The Syndicate 2014 Game of Champions [ENDGAME]

[Boomslang]

I was making a statement for the lie detector, Boe, if he she wanted to check it. Also someone, I think Made, asked several people including me about the contrast in our good and bad alignment behavior. Someone, maybe llama, maybe someone else, answered the question immediately. My impression was thats why they were making that statement. I just can't remember who it was. I think tha'ts what you may be remembering and if i had to guess I would say it was llama.

Nevertheless, the statement makes a pretty firm commitment to a "civ" game. Because if Boe does check it, and finds it to be false, things could get awfully hairy for you. Unless you're an indy role with some secret that blocks lie detection... Hatter's insanity could be related. Just throwing that out there for consideration.

Regarding my MP vote, dude basically had the poll won by the time I was able to vote. Haven't been getting baddie vibes off of him so far, so went to confirm the safe option.

Linki with Dom:
1) My statement was WAY too early to indicate "possible lynch candidates"; I was opening a line of discussion, not throwing suspicions right off the bat.
2) You don't know if INH was silenced or if he was just not wanting to help me out of spite and earlier suspicion. His night post certainly threw a lot of shade my way; I was honestly trying to show good faith and was rebuffed.
3) Regarding those questions (of which there was actually only one, if you read your own post):
a) Civvies behave essentially randomly, especially at the start, while, Mafia do not. Civvies have no information, Mafia enjoy the knowledge of who is on their team.
b) I don't have to justify that there are baddies in the group I looked at. I was adding my perspective, not assigning absolute blame, like you seem willing and able to do on shaky ground at best.

[juliets]

I was making a statement for the lie detector, Boe, if he she wanted to check it. Also someone, I think Made, asked several people including me about the contrast in our good and bad alignment behavior. Someone, maybe llama, maybe someone else, answered the question immediately. My impression was thats why they were making that statement. I just can't remember who it was. I think tha'ts what you may be remembering and if i had to guess I would say it was llama.

Nevertheless, the statement makes a pretty firm commitment to a "civ" game. Because if Boe does check it, and finds it to be false, things could get awfully hairy for you. Unless you're an indy role with some secret that blocks lie detection... Hatter's insanity could be related. Just throwing that out there for consideration.

I don't think we disagree. I am making a firm commitment to a "civ" game. Maybe I'm missing your point but I think we agree.

[Dom]

Regarding my MP vote, dude basically had the poll won by the time I was able to vote. Haven't been getting baddie vibes off of him so far, so went to confirm the safe option.

Linki with Dom:
1) My statement was WAY too early to indicate "possible lynch candidates"; I was opening a line of discussion, not throwing suspicions right off the bat.
2) You don't know if INH was silenced or if he was just not wanting to help me out of spite and earlier suspicion. His night post certainly threw a lot of shade my way; I was honestly trying to show good faith and was rebuffed.
3) Regarding those questions (of which there was actually only one, if you read your own post):
a) Civvies behave essentially randomly, especially at the start, while, Mafia do not. Civvies have no information, Mafia enjoy the knowledge of who is on their team.
b) I don't have to justify that there are baddies in the group I looked at. I was adding my perspective, not assigning absolute blame, like you seem willing and able to do on shaky ground at best.

This is the first, actual, response I have gotten from you all game.
Can you see how that's problematic?

1) What else was it to indicate? Seriously? Opening a line of discussion to what, exactly? What else would that discussion lead to? Please, tell me how you saying we should start by looking at the non voters of D0 would indicate anything other than that you want to start considering them for a lynching?
2) I didn't say that INH was silenced. He was not. He posted during the day, did he not? Am I remembering that incorrectly? I think INH made plenty of points about you that were basically responded with, "Me?? Want You dead??? No!" EVEN though you named INH as someone you suspect (that was the question I asked of you that solicited his name).
3) I clarified in my next post that I meant that you didn't really respond to that post whatsoever, not that you didn't answer questions. But nice NO U.

[Boomslang]

I think I will revert to "Llama Classic" playstyle for this game and vote for someone who missed the first poll. Not very champion-like, you guys. Tsk tsk. The lucky people are:
Timmer
Mongoose
Lorab
and Hedgebaddie.

I wonder which one I will choose.

Wait a minute... how did this pass completely without comment from you, Dom? If you're going after me for indicating Day 0 absentees as worthy of discussion, and not after llama... who turned up civ. Metalmarsh voted SVS first day to draw out discussion, then shifted gears. Also turned up civ. I don't think my behavior has been out of line.

[Boomslang]

I was making a statement for the lie detector, Boe, if he she wanted to check it. Also someone, I think Made, asked several people including me about the contrast in our good and bad alignment behavior. Someone, maybe llama, maybe someone else, answered the question immediately. My impression was thats why they were making that statement. I just can't remember who it was. I think tha'ts what you may be remembering and if i had to guess I would say it was llama.

Nevertheless, the statement makes a pretty firm commitment to a "civ" game. Because if Boe does check it, and finds it to be false, things could get awfully hairy for you. Unless you're an indy role with some secret that blocks lie detection... Hatter's insanity could be related. Just throwing that out there for consideration.

I don't think we disagree. I am making a firm commitment to a "civ" game. Maybe I'm missing your point but I think we agree.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying that making an absolute commitment to saying "I am civ" is painting a target on your back for being NK'ed, unless you have powers to prevent it (or are not in fact civ).

[Dom]

I think I will revert to "Llama Classic" playstyle for this game and vote for someone who missed the first poll. Not very champion-like, you guys. Tsk tsk. The lucky people are:
Timmer
Mongoose
Lorab
and Hedgebaddie.

I wonder which one I will choose.

Wait a minute... how did this pass completely without comment from you, Dom? If you're going after me for indicating Day 0 absentees as worthy of discussion, and not after llama... who turned up civ. Metalmarsh voted SVS first day to draw out discussion, then shifted gears. Also turned up civ. I don't think my behavior has been out of line.

I found it more typical of those two players than I have associated with you.

[Dom]

Let me be more clear:

Llama is an antagonistic troll, oftentimes (love you, llama!! <3) I felt this fell in line with his personality and play style nicely.
Metalmarsh is a silly guy who often times makes no sense whatsoever.

These are not traits or the types of traits that I have associated with you as a player.

[Marmot]

Metalmarsh is a silly guy who often times makes no sense whatsoever.

[zeek]

I think maybe rewyas has been afflicted by some sort of curse, posting only in pics like someone said. Though didn't someone fake this in Python maybe? Dunno, either way I'd like to hear more from him through his pics.

I'm still unsure where I stand on some people.

bea, Dom and S~V~S - Despite the disparity in your views, I find myself agreeing with you two the most. I'd like to know your thoughts on how easily MP racked up votes for the wand. With BR probably being the Card Czar (due to the CAH stuff stopping), it's likely all baddies were alive during the N2 poll and yet MP was the only person who got over 5 votes. What do you think of the MP voters?

DF and Snowy - I'd like to hear who you trust and suspect.

DH - What are your thoughts on Made now? Top three suspects?

Elo - Got a reason for voting me yet?

Made - What are your reactions to those critical of your forced voting?

MP - Ultimately you were correct on Made's voting but I still feel the MP I know would have speculated a bit more on him being a baddie. You detailed a number of scenarios and the only one you really commented on in a significant way was him being a baddie, which you dismissed quickly. Can you also provide us anything on what happened with the wand?

Roxy - You've been a bit defensive over the past few days and I don't wish to make you continue this, but I found some of your comments confusing. Do you think we should be looking at the people who lynched MM and llama? Wasn't sure if it was sarcasm.

sabie12 - I saw you were online last night but did not post (possibly didn't even come onto the thread), got anything to say?

That's all I got for now. Still rereading the rest of you :P

[S~V~S]

We only missed CAH one night~ there are blocks, dropped PMs etc. I would be more convinced of that re BR when there is no CAH 2 nights in a row. Plus there have been 2 NKs right?

@Epi~ do powers go through on the night someone dies?

I voted MP because he is playing the level civ game I came to expect from MP. The past while, he has been playing the hyper game i associate with his bad self more often than not, even when civ. This game, the enforced slow down, perhaps, from having to wait for a less prolific person to post, has done him some good, I think. I can't speak for the others, and am not sure why you would expect me to. Just because someone gets a lot of positive votes does not mean they have baddie teammates backing them up.

And I think TH is silenced. Zeek, what time did you get your PM? I was wondering about one or two others being possibly silenced, but they made a post or so after the Night Post. So it is possible they also got late PMs, or did not check their inbox. There is not a pop up notification in the light theme.

[Snow Dog]

Waiting for me to make a Federal Case out of it, aren't you?

Talking of Federal cases, you have used this phrase twice before in Syndicate history, but reywaS has never used it before. This is his first time saying it.

[S~V~S]

So we are back to this? Two people several hours apart using the same not uncommon (in the USA) phrase must have BTSC? I don't have BTSC with Rey, nor do I have it with anyone else.

Maybe Rey thinks I am brilliant and awesome (not an unlikely supposition) and wants to emulate me in all things Or maybe it was a coincidence.

[Snow Dog]

So we are back to this? Two people several hours apart using the same not uncommon (in the USA) phrase must have BTSC? I don't have BTSC with Rey, nor do I have it with anyone else.

Maybe Rey thinks I am brilliant and awesome (not an unlikely supposition) and wants to emulate me in all things Or maybe it was a coincidence.

I'm not back to this. I never stopped thinking about it. Maybe your maybe is correct or maybe it was a coincidence. Or maybe not. But it is evidence.

[Snow Dog]

And now you keep using it as a joke to solidify the fact of it's common usage.

[zeek]

Snowy, I can see what you're saying but I just don't know in what context they would use that in a chatroom.

We only missed CAH one night~ there are blocks, dropped PMs etc. I would be more convinced of that re BR when there is no CAH 2 nights in a row. Plus there have been 2 NKs right?

We've not got results back from the first CAH submissions, as far as we know anyway. We should have heard something about that before the second NK, right?

Also, I'm not questioning your vote for MP. Your reasoning seems genuine to me but I'd like your opinions on the others, as I seem to remember a few who didn't even post but voted that way.

And I think TH is silenced. Zeek, what time did you get your PM? I was wondering about one or two others being possibly silenced, but they made a post or so after the Night Post. So it is possible they also got late PMs, or did not check their inbox. There is not a pop up notification in the light theme.

I got my PM at 12:47am GMT, 8 mins after the night post. Didn't see it until after I'd replied to MP's huge post, so it's possible others didn't see a PM as well.

[Snow Dog]

Snowy, I can see what you're saying but I just don't know in what context they would use that in a chatroom.

No, I don't either. But...it is a possibility. Not worth a vote in itself. But add that to other rey suspicions I've seen floating around and may add up to something.

[Elohcin]

I don't think the Card Czar could be Hedgeowl Elo because the Car Czar requested cards on our first night and then didn't anymore. Hedgie, as you point out, never even checked in so the chances it was her are slim I think.

Oh okay. I didn't know the Card Czar had to specifically request cards. Stinks.....I really wanted to see those results. @Epi - can we see those results at end game?

Elo - Got a reason for voting me yet?

At the point in which I voted for you, your posts felt suspicious to me. Put together, they didn't seem too helpful. I thought you could be trying to say enough to look like a participating civ, but not saying too much as to give yourself away as a baddie. At this point, however, I am less suspicious of you. As MP said in an earlier post, suspicions change. And why wouldn't they...as the days go on and more posts are made?

[Made]

Crap, just realized that today is tuesday, and i might not be back home until 7pm, i have a study hall around 11:40, and should have some down time around 3:00 but i won't be as involved as i might like:

Re: Zeek- Honestly, the case against me seemed like bullshit, but not more bull than most arguments brought up against me. The thing that throws me is DH's suspicion of me. It seems like the kind of unrelenting suspicion i'd expect of like Dom. I mean, seeming consistent is important to avoid suspicion (something civvies are also incentivized to do), but at the same time his reasoning has continued to change and starting to feel strained.

class is ending, i'll be around around 11

[zeek]

Elo - Thanks for explaining a bit more, which you didn't really do before. Happy with that response.

Made - I agree in part over DH. Having come over from suspecting you now, I can see where DH was coming from but I think he's still carrying over his suspicion despite new evidence. Feels like he's finding a reason to still suspect you.

[reywaS]

Snowy, I can see what you're saying but I just don't know in what context they would use that in a chatroom.

No, I don't either. But...it is a possibility. Not worth a vote in itself. But add that to other rey suspicions I've seen floating around and may add up to something.

[reywaS]

Hi, so I'm officially Nocturnal. No school, so i woke up at 6 <_< anyways, lots of interesting stuff.
I think this situation Llama v Made voters is very similar to that of Made V The World in Monty Python.

Found it:

Day 3


Get on with it!
Poll ended at Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:49:18 pm


Bea
0
No votes
birdwithteeth11
0
No votes
Boogs
0
No votes
Bullz
0
No votes
Canucklehead
0
No votes
Dana
0
No votes
Hedgeowl
0
No votes
Juliets
2
birdwithteeth11 (19), reywaS (23) 9%
Long Con
0
No votes
LoRab
0
No votes
Made
5
thellama73 (7), Hedgeowl (8), Metalmarsh89 (9), nijuukyugou (13), Boogs (14) 22%
Metalmarsh
1
Mister Rearranger (5) 4%
Mister Rearranger
9
Made (2), Keterman (11), S~V~S (12), bea (16), juliets (17), Bullzeye (18),Enrique (20), Mongoose (21), Dana (22) 39%
Mongoose
1
Canucklehead (15) 4%
nijuukyugou
0
No votes
reywaS
0
No votes
Spacedaisy
0
No votes
S~V~S
1
Long Con (10) 4%
Thellama73
0
No votes
Oh, anyway, on to scene 24/ Hosts/Mod/GOD/Dead Folk/Nons
4
Roxy (1), MovingPictures07 (3), DisgruntledPorcupine (4), Dom (6) 17%
Total votes : 23

baddies in red.
SVS was Neutral.
While it doesn't prove anything, it a jumping off point. I have a few more close lynches like this if more data is needed. I'm really good at getting lynched. Maybe instead of looking at those who voted me or Llama, we look at those who didn't make a decision to do either

I think the Night poll just proved nothing more than People know who MP is and people like him. This has more to do with who MP is than what his alignment is.
That said does the wand do?

Also Dom, historically, what has been your opinion on "wasting votes", voting for someone you know won't get lynched? I have my own personal philosophy on the subject, but i'm curious of yours.

linki- to tag on to what Juliets said, I think Reywas should do was he did earlier, underline phrases and show whether he agrees or disagrees with them with smiles or pictures.

[Tangrowth]

Dom, I know I commented earlier, but since you asked: I still don't really see anything in the timmer and rey suspicion. The fact that Blooper thinks it has "merit" is odd to me and something I hope she can clarify on.

Not to mention rey is clearly cursed and that timmer is having RL issues (unfortunately, since I was looking forward to playing with him). So I want to hear what rey has on his mind and also see what happens with timmer. I find no reason to suspect either of them right now, frankly.

Roxy, I'm not saying that only Llama voters should be scrutinized, but we don't know Made's alignment. It's still very possible that he is a baddie, in which case he probably would have had teammates vote for Llama. I was mainly making my point in regards to FZ's statement that the Made voters should be focused on, which seems counterintuitive to me.

My point is that why didn't you scrutinize the Metalmarsh voters for a poss DH save if it is such a great place to start?

Thanks SVS about the reminder that it was Dr Who.

The point is we both were not baddies. The last time we were baddies together was WWE, where we nearly killed each other in thread and out. When were you thinking of that we were both baddies and getting along. I don't recall that tbh.

You are prob right as my memory is shit at even remembering what roles I have had in games but I was thinking it was a TP game - I want to say it was awhile back and the theme had something to do with computers or something recruiting-wise. I wish I had some sort of TP directory of games. So many great memories on that site.

MP - I am doing some reading I'll get back to you.

Computer Lab, STLGirl hosted. I was bad with Kate, DP and I don't recall the third. Tranq was on the other bad team. I don't know that MP played that one. Kate was recruited, she won and I was not and did not. The recruit team was the Botnet.

I was in that one! I was one of the IRC chatroomers with LT and BF. They both got recruited to the Botnet and I didn't. And I did trust S~V~S in that game and it burned me... but I didn't know S~V~S or practically anyone that well at the time. I learned from that one.

I think they are both better players than that, actually. As a planned strategy of avoidance, I dunno. And speaking of quiet, where is TH? He has not posted since before the night post. Could he be silenced? He was quiet-ish Day One. Then he was more vocal yesterday.

I would like to revisit the Day One lynch. So many people were so sure of Boomslang & DH. Then I butted in with my MM paranoia. I take the responsibility for the MM lynch. But what about everyones feelings about DH & Boom? Who was saving who? Anyone? No one?

I would also like to revisit the D1 lynch. Why is no one really talking about it?

Would you consider a DH vote today, S~V~S?

MP - Ultimately you were correct on Made's voting but I still feel the MP I know would have speculated a bit more on him being a baddie. You detailed a number of scenarios and the only one you really commented on in a significant way was him being a baddie, which you dismissed quickly. Can you also provide us anything on what happened with the wand?

I don't understand. Everyone was suspecting Made because they thought he was lying. Turns out he wasn't. I speculated plenty on him being a baddie, I kept asking where's the benefit in lying about it and bringing so much attention to himself?

Not sure what you want(ed) from me. I thought my thoughts on the matter were clear. I thought it was a very weak and trumped up reason to suspect someone.

Why do you want me to talk about the wand in public? 2 things: 1) I'm not sure that's a good idea (baddies) and 2) I'm not sure I'm even allowed to. What do people think here? I can solve 2) by asking Epig if people can prove to me that 1) is misguided.

Snowy, I can see what you're saying but I just don't know in what context they would use that in a chatroom.

No, I don't either. But...it is a possibility. Not worth a vote in itself. But add that to other rey suspicions I've seen floating around and may add up to something.

This seems contrived to me, or, at the least very weak.

What do you think about DH? Made? Me? Practically anyone? You haven't really said much this game, Snowy, from what I recall -- other than about this slip. And it worries me.

[zeek]

What I mean is you speculated on the possiblities surrounding Made but really seemed set on dismissing him lying. The way you addressed that possibility was not the same as you addressed the others. Whether you thought it was weak or not, you didn't not give them an even look, which I found very un-MP-like.

You're right about the wand actually. Don't say anything, better you don't discuss it.

[Snow Dog]

Any point I make in any game seems often the contrived or forced to you MP. I just can't win. Maybe I'll start calling your ideas forced and contrived. At least I checked how many how many times this phrase has been used. Ok no one agrees that it's important. Let's move on. I get it. If rey and SVs turn up bad i won't even say a thing.

Anyway I am wary of you Mp always. I want to trust you though. You've done nothing to warrant suspicion yet.

[Snow Dog]

addedndum. I said plenty about Made, MP. don't go making things up now.

[Tangrowth]

What I mean is you speculated on the possiblities surrounding Made but really seemed set on dismissing him lying. The way you addressed that possibility was not the same as you addressed the others. Whether you thought it was weak or not, you didn't not give them an even look, which I found very un-MP-like.

You're right about the wand actually. Don't say anything, better you don't discuss it.

Seemed set on dismissing? Yeah, I suppose you could say that, because I didn't comprehend any logical reason that he would lie as a baddie.

I don't understand how it was very un-MP-like, but if you think that, then I don't know what else to say about it.

Where are you looking right now?

Any point I make in any game seems often the contrived or forced to you MP. I just can't win. Maybe I'll start calling your ideas forced and contrived. At least I checked how many how many times this phrase has been used. Ok no one agrees that it's important. Let's move on. I get it. If rey and SVs turn up bad i won't even say a thing.

Anyway I am wary of you Mp always. I want to trust you though. You've done nothing to warrant suspicion yet.

I had no intention of offending you, so I apologize if I did.

Anyway, I just was curious what you thought about everyone, and I just found it odd you were concentrating on the slip since I just don't see it -- especially since you haven't been discussing as many players as I'm used to doing. I recall now that you mentioned Made, but considering he wasn't lying I was wondering what you thought of him now.

You still haven't said anything about DH. What do you think of him?

[Made]

ReywaS, I'm assuming that the shaking head means you aren't allowed to edit post or quote only part of a message?

[Snow Dog]

What I mean is you speculated on the possiblities surrounding Made but really seemed set on dismissing him lying. The way you addressed that possibility was not the same as you addressed the others. Whether you thought it was weak or not, you didn't not give them an even look, which I found very un-MP-like.

You're right about the wand actually. Don't say anything, better you don't discuss it.

Seemed set on dismissing? Yeah, I suppose you could say that, because I didn't comprehend any logical reason that he would lie as a baddie.

I don't understand how it was very un-MP-like, but if you think that, then I don't know what else to say about it.

Where are you looking right now?

Any point I make in any game seems often the contrived or forced to you MP. I just can't win. Maybe I'll start calling your ideas forced and contrived. At least I checked how many how many times this phrase has been used. Ok no one agrees that it's important. Let's move on. I get it. If rey and SVs turn up bad i won't even say a thing.

Anyway I am wary of you Mp always. I want to trust you though. You've done nothing to warrant suspicion yet.

I had no intention of offending you, so I apologize if I did.

Anyway, I just was curious what you thought about everyone, and I just found it odd you were concentrating on the slip since I just don't see it -- especially since you haven't been discussing as many players as I'm used to doing. I recall now that you mentioned Made, but considering he wasn't lying I was wondering what you thought of him now.

You still haven't said anything about DH. What do you think of him?

I apologise for being tetchy. It's me not you. I am having difficulty as usual on finding anything really to latch on to. My fault again as I should be reading more thoroughly. I will try and get down to rereading some stuff.

About DH. Well i don't really know much about his playstyle. I guess you'll go and show me how many games played with him now, but for my part I don't remember. But what i read sounds believable. Do you think he is bad? If so can you concisely explain why?

Made is civ. That's what I think anyway.
Elo's vote for zeek pinged me a bit.

[Snow Dog]

In fact MP. I really am not sure who to vote and that worries me.

[DFaraday]

Zeek, to address your point about whom I trust or suspect, I don't have anyone I feel very sure of as being civ (other than myself), but I'm feeling pretty good about Dom, SVS, and FZ. I disagree with FZ's line of thinking, but I feel like this is similar to her civvie style from Cars.

As for suspects, Made is still on my radar for how weird his actions have been (although I'm less suspicious since we found out he's not necessarily lying),and the way Boomslang did a NO U on Dom has me eying him a bit more. DH is still a big question mark for me.

I also find it weird how so many people trust MP, as I don't have a stance on him either way this game.

[zeek]

Seemed set on dismissing? Yeah, I suppose you could say that, because I didn't comprehend any logical reason that he would lie as a baddie.

I don't understand how it was very un-MP-like, but if you think that, then I don't know what else to say about it.

Where are you looking right now?

It was logic enough for 8 people. I'm not going to beat you over the head with this but I just don't see why you didn't give it more consideration. But there you go, we've reached an impasse on that.

I don't know who to really look at right now. Got 5 people on my shortlist: Boom, DH, DF, Rox and yourself.

[juliets]

zeek, what is it about DF that you find suspicious?

[Turnip Head]

Hey guys, sorry for not posting recently. The past couple days have been hella busy for me but I've got some time today so I'm gonna do a quick catch up and collect my thoughts.

[timmer]

Well, I've got an entire afternoon alone at home, so since I haven't been replaced I'm going to try to catch the fuck up and form some thoughts.

I just read the entirety of Day 1.

My notes:

DH certainly could be bad, but I didn't see it from his posts here. He was just DH being DH imo, which helped propel the day into some good conversation.

LC definitely did jump a bit opportunistically into voting early for rey. That's a small ping for me, as I don't remember LC being the vote early type. The rest of the day he seemed pretty defensive... BUT, when you get locked into a war of words with DH, that tends to happen. Anyone would look like they were defensive when the arguments never stop. So my small ping remains, but it's small.

Sable, who I do not know as a player, made only one post the whole day, right near the beginning, and it was to agree with the llama's idea of voting for a non-participant. Boomslang also kind of echoed that three minutes from sable's post. I find this a bit pingy, as the idea, EARLY on Day 1, of voting for a Day 0 non-participant isn't exactly standard mafia stuff. If Day 1 progresses along and it's getting late and someone doesn't have a ping, then sure you vote a non-participant if that floats your boat. And sure, the llama coming out right away with the idea doesn't fit that, but it also started conversation. what pings me is two people AGREEING with the idea at the very start of day 1, so sable and boomslang join DH on my ping list.

I'd have voted LC day 1, but MM's "you don't want to lynch me" post may have made me change my vote. That's not good chat right there.

One last question about votes... at what point did it become common knowledge that votes could be changed? Did we all know this before Day 1? Because I noticed some people mention that you could on Day 1, and sometimes that can be a sign that a baddie had already voted, noticed they could revote, and told their teammates. But if Epig told us this earlier, that is moot.

Onto Night 1/Day 2.

[Spacedaisy]

I assume people noticed when they started voting, that is the point when it would become clear. I just recall someone who voted early made a comment about since it was changeable and that was the point when I asked i thread because I didn't know before that point.

[Epignosis]

@Epi~ do powers go through on the night someone dies?

Yes.

@Epi - can we see those results at end game?

Sure.

[FZ.]

I really have no idea who I'm going to vote for. I feel there are too many players not active enough, and the fact that there was so much chaos surrounding Made's forced vote did not help things much. I think it just made it easy for the baddies to blend in.

I have a few questions:
1. I noticed a lot of Dom's posts end with a question of the "can you see how..." type. Is that what he normally does? Because I don't remember that. I was wondering if people might have input on that.
2. LC and Made both felt very strongly about DH, yet I haven't seen either of them pursue that strong feeling recently. I have to wonder why. Is it that they backed of because it didn't work for them because people were not following, or did they actually change their mind and if so, why?
3. Any thoughts concerning Mongoose?

I would really like to hear more from Roxy, TH, Mongoose and all the rest that have kind of disappeared.

[Turnip Head]

The llama suspicion being weak, and the subtle defending from Bass and TH (and possibly others, I can't recall specifics and its too late atm to go fishing)

I do recall Bass making a post along the line of "I see the case on Made, but can we really afford to pull the trigger?" and TH's support of Made is well documented.

You call that subtle defending? lol I was pretty outspoken about it. I absolutely believed we should not lynch Made based on yesterday's "evidence". I think it was ignorant to vote for Made without considering all points of view. I stated a few times that Made could still be a baddie, but not for the reasons that people were voting for him. That said, I've felt good about Made in all his recent posts so I'll continue to subtly defend him because I think he's a civvie.

Logically, in a game like this and in actual detective work, etc, it makes the most sense to start with the larger picture and work your way down into smaller chunks that are easier to analyze.

For me, the most logical "chunk" to analyze is llama voters.

That might be the most logical chunk for you, DH, but I don't see the logic in it at all. I actually think that most of the Llama voters were civvies who felt Made was being wrongly accused by Llama and others. Possibly a baddie or two in there since the votes were so focused on two individuals. But I don't think there's any reason to analyze the Llama voters over the Made voters, UNLESS Made is a baddie. And we'd have to lynch Made to find that out, and I don't think he's a baddie, so... unless you get Made lynched, and he then flips baddie, unless that happens then I don't see how we can possibly walk down this line of logic.

In fact, I feel much more compelled to look at the Made voters than the Llama voters. Some people probably truly believed Made was lying, but I think others were aware that they could hop on that bandwagon without looking too suspicious. Made clearly made waves on Day 2 and I can see the baddies in their chatrooms salivating at the opportunity for an easy lynch.

[FZ.]

The llama suspicion being weak, and the subtle defending from Bass and TH (and possibly others, I can't recall specifics and its too late atm to go fishing)

I do recall Bass making a post along the line of "I see the case on Made, but can we really afford to pull the trigger?" and TH's support of Made is well documented.

You call that subtle defending? lol I was pretty outspoken about it. I absolutely believed we should not lynch Made based on yesterday's "evidence". I think it was ignorant to vote for Made without considering all points of view. I stated a few times that Made could still be a baddie, but not for the reasons that people were voting for him. That said, I've felt good about Made in all his recent posts so I'll continue to subtly defend him because I think he's a civvie.

Logically, in a game like this and in actual detective work, etc, it makes the most sense to start with the larger picture and work your way down into smaller chunks that are easier to analyze.

For me, the most logical "chunk" to analyze is llama voters.

That might be the most logical chunk for you, DH, but I don't see the logic in it at all. I actually think that most of the Llama voters were civvies who felt Made was being wrongly accused by Llama and others. Possibly a baddie or two in there since the votes were so focused on two individuals. But I don't think there's any reason to analyze the Llama voters over the Made voters, UNLESS Made is a baddie. And we'd have to lynch Made to find that out, and I don't think he's a baddie, so... unless you get Made lynched, and he then flips baddie, unless that happens then I don't see how we can possibly walk down this line of logic.

In fact, I feel much more compelled to look at the Made voters than the Llama voters. Some people probably truly believed Made was lying, but I think others were aware that they could hop on that bandwagon without looking too suspicious. Made clearly made waves on Day 2 and I can see the baddies in their chatrooms salivating at the opportunity for an easy lynch.

Don't go there. Been there, done that. No one listens...

[DharmaHelper]

As an answer to you Zeek -

I'm looking at FZ myself. I can see the concern regarding Reywas/Timmer both being very quiet and the whole thing with them not posting much during the contest. I can see some of the Boom stuff being thrown about. I'm still eyeing Made. Right now I'm in the "wait and see" mode, really trying just to digest things rather than continue to spit out whatever comes to mind.

[FZ.]

By the way, TH, did you not see that I said all the things you said? Did you see and choose not to say you agree with me? And is it good that you agree with me? Because everyone tells me my logic is flawed.


I'm going out. I'll be back later

[Turnip Head]

And why is no one ever discussing DFaraday except me and FZ.? What do players think of him?

It's hard to discuss a player who only has 11 posts so far and usually isn't a heavy contributor, but I looked over DF's posts and found a few noteworthy points:

Day 1:

I tend not to suspect people who early game shenanigans, but if they keep it up later on it can seem like a deflection tactic.

DF says he's gonna cut the crazies some slack on Day 1. You'll recall that the big hoopla on Day 1 was about MM's early early vote. So here's DF's very next post:

I have found MM rather shifty, particularly his questions of Llama that seemed to be setting Llama up.

I also am wary of DH, but I've never been able to read him.

Now he's on MM's case, but for a different reason than "early game shenanigans". He thought MM was trying to do some baddie voodoo on Llama. He admits to being wary of DH, the other major candidate for the Day 1 lynch. So here's MM's direct response to that post, with DF's follow-up reply attached:

I have found MM rather shifty, particularly his questions of Llama that seemed to be setting Llama up.

I also am wary of DH, but I've never been able to read him.

I was looking for a reaction from SVS. The question was not shifty, nor was I trying to set llama up.

That may be, but as I don't have time to analyze this DH/LC stuff, I'll still vote you because it cricked my brow.

So DF admits that he could have read MM's post wrong, but still votes for him because he didn't have time to analyze the "DH/LC stuff". He didn't have time to analyze the MM stuff either, it seems, but that didn't stop DF from voting for him in an extremely close lynch that ended up being a tie. What's odd to me here is that DF would stick to his MM vote based on faulty reasoning rather than look into the LC or DH suspicion or move his vote elsewhere. It felt like by that time DF just really wanted to vote for MM no matter what.

Day 2:

Dom did sum it up pretty well, and I agree that Made's behavior is pretty sketchy, but I'd like to hear Made try to explain himself as well.

Anyway, I don't know what to think of Made. I do think it's odd that he would pretend to be forced, but on the other hand, I don't see why a baddie would draw attention to themselves out of the blue like that.

I don't see the case on Llama, but the way I see it, Made lying is suspect, although baffling no matter what alignment he is. I will vote Made because he is the only one really pinging me.

DF's three Day 2 posts, all about Made with a defense of Llama. The Llama defense checks out, there wasn't really a case on Llama yesterday if we're being frank. But DF marched willingly into the "Made is lying" camp on Day 2.

Day 3:

Since Zeek is indicating that Made isn't lying, I guess I feel a little better about Made, although I do wonder whether the lynch yesterday was civ/civ or civ/baddie. I do think it would be more sensible to look first at the people who voted for a confirmed civ than those who voted someone whose alignment is unknown.

Okay, so here's where I start to get worried. Is DF a baddie trying to protect his own interests, or is this his genuine thought process? As others have pointed out, DF wants to go after players who voted for Llama, a confirmed civ, rather than go after players who have voted for Made, an unknown. Yet DF was one of the deciding votes against a confirmed civvie on Day 1. By the same token of logic, why doesn't DF think we should investigate the MM voters for a possible DH save? Why start the search with the Llama voters when we don't know Made's alignment? What if Day 2 was civ/civ and Day 1 was civ/bad?

In any case, I am far from ready to start analyzing voting patterns at this stage of the game since we haven't caught a single baddie. I don't think vote based analysis is the way to go just yet. But I think there's some contradictions in DF's posts so far that merit keeping an eye on. Whether those are genuine civvie contradictions or baddie-minded ones is the question I'll be trying to find the answer to.

[Turnip Head]

By the way, TH, did you not see that I said all the things you said? Did you see and choose not to say you agree with me? And is it good that you agree with me? Because everyone tells me my logic is flawed.


I'm going out. I'll be back later

Yes, I saw that, and I meant to point out that I thought you, Roxy, and MP were all making very astute points today. I think it's good that we agree

[DharmaHelper]

The llama suspicion being weak, and the subtle defending from Bass and TH (and possibly others, I can't recall specifics and its too late atm to go fishing)

I do recall Bass making a post along the line of "I see the case on Made, but can we really afford to pull the trigger?" and TH's support of Made is well documented.

You call that subtle defending? lol I was pretty outspoken about it. I absolutely believed we should not lynch Made based on yesterday's "evidence". I think it was ignorant to vote for Made without considering all points of view. I stated a few times that Made could still be a baddie, but not for the reasons that people were voting for him. That said, I've felt good about Made in all his recent posts so I'll continue to subtly defend him because I think he's a civvie.

Logically, in a game like this and in actual detective work, etc, it makes the most sense to start with the larger picture and work your way down into smaller chunks that are easier to analyze.

For me, the most logical "chunk" to analyze is llama voters.

That might be the most logical chunk for you, DH, but I don't see the logic in it at all. I actually think that most of the Llama voters were civvies who felt Made was being wrongly accused by Llama and others. Possibly a baddie or two in there since the votes were so focused on two individuals. But I don't think there's any reason to analyze the Llama voters over the Made voters, UNLESS Made is a baddie. And we'd have to lynch Made to find that out, and I don't think he's a baddie, so... unless you get Made lynched, and he then flips baddie, unless that happens then I don't see how we can possibly walk down this line of logic.

In fact, I feel much more compelled to look at the Made voters than the Llama voters. Some people probably truly believed Made was lying, but I think others were aware that they could hop on that bandwagon without looking too suspicious. Made clearly made waves on Day 2 and I can see the baddies in their chatrooms salivating at the opportunity for an easy lynch.

You were the loudest of the bell-ringers, I will grant you that :P I used the word "subtle defending" mostly talking about Bass and anybody else apart from you, since you were obviously being very up front about it.

As to your second point, I see what you're saying, but everything you said carries with it a shitload of personal bias.

[Turnip Head]

Where has Long Con gone? Perhaps silenced?

[timmer]

So I went back thru Day 1 again to see if any of the people who mentioned that the votes could be changed had said so before voting, which tripped someone up in a past game iirc, but alas, no one did.

I just through Day 2. It was mostly the Made show, and with a full read, I'd have still voted that way, it was the best lead available.

That said, I'm still getting pinged by LC.

He's smart, he know how to ask the proper questions.

So when he says this:

I should note that I only asked in relation to Mr Boddy, so it wouldn't cover any secret weird stuff from another role. I think the answer would be the same.

I get pinged. A civ LC would be worried that a civ Made was getting framed. He would, imo, not only ask in relation to Mr. Boddy but also in terms of any other roles. "I think the answer would be the same"?? No. He would ask and come back with the answer. A baddie LC would post the above, though. He basically started the "ask the host, you'll see he's lying" trend, and didn't try to expand his question to provide Made with the possible out.

[timmer]

Time to get some housework done, but I'll return for the final leg of Catchup 2015 soon.

[zeek]

Gonna be really honest with you guys, I'm on the fence on who to vote for and I am not inclined to investigate any further to come up with a really good reason to vote one way or another. I've just asked my girlfriend's parents for their blessing to ask her to marry me. They said yes and were over the moon! But that's left me wanting to enjoy the night with her when she gets back from the gym.

I don't want to waste my vote but my reasoning here is not going to be strong.

I'm CHANGING my vote, Epi, from S~V~S to DharmaHelper.

I feel as though DH is hanging onto his suspicion of Made because the forced vote thing was a way to justify a vote without really justifying it. Out of the people I've been looking I just feel the least comfortable with his gameplay at the moment. That's all I've got. It's poor, but that's it.

Have a great night guys, I know I will

[Turnip Head]

That said, I'm still getting pinged by LC.

He's smart, he know how to ask the proper questions.

So when he says this:

I should note that I only asked in relation to Mr Boddy, so it wouldn't cover any secret weird stuff from another role. I think the answer would be the same.

I get pinged. A civ LC would be worried that a civ Made was getting framed. He would, imo, not only ask in relation to Mr. Boddy but also in terms of any other roles. "I think the answer would be the same"?? No. He would ask and come back with the answer. A baddie LC would post the above, though. He basically started the "ask the host, you'll see he's lying" trend, and didn't try to expand his question to provide Made with the possible out.

I share some of your concerns about LC. He has been very quick to act, all game. Hit rey up with an early vote for early voting on Day 1, then quickly voted DH on Day 2 but then switched it to Made once that thread started unraveling. I'm thinking he may be silenced though.

[Turnip Head]

btw Zeek congrats on the awesome news!!!!