The Late Bronze Age Collapse [END]

[DrWilgy]

Seanzie does this allthe time

Alright and so do I? Very much a time where I'd chain games putting a 3rd vote down just to see how'd people interact around it.

Further, if it's NAI why is he discounted in the read? Where has your read on where's it's specifically wolfy for either me or Michelle to have been the 2nd and 3rd vote?

I never said im scum reading for being the 2nd or the 3rd.
This is why i think you are more likely to be scum than Michelle, because Michelle has read my content, she knows why she is being scum read. You on the other are still pretending not to know when ive been clear why i think you are scum if Michelle is not, you are still playing dumb and it infuriates to the point i wanna kill you with my own hands tonight, except i cant kill.

Maybe, JUST maybe, you aren't being clear? is that somehow within the realm of possibility to you?

No, i have been clear

clearly wolfy

Ok sure.

Say im mafia, who is my partner?

You and SVS have equity, I don't think I've seen anything immediate that excludes Seanzie, Cat, or MR.

Hmmm real weird when someone has half a cast they could be w/w with.

[DrWilgy]

And just like that DrWilgy goes away from a real time convo with me.

Chicken lol

Some of us have better things to do than entertain you Guillo.

[DrWilgy]

This is my current developed reads.

Michelle and Guillotine as Town. (I've already said my reasons for both. Despite their going hard on each other, I don't feel like there is a wolf in there)

Town lean on Seanzie and Falcon. (I do wish Seanzie and Falcon would post more so I could get a better idea, but their first impression on both are pretty town)

Wolf lean on Wilgy. (I have been kind of lightly town and wolf reading this all day. I know they are a strong wolf player so I'm hesitant to write off their activity as Townie. They haven't felt too gamesolvey so far though and mostly just seem to be existing and giving their opinions. A town thing to do for sure, but none of them have felt the same kind of energy or depth I am getting form Falcon, Guillotine, or Michelle)

Main wolf suspect S~V~S (though I'm mostly waiting on their response to my initial accusation)

Obviously MR and Epignosis would need to post more than an introduction to be read.

How do we have a tl on the not present Seanzie?

Is your read on me misinformed per the last post, fear (tin foil) or nota? what is the depth difference specifically between me and the three you've shared?

[Guillotine]

Alright and so do I? Very much a time where I'd chain games putting a 3rd vote down just to see how'd people interact around it.

Further, if it's NAI why is he discounted in the read? Where has your read on where's it's specifically wolfy for either me or Michelle to have been the 2nd and 3rd vote?

I never said im scum reading for being the 2nd or the 3rd.
This is why i think you are more likely to be scum than Michelle, because Michelle has read my content, she knows why she is being scum read. You on the other are still pretending not to know when ive been clear why i think you are scum if Michelle is not, you are still playing dumb and it infuriates to the point i wanna kill you with my own hands tonight, except i cant kill.

Maybe, JUST maybe, you aren't being clear? is that somehow within the realm of possibility to you?

No, i have been clear

clearly wolfy

Ok sure.

Say im mafia, who is my partner?

You and SVS have equity, I don't think I've seen anything immediate that excludes Seanzie, Cat, or MR.

Hmmm real weird when someone has half a cast they could be w/w with.

Who is MR?

[Guillotine]

And just like that DrWilgy goes away from a real time convo with me.

Chicken lol

Some of us have better things to do than entertain you Guillo.

More than resolving your alleged pair of Guillo/SvS? Tsk tsk tsk

[DrWilgy]

I sense a moment of panic here.

The tactic is to try to clear a teammate on the back of someone else's lynch. If Guillotine (who has the most votes) is a civilian, then obviously Michelle couldn't be "bussing" him.

More importantly, I don't see S~V~S trying to understand DrWilgy's other colors. No questions about me (I certainly have done nothing to warrant being green) or anybody else. This means that S~V~S isn't trying to understand DrWilgy, which means S~V~S already knows DrWilgy is not mafia.

I don't think this perspective observation (correct or not) comes from W Epi.

[DrWilgy]

I never said im scum reading for being the 2nd or the 3rd.
This is why i think you are more likely to be scum than Michelle, because Michelle has read my content, she knows why she is being scum read. You on the other are still pretending not to know when ive been clear why i think you are scum if Michelle is not, you are still playing dumb and it infuriates to the point i wanna kill you with my own hands tonight, except i cant kill.

Maybe, JUST maybe, you aren't being clear? is that somehow within the realm of possibility to you?

No, i have been clear

clearly wolfy

Ok sure.

Say im mafia, who is my partner?

You and SVS have equity, I don't think I've seen anything immediate that excludes Seanzie, Cat, or MR.

Hmmm real weird when someone has half a cast they could be w/w with.

Who is MR?

rasdishman

[DrWilgy]

And just like that DrWilgy goes away from a real time convo with me.

Chicken lol

Some of us have better things to do than entertain you Guillo.

More than resolving your alleged pair of Guillo/SvS? Tsk tsk tsk

yeah, I'd say reading two pages of a 7 page game and actually parsing the data there is somewhat important. Then I get to go back to work.

If info within those pages changes the Guillo/SvS pairing fine, but otherwise we sleepy boi hours.

[Guillotine]

And just like that DrWilgy goes away from a real time convo with me.

Chicken lol

Some of us have better things to do than entertain you Guillo.

More than resolving your alleged pair of Guillo/SvS? Tsk tsk tsk

yeah, I'd say reading two pages of a 7 page game and actually parsing the data there is somewhat important. Then I get to go back to work.

If info within those pages changes the Guillo/SvS pairing fine, but otherwise we sleepy boi hours.

Ok, i think SvS is paired with you, you think SvS is paired with me, wouldnt make more sense to just kill the common factor here but instead you choose to counterwagon me?

[Guillotine]

If you think im bussing SvS then come and help me townside and then execute me next?

[Guillotine]

Plus i know for a fact im not gonna be eliminated so, you may as well just vote your other scum read.

[DrWilgy]

The solve here for scum is Wilgy/SVS

what wild world is this one actually real and not just wolfy bait? You even bother to see interactions between SvS and I before posting this?

[DrWilgy]

What's my alignment, Guillotine?

Town

why tho

[DrWilgy]

This was the pocket attempt from Guillo

Now will you stop tunneling back and help catch wolves or what Michelle.

I still believe Wilgy is scum, he flip flops a lot on me.

And the reads list as well

Town

Michelle

Null

Seanzie
Cat

Scum

DrWilgy
SvS


Spicy read

LinearPoint could be whiteknighting me.

I said no

Guillo, I don't SR Wigly


And I don't trust your test, so my vote stays

He restarted the tunnel

What if Michelle is scum with SvS though.

Michelle, did you react to the bussing accusation from SvS?

There's no need to react at that, did you react at her suspecting you?


The above posts came pretty fast one after the other and how Guillo puts only me as TR and only for meta reasons shows agenda fmpov

What he said, that he misread me only in the hydra with Wisdom P#188 (i don't have a hydra with Wisdom, btw) is wrong. This year MU Anni is just a proof he lies.

.

Talking about post 188 don't call me sweety if you want to remain friends @Guillotine

Why cant i be town he does not remember anni?

You can be a townie forgetting a bad game, sure, I forget myself almost all games lately, but then you shouldn't be sure you never misread me.

Looking at this game, I think my 3 am brain explained well enough why I see you as mafia.

If I am wrong about you, we still have a lot of time to figure out things before Eod and I will be here because I will wake up earlier tomorrow morning.

So we have a double chance at interactions. Talk to me about everyone, I already did it, but I don't remember it from you

@Guillotine

In my opinion this is the PoE that wins the game

Wilgy
SvS
Seanzie (if he completely does not post today).

If Wilgy is town then my advice is to flip you, i e never seen you wall post as scum so im townreading that even though the content is uncharitable from you and completely wrong, but if Wilgy flips town you are scum and gteat try!

If you also flip town then this is where i'd have to reevaluate.

My top top town right now is Linear
Followed by Epignosis
Then you, but yours is conditional.

So I'm reading this like: (Seanzie, Wilgy, Michelle)/(SVS, Seanzie)

Do Michelle OR I echo teammate Seanzie at the opening of the gate?

[DrWilgy]

And just like that DrWilgy goes away from a real time convo with me.

Chicken lol

Some of us have better things to do than entertain you Guillo.

More than resolving your alleged pair of Guillo/SvS? Tsk tsk tsk

yeah, I'd say reading two pages of a 7 page game and actually parsing the data there is somewhat important. Then I get to go back to work.

If info within those pages changes the Guillo/SvS pairing fine, but otherwise we sleepy boi hours.

Ok, i think SvS is paired with you, you think SvS is paired with me, wouldnt make more sense to just kill the common factor here but instead you choose to counterwagon me?

Yeah probably, but the issue is that alot of the interaction that makes SvS paired with you comes from you and not SvS. You in isolation CAN be on a team with SvS and are wolfy. SvS in isolation doesn't draw any immediate teammate connotation and is wolfy. Makes me want to solve the source of the teammate pairings first, which I think is just kinda natural.

[DrWilgy]

If you think im bussing SvS then come and help me townside and then execute me next?

If the need arises, sure.

[DrWilgy]

Plus i know for a fact im not gonna be eliminated so, you may as well just vote your other scum read.

Cute

[DrWilgy]

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To reiterate SVS seems awkward and is fighting a pointless battle. Who cares if Michelle is agressive or not if you yourself think Michelle is null for it. Just drop the subject.
But it's also not necesarily damning.

is SVS awkward and fighting a pointless battle not alignment indicative? Would you not expect a different focus from T SvS assuming you think they are currently not?

[DrWilgy]

Michelle posts actually seems more like baiting discussion than actually slipping something, she came back from work, started talking to people and trying to rile them up, unlike Guillotina who did nothing to start and start flailing when they get called out... I don't know the attentiveness of th people here but i'm pretty sure directly talking to people is more likely to create actual discussion then ignoring them. I won't give pointers since im a reactionary player myself but if you want to get people to talk about you it's much better to do something else than make the entire thread suspect you by saying something bland or generic

What is your take away from this Cat? This feels like there should be a conclusion following this but there isn't.

[S~V~S]

And just like that DrWilgy goes away from a real time convo with me.

Chicken lol

Some of us have better things to do than entertain you Guillo.

More than resolving your alleged pair of Guillo/SvS? Tsk tsk tsk

yeah, I'd say reading two pages of a 7 page game and actually parsing the data there is somewhat important. Then I get to go back to work.

If info within those pages changes the Guillo/SvS pairing fine, but otherwise we sleepy boi hours.

Ok, i think SvS is paired with you, you think SvS is paired with me, wouldnt make more sense to just kill the common factor here but instead you choose to counterwagon me?

I’m not paired with either one of you, but based on this discussion Guillo looks worse than Wilgy to me.

Wilgy is making sense from a Wilgy world perdoective, whereas Guillo just wants to yeet”not himself”.

At this point I’m mainly a distraction, and town may learn most from yeeting me.

From reading back to Michelle’s reaction to Epis case, I had the thought that a yeet of me might be used by Michelle and:or Epi to clear her.

Because his whole case feels made up to me, from my perspective as town. So I might reverse the town reads I had on Michelle and the thought that his case made him town, too, cause I didn’t see it as something bad Epi would do. But Michelle’s reaction to it, I dunno.

[DrWilgy]

I am kinda astounded that this is the most suspicious thing people are finding. That I made a word choice that was perhaps not the best word choice, and I'm getting raked over the coals for it now. the fact that you think I would faux banter or set up faux suspish with a teammate tells me you don't understand my game at all.

we have several low posters, is it actually that astounding? by the nature of the players who are present mid-high posting, everyone will find things to see as towny (correct or not).

[falcon45ca]

Game ends in 14 hours, if in 4 hours momentum has not changed, i will have no choice but to claim.

Dude, you just did.





I don't understand this at all if you're town, what's the point?

[falcon45ca]

Guillo's prolly town, he's swinging at anything he finds sus

Are we playing different games? Guillo's openly advised they are tunneling and they've been hyper fixated upon me/michelle while at the same time svs is scum but didn't say anything about that one?

Some of this just aligns w/ how I've come to expect T Guillo to play, he tunnels all the time, but his soft claim is sus AF IMO






What's your take on his claim?

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: Guillo] aubergine

[falcon45ca]

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To me reading Michelle posts actually seems more like baiting discussion than actually slipping something, she came back from work, started talking to people and trying to rile them up, unlike Guillotina who did nothing to start and start flailing when they get called out... I don't know the attentiveness of th people here but i'm pretty sure directly talking to people is more likely to create actual discussion then ignoring them. I won't give pointers since im a reactionary player myself but if you want to get people to talk about you it's much better to do something else than make the entire thread suspect you by saying something bland or generic

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To reiterate SVS seems awkward and is fighting a pointless battle. Who cares if Michelle is agressive or not if you yourself think Michelle is null for it. Just drop the subject.
But it's also not necesarily damning.

Why does it feel like you're content sitting on the sidelines, w/ commentary, but no real reads that I can see?

[DrWilgy]

Guillo's prolly town, he's swinging at anything he finds sus

Are we playing different games? Guillo's openly advised they are tunneling and they've been hyper fixated upon me/michelle while at the same time svs is scum but didn't say anything about that one?

Some of this just aligns w/ how I've come to expect T Guillo to play, he tunnels all the time, but his soft claim is sus AF IMO






What's your take on his claim?

a pr knowing that they can negate the one tool town has going for them is not town sided. NAI at best, W at worst.

[DrWilgy]

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To me reading Michelle posts actually seems more like baiting discussion than actually slipping something, she came back from work, started talking to people and trying to rile them up, unlike Guillotina who did nothing to start and start flailing when they get called out... I don't know the attentiveness of th people here but i'm pretty sure directly talking to people is more likely to create actual discussion then ignoring them. I won't give pointers since im a reactionary player myself but if you want to get people to talk about you it's much better to do something else than make the entire thread suspect you by saying something bland or generic

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To reiterate SVS seems awkward and is fighting a pointless battle. Who cares if Michelle is agressive or not if you yourself think Michelle is null for it. Just drop the subject.
But it's also not necesarily damning.

Why does it feel like you're content sitting on the sidelines, w/ commentary, but no real reads that I can see?

This was the same feel I had. Feels like there should be some sort of conclusion that's just missing.

Kinda 'ew'-ed at it when I read it initially.

[S~V~S]

I am kinda astounded that this is the most suspicious thing people are finding. That I made a word choice that was perhaps not the best word choice, and I'm getting raked over the coals for it now. the fact that you think I would faux banter or set up faux suspish with a teammate tells me you don't understand my game at all.

we have several low posters, is it actually that astounding? by the nature of the players who are present mid-high posting, everyone will find things to see as towny (correct or not).

This is cut from my reply to Epi right?

I don’t think it’s surprising for many of the people playing this game; I think it’s surprising from Epi.

[DrWilgy]

I am kinda astounded that this is the most suspicious thing people are finding. That I made a word choice that was perhaps not the best word choice, and I'm getting raked over the coals for it now. the fact that you think I would faux banter or set up faux suspish with a teammate tells me you don't understand my game at all.

we have several low posters, is it actually that astounding? by the nature of the players who are present mid-high posting, everyone will find things to see as towny (correct or not).

This is cut from my reply to Epi right?

I don’t think it’s surprising for many of the people playing this game; I think it’s surprising from Epi.

I thought 'people are finding' people being a keyword opened the thought process up to the consensus.

[S~V~S]

@DrWilgy Like LP said some similar things, and I get it I take sus from people who don’t know me often. I don’t question their take on me. My town game tends to be chaotic and many/most read that as wolfy.

This is why I’m waffling on Epi. I can’t imagine him making this case Day One as a baddie. But I’m having troubles seeing him make it as town either.

from a town perspective, taking me out of discussion wouldn’t be the worst thing. I’ll just be a distraction going forward. I’m kinda OMGUSsed right now and don’t know how useful I’ll be anyhow.

Linki, oh sure anyone can comment on snything. But that specific remark was mostly aimed at Epi. That post seemed like more nitpicking than I expect from Day One Epi.

[LinearPoint]

I am not liking what I am reading from S~V~S so far.

This post is basically just meaningless fluff that doesn't even realistically contribute to anything.

Spoiler: show

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

100% Meaningless fluff. Like almost 100% of the game posts made before it.


Pair that last post with this one and I think there is a solid argument that S~V~S is trying to comment on the setup while sidestepping other topics. This is doubly so since by the point of this second post the Guillotine and Michelle situation was starting to develop.

Spoiler: show

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

What other topics? At this stage, I don't recall there being any other topics. She asked a question (I assume) to start discussion, I answered it for samesies.

Then I found this post to also ping me a bit. I find it weird they drop the Guillotine suspicious read in there, but were not one of the people voting on Guillotine. Then they also drop a good read on MIchelle while (in my opinion) also shading them as potentially bussing Guillotine. Which I do think it is also just odd to bring up bussing this early into the game.

Spoiler: show

LP
Seanzie
Cat
Epi
SVS
MR
Michelle
Guillo

I get why Guillo, but why Michelle? I don’t associate snap votes with bad Michelle, do you think she’s bussing him?

I got why Guillo, becasue three people in a row voted for him for his boredom remark. Epi also found my commenting on only the bottom of the list sus. I understand it more from you; we've never played together. I'm not overly concerned with other peoples town reads, but I want to understand why they suspect someone. Especially someone like Wilgy, whose thought process is so so different than mine. What they are seeing that I am not. This is how town works together.


This last one is probably just me being paranoid, but these few posts are reading to me as a wolf who is trying to go with the nice guy approach and trying to talk people down by being overly non-agressive.

Spoiler: show

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Did I put enough question marks in this ^^? Maybe I need a few more?

@DrWilgy mathematical balance is not my strong suit; I was working on the premise that he wouldn’t have more wolves than in a game with more players than this. Hopefully he chooses to tell us, but if not, not.

@falcon45ca nah

You’re reading too much into one word. I’ve noticed you tend to do this with me.

Do you think Michelle is town?

[VOTE: S~V~S] aubergine

I used to be fairly aggro myself when town, and when I was getting NKed night one all the time, I dirtied up my town game a bit (which is easier imo than trying to play a more aggro game when wolf), so i always try to be non aggressive when possible. Also as a site mod, it's a good practice to try not to be the person other people complain about. So I try to pull back for that reason, too. I am already kinda regretting calling Epis post "absurd" for instance. It's not a good look to talk about peoples thoughts that way.

Again, I think all of this is silly, suspecting me for using the work aggro when other people did not find that post aggro. Becasue that is what ALL of this boils down to.

When I looked in yesterday, I saw that Guillo had voted for me, then I saw he moved away iirc, now I see hes back. This was the behavior I recall from him in the game I modded where he was bad, he bounced around alot, didn't stick to suspicions in order to avoid aggravating anyone. It was good baddie play. Not sure if he's doing that here in general, or just did it with me, I've only had time this AM to address suspicions on me. I have the day from hell at work today with a meeting I'm not looking forward to, but hope to read back. In any case should have several hours after work. He's my main opposing wagon, but I won't vote for him unless i actually find him suspect.

I am actually OK being yeeted if it comes down to that, y'all will get some info from that.

You are probably not going to like this response since I'm not changing my read on you, but I feel as though you are constructing a sort of strawman defense in both this response post and the previous one to Epignosis.

I didn't bring up this aggro argument that falcon was using to sus you. The fact that you made that the crutch of your defense that "this is silly, suspecting me for using the word aggro" was mine or Epignosis main argument is not accurate in the slightest. I don't even really get the impression that was Epignosis's main argument either. I think I made it quite clear that my main point of concern was that you participating without really doing much with said participation. To be honest fluff was probably the wrong word choice for my thoughts there, it was more that you commented on things, but weren't pushing the discussion forward with the commentary.

That being said I don't think the rest of your responses individually were all that bad. It's just your overfixation on the aggro argument from falcon, acting like it's the main argument, seems to be a distraction to say you successfully defended yourself when that isn't the main point here. I also would like to hear your opinion on more people because at the moment I only have your reads on Michelle, Guillotine, and that's pretty much it. There is a lot of potential associations going towards you, but you don't seem to be doing much to associate with others.

In general I would like to see you take up a less defensive stance and be actively engaged, so far most of what I'm seeing in your ISO are passive comments or defensive deflection. I think the most you've realistically done to advance the gamestate is your comments on Guillotine and Michelle (who were more or less already the main points of discussion anyways). I'd like to hear more about what you think of Falcon, Epignosis, and I for pushing you. What you think of Wilgy since they've been activly talking about Guillotine and MIchelee. Cat also has probably something you can get a read on surely.

[LinearPoint]

@Guillotine Are you currently scum reading Wilgy? I was mostly curious since Wilgy also had voted with Seanize at the same time Michelle was doing and I recall you mentioning that Wilgy was flip-floppy with their reading of you.

I'm thinking Wilgy looks a bit worse than Michelle in this situation. Mostly due to the fact Wilgy is more or less letting you just go at Michelle here when the same argument you are presenting also applies to Wilgy. There was also the point that Wilgy agreed with me on Town reading Michelle, whom I jotted down that Wilgy was scum reading early. And despite as of post #149 Wilgy moving over to Town reading Michelle, they have seemed content to allow you to just go after her freely, unquestioned.

What do you mean by this? Why would I interject for Michelle rather than try to solve between Guillo/Michelle as I observe their interactions. While I do think it's likely Michelle saw the same 'poopoo on the thread' that resulted in the vote that I did, I gave reasoning for it (at michelle's request) to which Michelle was in agreement with. I wouldn't be able to parse weather or not Michelle just took the reason I gave as their own in mimicry or not.

I feel as if you didn't read why I had Michelle in the read before posting this. I'd advise looking at that again. Michelle's equity, even early, was always in direct contrast to Guillo, the better I feel about Guillo the worse I feel about Michelle and the inverse. Both of them had reasons to be red in my first rainbow.

I asked Wilgy the question earlier about what they would read me and Falcon as if both SVS and you were Town. They were adamant that falcon would always be Town, even if it turns out they are currently leading a mischop, but were not willing to say I was Mafia or Town either way in that same scenario.


To me with what you were saying about Wilgy earlier and their answer to my question I think they might be scum hedging their bets a bit and trying not to get too in the way of anyone spearheading a vote.

Yes, because Falcon has extensive meta to reflect that their posting is town. It has nothing to do with any equity towards or against other players. I do not have that same read for you.

Outside of Michelle, do you have any other instances where I'm hedging as opposed to solving? I think 112 put it well in your recent game, 'is me hedging scum indicative? OR is it me parsing the data and moving reads around?'

Trying to deflect and say I did not read your posts is not going to do a whole lot to convince me. I've read through your posts and the game significantly more than you have if I were a betting man.

I know full well you do not think they are a scum pair, that was pretty obvious by your firsts reads list. The point was that you were, up to the point I made your quoted post, a fairly active person in the discussion. So you to suddenly drop a response to my town read of Michelle with an affirmation that you agreed, then proceeded to step aside and not comment further on Guillotine or Michelle when Guillotine was laying out their case for Michelle is very odd to me. I would expect for someone who had a strong wolf read on Guillotine and a (at least) a town lean on Michelle to comment on the ongoing case that their scum read was making on a town read of there's.

The fact that you said you were trying to avoid talking about it looks even worse for you in my eyes. For Wolf!Wilgy this is just a win/win/win. You get a free mislynch on Michelle and you can pawn it off on Guillotine because you were already scum reading them and all you had to do was put no effort into defending your town read while you main scum read pushes.

[DrWilgy]

@Guillotine Are you currently scum reading Wilgy? I was mostly curious since Wilgy also had voted with Seanize at the same time Michelle was doing and I recall you mentioning that Wilgy was flip-floppy with their reading of you.

I'm thinking Wilgy looks a bit worse than Michelle in this situation. Mostly due to the fact Wilgy is more or less letting you just go at Michelle here when the same argument you are presenting also applies to Wilgy. There was also the point that Wilgy agreed with me on Town reading Michelle, whom I jotted down that Wilgy was scum reading early. And despite as of post #149 Wilgy moving over to Town reading Michelle, they have seemed content to allow you to just go after her freely, unquestioned.

What do you mean by this? Why would I interject for Michelle rather than try to solve between Guillo/Michelle as I observe their interactions. While I do think it's likely Michelle saw the same 'poopoo on the thread' that resulted in the vote that I did, I gave reasoning for it (at michelle's request) to which Michelle was in agreement with. I wouldn't be able to parse weather or not Michelle just took the reason I gave as their own in mimicry or not.

I feel as if you didn't read why I had Michelle in the read before posting this. I'd advise looking at that again. Michelle's equity, even early, was always in direct contrast to Guillo, the better I feel about Guillo the worse I feel about Michelle and the inverse. Both of them had reasons to be red in my first rainbow.

I asked Wilgy the question earlier about what they would read me and Falcon as if both SVS and you were Town. They were adamant that falcon would always be Town, even if it turns out they are currently leading a mischop, but were not willing to say I was Mafia or Town either way in that same scenario.


To me with what you were saying about Wilgy earlier and their answer to my question I think they might be scum hedging their bets a bit and trying not to get too in the way of anyone spearheading a vote.

Yes, because Falcon has extensive meta to reflect that their posting is town. It has nothing to do with any equity towards or against other players. I do not have that same read for you.

Outside of Michelle, do you have any other instances where I'm hedging as opposed to solving? I think 112 put it well in your recent game, 'is me hedging scum indicative? OR is it me parsing the data and moving reads around?'

Trying to deflect and say I did not read your posts is not going to do a whole lot to convince me. I've read through your posts and the game significantly more than you have if I were a betting man.

I know full well you do not think they are a scum pair, that was pretty obvious by your firsts reads list. The point was that you were, up to the point I made your quoted post, a fairly active person in the discussion. So you to suddenly drop a response to my town read of Michelle with an affirmation that you agreed, then proceeded to step aside and not comment further on Guillotine or Michelle when Guillotine was laying out their case for Michelle is very odd to me. I would expect for someone who had a strong wolf read on Guillotine and a (at least) a town lean on Michelle to comment on the ongoing case that their scum read was making on a town read of there's.

The fact that you said you were trying to avoid talking about it looks even worse for you in my eyes. For Wolf!Wilgy this is just a win/win/win. You get a free mislynch on Michelle and you can pawn it off on Guillotine because you were already scum reading them and all you had to do was put no effort into defending your town read while you main scum read pushes.

Advising how I feel on a subject is not deflecting. I did not say you did not read it, I said how it made me feel about it. The advisement comes regardless of if you did or not. It is not a competition of who read more you silly chameleon.

I had to get back to work and returned to the thread when I could. I'd glance at it on my phone, but without the ability to invest time into it I felt no need to comment. I could barely absorb the information from Guillo's and Michelle's big posts (something I'm just kinda bad at in general). I have also commented on it upon returning. Still very much feels in the realm of forced narrative from Guillo.

There's a big difference between 'I'm trying to avoid talking about it' and 'I'm not going to interject.' I've spoken about it. I think out of Michelle/Guillo at this point, there's likely a W guillo but not Michelle. Again, Guillo feels like they've been forcing a narrative that isn't accurate.

I also wasn't aware that you were referring to specifically when I had to step away. Seems kinda shifty to sr someone for that. Like I was just working.

[Master Radishes]

It seems people are quite confident in their solves so I'll happily assume town is crushing this and let myself be carried to a win.

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy Like LP said some similar things, and I get it I take sus from people who don’t know me often. I don’t question their take on me. My town game tends to be chaotic and many/most read that as wolfy.

This is why I’m waffling on Epi. I can’t imagine him making this case Day One as a baddie. But I’m having troubles seeing him make it as town either.

from a town perspective, taking me out of discussion wouldn’t be the worst thing. I’ll just be a distraction going forward. I’m kinda OMGUSsed right now and don’t know how useful I’ll be anyhow.

Linki, oh sure anyone can comment on snything. But that specific remark was mostly aimed at Epi. That post seemed like more nitpicking than I expect from Day One Epi.

I see it very strictly from a town perspective from Epi fwiw.

I keep reading over your response to Epi's case on you, the only argument that stands out to me you made towards Epi that'd imply 'having troubles seeing him make it as town' is this one here:

Panic? I was asking him to expand on his reads. Which is what people do. This whole post so far feels like youre reading into what I'm saying *trying* to find a reason to suspect me.

Asking a person to explain their reads is EXACTLY trying to understand his colors, and I had no questions about the rest of the list. I think I have a fairly good feel for Wilgy most of the time, but i've been spectacularly wrong (see: Meta) so sorting Wilgy is important to me. Besides, as an old school player, you know I'm more interested in peoples baddie reads than their town reads.

This post is such a stretch, especially from you, that I'm fairly sure you're town, too. Because, like me, I don't see you making up something like this Day One.

Can you elaborate on why you struggle to see both W and T Epi making the case on you?

[DrWilgy]

It seems people are quite confident in their solves so I'll happily assume town is crushing this and let myself be carried to a win.

NO! Get your ass back here Radishman!

[LinearPoint]

@Guillotine Are you currently scum reading Wilgy? I was mostly curious since Wilgy also had voted with Seanize at the same time Michelle was doing and I recall you mentioning that Wilgy was flip-floppy with their reading of you.

I'm thinking Wilgy looks a bit worse than Michelle in this situation. Mostly due to the fact Wilgy is more or less letting you just go at Michelle here when the same argument you are presenting also applies to Wilgy. There was also the point that Wilgy agreed with me on Town reading Michelle, whom I jotted down that Wilgy was scum reading early. And despite as of post #149 Wilgy moving over to Town reading Michelle, they have seemed content to allow you to just go after her freely, unquestioned.

What do you mean by this? Why would I interject for Michelle rather than try to solve between Guillo/Michelle as I observe their interactions. While I do think it's likely Michelle saw the same 'poopoo on the thread' that resulted in the vote that I did, I gave reasoning for it (at michelle's request) to which Michelle was in agreement with. I wouldn't be able to parse weather or not Michelle just took the reason I gave as their own in mimicry or not.

I feel as if you didn't read why I had Michelle in the read before posting this. I'd advise looking at that again. Michelle's equity, even early, was always in direct contrast to Guillo, the better I feel about Guillo the worse I feel about Michelle and the inverse. Both of them had reasons to be red in my first rainbow.

I asked Wilgy the question earlier about what they would read me and Falcon as if both SVS and you were Town. They were adamant that falcon would always be Town, even if it turns out they are currently leading a mischop, but were not willing to say I was Mafia or Town either way in that same scenario.


To me with what you were saying about Wilgy earlier and their answer to my question I think they might be scum hedging their bets a bit and trying not to get too in the way of anyone spearheading a vote.

Yes, because Falcon has extensive meta to reflect that their posting is town. It has nothing to do with any equity towards or against other players. I do not have that same read for you.

Outside of Michelle, do you have any other instances where I'm hedging as opposed to solving? I think 112 put it well in your recent game, 'is me hedging scum indicative? OR is it me parsing the data and moving reads around?'

Trying to deflect and say I did not read your posts is not going to do a whole lot to convince me. I've read through your posts and the game significantly more than you have if I were a betting man.

I know full well you do not think they are a scum pair, that was pretty obvious by your firsts reads list. The point was that you were, up to the point I made your quoted post, a fairly active person in the discussion. So you to suddenly drop a response to my town read of Michelle with an affirmation that you agreed, then proceeded to step aside and not comment further on Guillotine or Michelle when Guillotine was laying out their case for Michelle is very odd to me. I would expect for someone who had a strong wolf read on Guillotine and a (at least) a town lean on Michelle to comment on the ongoing case that their scum read was making on a town read of there's.

The fact that you said you were trying to avoid talking about it looks even worse for you in my eyes. For Wolf!Wilgy this is just a win/win/win. You get a free mislynch on Michelle and you can pawn it off on Guillotine because you were already scum reading them and all you had to do was put no effort into defending your town read while you main scum read pushes.

Advising how I feel on a subject is not deflecting. I did not say you did not read it, I said how it made me feel about it. The advisement comes regardless of if you did or not. It is not a competition of who read more you silly chameleon.

I had to get back to work and returned to the thread when I could. I'd glance at it on my phone, but without the ability to invest time into it I felt no need to comment. I could barely absorb the information from Guillo's and Michelle's big posts (something I'm just kinda bad at in general). I have also commented on it upon returning. Still very much feels in the realm of forced narrative from Guillo.

There's a big difference between 'I'm trying to avoid talking about it' and 'I'm not going to interject.' I've spoken about it. I think out of Michelle/Guillo at this point, there's likely a W guillo but not Michelle. Again, Guillo feels like they've been forcing a narrative that isn't accurate.

I also wasn't aware that you were referring to specifically when I had to step away. Seems kinda shifty to sr someone for that. Like I was just working.

My post was delayed quite a bit since I originally made the mental observation. You were active at the point I first suspected you were avoiding them. I was originally trying to hold off on making the read because I wanted falcon to answer the question (they never did). It was not my intent to ambush you when you were offline, but that ended up being the point at which falcon got back and decided to sidestep my question a second time and Guilliotine finally made their massive wall on Michelle.

Also I do not recall seeing you actually talk about Guillotine's push on Michelle after the fact, nor am I seeing it while double checking your ISO. The best I saw was you said that Guilliotine was volume spewing as a caught wolf which speaks nothing to the validity of Guilliotine's push on Michelle.

[Master Radishes]

It seems people are quite confident in their solves so I'll happily assume town is crushing this and let myself be carried to a win.

NO! Get your ass back here Radishman!

Radishes barely have asses

[cat]

Michelle posts actually seems more like baiting discussion than actually slipping something, she came back from work, started talking to people and trying to rile them up, unlike Guillotina who did nothing to start and start flailing when they get called out... I don't know the attentiveness of th people here but i'm pretty sure directly talking to people is more likely to create actual discussion then ignoring them. I won't give pointers since im a reactionary player myself but if you want to get people to talk about you it's much better to do something else than make the entire thread suspect you by saying something bland or generic

What is your take away from this Cat? This feels like there should be a conclusion following this but there isn't.

Should be pretty self-explanatory. Michelle is a villager, Gullotine is a wolf, SVS is null. The rest i don't have much opinion on. Nor a lot of time to dissect either. I'll just see where the wind takes me.

[DrWilgy]

OK, I did a quick skim of Guillos last dozen or so posts, and he doesn't seem particularly bad to me. I am not agreeing with what he's saying (obvs) but he's saying it in an open way.

I see Wilgy voted for him, and Wilgy has recent bad Guillo experience, so i want to see his opinion there, so I'll try to read back on them at work today. hasta la vista folks.

I mean the early Guillo vote was just that, an early Guillo vote. As it stands, they are in the realm of light sr to null. They continue to insist on silly worlds, I think I saw Wilgy/SVS as their proposed solve and they insist on "well there's one in Wilgy/Michelle and it's not Michelle" which feels like a forced perspective. I do think Epi's observations on how Guillo has postured you on fallback, scummy but always fallback, is Wolfy from Guillo and a good observation by Epi.

I've kinda touched on meta already,

Guillo is good at what I'd describe as "forced town perspective" and trying to be volume spewed. Their play this game feels very reminiscent of interactions I read between W Guillo and T Seanzie in the fame you referenced. While it's not something I'd say I'm confident of, it is something that scratches at my skull.

@LinearPoint I suppose you are correct. I thought this was valid in voicing the concern I had with Guillo's casing, but I was incorrect as I should've elaborated more.

#214 part 1 reflects on Guillo saying Michelle had the same reaction and the progression doesn't make sense from that perspective.

I think this is gross, Michelle joined thread seeing the gamestate was dead and then decided to do something about it. Went into discussing mechanics, sheeped a vote, etc. The progression in RVS makes sense and to scum read for that progression feels wrong to me.

Feels like an AHA! YOU TOOK THE BAIT, when taking the bait was actually completely NAI.

#215 is kinda shitty as it just kinda shames Michelle for trying to solve during RVS or at least push us through it. Even in meta, michelle finds that it's easier to tr players with a more jovial attitude, so why wouldn't Michelle use that to solve during rvs against fluff?

#216 Saying that Michelle is attempting to fake a derp? You would be well aware that's within my own MO, so I can kinda see it existing, BUT I have no way of knowing if Michelle would do that. Further Michelle discussing mech brought us out of RVS and was net positive for town.

#217 actually has a perceivable truth in it. I did think that Michelle's earlier posts reflected a W perspective and I can find parts to agree with in this one.

#220 is kinda gross. I get finding assoc's pre flip. Figuring out who's not W/W in order to accelerate the reduction of PoE makes sense. pre flip like it was done in isolation, does nothing but push the person of interest and reinforce a story that you shouldn't know as correct. IF #220 wasn't just a post to push the narrative, I'd expect more full preflip analysis from Guillo on everyone, especially when they are 'bored because the thread is dead.'

Does this iterate why I feel that Guillo's read on Michelle comes across as a false narrative?

[DrWilgy]

Now, if anyone needs me, allow me to say I'm leaving the thread to go to the doctor's office, as apparently that is needed

[cat]

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To me reading Michelle posts actually seems more like baiting discussion than actually slipping something, she came back from work, started talking to people and trying to rile them up, unlike Guillotina who did nothing to start and start flailing when they get called out... I don't know the attentiveness of th people here but i'm pretty sure directly talking to people is more likely to create actual discussion then ignoring them. I won't give pointers since im a reactionary player myself but if you want to get people to talk about you it's much better to do something else than make the entire thread suspect you by saying something bland or generic

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To reiterate SVS seems awkward and is fighting a pointless battle. Who cares if Michelle is agressive or not if you yourself think Michelle is null for it. Just drop the subject.
But it's also not necesarily damning.

Why does it feel like you're content sitting on the sidelines, w/ commentary, but no real reads that I can see?

It's because i only have like 7 posts and all of them is me talking about the same 3 players. Sorry for the lack of content im aware i'm not being much of a help yet. Currently traveling but i'll be back on Sunday. Remember games being hella slow in here so colour me surprised when i see over 100 posts at once.

[DrWilgy]

(also that was me being sassy, nothing more. You are all a delight.)

[Michelle]

Reading Epi's case I agreed with it regarding SVS but honestly the idea he thinks I am paired with her made me laugh.

So I use ^^ instead big green to not search for it and this is a habit I have since I talked daily with my honies about what the next Naruto chapter will be about, and also I know the words of many emojis because searching them is a pain on phone, and someone else abuse the ^^ sign and tadaaa! we are partners?

No sir, we are not partners, except she is town, wiich I doubt.

Which parts did you agree with?

I forgot because a whole work day passed since but I remember I nodded reading it

Also @Michelle why specifically do you doubt I’m town?

Other than Epis case?

How does this compare to other games where you’ve seen me wolf?

The aggro think was forced imo. My intention was not to be aggro, my tone is/was obviously jokey and also you assumed I alluded at you when I couldn't read your post as phone poster.

Usually after posting I scrolled up until my previous post but this game I used the arrow from the quote to go to the post I answered at, to keep the things in order (that other habit requires an attention span I don't have these days because I was sick one full week and I am still not feeling well), I am also not home yet to start to dig the order of posts now, but if needed I will do it.

Like I already said I have poor memory of your meta and I don't remember much from past games. Also for me meta is the last I check when I make a read, because good players can fake it. And you are a good player.

I as town read from you Guillo, like earlier, is conditioned by meta

Meta is no more than a crutch, not a meaning to make a read, because people can break it on purpose, if you look at it from distance.

This is not true for you by the ay, you are very polarized. So until i see that you are no longer polarized then i will not stop treating you like a polarized player, it is that simple.

ok bummer

ttyl i have to go home from work... finally!

[cat]

It seems people are quite confident in their solves so I'll happily assume town is crushing this and let myself be carried to a win.

What makes you say that?

[LinearPoint]

OK, I did a quick skim of Guillos last dozen or so posts, and he doesn't seem particularly bad to me. I am not agreeing with what he's saying (obvs) but he's saying it in an open way.

I see Wilgy voted for him, and Wilgy has recent bad Guillo experience, so i want to see his opinion there, so I'll try to read back on them at work today. hasta la vista folks.

I mean the early Guillo vote was just that, an early Guillo vote. As it stands, they are in the realm of light sr to null. They continue to insist on silly worlds, I think I saw Wilgy/SVS as their proposed solve and they insist on "well there's one in Wilgy/Michelle and it's not Michelle" which feels like a forced perspective. I do think Epi's observations on how Guillo has postured you on fallback, scummy but always fallback, is Wolfy from Guillo and a good observation by Epi.

I've kinda touched on meta already,

Guillo is good at what I'd describe as "forced town perspective" and trying to be volume spewed. Their play this game feels very reminiscent of interactions I read between W Guillo and T Seanzie in the fame you referenced. While it's not something I'd say I'm confident of, it is something that scratches at my skull.

@LinearPoint I suppose you are correct. I thought this was valid in voicing the concern I had with Guillo's casing, but I was incorrect as I should've elaborated more.

#214 part 1 reflects on Guillo saying Michelle had the same reaction and the progression doesn't make sense from that perspective.

I think this is gross, Michelle joined thread seeing the gamestate was dead and then decided to do something about it. Went into discussing mechanics, sheeped a vote, etc. The progression in RVS makes sense and to scum read for that progression feels wrong to me.

Feels like an AHA! YOU TOOK THE BAIT, when taking the bait was actually completely NAI.

#215 is kinda shitty as it just kinda shames Michelle for trying to solve during RVS or at least push us through it. Even in meta, michelle finds that it's easier to tr players with a more jovial attitude, so why wouldn't Michelle use that to solve during rvs against fluff?

#216 Saying that Michelle is attempting to fake a derp? You would be well aware that's within my own MO, so I can kinda see it existing, BUT I have no way of knowing if Michelle would do that. Further Michelle discussing mech brought us out of RVS and was net positive for town.

#217 actually has a perceivable truth in it. I did think that Michelle's earlier posts reflected a W perspective and I can find parts to agree with in this one.

#220 is kinda gross. I get finding assoc's pre flip. Figuring out who's not W/W in order to accelerate the reduction of PoE makes sense. pre flip like it was done in isolation, does nothing but push the person of interest and reinforce a story that you shouldn't know as correct. IF #220 wasn't just a post to push the narrative, I'd expect more full preflip analysis from Guillo on everyone, especially when they are 'bored because the thread is dead.'

Does this iterate why I feel that Guillo's read on Michelle comes across as a false narrative?

Yes that is quite helpful actually.

Could you elaborate a little bit on your post of #289?
There you suggested Guillotine and SVS are W/W based on Guillotine wolf reading SVS, but not pushing on them unless absolutely necessary.
I was curious if you had an opinion on (assuming it is W/W) which you think is more likely to be a power role or if both which is stronger? I had some thoughts on that, but wanted a second opinion.

I also wanted to get an idea of who you think Guillotine's partner is if SVS ends up dying and flipping Town to a vig shot or execute tomorrow?

[Michelle]

It seems people are quite confident in their solves so I'll happily assume town is crushing this and let myself be carried to a win.

Your opinion is needed MrR, sir!

And your vote, of course.

[Michelle]

Now I am caught up, I am here until I fell asleep, AMA

[Michelle]

If I'm wrong at any point, there's another several hours to discuss it. Guillotine called me good (I don't know why) and S~V~S has said nothing about me (I don't know why).

One thing is for sure:

Unlike Ozymandias, I will be back later.

If you still dont know why, you have not been reading or lack of reading comprehension or dont understand language or you are myopic

Why don't you think Epi could be scum here, pushing an agenda?

Because i put myself on his shoes to see from his vantage point what he saw, and i can see that my reason to vote SvS at the time looked based on poor logic. It id a townie thought.

Talking about that poor logic, why do you think someone taking advantage of your mistake, if you are town, is town motivated?

[Michelle]

I realise everyone is working/still unable to post