Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]

[WindwardAway]

Wait, but then that also means one wolf team would have more vote power than the other? And thread control?

[WindwardAway]

Wait, but then that also means one wolf team would have more vote power than the other? And thread control?

Actually
Davos has only made a maximum of one post per day, including their vote
Which would logically be a balance mechanism also to keep the power levels from being imbalanced between the two wolf teams
...Am I overthinking this?

[WindwardAway]

Well
I think yeeting Davos would give us the answer about wolf distributions, but I also think it's kind of anti-town because it's highly unlikely the sock puppets count separately toward parity for the wolves.

[DrWilgy]

Do we know if Davis is "owned"?

The game Davos comes from players and their socks were one in the same.

Scrappy was owned by an external player in their original game.

[WindwardAway]

Do we know if Davis is "owned"?

The game Davos comes from players and their socks were one in the same.

Scrappy was owned by an external player in their original game.

We don't know, I don't think. There's been plenty of speculation on Davos but no proof either way.

But if the socks mirror their roles in their original games, then Scrappy was a hidden (anonymous) player and Davos is tied to someone listed as a player in the game, and that would also throw off the even count of players per thread and consequently town-to-wolf ratios.

[WindwardAway]

Do we know if Davis is "owned"?

The game Davos comes from players and their socks were one in the same.

Scrappy was owned by an external player in their original game.

We don't know, I don't think. There's been plenty of speculation on Davos but no proof either way.

But if the socks mirror their roles in their original games, then Scrappy was a hidden (anonymous) player and Davos is tied to someone listed as a player in the game, and that would also throw off the even count of players per thread and consequently town-to-wolf ratios.

I mean, for all this time I assumed both sock puppets were controlled by players in-game. But if Scrappy had no post or vote restriction and Davos does, as I think is the case, then maybe you're right.

[TonyStarkPrime]

At what point do we just vote out Davos here

[TonyStarkPrime]

Probably should have been yesterday

[TonyStarkPrime]

Nutella’s a wolf though

[WindwardAway]

Nutella’s a wolf though

What am I not seeing, why is she a wolf?

[TonyStarkPrime]

wolfy demeanor

[TonyStarkPrime]

wolfy actions

[TonyStarkPrime]

posted in haiku

[TonyStarkPrime]

don't like attempts at POE expansion from nutella while she's holding firm to "the poe is correct"

[TonyStarkPrime]

and besides we promised nanook we'd do it

[leetic]

the more i think about it the more i think it's literally just stupid and naive to assume the split is perfectly even. like it's too easy

I highly doubt it's split to the point that there are six wolves in one side and only two in the other. One ITP flipped on each side, so a significant disparity in ITPs is not the solution either. I would look at anyone who tries to expand the current PoE to include people from my side with suspicion.

[leetic]

At what point do we just vote out Davos here

We probbly had a few opportunities to vig 'em yesterday, but whatever. I don't like that I'm not sure how to deal with their account, but if they're wolf it's probably best to root out their owner.

[Epignosis]

I think the early game is where things are most interesting, since mafia aren't in antispew yet and town are reading everyone off of tone and intention rather than association.

Is there really much point in creating a counterwagon for the sake of having one, though? That seems a bit strange, especially for a wolf like Brad who is often extremely polarized to the point he will freeze entirely as wolf (as we saw in East Facility). There doesn't need to be a counterwagon if the wagoned player in question doesn't make any effort to support one. Brad didn't even give any (fake) scumreads, only townreads. So he was definitely in antispew trying to avoid putting a vote, and knew he would be bussed.

Got em

[Epignosis]

N0 interactions:

Ricochet (1) - said hi, said there were 12 pages, and disappeared.

Lemonfairy (9) - interacted with pyxxy and me, posted a readlist and then dipped before anyone else could engage her.

pyxxy (20) - said hi to a bunch of people, all fluff. Then replied to me when I was calling falcon out, to say that falcon declares he's town in every game. Replied to falcon, posted more memes. Really nothing of substance here, given that it's all memeing.

falcon (34) - the first thing of (maybe?) substance that he posted is actually a reply to me about what I said regarding Sabi's opening post, which was the source of why Alison scumread me. He also told me he declares he's town in every game. Then there was the debacle between Guillo and falcon regarding whether Nook and Guillo were both set in their own reasoning on how differently they reacted to Sabi's post. The last notable thing is falcon asking sig whether he agrees with Nut that the thread feels too negative.

Abbi (94) - calls falcon towny for saying he's town, tells me falcon definitely does that in every game. Tells Michelle she didn't get any townreads out of reading yet, agrees with Nut that the thread is depressing. Stuff about wanting to mason with Porscha, stuff about Caitlin. Then replies to Guillo that falcon is town for his reaction to the whole discussion surrounding him. Tries to pocket Caitlin (I think) in response to Caitlin calling her wolfy. Contradicts Guillo about Caitlin. Calls sig town. Calls my take that Caitlin is scummy for going against consensus and townreading me "intriguing". Taunts Alison (side note, I actually really wish I'd read this part of the thread before locking in on Alison in East Facility, even without Abbi's flip). Tells MR he's wolfy after he jokingly says to smack him on the head and call him wolfy. Replies in what seems like a slightly frustrated manner to Caitlin about disagreeing with her reads (Caitlin says WWA and Cape are wolfy, Nutella and Sabi are wolfy) and ignores the part about Cape and me. Says Nutella and Sabi aren't wolfy and Sabi is towny. Thanks Nutella for defending her against one of Alison's cases.

Conclusion: This was a big waste of time.

So why did you post it?

[Epignosis]

they (the westerners) are pretty much all sitting back and doing nothing this phase which exacerbates the worry

like i'm actually paranoid of epi because he was sort of weird about the falcon stuff and his spat with sloonei afterward and i think he's comfortable now idk

I am far from comfortable.

I worked a 31-hour Super Bowl hell weekend.

I stated as much beforehand.

I'm around for about 20-30 more minutes and then I've got to get some rest. Big damn work weekend for me. Ask anything you want and I'll try to answer.

I wasn't weird about falcon either. I was very clear on my position, and that position was a shit one. I don't fault anyone for suspecting me on the basis of that, but pairing it with me making a living over playing a game on the Internet and calling me comfortable for it is nonsense.

[Epignosis]

Be that as it may, since I can reasonably be linked to Falcon's team by virtue of that (and I don't think anyone would reasonably suspect me to be a Landlord), I suppose it would behoove me to prioritize the red team. So that is what I'll do.

[nutella]

don't like attempts at POE expansion from nutella while she's holding firm to "the poe is correct"

i'm not though lol

[nutella]

ok actually though i'm staying on windward

[Epignosis]

I really should start this shit REVERSE ALPHABETICAL order like some teachers used to do back in the day just to give the Zellers and the Williams kids a chance to go first for a change.

I feel like I've looked into Delta nine hundred times.

[Epignosis]

Yeah, I'll table Delta and go to the bottom of the list.

[Epignosis]

Before I get into that, I do want to point out that the setup at this juncture is most likely 7 v 1 v 1. It could be 6 v 1 v 1 v 1. I don't see it being anything else.

My point is that the best use of your civilian energy is digging into teammate interactions (or lack thereof) rather than GUESSING (which is exactly what it is) how many of what team was where when.

[Epignosis]

Multiple threads are a pain in my ass. Especially when you have to be careful not to quote from one of them.

[Epignosis]

Okay, last excuse: I'm not quoting anything unless I see a need to. I'm going to comment about what I'm seeing, and if you need references, maybe I can pick them back out after that, but this shit is too cumbersome, too many tabs, and too much bourbon.

[Epignosis]

WindwardAway + falcon45ca


A lot of time was spent on falcon and WWA going back and forth on falcon saying I AM TOWN as a first post and quoting something trite. WWA even tried to verify it but ran into "technical difficulties." I verified it and falcon even named a game where he did it (though to be fair, that audio file is probably expired).

My point is that this Night 0 exchange looks like bullshit to me.

Tbh I would just call falcon town atp instead of making that specific unpairing but sure

WWA can get my first inclination for early scrutiny

why would i call falcon town? i've been sideeyeing him since his opening post, and like, i get that people are now telling me that he always says he's town as an opener but i sure ain't gonna townread that shit.

he's already this invested in a player interaction he's probably town imo

Is that how it works? I don't think any of his interaction had to do with making reads on people.

Oooo...look at nutella being all weird about the falcon stuff.

I think this reaction by WWA is over the top. Nobody expected anybody to believe falcon was TOWN because falcon said I AM TOWN.

Cape the indy pointed this out.

WWA used this as an opportunity to paint nutella in a bad light based a superficial issue.

This is textbook teammate compatibility.

WindwardAway can make an easily discredited claim against a teammate while making someone else look bad for it.

The last part of the conversation ends with a question and a vague shrug rather than pushing the conversation forward.

I think that is in contrast to this claim:

I am curious
to hear the case on Delta
that has been mentioned


Curious that sig
and falcon are both suspects;
had early good vibes

I suspected both sig and falcon in the N0 thread lol
maybe it's time I should do a little backreading but I'd like to hear the cases on them too

And look at me quoting posts anyway because I can't help it:

How about this?

Among those who have 10 or more posts in this thread right now, whom do you suspect the most?

I say Sloonei.

huh, why sloonei? he
seems pretty solid to me
is there more context?

mine would probably
be leetic out of the list.
but would not vote there

I've found Sloonei to be more reactive than proactive. I'm used to good Sloondog digging in and asking questions.

Moreover, Sloonei kept going on about falcon but has moved on from exploring that here.

Before that, Sloonei voted falcon to give pyxxy space (but did vote pyxxy eventually).

falcon hasn't posted in this thread yet, though?

I don't see the relevance.

I missed the entire second half of Day 2, but during the first half of the phase Epi put forward a decent argument for Delta to be teamed with pyxxy (and I guess Lime Coke).

I have a vague and not-well-defined suspicion of Falcon.

Now that we're all in the same room, should we compare notes about whether or not this game might be multiball?

This is what I'm talking about. Why not ask falcon questions? Why not mention falcon? Why not summon his winged ass in here?

The vote on falcon was lukewarm and devoid of substance in the other thread. Sloonei seems content to leave it so. Instead of exploring that, "Hey guys, let's talk about multiball."

ah, I see your point.

There's a subtle defense of falcon here: "falcon hasn't posted in this thread yet, though?"

But there's a dead end on the conversation. Why not go, "Yeah, Sloonei, what's up with falcon these days?"

Fizzled.

++++

This was a poor job of trying not to quote.

A lot of the direct falcon exchanges look phony to me.

[nutella]

interesting, i have wind down as more likely landlord from my reread of east/lime stuff (and from being less likely with lemon) but i can see what you're seeing there too

[Epignosis]

WindwardAway + Ricochet

Nothing Night 0 because Rico had one post.

Weekend laze tis real and hit hard. I wanted nothing but study and sleep and cats and muvis tbh.

Hi ho.

Caught up to page 7 in the last hour. Gonna find another hour, later, to read the rest.

@Ricochet i know it's been a while since you last popped in, but when you catch up, I'd like to hear your take on the current wagons.

I'm curious what your thought process is, and tbh I keep forgetting you're in the game because I haven't seen anyone from West Facility mention having a read on you.

Why the double shoulder tap here?

What interests me is that WWA didn't do this to Nanook in this thread.

So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

And actually, the way Lemon said she expires D3/D4 made it sound more like she might die from a mechanical effect and not just because she might get lunched. I could be reading into it too much, though, and I know she can't confirm or deny it.

Big damn post here.

Only two folks commented on in the weakest way in response to RICO:

FALCON
LEMON

I'm going to pause right there because either that's a remarkable coincidence or it's not.

And [VOTE: WindwardAway] aubergine

[Epignosis]

WindwardAway - Windward would actually be the towniest out of everyone on Lemon's wagon. In my past read lists, I have consistently placed her in the lowest group of reads until I moved her up on Day 2. The initially reason was because she felt awkward and out of place in a thread where most people were vibing and having a good time but in hindsight, that could have been because she just wasn't in the mood. Later on, due to tensions in the thread in the East Facility between Windward/Alison/Sabi, I consciously or unconsciously refrained from progressing with my read on her (it's easy to misread people when they're riled up/emotional). I went back to ISO Windward at a later time and eventually moved her up to townleans.

Now with regard to my wagon, Windward is probably the only person, out of everyone on that wagon, who has actually tried to interact with me. She has quoted and pinged me more than once to ask about my reads. If I think about it, the only other people who have done this are Michelle and Creature, who have both flipped town. Other than these, there is Cape, who I think is one of the few people who actually reads my posts (more on this later). While I do accept that I have been relatively closed off in my own world, I also think it's really easy for scum (and also town) to push me without trying to understand where I'm coming from when I post my reads.

There's also this juicy thing. I don't think it's sporting to hold this on its own against WWA since WWA isn't the author, but I still have to think about it and dig into the other side.

[leetic]

Going to try to finish up what I did yesterday but I'm not in the mood to go in as much detail for the explanations.

Cape - Generally vibed with reads. Feels like they have been reading my posts. Similar to town Cape I've seen in the past.
Sabi - Never really vibed with Sabi's reads. Didn't pay much attention to them either. Skimmed through ISO and think they could be wolf. I did think their post about thread being boring and hoping someone will stir the pot was kind of towny but it's not something solid I can lean on.
Master Radishes - Hmmm Radishes is actually OK. Next.
DrWilgy - Wilgy's ISO is not as bad as I thought it would be TBH. The frog noises tickled me. This is more of a tone read though.
DarlingMonroe - Not a lot of reads. Not feeling the tone either. Could be wolf.

Would probably order like so:
Cape
Master Radishes
Sabi
DrWilgy
Darling Monroe

If I added everyone else:
Cape
Windward
nutella

Dyslexicon
Master Radishes
DrWilgy

Nanook
Sabi
Darling Monroe

IDK how I feel about this but it is what it is.

If they have a tendency to put their partners high, it's between WWA and nutella. If they have a tendency to put their partners in the middle, it's MR or Wilgy. Fortunately, I believe they have a post ranking the people from my side, so we'll have to check it out…

[leetic]

Quick ISOs. This list is alphabetical btw.
Delta - Cheerful and cutesy first impression. Posts have mostly neutral/even tone. Will put them at mid now and change later after I've seen everyone. Could be scum.
Epignosis - Couple of takes. Feels alright.
falcon45ca - Couple of takes. Too many spaces. Feels alright.
leetic - Strong focus on pyxxy wagon and what happened. Feels alright/mid.
Long Con - Likes some posts. Probably first slot I feel OK putting in towns.
☆Princess Abigail☆ - Fighting for wolf pelt means this is probs town Abigail? Can see a few takes from rest of posts. Might be being a bit too generous.
Ricochet - Now that I've seen these wallposts, I've realized how obnoxious mine was. Sorry. ISO feels alright/pretty good.
sig - Not much there. Feels alight/mid.
Sloonei - It's kind of alright. Although the bar is set pretty low at this point. A bit wordy.
TonyStarkPrime - I remember Dyslexicon calling Tony town at least twice (not relevant but thought I'd mention it). After ISOing, feels mid.
Scrappy Doo - Definitely better than whatever Davos is doing. Towny tone. Feels alright.

Ordered list:
Long Con
Ricochet
Princess Abigail

Epignosis
falcon
Sloonei
Scrappy Doo[/color[

leetic
Tony
sig

Delta

Something like this.
I skimmed a lot so take it with salt.

Interesting that the four of us on the bottom (plus Epi) are still alive. Still, that's one partner ranked high and the other in the middle, which doesn't tell me much. I'd be inclined to lean towards the other partner being in the middle rather than top, as wolves are more likely to be self-concious of putting too many of their partners too high, but it's not solid enough evidence.

[leetic]

Quick ISOs. This list is alphabetical btw.
Delta - Cheerful and cutesy first impression. Posts have mostly neutral/even tone. Will put them at mid now and change later after I've seen everyone. Could be scum.
Epignosis - Couple of takes. Feels alright.
falcon45ca - Couple of takes. Too many spaces. Feels alright.
leetic - Strong focus on pyxxy wagon and what happened. Feels alright/mid.
Long Con - Likes some posts. Probably first slot I feel OK putting in towns.
☆Princess Abigail☆ - Fighting for wolf pelt means this is probs town Abigail? Can see a few takes from rest of posts. Might be being a bit too generous.
Ricochet - Now that I've seen these wallposts, I've realized how obnoxious mine was. Sorry. ISO feels alright/pretty good.
sig - Not much there. Feels alight/mid.
Sloonei - It's kind of alright. Although the bar is set pretty low at this point. A bit wordy.
TonyStarkPrime - I remember Dyslexicon calling Tony town at least twice (not relevant but thought I'd mention it). After ISOing, feels mid.
Scrappy Doo - Definitely better than whatever Davos is doing. Towny tone. Feels alright.

Ordered list:
Long Con
Ricochet
Princess Abigail

Epignosis
falcon
Sloonei
Scrappy Doo

leetic
Tony
sig

Delta

Something like this.
I skimmed a lot so take it with salt.

Interesting that the four of us on the bottom (plus Epi) are still alive. Still, that's one partner ranked high and the other in the middle, which doesn't tell me much. I'd be inclined to lean towards the other partner being in the middle rather than top, as wolves are more likely to be self-concious of putting too many of their partners too high, but it's not solid enough evidence.

Fixed formatting

[leetic]

falcon never directly interacted with Lemonfairy or Ricochet D3. If he interacted with his remaining partner, they'd be the exception. Thing is, he interacted with every reamining member of the other thread:

- He responded to no less than ten posts from MR, which comprises an entire one fourth of his ISO.
- He responded to two of nutella's posts, one being a simple "disagree" but another asking for reads
- He responded to one of DrWilgy's posts that was accusing him
- He responded with two words to a post of WWA's that was also just two words.

If MR is falcon's partner, falcon's single-minded focus on them while completely ignoring his other two partners (including the one he was in the same thread with!) would be staggering. WWA's post would probably fit in the best with falcon's general avoidance of his partners. falcon's interactions with nutella aren't too inspiring on their own, but falcon did ask them for reads, something he only otherwise did D3 to flipped town DM (as far as I can tell). falcon's response to Wilgy is much stronger, but it is so over-the-top that I cannot entirely dismiss the possibility of it being theatre.

[leetic]

WindwardAway - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

I am curious
to hear the case on Delta
that has been mentioned


Curious that sig
and falcon are both suspects;
had early good vibes

I suspected both sig and falcon in the N0 thread lol
maybe it's time I should do a little backreading but I'd like to hear the cases on them too

Wait, there's art






Imma check it out

The submissions are great

Of the voters on my wagon, Abi & MR look the most opportunistic









[VOTE: freon] aubergine

who's Freon?

Your vote on my wagon feels opportunistic.

No it doesn't.

I like MR's response here

"Opportunistic"
is such an overused word
never good reason

It's the cheapest and easiest go-to reason for a Wolf to use as (part of) a reason to cast a vote on someone.

Town probably use it sometimes as well, it's an understandable way to feel when you're feeling besieged.

But mostly wolfy.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine I do not feel like this is opportunistic, since I've made a case on you in the past, and have you in the red zone of my rainbow list.

I use the word more when I'm town, but regardless, I'm happy to join the "opportunism" :P

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

don't think falcon's doing himself any favors right now.

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

WindwardAway - posts
☆Princess Abigail☆ - posts - Turtle on a Log (Mafia)

all of the people who claim to be good at reading falcon, dead and alive, think falcon is town

These people could all be overestimating their own abilities.

I'd personally love to know who these people are

You're one of them.

I rescinded cause Caitlin than rescinded my rescind cause me again

Vote: DM

ah, I see it now (Abbi back to townreading falcon)
hmm

member of the Landlords

nutella - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

I am curious
to hear the case on Delta
that has been mentioned


Curious that sig
and falcon are both suspects;
had early good vibes

The last game I played with Falcon, he was very aggressive right off the bat. He was picking fights and twisting words in a way that looked like he was trying to generate reads by putting pressure on everyone and everything. Others suspected him for it, but I defended him, saying he looked like a version of town falcon I'd seen before. Eventually his contributions dropped off, and he flipped mafia.

He looked very similar on Day 1 in the other thread. I do not feel like I have seen his reads progress in a meaningful way since then.

okay well then this
seems reasoned enough of a
suspicion to me

I notice quite a few players saying today that they'd rather vote within their Facility where they already have established reads. I do think that's pretty solid reasoning, but I will not commit my vote to the East Facility players if I find overwhelming evidence of someone being scummy who just happens to be from the West Facility. I like that there's already been a lot of discussion and catch-up on what's happened in each of our respective threads, and I'll encourage it to continue, because it's important to get the full picture of what we've missed. But I would be a little wary of the people who are agreeing to only vote someone from their Facility, because I do think it's an easy way for scum to cop out of voting a partner who's catching heat from the opposite thread. I think the original suggestion was towny, but imo the more who agree with it and push it as the correct play, the more likely that wolves are backing the idea.

Strong agree with this
even though I brought it up
it may not quite hold

I am starting to
see the case on falcon now
will consider him

Falcon's return is
not inspiring good feelings
so far. Dirty bird?

i also think the
falcon wagon's stale too
and i town lean him

meanwhile there has been
more resistance to monroe
feeling that's the hit

meh ultimately
i trust monroe's voters more
than falcon's voters

not sure either would
flip wolf at this point but just
might go back in case

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

nutella - posts
☆Princess Abigail☆ - posts - Turtle on a Log (Mafia)

Town: Dizzy, Long Con,
maybe Windward at this point.
Plus sig and Abi.

member of the Landlords

Master Radishes - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Your vote on my wagon feels opportunistic.

No it doesn't.

Yes, MR, it does actually, just like tea feels like crumpets & Scotch eggs feel Welsh

Vote me then.

Falcon's return is
not inspiring good feelings
so far. Dirty bird?

Hence my opportunistic vote.

I think a (some combo of) Brad/pyxxy/Lemon/falcon/Sabi/TSP team could definitely be one that's demoralised in their current position.

Let's go back to killing Lemonfalcon

I've read up but don't think I have much to add.

Falcon's exasperation *might* be towny but I'm not sure it's enough to overcome his poor reactions to pressure and his general lack of having done anything worth townreading.

I have not read Lemonfairy's wallpost so I have no new opinion on her.

The DM wagon is /fine/. I don't really have a strong opinion on them.

Still have general good feelings on Sloonei, Long Con, Epi.

Ah, it feels pretty suffocating to try and solve w/ 7 votes, but Goonies never say die

[VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

Master Radishes
-- for someone from East, therefore info-less on falcon, vote drop was sudden, without hint of inquiry or reading into others' takes and a bit of "nuh-uh" retort to falcon calling it opportunistic (even prodding him to vote back). not ideal elements. later more elaborate, dismissing falcon's "exasperation" as outweighed by poor tone, something I do meld with.
-- had a good impression of him otherwise - active in developing reads and opinionated on enough players and events - but this on its own is a mixed bag

For context, Falc and I go way back, so not entirely info-less in terms of what I'd expect from him. I didn't articulate it because sometimes wordless pressure is the best pressure, but basically I was trusting others who were iffy on Falc from the West thread (and hadn't seen anything from Falc that would lead me to dispute their views). And I was playing with wagons a bit (I think I made it 4 vs Lemon's 5). His reaction to my vote made me actually suspicious of him, though.

Actually I'm fine with any of the main wagons (Delta, DM, Falcon, Lemon) dying, really. To varying extents I'm not convinced on any of them much more than any other, but sure let's kill someone and see what happens.

Maybe I'm just a sucker, but this reply to me

We do go way back, and hungover/mildly cranky falcon was suspicious (and mildly cranky) that you're missing me

makes me wonder if it is just v!Falc. I dunno. It feels like I'd feel the same in reverse - a bit snappish that he wasn't finding obvious town me.

Of the voters on my wagon, Abi & MR look the most opportunistic

[VOTE: mr] aubergine

There's min 2 wolves on my wagon IMO, and it's between leetic/sig & MR/Abi







Apologies if you're all town, but I highly doubt it

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

Master Radishes - posts
☆Princess Abigail☆ - posts - Turtle on a Log (Mafia)

member of the Landlords

DrWilgy - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

I have 6 votes?





That's a lot, eh?

That's what I'm saying!

There shouldn't be 6 votes on me right now






I'm literally towning my ass off, it's just misunderstood

Eh. There was no townspewing from you from the N0 thread.

It's odd that in your posts here so far, you've brought nothing from the other thread nor do I see an explicit interest in the one you weren't in.

You're normally good about showing your within your townrange when you are town, where is that m8?

I don't really get why you seem to put this expectation that falcon should have threadspewed themselves as town immediately into night 0.

Does falcon usually do so from your experiance?

Absolutely.

Falc is one of those players who can make a post that puts them undeniably out of their wolf range. That hasn't happened so far.

Falcon. Falcon as wolf definitely says this.

[VOTE: monroe] aubergine

I disapprove

[VOTE: falcon ] aubergine

I'm pretty sure Falcon is fine to yeet.

They are here and they haven't quite done anything about their wagon.

T Falc definitely cracks back strong and with their own solving.

DM is responding exactly like how I'd expect from them as town.

The fact that I have no memory of Delta in this thread but we have votes there is worth a note. If Falc wasn't a wagon I'd likely vote there.

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

DrWilgy - posts
☆Princess Abigail☆ - posts - Turtle on a Log (Mafia)

member of the Landlords

Lemonfairy - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

falcon45ca - Couple of takes. Too many spaces. Feels alright.

Ordered list:
Long Con
Ricochet
Princess Abigail

Epignosis
falcon
Sloonei
Scrappy Doo

leetic
Tony
sig

Delta

Something like this.
I skimmed a lot so take it with salt.

member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

Lemonfairy - posts
☆Princess Abigail☆ - posts - Turtle on a Log (Mafia)

it's nice to have everyone in one thread again but at the same time, it feels so disorienting and I can't remember half of you

also

☆Princess Abigail☆ - Fighting for wolf pelt means this is probs town Abigail? Can see a few takes from rest of posts. Might be being a bit too generous.

Ordered list:
Long Con
Ricochet
Princess Abigail

Epignosis
falcon
Sloonei
Scrappy Doo

leetic
Tony
sig

Delta

Something like this.
I skimmed a lot so take it with salt.

[VOTE: Lemon] aubergine

This whole thing ending here is like

Vote: Lemon

I hate all these wagons

member of the Landlords

Quoting falcon's "overview" of the people under suspicion, as well as Lemonfairy for the sake of comparison. I can't glean anything from this, but maybe someone else can.

[leetic]

Anyway, dumping the first batch.

Wagoners*

* given the VC at the time of submitting this
NB: not sure the poll reflects the vote chronology as well, but I'll just roll with the names as they appear

falcon

Monroe
-- seems to have parked on falcon just now, despite all their posts being bark back at Epignosis. I suppose it counts as self-pres?
-- just to add to their read, minus point for their recent post aimed at Epignosis, tone still aggro defensive and not the most respectable wording towards Epignosis, either

sig
pyxxy connection: labelled it as unlikely
much of what I've noted down from sig's activity is in fact case-making on falcon, arguments being that falcon is within wolf range and that the Western night kills could show pattern of clean-up in his aid. also admits mindmeld with leetic on the night kills angle. seems fine

Master Radishes
-- for someone from East, therefore info-less on falcon, vote drop was sudden, without hint of inquiry or reading into others' takes and a bit of "nuh-uh" retort to falcon calling it opportunistic (even prodding him to vote back). not ideal elements. later more elaborate, dismissing falcon's "exasperation" as outweighed by poor tone, something I do meld with.
-- had a good impression of him otherwise - active in developing reads and opinionated on enough players and events - but this on its own is a mixed bag

Windward
-- noted her more of a Lemon wagoner for much of D3; falcon switch comes down to disliking falcon's "opportunism" rebuttal at Radishes, it seems. bit cheeky to word it as "happy to join the opportunistic train". later camps reactive attitude, in principle, towards mafia lean. again, had more interest in others, but I can see how the view on falcon might have soured in time and treat the gameplay as wolf-likely
-- activity-wise, I'd rate Windward towny. ample material, not gonna develop full read at this time.

Long Con
pyxxy connection: labelled him sussworthy
-- it is accurate that LC has suss on falcon throughout West period
-- it is also accurate that his waffle on falcon came from trusting Abigail's tone/meta read, true both during West time and during D3 here
-- as far as coming back on falcon wagon, late on seems to make a read - not agreeing with his towning claim, finding his counter-suspicions omgusey. think it's adequate
-- didn't note down any pings from LC today tbh, though overall I find him a bit puzzling. his D3 is probably the better-looking phase of his activity thus far, engaged and opinionated more on the topics, but at times I also he's tagteaming others (much "starting to see this" responses), quite the buddy dynamic with Epignosis, lighthearted banter and focused replies in equal measures. ech, probably wouldn't focus on deciphering this for now

leetic
pyxxy connection: labeled him unlikely
-- pretty much wagons falcon for the nightkill angle; dismisses falcon's defense on that as wifom; don't recall him tackling any other point about falcon
-- really conflicted about leetic overall: was my topwolf pick and vote D1, the aggro-tone was prevalent; Abigail (in West) and Dizzy (in here) mentioned that this is normal leetic; then D2 he shifts into a Pyxxy Scientist (ISO'ing interactions), drop most of the prod and poke tone, a solving attitude I shared and in turned like;
-- now? I'm seeing way less of D2. announced ISOs from West D2, did not deliver; had to defend a bit re: gifting a player who flipped wolf, don't know if that's a topic of suss. informed the merged group of his Pyxxy Science findings, that's fair. couple more reads (Nanook for instance), no definitive wording. still, really slowed down performance. puzzling.

DrWilgy
-- seems to base and bank his falcon vote on lack of townspewing alone. I'd label this a tad narrowing
-- no developed read on his activity atm. word that came to mind, upon quick scroll, was "scrambled". perhaps within expectations.

Looking at flipped town and people from my side that we can reasonably assume aren't partnered, it seems a lot of them are people he waffled/hedged on, with sig being the exception. Wilgy's stands out for being the shortest, granted it's not much shorter than DM's or sig's but the longest two are both on town (though I haven't flipped yet so you'll just have to take my word for it for now). Another thing about his summary of Wilgy is that it says nothing; even with the hedginess/waffliness of some of the others it was clear he was setting up suspicion on them. WWA's seems to be a townread with little to no reservations, although the same can be said for sig; WWA's is longer, as if he felt he needed to try harder to explain that TR (in fairness, WWA posted a lot more than sig did). MR seems to have been townread, but with a bit of hedging; this isn't unlike some of the others we know to be unaligned however. Unfortunately, as this was looking at falcon wagon, nutella isn't on here, nor do we have Lemonfairy as a point of comparison

[leetic]

Now, from what we know, Lemonfairy did not bus falcon. Ricochet did vote falcon, but only after throwing a lot of other shit to the wall that failed to stick. Notably, both falcon and Lemonfairy were on the DM wagon, suggesting there was some level of coordination to keep falcon safe. Now, given that three of the remaining people from the other side were on the falcon wagon before Ricochet, it would suggest that bussing was always in the cards if any of them are the last partner. WWA was on relatively early if I remember correctly, and Wilgy focused on pushing falcon to the exclusion of most anything else. MR dropped off at some point, which would have been basically the opposite of Ricochet's behavior. It could still be nutella, but if that's the case Ricochet and nutella had an opportunity to tie the wagons by both voting DM (granted, every member of a wolf team being on the same wagon is not something that happens often outside of NSM and they may have been worried about losing the rand).

[leetic]

Of the four remaining people from the other thread, WWA was the only one Abby directly interacted with. She interacted with a few others like Lemonfairy, NANOOK, and Dyslexicon (all unaligned) but it was uncommon. Still, Abby only had one partner at that point and a sample size of one is too small to draw any real conclusions.

[leetic]

Here's my GTH ordering for each Facility.

Long Con
Sloonei
Epignosis
leetic
TonyStarkPrime
Delta
sig

WindwardAway
DrWilgy
nutella
Master Radishes
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Davos

LC's reads list before he died. MR was the lowest ranking player after NANOOK's death (unless Davos really is bad and killed LC?). Is that really a position worth killing over? It may have been that wolves considered LC the towniest remaining player from my side, as killing in their own side would be really bad for wolves numbers-wise even if they have a good shot of getting rid of the other team. But why over, say, me or Epi? Perhaps it is not in what LC got right, but in what we got wrong

[leetic]

Here's my GTH ordering for each Facility.

Long Con
Sloonei
Epignosis
leetic
TonyStarkPrime
Delta
sig

WindwardAway
DrWilgy
nutella
Master Radishes
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Davos

LC's reads list before he died. MR was the lowest ranking player after NANOOK's death (unless Davos really is bad and killed LC?). Is that really a position worth killing over? It may have been that wolves considered LC the towniest remaining player from my side, as killing in their own side would be really bad for wolves numbers-wise even if they have a good shot of getting rid of the other team. But why over, say, me or Epi? Perhaps it is not in what LC got right, but in what we got wrong

Or maybe they killed LC because of their read on WWA, as they wanted them to be more likely to be lynched? But LC was not alone in this read and wasn't really know for hard defending WWA outside of this post

[WindwardAway]

posted in haiku

That was definitely a post restriction
Whoever it was, also hit MR in the East thread before that

[WindwardAway]

don't like attempts at POE expansion from nutella while she's holding firm to "the poe is correct"

Fair, I guess? Idk, I kept thinking it over and really didn't reach a conclusion on whether the PoE is correct or not I hate that this was brought up already today

[WindwardAway]

N0 interactions:

Ricochet (1) - said hi, said there were 12 pages, and disappeared.

Lemonfairy (9) - interacted with pyxxy and me, posted a readlist and then dipped before anyone else could engage her.

pyxxy (20) - said hi to a bunch of people, all fluff. Then replied to me when I was calling falcon out, to say that falcon declares he's town in every game. Replied to falcon, posted more memes. Really nothing of substance here, given that it's all memeing.

falcon (34) - the first thing of (maybe?) substance that he posted is actually a reply to me about what I said regarding Sabi's opening post, which was the source of why Alison scumread me. He also told me he declares he's town in every game. Then there was the debacle between Guillo and falcon regarding whether Nook and Guillo were both set in their own reasoning on how differently they reacted to Sabi's post. The last notable thing is falcon asking sig whether he agrees with Nut that the thread feels too negative.

Abbi (94) - calls falcon towny for saying he's town, tells me falcon definitely does that in every game. Tells Michelle she didn't get any townreads out of reading yet, agrees with Nut that the thread is depressing. Stuff about wanting to mason with Porscha, stuff about Caitlin. Then replies to Guillo that falcon is town for his reaction to the whole discussion surrounding him. Tries to pocket Caitlin (I think) in response to Caitlin calling her wolfy. Contradicts Guillo about Caitlin. Calls sig town. Calls my take that Caitlin is scummy for going against consensus and townreading me "intriguing". Taunts Alison (side note, I actually really wish I'd read this part of the thread before locking in on Alison in East Facility, even without Abbi's flip). Tells MR he's wolfy after he jokingly says to smack him on the head and call him wolfy. Replies in what seems like a slightly frustrated manner to Caitlin about disagreeing with her reads (Caitlin says WWA and Cape are wolfy, Nutella and Sabi are wolfy) and ignores the part about Cape and me. Says Nutella and Sabi aren't wolfy and Sabi is towny. Thanks Nutella for defending her against one of Alison's cases.

Conclusion: This was a big waste of time.

So why did you post it?

Because I stupidly kept saying in the thread that I was going to go through N0 interactions and didn't think making a post that said "N0 contains nothing of relevance" would cut it?
Tbf there were some important interactions but they were all with dead players.

[WindwardAway]

Before I get into that, I do want to point out that the setup at this juncture is most likely 7 v 1 v 1. It could be 6 v 1 v 1 v 1. I don't see it being anything else.

My point is that the best use of your civilian energy is digging into teammate interactions (or lack thereof) rather than GUESSING (which is exactly what it is) how many of what team was where when.

Yeah and? I've been doing exactly that and looking for interactions. I'm tired of putting in the effort if it's not even producing results.

[WindwardAway]

WindwardAway + falcon45ca


A lot of time was spent on falcon and WWA going back and forth on falcon saying I AM TOWN as a first post and quoting something trite. WWA even tried to verify it but ran into "technical difficulties." I verified it and falcon even named a game where he did it (though to be fair, that audio file is probably expired).

My point is that this Night 0 exchange looks like bullshit to me.

Tbh I would just call falcon town atp instead of making that specific unpairing but sure

WWA can get my first inclination for early scrutiny

why would i call falcon town? i've been sideeyeing him since his opening post, and like, i get that people are now telling me that he always says he's town as an opener but i sure ain't gonna townread that shit.

he's already this invested in a player interaction he's probably town imo

Is that how it works? I don't think any of his interaction had to do with making reads on people.

Oooo...look at nutella being all weird about the falcon stuff.

I think this reaction by WWA is over the top. Nobody expected anybody to believe falcon was TOWN because falcon said I AM TOWN.

Cape the indy pointed this out.

WWA used this as an opportunity to paint nutella in a bad light based a superficial issue.

This is textbook teammate compatibility.

WindwardAway can make an easily discredited claim against a teammate while making someone else look bad for it.

The last part of the conversation ends with a question and a vague shrug rather than pushing the conversation forward.

I think that is in contrast to this claim:

I am curious
to hear the case on Delta
that has been mentioned


Curious that sig
and falcon are both suspects;
had early good vibes

I suspected both sig and falcon in the N0 thread lol
maybe it's time I should do a little backreading but I'd like to hear the cases on them too

And look at me quoting posts anyway because I can't help it:

How about this?

Among those who have 10 or more posts in this thread right now, whom do you suspect the most?

I say Sloonei.

huh, why sloonei? he
seems pretty solid to me
is there more context?

mine would probably
be leetic out of the list.
but would not vote there

I've found Sloonei to be more reactive than proactive. I'm used to good Sloondog digging in and asking questions.

Moreover, Sloonei kept going on about falcon but has moved on from exploring that here.

Before that, Sloonei voted falcon to give pyxxy space (but did vote pyxxy eventually).

falcon hasn't posted in this thread yet, though?

I don't see the relevance.

I missed the entire second half of Day 2, but during the first half of the phase Epi put forward a decent argument for Delta to be teamed with pyxxy (and I guess Lime Coke).

I have a vague and not-well-defined suspicion of Falcon.

Now that we're all in the same room, should we compare notes about whether or not this game might be multiball?

This is what I'm talking about. Why not ask falcon questions? Why not mention falcon? Why not summon his winged ass in here?

The vote on falcon was lukewarm and devoid of substance in the other thread. Sloonei seems content to leave it so. Instead of exploring that, "Hey guys, let's talk about multiball."

ah, I see your point.

There's a subtle defense of falcon here: "falcon hasn't posted in this thread yet, though?"

But there's a dead end on the conversation. Why not go, "Yeah, Sloonei, what's up with falcon these days?"

Fizzled.

++++

This was a poor job of trying not to quote.

A lot of the direct falcon exchanges look phony to me.

You're missing a lot of the continuation of this in the East thread, actually. I thought Nutella had replied TO ME and told me to read falcon town, when in fact, she had absolutely not done that. She was just making a general statement and I wasted D1 pushing for it until someone quoted her post from N0 and I had a second look at it.

[WindwardAway]

WindwardAway + Ricochet

Nothing Night 0 because Rico had one post.

Weekend laze tis real and hit hard. I wanted nothing but study and sleep and cats and muvis tbh.

Hi ho.

Caught up to page 7 in the last hour. Gonna find another hour, later, to read the rest.

@Ricochet i know it's been a while since you last popped in, but when you catch up, I'd like to hear your take on the current wagons.

I'm curious what your thought process is, and tbh I keep forgetting you're in the game because I haven't seen anyone from West Facility mention having a read on you.

Why the double shoulder tap here?

What interests me is that WWA didn't do this to Nanook in this thread.

So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

And actually, the way Lemon said she expires D3/D4 made it sound more like she might die from a mechanical effect and not just because she might get lunched. I could be reading into it too much, though, and I know she can't confirm or deny it.

Big damn post here.

Only two folks commented on in the weakest way in response to RICO:

FALCON
LEMON

I'm going to pause right there because either that's a remarkable coincidence or it's not.

And [VOTE: WindwardAway] aubergine

I didn't do it to Nanook because he was in the East thread with me previously.
I don't have any excuses to the rest of it, though. You can lunch me today so that I'm out of the PoE, I'm ok with it.

[WindwardAway]

Here's my GTH ordering for each Facility.

Long Con
Sloonei
Epignosis
leetic
TonyStarkPrime
Delta
sig

WindwardAway
DrWilgy
nutella
Master Radishes
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Davos

LC's reads list before he died. MR was the lowest ranking player after NANOOK's death (unless Davos really is bad and killed LC?). Is that really a position worth killing over? It may have been that wolves considered LC the towniest remaining player from my side, as killing in their own side would be really bad for wolves numbers-wise even if they have a good shot of getting rid of the other team. But why over, say, me or Epi? Perhaps it is not in what LC got right, but in what we got wrong

What's different from your readlist, though? The mention of Davos?

[WindwardAway]

I still say yeet someone in East Facility, tbh
I don't really care if it's me cause I have a decreasing amount of time I can spend in the thread, so I don't think you'll miss out on much if I'm dead. At least you'd have my flip, and anyway I think we have a strong chance of winning. In hindsight, probably someone should've vigged Davos yesterday, but oh well.