Fallout New Vegas: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [LEGION CONQUEST]

[Manny]

Also, due to the setup I expect no locked votes in LYLO either, since normally you can never be sure WHETHER you are in LYLO or not. That means my voting sucks hard here.

isnt the minimum amount of wolves 3 aka tomorrow will be lylo yes or yes from what i know

[Chelsea]

Btw Manny you should know if me and Brad were wolf partners there is no way wolf Brad like

2 posts the past few phases he wouldn't do that to me he'd be out here trying to top post then going to wolf chat like "Hey Chels are you proud of me"

And I'd say yes <3

There's always a first time for everything, but I agree that this is an unlikely pairing.

Why aren't you trying to convince either me or Brad.

The worldview you are presenting is 1 of us is hard snowing each other you should be like, presenting so much evidence right now to each of us saying "hey why do you TR the other etc."

Because what you've shown the game is: 1 lock TR 1 mech clear 1 obv wolf (Jack) and 1 pair that hard TR each other but 1 is a wolf.

If I were you in this world I would be drilling them to hell and back.

[Manny]

sig
7
33%
Voters: Dunnstral, Michelle, Seanzie, Scotty, Lime Coke, ☆Princess Abigail☆, LanMisa

Dunn/Brad still alive

Chelsea
3
15%
Voters: Seanzie, TonyStarkPrime, MacDougall
Creature
0
No votes
Voters: None
DarlingMonroe / NANOOK
5
25%
Voters: LanMisa, Epignosis, Lime Coke, Creature, Chelsea
Dunnstral

Brad/Chels still alive

Chels being kinda the CW two days, i'd kill to have TMI on chels allignment rn ngl

[Chelsea]

2 posts the past few phases he wouldn't do that to me he'd be out here trying to top post then going to wolf chat like "Hey Chels are you proud of me"

He seems to be doing fine on the surviving department so u'd be proud of him regardless, im not buying this.
And the other reason i want to sleep is because there is literally 0 worlds in which v!Brad and v!Chels remain alive till f5 lylo while shielding each other, thats just not a thing if you two are alive tomorrow and i get nk'd with sleep u should just cross

I cannot wait to snap vote you when you magically live tomorrow

[Manny]

Atleast in agree with Chelsea on the fact that im not voting Brad today :^)

[Chelsea]

You are either high or a wolf because there's no way you believe half the stuff you're tying rn

[Manny]

I cannot wait to snap vote you when you magically live tomorrow

I have no reason to push for sleep atm as wolf unless you think im exactly a wolf with LanMisa
because if im a wolf and LanMisa isnt i can get a town yeeted pretty easily and win lol.

[LanMisa]

Also, due to the setup I expect no locked votes in LYLO either, since normally you can never be sure WHETHER you are in LYLO or not. That means my voting sucks hard here.

isnt the minimum amount of wolves 3 aka tomorrow will be lylo yes or yes from what i know

It will be but the setup rules clearly state that votes can be changed freely. There's nothing about locked votes. Considering that this game also has no early yeets as well regardless of wagons I am very certain this also applies in LYLO.

What I meant earlier though is that considering the wolf numbers are unknown (well, they are known NOW) you can't usually lock votes in a LYLO situation with 3Ps around. Otherwise you'd give that piece of information away.

[Manny]

I have no reason to push for sleep atm as wolf unless you think im exactly a wolf with LanMisa

but if you think LanMisa is a wolf the one thats high or outted is u, not me
[this will be funny if lan ends up being a wolf but it is what it is]

[Chelsea]

I cannot wait to snap vote you when you magically live tomorrow

I have no reason to push for sleep atm as wolf unless you think im exactly a wolf with LanMisa
because if im a wolf and LanMisa isnt i can get a town yeeted pretty easily and win lol.

Who are you convincing? Right now Lan is pushing Jack so it'd have to be Dunn/Brad

Brad will vote with me if they're a villager because he said he is
Dunn will at least hear everyone out and will make his own choices

You're just making up a narrative that has no backing right now like if you're a villager set down the ego.

[Manny]

The worst world is prolly sleeping into Chelsea/Jack team with a LanMisa nk
because then i'd depend on v!Brad actually voting w!Chelsea and idk if thats a real thing that can happen this game.

[Chelsea]

Idk we're never gonna get through this phase if the both of you just keep going "trust" with your reads. The lack of reconsideration is staggering to me is this a site culture thing?

[LanMisa]

Btw Manny you should know if me and Brad were wolf partners there is no way wolf Brad like

2 posts the past few phases he wouldn't do that to me he'd be out here trying to top post then going to wolf chat like "Hey Chels are you proud of me"

And I'd say yes <3

There's always a first time for everything, but I agree that this is an unlikely pairing.

Why aren't you trying to convince either me or Brad.

The worldview you are presenting is 1 of us is hard snowing each other you should be like, presenting so much evidence right now to each of us saying "hey why do you TR the other etc."

Because what you've shown the game is: 1 lock TR 1 mech clear 1 obv wolf (Jack) and 1 pair that hard TR each other but 1 is a wolf.

If I were you in this world I would be drilling them to hell and back.

I'm still sick and limited and this is not a "today" issue. I'll get back to that in F4.

Regardless of who of you is a wolf Jack has to be one as well so my path for now is rather straightforward: Kill the certain wolf, see how others (including his partner) react to that, kill the other wolf. If there's a "sleep" in-between I am okay with that but that's my road here.

[Manny]

Who are you convincing? Right now Lan is pushing Jack so it'd have to be Dunn/Brad

I am talking from the POV of me being a wolf, if i was a wolf i'd have two votes guaranteed mine and my partner's, add in Lan and thats 3 votes enough to get anyone killed.
actually its a tie but i dunno what happens in ties.

As town i dont have nearly as much pull and u are right on that

[LanMisa]

Idk we're never gonna get through this phase if the both of you just keep going "trust" with your reads. The lack of reconsideration is staggering to me is this a site culture thing?

Are you talking to an MUer (myself) about site culture on the Syndicate?

I just have an extremely good track record on Manny and that doesn't disappear just because the site may not be my normal one.

[Manny]

Idk we're never gonna get through this phase if the both of you just keep going "trust" with your reads. The lack of reconsideration is staggering to me is this a site culture thing?

You literally have been locked on Brad town all game, there is no shot u can pull the "no reconsideration" card here lmfao.

[Chelsea]

Idk we're never gonna get through this phase if the both of you just keep going "trust" with your reads. The lack of reconsideration is staggering to me is this a site culture thing?

You literally have been locked on Brad town all game, there is no shot u can pull the "no reconsideration" card here lmfao.

I've literally openly said I am not locked on town Brad multiple times this game gtfo

[Manny]

I've literally openly said I am not locked on town Brad multiple times this game gtfo

words dont mean nothing, actions do.
u havent even come close to voting him and u've been steadfast on thinking he's rand!v. u might've said u aren ot locked on it but u might aswell be.

[Manny]

I mean we can just resolve this today, idm thunderdoming u, if we are v/v game is prolly fucked either way.

[LanMisa]

Idk we're never gonna get through this phase if the both of you just keep going "trust" with your reads. The lack of reconsideration is staggering to me is this a site culture thing?

You literally have been locked on Brad town all game, there is no shot u can pull the "no reconsideration" card here lmfao.

I have a question for you, Chelsea:

D1 Brad had nothing but a few players Brad read town, no wolf reads, mostly meandered around. I already commented on that D1.
D2 Brad went into hyper "Chelsea town" mode and did nothing much but ask to be killed (which got people off of killing him) and OMGUSing people pushing you or him.
I don't remember ANYTHING Brad did since then. Admittedly our in-thread times don't overlap much, but still.

So why is Brad the hill you are willing to die on?

[Manny]

[VOTE: Chelsea] aubergine

If its Jack/Dunn then rip.

[LanMisa]

Like, I have pointed at multiple great analytical posts from Dunnstral every single phase pointing out their solving and their approach to the game. Look it up if you want to. Dunn just bleds town to me.

I've talked several times about why I think Manny is town here. I had a PR read since D1 on Manny, his claim makes zero sense as a wolf, his whole D3 was towny and I feel like his approach to today makes perfect sense coming from town!Manny and not at all from wolf!Manny who could just bulldoze through a misyeet here as wolf.

I'm not clearing players in this situation lightly.

[Chelsea]

I've literally openly said I am not locked on town Brad multiple times this game gtfo

words dont mean nothing, actions do.
u havent even come close to voting him and u've been steadfast on thinking he's rand!v. u might've said u aren ot locked on it but u might aswell be.

Quit moving the goalpost to try and fit your narrative adding an "okay but-" to the end of your statements doesn't make you look at better. Just because I've attempted to reconsider and came to a "i still believe in my original read" is entirely different than what you're trying to present.

I've said multiple times "What am I missing?" "What is Brad missing?" I've given multiple opportunities to not just you anyone to point out where exactly we are getting snowed from either POV because I wanted to see the reasoning behind the statement and the closest we got (and even this is generous) is saying "Brad is not out his wolf meta and Chels likes to pocket"

What exactly are you expecting to happen when you both you and Lan are in f6 saying "trust" on your read on each other while providing no reason to believe in that trust. Every single wagon has been on a villager. Let me repeat that:

Every single wagon has been on a villager falcon was only outted due to a result. There is no way you should come in f6 and still throw your hands up and go with the reads you've had all game. Especially when you're not giving reasons to outside sources.

This game is still winnable but if there is no effort to work together then what's the point? It should from a state of being together and if it's wrong so be it not a state of wait until DL to compromise like it's gonna be.

[Chelsea]

I mean we can just resolve this today, idm thunderdoming u, if we are v/v game is prolly fucked either way.

I'm not mad I'm just disappointed

[Manny]

What exactly are you expecting to happen when you both you and Lan are in f6 saying "trust" on your read on each other while providing no reason to believe in that trust. Every single wagon has been on a villager. Let me repeat that:

I have not missread Lan since we started playing together, i believe he is out of wolfrange, i have literally no reason to doubt thats the case and i have seen no reason given to make me doubt it.
I dont know what meta u have for brad but aside from exactly d1/d2 he has been rand!w the rest of the game by virtue of not doing much at all.

[LanMisa]

[VOTE: Chelsea] aubergine

If its Jack/Dunn then rip.

Here's something to keep in mind: wolves have a role that decides which player wins or loses in case of an EOD tie. That role hasn't flipped yet.

If we want to eliminate a player before that role flips the wagon needs to be decisive.

And I still think that Lime may very well be the wolf over Chelsea.

[Manny]

And I still think that Lime may very well be the wolf over Chelsea.

I refuse to believe in a world of w!Brad snowing v!Chelsea like this, if Brad's a wolf so is Chelsea.
This might be reductive but i cant really see it happening.

Also great cant even tie lmao.

[LanMisa]

I still want to go Jack here first and then go from there. But due to the above I'd want the others to chime in as well, especially Dunnstral once they get back eventually.

[Chelsea]

Idk we're never gonna get through this phase if the both of you just keep going "trust" with your reads. The lack of reconsideration is staggering to me is this a site culture thing?

You literally have been locked on Brad town all game, there is no shot u can pull the "no reconsideration" card here lmfao.

I have a question for you, Chelsea:

D1 Brad had nothing but a few players Brad read town, no wolf reads, mostly meandered around. I already commented on that D1.
D2 Brad went into hyper "Chelsea town" mode and did nothing much but ask to be killed (which got people off of killing him) and OMGUSing people pushing you or him.
I don't remember ANYTHING Brad did since then. Admittedly our in-thread times don't overlap much, but still.

So why is Brad the hill you are willing to die on?

Brad went at Sen hard and then basically asked people to get rid of him, yes. I've never seen him do this as a wolf, but I'm not gonna act like he can't. I think his reaction to his dislike of Sen is NAI.

I think Wolf Brad comes in, plays the game a bit more and doesn't have this just overall defeated attitude in his posting because if he is a wolf, he's winning right now he doesn't need to do any of that. If Brad continues to sit here and do nothing I will be voting him on principle because he deserves it. He knows that, I know that. He can come in and solve more than just the posts he's made.

What makes his actions so extremely wolfy to you? Who is the snow getting snowed here? I get you want Jack dead but you can come to an answer on who is the more likely one fooling the other between the two of us we've had many phases to do it.

[Manny]

I kinda wanna want it to be me vs chelsea just to see what Brad does.

[LanMisa]

I kinda wanna want it to be me vs chelsea just to see what Brad does.

If you want to gouge for reactions my tip would be not to announce that you gouge for reactions.

[Chelsea]

What exactly are you expecting to happen when you both you and Lan are in f6 saying "trust" on your read on each other while providing no reason to believe in that trust. Every single wagon has been on a villager. Let me repeat that:

I have not missread Lan since we started playing together, i believe he is out of wolfrange, i have literally no reason to doubt thats the case and i have seen no reason given to make me doubt it.
I dont know what meta u have for brad but aside from exactly d1/d2 he has been rand!w the rest of the game by virtue of not doing much at all.

And I haven't misread Brad.

See where we're at here?

You're not reading my posts in good faith (or at all quite frankly)

[Manny]

And I haven't misread Brad.

Im not the one that is locked on there being a wolf in a pair of two [as in i can see worlds of u/brad being v/v... atleast today] unlike you that seems to believe there has to be one in lan and me.

[Chelsea]

And I haven't misread Brad.

Im not the one that is locked on there being a wolf in a pair of two [as in i can see worlds of u/brad being v/v... atleast today] unlike you that seems to believe there has to be one in lan and me.

Point to where I said this

Hint I didn't

[Manny]

So I should just solve in the mindset one of you two are a wolf if we're never gonna come to an agreement in that case.

.

[Chelsea]

It feels like you're both being impossible to work with atm for no reason other than stubbornness.

Lan's Buzzwordsoup locktownread on Dunn doesn't help me.

"I've never been wrong on each other" townread doesn't help me.

If this is 3 villagers I am basically being forced into "Vote Brad because we say or lose"

boy what a fun endgame.

[Chelsea]

So I should just solve in the mindset one of you two are a wolf if we're never gonna come to an agreement in that case.

.

Irony through text is hard to read I'll take the L on that shame on me for a joke.

[Manny]

If this is 3 villagers I am basically being forced into "Vote Brad because we say or lose"

how is this a "vote brad or lose" case
when i literally have stated multiple times I DONT WANT TO VOTE BRAD TODAY

[LanMisa]

Idk we're never gonna get through this phase if the both of you just keep going "trust" with your reads. The lack of reconsideration is staggering to me is this a site culture thing?

You literally have been locked on Brad town all game, there is no shot u can pull the "no reconsideration" card here lmfao.

I have a question for you, Chelsea:

D1 Brad had nothing but a few players Brad read town, no wolf reads, mostly meandered around. I already commented on that D1.
D2 Brad went into hyper "Chelsea town" mode and did nothing much but ask to be killed (which got people off of killing him) and OMGUSing people pushing you or him.
I don't remember ANYTHING Brad did since then. Admittedly our in-thread times don't overlap much, but still.

So why is Brad the hill you are willing to die on?

Brad went at Sen hard and then basically asked people to get rid of him, yes. I've never seen him do this as a wolf, but I'm not gonna act like he can't. I think his reaction to his dislike of Sen is NAI.

I think Wolf Brad comes in, plays the game a bit more and doesn't have this just overall defeated attitude in his posting because if he is a wolf, he's winning right now he doesn't need to do any of that. If Brad continues to sit here and do nothing I will be voting him on principle because he deserves it. He knows that, I know that. He can come in and solve more than just the posts he's made.

What makes his actions so extremely wolfy to you? Who is the snow getting snowed here? I get you want Jack dead but you can come to an answer on who is the more likely one fooling the other between the two of us we've had many phases to do it.

I don't know how good Brad can wolf but I've shown the most defeatist-ed attitudes as a winning wolf in the past before. Makes others ignore your non-posting. Admittedly, me going long enough in a game that allows for that has been QUITE a while ago (It happened exactly twice: Halloween Anonymous 2019 and Sports Mash 2018) but that's easy enough. Talking about defeatist attitudes though... being in a 3 wolf 2 3P game with only one extra KP could make a player, especially a worse wolf, feel defeatist - especially with a partner like Falcon who's a low-show POE wolf from D2 on, so.. that may match the D2 emotions.

I agree that the Sean thing was personal and had nothing to do with the current game.

Looking at the game right now I feel it likelier for Brad to be the wolf than for you to be one but I always read "solving and making reads/stances" as townier than "disappearing and one-noting". But it's F6 and as you said yourself, this IS the time to re-evaluate.

[Chelsea]

I'm not living in a world where I am lock town on Brad

I'm living in a world where I want you to explain yourself in a way that isn't "I'VE NEVER BEEN WRONG AND I'M NOT GONNA START CHANGING NOW"

because that doesn't work in f6.

[Manny]

My vote today is gonna end up in one of Chels/Dunn/Jack

Probably not Dunn by virtue of Lan being locked on them being town and the need to stack so, if you are villa chelsea there out here is Jack not Brad

[LanMisa]

It feels like you're both being impossible to work with atm for no reason other than stubbornness.

Lan's Buzzwordsoup locktownread on Dunn doesn't help me.

"I've never been wrong on each other" townread doesn't help me.

If this is 3 villagers I am basically being forced into "Vote Brad because we say or lose"

boy what a fun endgame.

Chelsea, if we are three villagers and if you are as well then YES, you ARE forced to vote Brad at some point since that's four villagers not counting Brad and Jack.

I mean, we could always just throw the game and yeet another town instead to round this out properly. My win % is garbage tier anyways.

[Manny]

I'm living in a world where I want you to explain yourself in a way that isn't "I'VE NEVER BEEN WRONG AND I'M NOT GONNA START CHANGING NOW"

Do you want me to towncase Lan to make u get the read? because that i can do... probably
but me changing my read is not a thing that is happening today so it feels pointless to a degree, i think Lan has already explained their townread on me pretty well though.

[Chelsea]

Like the main reason I want to force sleep is so Manny dies because I think Dunn/Lan is a very easy and possible solve and right now we just lose to that because Manny is refusing to do anything but Thunderdome for the sake of his ego in that world.

Am I sold on that world? No, I've tried to reset my reads because I know my reads have been bad this game considering I had everyone here as a villager for most of the game minus Jack.

I'm not discrediting your reads on each other because obviously I get being in that world where you don't want to move cause you TR them but that's not gonna work for me. You need to explain to me more why I should be TRing you or voting Brad.

[Chelsea]

[VOTE: Sleep] aubergine

[Manny]

Like the main reason I want to force sleep is so Manny dies because I think Dunn/Lan is a very easy and possible solve and right now we just lose to that because Manny is refusing to do anything but Thunderdome for the sake of his ego in that world.

Ego has little to do with why i want you dead, u just have the most chances of being a wolf from my POV

Lan is town

leaves me with Chelsea/Brad/Jack/Dunn

Brad imo can only be a wolf with you

Chelsea/Brad
Chelsea/Jack
Chelsea/Dunn
Dunn/Jack

thats 3 teams with you, two with jack and one with brad/dunn.

[LanMisa]

I feel like right now we keep doing in circles without anything productive coming from it.

I also want to rest a bit more and I definitely need to prepare lessons for tomorrow's classes.

Fun fact: A lot of our teachers got sick so now I (also sick but not on sick leave) got extra work. Fun times.

I want to wait and see what the others have to say. I especially want to weigh in on what Dunn has to say about the situation.

Again, reminder that we A) have a wolf role who decides tied flips and B) nothing in the rules says anything about locked votes in LYLO, so we need to think hard about whether or not we yeet or sleep today, and whom to yeet in the latter case.

[LanMisa]

Funnily enough, the "decide the tie" vote also means that if we DO get a tie and a wolf flips the game is mechanically on auto.

I'd advise against that strategy since that would require us to exactly same-wagon both wolves, with us losing in every other scenario.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like the worldview the two of you are presenting is that Jack is a wolf and I'm getting smoked by Brad basically.

And I don't think that's happening.

Clearly you don't think you're getting smoked either.

So I should just solve in the mindset one of you two are a wolf if we're never gonna come to an agreement in that case.

Lan would never vote Dunn
I don't see myself voting Brad

Explain to me why you’re so sure Brad is town. Is Mac’s meta on Lime just wrong?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Sorry for being late to the party, I'm still trying to recover from my sickness with school re-starting tomorrow and me not wanting to take off a day for that.

Looked at the flips and nothing else yet. Here's my thoughts on the current status quo:

1) Sleeping does nothing for us here. With an alive PR in Manny the NK will change nothing about our current situation and with votes not being locked it just removes one more town vote on our side.
2) I stand by Manny being mech clear (see above). I have no idea why Mafia killed Mac over Manny but with both 3Ps revealed and my point of Manny's reveal on Falcon being mega towny still standing there's nothing to doubt about it left.
3) I also strongly believe that Dunn has, by far, shown the towniest approach to the game by FAR. I'm not going to waver on that read - I am not THAT bad at finding town as to err that much, not even with a headache and reduced energy.

Ergo, the last wolves are among Chelsea, Lime and Jack.

4) I...find it hard to believe Chelsea and Lime would act the way they did as a wolf pair, considering how extremely partnered they'd be from basically Day 1. I'm not saying it's impossible but Lime putting Chelsea on the spot as Lime did makes zero sense to me, please correct me if I'm wrong here or if you've seen Lime do something like that in the past before. I am currently debating between
4a) Wolf Lime hard shielded/TMI'd Chelsea at the beginning of the game, then couldn't backtrack from this read and doubled down on it, potentially to frame Chelsea as a partner if they were ever to go down. This WOULD align with Lime's D2 of semi self sacrifice - tie another town player to yourself to buy wolves another day and a free lunch.
4b) Wolf Chelsea just ran with her free town shield Lime for all the game, laid low, helped kill villagers at time (if I remember Mac's posts correctly) and just lived out the aggro from Mac knowing he'd die for it eventually. It left her in a spot where she could survive for phases without anyone questioning her survival, without her becoming a 3P target either.

I'm not sold on which of these two worlds we live in yet though. It leads me to my last conclusion though:

5) Since I don't think Chelsea and Lime are paired it more or less outs Jack as the second remaining Mafia.

[VOTE: Jackofhearts] aubergine

This is like not that far from my worldview but just with you and me flipped.

That said, pretty fucking weird you’ve got a scumread on my poe but have reasoned yourself into voting me instead.