Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]

[DrWilgy]

Nutella feels town. I don't have any good reason to say this definitively, she just feels it. That's not good enough for this stage of the game but it's the thought that is at the forefront of my mind.

Ok
I'm pretty sure there ARE solid reasons to definitely say she's towny, but maybe that's just me

I'm pretty sure Nook hard disagree'd with this take based on legacy.

I should review and see if it's valid, but the Nook legacy seems strong, especially as they were just correct on Lemon for 2 cycles earlier.

[Master Radishes]

imo it would just be weird for Nutella to use the logic that Brad must've included a partner in his townlist as an argument for voting me if she's Brad's partner, or a wolf at all, because it would automatically single her out as soon as I flip town

Isnt that just an unnecessary spotlight?

Any thoughts on this? ^

Cause this is what I was trying to say last night, albeit kind of incoherently
It would be weird for Nutella to use an argument against me that could easily be turned against her, assuming I flip first.

Eh. Wolves will say things. Nutella's not afraid to say a thing and then later flip around completely and say another thing.

Also I don't really care how you form your reads, because I need to figure this out myself.

[WindwardAway]

I don't like how easily she townread me either if I'm honest. In our previous games she pokes and prods me pretty hard.

But then again I kind of townread her early this game myself and allowed myself to just accept that read instead of making a tinfoil hat. Maybe we're just at that stage of our mafia relationship.

She poked and prodded me plenty early on
And I thought it was wolfy till I realized she was wolfreading me for inconsistencies that had resulted from how I completely misread the falcon situation
But imo that at least hard unaligns her from falcon

[Master Radishes]

Nutella feels town. I don't have any good reason to say this definitively, she just feels it. That's not good enough for this stage of the game but it's the thought that is at the forefront of my mind.

Ok
I'm pretty sure there ARE solid reasons to definitely say she's towny, but maybe that's just me

I'm pretty sure Nook hard disagree'd with this take based on legacy.

I should review and see if it's valid, but the Nook legacy seems strong, especially as they were just correct on Lemon for 2 cycles earlier.

Lots of us were iffy on Lemon.

Didn't Nanook also scumread Dizzy?

Legacies aren't worth much tbh. It's not like mafia killed him for what he was saying.

[Master Radishes]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

[DrWilgy]

I think I brought it up earlier, but Nut's perspective on Nook and I was kinda weird.

Though, I don't think Nut is a landlord. Nut putting Brad back up to +3 and advocating for it would've needed to be a brutal bussing as their vote planted the metaphorical shovel.

[Master Radishes]

Like maybe wolf teams could choose how to split and at least one thought about stacking one side.

[WindwardAway]

Nutella feels town. I don't have any good reason to say this definitively, she just feels it. That's not good enough for this stage of the game but it's the thought that is at the forefront of my mind.

Ok
I'm pretty sure there ARE solid reasons to definitely say she's towny, but maybe that's just me

I'm pretty sure Nook hard disagree'd with this take based on legacy.

I should review and see if it's valid, but the Nook legacy seems strong, especially as they were just correct on Lemon for 2 cycles earlier.

I went through Nook's history of scumreading Nutella because I was so sure he'd said she was lockscum somewhere, but he never had (and I swear someone did but idk who it was, I tried searching for a couple variations of that in multiple threads and couldn't get an answer). He said she was likely to be scum, he wasn't entirely sure but just thought there was a decent probability of it.
Theres not so much in Nook's iso that you can't get a quick skim done in all threads, so feel free to check that I didn't miss something.

What I actually want to do next is ISO the flipped wolves in the N0 thread for interactions because I haven't looked at that yet, so I'm gonna try to slog through it a bit while I'm making dinner.

[DrWilgy]

Nutella feels town. I don't have any good reason to say this definitively, she just feels it. That's not good enough for this stage of the game but it's the thought that is at the forefront of my mind.

Ok
I'm pretty sure there ARE solid reasons to definitely say she's towny, but maybe that's just me

I'm pretty sure Nook hard disagree'd with this take based on legacy.

I should review and see if it's valid, but the Nook legacy seems strong, especially as they were just correct on Lemon for 2 cycles earlier.

Lots of us were iffy on Lemon.

Didn't Nanook also scumread Dizzy?

Legacies aren't worth much tbh. It's not like mafia killed him for what he was saying.

Idk, Nooks seemed important and hits different, they had a really good vote record that was observable even before he went over.

[DrWilgy]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

I think we have abit of time before we really need to ask this question.

Unless we think there was 5/5 or 4/5 but that seems skewed given the player count and multiple 3ps.

[WindwardAway]

Nutella feels town. I don't have any good reason to say this definitively, she just feels it. That's not good enough for this stage of the game but it's the thought that is at the forefront of my mind.

Ok
I'm pretty sure there ARE solid reasons to definitely say she's towny, but maybe that's just me

I'm pretty sure Nook hard disagree'd with this take based on legacy.

I should review and see if it's valid, but the Nook legacy seems strong, especially as they were just correct on Lemon for 2 cycles earlier.

Lots of us were iffy on Lemon.

Didn't Nanook also scumread Dizzy?

Legacies aren't worth much tbh. It's not like mafia killed him for what he was saying.

Nook went from townread to scumread on Dizzy. And in hindsight, when I asked him yesterday why that was, and he answered "stupidity", I probably should've taken that as a town sign from him.

But yeah, mafia might have wanted him out because he was correct on some reads, but they also might simply have wanted him out because he was PoE and not mafia.

I think the early game is where things are most interesting, since mafia aren't in antispew yet and town are reading everyone off of tone and intention rather than association.

[WindwardAway]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

Unless we somehow flip an extra 3p on our side of the thread, I wouldn't be pressed to consider that the mafia count is skewed.

[WindwardAway]

I think I brought it up earlier, but Nut's perspective on Nook and I was kinda weird.

Though, I don't think Nut is a landlord. Nut putting Brad back up to +3 and advocating for it would've needed to be a brutal bussing as their vote planted the metaphorical shovel.

Nut is very probably not an arbiter, either. Her suspicion on Lemon was pretty consistent up until the flip. That's why I think she's just town.

[WindwardAway]

Like maybe wolf teams could choose how to split and at least one thought about stacking one side.

That would make for a horrible game. Imagine if one thread had ended up with all 8 wolves.

[DrWilgy]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

I think we have abit of time before we really need to ask this question.

Unless we think there was 5/5 or 4/5 but that seems skewed given the player count and multiple 3ps.

This is the kind of take that gets me in trouble but it really feels like we're saying "hey, don't look at me or my thread anymore." When that is still just the correct thing to do numbers wise.

Had we kept to the correct assumed numbers in severance we would've hit W Rondo.

[Master Radishes]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

Unless we somehow flip an extra 3p on our side of the thread, I wouldn't be pressed to consider that the mafia count is skewed.

I mean if we want to bank the game on a PoE of 4, then let's kill us all off one at a time. Hard to predict how the numbers will work out, but if you're that confident then it should be fine.

[Master Radishes]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

I think we have abit of time before we really need to ask this question.

Unless we think there was 5/5 or 4/5 but that seems skewed given the player count and multiple 3ps.

This is the kind of take that gets me in trouble but it really feels like we're saying "hey, don't look at me or my thread anymore." When that is still just the correct thing to do numbers wise.

Had we kept to the correct assumed numbers in severance we would've hit W Rondo.

Yes I knew that's how my post would be read and I posted it anyway.

[WindwardAway]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

Unless we somehow flip an extra 3p on our side of the thread, I wouldn't be pressed to consider that the mafia count is skewed.

I mean if we want to bank the game on a PoE of 4, then let's kill us all off one at a time. Hard to predict how the numbers will work out, but if you're that confident then it should be fine.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, yeah. Kill off our side of the game and probably all the wolves are dead and town wins.

[DrWilgy]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

Unless we somehow flip an extra 3p on our side of the thread, I wouldn't be pressed to consider that the mafia count is skewed.

I mean if we want to bank the game on a PoE of 4, then let's kill us all off one at a time. Hard to predict how the numbers will work out, but if you're that confident then it should be fine.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, yeah. Kill off our side of the game and probably all the wolves are dead and town wins.

This is the way

[Master Radishes]

Like maybe wolf teams could choose how to split and at least one thought about stacking one side.

That would make for a horrible game. Imagine if one thread had ended up with all 8 wolves.

It'd be funny, yeah.

But if this were the scenario I imagine the choice would be 'minimum 1, otherwise your choice of split'.

Someone had to say the possibility out loud. May as well be me, since I'm already wolfy in your eyes.

[Master Radishes]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

Unless we somehow flip an extra 3p on our side of the thread, I wouldn't be pressed to consider that the mafia count is skewed.

I mean if we want to bank the game on a PoE of 4, then let's kill us all off one at a time. Hard to predict how the numbers will work out, but if you're that confident then it should be fine.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, yeah. Kill off our side of the game and probably all the wolves are dead and town wins.

This is the way

Yep, these decisions based on a mech we don't understand never turn out badly for town.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

Let's go then

[Master Radishes]

So that's 2 of the 4 Easterners saying to do it, which means the scum must be me and nutella.

Except I know that's impossible, so at least one of you is backing yourself into a corner, or the premise is wrong.

Hopefully it's just the former and the town of TSP, Delta, and Sig who are paying close attention to the game are going to figure it all out.

[DrWilgy]

Let's break it down then

PoE is me, MR, Nut, WWA, Davos?

Out of PoE is Delt, Epi, Sig, TSP.

If we assume this PoE is correct based on split threads, 2 nks a night and 2 yeets leaves 3 vote-able slots remaining which would be a normal lylo situation.

Davos being an unknown makes this awkward.

[DrWilgy]

Does any of Delta, Epi, Sig or TSP come off wolfy enough to be put on PoE where numbers continue to make sense (with the exception of Davos)?

[Master Radishes]

Also multiple kills a Night will mess with things.


I'm not counting Davos. If we lose to a sockpuppet that doesn't even post I don't care.

[Master Radishes]

Basically I don't think we actually do have the numbers to run it out, and I feel sorry for the last wolves if that's the case because they're trapped in a tight PoE artificially.

But if that's what we're doing then so be it.

[Master Radishes]

I volunteer to go first so that I don't have the responsibility of solving and yet my legacy will be 66% correct.

[WindwardAway]

N0 interactions:

Ricochet (1) - said hi, said there were 12 pages, and disappeared.

Lemonfairy (9) - interacted with pyxxy and me, posted a readlist and then dipped before anyone else could engage her.

pyxxy (20) - said hi to a bunch of people, all fluff. Then replied to me when I was calling falcon out, to say that falcon declares he's town in every game. Replied to falcon, posted more memes. Really nothing of substance here, given that it's all memeing.

falcon (34) - the first thing of (maybe?) substance that he posted is actually a reply to me about what I said regarding Sabi's opening post, which was the source of why Alison scumread me. He also told me he declares he's town in every game. Then there was the debacle between Guillo and falcon regarding whether Nook and Guillo were both set in their own reasoning on how differently they reacted to Sabi's post. The last notable thing is falcon asking sig whether he agrees with Nut that the thread feels too negative.

Abbi (94) - calls falcon towny for saying he's town, tells me falcon definitely does that in every game. Tells Michelle she didn't get any townreads out of reading yet, agrees with Nut that the thread is depressing. Stuff about wanting to mason with Porscha, stuff about Caitlin. Then replies to Guillo that falcon is town for his reaction to the whole discussion surrounding him. Tries to pocket Caitlin (I think) in response to Caitlin calling her wolfy. Contradicts Guillo about Caitlin. Calls sig town. Calls my take that Caitlin is scummy for going against consensus and townreading me "intriguing". Taunts Alison (side note, I actually really wish I'd read this part of the thread before locking in on Alison in East Facility, even without Abbi's flip). Tells MR he's wolfy after he jokingly says to smack him on the head and call him wolfy. Replies in what seems like a slightly frustrated manner to Caitlin about disagreeing with her reads (Caitlin says WWA and Cape are wolfy, Nutella and Sabi are wolfy) and ignores the part about Cape and me. Says Nutella and Sabi aren't wolfy and Sabi is towny. Thanks Nutella for defending her against one of Alison's cases.

Conclusion: This was a big waste of time.

[WindwardAway]

Let's break it down then

PoE is me, MR, Nut, WWA, Davos?

Out of PoE is Delt, Epi, Sig, TSP.

If we assume this PoE is correct based on split threads, 2 nks a night and 2 yeets leaves 3 vote-able slots remaining which would be a normal lylo situation.

Davos being an unknown makes this awkward.

Honestly I am not counting Davos as a separate player slot. They are a vote, but they haven't been much of a player presence.

[WindwardAway]

Does any of Delta, Epi, Sig or TSP come off wolfy enough to be put on PoE where numbers continue to make sense (with the exception of Davos)?

Not really, off the top of my head

[Master Radishes]

N0 interactions:

<snip>

Conclusion: This was a big waste of time.

Probably could've predicted that. I'd glanced at a couple myself and got nothing.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine


I feel bad voting for MR, he's such a good bloke.


Good night.

[WindwardAway]

N0 interactions:

<snip>

Conclusion: This was a big waste of time.

Probably could've predicted that. I'd glanced at a couple myself and got nothing.

I legitimately thought it would be productive, because I knew that multiple people were trying to solve the game already on N0, but I think I underestimated how much the wolves would fluff post. None of them were really making solvy-looking posts.

Oh, and I forgot to ISO Lime Coke there I'll look quickly for completions sake but knowing him, it was probably just fluff.

[WindwardAway]

N0 interactions:

<snip>

Conclusion: This was a big waste of time.

Probably could've predicted that. I'd glanced at a couple myself and got nothing.

I legitimately thought it would be productive, because I knew that multiple people were trying to solve the game already on N0, but I think I underestimated how much the wolves would fluff post. None of them were really making solvy-looking posts.

Oh, and I forgot to ISO Lime Coke there I'll look quickly for completions sake but knowing him, it was probably just fluff.

Lol
The only player Brad interacted with was Abbi and it was fluff.

[nutella]

whew suddenly posting is happening again

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

oh believe me i've been keeping this in the back of my mind as well. like i do think it is just slightly silly to be completely tunnel visioned about this because if there is a wolf from west they are just sitting back and laughing at us this whole time

[nutella]

also if you think coasting in later days isn't what you expect from me you're expecting wrong lol (i expected to be dead by now ngl and im lazy and busy)

[nutella]

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

Unless we somehow flip an extra 3p on our side of the thread, I wouldn't be pressed to consider that the mafia count is skewed.

I mean if we want to bank the game on a PoE of 4, then let's kill us all off one at a time. Hard to predict how the numbers will work out, but if you're that confident then it should be fine.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, yeah. Kill off our side of the game and probably all the wolves are dead and town wins.

This is the way

what if we're all towny though

[nutella]

Delt, Epi, Sig, TSP

like i'm gonna be real i could see any of these names being mafia at this point while the eastern folks are just like all pretty towny right now LOL

[nutella]

at least for today i will probably stick to voting in east but idk guys i'm worried

[nutella]

they (the westerners) are pretty much all sitting back and doing nothing this phase which exacerbates the worry

like i'm actually paranoid of epi because he was sort of weird about the falcon stuff and his spat with sloonei afterward and i think he's comfortable now idk

[nutella]

the more i think about it the more i think it's literally just stupid and naive to assume the split is perfectly even. like it's too easy

[nutella]

i'm tired and spent all my focus today on work but if yall have more energy for digging i do suggest we start to earnestly look into interactions of west folks too even if we commit to yeeting an easterner today

[WindwardAway]

they (the westerners) are pretty much all sitting back and doing nothing this phase which exacerbates the worry

like i'm actually paranoid of epi because he was sort of weird about the falcon stuff and his spat with sloonei afterward and i think he's comfortable now idk

I actually gave some thought to the Epi/Sloonei thing after Sloonei flipped, but I feel like the simplest explanation was just that Sloonei mightve had a wincon to execute Epi. Idk, I guess I'd have to hear from some people from West about whether this also happened in their thread before the merge, and since Sloonei was 3p his push doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Epi's alignment and he probably wouldn't even have known for sure.

But I do feel like worrying about whether the wolf distribution is even is opening a can of worms, tbh. It's not as if I haven't also thought about it, but it feels kinda wrong to at this point. I can think of very few ways to balance out an uneven number of mafia in each thread, and it involves 3ps and sock puppets.

[WindwardAway]

Speaking of which, is @Davos even still around?

[nutella]

they (the westerners) are pretty much all sitting back and doing nothing this phase which exacerbates the worry

like i'm actually paranoid of epi because he was sort of weird about the falcon stuff and his spat with sloonei afterward and i think he's comfortable now idk

I actually gave some thought to the Epi/Sloonei thing after Sloonei flipped, but I feel like the simplest explanation was just that Sloonei mightve had a wincon to execute Epi. Idk, I guess I'd have to hear from some people from West about whether this also happened in their thread before the merge, and since Sloonei was 3p his push doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Epi's alignment and he probably wouldn't even have known for sure.

But I do feel like worrying about whether the wolf distribution is even is opening a can of worms, tbh. It's not as if I haven't also thought about it, but it feels kinda wrong to at this point. I can think of very few ways to balance out an uneven number of mafia in each thread, and it involves 3ps and sock puppets.

strongly doubt it was anything like that and i do not find it productive to speculate on sloonei's win con, i think he believed that epi was falcon's teammate and i can see it

[nutella]

But I do feel like worrying about whether the wolf distribution is even is opening a can of worms, tbh. It's not as if I haven't also thought about it, but it feels kinda wrong to at this point. I can think of very few ways to balance out an uneven number of mafia in each thread, and it involves 3ps and sock puppets.

and as for this, well, the west sock puppet was town, maybe the davos one is wolf but would that then imply that there's one more actual wolf player in the west side and he's in east to balance out us being town lol

[nutella]

that could actually make sense

[WindwardAway]

i'm tired and spent all my focus today on work but if yall have more energy for digging i do suggest we start to earnestly look into interactions of west folks too even if we commit to yeeting an easterner today

Idk how much time I have before tomorrow, but I kept some notes in the back of my mind about some of the west folks while I was browsing through the N0 wolf ISOs. Not a ton of clears there, and almost nothing regarding the remaining Easterners, but I have at least one or two semi-clears for Westerners. Like I made a clear note that Abbi and sig did not seem to be aligned, and also that someone else pointed it out (but I forgot who).

Considering most of that ended up being a waste of time, I'm not super keen on poring over the N0 ISOs yet again, but I might scour this thread instead. Plus Delta said he'd come back in the morning with some info on the interactions in the West thread, which might be helpful too.

I feel like I've gone through the East thread quite a lot already and haven't really found anything else that pops out at me. It's just flat-out PoE'ing at this point, and I thought Wilgy was giving solving a decent shot today, but I'm kind of inclined to say the same about MR, despite my misgivings earlier. At the very least, there's been a lot of discussion going on, and the last two wolves are not teamed (which, tbf, is also an assumption that there's 2 in total with 1 on each team) so I'm sure a lot of the discussion could genuinely be the wolves trying to smoke each other out. But in that case, we have wolves trying to solve each other and half the town not really trying too hard yet to find them.

In fairness to West Facility, they can take their time solving where the last wolves are in East since none of them are hard PoE today (at least, not right now). I wouldn't really call it coasting so much as a complete absence of pressure. But at the very least, I'd like to know their thoughts, considering all of us from East have generated a sizable amount of discussion.

[WindwardAway]

But I do feel like worrying about whether the wolf distribution is even is opening a can of worms, tbh. It's not as if I haven't also thought about it, but it feels kinda wrong to at this point. I can think of very few ways to balance out an uneven number of mafia in each thread, and it involves 3ps and sock puppets.

and as for this, well, the west sock puppet was town, maybe the davos one is wolf but would that then imply that there's one more actual wolf player in the west side and he's in east to balance out us being town lol

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant about sock puppets being used to balance uneven wolf distributions. Davos has an owner who must be on the East side according to Cape's flip, and if that's a wolf, West has 5 wolves and East has 3.
But I'm not really sure it would be worth yeeting Davos to find out, tbh, because we get almost nothing from that flip other than a dead sock puppet who might flip wolf.

[WindwardAway]

But I do feel like worrying about whether the wolf distribution is even is opening a can of worms, tbh. It's not as if I haven't also thought about it, but it feels kinda wrong to at this point. I can think of very few ways to balance out an uneven number of mafia in each thread, and it involves 3ps and sock puppets.

and as for this, well, the west sock puppet was town, maybe the davos one is wolf but would that then imply that there's one more actual wolf player in the west side and he's in east to balance out us being town lol

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant about sock puppets being used to balance uneven wolf distributions. Davos has an owner who must be on the East side according to Cape's flip, and if that's a wolf, West has 5 wolves and East has 3.
But I'm not really sure it would be worth yeeting Davos to find out, tbh, because we get almost nothing from that flip other than a dead sock puppet who might flip wolf.

I mean if we had to find out whether Davos was a wolf or not, I would vastly prefer yeeting their owner and not just the sock puppet, but we don't know who that is so ???
We also don't know if Davos would die if their owner dies, since we don't know who Scrappy's owner was
Ugh, I don't want to think about this.