[END] Literal WWerecreatures Invade Syndicate Zoo: An SDN Crossover Game

[MacDougall]

i guess its not impossible for marmot to be main pack wolf and be vigged and janitoredd by another main pack wolf

but this is a really bad play from the mafia

but mafia sometimes makes bad plays. i dunno lol

If the main mafia pack poisoned me and factional killed Marmot and janitored it would that be so strange?

He had Falcon in his scumreads and was pretty content with offing Creature. Maybe Marmot and I were just strictly threatening them more than others and they chose to kill him specifically BECAUSE they could janitor it and keep people presuming he was mafia instead of evaluating in town Marmot worlds or letting him have another day.

Hell maybe they rolecopped him n1 and found out he was some hectic role too.

[MacDougall]

@S~V~S SBPC equals sort by post count.

[tutuu]

i guess its not impossible for marmot to be main pack wolf and be vigged and janitoredd by another main pack wolf

but this is a really bad play from the mafia

but mafia sometimes makes bad plays. i dunno lol

If the main mafia pack poisoned me and factional killed Marmot and janitored it would that be so strange?

He had Falcon in his scumreads and was pretty content with offing Creature. Maybe Marmot and I were just strictly threatening them more than others and they chose to kill him specifically BECAUSE they could janitor it and keep people presuming he was mafia instead of evaluating in town Marmot worlds or letting him have another day.

Hell maybe they rolecopped him n1 and found out he was some hectic role too.

yeah very reasonable

i think marmot is ... not guaranteed town, but i think more likely to be town than not

[tutuu]

its not impossible marmot was the even-night town vig that shot falcon

[Dennis]

hi

without thinking about it too hard

and i still havent read most of the game

my knee jerk reaction, just from reading today's posts

is to think that i should be looking at these slots

lawpy, genny, nate, santy, SAR

I dunno I know me and nate are supposed to have a difference check but I think he's town

Is a mafia broadcaster a thing even? And like, the only reason we're meant to have a diff check anyways is cause he voted me D1 which I don't think means anything anymore

Hmm. Intriguing.

I know right

[tutuu]

its not impossible marmot was the even-night town vig that shot falcon

so thats why they killed him and janitored him, as mac suggested

[tutuu]

they*

[tutuu]

so whats our consensus scumreads? Lawpy? Is genny in there too, or is it just me?

Do u guys agree with forcing (whoever it is there) to claim their roles?

i think forcing people to claim in a semi-open setup with loud (confirmable) night actions (and no anti-claim mechanic) is extremely good

very rare to have this opportunity to abuse the system in a mafia game. i dont see a drawback

games are easily broken by claiming, i an attest to this as a host while trying to design my games

jay said "please solve the players not the host" in the OP but i dont believe him

i *know* how hard it is to make games unbreakable by claiming

[Seanzie]

so whats our consensus scumreads? Lawpy? Is genny in there too, or is it just me?

Do u guys agree with forcing (whoever it is there) to claim their roles?

i think forcing people to claim in a semi-open setup with loud (confirmable) night actions (and no anti-claim mechanic) is extremely good

very rare to have this opportunity to abuse the system in a mafia game. i dont see a drawback

What do you hope to learn from the claims? Is it simply to limit the ability of suspected people to fakeclaim things later?

My one issue is that there are enough safe fakeclaims that there really isn't that much info we can squeeze out of claims.

[tutuu]

Is it simply to limit the ability of suspected people to fakeclaim things later?

yeah, and also take advantage of the loud (confirmable) night actions

i.e a lot of roles leave feedback that they normally dont

so its a rare advantage to confirm them

for instance neon is confirmed roleblocker by dennis. her claim is believable and made her towny

so forcing ppl to claim not just to attack the scum but it might also help find town

[tutuu]

My one issue is that there are enough safe fakeclaims that there really isn't that much info we can squeeze out of claims.

unless i misunderstood, almost every role leaves a feedback via their night action

and if they fake claim a tracking/motion detector - esque role - well - they still would be forced to make a believable night report

the mafia poisoner and the mafia janitor have no safe fakeclaims (unless their community role, which seems to be similar to the base roles, sometimes) - unless that lets them forge a fakeclaim

[Dennis]

Alright I give up idk what to do anymore

I spent day 1 and 2 defending the only 2 flipped mafia

I've got like no real scumreads anymore

AND ENGLISH STARTS IN 3 MINUTES AND I DONT WANNA GO

Someone help

[tutuu]

Alright I give up idk what to do anymore

I spent day 1 and 2 defending the only 2 flipped mafia

I've got like no real scumreads anymore

AND ENGLISH STARTS IN 3 MINUTES AND I DONT WANNA GO

Someone help

im confident ur town, vote genny with me

[Dennis]

Alright I give up idk what to do anymore

I spent day 1 and 2 defending the only 2 flipped mafia

I've got like no real scumreads anymore

AND ENGLISH STARTS IN 3 MINUTES AND I DONT WANNA GO

Someone help

im confident ur town, vote genny with me

Okay, but why if you don't mind [VOTE: genny] aubergine

[Dennis]

Also why are you confident im town

[tutuu]

Alright I give up idk what to do anymore

I spent day 1 and 2 defending the only 2 flipped mafia

I've got like no real scumreads anymore

AND ENGLISH STARTS IN 3 MINUTES AND I DONT WANNA GO

Someone help

im confident ur town, vote genny with me

Okay, but why if you don't mind [VOTE: genny] aubergine

genny:

-hasnt shown signs of being town. i dont think anyone townreads her unless i missed it

-was suspected by PSV who was killed last night

-is a SDNer who are making up a big (or all) portion of the remaining wolves due to PSV and not Mac/Sloonei dying last night

-didnt express curiosity / care / interest at why i'm scumreading her yesterday

-TMI'd mayo town during a timeframe in which Mayo wasn't obv town, (he was PoE at the time), and her reasons for townreading Mayo was seen as sketchy, not just by me, but by PSV too

[tutuu]

Also why are you confident im town

i think dennis is very easy to read too. im employing a new strategy:

if dennis cares about looking towny, he's mafia

if dennis doesnt care about looking towny, he's town

i iso'd him and he seems to not care particularly, ergo i think he's town

[tutuu]

its not impossible marmot was the even-night town vig that shot falcon

nvm it is impossible since neon roleblocked them n2

[Mayo the Mayo]

its not impossible marmot was the even-night town vig that shot falcon

nvm it is impossible since neon roleblocked them n2

Explain pls?


I think I missed who was role blocked and how that would protect marmot

[Mayo the Mayo]

its not impossible marmot was the even-night town vig that shot falcon

nvm it is impossible since neon roleblocked them n2

Explain pls?


I think I missed who was role blocked and how that would protect marmot

Nvm. Completely misread that.

[SARdoghandler]

I would caution against using claims as clearing at most levels as on SDN we often have designs to combat this - mods providing fakeclaims for wolves, giving traditional town roles to wolves and vice versa, and otherwise messing with "expected" mechanics. Not saying it may not be useful, but should be interpreted with caution.

I'm also still tinfoiling that we have two separate scum factions. Since sdn plays werewolf and syndicats play mafia, I was thinking we might have wolves (were animals) and mafia in this game rather than 3p/sk as the other faction

[Lawpy]

I think i underestimated my health situation, i’ll try to respond when i get the time.

[Sloonei]

~ Role abilities may exist in essentially any combination regardless of faction, if they exist at all. Solve each other, not the hosts.

I would also caution against clearing people based purely on role abilities. How people use their roles will be more telling.

[S~V~S]

@MacDougall

Mac Said

SVS - Reserved townlean. They look very clean for this whole thing... almost too clean. I dunno. Town until further notice but I have my worries.

There's no pleasing you for me, lol. "Almost too clean"

That's Ok. A suspicion a day keeps the NK away.

I kinda agree re Sloonei, I thought him trying to cool down that situation was maybe a bit moddish of him at the time. It felt like he was trying to cool down the thread. But I had some bubbles about him early; it almost seemed like was doing some day zero post padding along with Dennis, although Dennis was much more obvs.

I mean everyone was lolcatting a bit, but Dennis made like 12 posts in a row. So I'm rereading Dennis. with flips in mind.

You need to just ignore me when I do this honestly. Going back and forth on players constantly is just a thing I do no matter what.

With all due respect and <3, you are hard to ignore lol.

And I know that when I mention someone, in an "I am concerned" way, and they don't address it, it makes me go hmmm a bit, and look at them a bit harder. So I tend to reply to those myself, even if it makes me look defensive.

And I have learned that you like to make reaction tests, like in Muppets. So I'll try to ignore you, but you have to know that isn't easy

[S~V~S]

i guess its not impossible for marmot to be main pack wolf and be vigged and janitoredd by another main pack wolf

but this is a really bad play from the mafia

but mafia sometimes makes bad plays. i dunno lol

If the main mafia pack poisoned me and factional killed Marmot and janitored it would that be so strange?

He had Falcon in his scumreads and was pretty content with offing Creature. Maybe Marmot and I were just strictly threatening them more than others and they chose to kill him specifically BECAUSE they could janitor it and keep people presuming he was mafia instead of evaluating in town Marmot worlds or letting him have another day.

Hell maybe they rolecopped him n1 and found out he was some hectic role too.

I thought about this alot today, and I think he was not a Werebaddie. If there is another Mafia faction, maybe. But my main reason for susssing him was I felt he was associated with Creature, who was a Werebaddie. And if he's not teamed with them, I have no real reason to think he was bad.

I think he was likely the Werekill. Since we have no way of knowing, I also think spending a lot of time trying to solve this kill will just be a distraction. Which, from the Werebaddie perspective, is probably why they made it.

I am not sure I understand the dyachei/Lawpy case. Although I recall it was dyacheis post that led Marmot to give Creature a pass. Mayo feels pretty towny to me, so I want to read back on Lawpy to see why he's making that vote. I didn't have a chance to finish catching up to last night so I need to do that.

[S~V~S]

I think i underestimated my health situation, i’ll try to respond when i get the time.

Sorry to hear this, I hope you're OK.

[S~V~S]

Spoiler: show

Was it a poisoned apple?

No pls

Then what fruit basket might you have sent to your #1 wolf read?

Fruits by their nature don’t do anything but be consumed pls.

I was also reevaluating during the night to see if i can give you a benefit of doubt from your later posts so acting on you with fruits that don’t have any function besides serving as a sort of visitor role seemed like the best bet.

How would me receiving functionless fruit give you useful information into my affiliation??

Was your master plan to ask me about the fruit, and I just happened to ask you what you did last night first?

Did your write your name on it?

Do you know what a fruit vendor is pls?

A convenient fake claim in this instance.

You said it was to reassess my affiliation.

How does sending me fruit help you reassess me?

We recently had a game here with a Mafia Fruit Vendor. Just saying.

[tutuu]

@Lawpy there are no fruit vendors in the base roles provided in the OP

so thats your community role

whats your base role?

[S~V~S]

creature *should* be a polarized player that hates wolfing, is not as good at wolfing as towning, hyper posts as town and likes to get depressed and post that town depression itt, and go under the radar as mafia (these arent my takes, im echoing what i know is the consensus on how to read him)

it lines up with his ISO + it lines up with my thought that the wolfteam here has people from different communities who dont know each other, making it awkward / out of comfort zone to wolf together with so many unfamiliar faces

so players who hate wolfing already will probably be extremely demotivated to wolf in this game

This is interesting, I didn’t find creature’s ISO to be particularly sus, but if what you’re saying is true to how they usually approach these games then that lines up with what we are seeing

You didn't find him voting for you for no reason four minutes into the day at least odd?

I did, I believe I addressed it in a recent post

I looked and didn't find that. Can you link me to it?

[MacDougall]

Game is worryingly quiet tbh. If we have a mid game lull and the people not posting are mostly town this will go pear shaped pretty quick.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall

Mac Said

SVS - Reserved townlean. They look very clean for this whole thing... almost too clean. I dunno. Town until further notice but I have my worries.

There's no pleasing you for me, lol. "Almost too clean"

That's Ok. A suspicion a day keeps the NK away.

I kinda agree re Sloonei, I thought him trying to cool down that situation was maybe a bit moddish of him at the time. It felt like he was trying to cool down the thread. But I had some bubbles about him early; it almost seemed like was doing some day zero post padding along with Dennis, although Dennis was much more obvs.

I mean everyone was lolcatting a bit, but Dennis made like 12 posts in a row. So I'm rereading Dennis. with flips in mind.

You need to just ignore me when I do this honestly. Going back and forth on players constantly is just a thing I do no matter what.

With all due respect and <3, you are hard to ignore lol.

And I know that when I mention someone, in an "I am concerned" way, and they don't address it, it makes me go hmmm a bit, and look at them a bit harder. So I tend to reply to those myself, even if it makes me look defensive.

And I have learned that you like to make reaction tests, like in Muppets. So I'll try to ignore you, but you have to know that isn't easy

Well I more meant the sussing of me for suspecting you. It's like sassing the sun for rising.

"Ah sun there you are again. It's every morning with you! You're incorrigible!"

[SARdoghandler]

Game is worryingly quiet tbh. If we have a mid game lull and the people not posting are mostly town this will go pear shaped pretty quick.

And here I was thinking wow I might actually have a chance to read all of today haha

[tutuu]

I would caution against using claims as clearing at most levels as on SDN we often have designs to combat this - mods providing fakeclaims for wolves, giving traditional town roles to wolves and vice versa, and otherwise messing with "expected" mechanics. Not saying it may not be useful, but should be interpreted with caution.

I'm also still tinfoiling that we have two separate scum factions. Since sdn plays werewolf and syndicats play mafia, I was thinking we might have wolves (were animals) and mafia in this game rather than 3p/sk as the other faction

Game is worryingly quiet tbh. If we have a mid game lull and the people not posting are mostly town this will go pear shaped pretty quick.

And here I was thinking wow I might actually have a chance to read all of today haha

im more confident in SAR town, she's pretty relaxed

[tutuu]

One thing I worry about is that the SDN players seem to more compulsively townread each other which is causing an overemphasis on Syndicators who don't do that. Yesterday and today all viable wagons have been Syndicators. SDNers are over emphasising on Syndicators and Syndicators are ignoring SDNers due to no SDNers having strong pushes onto other SDNers.

SDNers need to make more effort to find the wolves in the other SDNers or wolf SDNers are gonna skate.

SDNers.

This is a good point that I'd like to see all SDNers respond to in some way.

As long as it isn't Zenge, PSV, or Miranda, then I think any of the other SDNers are within a wolf meta currently.

Santy gets eyebrows for sussing me because he should know this is pretty stock normal play. He's seen me wolf somewhat recently and this ain't it. Genny not being at least a little here and sassy is concerning, but she is usually a low poster like I am so also could be overwhelmed. I used to have a very good track record of reading her and nothing has stood out as village genny thus far on iso. Mayo feels village for tone but he's a good, sneaky wolf.

I can't read Nate or Lawpy well (esp Lawp - I tunneled him hard last game we played both as village) so dipping out of that for now

her reads also align with mine

[tutuu]

@genny @santygrass who are the wolves?

[NateTheLesser]

I feel like there's a post restriction here.

There's not a post restrictor, unless it's something an inventor cooked up.

This actually feels like a genuine slip. I believe he didn't know Creature had the role. But I also want to know why you dismissed the idea completely @NateTheLesser?

Because there's a list of possible roles in one of the intro posts, and post restrictor isn't one of them. I forgot about the possible community roles though.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Ded

[NateTheLesser]

I'll also point out this VC from earlier in D1:

miranda - 4 (Sporty, Wilgy/tutuu, santy, Scotty)
Dennis - 2 (AM, Neon)
Nate - 2 (falcon, Creature)
Zenge - 1 (Nate)
AM - 1 (Seanzie)
falcon - 1 (Zenge)
Sporty - 1 (pyxxy)
Marmot - 1 (Sloonei)

what is your conclusion from it?

That both flipped wolves were pushing me when falcon was under pressure from Zenge, which should be relevant to anyone who thinks I could be partnered.

[NateTheLesser]

Everyone has received a special broadcast!

Sloonei w

Anyway, here's some music to vibe to:

Is this mech or a read?

VCA. I was thinking w!Sloonei would make w!falcon less likely though, so I need to recalibrate with the other flips.

you're hard claiming right? (see my post above)

Yeah I claimed yesterday, I'm a Broadcaster. I don't have an extra community role.

[NateTheLesser]

Alright, catching up beyond pings. Should have a lot more time to be on thread for the rest of the phase.

[Mayo the Mayo]

I think i underestimated my health situation, i’ll try to respond when i get the time.

Feel better pls

[NateTheLesser]

Game is worryingly quiet tbh. If we have a mid game lull and the people not posting are mostly town this will go pear shaped pretty quick.

And here I was thinking wow I might actually have a chance to read all of today haha

I had the same thought, I was like "oh good only 5 pages so far". But yeah, with how much KP has been flying around we might not have as much runway as it seems if things start to go sideways.

[Mayo the Mayo]

Spoiler: show

No pls

Then what fruit basket might you have sent to your #1 wolf read?

Fruits by their nature don’t do anything but be consumed pls.

I was also reevaluating during the night to see if i can give you a benefit of doubt from your later posts so acting on you with fruits that don’t have any function besides serving as a sort of visitor role seemed like the best bet.

How would me receiving functionless fruit give you useful information into my affiliation??

Was your master plan to ask me about the fruit, and I just happened to ask you what you did last night first?

Did your write your name on it?

Do you know what a fruit vendor is pls?

A convenient fake claim in this instance.

You said it was to reassess my affiliation.

How does sending me fruit help you reassess me?

We recently had a game here with a Mafia Fruit Vendor. Just saying.

Agreed, it wouldn’t clear him. I think it is a fake claim regardless.

The explanation didn’t really make sense. It should also be clear by now that I have a reason for asking him that question on the first place.

[Mayo the Mayo]

Game is worryingly quiet tbh. If we have a mid game lull and the people not posting are mostly town this will go pear shaped pretty quick.

And here I was thinking wow I might actually have a chance to read all of today haha

I had the same thought, I was like "oh good only 5 pages so far". But yeah, with how much KP has been flying around we might not have as much runway as it seems if things start to go sideways.

KP?

[NateTheLesser]

Game is worryingly quiet tbh. If we have a mid game lull and the people not posting are mostly town this will go pear shaped pretty quick.

And here I was thinking wow I might actually have a chance to read all of today haha

I had the same thought, I was like "oh good only 5 pages so far". But yeah, with how much KP has been flying around we might not have as much runway as it seems if things start to go sideways.

KP?

Kill Power. Blanket term for night kills / vigs / poisons / etc.

[SARdoghandler]

Spoiler: show

Then what fruit basket might you have sent to your #1 wolf read?

Fruits by their nature don’t do anything but be consumed pls.

I was also reevaluating during the night to see if i can give you a benefit of doubt from your later posts so acting on you with fruits that don’t have any function besides serving as a sort of visitor role seemed like the best bet.

How would me receiving functionless fruit give you useful information into my affiliation??

Was your master plan to ask me about the fruit, and I just happened to ask you what you did last night first?

Did your write your name on it?

Do you know what a fruit vendor is pls?

A convenient fake claim in this instance.

You said it was to reassess my affiliation.

How does sending me fruit help you reassess me?

We recently had a game here with a Mafia Fruit Vendor. Just saying.

Agreed, it wouldn’t clear him. I think it is a fake claim regardless.

The explanation didn’t really make sense. It should also be clear by now that I have a reason for asking him that question on the first place.

Sorry I may be being obtuse but fake claim in what sense? In that you didn't receive a fruit? In that you received a fruit but you don't think it was from Lawp? In that you received a fruit but you think it is a community role and not Lawp's important role? None of the above?

[Mayo the Mayo]

Game is worryingly quiet tbh. If we have a mid game lull and the people not posting are mostly town this will go pear shaped pretty quick.

And here I was thinking wow I might actually have a chance to read all of today haha

I had the same thought, I was like "oh good only 5 pages so far". But yeah, with how much KP has been flying around we might not have as much runway as it seems if things start to go sideways.

KP?

Kill Power. Blanket term for night kills / vigs / poisons / etc.

3 night kills, 2 day kills?

That will wrap things up pretty quickly

[SARdoghandler]

Game is worryingly quiet tbh. If we have a mid game lull and the people not posting are mostly town this will go pear shaped pretty quick.

And here I was thinking wow I might actually have a chance to read all of today haha

I had the same thought, I was like "oh good only 5 pages so far". But yeah, with how much KP has been flying around we might not have as much runway as it seems if things start to go sideways.

Makes me nervous too however hopefully the game is balanced such that we can't lose based on only one or two misyeets

Unless we've just been getting really unlucky with scum not hitting other scum and behind the scenes the mods are shaking their fists

[Mayo the Mayo]

So the plan was:

1. You have a fruit vendor ability that only worked 1 night so far

2. You decided to send it to me, with the hopes of asking about it

3. This information would somehow help you reassess my affiliation.

4. Entirely coincidentally, I had decided to start the day by tagging you on the thread and asking you what you did last night.

5. You quoted that post

6. Your response to that quote was independent of it

Please see the above summary of his ever changing story. Does any of that make sense to you?

Sorry I may be being obtuse but fake claim in what sense? In that you didn't receive a fruit? In that you received a fruit but you don't think it was from Lawp? In that you received a fruit but you think it is a community role and not Lawp's important role? None of the above?

I asked Lawwpy about his night activities. First post of the day.

I clearly have a good reason for asking that.

The reason isn't fruit related.

Fruit vendor seems like a pretty convenient fake claim, if you want to have a cover role.

It's already been shown that it couldn't be his character role (see other people's post above).

It may be his community role, but I doubt it. Either way, he did not respond truthfully to what he did last night.

[NateTheLesser]

So the plan was:

1. You have a fruit vendor ability that only worked 1 night so far

2. You decided to send it to me, with the hopes of asking about it

3. This information would somehow help you reassess my affiliation.

4. Entirely coincidentally, I had decided to start the day by tagging you on the thread and asking you what you did last night.

5. You quoted that post

6. Your response to that quote was independent of it

Please see the above summary of his ever changing story. Does any of that make sense to you?

Sorry I may be being obtuse but fake claim in what sense? In that you didn't receive a fruit? In that you received a fruit but you don't think it was from Lawp? In that you received a fruit but you think it is a community role and not Lawp's important role? None of the above?

I asked Lawwpy about his night activities. First post of the day.

I clearly have a good reason for asking that.

The reason isn't fruit related.

Fruit vendor seems like a pretty convenient fake claim, if you want to have a cover role.

It's already been shown that it couldn't be his character role (see other people's post above).

It may be his community role, but I doubt it. Either way, he did not respond truthfully to what he did last night.

Hmm. My biggest point for Lawpy is he was supportive of Zenge's falcon tunnel and didn't try to cast doubt on Zenge's alignment over it. But if he knew Zenge was right he'd also know that Zenge would never drop it, and never actually voted falcon..