The Syndicate 2014 Game of Champions [ENDGAME]

[Marmot]

"make a federal case" out of something is a common idiom in American English. I do not think two people using it is suspicious.

I'm not familiar with it. It's a term I've not seen in a mafia game I've played yet and now it appears written by two people.

But I neither believe or disbeleive the notion. I merely observe

I've finally bought that album you've got in your avi. I look forward to hearing it onceit arrives.

[Marmot]

I tend to ignore Llamas humor though ( ) and pay attention to his suspicions.

So we should pay attention. If you are NK'd it will probably be llama's doing?

Biggest ping so far. What are exactly are you trying to say here MM

llama is never lynched for being bad, only for being llama. So just like in Zelda, he might try to get SVS NK'd if he is bad, since she has good insight on his playing ability.

[zeek]

Not much to go on, all pretty standard D1 stuff.

"make a federal case" out of something is a common idiom in American English. I do not think two people using it is suspicious.

I'm not familiar with it. It's a term I've not seen in a mafia game I've played yet and now it appears written by two people.

But I neither believe or disbeleive the notion. I merely observe

We have no federal cases in Britain. Or maybe they all are. We don't use that terminology though, but I've heard it in movies.

[thellama73]

I tend to ignore Llamas humor though ( ) and pay attention to his suspicions.

So we should pay attention. If you are NK'd it will probably be llama's doing?

Biggest ping so far. What are exactly are you trying to say here MM

llama is never lynched for being bad, only for being llama. So just like in Zelda, he might try to get SVS NK'd if he is bad, since she has good insight on his playing ability.

Yeah, but now if SVS is NKed, everyone will think it was me, even though it wasn't, because I have no ability to NK people. Thanks, MM.

[Snow Dog]

Not much to go on, all pretty standard D1 stuff.

"make a federal case" out of something is a common idiom in American English. I do not think two people using it is suspicious.

I'm not familiar with it. It's a term I've not seen in a mafia game I've played yet and now it appears written by two people.

But I neither believe or disbeleive the notion. I merely observe

We have no federal cases in Britain. Or maybe they all are. We don't use that terminology though, but I've heard it in movies.

I think there is a misunderstanding. I have heard of a Federal case, but not as an expression used by people.

[thellama73]

Well, I'm telling yo guys that it is commonly used, and I should know because I English good.

[DharmaHelper]

Not much to go on, all pretty standard D1 stuff.

"make a federal case" out of something is a common idiom in American English. I do not think two people using it is suspicious.

I'm not familiar with it. It's a term I've not seen in a mafia game I've played yet and now it appears written by two people.

But I neither believe or disbeleive the notion. I merely observe

We have no federal cases in Britain. Or maybe they all are. We don't use that terminology though, but I've heard it in movies.

I think there is a misunderstanding. I have heard of a Federal case, but not as an expression used by people.

Now an expression used by goats, on the other hoof...

[thellama73]

Idioms, y'all.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/mak ... al+case+of

[DharmaHelper]

Alright already, calm down. Its a slightly less common phrase than you thought. No need to make a federal case out of it.

[thellama73]

Alright already, calm down. Its a slightly less common phrase than you thought. No need to make a federal case out of it.

I AM MAKING A FEDERAL CASE OUT OF IT!

[timmer]

Hey all, I'm on a funeral vacation until tomorrow evening. I'll be in as of them!

[thellama73]

Timmer comes off the Apollo Doctrine list! That leaves:
Mongoose
Lorab
and Hedgebaddie.

[DharmaHelper]

Timmer comes off the Apollo Doctrine list! That leaves:
Mongoose
Lorab
and Hedgebaddie.

Just so I'm clear, you are resolved to vote a low poster despite the discussion that has been going on?

[thellama73]

Timmer comes off the Apollo Doctrine list! That leaves:
Mongoose
Lorab
and Hedgebaddie.

Just so I'm clear, you are resolved to vote a low poster despite the discussion that has been going on?

Nope, I am not resolved on anything. We still have a long time before the vote is due, and a lot could happen.

[reywaS]

Its an odd mafia phrase that I'm not sure I've seen before. Twice in one game seems funky to me.

The implication is they may have used the phrase in btsc?

BTSC or ya know....maybe I read it earlier and it got stuck in my subconscious mind and when I went to grab a similar phrase from my mind that's the one I went for.

[reywaS]

Hey all, I'm on a funeral vacation until tomorrow evening. I'll be in as of them!

a funeral vacation? Now that is a phrase I've never heard before. Sorry for your loss or I'm sorry you are having a shitty vacation....whichever applies.

[Snow Dog]

Its an odd mafia phrase that I'm not sure I've seen before. Twice in one game seems funky to me.

The implication is they may have used the phrase in btsc?

BTSC or ya know....maybe I read it earlier and it got stuck in my subconscious mind and when I went to grab a similar phrase from my mind that's the one I went for.

Yeah. I'd thought of that possibility too.

[Long Con]

It's a common enough expression around these parts.

[timmer]

Yeah I'm in Montreal for my grandfather s funeral. I'm flying home tomorrow morning. I'm actually catching up right now as I've goy a bit of time. Day 0... my f fave game was motu, getting everyone to lynch me on days I couldn't be lynched, and avoiding being lynched on the other days. Zodac = awesome.

[Russtifinko]

Wow, the game has really begun now!

I personally don't find Long Con suspicious for finding reywaS suspicious, because I also didn't interpret DH's original post as being at him. From what I've seen of reywaS before, though, defensiveness isn't unusual. (No offense.)

In response to this from MM yesterday:

What changed your mind?

The question then becomes are you staying on task to avoid suspicion or staying on task in order to legitimately contribute?

Are you purposefully posing questions that llama will deem unanswerable?

Regardless, it is up to the reader to decide. Voting a (presumably) active player will more likely garner a reaction than voting a (presumably) inactive player.

It just gave me pause, I guess. Hope that helps.

[nijuukyugou]

Alright already, calm down. Its a slightly less common phrase than you thought. No need to make a federal case out of it.

I AM MAKING A FEDERAL CASE OUT OF IT!

This thread is killing me

I will comment with thoughts, even though many are things people have already said. I think more often than not in my experience, strange antics in the beginning don't produce baddies upon lynching, which is why (as others have said) that more avant-garde players tend to get lynched early as Civs because of it. I'm certainly not saying that weird behavior is never an indicator of baddieness, but I'm gonna have to agree with those that look in other directions (conformity, weird votes, etc). Early voting in large games often pings me (even if they're changeable), especially for Day 1 when we have hardly anything to go on but two days of observation available to us (I believe llama made this point, too).

Humorous antics are an often effective way to deflect suspicion in the early days of mafia games.

Can I assume since you responded with this 7 minutes after I voted for metalmarsh that this is directed at me? If it was directed at me, I must ask what makes it a humorous tactic? Why is it a humorous tactic as opposed to any legitimate attempt at playing the game?

I didn't read DH as specifically targeting you with that statement. You seem to me to be jumping to the defensive pretty quickly... especially since I didn't find your vote for MM particularly humourous or... antical?

Anyways, that made you my best choice for a Day One vote. *votes reywaS*

Actually, your reaction seems more fishy than his. I find that baddies like to vote early on, so they don't seem like bandwagoning. They find a small thing they can latch on to, and use it as a reason to vote. Granted, there are no really good reasons to vote on the first day, but I don't think I like the way you just jumped on him like that.

This also got my attention as fishy, for the same reasons. I'm not necessarily rarin' to vote for that reason just yet (seeing as I just commented on waiting and watching above ), but it's certainly something to keep in mind.

Oh the joys of Day 1.

[reywaS]

Wow, the game has really begun now!

I personally don't find Long Con suspicious for finding reywaS suspicious, because I also didn't interpret DH's original post as being at him. From what I've seen of reywaS before, though, defensiveness isn't unusual. (No offense.)

In response to this from MM yesterday:

What changed your mind?

The question then becomes are you staying on task to avoid suspicion or staying on task in order to legitimately contribute?

Are you purposefully posing questions that llama will deem unanswerable?

Regardless, it is up to the reader to decide. Voting a (presumably) active player will more likely garner a reaction than voting a (presumably) inactive player.

It just gave me pause, I guess. Hope that helps.

None taken! I'm proud of my sometimes over defensiveness.

[reywaS]

damnit that quote screw up really irks me

[Elohcin]

Humorous antics are an often effective way to deflect suspicion in the early days of mafia games.

Do you think so? My experience is that people often get lynched wrongly for humorous antics in the early days of mafia games, while baddies lay low or pretend to be helpful.

I see both sides of this matter. However, I think llama's view tends to be the case most often. I will probably vote for someone who is less active.

Why?

Sorry, I thought it was obvious. B/c from my experience, most baddies tend to lie low in the beginning. There are some crazy baddies like you MP who come out kickin' and screaming and mentioning teammates names right out of the gate though

I will be voting for the first person that votes for a low poster/non voter.

Unless something comes of the very interesting convo betwixt SVS & the Aardvark

Why?

I think the people voting for the people who voted for no reason have less reason to their vote than the people they are voting for.

I had to read this twice to fully comprehend it. I wholeheartedly agree

Its an odd mafia phrase that I'm not sure I've seen before. Twice in one game seems funky to me.

DH said this in reference to the "federal case" phrases. This was before the subject got silly and hilarious so if he wasn't joking, then it looks to me like he was seriously reaching which is suspicious to me.

[DharmaHelper]

I'll stand by that. It was a completely new phrase to me, and certainly within the mafia context. A ping for sure, as I said. I've also said its nothing at all worth throwing a vote behind. Not on its own anyway.

[DharmaHelper]

Bit of a read, but I knew there was something familiar about this exchange. Deja vu is a real bitch.

Roxy me being quiet doesn't make me bad but nice scum try. I find it funny that you keep trying to be so talkative about non related things to blend in. And if you are going to think I am bad and that people are "defending" me, on the roles list there is a team of 3 and a team of 2. I don't think Keterman would be that newbie of a player to defend his only teammate or MP by saying he doesn't feel I'm bad yet. That's ballsy to do on Day 2 and running now into Day 3 when there are so many people left. You're totally misreading me Roxy and I didn't lie about anything. Take the post how you will, but the reason I have been quiet is because I honestly don't have much else to say about the subject. I've said my piece and I don't need to repeat myself and go in circles with the same reason I did what I did when I posted. You all see what I said was my reasoning not voting for Sorsha and how it really got me feeling she wasn't bad with that frustrated civ post similar to my own I've made throughout mafia games here before. I could relate, I knew she wasn't bad and I didn't cast my vote for her. I voted the 2nd got getter to help her out and I didn't have feeling on SVS yet so it is a better chance that I save Sorsha (someone I was feeling good about) than SVS (could be a possible anything). Had I not been working and had some time to post before the lynch was ending, I could have said more but I was on my way home and just got off work to check on my phone.
That's all.

Why did you say "scum"?

No particular reason. Why?

It surprised me to see you use it, it is not a word we generally use. I searched your posts here, and this is the only time you have used it. I searched your posts at RM, and you have never used it there, either. It is not a word I would expect from you.

I'm just going to throw this out here and it may not be what you're thinking, but its something I thought while reading Your/Boogs exchange

Do you think Boogs said scum because he and Keterman are in BTSC and Keterman keeps using the mafiascum lingo and it rubbed off somehow?

Kind of.

I like reading what he writes; I like his word choice. I have never seen him use a word like "scum" before. Plus in the context of "scum try". I have seen that phrase used at other forums, we don't generally say "nice baddie try", we say "nice try, baddie". At least as I recall. I could be wrong about that, but it seems awkward to me.

Next thing you know, he'll start saying "the town" instead of "civvies". The saying is "When in Rome, do as the Romans do", not, "When the Romans are in Greece, the Greeks do as the Romans do". Surprising to see he picked that up from someone in a thread, when he never picked it up from K4J or FZ.

Do you think I am wrong? Keterman is defending him & trying to dicredit Roxy pretty hard, imo. School me, oh Great Dharma

[DharmaHelper]

Again I should say nothing I find overly suspicious at this moment in time, but I just thought the coincidence was funny. The same sort of scenario coming up in the game that I won to get to this game, now coming up in this game. Cosmically improbable, yet here we are.

As it stands I'm mulling over a vote for LC.

[S~V~S]

I think the people voting for the people who voted for no reason have less reason to their vote than the people they are voting for.

I don't think this is true. Why do you say that?

I don't think it's true, either. I hope TH comes back and answers you.

DH, I know I am a fool for this, but I am going to ask you to elaborate here. You don't take time to search forums for no reason. I am seeing a tenuous connection between my behavior in Misfits (where I was a baddie & Boogs a civ, though Keterman was bad) and yours in this game. But I am sure you did not go to all that effort to pull a quote where you are behaving as I did when I was a baddie. So stop with the vague and make your point, eh?

[thellama73]

I don't think I will be voting for either DH or SVS today.

[S~V~S]

I don't think I will be voting for either DH or SVS today.

Certainly no one has ever accused either of us of being a low poster

[DharmaHelper]

I think the people voting for the people who voted for no reason have less reason to their vote than the people they are voting for.

I don't think this is true. Why do you say that?

I don't think it's true, either. I hope TH comes back and answers you.

DH, I know I am a fool for this, but I am going to ask you to elaborate here. You don't take time to search forums for no reason. I am seeing a tenuous connection between my behavior in Misfits (where I was a baddie & Boogs a civ, though Keterman was bad) and yours in this game. But I am sure you did not go to all that effort to pull a quote where you are behaving as I did when I was a baddie. So stop with the vague and make your point, eh?

I don't think I was being vague at all. I noticed the discussion in *this* game about the phrase "making a federal case" and remembered the discussion in Misfits about "scum tell". As I said, I found the coincidence funny. I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone over it, I just thought that it was something sort-of-kind-of poetic, having that happen in two games.

[S~V~S]

What this situation reminded me of was a game at LP, Return to Storyville. At one point in that game, both Illy & I used the same word, an odd word. Someone jumped on us, thinking it was a slip. It wasn't~ I was a civ, and it turned out Illy was as well. Generally that kind of thing is a nothing, and I only recall pushing such a thing, two people using the same wording equalling BTS, like the quote you pulled, when I was bad.

I would not compare a specifically mafia term, like "scum tell", with a fairly common phrase (if antiquated, xo to you Boom) outside of Mafia. I was waiting for you to drop the other shoe here, but you claim there is no other shoe. I will keep that in mind, and hope everyone else does, too, should another shoe appear.

But it is my policy to assume there ALWAYS is another shoe, DH. It's a good policy.

[DharmaHelper]

I don't think I will be voting for either DH or SVS today.

Somewhere north of 10% of the overall posts ain't too bad if I do say so myself.

[thellama73]

I wasn't referencing post count with that comment, you know. I am a deeper, more multifaceted person than you give me credit for.

[juliets]

Again I should say nothing I find overly suspicious at this moment in time, but I just thought the coincidence was funny. The same sort of scenario coming up in the game that I won to get to this game, now coming up in this game. Cosmically improbable, yet here we are.

As it stands I'm mulling over a vote for LC.

DH can you expand a little on why you are mulling over a vote for LC? What are you seeing?

[DharmaHelper]

Again I should say nothing I find overly suspicious at this moment in time, but I just thought the coincidence was funny. The same sort of scenario coming up in the game that I won to get to this game, now coming up in this game. Cosmically improbable, yet here we are.

As it stands I'm mulling over a vote for LC.

DH can you expand a little on why you are mulling over a vote for LC? What are you seeing?

I don't like his exchange with Rey. I'll let you go back and read it for yourself, but it just did not ring true to me. LC is a good enough player not to want to rush into things with such slapdash and paper-thin logic

[Made]

This is going to be a long game ain't it.....
I remember the scum conversation. While i've never heard the phrase "federal case" other's have so it's probably whatever. imo it doesn't helps to get into semantics, what might prove to be more useful however is name usage. Whether a person typically mentions their teammates early on, or pretends they don't exist.

Insertnamehere- anyway you could modify your code to check for name usage and frequency in games?

[Turnip Head]

I think the people voting for the people who voted for no reason have less reason to their vote than the people they are voting for.

I don't think this is true. Why do you say that?

I don't think it's true, either. I hope TH comes back and answers you.

Because it's Day 1, so I'm not suspicious of MM or Rey voting early. I think that overreacting to early joke votes/posts on Day 1 has historically bad results. I also feel that MM and Rey are both known for their zaniness. If Vompatti suddenly joins the game and subsequently votes for himself, will that be suspicious too?

[Made]

Again I should say nothing I find overly suspicious at this moment in time, but I just thought the coincidence was funny. The same sort of scenario coming up in the game that I won to get to this game, now coming up in this game. Cosmically improbable, yet here we are.

As it stands I'm mulling over a vote for LC.

DH can you expand a little on why you are mulling over a vote for LC? What are you seeing?

huh...asking a lot of questions this game are we...

Just a thought-- do players conform to their own play style benefit themselves further when they are mafia or just because of predisposition?
Not directed at you in particular Juliet, but also Llama and MP, 3 players who have very unique and recognizable play styles.

[juliets]

Again I should say nothing I find overly suspicious at this moment in time, but I just thought the coincidence was funny. The same sort of scenario coming up in the game that I won to get to this game, now coming up in this game. Cosmically improbable, yet here we are.

As it stands I'm mulling over a vote for LC.

DH can you expand a little on why you are mulling over a vote for LC? What are you seeing?

huh...asking a lot of questions this game are we...

Just a thought-- do players conform to their own play style benefit themselves further when they are mafia or just because of predisposition?
Not directed at you in particular Juliet, but also Llama and MP, 3 players who have very unique and recognizable play styles.

This is the first real question I've asked unless you consider this:

I just looked back at 2013's Game of Champions, and note that nobody voted for the game I hosted in the Day 0 poll, just as nobody has voted for any of the games I hosted in this Day 0 poll. Why are you people not giving good performances (your best performances!) in games I host?

I voted for your nomination for best host for side games, does that count?

My question for dh is because I haven't seen anything that pinged me and wondered if i had missed something.

[reywaS]

I think the people voting for the people who voted for no reason have less reason to their vote than the people they are voting for.

I don't think this is true. Why do you say that?

I don't think it's true, either. I hope TH comes back and answers you.

DH, I know I am a fool for this, but I am going to ask you to elaborate here. You don't take time to search forums for no reason. I am seeing a tenuous connection between my behavior in Misfits (where I was a baddie & Boogs a civ, though Keterman was bad) and yours in this game. But I am sure you did not go to all that effort to pull a quote where you are behaving as I did when I was a baddie. So stop with the vague and make your point, eh?

I don't think I was being vague at all. I noticed the discussion in *this* game about the phrase "making a federal case" and remembered the discussion in Misfits about "scum tell". As I said, I found the coincidence funny. I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone over it, I just thought that it was something sort-of-kind-of poetic, having that happen in two games.

This really makes me nervous about you to be honest. You say you just pointed this out because it was "kind of poetic"...and I guess the assumption in this is that you wanted everyone else to share your little chuckle. Maybe that's true, but I know that you are a really smart guy and certainly capable of being subtle with your motives. But when it comes down to it, what you actually did there was draw a connection in people's minds to SVS being a baddie.

[DharmaHelper]

I think the people voting for the people who voted for no reason have less reason to their vote than the people they are voting for.

I don't think this is true. Why do you say that?

I don't think it's true, either. I hope TH comes back and answers you.

DH, I know I am a fool for this, but I am going to ask you to elaborate here. You don't take time to search forums for no reason. I am seeing a tenuous connection between my behavior in Misfits (where I was a baddie & Boogs a civ, though Keterman was bad) and yours in this game. But I am sure you did not go to all that effort to pull a quote where you are behaving as I did when I was a baddie. So stop with the vague and make your point, eh?

I don't think I was being vague at all. I noticed the discussion in *this* game about the phrase "making a federal case" and remembered the discussion in Misfits about "scum tell". As I said, I found the coincidence funny. I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone over it, I just thought that it was something sort-of-kind-of poetic, having that happen in two games.

This really makes me nervous about you to be honest. You say you just pointed this out because it was "kind of poetic"...and I guess the assumption in this is that you wanted everyone else to share your little chuckle. Maybe that's true, but I know that you are a really smart guy and certainly capable of being subtle with your motives. But when it comes down to it, what you actually did there was draw a connection in people's minds to SVS being a baddie.

Thats a bit of a leap, considering the case in Misfits was that neither party had BTSC together, as they were accused of having. If anything the misfits incident weakens this one.

[Marmot]

Timmer comes off the Apollo Doctrine list! That leaves:
Mongoose
Lorab
and Hedgebaddie.

And Mongoose has posted in other places.

[reywaS]

I think the people voting for the people who voted for no reason have less reason to their vote than the people they are voting for.

I don't think this is true. Why do you say that?

I don't think it's true, either. I hope TH comes back and answers you.

DH, I know I am a fool for this, but I am going to ask you to elaborate here. You don't take time to search forums for no reason. I am seeing a tenuous connection between my behavior in Misfits (where I was a baddie & Boogs a civ, though Keterman was bad) and yours in this game. But I am sure you did not go to all that effort to pull a quote where you are behaving as I did when I was a baddie. So stop with the vague and make your point, eh?

I don't think I was being vague at all. I noticed the discussion in *this* game about the phrase "making a federal case" and remembered the discussion in Misfits about "scum tell". As I said, I found the coincidence funny. I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone over it, I just thought that it was something sort-of-kind-of poetic, having that happen in two games.

This really makes me nervous about you to be honest. You say you just pointed this out because it was "kind of poetic"...and I guess the assumption in this is that you wanted everyone else to share your little chuckle. Maybe that's true, but I know that you are a really smart guy and certainly capable of being subtle with your motives. But when it comes down to it, what you actually did there was draw a connection in people's minds to SVS being a baddie.

Thats a bit of a leap, considering the case in Misfits was that neither party had BTSC together, as they were accused of having. If anything the misfits incident weakens this one.

that wasn't my point. You drew a connection between SVS in this game and that one. It doesn't matter if it's a legitimate leap to make or not.

[DharmaHelper]

What connection is that? That she played both games?

Her role (as it relates to the incident in question, not her actual game role) was completely different in that game compared to this one. In Misfits, she took the "slip" and ran with it. Here, she is one of the players who used the phrase in question. There is no link there, nor did I offer up one.

I quoted SVS from Misfits because she was a party within the misfits example. If you can explain to me how I was trying to paint her as a baddie in this particular game based off of the Misfits game, I'm all ears.

That seems kind of flimsy, though.

[reywaS]

Yeah, you aren't getting my point. I wasn't saying that her behavior in that game in anyway related to her play in this game. My point was that you were mentioning SVS as a baddie from another game in this game and claiming that you weren't comparing the two games. You made a call back to a game where SVS was bad while also mentioning something she said in this game. You don't see how that could possibly paint her in a negative light in this game?

[thellama73]

Just a thought-- do players conform to their own play style benefit themselves further when they are mafia or just because of predisposition?
Not directed at you in particular Juliet, but also Llama and MP, 3 players who have very unique and recognizable play styles.

Speaking for myself, I think I conform to my own playstyle more when I civilian, whereas when I am bad I am more careful not to come across as suspicious. Having a team that I don't want to let down makes me a more conscientious, and therefore less freewheeling and prone to random antics, sort of player.

[thellama73]

Timmer comes off the Apollo Doctrine list! That leaves:
Mongoose
Lorab
and Hedgebaddie.

And Mongoose has posted in other places.

She will probably get mad at me for saying this, but she told me she is avoiding logging onto the site because she doesn't want to be asked to do Socky Award related business.

[DharmaHelper]

Yeah, you aren't getting my point. I wasn't saying that her behavior in that game in anyway related to her play in this game. My point was that you were mentioning SVS as a baddie from another game in this game and claiming that you weren't comparing the two games. You made a call back to a game where SVS was bad while also mentioning something she said in this game. You don't see how that could possibly paint her in a negative light in this game?

No, I don't. Because the circumstances are different for both games. Let me see if I can explain:

*IF* I had said "SVS did X in this Champions game, and she did X in Misfits when she was bad" Yes, that would be painting her in a negative light.

But, She did X in Misfits and Y in this game. In this game, she is the defender. In Misfits, she was the aggressor. Same play, same cast, different roles. Does that make sense?

This whole thing is irrelevant anyway, as I had/have no intention of pursuing a case based on that. I was just, as I stated, amused by the callback.

[DharmaHelper]

Timmer comes off the Apollo Doctrine list! That leaves:
Mongoose
Lorab
and Hedgebaddie.

And Mongoose has posted in other places.

She will probably get mad at me for saying this, but she told me she is avoiding logging onto the site because she doesn't want to be asked to do Socky Award related business.

Lol.