Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]

[rabbit8]

No one is trying to look bad. You can't look civvie. Absurd argument is absurd. Push away.

[S~V~S]

SVS raises a good point about BF seeming to buddy up to Golden. She even went to the trouble of pulling quotes so you know she means business. I can see where she's coming from too. I'm not sure it's suspicious yet, but BF - man -there are others playing!! Mafia besties are the best for sure! What do you think of everyone else?

You're kidding right? I'm like one of the highest posters. I've talked about others tons. Summary:

1. No reason to distrust Golden. Clarification for Dom, doesn't mean I trust him
2. Bullz - on my bad list
3. Epi - on my worse list
4. TH - suspicious of, but recent posts have made me reconsider
5. SVS - misguided

I have to say, I agree with the points re: civ behavior. I know rabbit and Epi will never agree with me. I understand the arguments on both sides. I think the "trying to look suspicious/bad" routine is just harmful to the civs in the current game, whilst trying to set up themselves for success as a baddie in future games so people will say "Oh that's just always how they act, you'll get used to it"

But, I digress. I will still be suspicious of them and still push for their lynch just about every time.

So Epi is on your very naughty list, but you are basically saying your opinion of Epi is worthless in your next post. Good to know.

And linki again, there you go again oversimplifying and trivializing.

[blindfaeth]

SVS raises a good point about BF seeming to buddy up to Golden. She even went to the trouble of pulling quotes so you know she means business. I can see where she's coming from too. I'm not sure it's suspicious yet, but BF - man -there are others playing!! Mafia besties are the best for sure! What do you think of everyone else?

You're kidding right? I'm like one of the highest posters. I've talked about others tons. Summary:

1. No reason to distrust Golden. Clarification for Dom, doesn't mean I trust him
2. Bullz - on my bad list
3. Epi - on my worse list
4. TH - suspicious of, but recent posts have made me reconsider
5. SVS - misguided

You've talked about like seven people altogether, one of them only in the context of defending your friendship and most others in relation to your potential info. I mean, let's face it, I'm only on your bad list for disagreeing with you. You asked for people's opinions on something (or invited them by sharing an idea in a public forum) and then anyone who said no became your suspect list. Is there anyone you suspect for any reason that doesn't revolve around your will?

Also not true. Stop bullshitting.

It kinda is unfair IMO if it something you cantvdefend against. Like info gained from an item.

SVS disagrees shortly after. I don't suspect her at all. I am arguing with her sure, but it's because she suspects me.

Other than blindfaeth, I don't think anyone got anything valuable.

...right?

I mean, no one is going to come in here saying "Wowee, I got a magic crystal that shows me who the bad guys are!"

...right?

I mean, no one wants to be killed for their shit.

...right?

So I'm astonished at the risk blindfaeth has chosen to take. What astonishes me more is that he thinks he has three of five pegged on Day 1 due to a tenuous assumption on his part: That the owner of the will is the millionaire anarchist (would an anarchist even have a will? I don't know). This has been called "info" and "potential info." It is neither. It's an assumption. Knowing how much llama loves loves loves assumptions, it's naive to believe the owner of the will is most likely evil and that you can peg that person's teammates on Day 1.

And if you are right, blindfaeth, you squandered your opportunity. You should have gone hard after the owner of the will and observed what happened.

Well, I don't know about y'all, but I got a beautiful amber necklace. And it looks great on me

For serious though, I agree with Epi here. However, I cannot blame BF for sharing about his item b/c I for one find it very difficult to keep information to myself. But, I cannot believe that BF's item would give him such concrete information this early in the game. I would imagine he is reading into it quite a lot.

Elohcin posts this which is opposing my idea. I don't suspect Elo.

In short, it is the fact that you disagree with giving the thread info, since the baddies will likely end up with the majority of items, COMBINED with the agenda you're pushing, and the manner in which you're doing it. I read SVS' and Elo's posts as genuine, personally. Feel free to disagree, I listen to my gut. And I all I hear you spouting over and over again are lies.

[blindfaeth]

SVS raises a good point about BF seeming to buddy up to Golden. She even went to the trouble of pulling quotes so you know she means business. I can see where she's coming from too. I'm not sure it's suspicious yet, but BF - man -there are others playing!! Mafia besties are the best for sure! What do you think of everyone else?

You're kidding right? I'm like one of the highest posters. I've talked about others tons. Summary:

1. No reason to distrust Golden. Clarification for Dom, doesn't mean I trust him
2. Bullz - on my bad list
3. Epi - on my worse list
4. TH - suspicious of, but recent posts have made me reconsider
5. SVS - misguided

I have to say, I agree with the points re: civ behavior. I know rabbit and Epi will never agree with me. I understand the arguments on both sides. I think the "trying to look suspicious/bad" routine is just harmful to the civs in the current game, whilst trying to set up themselves for success as a baddie in future games so people will say "Oh that's just always how they act, you'll get used to it"

But, I digress. I will still be suspicious of them and still push for their lynch just about every time.

So Epi is on your very naughty list, but you are basically saying your opinion of Epi is worthless in your next post. Good to know.

And linki again, there you go again oversimplifying and trivializing.

SVS, maybe I don't understand the suspicion. Can you rephrase, I think we are talking in circles. Maybe if you approach it from a different angle, I can better respond.

Anyway, in response to the bolded portion above, I'm not sure what you expected - it's not like I would know anything Day 1. We haven't even had a night cycle yet.

[blindfaeth]

FWIW, I did a quick scan of MP's 9 posts this game, and no, I didn't see him react to my suspicions of TH/Bullz at all.

[rabbit8]

Did I miss this info? I thought you just said you have a name and think you get rich when they die, BF?
You think this leads you to believe you know who the Millionaire is, correct? How come you don't think it could be the The Wealthy Gad-About-Town? Did I miss your explanation on why?

[blindfaeth]

Did I miss this info? I thought you just said you have a name and think you get rich when they die, BF?
You think this leads you to believe you know who the Millionaire is, correct? How come you don't think it could be the The Wealthy Gad-About-Town? Did I miss your explanation on why?

I do think it could be them. Didn't think about it until someone pointed out though. I've mentioned at least twice that it could technically be anyones and not tied to a specific role. I've been very clear it's not info.

[Bullzeye]

In short, it is the fact that you disagree with giving the thread info, since the baddies will likely end up with the majority of items, COMBINED with the agenda you're pushing, and the manner in which you're doing it. I read SVS' and Elo's posts as genuine, personally. Feel free to disagree, I listen to my gut. And I all I hear you spouting over and over again are lies.

I always disagree with giving the thread info. I always will. I will never follow info. This has nothing to do with you or your will, this is a strongly held personal view that won't bow to peer pressure. There are like three roles that can steal items, none of them are baddies. They're just as likely to end up with things as the baddies are. In fact, if a civ steals an item from someone and then the baddies later kill that person, the baddies don't get any items because the person didn't have any. When people are lynched, their items go to their voters. So it's a bit of a simplification to say baddies will end up with most of the items. Several roles will likely end up with stockpiles of items. Not just the baddies.

When you take great care to say you don't explicitly trust Golden, you just don't distrust him, that's fine. When I say there's no reason to trust you yet or believe you're telling the truth, that's pushing an agenda? Have I ever actually said you're a baddie or we should lynch you? No. Wanna know why? Because I don't think you're a baddie. I don't trust you either - and there's nothing wrong with saying that. It's not an attempt to discredit you. My opposition to the idea of info is not connected to you or your role. It's connected to nearly five years of mafia experience and the belief that info straight up ruins games.

All I initially said was that I would feel bad if I were the person in your will, because if you name that person now they have no defence and will probably die regardless of who they are. Golden didn't like that, so I elaborated because I know he doesn't know me very well. Then you come in saying I'm worried and trying to discredit you and that I have some kind of agenda. If you didn't keep talking about me I'd stop talking about you. In fact, I might anyway. This conversation is just going round in circles. It's boring. I'm bored. If you have something more interesting to talk about, let me know. Til then I'll do my own thing.

[blindfaeth]

Ok, I'm bored too. I'll hit you up later when you post more baddie nonsense :P

Golden, I know you were frustrated with rabbit, but why did you waste your vote on him?

[S~V~S]

Did I miss this info? I thought you just said you have a name and think you get rich when they die, BF?
You think this leads you to believe you know who the Millionaire is, correct? How come you don't think it could be the The Wealthy Gad-About-Town? Did I miss your explanation on why?

I do think it could be them. Didn't think about it until someone pointed out though. I've mentioned at least twice that it could technically be anyones and not tied to a specific role. I've been very clear it's not info.

[quote[ytubehd][/ytubehd]="blindfaeth"]

That person can also be Oliver Oliver right?

I suppose so. BR also made a good point, it could be someone who picked one of the "valuable" items. It could be completely random. I'm just following my gut, and my gut smells something fishy [/quote]

This was your reaction to the Oliver Oliver (wealthy gadabout) thing. Despite supposing the will could belong to Oliver, and thinking BR could have a valid point, you still seem more inclined to think its fishy.

[Black Rock]

I really can't deal with a nonsensical suspicion of me in a game yet again, so if this reasoning actually gets momentum, I would love to bow out and just get lynched Day 1 so that I don't have to worry about it.

No, no, no. You will fight for life or guarantee my vote. None of this bull MP. tsk tsk

It's not a nonsensical suspicion and it's insulting to brush it off that way. I was literally looking at day 0. When I saw those two posts they pinged me right away. Do you know how often I have been pinged by a day 0 post? I don't either but not very often, I am usually lost on day 1. I did understand your explanation but your reactions after, when being pressed, I didn't like them at all.

Dom, I'm not mad at you or anyone else, don't worry, that'd be silly of me. I understand BR's observation, and I understand why she wants me to respond. My response is forthcoming:

I really can't deal with a nonsensical suspicion of me in a game yet again, so if this reasoning actually gets momentum, I would love to bow out and just get lynched Day 1 so that I don't have to worry about it.

MP, please reconcile these posts. You 180'd on your thoughts on BR's find with little reason other than it's inconvenient to do otherwise. If you can offer more of an explanation for that, it'd be great.


Just because you don't like that it's being brought up doesn't mean it is nonsensical. It actually makes sense, and for you to say otherwise forces me to read you as dismissive and unwilling to deal with truths.

I like Doms observation here.

[S~V~S]

Big fingers phone post quote fail

[Black Rock]

Concerning BF, I do believe BF is looking more civvie at this point. I do understand some of the speculation surrounding BF's posts. There is a tone in his posts that are sometimes rubbing people the wrong way. I think we need to look past some of the tone and favouritism to get an accurate read on BF. BF, maybe you can tone it down a little. Telling people that they need to deal with it is not helping.

[blindfaeth]

Did I miss this info? I thought you just said you have a name and think you get rich when they die, BF?
You think this leads you to believe you know who the Millionaire is, correct? How come you don't think it could be the The Wealthy Gad-About-Town? Did I miss your explanation on why?

I do think it could be them. Didn't think about it until someone pointed out though. I've mentioned at least twice that it could technically be anyones and not tied to a specific role. I've been very clear it's not info.

[quote[ytubehd][/ytubehd]="blindfaeth"]

That person can also be Oliver Oliver right?

I suppose so. BR also made a good point, it could be someone who picked one of the "valuable" items. It could be completely random. I'm just following my gut, and my gut smells something fishy

This was your reaction to the Oliver Oliver (wealthy gadabout) thing. Despite supposing the will could belong to Oliver, and thinking BR could have a valid point, you still seem more inclined to think its fishy.[/quote]

OK, I think I understand. I know you play from your gut too SVS, Excel is for squares. To put it simply, I expected opposition, but not to the degree that actually came to fruition. Regardless of others opinions, I still don't think it was a bad idea, I don't regret mentioning it. When multiple people oppose ideas I set forth, I get the hunch I'm onto something. All it takes is a couple mafia throwing in some doubt and letting the rest of the players ride the wave. So that is why I believe I am still likely to be correct if I had to guess. Does that explain better?

Linki with br, will read in a sec

[blindfaeth]

Concerning BF, I do believe BF is looking more civvie at this point. I do understand some of the speculation surrounding BF's posts. There is a tone in his posts that are sometimes rubbing people the wrong way. I think we need to look past some of the tone and favouritism to get an accurate read on BF. BF, maybe you can tone it down a little. Telling people that they need to deal with it is not helping.

I get your point, sorry was frustrated last night. I dislike that others I won't name aren't held to the same standard, though. If it were them someone would say inevitably "that's just so and so".

[Dom]

BF, I'm not asking you TO name drop, but I am asking you why you are not name dropping from your information.

[blindfaeth]

I don't see the point, it wouldn't be helpful. Not enough people are on board. If I'm right, they could get some votes but not get lynched, which makes that role stronger. But, I pretty much have to name drop end of night one, in case I do die.

[Dom]

Just wondering what your answer would be-- thanks.

[Tangrowth]

LOL. Okay, guys. Just vote for me. I don't want to play mafia after feeling super burnt out in a game where people ACTUALLY think I would go into my BTSC chat, find out there's a vote, then come back in the thread and make a follow-up post for that reason. I'm sorry. This is absurd. It's not "impressive".

I'm voting myself. What a load of crock.

[Tangrowth]

I am definitely taking a break after this game. Holy shit. I just cannot deal with this right now.

[Epignosis]

I'm voting myself. What a load of crock.

Metalmarsh89 would be so proud of you.

[Tangrowth]

I'm voting myself. What a load of crock.

Metalmarsh89 would be so proud of you.

I know he would, and I know how ironic this is of me, but seriously, this is insane. I said I didn't mind answering BR's question, because I didn't, but if people actually want to vote for me on Day 1 because I posted 6 minutes later, construing it as "OMG BTSC LOL" and yet offered an absolutely sensible explanation for my posts, then I will respond to that absurdity with some of my own.

[blindfaeth]

Mp, come back and calm down. You are overreacting. It's OK we all do it. I know you come back to the thread to play mafia sometimes when you know better and should be studying. You're a mafia addict remember? :P

It was an interesting theory. No one is damping you for it.

[Tangrowth]

I don't want to play a game and defend myself all game AGAIN when people can piggyback onto BR's observation now, and don't tell me this isn't happening because it's already happening, and say "'LOL MP IS SUSPICIOUS BECAUSE HE CLEARLY HAS BTSC".

[blindfaeth]

Ebwop, damning

[Tangrowth]

Yes, I'm pissed off, BF, and I swear it's not a crazy ploy of any kind. If people were going to vote for me by the end of this Day because of my two posts, then by all means. If people weren't going to, then by all means. I'm not trying to save myself or affect any of that. I don't have any suspects. I just want to see who has the balls to actually vote for me on Day 1 for something so absurdly WIFOM that it's ridiculous.

THAT'S one of the few key reasons civilians don't win on this site. It's the tunnel vision and willingness to construe events that could have any plausible number of explanations and use it to crusade against someone for mafia behavior. I know it because I've done this people all the time.

Does anyone seriously believe that the only explanation for my two posts is the fact that someone in my BTSC told me to go back in and place a vote?

[Tangrowth]

Anyway, I do have other things I should be doing, so I will come back with a calmer mind (if I can) later, and present my thoughts then. I don't have any other thoughts right now anyway.

[blindfaeth]

Not to defend Mp but I would caution anyone to reconsider voting him if you are. You will certainly have my eye. He had a very stressful day one in another game recently and I can tell he's frustrated.

Linki with mp

[Bullzeye]

Yes, I'm pissed off, BF, and I swear it's not a crazy ploy of any kind. If people were going to vote for me by the end of this Day because of my two posts, then by all means. If people weren't going to, then by all means. I'm not trying to save myself or affect any of that. I don't have any suspects. I just want to see who has the balls to actually vote for me on Day 1 for something so absurdly WIFOM that it's ridiculous.

THAT'S one of the few key reasons civilians don't win on this site. It's the tunnel vision and willingness to construe events that could have any plausible number of explanations and use it to crusade against someone for mafia behavior. I know it because I've done this people all the time.

Does anyone seriously believe that the only explanation for my two posts is the fact that someone in my BTSC told me to go back in and place a vote?

Personally I don't believe it's even a reasonable explanation, let alone the only one.

[Tangrowth]

I can't even believe anyone thinks it's a reasonable explanation, but with civilian paranoia, I understand why someone wanted me to respond to the question. How else can you find mafia other than to catch them lying? So I get it.

But if someone actually thinks I'm most worthy of a vote today because of my two posts in succession mean that I have BTSC and that somehow this makes me a better candidate than anyone else today, then I say, I'm going llama and MM-style gambit, and saying BRING IT ON. Bring on the votes.

[Turnip Head]

Metalmarsh89 has yet to post in this game. Is he aware that he's playing?

[Tangrowth]

Dang it, I should have counted to 10, I feel bad for reacting emotionally now instead of rationally. :P But I'm in too deep now. VOTE ME. And stuff. BBL.

[Epignosis]

Not to defend Mp but I would caution anyone to reconsider voting him if you are. You will certainly have my eye. He had a very stressful day one in another game recently and I can tell he's frustrated.

Linki with mp

I'm already on your naughty list. Can I vote MP?

[Golden]

I'm waiting to see what BF does with this information he has. I don't having this said info makes him good or bad. I think the calling players out and saying I as expecting that kind of reply is a little odd. It just comes across wrong. The using the reply to point to guilt. I don't know...........

I want to look more into the votes for items. I need to reread the roles and see if there is anything in there that could make what someone voted for have any meaning. I think some brought up this point about some votes for items. I can't remember off the top of my head who, but I had the exact same feeling. Maybe I'm biased though since I got, NOTHING!

It was ME rabbit

I said the key + safe is one thing I had an eye on, and also people who went for papers, because the baddies have a paper-storing vault.

[Golden]

Ok, I'm bored too. I'll hit you up later when you post more baddie nonsense :P

Golden, I know you were frustrated with rabbit, but why did you waste your vote on him?

I think I made that pretty clear in thread.

I did find rabbit's post that it wasn't civ friendly funny, though

[Marmot]

Metalmarsh89 has yet to post in this game. Is he aware that he's playing?

You called?

[Vompatti]

Metalmarsh89 has yet to post in this game. Is he aware that he's playing?

I find it highly suspicious that you claim to know who has posted and who has not, as if you had browsed through every page of the thread (and for what purpose?).

[Mongoose]

Dang it, I should have counted to 10, I feel bad for reacting emotionally now instead of rationally. :P But I'm in too deep now. VOTE ME. And stuff. BBL.

It's okay hoss, we've all been there.

Huge deadline at COB tomorrow so I am spending my afternoon break doing a Scan & Ran with you lot. Seems like typical "mountains of molehill" Day 1 shenanigans, but nothing is toooo concerning to me yet (and I sure as hell don't have anything more compelling to add other than I made a "It has proudly been 3 days since our last velociraptor accident" sign for my office door).

I'll be voting early (tomorrow)because I leave for St Pete Saturday morning for a business trip and will be gone through Tuesday.

[Turnip Head]

Metalmarsh89 has yet to post in this game. Is he aware that he's playing?

You called?

Now I can post my list.

[Turnip Head]

A Person
bea
birdwithteeth11
Black Rock
blindfaeth
Bullzeye
Canucklehead
DFaraday
Dom
Epignosis
Elohcin
fingersplints
Golden
juliets
LizKeen
Long Con
Metalmarsh89
Mongoose
MovingPictures07
rabbit8
ShēpInWolfsClothing
S~V~S
Turnip Head
Vompatti
Zomberella12

[Mongoose]

Idk BR. If it was anyone other than MP I might think you were on to something, but he is so detail oriented I'm not really shocked he would have read the rules. Even I noticed that you can't have two people vote the same option and I am pretty notorious for not reading things like that carefully.
worth considering though

so bf - the TH/Bullz things are seperate from the will thing? I'm trying to get what you are saying here

I'm frankly surprised I read the instructions and am not one of the ones who voted second for one of the items. That's a welcome change.

[Epignosis]

With a 72 hour day there is no need for me to rush. But it's gonna take a change in approach from you or someone else coming up with something compelling for me to look in a different direction.

No rush and you're the first person to vote.

You know how MP was feeling about MM's self-voting being anti-civilian, and it got him real mad?

That's exactly how I feel about the kind of thing epi is pulling right now. I'd lynch him day one every time until it stopped. It's utterly anti-civilian behaviour. I don't know why anyone would put up with it, honestly..

linki - TH, sorry its not a 'brand', its just a cop out.

Anti-civilian behavior? That's whatever you can do to make people think you're a civilian, right?

[Mongoose]

Hey everyone!
Since we have a little extra time today, let's have a fun game. The roles on the front page need pictures to go along with them. Please submit a picture of your role to me via PM by the end of Night 1. My favorite gets a prize. Please nothing too racist for the Celestials.

*spat out tea in laughter*

I like the qualifier of "too" racist, with the intimation being that "a little racist" is permissible.

[Golden]

@epi - I'm just saying this... I'm not biting on making any defense to any of your posts referring to me today until and unless you actually expressly say you are suspicious of me. You can choose to shoot straight. Do and I'll reply. Don't and I'll ignore you.

[Marmot]

Metalmarsh89 has yet to post in this game. Is he aware that he's playing?

You called?

Now I can post my list.

You could have done it anyway. Notice how I included Russ in my list early on in Death Note.

[blindfaeth]

Not to defend Mp but I would caution anyone to reconsider voting him if you are. You will certainly have my eye. He had a very stressful day one in another game recently and I can tell he's frustrated.

Linki with mp

I'm already on your naughty list. Can I vote MP?

To clarify, not responding. I can't deal with the snark

[Tangrowth]

Ugh, I'm sorry, I feel I derailed this game inevitably now.

MM, are you self-voting?

[Golden]

Ugh, I'm sorry, I feel I derailed this game inevitably now.

MP, welcome to the club.

FWIW, I'm more suspicious of BR than you. The moment she posted that post, I thought about RR and thought 'what exactly does BR expect MPs reaction to this to be'... I didn't expect anything different from you, actually.

[Marmot]

Ugh, I'm sorry, I feel I derailed this game inevitably now.

MM, are you self-voting?

I wasn't planning on it. I'd rather lynch someone whose item I can take.

[Golden]

Ugh, I'm sorry, I feel I derailed this game inevitably now.

MM, are you self-voting?

I wasn't planning on it. I'd rather lynch someone whose item I can take.

Well if there is one thing no-one can accuse me of in my vote to rabbit, it's that I was after his nifty loot.