The Syndicate 2014 Game of Champions [ENDGAME]

[Snow Dog]

Seems it's between MP and Dom. Voted MP. I feel a little better about him than Dom. I might be biased because of PA.

[S~V~S]

linki: I've played a few games with MP lately where he was all over someone who allegedly slipped, and wouldn't hear anything else. Once he decided it was a slip, he was on a crusade. Maybe it's different this time because he read it after it was analysed and not "live", I don't know.

"Lately" agreed, he has been more about passion. Perhaps the enforced down time due to the posting restrictions, and the "read only" mode from moving slowed him down a bit. But while I certainly could be wrong, this really looks like the civ MP of old. Perhaps the memory of *that guy* is why I tend to suspect MP more often than not these days; he seems hastier in general than I recall.

Not sure about other people, but that is why i trust MP as much as I trust anyone in this game. Perhaps i should say that I distrust him less than the rest of the lot of you

[S~V~S]

Snowy, LC has the same # of votes as Dom. Why not include him in your contenders?

[Snow Dog]

Snowy, LC has the same # of votes as Dom. Why not include him in your contenders?

I didn't even notice that. Let me think if I'll change

[Snow Dog]

Keeping my vote on MP. Although i have no feeling one way or another about LC yet.

[zeek]

Looks like the wand is MP's. I have no reason to suspect him, just wary over what I perceive to be a behaviour change but then S~V~S says its a return to past behaviour, so... dunno.

Hope this isn't a bad move.

[bea]

I mean I don't think there is a staunch trust in Dom Seemingly in MP, but not Dom.

Do you think the trust in MP is unwarnted and why?

Fwiw -I'd personally rather see people vote who they trust even if they aren't going to win vs voting between vote getters so their vote "maters" It's one of the reasons I respect eloh's vote so much tbh.

Who do you think you could trust right now?

I lean toward eloh - svs and th.

so much linkie - the reason I'm more inclined to trust mp vs dom is honestly hosting them during who. MP heard lots of my yelling at him due to his role about letting the thread take care of itself. I think maybe that lesson wasn't lost and might be affecting his playstyle. Or he knows I think that and is baddie mcbadderson and doing it to lull me into a sense of false security.

but that's not to say that I don't trust dom. Dom is very much a what you see is what you get player. It is what makes him so good. He learned at the knees of some of the true masters of the game. He played a flawless baddie game and we have a natural distrust of each other. That does not change the fact that he is one of the most dillagent and amazing people I know in a civ role. He's that guy you want to be civ because when he's bad - he's sooo good at being civ.


and more linki - what do you think of LC SVS?

I know he's right up there with dom too - but I'd like your opnion. We've both seen the not good LC.

linkie - amillion is it decided because of votes? because my hurry up and vote alarm hasn't sounded yet..

[Long Con]

It's actually between MP and MP.

[zeek]

Night is ending in ten mins isn't it? Alarm isn't far away.

I don't have much trust in anyone at the moment. LC, Dom and S~V~S are probably the three I trust the most right now.

I just don't see what it is MP has done to qualify for such trust. He's easy to trust, I get that, but that'sexactly why I'm wary of him.

[bea]

It's actually between MP and MP.

Yea....if I'd been allowed to post I could have checked and saw it.

lol.

that said - I don't trust or not trust MP. I hope he's civ and I hope he uses the gift as wisely as he can.

I'm voting for the person I most trust this game.

And I most trust Eloh.

[Long Con]

My phone didn't linkitis me before that last post, it's not so relevant at this point.

[FZ.]

Since MP is the winner anyway, I'm going to give my vote to a person I suspect less. That would be....Bea. She's asking questions that seem very perceptive in my eyes, and I like the way she's acting. Let's hope I'm not wrong

linki. Maybe you should vote yourself and some people will move their vote. Not that I know of any reason not to vote MP, but the last thing zeek mentioned made me a bit worried

[bea]

lol - JUST as I was placing my vote - the bells started ringing - and BDH was all "time to get up - or dough is proofed - or something" and I was all "time to vote!"

[bea]

belated linki - thanks for the vote FZ - it means the world to me. I think I'm seeing civ FZ here too. So ya know... :cheers:

[Long Con]

lol - JUST as I was placing my vote - the bells started ringing - and BDH was all "time to get up - or dough is proofed - or something" and I was all "time to vote!"

Who's BDH?

[Snow Dog]

Since MP is the winner anyway, I'm going to give my vote to a person I suspect less. That would be....Bea. She's asking questions that seem very perceptive in my eyes, and I like the way she's acting. Let's hope I'm not wrong

linki. Maybe you should vote yourself and some people will move their vote. Not that I know of any reason not to vote MP, but the last thing zeek mentioned made me a bit worried

I'd vote SVS

[Snow Dog]

Sorry I meant bea.

[S~V~S]

Bea, I am always wary of LC. LC taught me alot about being a baddie. My first reaction when I read the big post he made about not killing me the other day was, "Awww how sweet". My second reactions was, "Oh shit, I am dead, LC is gonna kill me". But that was just for a second.I pay a lot of attention to LCs tone, and I have not seen anything that worries me. At this stage I don't fully trust anyone, but when I man=de my wand vote, I waffled a bit between LC & MP. I waited to answer this until night was "over" ha ha. Why give anyone ideas?

Although personal reads etc. will have less & less bearing as we go along due to Tyler.

[Snow Dog]

I just did.

[bea]

lol - JUST as I was placing my vote - the bells started ringing - and BDH was all "time to get up - or dough is proofed - or something" and I was all "time to vote!"

Who's BDH?

BDH = Big Damn Hero as he's known to some on this site. Known to IRC and lots of HV and LP as Diggz aka DIggler aka my hubby.

[Long Con]

Ah, good ol' diggz! Excellent!

And S~V~S, I chuckled that you had a moment of LC fear.

[Long Con]

Although personal reads etc. will have less & less bearing as we go along due to Tyler.

I don't think so, Tyler doesn't recruit in a game-altering kind of way.

[bea]

Bea, I am always wary of LC. LC taught me alot about being a baddie. My first reaction when I read the big post he made about not killing me the other day was, "Awww how sweet". My second reactions was, "Oh shit, I am dead, LC is gonna kill me". But that was just for a second.I pay a lot of attention to LCs tone, and I have not seen anything that worries me. At this stage I don't fully trust anyone, but when I man=de my wand vote, I waffled a bit between LC & MP. I waited to answer this until night was "over" ha ha. Why give anyone ideas?

Although personal reads etc. will have less & less bearing as we go along due to Tyler.

fair points all around svs. I am unsure of how tyler will play out this game. But saddened that the only thing I can bring to the table (ie --personal reads and gut feels) become less relevet the longer I live.

linki- LC don't think she's the only one that fears LC - I've learned long and hard the rough way about trusting you. you may have caught the rest of my baddie team in Python for kissing up to you -but I never did. diggz says hi too.

more linki - LC - are we sure of that? I would have to read the rolls *yet again* but i know he's an indy and those win conditions are not so well defined...

[nijuukyugou]

linki - blooper! hi! How's it? What do you think about everyone else? Who are you trusting most obviously besides MP since you just voted him? - Who are you trusting least? Why? What do you think about what's been going on? Cuz things are going on now...

1) It is wonderful! I am making pot roast and the apartment smells fantastic

2) This is always a difficult question, as I am always inclined to assume everyone's a liar. Pings from LC (for reasons previously stated), Eloh (for the weird zeek vote), and I bet there's a baddie or two in the two highest contender votes from yesterday. Yes, I know that's a broad category and terrible answer (seeing as MP, who I voted to receive the wand, is in that broad category), but at least it'll get me really looking back and being more specific. Hopefully. There are still some that haven't checked in yet, and lots more not talking much (I'm one to talk), and several missing votes, so it's hard to trust anyone without behavior to go on. This means there are lots of people who have not pinged me, but that's mostly because I haven't seen them do much of anything. Let me know if you need more specifics (but this is turning into a novel - sorry guys )

3) I think what went down in the last lynch was strange but perhaps not so unexpected given the people up on the block. Poor llama gets voted so much for "weird" behavior, and I don't even think he was being that weird. Made made (hehe) a claim about a vote forcing, llama called him out on it, people called out llama for calling him out. There were others that called BS on Made, but none seemed to garner as much attention as llama. Could it have been a save? Possibly. I'm still inclined towards thinking that there really wouldn't be much purpose behind Made's making a false claim would serve him if he were bad. Not unheard of, but also not likely in my opinion. Seemed like regardless, easy way for mafia to put up two bold players on the chopping block and chalk it up to weird behavior in either case, assuming that Made were Civ. (Does that make sense?)

Linki - LOL not alone with being wary of LC. Not since Monty Python

[bea]

Sorry I meant bea.

awe - thanks snowy. I think That ment you voted me right? IDK - and now there's other stuffs....

at some point, maybe I'm done mafiaing and I can hook up my phone and maybe get fan fest picts up and then you can see the glory that is me and bdh getting our pict with colin baker and paul mcgann!!!!

[Dom]

Dom dom!
a) re: FZ - she's reading fairly genuine to me thus far. She messed up pretty big re: roxy and I in the last ksite game I played, but she's that kind of player. She goes with what she sees. Passionatly. And the ksite style is different from here. Those of us that have played in both worlds, I do truely believe it affects the way we play on the "not home" sites. (except for maybe rox and splintsy - they are weird anomolies) Correct me if you think I'm wrong FZ.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. This is twice that FZ has used two different sets of logic in similar situations without real reason, one time she found me suspicious for it. Do you see what I found concerning there?
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here-- ignore FZ?

b) re MP: *tee-hee* - BUT - he raises a fair point. You were BAD BAD BAD in Who and you played a perfect game as a baddie that due to circumstances beyond your control, by process of elimination, you were found out. I'm as weary of early trust toward you as I am early trust toward MP tbh. MP feels more open minded than he usually does regardless of alignment during this game. It makes me *want* to trust him. Maybe he learned a thing or two. But it doesn't mean I do quite yet - I don't quite trust you yet either. Would you expect it any other way with us?

I am slightly annoyed that MP called ME out in particular when others had received comparable votes-- and wowee! look who just HAPPENED to received SO many votes thereafter!
I have no reason to trust MP. His suspicions have been wrong and I haven't seen anything I'd call the hallmark of civvie MP yet. Do I think he's bad? Not really. Do I trust him? No.
But he only calls me out when LC has comparable votes? That makes me think-- why does he not want ME to get the wand.

c) re: elo - I think her vote for me was made from the best possible place. I have no reason to distrust her. I don't think she was doing it because she didn't want to be held accountable. I think she voted for the person she most trusted.

What do you think of her vote for Zeek?

d) re: your votes. In the first champions game, there was a similar scenario about this time in the game. It was a shield though (I don't remember what it did, but I do remember that who held it came into play later in the game.) I was voted in that game to recieve it first. Outside of BDH/Diggz - the other votes I recieved kinda sketched me out. This early in the game, does it worry you that people are putting that much trust in you? Do you get paranoid that there are baddies kissing up there? Because when I was in that spot. I did. Like lots.

I actually addressed this earlier, with MP. He seemed MUCH less worried about me getting the wand then. I don't particularly care if I get it, but I think MP might have manipulated you all into giving it to him. He is, far and away, the winner here. No one seems to question the trust of MP, but MP certainly started the talk about why are people trusting me. I'm going to be honest, the way MP played this has given me the idea that he might be trying to get me lynched here.

MP used to be the king of analysis & appraisal. I think he had more time back in the day. He jumps to conclusions more than he used to, bad or good, such as suspecting people due to slips. Like I do always, lol. That big post felt like old MP to me. Analytical and thought out (even though it was not correct re Llama). But the jumping on baddie slips etc. is not the style I always associated with MP, although admittedly it IS the style he has been playing in more recently, true. We all evolve.

Linki, yeah, I am not sure what anyone means by "staunch trust of Dom". I tend to have a total blind spot re Dom, and he is still up in the air for me.

TBH, I'd like to keep it that way (in general, not just you). Keeps me safe, regardless of who I am.
I agree with your analysis of MP-- but I haven't seen that as much as you. I agree he used to be much more analytical and appraisal-based. I haven't quite seen it. Doesn't mean I won't.

As I was reading, it seemed that those who voted for Dom expressed a confidence that I hadn't seen in the game until this poll came along. I believe others expressed this curiosity, as well. Perhaps I am overthinking/overreading? (Is that a word? It is now)

Linki @ Bea - Give me a bit to answer your questions - I am smelly from running and need a shower (not ignoring you )

Where have people justified their trust of MP? LC?
Why are people ONLY questioning the trust (that 3 people have) in me, and not in LC or the apparently the trust 9 people have in MP?

Bea, I am always wary of LC. LC taught me alot about being a baddie. My first reaction when I read the big post he made about not killing me the other day was, "Awww how sweet". My second reactions was, "Oh shit, I am dead, LC is gonna kill me". But that was just for a second.I pay a lot of attention to LCs tone, and I have not seen anything that worries me. At this stage I don't fully trust anyone, but when I man=de my wand vote, I waffled a bit between LC & MP. I waited to answer this until night was "over" ha ha. Why give anyone ideas?

Although personal reads etc. will have less & less bearing as we go along due to Tyler.

Do you remember what LC was in Dexter Mafia?
You reminded me of something here.

[Russtifinko]

My vote doesn't matter, but I didn't want to miss, and MP deserves a wand.

[bea]

linki - blooper! hi! How's it? What do you think about everyone else? Who are you trusting most obviously besides MP since you just voted him? - Who are you trusting least? Why? What do you think about what's been going on? Cuz things are going on now...

1) It is wonderful! I am making pot roast and the apartment smells fantastic

2) This is always a difficult question, as I am always inclined to assume everyone's a liar. Pings from LC (for reasons previously stated), Eloh (for the weird zeek vote), and I bet there's a baddie or two in the two highest contender votes from yesterday. Yes, I know that's a broad category and terrible answer (seeing as MP, who I voted to receive the wand, is in that broad category), but at least it'll get me really looking back and being more specific. Hopefully. There are still some that haven't checked in yet, and lots more not talking much (I'm one to talk), and several missing votes, so it's hard to trust anyone without behavior to go on. This means there are lots of people who have not pinged me, but that's mostly because I haven't seen them do much of anything. Let me know if you need more specifics (but this is turning into a novel - sorry guys )

3) I think what went down in the last lynch was strange but perhaps not so unexpected given the people up on the block. Poor llama gets voted so much for "weird" behavior, and I don't even think he was being that weird. Made made (hehe) a claim about a vote forcing, llama called him out on it, people called out llama for calling him out. There were others that called BS on Made, but none seemed to garner as much attention as llama. Could it have been a save? Possibly. I'm still inclined towards thinking that there really wouldn't be much purpose behind Made's making a false claim would serve him if he were bad. Not unheard of, but also not likely in my opinion. Seemed like regardless, easy way for mafia to put up two bold players on the chopping block and chalk it up to weird behavior in either case, assuming that Made were Civ. (Does that make sense?)

Linki - LOL not alone with being wary of LC. Not since Monty Python

1) awesome! we're several hours away from corned beef and cabbage but the house is starting to stink up good so I feel ya girl!

2) I know - it's a tough question and a question that no one really *wants* to answer at this point in the game for civ and baddie reasons. I think your worry about eloh is misplaced. As for the rest of it, I can see your concerns. I have similar ones. Mostly - I want to keep the communication lines open with you. I feel like in in other games we've played - you get suspect because of your posting. Warneted or not - and most times not warented.

3) that makes total sense and much like how I read it. So - given all this - can we figure out who was pushing it one way or the other? or is that lost as there were two potential civs on the chopping block so two baddie teams had an easy out vote regardless of where they voted?

[juliets]

bea, I went back and re-read the role description for Tyler and Tylers recruits don't change roles or alignments so it's not like the recruits we are used to from other games. Tyler wins by having more recruits than non-recruits in the game. From reading the description it doesn't look like being a recruit has any bearing on the recruit.

[Long Con]

Do you remember what LC was in Dexter Mafia?
You reminded me of something here.

I was Ellen Wolf... I forget the details, but I did win. I think there was some secret alliance or something happening. What were you reminded of?

[Dom]

Do you remember what LC was in Dexter Mafia?
You reminded me of something here.

I was Ellen Wolf... I forget the details, but I did win. I think there was some secret alliance or something happening. What were you reminded of?

Wasn't that the indy turned kind of civvie because the host pretty much cheated role?

You complimented my game HEAVILY in that game, I am pretty sure, in a ploy to get me to trust you. When SVS said that, I was reminded of what Blost (my civ BTSC partner) said to me when it happened. . . something to the effect of, "LC is saying that because you are good, but wants you to be flattered into trusting him, do not fall for it."

[Tangrowth]

Hey there! So it seems I did make it back before the deadline.

I have many posts to reply to... so, just a warning. This likely won't be a short post.

rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

Wait, what? You're lying.

I also sent Epi the question and recieved an answer, and based on that answer can determine Made is a liar. I know there is an argument that says even if he lied about that he may not be bad but I just don't see it that way. Why would a civ lie about that? To get a response? What kind of response? And remember how he said he had some kind of plan if Epi screwed him (not his words but I'm pretty sure I'm paraphrasing)? I thought that was pingy when he said it. So now lets see if he comes up with a reason Epi would not tell us the truth. So, I'm going to go ahead and vote for Made and then if he comes on and defends it to the point I believe him, or something even more concrete comes out about someone else I will change my vote.

Speaking of votes, several people have named DF as someone who could be bad. I read everything he's posted which isn't much and nothing jumped out at me. What is the crux of the argument DF is a baddie? I tried to search to see exactly what people have said about him but you can't search two letters. I also tried to search 'llama' to try and understand a little more about the case against him but it said llama was a word that was too common. Ha! Common?? But anyway, whats up with the DF suspicion?

linky i see made replied so I will read his response before I vote and if there is anything that makes me back down I just won't vote

This was your LAST post before your "Rip llama" post.

I became convinced Made was not lying by things that were said after my post including Mades defenses and TH's defending. Note in my post I said if I read Mades post and it made me pause I would not vote for him. I could not post a vote post because Dom had not posted. Also, if I remember correctly llama's post about Mongoose was also after my post (his second post about Mongoose). This is not lying this is changing one's mind. And I am not afraid of being closely looked at because I am civ, not bad or indy. Maybe Boe would like to check my statement.

Juliets, thanks for clarifying. I realize now I should have used different language -- "I THINK you're lying" v. "You're lying". Because what I've learned from Cars and other games is that I really just don't know whether you're lying, despite if I really feel like you are.

I understand your reasoning now, but I just wonder why you weren't more transparent with that when you were able to post after the contest was over.

It's odd because you felt strongly about Made lying, but you then voted Llama, so it stuck out to me.

How do you feel about Made now?

I hate this. I don't like it one bit.

We don't know Made's alignment.

Clearly not everyone in that list of Llama voters is bad. So why punish every single one by not giving any of them your vote? This same question goes to others who have said the same sentiment. It's a BS way to blame someone else and seem like you're being civvie minded.

This pushes DH way up my list to be honest.

Of course not everyone on that list is a baddie. But, statistically, it is more likely that there is a baddie or more than one baddie within that set of voters, if (like myself) you think Made is bad and there was a save attempt...made....to protect him.

Even if I don't suspect every single one of those voters, I don't want to walk into a minefield and risk accidentally giving my vote (and potentially giving the wand) to a baddie.

Fair enough. We will just have to agree to disagree, since I don't feel about Made as you do. However, I do entertain that he is bad. My problem with Made being baddie is that he's essentially committed suicide and brought all kinds of attention to himself for seemingly no benefit whatsoever. What benefit would he have in being a baddie and lying about what he is saying?

Llama was a civ and Made's alignment is unknown. I am far more comfortable voting for somebody who voted for Made purely because we know for certain they weren't trying to save a teammate.

MP, you said earlier you don't trust me. Who do you trust?

Civilians vote civilians all the time.

What about the MM v. DH vote? We know MM was civilian. DH's alignment is unknown. Why aren't you factoring that into your analysis at all?

I don't trust anyone, frankly. I do, however, at the moment feel most relatively OK about Turnip Head, reywaS, and S~V~S.

I'm actually surprised people haven't given SVS the wand. Out of everyone, she seems to be the safest civvie bet.

Interesting that you say this, since catching up I am getting relatively good feelings from S~V~S as well. Not that I hadn't before this, but... I am always wary about trusting S~V~S right off the bat due to my inability to read her in the past.

Whom do you feel is most worthy of looking at re: baddieness, besides Made?

Sorry, llama Not going to say RIP because I hate when people wrongfully lynch me and then just go on like it's nothing, because it annoys the hell out of me (and yeah, I know, it's just a game). I apologize. I shouldn't have voted for you when I wasn't feeling that sure, but I didn't like the votes on Made.
To be honest, I think that if like I believe Made is a civ, then there's more chance to find baddies on his list of voters because it was easier to excuse a vote for him. I get why no one wants to give the wand to those on llama's lynch, but we all make mistakes.

I want to give the wand to TH, but I'm hesitant. I felt his actions were genuine last day, but who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about this a little more

What do you think of me? I have two votes already. TH does not. TH also is one of those votes.

Not sure yet. It's a possibility. The post below the one I quoted where you go after Juliets like that reminds me of how you went after me in that game (where I was a civ, but you truly believed it), so you seem more civvie like.

Can I ask a general question? Out of all the players here, who would you all say is the best at sniffing out baddies?

I was curious since you and I seem to always have strong opinions of each other. It's interesting because I'm not sure what I think of you yet either. You do seem a bit less intense this game thus far, but then again, I could say the same about myself.

The best at sniffing out baddies? Hmmmm. Depends. But I would say LC, timmer, Turnip Head, reywaS, and Russtifinko have some good instincts when they are civilian. There are others too, but those were the top 5 that came to my mind.

DH what evidence is there that says Made was being saved? I thought the case against him had very little merit tbh it is the reason why my vote did not go to Made.

So what actual evidence is there that you see that leads you to your definite conclusion?

The closeness of the llama/Made vote totals
The subtle support Made received several times
The case against llama being (in my view) a touch trumped up

What about the lynch on D1 that involved you, MM, and Boomslang? Why did you not receive any votes yesterday? You and MM tied. Why are you not bad and Made is?

Can we all just acknowledge how much emphasis Epi puts on game balance? Good, now lets think about how Boddy hasn't blackmailed Made, because Made could not tell us if that had happened... cool, now lets think about an unknown blackmailer whose blackmailing can be revealed. Seem fair? Seem balanced? Not in my opinion.

This reminds me of the argument that we used to our advantage in DW about how my role (The Doctor) could never be recruited.

The truth is we don't know what could possibly go on this game, especially since it's a Champions game.

Nonetheless, I understand you raise a good counterpoint.

How do you feel about the possibilities regarding Made that I brought up previously?
1) Made info dumped and got in trouble with Epig, but this hasn't been confirmed due to host interference.
2) Made is cursed. Of course, he would have to argue he wasn't cursed.
3) Made is a civilian, lying, because he's pulling a gambit. Even though almost no player would do this, I could see Made doing it.

Of course, I realize 4) is that Made is a baddie and lying, and I do wonder if this is the case, but I don't understand why everyone is so convinced it is true. What benefit does Made have in this scenario? He brought so much attention unnecessarily to himself. The only reason I would think he would do this is if he is on a baddie team with someone who was really hot and wanted to take attention away from them -- someone such as Boomslang or DH.

rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

We know Llama is civ, why aren't there baddies on his list of voters?

I'm not advocating for a witch hunt of Llama voters, but I am using the same logic to reach that conclusion-- one that FZ opposes, apparently. I find that odd, Juliets.

I'm just curious about why Mongoose picked me, but it's a very minor ping.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I am interested to hear that as well, since I'm pretty sure she never mentioned you or zeek before that post.

Personally, if I was to vote anyone other than myself for this poll... at the moment I'm leaning Turnip Head. I know he can be an incredibly brilliant baddie, but I have received nothing but good vibes from him so far this game. Despite that, I am not too sure how I feel about a lot of players, so this will force me to consider other options as well.

MP, what do you make of Llama being a civvie?
I think Made might be a baddie, especially since Llama ended up being civvie. I suspect Boom more, but man, it makes it harder for me to give Made the BOTD.

What do I make of it? It was a possibility I considered. I thought he was bad. I'm disappointed he wasn't. I don't know what else there is to make of it. Made could still easily be a civilian. He could also be bad.

I don't understand how Made's alignment had anything to do with Llama's. Other than a possible "save attempt", which we have no reason to believe happened here more than any other possible lynch with two main participants -- who is to say they aren't BOTH civilian and baddies bandwagoned onto both of them?

Can you explain that?

Can I explain what?
I think it's possible that Made was saved. Possible, yes. I wanted to know what you think of that possibility.
You obviously think very lowly of it. If you already don't trust Made, can you see how this might look? I don't see why you're being so aggressive here.

DH, juliets, and DFaraday need to be very closely examined, IMO.

I also do not like the fact that Dom has three votes. Why are people trusting him?

. . . oh?
Ok?
Are you the trust police?

I entertain that Made could have been saved. I also entertain that DH could have been saved on D1. Or that Boomslang was. Why do people feel so strongly that Made was over either of those two?

I don't feel I'm being unnecessarily aggressive. But I suppose that's my go-to mafia behavior, as you are well aware.

Where did I say I was the trust police? I'm allowed to voice my opinion. You are high on my possible suspects list. I was merely asking why people trust you because I have seen no reason to do so whatsoever.

I think FZ makes very good points. I didn't vote Made simply because I don't see the logic of his actions if he was bad. Plus he seems to be a player that people are always suspicious of. Having said that I don't know who to vote the wand to.

Exactly why I think this makes more sense if Made is bad. He's used to getting suspected and going out early. I think he's just rolled the dice and tried something different.

I just think most people are giving him way too much benefit of the doubt.

What happens if we lynch him and he flips civilian? How would this affect how you view other players?

I think FZ makes very good points. I didn't vote Made simply because I don't see the logic of his actions if he was bad. Plus he seems to be a player that people are always suspicious of. Having said that I don't know who to vote the wand to.

Exactly why I think this makes more sense if Made is bad. He's used to getting suspected and going out early. I think he's just rolled the dice and tried something different.

I just think most people are giving him way too much benefit of the doubt.

The thing that bothers me the most is the part where Made asked Epig if he can share it and he said yes. The default here is no. Made knows this too. Just by telling us this, it automatically makes people suspicious of him. If I'm were a baddie, this is something I just wouldn't do. Again, only reason to do so is to gain something that is not at face value. Gaining credibility as a civ is just not worth it, and the fact he got so many votes is a proof of it.

linki: Agree with it all

Thank you. I agree with this viewpoint. I don't understand the benefit.

However, FZ., what do you feel about the only scenario I can fathom: to draw attention away from a baddie teammate who was getting heat? How do you feel about DH?

also - alex - do you find it sketchy that so many people are putting their trust in you?

I'm not sure if I feel it is sketchy. I am definitely surprised; I did not expect it at all. I don't necessarily understand the benefit of baddies voting for me unless they're trying to gain cred or something, but even then, there are multiple baddie teams. However, I do wonder if some of the votes are trying to avoid serious questioning, such as Boomslang, Russtifinko, etc. They don't really explain why I deserve their votes. So that does raise my eyebrow.

But I am pleased, since I promise I will put it to good use if I do win.

Before leaving the thread earlier, I thought that Daisy's vouch for me would be the main reason that others would even follow suit, but oddly no one has mentioned that. She has a track record of bringing me down as a baddie in every game in recent memory that we've played together. I think the only game I've really tricked her in since the conception of this site was MOTU, but that's partially because I helped take her out early.

What do you think of them? Do you think it's sketchy?





Regarding these posts:

I'd prefer Dom to have the wand over MP. I just feel as though if this was Who MP would be all over Made right now. So I'll switch to Dom if he has a better chance at the wand.

You have a point there. MP is the king of "he slipped- he's a baddie". No matter Made's alliance, civ MP should have been all over him.


Bea, yeah, I'm passionate. I make mistakes, but I don't think I make them more than any other player (I'll just remind you that while I was suspicious of you and trusted Kitty, you and Roxy were suspicious of me and trusted Ash). I just take them to heart more. I really hate lynching a civ, hence my strong apology before.

linki: good question. I think the only person he voiced suspicion for, was DH, and it was strong

MP used to be the king of analysis & appraisal. I think he had more time back in the day. He jumps to conclusions more than he used to, bad or good, such as suspecting people due to slips. Like I do always, lol. That big post felt like old MP to me. Analytical and thought out (even though it was not correct re Llama). But the jumping on baddie slips etc. is not the style I always associated with MP, although admittedly it IS the style he has been playing in more recently, true. We all evolve.

Linki, yeah, I am not sure what anyone means by "staunch trust of Dom". I tend to have a total blind spot re Dom, and he is still up in the air for me.

I'd prefer Dom to have the wand over MP. I just feel as though if this was Who MP would be all over Made right now. So I'll switch to Dom if he has a better chance at the wand.

You have a point there. MP is the king of "he slipped- he's a baddie". No matter Made's alliance, civ MP should have been all over him.


Bea, yeah, I'm passionate. I make mistakes, but I don't think I make them more than any other player (I'll just remind you that while I was suspicious of you and trusted Kitty, you and Roxy were suspicious of me and trusted Ash). I just take them to heart more. I really hate lynching a civ, hence my strong apology before.

linki: good question. I think the only person he voiced suspicion for, was DH, and it was strong

I don't think you make them any more than any other player either. But I think passion can sometimes be misconstrued as having nefarious reasons and I wanted to point out the difference. yea - we were snowed by ash. They did a great job of divide and conquer in that game!

I know what a passionate civ you are. I've seen it so many times. I know you really do feel badly when you are a civ and you lynch another civ. I didn't want that point to go unnoticed. Especially when people who are less familiar with your play style were starting to suspect you for it.


linki - blooper! hi! How's it? What do you think about everyone else? Who are you trusting most obviously besides MP since you just voted him? - Who are you trusting least? Why? What do you think about what's been going on? Cuz things are going on now...


linkie more - zeek - do you mean that you think trust in dom is less/more than it should be vs trust in mp? or LC?

Oh, Okay. Thanks, I appreciate it

At this point, I have a vote, but I don't know who to give it to yet. MP has barely been here. I don't get the trust everyone is showing toward him. Not saying he's a baddie, but what has he done to gain that trust? Dom, I started out suspecting him but lately it's gone down. Still, not enough to make me give him the vote. Anyone else will just be pointless.

linki: I've played a few games with MP lately where he was all over someone who allegedly slipped, and wouldn't hear anything else. Once he decided it was a slip, he was on a crusade. Maybe it's different this time because he read it after it was analysed and not "live", I don't know.

linki: I've played a few games with MP lately where he was all over someone who allegedly slipped, and wouldn't hear anything else. Once he decided it was a slip, he was on a crusade. Maybe it's different this time because he read it after it was analysed and not "live", I don't know.

"Lately" agreed, he has been more about passion. Perhaps the enforced down time due to the posting restrictions, and the "read only" mode from moving slowed him down a bit. But while I certainly could be wrong, this really looks like the civ MP of old. Perhaps the memory of *that guy* is why I tend to suspect MP more often than not these days; he seems hastier in general than I recall.

Not sure about other people, but that is why i trust MP as much as I trust anyone in this game. Perhaps i should say that I distrust him less than the rest of the lot of you

I would say S~V~S expresses truth here, and I am impressed at her insight regarding my mafia behavior.

The main differences between my behavior this game and my behavior exercised in games over the past half a year or so are:
- My frequency of reading posts and being in the thread. This is crucial. Over the past semester, I was here in San Antonio by myself, dealing with the first semester of a very intense PhD program, and all my time was my own besides when I had classes and meetings, even if I was very busy. This game I was busy travelling and have been splitting my time between Daisy, getting her settled, etc. Essentially, before I would frequent the thread at least 5 times a day. Now? Every time I've posted has been me reading the thread, so I've been in the thread less. This is a return to a thread visitation frequency that was more typical of pre-PhD.
- I am specifically keeping in mind my failures in previous recent games, particularly Cars, where I dominated the thread and focused on ridiculous alleged slips, developing unnecessary tunnel vision. I am trying to better balance following my convictions and feelings, while also considering every possibility, something I feel I've gone away from in the last half a year as well.

Night is ending in ten mins isn't it? Alarm isn't far away.

I don't have much trust in anyone at the moment. LC, Dom and S~V~S are probably the three I trust the most right now.

I just don't see what it is MP has done to qualify for such trust. He's easy to trust, I get that, but that'sexactly why I'm wary of him.

Why those three? Especially LC and Dom.

You think I'm easy to trust?

Although personal reads etc. will have less & less bearing as we go along due to Tyler.

I don't think so, Tyler doesn't recruit in a game-altering kind of way.

This is my understanding as well. I don't think Tyler affects anything other than his own win condition by recruiting.

Linki that I'm not reading since I'm leaving the thread now, sorry folks.

[Epignosis]

Night 2: The Sorting Hurt

The goblin that sounded like Triple H was able to lead everyone to Hogwartz, where they were all mistaken for new students.

Headmaster Dumbledore greeted them all. “You are most welcome here!”

“Ture,” said a house-elf named Vompatti. “Butt let the Sorting Hat decide!”

nijuukyugou sat down.

“The Sorting Hat says you, nijuukyugou, belong in the House of Proctoring.” Dumbledore shook his head and added, “Good luck next week.”

MovingPictures07 sat down.

“The Sorting Hat says you, MovingPictures07, belong in the House of JK Lasser.” Dumbledore nodded. “I’ll be in contact before April.”

Elohcin sat down.

“The Sorting Hat says you, Elohcin, belong in the House of Ahsomass.” Dumbledore winked. “Quite a large following they have!”

insertnamehere sat down.

“The Sorting Hat says you, insertnamehere, are already a ghost, and therefore belong to the dead. Someone must have snuffed out your life, ere you were aware.”

“Awareness is expensive in Finald,” said Vompatti.

insertnamehere has been killed by The Necromancer. It is now Day 3. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

[Marmot]

that post is so big

[Epignosis]

Who should possess this mighty wand?

You may select 1 option

Bass_the_Clever
0
No votes

bea
3
Elohcin (14), FZ. (22), Snow Dog (23)
12%

Boomslang
0
No votes

DFaraday
0
No votes

Dom
5
Made (6), Mongoose (7), insertnamehere (9), Dom (25), zeek (26)
19%

DharmaHelper
0
No votes

Elohcin
1
bea (21)
4%

FZ.
0
No votes

Hedgeowl
0
No votes

insertnamehere
0
No votes

juliets
0
No votes

Lizzy
0
No votes

Long Con
2
Roxy (10), Long Con (13)
8%

Lorab
0
No votes

Made
0
No votes

Mongoose
0
No votes

MovingPictures07
10
Spacedaisy (5), Turnip Head (8), MovingPictures07 (11), S~V~S (12), juliets (16), Boomslang (17), timmer (18), nijuukyugou (19), reywaS (20), Russtifinko (24)
38%

nijuukyugou
0
No votes

reywaS
0
No votes

Roxy
0
No votes

Russtifinko
0
No votes

sabie12
0
No votes

Snow Dog
0
No votes

spacedaisy
0
No votes

S~V~S
1
DharmaHelper (15)
4%

timmer
0
No votes

Turnip Head
0
No votes

zeek
0
No votes

A Person (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
4
Epignosis (1), Black Rock (2), Metalmarsh89 (3), A Person (4)
15%


Total votes : 26

[bea]

Dom dom!
a) re: FZ - she's reading fairly genuine to me thus far. She messed up pretty big re: roxy and I in the last ksite game I played, but she's that kind of player. She goes with what she sees. Passionatly. And the ksite style is different from here. Those of us that have played in both worlds, I do truely believe it affects the way we play on the "not home" sites. (except for maybe rox and splintsy - they are weird anomolies) Correct me if you think I'm wrong FZ.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. This is twice that FZ has used two different sets of logic in similar situations without real reason, one time she found me suspicious for it. Do you see what I found concerning there?
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here-- ignore FZ?

b) re MP: *tee-hee* - BUT - he raises a fair point. You were BAD BAD BAD in Who and you played a perfect game as a baddie that due to circumstances beyond your control, by process of elimination, you were found out. I'm as weary of early trust toward you as I am early trust toward MP tbh. MP feels more open minded than he usually does regardless of alignment during this game. It makes me *want* to trust him. Maybe he learned a thing or two. But it doesn't mean I do quite yet - I don't quite trust you yet either. Would you expect it any other way with us?

I am slightly annoyed that MP called ME out in particular when others had received comparable votes-- and wowee! look who just HAPPENED to received SO many votes thereafter!
I have no reason to trust MP. His suspicions have been wrong and I haven't seen anything I'd call the hallmark of civvie MP yet. Do I think he's bad? Not really. Do I trust him? No.
But he only calls me out when LC has comparable votes? That makes me think-- why does he not want ME to get the wand.

c) re: elo - I think her vote for me was made from the best possible place. I have no reason to distrust her. I don't think she was doing it because she didn't want to be held accountable. I think she voted for the person she most trusted.

What do you think of her vote for Zeek?

d) re: your votes. In the first champions game, there was a similar scenario about this time in the game. It was a shield though (I don't remember what it did, but I do remember that who held it came into play later in the game.) I was voted in that game to recieve it first. Outside of BDH/Diggz - the other votes I recieved kinda sketched me out. This early in the game, does it worry you that people are putting that much trust in you? Do you get paranoid that there are baddies kissing up there? Because when I was in that spot. I did. Like lots.

I actually addressed this earlier, with MP. He seemed MUCH less worried about me getting the wand then. I don't particularly care if I get it, but I think MP might have manipulated you all into giving it to him. He is, far and away, the winner here. No one seems to question the trust of MP, but MP certainly started the talk about why are people trusting me. I'm going to be honest, the way MP played this has given me the idea that he might be trying to get me lynched here.

MP used to be the king of analysis & appraisal. I think he had more time back in the day. He jumps to conclusions more than he used to, bad or good, such as suspecting people due to slips. Like I do always, lol. That big post felt like old MP to me. Analytical and thought out (even though it was not correct re Llama). But the jumping on baddie slips etc. is not the style I always associated with MP, although admittedly it IS the style he has been playing in more recently, true. We all evolve.

Linki, yeah, I am not sure what anyone means by "staunch trust of Dom". I tend to have a total blind spot re Dom, and he is still up in the air for me.

TBH, I'd like to keep it that way (in general, not just you). Keeps me safe, regardless of who I am.
I agree with your analysis of MP-- but I haven't seen that as much as you. I agree he used to be much more analytical and appraisal-based. I haven't quite seen it. Doesn't mean I won't.

As I was reading, it seemed that those who voted for Dom expressed a confidence that I hadn't seen in the game until this poll came along. I believe others expressed this curiosity, as well. Perhaps I am overthinking/overreading? (Is that a word? It is now)

Linki @ Bea - Give me a bit to answer your questions - I am smelly from running and need a shower (not ignoring you )

Where have people justified their trust of MP? LC?
Why are people ONLY questioning the trust (that 3 people have) in me, and not in LC or the apparently the trust 9 people have in MP?

Bea, I am always wary of LC. LC taught me alot about being a baddie. My first reaction when I read the big post he made about not killing me the other day was, "Awww how sweet". My second reactions was, "Oh shit, I am dead, LC is gonna kill me". But that was just for a second.I pay a lot of attention to LCs tone, and I have not seen anything that worries me. At this stage I don't fully trust anyone, but when I man=de my wand vote, I waffled a bit between LC & MP. I waited to answer this until night was "over" ha ha. Why give anyone ideas?

Although personal reads etc. will have less & less bearing as we go along due to Tyler.

Do you remember what LC was in Dexter Mafia?
You reminded me of something here.

dom -

re: fz - I think she is a very passoniate civ. She could be trickery as a baddie. I totes thought she was bad in the last KSITE game based on her unwilliness to see me and rox as civs. The Baddies did a GREAT job of divide and conquer in that game. I think of her like us around the time of Huges mafia (minus the recrutment) if that helps you any? She's THAT kind of civ when she's civ. I'm not saying drop it per say. I'm saying think back to when we were that kind of civ player.... and then read her. Her vote for me helps me in trusting her, but I expect her to know that.

re: Mp - yea - I see what you are saying as well. Also - fwiw - I totally agree with your assesment of INH this game. I don't distrust him, but I don't quite trust him yet either. Not sure where his landslide trust is coming from especially since so many peeps have seen awesome MP baddie.

re: eloh - her vote for zeek was based IMO - on looking at the numbers for the votes made at the time. She was skimming the thread because she had kids and a house with no heat to attend to - she saw a weak connection and made the best vote she could make under those circumstances. I don't agree with her vote on Zeek in that lynch but I understand how she got there and why she made it. It doesn't make me trust her any less and I'm sure that she won't vote zeek again w/o a really good reason. Does that make sense?


re: MP trying to get you lynched - fwiw - I don't know if that was his goal (and I don't think it was) but it would take FAR more than anything that happened today to make me want to vote you.

re: dexter - what? share please. I was supposed to be in that game and I convinced diggz/bdh to play it - and then had to drop. I've always regretted not playing that game.What similarities are you seeing here?

also - again? Lorab? anytime...miss you....


god damn the linkie. posting then reading.

[zeek]

So did I get my times wrong and night has only just ended?

linki - i'll respond tomorrow MP, too tired right now

linki 2 - guess that answered that.

[Tangrowth]

Ah, seems night has ended! RIPIYWG INH. Weird choice for a kill.

Dom, I forgot to address one other item in that last post of mine. I also called out LC with this N2 poll, but I realize I called you out more strongly. This is because you were #2 on my suspects list at some point during the last cycle and LC has dropped off my top suspects. I don't trust either of you, and I wouldn't say you are #2 anymore, Dom, but if I had to say I would state that I'm feeling a bit more worried about you than LC at the moment. And I believe I explained this previously, but if I haven't adequately, let me know.

See you folks later!

[S~V~S]

Dom, I thought of that too. You saw my SECOND reaction? But a really careful reread gave me neither heebies nor jeebies. But yeah, watching LC is always a good policy. Watching all these people is a good policy. Watching YOU is a good policy

That said, I know INH was getting some support, but I did not really see it. I thought he was kinda sketchy BUT not strongly so. So RIP iywg, INH.

[Dom]

Can we all just acknowledge how much emphasis Epi puts on game balance? Good, now lets think about how Boddy hasn't blackmailed Made, because Made could not tell us if that had happened... cool, now lets think about an unknown blackmailer whose blackmailing can be revealed. Seem fair? Seem balanced? Not in my opinion.

This reminds me of the argument that we used to our advantage in DW about how my role (The Doctor) could never be recruited.

The truth is we don't know what could possibly go on this game, especially since it's a Champions game.

Nonetheless, I understand you raise a good counterpoint.

How do you feel about the possibilities regarding Made that I brought up previously?
1) Made info dumped and got in trouble with Epig, but this hasn't been confirmed due to host interference.
2) Made is cursed. Of course, he would have to argue he wasn't cursed.
3) Made is a civilian, lying, because he's pulling a gambit. Even though almost no player would do this, I could see Made doing it.

Of course, I realize 4) is that Made is a baddie and lying, and I do wonder if this is the case, but I don't understand why everyone is so convinced it is true. What benefit does Made have in this scenario? He brought so much attention unnecessarily to himself. The only reason I would think he would do this is if he is on a baddie team with someone who was really hot and wanted to take attention away from them -- someone such as Boomslang or DH.

I have to say, MP, that you truly have changed your tune on speculating on game secrets. . . .

rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

We know Llama is civ, why aren't there baddies on his list of voters?

I'm not advocating for a witch hunt of Llama voters, but I am using the same logic to reach that conclusion-- one that FZ opposes, apparently. I find that odd, Juliets.

I'm just curious about why Mongoose picked me, but it's a very minor ping.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I am interested to hear that as well, since I'm pretty sure she never mentioned you or zeek before that post.

Personally, if I was to vote anyone other than myself for this poll... at the moment I'm leaning Turnip Head. I know he can be an incredibly brilliant baddie, but I have received nothing but good vibes from him so far this game. Despite that, I am not too sure how I feel about a lot of players, so this will force me to consider other options as well.

MP, what do you make of Llama being a civvie?
I think Made might be a baddie, especially since Llama ended up being civvie. I suspect Boom more, but man, it makes it harder for me to give Made the BOTD.

What do I make of it? It was a possibility I considered. I thought he was bad. I'm disappointed he wasn't. I don't know what else there is to make of it. Made could still easily be a civilian. He could also be bad.

I don't understand how Made's alignment had anything to do with Llama's. Other than a possible "save attempt", which we have no reason to believe happened here more than any other possible lynch with two main participants -- who is to say they aren't BOTH civilian and baddies bandwagoned onto both of them?

Can you explain that?

Can I explain what?
I think it's possible that Made was saved. Possible, yes. I wanted to know what you think of that possibility.
You obviously think very lowly of it. If you already don't trust Made, can you see how this might look? I don't see why you're being so aggressive here.

DH, juliets, and DFaraday need to be very closely examined, IMO.

I also do not like the fact that Dom has three votes. Why are people trusting him?

. . . oh?
Ok?
Are you the trust police?

I entertain that Made could have been saved. I also entertain that DH could have been saved on D1. Or that Boomslang was. Why do people feel so strongly that Made was over either of those two?

I don't feel I'm being unnecessarily aggressive. But I suppose that's my go-to mafia behavior, as you are well aware.

Where did I say I was the trust police? I'm allowed to voice my opinion. You are high on my possible suspects list. I was merely asking why people trust you because I have seen no reason to do so whatsoever.

I do feel you are being unnecessarily aggressive. "Can you explain that?" I asked what you wanted me to even explain. You still have not told me that.
Again, if I think that Made might be bad, and he narrowly avoids a lynch against a civ-- what might that lead me to believe? You are ignoring my points.
ANNNNNNNNNNNND apparently I'm "high" on your possible suspect list again (after making you feel better, and then. . . people trusted. . . ME?!) That's funny, MP. I wasn't on your suspect list last time you posted your top 3.

[DharmaHelper]

Let me see if I can answer everything in MP's megapost directed at myself:

1. Made lying/what benefit/etc - Misfits mafia taught me that Made does not think on the same level as most people, to put it mildly. The dude practically lynched himself in that game. I honestly don't think he cares, as evidenced by him going toe to toe with Epi.

2. Who do I want to look at? - FZ, Bass, You, Made, Possibly some others but I've been very busy lately and couldn't tell you right now with any degree of certainty. I maintain that the llama vote was trumped, and that the *best* bet at finding a baddie is through looking at those who voted Llama. Yes, as JC put it, I am aware that there are likely baddies in the llama voters, the made voters, anyone who didn't vote, and anyone who voted for anyone other than llama or made. But the *BEST* place to find a baddie, in my view, is through the llama voters.

3. D1 Lynch/What makes Made bad vs. myself/etc? As I pointed out, the closeness of the vote is only one aspect of my suspicion of Made. A close vote by itself isn't all that damning, sure. Nothing I said about Made *BY ITSELF* is all that damning, but cumulatively, the pieces start to fit together. As for why I didn't receive any votes last time, your guess is as good as mine buddy.

[S~V~S]

I voted for you. Had the votes not started piling on Made, I would have left it there.

[Dom]

re: MP trying to get you lynched - fwiw - I don't know if that was his goal (and I don't think it was) but it would take FAR more than anything that happened today to make me want to vote you.

re: dexter - what? share please. I was supposed to be in that game and I convinced diggz/bdh to play it - and then had to drop. I've always regretted not playing that game.What similarities are you seeing here?

Let me put it another way, Bea. . .

MP had no problem with 9 people trusting him.
MP has a problem with 3 people trusting me. MP wants me to question why they trust me.
But no one dare question why people trust MP. . .

Interesting, no? Not damning, but hey-- I find it weird.

Ah, seems night has ended! RIPIYWG INH. Weird choice for a kill.

Dom, I forgot to address one other item in that last post of mine. I also called out LC with this N2 poll, but I realize I called you out more strongly. This is because you were #2 on my suspects list at some point during the last cycle and LC has dropped off my top suspects. I don't trust either of you, and I wouldn't say you are #2 anymore, Dom, but if I had to say I would state that I'm feeling a bit more worried about you than LC at the moment. And I believe I explained this previously, but if I haven't adequately, let me know.
See you folks later!

Your "suspicion" of me is based on you not liking my boomslang suspicion nor my made suspicion. I don't see good reasons for you to suspect me, tbh.
I wonder what you'll think of my rey/timmer suspicion when I present it on day 3.

Dom, I thought of that too. You saw my SECOND reaction? But a really careful reread gave me neither heebies nor jeebies. But yeah, watching LC is always a good policy. Watching all these people is a good policy. Watching YOU is a good policy

Agreed. I'm not worried from that specifically after LC's answer, but I wanted to be sure.

[Dom]

Did I miss Epi's post?

[S~V~S]

An addon to that, DH. I am not as sure today. I have been rather unsuccessful this game So I want to do some targeted rereading.

Linki, it's up there^^

[Dom]

An addon to that, DH. I am not as sure today. I have been rather unsuccessful this game So I want to do some targeted rereading.

Linki, it's up there^^

I found it.

RIPIYWG INH.


Top suspects:
1) Boomslang
2) Timmer
2) Reywas
4) Made

[bea]

bea, I went back and re-read the role description for Tyler and Tylers recruits don't change roles or alignments so it's not like the recruits we are used to from other games. Tyler wins by having more recruits than non-recruits in the game. From reading the description it doesn't look like being a recruit has any bearing on the recruit.

Thanks JC - that clarfication helps. it sounds like the role is survive to the end and have lots of recruits if the major win conditions don't change, I am inclicned to think of it as an indi survive to the end role. That said - what happens when recruits from both teams and civs go down cuz that will in the way the role is wrote. Do they have bts? there are more questions than answers here. I have need of your personal skills again soon. PM me when you can.

[zeek]

Fuck it, I'm awake.

Llama was a civ and Made's alignment is unknown. I am far more comfortable voting for somebody who voted for Made purely because we know for certain they weren't trying to save a teammate.

MP, you said earlier you don't trust me. Who do you trust?

Civilians vote civilians all the time.

What about the MM v. DH vote? We know MM was civilian. DH's alignment is unknown. Why aren't you factoring that into your analysis at all?

I don't trust anyone, frankly. I do, however, at the moment feel most relatively OK about Turnip Head, reywaS, and S~V~S.

I'm not discussing the MM v. DH vote because DH hasn't had the same stink on him that Made has over this forced vote. I've not forgotten it, it's simply not relevant to where we are in the game right now. Civs do vote civs all the time, but thats not really saying anything, is it?

This reminds me of the argument that we used to our advantage in DW about how my role (The Doctor) could never be recruited.

The truth is we don't know what could possibly go on this game, especially since it's a Champions game.

Nonetheless, I understand you raise a good counterpoint.

How do you feel about the possibilities regarding Made that I brought up previously?
1) Made info dumped and got in trouble with Epig, but this hasn't been confirmed due to host interference.
2) Made is cursed. Of course, he would have to argue he wasn't cursed.
3) Made is a civilian, lying, because he's pulling a gambit. Even though almost no player would do this, I could see Made doing it.

Of course, I realize 4) is that Made is a baddie and lying, and I do wonder if this is the case, but I don't understand why everyone is so convinced it is true. What benefit does Made have in this scenario? He brought so much attention unnecessarily to himself. The only reason I would think he would do this is if he is on a baddie team with someone who was really hot and wanted to take attention away from them -- someone such as Boomslang or DH.

How does it remind you of the unrecruitable Doctor scenario? The arguments are completely different. You're right, we don't know what could possibly be happening, so why are you so quick to accept what Made has said at face value?

You say yourself you think Made could be pulling a gambit as a civ, so why wouldn't he do it as a baddie? You have me worried right now because you seem eager to consider every alternative and the only one you're providing commentary on here is him being bad (which you dismiss almost entirely). Scenarios 1-4 are all possible, but I really doubt 1 and 2.

What happens if we lynch him and he flips civilian? How would this affect how you view other players?

Same way it'll change yours if he's lynched and he's bad.

Why those three? Especially LC and Dom.

You think I'm easy to trust?

I do think you're easy to trust. People know you, they like you, you're a leader and they know you love mafia.

Why those three? I think LC and S~V~S have both played a very balanced game and seem like their civvie selves. Dom seems very even-handed to me, is asking all the right questions and I find myself agreeing with most of what he says.

Linki to fuck.

[zeek]

Oh ffs. Standby.

[zeek]

Okay, so I am making the biggest U-turn in the world ever. Made wasn't lying.

And the Mad Hatter is a very naughty boy.