Fallout New Vegas: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [LEGION CONQUEST]

[Jackofhearts2005]

How long are ya'll gonna act like you townread each other while still voting for each other?

You both suspect me. Just case me so I can tell you who is full of shit.

Lol someone's a little tense.

I already outlined why you're in my poe. It's nothing more than vote logic. I think generally you've been way too towny to actually get over in this gamestate and don't even care to really try while you're actually treating me in good faith.

Yeah but you never finished giving your vote logic.

Spoiler: show

Also, I am super tense. They're making me do actual work. I'm gonna leave how much this is a joke up in the air.

[Chelsea]

I think I've only written cases as mafia now that I think about it because they're so easy that people just say "wow that can't come from a wolf"

Regardless, I have no intent of doing such a thing it isn't my style. You're free to keep your vote if that is somehow the crux of your thinking. (it isn't)

[Chelsea]

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think I've only written cases as mafia now that I think about it because they're so easy that people just say "wow that can't come from a wolf"

Regardless, I have no intent of doing such a thing it isn't my style. You're free to keep your vote if that is somehow the crux of your thinking. (it isn't)

I just want you to do something so I can actually read you.

Like it's a naked vote on Mac, maybe Creature, maybe Tony, maybe Epi, well actually probably Jack but I'm not gonna say why cause cases are scummy.

I'm not voting for you cause I think you're mafia. I'm voting for you to make you do something (and also because the 5 vote Mac wagon with no cw was counterproductive).

It doesn't have to be a case. It doesn't have to be on me. I just can't tell what you're even doing.

[MacDougall]

How long are ya'll gonna act like you townread each other while still voting for each other?

You both suspect me. Just case me so I can tell you who is full of shit.

Lol someone's a little tense.

I already outlined why you're in my poe. It's nothing more than vote logic. I think generally you've been way too towny to actually get over in this gamestate and don't even care to really try while you're actually treating me in good faith.

Yeah but you never finished giving your vote logic.

Spoiler: show

Also, I am super tense. They're making me do actual work. I'm gonna leave how much this is a joke up in the air.

I don't really buy that you don't get it. But it's part of my basic mafia solving set to read wagons and when I see someone in a group of 3 like you were on day 1 and the other two are not mafia, the remaining slot generally turns out to be.

The underlying principle being that in that gamestate if you weren't the mafia already there, one of the actual mafia would have found it a comfort spot to put their vote.

This is a flawed albeit probabilistically accurate analysis. I know that it's flawed. But given that and just generally knowing how deep your bag is as mafia I can't reasonably remove you from my poe.

Which like... I obviously would if I was Mafia because keeping you in it is something of a death sentence given I'd need to Jackside to live.

I think at this juncture it would be very hard to find a Mac teammate but here I am still with 4 votes on me.

[Chelsea]

I think I've only written cases as mafia now that I think about it because they're so easy that people just say "wow that can't come from a wolf"

Regardless, I have no intent of doing such a thing it isn't my style. You're free to keep your vote if that is somehow the crux of your thinking. (it isn't)

I just want you to do something so I can actually read you.

Like it's a naked vote on Mac, maybe Creature, maybe Tony, maybe Epi, well actually probably Jack but I'm not gonna say why cause cases are scummy.

I'm not voting for you cause I think you're mafia. I'm voting for you to make you do something (and also because the 5 vote Mac wagon with no cw was counterproductive).

It doesn't have to be a case. It doesn't have to be on me. I just can't tell what you're even doing.

Then ask me things, if you're confused I am here to work with you and answer questions so that confusion is gone. I feel like I've stated why I have been and had voted people but if that isn't enough you're allowed to ya know, get more details. Voting me isn't gonna make me do more because vote pressure is so fake.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think I've only written cases as mafia now that I think about it because they're so easy that people just say "wow that can't come from a wolf"

Regardless, I have no intent of doing such a thing it isn't my style. You're free to keep your vote if that is somehow the crux of your thinking. (it isn't)

I just want you to do something so I can actually read you.

Like it's a naked vote on Mac, maybe Creature, maybe Tony, maybe Epi, well actually probably Jack but I'm not gonna say why cause cases are scummy.

I'm not voting for you cause I think you're mafia. I'm voting for you to make you do something (and also because the 5 vote Mac wagon with no cw was counterproductive).

It doesn't have to be a case. It doesn't have to be on me. I just can't tell what you're even doing.

Then ask me things, if you're confused I am here to work with you and answer questions so that confusion is gone. I feel like I've stated why I have been and had voted people but if that isn't enough you're allowed to ya know, get more details. Voting me isn't gonna make me do more because vote pressure is so fake.

Then give me details.

Why me? Why Tony? Why or why not Creature? (Gonna leave out Epi cause I know the answer to that.)

[MacDougall]

@Jackofhearts2005 you mentioned that you don't think Tony/me are w/w. Do you think TSP is plausibly a wolf if I'm town?

[Jackofhearts2005]

How long are ya'll gonna act like you townread each other while still voting for each other?

You both suspect me. Just case me so I can tell you who is full of shit.

Lol someone's a little tense.

I already outlined why you're in my poe. It's nothing more than vote logic. I think generally you've been way too towny to actually get over in this gamestate and don't even care to really try while you're actually treating me in good faith.

Yeah but you never finished giving your vote logic.

Spoiler: show

Also, I am super tense. They're making me do actual work. I'm gonna leave how much this is a joke up in the air.

I don't really buy that you don't get it. But it's part of my basic mafia solving set to read wagons and when I see someone in a group of 3 like you were on day 1 and the other two are not mafia, the remaining slot generally turns out to be.

The underlying principle being that in that gamestate if you weren't the mafia already there, one of the actual mafia would have found it a comfort spot to put their vote.

This is a flawed albeit probabilistically accurate analysis. I know that it's flawed. But given that and just generally knowing how deep your bag is as mafia I can't reasonably remove you from my poe.

Which like... I obviously would if I was Mafia because keeping you in it is something of a death sentence given I'd need to Jackside to live.

I think at this juncture it would be very hard to find a Mac teammate but here I am still with 4 votes on me.

Ya know, I can't believe it never occurred to me to like pretend to not understand things as a wolf just to troll people into reexplaining themselves over and over. That's a fun heel gimmick.

But seriously, I do kinda get what you're saying wrt mafia vote formation tendencies.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Jackofhearts2005 you mentioned that you don't think Tony/me are w/w. Do you think TSP is plausibly a wolf if I'm town?

I guess but my heart says no. I'd normally reevaluate a slot like that as the POE closes and for games with lots of null slots just lose to wolf Tony. Which is obviously not the best strategy but it's hard to go "what if I'm wrong about Tony?" without a case when Epi exists.

[Chelsea]

I think I've only written cases as mafia now that I think about it because they're so easy that people just say "wow that can't come from a wolf"

Regardless, I have no intent of doing such a thing it isn't my style. You're free to keep your vote if that is somehow the crux of your thinking. (it isn't)

I just want you to do something so I can actually read you.

Like it's a naked vote on Mac, maybe Creature, maybe Tony, maybe Epi, well actually probably Jack but I'm not gonna say why cause cases are scummy.

I'm not voting for you cause I think you're mafia. I'm voting for you to make you do something (and also because the 5 vote Mac wagon with no cw was counterproductive).

It doesn't have to be a case. It doesn't have to be on me. I just can't tell what you're even doing.

Then ask me things, if you're confused I am here to work with you and answer questions so that confusion is gone. I feel like I've stated why I have been and had voted people but if that isn't enough you're allowed to ya know, get more details. Voting me isn't gonna make me do more because vote pressure is so fake.

Then give me details.

Why me? Why Tony? Why or why not Creature? (Gonna leave out Epi cause I know the answer to that.)

For you: I think you've been objectively towny, your posting is good and you're very agreeable (charisma is a bigger factor in mafia than people think.) However, I think you fit in a lot of wolf worldviews, the Scotty NK is the NK I expect you as a wolf to make the most. If you are just voting me for pressure instead of. . .doing anything else really I don't understand why. Maybe I am making too many assumptions on people I find unlikely to be partners (Such as TSP/Creature) but you always seem to fit in that mafia slot, especially as a third. I think the best thing about you is your tone shifts to something really exciting in these random bursts that I find hard to fake as a wolf. Do I see you being voted today? No, but I am concerned.


Tony: hasn't done anything quite frankly. He comes in posts one line sentences, calls their vote serious or something along that, and then leaves. Considering someone Day 1 called this guy really easy to Meta cause of how hard they try? Not seeing it. Even if we ignore the meta thing I know for me all he's been doing is mainly voting me. I see no effort of real solving or any concern whatsoever. There's no nuance or any sense of critical thinking. The only reason I am not powershoving that vote down is if Creature is a wolf I don't think Tony is.

Creature: Ignoring that I don't think they're a wolf with Tony, either Creature is just snowing me and my reads are really bad, or my reads are good and Creature is in the same boat as me. Ironic as it is, that makes me want to flip them to see if I'm right. But, I disagree that Creature's Day 1 is bad, I think he's overall defeatist energy is what I expect from a !town Creature worldview. What would Creature mafia be doing? Nothing? I don't see how he's advancing the game state in a bad way. Am I missing something? Please tell me.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm not agreeable you take that back!

[Jackofhearts2005]

Is it insane that I'm having the thought "I don't think Tony is mafia but ya know, he could be 3P?" I cannot tell you why I think that and I'm the type of player who can explain why he thinks what he thinks 99.9% of the time.

[Chelsea]

I'm not agreeable you take that back!

no ^^

[Jackofhearts2005]

Probably something to do with being a LMS necessarily makes your agenda like surviving above all else and that's a different type of agenda than wolf agenda. Like I don't see Tony making calculations, trying to steer the wagon and come up with a wolf win. But I could see him just being like "Keep faking it. Don't get yeeted. Try to win later."

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think I've only written cases as mafia now that I think about it because they're so easy that people just say "wow that can't come from a wolf"

Regardless, I have no intent of doing such a thing it isn't my style. You're free to keep your vote if that is somehow the crux of your thinking. (it isn't)

I just want you to do something so I can actually read you.

Like it's a naked vote on Mac, maybe Creature, maybe Tony, maybe Epi, well actually probably Jack but I'm not gonna say why cause cases are scummy.

I'm not voting for you cause I think you're mafia. I'm voting for you to make you do something (and also because the 5 vote Mac wagon with no cw was counterproductive).

It doesn't have to be a case. It doesn't have to be on me. I just can't tell what you're even doing.

Then ask me things, if you're confused I am here to work with you and answer questions so that confusion is gone. I feel like I've stated why I have been and had voted people but if that isn't enough you're allowed to ya know, get more details. Voting me isn't gonna make me do more because vote pressure is so fake.

Then give me details.

Why me? Why Tony? Why or why not Creature? (Gonna leave out Epi cause I know the answer to that.)

For you: I think you've been objectively towny, your posting is good and you're very agreeable (charisma is a bigger factor in mafia than people think.) However, I think you fit in a lot of wolf worldviews, the Scotty NK is the NK I expect you as a wolf to make the most. If you are just voting me for pressure instead of. . .doing anything else really I don't understand why. Maybe I am making too many assumptions on people I find unlikely to be partners (Such as TSP/Creature) but you always seem to fit in that mafia slot, especially as a third. I think the best thing about you is your tone shifts to something really exciting in these random bursts that I find hard to fake as a wolf. Do I see you being voted today? No, but I am concerned.


Tony: hasn't done anything quite frankly. He comes in posts one line sentences, calls their vote serious or something along that, and then leaves. Considering someone Day 1 called this guy really easy to Meta cause of how hard they try? Not seeing it. Even if we ignore the meta thing I know for me all he's been doing is mainly voting me. I see no effort of real solving or any concern whatsoever. There's no nuance or any sense of critical thinking. The only reason I am not powershoving that vote down is if Creature is a wolf I don't think Tony is.

Creature: Ignoring that I don't think they're a wolf with Tony, either Creature is just snowing me and my reads are really bad, or my reads are good and Creature is in the same boat as me. Ironic as it is, that makes me want to flip them to see if I'm right. But, I disagree that Creature's Day 1 is bad, I think he's overall defeatist energy is what I expect from a !town Creature worldview. What would Creature mafia be doing? Nothing? I don't see how he's advancing the game state in a bad way. Am I missing something? Please tell me.

Ftr, I have Creature down as not being defeatist enough. Mulling the rest of this over.

[Manny]

I wanna yeet someone in Epi, TSP and Creature.
Not sure which of the 3, Epi has i think the least chances of flipping town, but i think TSP and Creature are more likely to flip wolf than Epi is, TSP Wolf worlds leave me with Jack or Mac as partner i think?, Creature wolf is prolly a sign of Chelsea!w worlds.

I dont wanna flip Jack, Lan or Dunn today.
Flipping Brad before flipping Chelsea just feels ev-
and i dont wanna resolve mac / chelsea on whats potentially mylo

[Manny]

ig i should go iso falcon for spew, atleast on d1

[MacDougall]

Why are you still townreading Brad? @Chelsea

He has hardly posted a thing in 2 days. The only memorable things he's done in this game are omgus Seanzie and try to policy vote him, shield you and be shielded by you.

Brad 100% would have done all these things as mafia. Why are you so certain he's town?

[Manny]

ig i should go iso falcon for spew, atleast on d1

well that got me nothing except re-enforcing my tr on dunn, cool ig.

[Manny]

I kinda wanna call Brad outted for not knowing that we had yeeted two PR's but i dunno if thats outting or actually clearing.

[MacDougall]

Between you, Jack and TSP there is way way too much of that type of posting. Cease and desist the hedgy shit it's giving me a migraine.

[Lime Coke]

I don't have as much time as I want because stuff around the house is killing me this week.

Before that I was multitabbed with Variance's game on MU and put way more focus on that.

Plus I'm sort of fatigued with catch up reading constantly legit going for these many games in a row was a bad idea.

[Lime Coke]

I'm basically Chelsea's double voter until further notice.

[Lime Coke]

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

[Lime Coke]

Like sorry my participation has been awful.

I did what I could past trying to hard shield Chelsea my push was on Nanook and that went to hell.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Epi pls

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think I've only written cases as mafia now that I think about it because they're so easy that people just say "wow that can't come from a wolf"

Regardless, I have no intent of doing such a thing it isn't my style. You're free to keep your vote if that is somehow the crux of your thinking. (it isn't)

I just want you to do something so I can actually read you.

Like it's a naked vote on Mac, maybe Creature, maybe Tony, maybe Epi, well actually probably Jack but I'm not gonna say why cause cases are scummy.

I'm not voting for you cause I think you're mafia. I'm voting for you to make you do something (and also because the 5 vote Mac wagon with no cw was counterproductive).

It doesn't have to be a case. It doesn't have to be on me. I just can't tell what you're even doing.

Then ask me things, if you're confused I am here to work with you and answer questions so that confusion is gone. I feel like I've stated why I have been and had voted people but if that isn't enough you're allowed to ya know, get more details. Voting me isn't gonna make me do more because vote pressure is so fake.

Then give me details.

Why me? Why Tony? Why or why not Creature? (Gonna leave out Epi cause I know the answer to that.)

For you: I think you've been objectively towny, your posting is good and you're very agreeable (charisma is a bigger factor in mafia than people think.) However, I think you fit in a lot of wolf worldviews, the Scotty NK is the NK I expect you as a wolf to make the most. If you are just voting me for pressure instead of. . .doing anything else really I don't understand why. Maybe I am making too many assumptions on people I find unlikely to be partners (Such as TSP/Creature) but you always seem to fit in that mafia slot, especially as a third. I think the best thing about you is your tone shifts to something really exciting in these random bursts that I find hard to fake as a wolf. Do I see you being voted today? No, but I am concerned.


Tony: hasn't done anything quite frankly. He comes in posts one line sentences, calls their vote serious or something along that, and then leaves. Considering someone Day 1 called this guy really easy to Meta cause of how hard they try? Not seeing it. Even if we ignore the meta thing I know for me all he's been doing is mainly voting me. I see no effort of real solving or any concern whatsoever. There's no nuance or any sense of critical thinking. The only reason I am not powershoving that vote down is if Creature is a wolf I don't think Tony is.

Creature: Ignoring that I don't think they're a wolf with Tony, either Creature is just snowing me and my reads are really bad, or my reads are good and Creature is in the same boat as me. Ironic as it is, that makes me want to flip them to see if I'm right. But, I disagree that Creature's Day 1 is bad, I think he's overall defeatist energy is what I expect from a !town Creature worldview. What would Creature mafia be doing? Nothing? I don't see how he's advancing the game state in a bad way. Am I missing something? Please tell me.

Where’s doomer Creature now?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Glad to see that the game slows down dramatically once it goes from clear wagons to clusterfuck

[Dunnstral]

Abi and Seanzie townread me. Scotty was working amicably with me. LC I am fairly sure townread me but without stating as much. Michelle pressure voted me but really didn't suspect me.

Meanwhile all game long I've had Creature, Chelsea, Brad, Manny and Lanmisa threatening me existentially at all times and they're all still alive.

There's not a single reasonable argument that I am mafia aside from paranoia.

Seanzie was a pr kill. We know mafia rolecopped there now. Scotty called you mafia before they died. (And may have been a 3p kill anyway from a town perspective). Abigail was my top townread alongside Michelle and both of those kills make sense. You wouldn't be the only person on your team anyway, not every kill needs to center around you. Obviously town plus potentially threatening an ally is enough. All the names mentioned threatening you except Lanmisa can be seen as potential miseliminations from a mafia perspective.

Yeah, it stands to reason that Scotty was the 3P kill according to Long Con's flip.

Are you purely voting Mac out of flips/NAs though?

No that isn't why

Let me amend my opinion on Manny a bit. It is still possible that they are third party. The poisoner role has the same ability as the town role, and it is possible that this was their fake claim. My consideration here is that their claim was a result of thinking they were a possible elimination target. I still don't think Manny is a member of the mafia, but Manny has been hanging back enough and wasn't the one who made the initial push on Falcon, and I think they could be a third party.

Here is what I am thinking right now:

Chelsea - Town
LanMisa - Town
Lime Coke - Town
Jackofhearts2005 - Town

Manny - Town/3p
Creature - Town/3p

Epignosis - Town/Mafia/3p

MacDougall - Mafia
TonyStarkPrime - Mafia


Those listed as just town I have reasons for believing they're not mafia, and I think they're playing a bit too forward to be a third party. The third party roles in this game have weak protective abilities for themselves; either one-shot commute, show as vanilla to role cops, or night 1 bulletproof, and as the only member of the faction they don't want to make themselves kill targets for the mafia. For those listed as Town/3p, I have reasons to believe they are not aligned with the mafia, but still think they could be a third party. Epignosis is a big unknown; I do acknowledge they are currently voting for MacDougall, and I have bigger reasons to suspect other people. Those I listed as just Mafia I believe have associations that point towards them being a part of the mafia team.

I am open to counter arguments here.

Okay, can you give me some of your thoughts on Chelsea and Lime? Their interactions were a huge talking point on D2. I assume you believe Lime's read on Chelsea is genuine I assume?

Also, as I stated earlier the 3P had the Courier as a partner. While we don't know what that entails in its entirety do you think this weakens the "no protection" aspect of what you described earlier about 3Ps in this game or does your stance stay the same regardless?

I am readying them separately here, not in relation to Lime Coke's read on Chelsea. I have liked Lime Coke's posts this game and don't think they fit as third party either. I talk about Chelsea later.

[Dunnstral]

LanMisa, Lime Coke and Manny are my townreads

like what would be the reason for Manny to out falcon like that even if that happened only one day later?

Kinda tempted to townread Chelsea too, but that's more circumstantial

Maybe Dunnstral too, but that'd be assuming all wolves are wolfsiding and there's not one wolf pretending to townside

atm I am ignoring SK

You don't seem to be reading my posts since I've asked you something. What that in mind I don't know what you are basing this off of.

[Dunnstral]

OK, so Lamisa thinks Macdougall is town. I would likely look at TonyStarkPrime next. If I am reevaluating then Creature is showing signs that they perhaps don't believe what they are saying.

I am not excited to vote for Jack as I did like their posts on the last game day

[Creature]

Why did we drop the Mac wagon?

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[TonyStarkPrime]

Why did we drop the Mac wagon?

Good question, answered in thread by about as much as “why do we have a Mac wagon”

[Lime Coke]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[Creature]

Why did we drop the Mac wagon?

Good question, answered in thread by about as much as “why do we have a Mac wagon”

Pretty sure I already answered why I am voting Mac

[Lime Coke]

Oh hay Creature.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Why did we drop the Mac wagon?

Good question, answered in thread by about as much as “why do we have a Mac wagon”

Pretty sure I already answered why I am voting Mac

Eh 1) non-contradictory and 2) did you though

[TonyStarkPrime]

Like “Mac/TSP are heavily wolf siding” is a sorta weird statement which is tautologically true if we’re wolves and I think cannot possibly be true if we aren’t (unless the wolves are like Brad and Lan but in that case hands up idk)

[TonyStarkPrime]

So like “I’m voting Mac because he’s a wolf” which actually that’s all the justification you need but I’m not going to act like I think it’s right

[TonyStarkPrime]

Also like not like we’re to blame for the day 3 chop but I genuinely don’t understand the position at all, Mac isn’t even pushing your townreads (except of course implicitly you)

[TonyStarkPrime]

It just really doesn't make sense to me. Mac didn't push for the first two day chops. I sure as hell didn't. How are we the wolf-siders? Not saying that clears Mac or anything but if Mac is a wolf he's the counter-voice to the previously-wolf-siding faction. Doesn't make sense to say Mac is wolfsiding unless you think his partner is like Epi I guess but I think Mac/Epi cleared themselves from being a team but actually man I do have enough respect for their wolf games to have pulled that shit but

[TonyStarkPrime]

And I know I'm harping on this but it's not really like there's any reason to do otherwise given that there's not a lot else to really talk about cause we've basically just reset the game going into today which maybe actually we don't need to because we have a falcon ISO to read and as far as I can tell no one has done that yet

[TonyStarkPrime]

i sure as hell don't intend to do so

[Dunnstral]

LanMisa, Lime Coke and Manny are my townreads

I mean, like, if Manny is a wolf that means they tracked/watched/whatever falcon45ca to Seanzie and decided to out it in thread, then kill Seanzie and incriminate falcon45ca the next day?

Also I believe LanMisa and Lime Coke are pretty out of their wolf ranges. Does anyone disagree with this?

I don't know what to make of this. This is true but has been pointed out multiple times at this point.

And Creature made another reply right after I said they were ignoring my posts where they ignored those posts too.

But not sure if this is scummy or they're just not paying any attention at all.

[Dunnstral]

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

[Lime Coke]

[VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine lel