Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]

[S~V~S]

Ebwop, not quite. Sorry, I forgot the rest of the item rules:

How Items Work

Some items can be used to confer benefits, some cannot. Some items will be consumed when used, some will not. Most items can be stolen. When someone is lynched, all of the items they possess go to the people who voted for them, in order. So the first vote gets the first item, etc. When someone is NKed, whoever performed the kill gets the item. Items may not be voluntarily traded between players.

[Golden]

I understand that SVS, and on a straight reading I'd agree...

But it doesn't seem like llama would want to encourage a scenario where everyone could just vote for themselves to keep their items safe (or make them vanish into the nether if they die)... and I'm not sure he had MM in mind when he wrote the instructions.

I just think it is worth clarity.

[Long Con]

I'm going to start slapping these early self voters.

I might vote one of them tbh.

Oh yeah! MM also has my eye for his opportunistic self-vote.

Do you think this might indicate that he is bad? Does your experience with Metalmarsh point to this?

Yes, he did it in Film Directors, and he was bad. Then he did it in Roger Rabbit, but his alignment in that is currently unknown. I believe he has done it as a Civvie - the way I see it, the only reason to do it as a Civvie is to get away with it when you're a baddie. It doesn't ever do anything to help the Civs, but it sure helps a baddie escape fire in the early game... unless he gets called on it.

[Long Con]

I understand that SVS, and on a straight reading I'd agree...

But it doesn't seem like llama would want to encourage a scenario where everyone could just vote for themselves to keep their items safe (or make them vanish into the nether if they die)... and I'm not sure he had MM in mind when he wrote the instructions.

I just think it is worth clarity.

I agree, I don't think Llama had self-voting in mind when he set the parameters. It's worth a clarification.

[thellama73]

How do we know no-one will get the item.

Llama, when dishing out the lynchee's items, will dead people be excluded when you allocate?

This is correct. Dead people cannot receive their own item. It will go to the first living person to vote for them.

[juliets]

I'm going to start slapping these early self voters.

I might vote one of them tbh.

Oh yeah! MM also has my eye for his opportunistic self-vote.

Do you think this might indicate that he is bad? Does your experience with Metalmarsh point to this?

I'm going to start slapping these early self voters.

I might vote one of them tbh.

Oh yeah! MM also has my eye for his opportunistic self-vote.

Me too. I can't abide people voting for themselves early and expecting us to take them seriously as civs.

"us"?

us = others playing the game that feel the same way I do.

[Long Con]

I'm going to start slapping these early self voters.

I might vote one of them tbh.

Oh yeah! MM also has my eye for his opportunistic self-vote.

Do you think this might indicate that he is bad? Does your experience with Metalmarsh point to this?

I'm going to start slapping these early self voters.

I might vote one of them tbh.

Oh yeah! MM also has my eye for his opportunistic self-vote.

Me too. I can't abide people voting for themselves early and expecting us to take them seriously as civs.

"us"?

us = others playing the game that feel the same way I do.

Dom, I'm going to make an assumption here. You're looking to suggest that juliets meant "her baddies teammates" maybe?

[rabbit8]

^^I think that's what Dom was getting at. But that's a streeeeeeeeeetch.

[Golden]

Dom got my eye for it too... it's a big stretch.

[Canucklehead]

Hi. I'm gonna try and catch up now. Holy fuck.
Sorry for not being around, my participation will increase as the game goes on and once RR is done...but you know me. I'm useless until I get my bearings and get drawn in to a game.

[Marmot]

I'm going to start slapping these early self voters.

I might vote one of them tbh.

Oh yeah! MM also has my eye for his opportunistic self-vote.

Behavior modification? Does it work? Ever?

Ongoing experiment.

At least there are a few choices. I hate self votes. I don't think they point to civvie or baddie in anyway. They also don't help in anyway either.

Good luck with the experiment. Are you using the mafiatific method?

Metalmarsh is the subject of this experiment. My only remorse is that no one will get his Item if he gets lynched now.

I dunno how I feel about this.

@rabbit, self-votes are useless? I beg to differ, and I think that there is another ongoing game that can stand as an example of that.

I wasn't planning on self-voting, but I changed my mind.

[blindfaeth]

Dom got my eye for it too... it's a big stretch.

That and he posted like three times in the other current game day 1. "hi everyone" "raise ur hand if ur bad", why is this dom so drastically different?

[rabbit8]

Self votes are useless and dumb, IMO. You're supposed to be voting for player you think are bad.

Do as you please though.

[Marmot]

Self votes are useless and dumb, IMO. You're supposed to be voting for player you think are bad.

Do as you please though.

I won't do it every game, I can guarantee you that. Sometimes I just do.

[rabbit8]

Your vote, your prerogative.

[Marmot]

Why does Golden think you will self-vote.

Ooh, just noticed. Post #4,000 incoming.

[Dom]

I'm going to start slapping these early self voters.

I might vote one of them tbh.

Oh yeah! MM also has my eye for his opportunistic self-vote.

Do you think this might indicate that he is bad? Does your experience with Metalmarsh point to this?

I'm going to start slapping these early self voters.

I might vote one of them tbh.

Oh yeah! MM also has my eye for his opportunistic self-vote.

Me too. I can't abide people voting for themselves early and expecting us to take them seriously as civs.

"us"?

us = others playing the game that feel the same way I do.

So, not the civvies as a whole?
Please, answer honestly.

Dom, I'm going to make an assumption here. You're looking to suggest that juliets meant "her baddies teammates" maybe?

Nope.

Dom got my eye for it too... it's a big stretch.

Woah woah woah.

That's not even what I was getting at.

Nice HUGE jump in conclusions, there Golden, with ZERO evidence behind you.

Dom got my eye for it too... it's a big stretch.

That and he posted like three times in the other current game day 1. "hi everyone" "raise ur hand if ur bad", why is this dom so drastically different?

*anyone but me anyone but me anyone but me*

[Canucklehead]

So I'm done my mostly skimmy read through, and holy shitballs lots of people are wearing very tight undies in this game. I think we all need to loosen up, take our pants off, and just be cool, amirite?


Also, I ignored a bunch of stuff that just looked like bickering for the sake of bickering. I'm interested in SVS's case/thoughts on BF, and also interested in voting Vompatti.

[Golden]

Dom, sorry, what evidence am I supposed to have behind me?

It did sound as though you were asking JC if 'us' was her and her baddie team - to me. It sounded like you were calling her out for it.

[Marmot]

So I'm done my mostly skimmy read through, and holy shitballs lots of people are wearing very tight undies in this game. I think we all need to loosen up, take our pants off, and just be cool, amirite?


Also, I ignored a bunch of stuff that just looked like bickering for the sake of bickering. I'm interested in SVS's case/thoughts on BF, and also interested in voting Vompatti.

Can you help me out here? It's stuck in the cracks.

[Dom]

Dom, sorry, what evidence am I supposed to have behind me?

It did sound as though you were asking JC if 'us' was her and her baddie team - to me. It sounded like you were calling her out for it.

As LC said, he was making an assumption-- asking a question. You did not wait for a response. You ran with that assumption.

I was asking Juliets a very different question than the one you insinuated. You did not seem to care. Neither did BF.

BF also is highly nonsensical in his comparision of my two performances.

[Golden]

^^I think that's what Dom was getting at. But that's a streeeeeeeeeetch.

So, Dom, did you just choose to ignore the post right before mine? Rabbits one right there ^ ??

I do not know what you mean by 'I did not seem to care'. I just spoke my mind about what I saw. I do care if I am right or wrong.

[Turnip Head]

Honestly Dom I got the same impression from your post that LC, rabbit, BF and Golden did, and now that you've clarified that that wasn't your intention, I actually have NO idea what you're getting at re: juliets. Asking her if she was addressing all civs by saying "us", what does that even mean, what is your point re: juliets? Your follow-up question to her makes no sense to me, but I guess I'll wait to hear juliets' response to it in any case. But it feels like you're backpedaling.

Speaking of waiting for responses, I'm still waiting on Mongoose to address my post directed towards her. Her three posts from this past day are as follows:

Dang it, I should have counted to 10, I feel bad for reacting emotionally now instead of rationally. :P But I'm in too deep now. VOTE ME. And stuff. BBL.

It's okay hoss, we've all been there.

Huge deadline at COB tomorrow so I am spending my afternoon break doing a Scan & Ran with you lot. Seems like typical "mountains of molehill" Day 1 shenanigans, but nothing is toooo concerning to me yet (and I sure as hell don't have anything more compelling to add other than I made a "It has proudly been 3 days since our last velociraptor accident" sign for my office door).

I'll be voting early (tomorrow)because I leave for St Pete Saturday morning for a business trip and will be gone through Tuesday.

So it sounded like she had scanned the thread, because she commented how the day's cases looked like mountains of molehills fare.

Then she replied to a post that wasn't addressed to her:

Idk BR. If it was anyone other than MP I might think you were on to something, but he is so detail oriented I'm not really shocked he would have read the rules. Even I noticed that you can't have two people vote the same option and I am pretty notorious for not reading things like that carefully.
worth considering though

so bf - the TH/Bullz things are seperate from the will thing? I'm trying to get what you are saying here

I'm frankly surprised I read the instructions and am not one of the ones who voted second for one of the items. That's a welcome change.

And then she made an off-topic comment directed to the host:

Hey everyone!
Since we have a little extra time today, let's have a fun game. The roles on the front page need pictures to go along with them. Please submit a picture of your role to me via PM by the end of Night 1. My favorite gets a prize. Please nothing too racist for the Celestials.

*spat out tea in laughter*

I like the qualifier of "too" racist, with the intimation being that "a little racist" is permissible.

Yet she didn't reply to my post addressed to her. For now I'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she just hadn't read that far into the thread, even though her first post made it sound like she had scanned the whole thread to that point. So that's strange, but I'll withhold from further judgment until she replies to my first post and to this subsequent post.

[rabbit8]

Why does Golden think you will self-vote.

Ooh, just noticed. Post #4,000 incoming.

I'm sorry, I have no idea how Golden thinks. My name is Rabbit. Even when I try to think like Golden I have no idea how he comes to some of his conclusions because I'm not Golden. I think you should direct questions about why Golden thinks a certain way to him.

I'm also not sure what you're talking about.

[Marmot]

Somewhere in there Vompatti self-voted.

If everyone else just follows suit, rabbit would be lynched. Rabbit, you'd be ok voting for yourself to clinch your lynch, right?

Given the baddie role that has been talked about - the one who gains strength from votes that don't lynch him - I think we ought to be uber-wary about self-voting in this game.

[rabbit8]

Somewhere in there Vompatti self-voted.

If everyone else just follows suit, rabbit would be lynched. Rabbit, you'd be ok voting for yourself to clinch your lynch, right?

Given the baddie role that has been talked about - the one who gains strength from votes that don't lynch him - I think we ought to be uber-wary about self-voting in this game.

Sarcasm? I just skipped it.

Why would I want to be lynched because Golden got upset and threw his vote away for me?

And again your question should be directed to Golden, No?

[LizKeen]

Random thoughts because catching up has made me really tired.

I'm not sure I'm as willing to give Mongoose the benefit of the doubt. She said BF's actions revealed something to her but can't pursue it. Then why bring it up? Also the brown-nosing new players. (Even though I am one and like the benefit of the doubt) Trying to get us on your side?


I'm trying not to get into all the back and forth that has gone on the last 48 hours or so because honestly it's exhausting. The thing that worries me most is if it turns out to be civvie on civvie. Though I am a bit surprised Golden voted Rabbit as early as he did for the reason he did. He seems like a very involved player and that seems an odd thing to do. I'm curious what it is bf seems to have figured out about who has certain roles but not enough for him to info dump or mess up anyone elses game.

The self-votes I also find highly suspect. Perhaps Reed Bardeen is in that lot trying to get votes for power. Although MP just seems generally out of sorts and I hope takes some time for himself and feels better. Hope you don't quit.


I don't understand the host post about reading the rules and and getting nothing perhaps being a better option than actually getting an item.

So these front page pics...can they be NSFW?

[Zombarella]

I just reread my post from earlier and woo boy I made a lot of typos. Sorry. Here's some more thoughts a la zomba:

BF - In my last post it looked like I was getting after Golden for talking about the will. I meant for that to be directed at you.

Rabbit - I agree that self-posters aren't automatically baddies but that their behavior doesn't really help the civs either.

MM - I'm bugged that you self-voted, AGAIN! However, the wedgie elephant made me laugh. You sir, might be a weirdo.

MP - I forgive you for any offense, real or imagined. Also, I will share my ECON homework with you if it will help.

SVS - I only skimmed your posts. I'm going to read in more detail later. Then comment.

Dom - I totally thought that you were trying to imply that Juliets was a baddie when you asked her about her use of the word "us". If that's not what you meant, what did you mean?

LC - I guess starting the fire might be something that I PM to the host? I'm afraid of what might happen. I have a few ideas - lighting some kind of fuse maybe? or burning up other papers? - but nothing real to go on at all. If anyone has any ideas at all I would love to hear them.

I don't have a baddie list yet and since we have almost 48 hours left till the lynch I'm gonna hold off on my vote.

Tons of linki...

[LizKeen]

Rabbit - I agree that self-posters aren't automatically baddies but that their behavior doesn't really help the civs either.

[Golden]

Lizkeen - there isn't much I can do to defend myself against my vote. It was an emotional vote. It was something I needed to do for me. It is exactly the kind of thing I'd call out other people for, and that I don't usually do.

I wish I hadn't, because I want to act on the opinions I actually have on who is bad, and I don't think rabbit is bad. Right now I'd prefer to be voting Epi, or possibly Dom. But I'm glad I did, because I genuinely think it helped me blow off steam and not quit the game. I needed to get stuff off my chest. I've been feeling way better today than I was yesterday, in large part because of it. I'm kinda hoping this vote for rabbit won't come up again and again, but I recognise that when you let stuff get into the mafia thread, you've made it part of the game. I'm sorry I did that, llama is right that I should have gone to him first before venting in the thread. But I did do it. So there you go.

[Zombarella]

There are several people that we haven't heard from at all. I know that on this site, laying low keeps you alive but Zomba no likey.

Vompatti, you seem like you might be playing your own little game with your own self. Possible weirdo label switch from MM to Vomps.

Golden, why Epi?

[Golden]

@zombs - because Epi wasn't getting his story straight on bf.

He did that whole 'double check, are you sure you are addressing this to me' think to bf around the linki...

Then a bit later, he said he wasn't suspicious of bf...

Then later, he's on bf for linki on that original 'are you addressing this to me' thing... and saying he thinks bf is bullshitting.

Apparently thats just epi, but generally if people flip flop on their story, I don't trust them. I don't know why epi gets a pass for changing his story back and forth as to whether or not he suspects bf.

He's been my number one suspect for a while, and I haven't seen anything from him that makes me think otherwise.

[S~V~S]

Catching up on Epi v Rabbit v Golden was interesting. I see a lot of philosophy "discussion" in our future as the three are very strong individuals with very diverse opinions on the game in general. While Epi in his last post made his disdain for the concept of "civvie behavior" clear, I do and always have disagreed with him. There are certain things a civvie just should not do. Being obstructionist for his own obscure reasons is one of those things, IMO. Epi has gone rather quiet after the three way the other night.

Personally, I also found Epi to be waffly re BF/Golden. I was the person initially pinged by them, and BF was the one doing the pinging, not Golden. Epi pointing out how BFs behavior was consistent with his behavior in an ongoing game, then (imo) seeming to appear (it is hard sometimes even with 3 reads to tell what Epi is *actually* saying or doing, thus the "seeming") to be trying to shift that Buddying thing onto Golden, makes me super wary of him.

I have a busy day tomorrow, and will be in the middle of D & D when the poll ends. Not 100% sure I will be here tonight, so i am going to vote now, I don't see me changing my mind.

*Votes BF*

Now, re this "us" thing of Doms. That is an astonishingly quibbly question, lol. I am not sure why bad Dom would pose it, especially to Juliets on Day One. I understood what she meant right off the bat, and when i first read that question it raised my brow a bit. Again, not sure why bad Dom would ask it. Then not sure why civ Dom would ask it, either.

I don't love self voting either, like LC says (if he did not say it in this game, he said it in another) it's an easy way to set yourself up for no accountability when you ARE a baddie. And I can understand that. When I first started playing, like many people, my civvie game was very distinct from my baddie game. Most people in that situation try to make their baddie game more like their civvie game. I did the opposite. I took a lot of lynches in civvie games, but it set me up for the old "but she acts like this bad or good" chestnut for quite a while until the aggression started creeping back into my civvie game, and more hosts started running one Mafia games. Hosts, y u do that?

This is a Llama game. Want to hear a helluva lot more from Mongoose. Quiet Mongoose is scary Mongoose. Other than the self vote, I want to hear more from MM~ is he posting content, or snappy comebacks & jokes? Who does Bullz suspect? I don't recall anything BWT has said, like at all.

[Golden]

BWT just posted once and did say he would be away a couple of days, I think.

[Elohcin]

FOURTEEN PAGES!? I guess I better get reading. I was unable to read much yesterday (Thursdays are packed full of RL with no time away) and left off on page 6 (I think). I have school, house cleaning, and a wedding cake today, but I am going to try to read through. Sorry guys!

[zeek]

Epi has gone rather quiet after the three way the other night.

Please, tell me more

[thellama73]

FOURTEEN PAGES!? I guess I better get reading. I was unable to read much yesterday (Thursdays are packed full of RL with no time away) and left off on page 6 (I think). I have school, house cleaning, and a wedding cake today, but I am going to try to read through. Sorry guys!

Let's break Death Note's record, you guys.

[rabbit8]

So I will have to vote when I wake up. I will be leaving for the states and will not be around for the lynch, I think. So my best vote right now would be, Epi.........


Fuck you Golden. I know you are going to be biting at the bit to respond to this thought. So don't.

Because my other thought would be BF. Who does not consider all roles when they get info. Baddies with an agenda, or....................civvies who are too gung ho to actually think before they post. So this one is, meh.

The again I could always vote for a self voter. But nah, I'm not into behavior modification through punishments. They have been proven through study to do more harm than good. What, corpral punishment next for self voting?

[Long Con]

Ideally, yes.

[juliets]

Dom, I was not including baddies in my "us" but I wasn't excluding the celestials who do not need any of us (civs) dead to win. I hope this fully explains what I mean by "us". I am not lying, I don't know why you think I would be. I, like others, do not understand your point.

[birdwithteeth11]

Wow. 14 pages already?! You fools must be trying to go for the Death Note record, huh?

Now that I'm back home and have plenty of sleep from last night, I'm going to start reading the thread from the beginning.

[Marmot]

Lizkeen - there isn't much I can do to defend myself against my vote. It was an emotional vote. It was something I needed to do for me. It is exactly the kind of thing I'd call out other people for, and that I don't usually do.

Indeed. You strike me as a tactful player that makes logical decisions, especially after seeing this post earlier from you today.

I feel like the death of Mr Spock has left a logic deficit in the world.

It's the only thing I can take from this game so far.

[Marmot]

This is a Llama game. Want to hear a helluva lot more from Mongoose. Quiet Mongoose is scary Mongoose. Other than the self vote, I want to hear more from MM~ is he posting content, or snappy comebacks & jokes? Who does Bullz suspect? I don't recall anything BWT has said, like at all.

It's been about 90% snappy comebacks and jokes so far from me. You'll see more content from me in the future.

[Epignosis]

I'm so pissed. I composed a large post with URLs and quotes and got the effing filter page when I hit preview. Got it again hitting back on the browser.

But uh-uh. I'll format this in the damn Death Note thread and copy and paste in the quick reply box if I have to.

[juliets]

Epi, i learned this the hard way - do a copy so you've got it on your clip board before you preview if it's a long involved post.

[Epignosis]

I almost always do. Didn't the one time it mattered.

[Black Rock]

Dom, I was not including baddies in my "us" but I wasn't excluding the celestials who do not need any of us (civs) dead to win. I hope this fully explains what I mean by "us". I am not lying, I don't know why you think I would be. I, like others, do not understand your point.

Dom, I also don't understand where you are going with this. It was very clear to me with her first post that she was speaking of those in the thread from the beginning. She quoted a post where several people in the thread had already said something about it. It's not very likely at all that her "us" meant anything else at all. To me this is a closed subject and I am only going to address this now.

I am going to look at SVS further, I know she has explained her vote but I am not seeing it like her so I'm going to try and understand it more.

I am a little lost on who I will vote for now. I'm hoping MM will put some more effort in.

[Epignosis]

Never mind. I can't even access the quotes I wanted to pull anymore. Oh well. Don't care. Posting what I think anyway, without links or quotes, quick and dirty.

S~V~S: Two Thursdays out of the month are always very busy for us. Yesterday was one of those.

Trying to decide who is bad between two people when you only have one vote to cast is hardly "waffling."

Regarding blindfaeth: He has named or complied with at least five suspicions on Day 1: Bullzeye, Turnip Head, Long Con, MP, and me. He went from saying Black Rock had a great post (or something like that) about MP, but later said that he would be suspicious of anyone who voted for MP, thus adding to his potential pool of Day 1 suspects. He strikes me as someone trying to get something rolling on just about anyone, but doesn't want to cast the first stone.

[Black Rock]

Interesting take on BF, I hadn't looked at it that way.

[Epignosis]

I remember something else I wrote. BF told Dom (paraphrasing) that he takes what Golden says more objectively, but when Dom pressed him on it, BF said, "show me where I said I trusted Golden." The discussion came down to BF saying that he did not trust Golden, but that he didn't NOT trust Golden either. That's doublespeak. blindfaeth puts more stock in what Golden says than he does anybody else, yet he assures us that isn't him trusting Golden out of the gate.