dialogue that you should feel free to continue pushing Falcon. Here are the receipts:

Spoiler: show

I am not telling you to drop it either. I simply wanted to tell you that the things you are objecting to in falcon's play are not out of character for him. You and he may continue to feel each other out if you think it is necessary.

I do know falcon better than you, and I was trying to weigh in with some background knowledge. I was not trying to tell you to stop talking to or about him.

I encourage you to continue to the extent that you feel is necessary in order to be satisfied with your read on falcon.

I even stressed very early on that my only intention was to provide you with more context about Falcon as mafia player:

I am simply trying to provide context about how falcon usually engages with the thread early on in games.

Part the second:

Like if you’re going to defend someone you think is village wouldn’t you actually take apart the merits of the case against them

This is where the brunt of my frustration kicks in, and where I think you are getting lost. In the first part of this post, you accuse me of defending Falcon too much. In this second part, you accuse me of not defending Falcon enough. And the reason for that is what I have just endeavored to illustrate above: I am not trying to defend falcon at all. That was never my intention for a single second, and I have gone to considerable lengths to make that very clear. My continued engagement with this subject has been out of an interest in finding common ground with you. But, at every step, you have held onto the notion that I am making an effort to silence, dismiss, or obfuscate your read on Falcon. If anything, I have amplified it while also sticking myself in the middle of it.

If my intention was to defend Falcon, as you allege, then you are correct that I would "actually take apart the merits of the case against them." That would be the prudent thing to do. But this has never been of interest to me, because I am not here to defend Falcon.

I have responded to all of your questions accordingly. I have attempted to stress each time that I have little input with regards to the actual substance of your interactions with Falcon. It was a very typical Day 1 headbutt. You both nitpicked each other's words and made sweeping accusations based on snap judgments about each other's characters. Mafia 101. I have not engaged with it in more detail because I genuinely do not think there is much substance to the argument itself. But it has clearly generated a lot of substance, so it was a wonderful opening play.

also: I use male pronouns.

Can you tldr this for a girl who can't read this much without physical problems

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'd elim Scotty.

Would you elim me?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Holy shit I caught up

Now I'm going to bed

[SportPonies]

If I unvoted right now it could be a three way tie :heckyeah:

[Zenge]

Holy shit I caught up

Now I'm going to bed

Will you be back before close?

[Zenge]

If I unvoted right now it could be a three way tie :heckyeah:

Why are you even voting for Miranda? What’s your endgame here?