Kagemusha (ENDGAME)

[Long Con]

I'm voting falcon again. [VOTE: falcon] aubergine

If I have to vote somewhere else because the sky is falling, I'll be here.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: lorab] aubergine @LoRab If you're town, come help us solve

Is this Town falcon, trying to sort players on this do-or-die Day?

I did think he showed some urgency in his other posts. You could argue the vote lacks urgency though, sure.

Tony said earlier that he refused to vote falcon. I think LoRab is probably the only viable alternative under the circumstances unless he changes his mind about that.

Jesus, ok, then I'll vote Lorab so that option is apparent. You still think it's Epi?

[Long Con]

[VOTE: Lorab] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: lorab] aubergine @LoRab If you're town, come help us solve

Is this Town falcon, trying to sort players on this do-or-die Day?

I did think he showed some urgency in his other posts. You could argue the vote lacks urgency though, sure.

Tony said earlier that he refused to vote falcon. I think LoRab is probably the only viable alternative under the circumstances unless he changes his mind about that.

Jesus, ok, then I'll vote Lorab so that option is apparent. You still think it's Epi?

I'm not sure. I don't trust anything happening in my own head, frankly. I don't think anything Epignosis has said today makes him town, but if he were to flip town I would be unsurprised. I'm thinking about people more in terms of association than individually at this point.

Every single player has little town-like moments that in a normal game would be worthless on Day 4 (because there would be much better evidence available), and once again I feel like I am guessing. This truly has been a miserable game (no disrespect to leetic or his setup at all, it's on the players myself included).

[Epignosis]

I think I have an unfair bias on JJJ that I don't apply to everyone, so that's probably my hangup going after him lately.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Let me think it through with just night kills. motobot makes sense for anyone, so I'll focus on Scotty and Wilgy.

LoRab - no reason to doubt she killed either of them
sig - Wilgy town read him, Scotty had no opinion
Long Con - Scotty suspected him, Wilgy lightly town read him
Epignosis - Scotty lightly town read him, Wilgy town read him
falcon - Scotty town read him (no commentary), Wilgy heavily suspected him
Tony - Scotty town read him with some protest, Wilgy lightly suspected him

This didn't really help much. It's consistent with LoRab/falcon theory. Perhaps it's a boon for Epignosis. It's inconclusive otherwise.

[Epignosis]

This is the tenth time I've scrolled down the front page and asked myself what S~V~S has said in this game. ISO links are wonderful things.

[Epignosis]

All right.

LoRab said this:

This post pinged my suspiciometer:

I just realized that one of the advantages that I have in this game so far,(and it's a big one for people like JJJ,)is the fact that I have zero history playing this, (without any help at least.)

The reason I used JJJ as an example is because from what I understand, his play style revolves around comparing people from past experiences, such as being Mafia from a previous game.

From what I understand, JJJ can't seem to get a good read on me. Because at first he was accusing and/or questioning me.

However since my most recent large post, (about JJJ throwing crap at people,) he suddenly started to suspect me less, which I don't understand. But if I wrote it well, then fine, ok sure.

But from recent replies, people were already likely to figure that out sooner or later, so again, I don't know how a single Post can change so much about wether you trust someone or not.

Too much reminding us that he’s inexperienced and mentions this in other posts, as well. It feels a lot like nope, not me, don’t kill the newbie. It just didn’t sit right with me.

Simon actually responded:

This post pinged my suspiciometer:

I just realized that one of the advantages that I have in this game so far,(and it's a big one for people like JJJ,)is the fact that I have zero history playing this, (without any help at least.)

The reason I used JJJ as an example is because from what I understand, his play style revolves around comparing people from past experiences, such as being Mafia from a previous game.

From what I understand, JJJ can't seem to get a good read on me. Because at first he was accusing and/or questioning me.

However since my most recent large post, (about JJJ throwing crap at people,) he suddenly started to suspect me less, which I don't understand. But if I wrote it well, then fine, ok sure.

But from recent replies, people were already likely to figure that out sooner or later, so again, I don't know how a single Post can change so much about wether you trust someone or not.

Too much reminding us that he’s inexperienced and mentions this in other posts, as well. It feels a lot like nope, not me, don’t kill the newbie. It just didn’t sit right with me.

You wanted a reply from me, well here I am.

And yeah, the more I think about it after reading this post, the more annoying I sound in this regard. But on the other hand I was also stating that was still inexperienced for not knowing what kind of behavior I would see from different players, in which I would later figure out.

If you also want me to shut up about it, I will. There's no real point in rubbing it in, especially if people already know about this.

not a matter of annoying. You’re not. It’s a matter of you looking bad.

Rather than take the opportunity to dig into Simon's thoughts, ask questions, get to know him, LoRab votes him and leaves it at him looking bad.

To me that looks bad.

[Long Con]

All right.

LoRab said this:

This post pinged my suspiciometer:

I just realized that one of the advantages that I have in this game so far,(and it's a big one for people like JJJ,)is the fact that I have zero history playing this, (without any help at least.)

The reason I used JJJ as an example is because from what I understand, his play style revolves around comparing people from past experiences, such as being Mafia from a previous game.

From what I understand, JJJ can't seem to get a good read on me. Because at first he was accusing and/or questioning me.

However since my most recent large post, (about JJJ throwing crap at people,) he suddenly started to suspect me less, which I don't understand. But if I wrote it well, then fine, ok sure.

But from recent replies, people were already likely to figure that out sooner or later, so again, I don't know how a single Post can change so much about wether you trust someone or not.

Too much reminding us that he’s inexperienced and mentions this in other posts, as well. It feels a lot like nope, not me, don’t kill the newbie. It just didn’t sit right with me.

Simon actually responded:

This post pinged my suspiciometer:

I just realized that one of the advantages that I have in this game so far,(and it's a big one for people like JJJ,)is the fact that I have zero history playing this, (without any help at least.)

The reason I used JJJ as an example is because from what I understand, his play style revolves around comparing people from past experiences, such as being Mafia from a previous game.

From what I understand, JJJ can't seem to get a good read on me. Because at first he was accusing and/or questioning me.

However since my most recent large post, (about JJJ throwing crap at people,) he suddenly started to suspect me less, which I don't understand. But if I wrote it well, then fine, ok sure.

But from recent replies, people were already likely to figure that out sooner or later, so again, I don't know how a single Post can change so much about wether you trust someone or not.

Too much reminding us that he’s inexperienced and mentions this in other posts, as well. It feels a lot like nope, not me, don’t kill the newbie. It just didn’t sit right with me.

You wanted a reply from me, well here I am.

And yeah, the more I think about it after reading this post, the more annoying I sound in this regard. But on the other hand I was also stating that was still inexperienced for not knowing what kind of behavior I would see from different players, in which I would later figure out.

If you also want me to shut up about it, I will. There's no real point in rubbing it in, especially if people already know about this.

not a matter of annoying. You’re not. It’s a matter of you looking bad.

Rather than take the opportunity to dig into Simon's thoughts, ask questions, get to know him, LoRab votes him and leaves it at him looking bad.

To me that looks bad.

Yoooo, not bad, join me on dis here Lorab vote if ya wanna!

[Epignosis]

LoRab asked me a question for my placeholder vote (which I had said was such), but never asked Simon anything or gave him any reason why he was suspicious. Anybody could say anybody is suspicious and leave it at that.

[Epignosis]

All right.

LoRab said this:

This post pinged my suspiciometer:

I just realized that one of the advantages that I have in this game so far,(and it's a big one for people like JJJ,)is the fact that I have zero history playing this, (without any help at least.)

The reason I used JJJ as an example is because from what I understand, his play style revolves around comparing people from past experiences, such as being Mafia from a previous game.

From what I understand, JJJ can't seem to get a good read on me. Because at first he was accusing and/or questioning me.

However since my most recent large post, (about JJJ throwing crap at people,) he suddenly started to suspect me less, which I don't understand. But if I wrote it well, then fine, ok sure.

But from recent replies, people were already likely to figure that out sooner or later, so again, I don't know how a single Post can change so much about wether you trust someone or not.

Too much reminding us that he’s inexperienced and mentions this in other posts, as well. It feels a lot like nope, not me, don’t kill the newbie. It just didn’t sit right with me.

Simon actually responded:

This post pinged my suspiciometer:

I just realized that one of the advantages that I have in this game so far,(and it's a big one for people like JJJ,)is the fact that I have zero history playing this, (without any help at least.)

The reason I used JJJ as an example is because from what I understand, his play style revolves around comparing people from past experiences, such as being Mafia from a previous game.

From what I understand, JJJ can't seem to get a good read on me. Because at first he was accusing and/or questioning me.

However since my most recent large post, (about JJJ throwing crap at people,) he suddenly started to suspect me less, which I don't understand. But if I wrote it well, then fine, ok sure.

But from recent replies, people were already likely to figure that out sooner or later, so again, I don't know how a single Post can change so much about wether you trust someone or not.

Too much reminding us that he’s inexperienced and mentions this in other posts, as well. It feels a lot like nope, not me, don’t kill the newbie. It just didn’t sit right with me.

You wanted a reply from me, well here I am.

And yeah, the more I think about it after reading this post, the more annoying I sound in this regard. But on the other hand I was also stating that was still inexperienced for not knowing what kind of behavior I would see from different players, in which I would later figure out.

If you also want me to shut up about it, I will. There's no real point in rubbing it in, especially if people already know about this.

not a matter of annoying. You’re not. It’s a matter of you looking bad.

Rather than take the opportunity to dig into Simon's thoughts, ask questions, get to know him, LoRab votes him and leaves it at him looking bad.

To me that looks bad.

Yoooo, not bad, join me on dis here Lorab vote if ya wanna!

Yeah. [VOTE: Lorab] aubergine

[Epignosis]

If LoRab is mafia, who is partnered?

[Long Con]

falcon is my best guess. Like... not JJJ, not Epi, not Tony, not sig. Not me.

[Epignosis]

falcon is my best guess. Like... not JJJ, not Epi, not Tony, not sig. Not me.

Noted.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This post pinged my suspiciometer:

I just realized that one of the advantages that I have in this game so far,(and it's a big one for people like JJJ,)is the fact that I have zero history playing this, (without any help at least.)

The reason I used JJJ as an example is because from what I understand, his play style revolves around comparing people from past experiences, such as being Mafia from a previous game.

From what I understand, JJJ can't seem to get a good read on me. Because at first he was accusing and/or questioning me.

However since my most recent large post, (about JJJ throwing crap at people,) he suddenly started to suspect me less, which I don't understand. But if I wrote it well, then fine, ok sure.

But from recent replies, people were already likely to figure that out sooner or later, so again, I don't know how a single Post can change so much about wether you trust someone or not.

Too much reminding us that he’s inexperienced and mentions this in other posts, as well. It feels a lot like nope, not me, don’t kill the newbie. It just didn’t sit right with me.

On the topic, this accusation isn't quite fair either. Simon didn't appeal to anyone in those comments based on his inexperience; he even called it an advantage.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

falcon is my best guess. Like... not JJJ, not Epi, not Tony, not sig. Not me.

Noted.

That's been a hangup for me. If it's those two they've had some decent moments of distancing. LC raised valid points to the contrary, and your perspective could tip the scale.

[Epignosis]

My boy is growing up. Bishamonten damn.

[Epignosis]

falcon is my best guess. Like... not JJJ, not Epi, not Tony, not sig. Not me.

Noted.

That's been a hangup for me. If it's those two they've had some decent moments of distancing. LC raised valid points to the contrary, and your perspective could tip the scale.

Who would be LoRab's partner from your perspective?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

falcon is my best guess. Like... not JJJ, not Epi, not Tony, not sig. Not me.

Noted.

That's been a hangup for me. If it's those two they've had some decent moments of distancing. LC raised valid points to the contrary, and your perspective could tip the scale.

Who would be LoRab's partner from your perspective?

Five hours ago I'd have said you and Long Con are the best fits with LoRab. I'm not sure anymore, and if I move away from both then I end up where LC ended up -- falcon is the only name left (barring masterwork from sig or Tony).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Another way to put it -- if the only real candidates to be a mafia teammate of LoRab are the three people currently voting for LoRab, then falcon's vote packs the least punch.

[Epignosis]

His responses to today’s suspicion might as well have been “tee hee neener neener”.

Oooh, one of my favorites. Not as fun as Gilbert when I go though.

[Epignosis]

@falcon45ca I can’t get Epi to talk about you, so he’s either teamed with you or trying to make it look that way. If it’s the latter, only you can drive the wedge.

All right. This is a civilian JJJ. Final answer.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What’s your thought on Lorab’s vote

I don't care for it. I was surprised that she agreed with my rationale when it squarely implicated her, and she submitted to the vote with no resistance. I'm not sure how to interpret that right now from the standpoint of a falcon/LoRab team theory, but it makes me suspect LoRab more on her own.

It was partly your logic, and mostly his reaction to it.

Yes, it implicates me, because I’m a low poster in this game, but I know I’m not bad, and so it’s likely one of the other quieter posters. I’d say it’s likely a newer player, because newer players don’t always know how to kill strategically in games in general.

Confusing moment to navigate with respect to the present conversation:

When I went on my bit about the DrWilgy kill blunder and what it meant, my first guess for the team was LoRab and falcon. Then she supported the theory. What do I do with that?

[Epignosis]

@Long Con do you have an initial take on my view of Epignosis?

Could be him and falc. I'll have to read him over with your words in mind.

Is there ever a world for you where Jay is Maf?





What's your read on his slot right now?

I fully believe Jay is Town, and I hope if I'm wrong that everyone else can be smarter than me and vote for him. There's no room at all in my view of the game for me to pull a 180 on this opinion. I have committed to it fully, because I don't think Jay as a Wolf is gonna be so hand-wringing and doomposting as he has consistently been. It's unbecoming, and I don't think Jay was ever in a desperate enough situation as a Wolf to resort to it.

This guy too.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@TonyStarkPrime, may we need to reconsider here? I know where reconsidering has gotten me in this game, but what's one more?

[Epignosis]

@Epignosis What is your read on my slot?

Don't know (that mention didn't work by the way even though it showed up red). I think my view on you depends on LoRab.

What's your take on LoRab? I think LoRab is mafia.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: lorab] aubergine @LoRab If you're town, come help us solve

Translation: "I need LoRab here to be present as my partner, not because I suspect her."

You could have easily voted me or sig for the same purpose.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Maybe I am a moron for relying on a claimed independent to be my rock in this game, but what else am I gonna do.

[Epignosis]

I've caught up and I miss Glorfindel.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If the team is LoRab and falcon, then win or lose this is one of Long Con's finest hours as a civilian.

[Epignosis]

Still want my "Glorfindel is a Stump" game to be a thing one day.

[Long Con]

If the team is LoRab and falcon, then win or lose this is one of Long Con's finest hours as a civilian.

That would be so nice.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Glorfindel is good people.

[Epignosis]

If the team is LoRab and falcon, then win or lose this is one of Long Con's finest hours as a civilian.

If the team is Long Con and someone else, then win or lose this is one of Long Con's finest hours as mafia.

[Epignosis]

I think Lorab is indeed mafia. The more I think on the Simon (lack of) exchange, the more I think that's a slam dunk.

[Epignosis]

I like the idea of falcon being the teammate there. The votes against Lorab are empty and more like alarms.

[Epignosis]

What has Epignosis actually done in this game that is indicative of his being a civilian? Serious question.

Everyone has seemed town at one point or another. Who cares anymore. Raise the bar.

Oh Jay. Dear Jay.

Explain what Lorab has done that has fit this description.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think I am on board. I'm going to let my vote sit for a bit for reasons. Also Tony didn't say anything about my offer to lock my vote, so I'm not obligated to lock it. :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What has Epignosis actually done in this game that is indicative of his being a civilian? Serious question.

Everyone has seemed town at one point or another. Who cares anymore. Raise the bar.

Oh Jay. Dear Jay.

Explain what Lorab has done that has fit this description.

Nothing. LoRab can absolutely be mafia. She probably is mafia.

[Epignosis]

What has Epignosis actually done in this game that is indicative of his being a civilian? Serious question.

Everyone has seemed town at one point or another. Who cares anymore. Raise the bar.

Oh Jay. Dear Jay.

Explain what Lorab has done that has fit this description.

Nothing. LoRab can absolutely be mafia. She probably is mafia.

Very well. Just for my own satisfaction, why did you say everyone has seemed town at one point or another?

(And you can tell me to kiss my own ass if you want- fair is fair)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What I like most about LoRab and/or falcon theory is that it isn't coming from me. Kagemusha Mafia me is not a me that I want to follow.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Very well. Just for my own satisfaction, why did you say everyone has seemed town at one point or another?

(And you can tell me to kiss my own ass if you want- fair is fair)

Valid question. There are levels to it. I think that LoRab has, at least for brief moments, looked earnest when I am viewing her posts as she adds them to the thread. I felt that way, if only vaguely, when she first returned after her silent Day 1. It is not a quality read on my part, and that sweeping claim of mine applies to LoRab less than to the rest. Her overall body of work in this game is well within her mafia-aligned capabilities.

[Epignosis]

Very well. Just for my own satisfaction, why did you say everyone has seemed town at one point or another?

(And you can tell me to kiss my own ass if you want- fair is fair)

Valid question. There are levels to it. I think that LoRab has, at least for brief moments, looked earnest when I am viewing her posts as she adds them to the thread. I felt that way, if only vaguely, when she first returned after her silent Day 1. It is not a quality read on my part, and that sweeping claim of mine applies to LoRab less than to the rest. Her overall body of work in this game is well within her mafia-aligned capabilities.

Boy, if you're mafia, I'm writing this down in a Book of Things Mafia Says, read by Mr. Samuel L. Jackson.

[Epignosis]

Gonna have to scoot soon. Work today, work tomorrow. At least I can eat with senior citizens at restaurants!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm sure mafia do say that sometimes!

To be clear, that wasn't meant to convey a flavor of everyone seems so golden and good!, but rather [/i]everyone has moments of seeming fine, I guess, I don't know, whatever[/i]. The struggle is discrimination. All y'all have looked the same to me for much of the game.

Perhaps today we're beginning to separate though. That'd be timely.

[TonyStarkPrime]

seems ~fine

[sig]

I’m skim caught up and wow some whiplash here from epi to not epi.

First thing first I did think about it and I still don’t see a world in which epi is mafia. Could he have tricked me? Sure, but it’s doubtful.

I won’t be voting Jay today unless it’s an agreed consensus it feels like a waste of a vote plus I’m having some doubts here. Mainly that’s based off two things.

1. Jay is actively engaging and I don’t think he’d have continued to do so if he was mafia and Epi was leading.

2. The fact nobody else besides Falcon who’s in the POE seems to think he’s mafia.

I still think there’s a chance but we know there’s another mafia member so I’m not dying on the Jay hill today.

That leaves LC, TSP, Falcon, and Lorab.

My first question would be do we believe TSP claim that he’s Indy? If not he’s likely mafia. This is a gamble and he does seem to be solving and engaged so probably not the direction to go in today.

So we take him out

LC, Falcon, Lorab.

In a world where Jay and Epi aren’t mafia and TSP is third party that leaves these three.

I think the points made against lorab are strong and a quick ISO read showed not much. Also while I did originally read her anti Third party thing as townie, in this set up the only people who would benefit from third party hunting is mafia so in a read back that looked bad. She’s also blending into the major wagons

Falcon/LC are the last two, I think both are playing within their civ meta, but also both are good at doing that as mafia.

I’d love to say LC being alive is a red flag, but with Jay and Epi both alive as well that doesn’t really hold true. He is game solving a bit, but not aggressively so and you could say he pocketed Jay.

Falcon is more active than when he’s mafia and seems to be attempting to solve, but (I recognize the irony of what I’m about to say) his main focus was Jay, this provided a good foil of engagement. I can’t recall right now if this is within his town meta. He also wasn’t on the AS wagon, and I very firmly think at mafia was there.


I do plan to ISO all three today time permitted. But, I think our best bet is to keep it within the three Falcon, LC, and Lorab.

[sig]

Yea the more I think about Jay today the more I think he’s towny, there’s still some head scratchers but unless Epi and Jay are mafia, Jay created the wagon on epi for lolz, then had to defuse it, I don’t see him being mafia.

For arguments sake we could say he created the Epi wagon, but epi push back made him switch to someone easier, but that seems a bit of a stretch

[sig]

Oh never mind Jay is still on epi maybe he’s mafia with lorab

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tony moved so [VOTE: LoRab] aubergine

Wanted to keep the wagons close to maintain a pressured environment. I am still listening to all arguments.

If it isn’t her then good game and well played.