[WOLF WIN] Apathy Mafia

[Camilla]

Distrustfall
Camilla - I'm not really sure if I buy some of her self defense today. Its true that tutuu and zenon townreading her counts for something but it feels iffy for her to frame it like she would never kill them even though she obviously would. It makes some sense for porscha to be demoralized d1 if her partners are an afk wilgy and afk camilla.

Jack - Same thing as camilla, porscha flopping over belly up makes sense if she had no active teammates to defend her (as prince j was afk). Preflipping wilgy felt weird, and he was much less paranoid of me than usual before the wilgy flip (i know there is an explanation, but still).

Pyxxy - Has self-admittedly coasted a bit. Seemed more interested in shading zenon and tutuu eod1 even when he was counterwagoning a maf. Has not really pushed either flipped wolf or brought any earth shattering thoughts to the thread.

Roxy - hasnt done much other than have good tone. Had a jack/camilla solve yesterday when everyone else caught wilgy.

IRT to the NKA, I don't get how people are certain that the wolves RB'd Scotty.

In this world then this would mean that the actual doctor did not protect the green check, which feels like an extremely throw-y move to do.

[Alison]

I need to travel to another city so ill be gone for a few hours. Will check back in later today.

I ask that jack and camilla refrain from the thing where they quote every post the other person writes and goes "this is outing". Even if you are right it doesnt help me get there on them and becomes tedious after a while. (I am a hypocrite bc i do this too sometimes but im just telling you it wont do anything to help me decide)

[pyxxy]

I wanna do a trustfall and distrustfall

.......don't forget.......yourself.......

Well a trustfall and distrustfall is when you list the strongest reason to townread or scumread someone

And the idea is you get a better sense of the solve by seeing who you had to try the hardest to come up with reasons for

I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you, but I dont think i struggled to come up with reasons to trust anyone

So if i trustfalled myself it would just be because I know my role card lol

.......ah.......sorry..............ty for definition.......

[Camilla]

I need to travel to another city so ill be gone for a few hours. Will check back in later today.

I ask that jack and camilla refrain from the thing where they quote every post the other person writes and goes "this is outing". Even if you are right it doesnt help me get there on them and becomes tedious after a while. (I am a hypocrite bc i do this too sometimes but im just telling you it wont do anything to help me decide)

Sure, so I guess I'll just towncase myself, then.

Like, my SoD2 should basically clear me as it pretty much shows that I have no TMI as I would never think "Tutuu has a wolfmate as her top townread, must be the cop" as wolf.

While I tend to add a lot of micro to my wolfgame such as overplaying frustration that thing I did at the SoD2 isn't something I'd ever think to do as a wolf.

That, and I tend to have a no bussing meta, which I can prove by listing my recent wolfgames, and I wouldn't have shaded Porscha like that or just yolovoted Wilgy were I a wolf, but that's self-meta and yeah.

[pyxxy]

I wanna do a trustfall and distrustfall

.......don't forget.......yourself.......

Well a trustfall and distrustfall is when you list the strongest reason to townread or scumread someone

And the idea is you get a better sense of the solve by seeing who you had to try the hardest to come up with reasons for

I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you, but I dont think i struggled to come up with reasons to trust anyone

So if i trustfalled myself it would just be because I know my role card lol

"I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you"

.......oh..............that's interesting.......

..............question.......for.......the thread..............

.......does.......everyone.......find me.......towncleared.......by both wolves.......wanting me dead?..............

.......like..............I am.......the nk..............10 times out of 10..............tonight?.......

[pyxxy]

I wanna do a trustfall and distrustfall

.......don't forget.......yourself.......

Well a trustfall and distrustfall is when you list the strongest reason to townread or scumread someone

And the idea is you get a better sense of the solve by seeing who you had to try the hardest to come up with reasons for

I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you, but I dont think i struggled to come up with reasons to trust anyone

So if i trustfalled myself it would just be because I know my role card lol

"I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you"

.......oh..............that's interesting.......

..............question.......for.......the thread..............

.......does.......everyone.......find me.......towncleared.......by both wolves.......wanting me dead?..............

.......like..............I am.......the nk..............10 times out of 10..............tonight?.......

.......@Roxy.......is probably..............the one person.......who wouldn't..............but..............we'll see.......lots.......of.......day.......left.......

[Camilla]

I wanna do a trustfall and distrustfall

.......don't forget.......yourself.......

Well a trustfall and distrustfall is when you list the strongest reason to townread or scumread someone

And the idea is you get a better sense of the solve by seeing who you had to try the hardest to come up with reasons for

I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you, but I dont think i struggled to come up with reasons to trust anyone

So if i trustfalled myself it would just be because I know my role card lol

"I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you"

.......oh..............that's interesting.......

..............question.......for.......the thread..............

.......does.......everyone.......find me.......towncleared.......by both wolves.......wanting me dead?..............

.......like..............I am.......the nk..............10 times out of 10..............tonight?.......

If I get elim'd today then the NK will probably be Alison, tbh.

I think Roxy is the doctor and Jack's wincon would basically be getting Roxy to vote you as Alison is TR'ing you, and Alison would be extremely hard to ML.

I don't think Alison would let Jack live if I die today and I don't think if he does CC Roxy that you'd vote Roxy.

I'd frankly just force Jack to claim VT/Doc today so CC'ing here is impossible for him tomorrow.

[pyxxy]

I wanna do a trustfall and distrustfall

.......don't forget.......yourself.......

Well a trustfall and distrustfall is when you list the strongest reason to townread or scumread someone

And the idea is you get a better sense of the solve by seeing who you had to try the hardest to come up with reasons for

I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you, but I dont think i struggled to come up with reasons to trust anyone

So if i trustfalled myself it would just be because I know my role card lol

"I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you"

.......oh..............that's interesting.......

..............question.......for.......the thread..............

.......does.......everyone.......find me.......towncleared.......by both wolves.......wanting me dead?..............

.......like..............I am.......the nk..............10 times out of 10..............tonight?.......

If I get elim'd today then the NK will probably be Alison, tbh.

I think Roxy is the doctor and Jack's wincon would basically be getting Roxy to vote you as Alison is TR'ing you, and Alison would be extremely hard to ML.

I don't think Alison would let Jack live if I die today and I don't think if he does CC Roxy that you'd vote Roxy.

I'd frankly just force Jack to claim VT/Doc today so CC'ing here is impossible for him tomorrow.

.......boooooooo.......

.......you're.......supposed.......to go along.......with it.......

.......I had a whole thing.......where.......I get confirmed.......towncleared.......by everyone.......and then claim doc.......to make scum.......WIFOM it.......

[Camilla]

I wanna do a trustfall and distrustfall

.......don't forget.......yourself.......

Well a trustfall and distrustfall is when you list the strongest reason to townread or scumread someone

And the idea is you get a better sense of the solve by seeing who you had to try the hardest to come up with reasons for

I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you, but I dont think i struggled to come up with reasons to trust anyone

So if i trustfalled myself it would just be because I know my role card lol

"I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you"

.......oh..............that's interesting.......

..............question.......for.......the thread..............

.......does.......everyone.......find me.......towncleared.......by both wolves.......wanting me dead?..............

.......like..............I am.......the nk..............10 times out of 10..............tonight?.......

If I get elim'd today then the NK will probably be Alison, tbh.

I think Roxy is the doctor and Jack's wincon would basically be getting Roxy to vote you as Alison is TR'ing you, and Alison would be extremely hard to ML.

I don't think Alison would let Jack live if I die today and I don't think if he does CC Roxy that you'd vote Roxy.

I'd frankly just force Jack to claim VT/Doc today so CC'ing here is impossible for him tomorrow.

.......boooooooo.......

.......you're.......supposed.......to go along.......with it.......

.......I had a whole thing.......where.......I get confirmed.......towncleared.......by everyone.......and then claim doc.......to make scum.......WIFOM it.......

I mean, I'd just like to force Jack to stick to a claim.

If I die today then Jack can't open up the PoE by CC'ing a doctor.

Whether Roxy/you/Alison is the doc is kind of irrelevant as Roxy can also not be doctor and if she dies and isn't it then lolwolves for trusting the PR read of the person who cop-read Tutuu.

Either way, yeah.

I'm VT and I'd like Jack to claim by the EoD.

[Alison]

I'm not saying a fucking word about who I'm voting or what claim I'm believing at f3 and neither should anyone else. First because I don't know myself and often re-read and reevaluate at f3 and you should too. Second because we shouldnt give wolves any hint about what combo of townies is most likely to make them win.

[Alison]

Does it help us to block wolf jack from ccing doc at f3?

lets say jack goes f3 with vt and doc

doc claims -> jack ccs -> jack vs doc tdome

doc claims -> jack doesnt cc -> jack vs vt tdome

either way jack has to tdome someone so it doesnt help him much?

[Camilla]

I'm not saying a fucking word about who I'm voting or what claim I'm believing at f3 and neither should anyone else. First because I don't know myself and often re-read and reevaluate at f3 and you should too. Second because we shouldnt give wolves any hint about what combo of townies is most likely to make them win.

I'm not planning for a F3 as I either die today or the game just ends.

I've had suspicions on J's slot since D2 as he tends to lose interest in games as a wolf and Jack's extremely TMI-y approach to Wilgy just seals the deal.

If the village makes the wrong choice today then I at least want Jack to stick to a claim for the F3.

I know that I'm sounding like Gavial/Seth but I've been calling for the head of J's slot since d2 and nobody has been listening to me meanwhile he had me as town until his PoE demanded that he broadened it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m VT or doctor.

[Camilla]

Does it help us to block wolf jack from ccing doc at f3?

lets say jack goes f3 with vt and doc

doc claims -> jack ccs -> jack vs doc tdome

doc claims -> jack doesnt cc -> jack vs vt tdome

either way jack has to tdome someone so it doesnt help him much?

Would limit his options.

If say the weakest player in the F3 is the doctor then he'll be able to dome the doctor.

If not then just claim VT.

[Camilla]

I’m VT or doctor.

Sticking to the VT claim?

[Camilla]

Let's be real, if you think I'm a wolf and I go over today then there's no harm in claiming since from a V!You PoV then the game just ends.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Let's be real, if you think I'm a wolf and I go over today then there's no harm in claiming since from a V!You PoV then the game just ends.

Sure but I don’t follow strategic suggestions from players I think are wolves, either.

[Camilla]

Let's be real, if you think I'm a wolf and I go over today then there's no harm in claiming since from a V!You PoV then the game just ends.

Sure but I don’t follow strategic suggestions from players I think are wolves, either.

If I'm a wolf like you say, the game just ends and there's no point in not claiming.

What am I going to do? Have the 4th wolf kill the Doctor?

[Camilla]

@Jackofhearts2005

Sticking to the VT claim?

[pyxxy]

Let's be real, if you think I'm a wolf and I go over today then there's no harm in claiming since from a V!You PoV then the game just ends.

Sure but I don’t follow strategic suggestions from players I think are wolves, either.

If I'm a wolf like you say, the game just ends and there's no point in not claiming.

What am I going to do? Have the 4th wolf kill the Doctor?

.......which is why.......I said.......what I said.......about.......alison.......being doc.......in your true.......worldview.......

.......because.......if you're town..............forcing.......Jack.......to VT claim..............is.......-EV.......and scumsided.......

.......unless.......you.......really think.......doc Jack.......claims here..............ever.......which.......please..............then..............this.......has.......no point.......

..............and.......if doc jack.......ever did.......that too.......would be..............-EV.......for town.......ergo..............conclusion.......est.......

[Camilla]

Does it help us to block wolf jack from ccing doc at f3?

lets say jack goes f3 with vt and doc

doc claims -> jack ccs -> jack vs doc tdome

doc claims -> jack doesnt cc -> jack vs vt tdome

either way jack has to tdome someone so it doesnt help him much?

Would limit his options.

If say the weakest player in the F3 is the doctor then he'll be able to dome the doctor.

If not then just claim VT.

Like say if he claims VT today and kills Roxy thinking that she's the doctor and in the end Pyxxy is the doctor, then he's basically required to dome Alison, and vice versa.

If the village is going to throw today then I at least want to shut Jack down for tomorrow.

[pyxxy]

..............I.......await..............roxy.......ttyl.......

[Camilla]

Let's be real, if you think I'm a wolf and I go over today then there's no harm in claiming since from a V!You PoV then the game just ends.

Sure but I don’t follow strategic suggestions from players I think are wolves, either.

If I'm a wolf like you say, the game just ends and there's no point in not claiming.

What am I going to do? Have the 4th wolf kill the Doctor?

.......which is why.......I said.......what I said.......about.......alison.......being doc.......in your true.......worldview.......

.......because.......if you're town..............forcing.......Jack.......to VT claim..............is.......-EV.......and scumsided.......

.......unless.......you.......really think.......doc Jack.......claims here..............ever.......which.......please..............then..............this.......has.......no point.......

..............and.......if doc jack.......ever did.......that too.......would be..............-EV.......for town.......ergo..............conclusion.......est.......

I'm extremely confident of my wolfread on Jack.

If I die today then at least I want Jack to die tomorrow.

[Camilla]

@pyxxy

Also ftr, I don't get why PR hunting is wolfy.

I do it as both alignments such as here in my Gwen account(https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6824932) where I PR'd hunt to clear the Desperado.

I was a bit more blatant in that game since Detective Popcorn was being pushed while here nobody was pushing Roxy after d2.

[pyxxy]

@pyxxy

Also ftr, I don't get why PR hunting is wolfy.

I do it as both alignments such as here in my Gwen account(https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6824932) where I PR'd hunt to clear the Desperado.

I was a bit more blatant in that game since Detective Popcorn was being pushed while here nobody was pushing Roxy after d2.

.......it's.......the context.......

.......it's just.......clearly.......not pro-town..............to out.......the doc.......in this situation.......

.......to an extent.......it's already..............too late..............if.......we.......have..............another day.......tomorrow.......scum.......has.......a good guess.......tonight.......

..............I engaged.......because.......I wanted to see..............if you.......would falter..............you held.......I respect it.......however.......as I said..............



..............I.......await..............roxy.......

[Camilla]

@pyxxy

Also ftr, I don't get why PR hunting is wolfy.

I do it as both alignments such as here in my Gwen account(https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6824932) where I PR'd hunt to clear the Desperado.

I was a bit more blatant in that game since Detective Popcorn was being pushed while here nobody was pushing Roxy after d2.

.......it's.......the context.......

.......it's just.......clearly.......not pro-town..............to out.......the doc.......in this situation.......

.......to an extent.......it's already..............too late..............if.......we.......have..............another day.......tomorrow.......scum.......has.......a good guess.......tonight.......

..............I engaged.......because.......I wanted to see..............if you.......would falter..............you held.......I respect it.......however.......as I said..............



..............I.......await..............roxy.......

Yh, that was my bad in my part but I don't think it's 100% outing as Roxy can just lie or let it ambiguous for today and my PR read isn't guaranteed to be correct.

I'm just certain that Jack if the last wolf and I don't want him to be able smooth-talk his way into endgaming.

[Alison]

Thread died huh?

Where is roxy?

[Camilla]

Thread died huh?

Where is roxy?

[Roxy]

It's my granddaughter day but we must sort Alison/Camilla.

Yep I posted all about Camilla last day and to day I'll be reading Alison.

Both firmly in the poe.

Alison is a bus driver - self admitted. Wishy washy reads that contradict often.
Camilla is event I posted yesterday.

After I have time a properly read Alison

I'll be back

@pyxxy @Jackofhearts2005 will you also really dive into Alison?

@cami

[Roxy]

Thread died huh?

Where is roxy?

Why are you looking for me?

It's not like you give a care about my reads. You say I'm all over the place, remember?

[Roxy]

..............I.......await..............roxy.......ttyl.......

Why?

[Camilla]

It's my granddaughter day but we must sort Alison/Camilla.

Yep I posted all about Camilla last day and to day I'll be reading Alison.

Both firmly in the poe.

Alison is a bus driver - self admitted. Wishy washy reads that contradict often.
Camilla is event I posted yesterday.

After I have time a properly read Alison

I'll be back

@pyxxy @Jackofhearts2005 will you also really dive into Alison?

@cami

Alison never flips wolf here.

If she were then D4 she would just let me/Jack/Pyxxy tunnel each other rather than bus Wilgy.

She's not the kind of player to make such a throw.

Especially as she was the main pusher behind the D1 wolf lynch while both PRs were not outed.

[Roxy]

@Camilla this does not mean you are clear bc I'm looking at Alison.

[Camilla]

@Camilla this does not mean you are clear bc I'm looking at Alison.

So you're going to ML me today then ML Alison.

Good to know.

[Roxy]

It's my granddaughter day but we must sort Alison/Camilla.

Yep I posted all about Camilla last day and to day I'll be reading Alison.

Both firmly in the poe.

Alison is a bus driver - self admitted. Wishy washy reads that contradict often.
Camilla is event I posted yesterday.

After I have time a properly read Alison

I'll be back

@pyxxy @Jackofhearts2005 will you also really dive into Alison?

@cami

Alison never flips wolf here.

If she were then D4 she would just let me/Jack/Pyxxy tunnel each other rather than bus Wilgy.

She's not the kind of player to make such a throw.

Especially as she was the main pusher behind the D1 wolf lynch while both PRs were not outed.

Ok in your opinion. I've seen it all playing for over 15 years. So yes I've seen mafia do weirder shit than this.

I'm going to play my way.

Unless you just want me to vote you now without making sure I'm right.

[Camilla]

@pyxxy

Just swap your vote to Jack.

If I die today then it's GG.

Even if I were a wolf then I'd just die tomorrow while Jack has a realistic chance of endgaming.

[Camilla]

It's my granddaughter day but we must sort Alison/Camilla.

Yep I posted all about Camilla last day and to day I'll be reading Alison.

Both firmly in the poe.

Alison is a bus driver - self admitted. Wishy washy reads that contradict often.
Camilla is event I posted yesterday.

After I have time a properly read Alison

I'll be back

@pyxxy @Jackofhearts2005 will you also really dive into Alison?

@cami

Alison never flips wolf here.

If she were then D4 she would just let me/Jack/Pyxxy tunnel each other rather than bus Wilgy.

She's not the kind of player to make such a throw.

Especially as she was the main pusher behind the D1 wolf lynch while both PRs were not outed.

Ok in your opinion. I've seen it all playing for over 15 years. So yes I've seen mafia do weirder shit than this.

I'm going to play my way.

Unless you just want me to vote you now without making sure I'm right.

Do I look like I care about your vote?

I have zero faith that you'd ever vote correctly here so I'm treating you as the fourth member of the wolfteam.

The town's wincon effectively boils down to killing Jack today so it's up to Pyxxy to vote correctly.

[Roxy]

Ok then fuck it.
The game doesn't need me I'll stop here and do nothing since it doesn't matter.

[Camilla]

Ok then fuck it.
The game doesn't need me I'll stop here and do nothing since it doesn't matter.

Sorry, but I haven't slept in hours so I'm in a fairly foul mood.

[pyxxy]

..............I.......await..............roxy.......ttyl.......

Why?

.......I.......care.......about.......what.......you.......think.......

[Jackofhearts2005]

It's my granddaughter day but we must sort Alison/Camilla.

Yep I posted all about Camilla last day and to day I'll be reading Alison.

Both firmly in the poe.

Alison is a bus driver - self admitted. Wishy washy reads that contradict often.
Camilla is event I posted yesterday.

After I have time a properly read Alison

I'll be back

@pyxxy @Jackofhearts2005 will you also really dive into Alison?

@cami

Gonna. Meant to and honestly, I'm getting a bit antsy about Camilla.

Idk if wolf Camilla does anything different. Gets strongarmed into voting Wilgy. Fails to open the POE. Gets strongly suspected by a few townies and at least in the POE of all others. Maybe "push a worldview where Jack is the last wolf and I don't care about getting yeeted and then figure out who to misyeet tomorrow" is the best strategy for w!Camilla. Sometimes wolves are in a box and have to push for the best they have that won't get them turboed and being in that situation doesn't make them town.

But still. Camilla doesn't have a clear path towards a wolf win that she's pursuing here. And a town Camilla flip today would be all sorts of bad for the town. I don't have a better idea. I basically have Alison, Pyxxy and Roxy all cleared and I've been on record of being so sure of my solve that I'd be okay going first. If Camilla flips town, we lose. I still think it's just her but gah, I have to consider the possibility it's not or I'm not playing to my wincon. And as much as Alison has felt townie and as much as I think pushing Wilgy yesterday isn't what wolf Alison does yesterday, it's still the one angle I haven't given a fair look towards.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Because I honestly kinda expect foul mood wolf Camilla to just give up, here. Like, you've got only a slim chance of getting me yeeted and if you do that, you have an even slimmer chance of getting another misyeet. Maybe yeet Jack, shoot Pxxy and hope that Alison and Roxy eat each other. But those chances are really really really slim and you're not having fun. I'd just forfeit from that pov.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't know Cam well enough to say if that's valid or not.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think Porscha is out of her wolf range + she's playing completely different from the one time I saw her wolf

The lead up to this post is shade on a bunch of different townies that (as of this post) doesn't really go anywhere. This declaration is also kinda out of nowhere.

Not the best start tbh.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Alison fence sitting on Camilla and me today and treating us as almost offensively equally likely to be wolves is also what I'd expect Alison to be doing atm. LIke she doesn't particularly appear to be trying to solve the Jack/Camilla dome. She tells us to stop fighting, then when we do, she doesn't do anything and eventually is just like "thread died where is Roxy."

Again, not a smoking gun but it's concerning.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Especially 40 min from EOD

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think Porscha is out of her wolf range + she's playing completely different from the one time I saw her wolf

could you please do me a favor alison-sama and skim thru her iso here search.php?keywords=&t=2508&author=Pors ... sf=msgonly

she was wolf and she snowed everyone including mac

in cartomancy she was a wolf, in post game it was said that she broke out of her wolf range

this game i linked again she was supposedly out of wolf range and she broke out of it, as said post game

porscha is a really good wolf!

I'll read this after breakfast. Mac has told me that Porscha has a very strong volume tell which he used to read her correctly in a few games and iirc she lowposted in Carto so I don't think she broke that tell at least. It's what I meant by that remark about her wolf range.

My first remark after looking at Porscha's iso was "Holy shit that's a lot of posts for a D1 yeet Porscha."

The idea that a teammate told her that she's got a volume tell and then pushed her to post a lot so that they could townread her is not too hard to imagine and Alison could easily be that teammate.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I really fucking hate this. I should have done this so much earlier.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I have not reviewed the linked game in detail but if it is true that Porscha is no longer volume polarized then it she is actually kind of scummy... the noise to signal ratio is really bad

Here's Alison's turn on Porscha. She votes shortly after. Need context. Miss MU vote tally functions.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think Porscha is out of her wolf range + she's playing completely different from the one time I saw her wolf

could you please do me a favor alison-sama and skim thru her iso here search.php?keywords=&t=2508&author=Pors ... sf=msgonly

she was wolf and she snowed everyone including mac

in cartomancy she was a wolf, in post game it was said that she broke out of her wolf range

this game i linked again she was supposedly out of wolf range and she broke out of it, as said post game

porscha is a really good wolf!

I'll read this after breakfast. Mac has told me that Porscha has a very strong volume tell which he used to read her correctly in a few games and iirc she lowposted in Carto so I don't think she broke that tell at least. It's what I meant by that remark about her wolf range.

ooooh i see nod nod

here are the post counts from this linked game



relatively high post count! mac said that he was playing with her at 3 games at the same time. she slanked in 1, and hyperposted in the other two. in the one she slanked she was town, in one of the hyperposted she was town, in the other - this one - wolf!

Comes right after being told Porscha doesn't actually have a volume tell. Alison votes soon after, looks to be the 2nd vote but could be the third.