Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]

[juliets]

I have to get some things done this afternoon so need to go ahead and vote.

SVS and LC showed me the error of my ways in thinking the best idea would be to vote BF whether you think he's bad or good. So, since I think he's a civ who just didn't completely think things through - he even said he didn't think about the person with the will being Oliver or someone with a prize that was worth something or any other possibility but the millionaire. I think he got in too deep and then couldn't find a way out. I hate that we are probably losing him because i love to play with blindfaeth.

So I'm going back to my first suspicion and that was MM. I see MM as a potential baddie for three reasons:
1. He voted 2 full days early for himself. I would have greater leniency if he had voted for himself at the last minute after having major troubles deciding who to vote but voting early means he intentionally ruled out a person who was bad slipping up or saying/doing something that meant a high percentage chance that s/he was a baddie. Why would you do that?
2. Voting for himself takes all the accountability away from making a decision between potential baddie candidates and civ candidates. It allows you to sit back with all the pressure off of you and watch the game, making some funny or even serious comments but knowing you're not under pressure.
3. MM just voted himself in Death Note and was bad.

And as an added note I think if he is not bad he is doing this so eventually everyone will just say "thats just MM" and we don't need another one of those situations to contend with.

Vompatti also is on my suspicion list but as LC pointed out, I did not just play a game with Vompatti where he voted himself and was bad. I did just play a game with MM where he voted himself and was bad (Death Note). Mp is obviously a different situation all together and I didn't consider him for a vote.

So with that I'm

*voting Metalmarsh*

[Dom]

Don't be sorry, please pile on the votes, I would rather die than talk to walls

Why is everyone who disagrees with you a wall?
Why won't you provide evidence for your "suspicion" of me?

[blindfaeth]

Don't care enough

[Dom]

Very civilian like of you.

[Marmot]

I have to get some things done this afternoon so need to go ahead and vote.

SVS and LC showed me the error of my ways in thinking the best idea would be to vote BF whether you think he's bad or good. So, since I think he's a civ who just didn't completely think things through - he even said he didn't think about the person with the will being Oliver or someone with a prize that was worth something or any other possibility but the millionaire. I think he got in too deep and then couldn't find a way out. I hate that we are probably losing him because i love to play with blindfaeth.

So I'm going back to my first suspicion and that was MM. I see MM as a potential baddie for three reasons:
1. He voted 2 full days early for himself. I would have greater leniency if he had voted for himself at the last minute after having major troubles deciding who to vote but voting early means he intentionally ruled out a person who was bad slipping up or saying/doing something that meant a high percentage chance that s/he was a baddie. Why would you do that?
2. Voting for himself takes all the accountability away from making a decision between potential baddie candidates and civ candidates. It allows you to sit back with all the pressure off of you and watch the game, making some funny or even serious comments but knowing you're not under pressure.
3. MM just voted himself in Death Note and was bad.

And as an added note I think if he is not bad he is doing this so eventually everyone will just say "thats just MM" and we don't need another one of those situations to contend with.

Vompatti also is on my suspicion list but as LC pointed out, I did not just play a game with Vompatti where he voted himself and was bad. I did just play a game with MM where he voted himself and was bad (Death Note). Mp is obviously a different situation all together and I didn't consider him for a vote.

So with that I'm

*voting Metalmarsh*

At no point in Death Note did I vote for myself.

You people and your "facts" have some learning to do.

[blindfaeth]

Very civilian like of you.

LOL I'll pull a rabbit. There is no civilian behavior.

[Turnip Head]

BF I don't understand why you suddenly just give up because people aren't agreeing with you or playing the way you want them to. I understand that sometimes it's hard to work with people but that's like 83% of mafia, working blindly with your fellow civs to figure things out and catch the bad guys. You are giving up first chance you get instead of pushing through. Makes no sense to me.

I'm going to vote Dom because he's still my top suspicion and I don't think you're bad, but frankly I'm okay with you being lynched because it seems you don't want to play anymore, and people giving up because they're being suspected is frankly getting old.

[blindfaeth]

BF I don't understand why you suddenly just give up because people aren't agreeing with you or playing the way you want them to. I understand that sometimes it's hard to work with people but that's like 83% of mafia, working blindly with your fellow civs to figure things out and catch the bad guys. You are giving up first chance you get instead of pushing through. Makes no sense to me.

I'm going to vote Dom because he's still my top suspicion and I don't think you're bad, but frankly I'm okay with you being lynched because it seems you don't want to play anymore, and people giving up because they're being suspected is frankly getting old.

Yeah right TH. I had 77 posts before I gave up. I got tired of talking in circles. And frankly it's day one, not worth it. Rather start fresh in flash tbh. Don't act like I didn't try because I did. 77 posts of trying.

[Bullzeye]

Now, re this "us" thing of Doms. That is an astonishingly quibbly question, lol. I am not sure why bad Dom would pose it, especially to Juliets on Day One. I understood what she meant right off the bat, and when i first read that question it raised my brow a bit. Again, not sure why bad Dom would ask it. Then not sure why civ Dom would ask it, either.

Kinda reminded me of the Pokemon game where he decided I was his prime suspect because I'd asked a question (I think about the NK?) that I'd have already known the answer to if I was bad. We were both civs. Sometimes I think Dom has... interesting reasons to question/suspect people (I usually only think this when it's me, tbf) but he's not unique in that way. I'm still feeling pretty okay about him right now.

I don't love self voting either, like LC says (if he did not say it in this game, he said it in another) it's an easy way to set yourself up for no accountability when you ARE a baddie. And I can understand that. When I first started playing, like many people, my civvie game was very distinct from my baddie game. Most people in that situation try to make their baddie game more like their civvie game. I did the opposite. I took a lot of lynches in civvie games, but it set me up for the old "but she acts like this bad or good" chestnut for quite a while until the aggression started creeping back into my civvie game, and more hosts started running one Mafia games. Hosts, y u do that?

I don't usually mind or care about self-voting, especially on day one, but we do have a baddie who gains power from votes (do we even know what that means?). It might be something worth bearing in mind. Not everyone who self-votes can be that baddie, but it's still a possibility for someone.

This is a Llama game. Want to hear a helluva lot more from Mongoose. Quiet Mongoose is scary Mongoose. Other than the self vote, I want to hear more from MM~ is he posting content, or snappy comebacks & jokes? Who does Bullz suspect? I don't recall anything BWT has said, like at all.

Good question! Hopefully I'll let you know somewhere in the course of this post. Am catching up and quoting/responding to things as I go.

Because my other thought would be BF. Who does not consider all roles when they get info. Baddies with an agenda, or....................civvies who are too gung ho to actually think before they post. So this one is, meh.

Good point. It's why I don't currently think BF is bad. I just think he's a 'gung ho' misguided civ who has a different way of thinking to many of our community. Doesn't make him bad, but looking at the poll I'm one of only a few who think that way.

Oh well, if people are interested in lynching me I suppose I'll share what I know. At least if I die, SVS won't be able to lie to you about whose will it is. It is Zomberellas will. The reason I did not come after her in the thread as many of you suggested is because she was literally absent for so long. Which I think is oddly convenient, but whatever. Final thoughts, I think dom is bad, he's only analytical like this when he has a team. I think epi and bills are bad. Think SVS is misguided. Good luck

Well, I think BF ruined my role. Thanks, for that. Civvie or not, you blew it!

Does anyone else think if Zomb were actually the baddie BF is so sure she is, her team would've coached her a better response than this?

Epig said it before, it was convenient for BF that the "name" on the will was someone who hadn't been around to discuss or defend herself. BF pointed it out as baddie behavior, but I feel like we already know why Zomba wasn't around, and it speaks nothing of alignment. And on that note, I didn't post at all until about the same time Zomba did, and nobody's pointing fingers at me for it.

I would find it more believable that the player's role name would be listed on the will rather than the player name.

Linki: Hi Bullzeye.

Hi! You make some good points here. A quite quiet person might be expected to not actually show up and defend themselves in the time it would take for them to be bandwagoned after being "outed". I also don't think being quiet is baddie behaviour anyway. In fact, when I'm bad I feel more compelled to post. As a solo civvie I'm only letting myself down if I don't post but when I have teammates of any alignment I feel like I'd be letting everyone down by not being around. Also agree re: the player's role name. I don't see Llama giving away the name of a baddie for free.

What would be interesting is if she really was the Millionaire. Then by mentioning her name, BF would be getting her votes, but her lynch is far from a done deal. He did not mention her name until he had several votes. So if she is that role, BF would actually be helping her get some votes, which her role could use if she is not lynched. And if she was lynched, he would get tons of cred.

When life hands you lemons, make lemonade, right?

There is also the fact that if they were both working together, there are enough anti-infodump people to ensure that she'd probably be safe for a few days to gather just a small number of votes - not enough to kill her but enough to charge up a baddie's power. I dunno though. I don't think I actually believe that's what has happened at all, just throwing stuff out there.

I mean we're entering a world with many glasses of wine that are just sitting there to be drunk.

Sounds like a fun world to live in!

Don't be sorry, please pile on the votes, I would rather die than talk to walls

Why is everyone who disagrees with you a wall?
Why won't you provide evidence for your "suspicion" of me?

If it's anything like his "evidence" against me, I wouldn't worry. I still don't think BF is bad. He's not helpful, but that doesn't make him bad.

Not sure who to actually vote for. I can see how MM or any self-voter could be bad but they can't all be and there's not much else to go on in that debate. I do think it's odd how Liz voted for Zomb without comment and seemingly without considering the range of alternative explanations but I don't feel strongly enough about that. I will spend some time considering where to put my vote, but I'm aware of how little time is actually left.

Linki - agree with TH, giving up doesn't help anyone at all.

[Marmot]

My other likely vote then, is Metalmarsh, for his self-vote. Still deciding between him and BF right now.

Go pick on someone else.

Stop self-voting Day One then. Sorry, but it's always going to be suspicious to me, and I'm always going to consider a vote for you for it. Vompatti always acts suspicious as well, and his self-vote is totally suspicious too, but you are moreso because I have definite proof that you do this as a baddie. And MP is not as suspicious for the vote because he was having trouble controlling his emotions when he self-voted.

I think it's reasonably likely that you are bad this time, and trying to hide behind your self-vote. Especially the WAY you did it, like it was the new cool thing after Vomps and MP did it. That makes it MORE suspicious to me.

*votes MM*

But you didn't address vomps' self-vote until I brought it up to you.

Same with MP's self-vote. You didn't address it until I brought it up to you.

My point is that you are clearly more interested in figuring out "my" pattern than to look at someone else's "bizarre" move. Voting for me because I've done it before shows an interest in your own personal agenda regarding all of mafia, rather than the specific setting of this single game of mafia. This leads me to believe that your motives, whether good or bad, are not founded on the civilian interest for this game.

[Bullzeye]

A lot of people are way too quiet for my liking in this game... I think I'll random between the most silent and give them a vote to wake them up.

[Marmot]

Also, I know being lynched sucks. Is it just me, or are people getting extremely testy lately when suspicion gets thrown their way?

[Long Con]

My other likely vote then, is Metalmarsh, for his self-vote. Still deciding between him and BF right now.

Go pick on someone else.

Stop self-voting Day One then. Sorry, but it's always going to be suspicious to me, and I'm always going to consider a vote for you for it. Vompatti always acts suspicious as well, and his self-vote is totally suspicious too, but you are moreso because I have definite proof that you do this as a baddie. And MP is not as suspicious for the vote because he was having trouble controlling his emotions when he self-voted.

I think it's reasonably likely that you are bad this time, and trying to hide behind your self-vote. Especially the WAY you did it, like it was the new cool thing after Vomps and MP did it. That makes it MORE suspicious to me.

*votes MM*

But you didn't address vomps' self-vote until I brought it up to you.

Same with MP's self-vote. You didn't address it until I brought it up to you.

My point is that you are clearly more interested in figuring out "my" pattern than to look at someone else's "bizarre" move. Voting for me because I've done it before shows an interest in your own personal agenda regarding all of mafia, rather than the specific setting of this single game of mafia. This leads me to believe that your motives, whether good or bad, are not founded on the civilian interest for this game.

Quite the contrary - YOU are the one who we know has voted for themselves as a baddie before. I I'm not talking about Death Note, if you have a problem with any of MY facts, then you'll have to specify which ones, because I'm sure I have them straight.

[Bullzeye]

Did as I said I would, got *Canuck*. Not an actual suspicion, and I'm aware of what I said earlier. Just a case of having nobody I want to vote for and wanting to encourage quiet people to actually get involved.

Also, I know being lynched sucks. Is it just me, or are people getting extremely testy lately when suspicion gets thrown their way?

This game is my only experience of mafia in the past 6 months, but yeah it seems that way. When I first started playing though it seemed much the same.

[Marmot]

My other likely vote then, is Metalmarsh, for his self-vote. Still deciding between him and BF right now.

Go pick on someone else.

Stop self-voting Day One then. Sorry, but it's always going to be suspicious to me, and I'm always going to consider a vote for you for it. Vompatti always acts suspicious as well, and his self-vote is totally suspicious too, but you are moreso because I have definite proof that you do this as a baddie. And MP is not as suspicious for the vote because he was having trouble controlling his emotions when he self-voted.

I think it's reasonably likely that you are bad this time, and trying to hide behind your self-vote. Especially the WAY you did it, like it was the new cool thing after Vomps and MP did it. That makes it MORE suspicious to me.

*votes MM*

But you didn't address vomps' self-vote until I brought it up to you.

Same with MP's self-vote. You didn't address it until I brought it up to you.

My point is that you are clearly more interested in figuring out "my" pattern than to look at someone else's "bizarre" move. Voting for me because I've done it before shows an interest in your own personal agenda regarding all of mafia, rather than the specific setting of this single game of mafia. This leads me to believe that your motives, whether good or bad, are not founded on the civilian interest for this game.

Quite the contrary - YOU are the one who we know has voted for themselves as a baddie before. I I'm not talking about Death Note, if you have a problem with any of MY facts, then you'll have to specify which ones, because I'm sure I have them straight.

And you know I have done it as a civilian before. So what I want to know is why either possibility from previous games has any indication on my alignment this game. For some reason, you believe it proves I'm bad, or you just want to lynch me to find out.

[thellama73]

The Day ends in 30 minutes. 8 votes still missing. Everything to play for!

[Marmot]

That's a lot of people not voting right there.

A Person
Bea
Black Rock
Canucklehead
DFaraday
fingersplints
ShepinWolfsClothing
Sophie/Mongoose

[Black Rock]

I voted BF, his lynch will give us some information. I don't trust Zomba but she is not likely going to be lynched today. She is getting the benefit of the doubt today but I'll be revisiting her again tomorrow.

[Dom]

A lot of people are way too quiet for my liking in this game... I think I'll random between the most silent and give them a vote to wake them up.

Why?

[Long Con]

My other likely vote then, is Metalmarsh, for his self-vote. Still deciding between him and BF right now.

Go pick on someone else.

Stop self-voting Day One then. Sorry, but it's always going to be suspicious to me, and I'm always going to consider a vote for you for it. Vompatti always acts suspicious as well, and his self-vote is totally suspicious too, but you are moreso because I have definite proof that you do this as a baddie. And MP is not as suspicious for the vote because he was having trouble controlling his emotions when he self-voted.

I think it's reasonably likely that you are bad this time, and trying to hide behind your self-vote. Especially the WAY you did it, like it was the new cool thing after Vomps and MP did it. That makes it MORE suspicious to me.

*votes MM*

But you didn't address vomps' self-vote until I brought it up to you.

Same with MP's self-vote. You didn't address it until I brought it up to you.

My point is that you are clearly more interested in figuring out "my" pattern than to look at someone else's "bizarre" move. Voting for me because I've done it before shows an interest in your own personal agenda regarding all of mafia, rather than the specific setting of this single game of mafia. This leads me to believe that your motives, whether good or bad, are not founded on the civilian interest for this game.

Quite the contrary - YOU are the one who we know has voted for themselves as a baddie before. I I'm not talking about Death Note, if you have a problem with any of MY facts, then you'll have to specify which ones, because I'm sure I have them straight.

And you know I have done it as a civilian before. So what I want to know is why either possibility from previous games has any indication on my alignment this game. For some reason, you believe it proves I'm bad, or you just want to lynch me to find out.

I believe you do it as a Civvie just so that you can get off easy when you do it as a baddie. In neither way does it ever help the Civvies, and when you do it as a baddie, you are helping the baddies. So I see it as overall baddie behaviour.

[Bullzeye]

A lot of people are way too quiet for my liking in this game... I think I'll random between the most silent and give them a vote to wake them up.

Why?

Because I've got nothing better to do with my life. Didn't find anyone suspicious enough to vote for, didn't want to miss the vote, decided to see if I could make someone pay attention to the game instead.

[Bullzeye]

Essentially, if I'm going to have to throw away my vote, I'd rather it not be for someone who is actually putting in a lot of effort.

[thellama73]

Who is the Blond Beast of Bremen?

Poll ended at Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:10:58 pm

A Person
0
No votes

bea
0
No votes

birdwithteeth11
0
No votes

Black Rock
0
No votes

blindfaeth
8
S~V~S (7), Dom (8), rabbit8 (9), Epignosis (10), birdwithteeth11 (13), Zomberella12 (15), Elohcin (16), Black Rock (20)
40%

Bullzeye
0
No votes

Canucklehead
1
Bullzeye (19)
5%

DFaraday
0
No votes

Dom
1
Turnip Head (18)
5%

Elohcin
0
No votes

Epignosis
1
blindfaeth (11)
5%

fingersplints
0
No votes

Golden
0
No votes

juliets
0
No votes

LizKeen
0
No votes

Long Con
0
No votes

Metalmarsh89
3
Metalmarsh89 (6), Long Con (14), juliets (17)
15%

Mongoose
0
No votes

Movingpictures07
1
MovingPictures07 (4)
5%

rabbit8
1
Golden (3)
5%

ShepinWolfsClothing
0
No votes

S~V~S
0
No votes

Turnip Head
0
No votes

Vompatti
1
Vompatti (5)
5%

Zomberella12
1
LizKeen (12)
5%

The Paperboy (Host/Mod/Dead/NP)
2
thellama73 (1), zeek (2)
10%


Total votes : 20

[thellama73]

Night 1

After a while, Casimir Jech grew tired of all the people loitering around outside his shopping and killing each other. "If you're not going to buy anything else, get packing!" he snarled.

Not wishing to aggravate the old man more than necessary, the group looked around, surveying their surroundings.

Here they were smack in the middle of the Loop in Chicago - London of the West! Across from Jech's shop, Chief O'Toole's police station stood square and menacing next to a sign reading 22nd St. With the Blond Beast of Bremen still on the loose, it seemed comforting to have the police so near, but it also seemed like a good idea to stick together. Who knows what kind of interesting sights and sounds you might encounter by exploring this lively and colorful city? But where to begin?

Blindfaeth has been lynched. He was Simon Grundt.
You have 24 hours to send in your night action.

[Dom]

RIP BF :/

[Golden]

I really want to get to play with my fellow lawyer mongoose, but on the other hand I'm really pleased to see sophie

And bf... rip.

[S~V~S]

Sorry BF

[Golden]

Golden - I know you are getting the drfunk bea you've missed so much -but isn't what I'm saying logical? Maybe? Just maybe? it wasn't the best move for BF to make. Maybe- just maybe - he should have kept his info to himself - instead of painting a target on someone (zombra ) who has a 50/50 chance of being a civ. As well as anyone who would inherit his will post his demise. If BF is a civ - he's painted a target on two other potential civs. On Day 1. How is that logical "civ" game play?

Your perspective absolutely is logical, bea. Which is why I hoped bf would survive, and some unknown civvie would steal the will from him. But I don't think two opposing points of view can't both be logical. I think bfs move was risky, but I also think it was logical.

Anyway, now that he is a proven civ, I guess that's easy for me to say! So, I'll just move on from my defence of bfs move and say... Once again I think some unknown civ should steal the will from svs tonight, so that there is no longer a target associated with the will (other than on zombra...)

It's pretty clear bf played it wrong in hindsight, but at the time I would have done the same, I think.

[juliets]

MM, I'm very sorry I mixed up the Death Note game with the one where voted yourself. My apologies - my memory was shouting out it was Death Note but it wasn't. I'm comfortable dropping that particular part of my suspicion and just say you have done it when bad and done it when good which you have admitted. The part that bothered me the most was the two days ahead of time vote without waiting for things to develop.

RIP BF. That was just an unfortunate situation and I'm sorry you were the one involved.

[Turnip Head]

Rest in peace BF.

[Bullzeye]

Golden - I know you are getting the drfunk bea you've missed so much -but isn't what I'm saying logical? Maybe? Just maybe? it wasn't the best move for BF to make. Maybe- just maybe - he should have kept his info to himself - instead of painting a target on someone (zombra ) who has a 50/50 chance of being a civ. As well as anyone who would inherit his will post his demise. If BF is a civ - he's painted a target on two other potential civs. On Day 1. How is that logical "civ" game play?

Your perspective absolutely is logical, bea. Which is why I hoped bf would survive, and some unknown civvie would steal the will from him. But I don't think two opposing points of view can't both be logical. I think bfs move was risky, but I also think it was logical.

Anyway, now that he is a proven civ, I guess that's easy for me to say! So, I'll just move on from my defence of bfs move and say... Once again I think some unknown civ should steal the will from svs tonight, so that there is no longer a target associated with the will (other than on zombra...)

It's pretty clear bf played it wrong in hindsight, but at the time I would have done the same, I think.

Does the will really matter any more at this point? Unless BF lied about what it said, we already know everything about it, right?

[S~V~S]

Also, I did receive the will. All it says is that if Zomba dies, whoever holds the will will get everything she has. It does NOT say she is wealthy. Just becasue she has a will does not mean she is rich. Normally I would not even post this, but since her name was already out there, I just want to confirm that BF was not lying, but that there is nothing that indicates a specific role holds the will. I thought BF might have been witholding something, but he was not.

[Dom]

Golden - I know you are getting the drfunk bea you've missed so much -but isn't what I'm saying logical? Maybe? Just maybe? it wasn't the best move for BF to make. Maybe- just maybe - he should have kept his info to himself - instead of painting a target on someone (zombra ) who has a 50/50 chance of being a civ. As well as anyone who would inherit his will post his demise. If BF is a civ - he's painted a target on two other potential civs. On Day 1. How is that logical "civ" game play?

Your perspective absolutely is logical, bea. Which is why I hoped bf would survive, and some unknown civvie would steal the will from him. But I don't think two opposing points of view can't both be logical. I think bfs move was risky, but I also think it was logical.

Anyway, now that he is a proven civ, I guess that's easy for me to say! So, I'll just move on from my defence of bfs move and say... Once again I think some unknown civ should steal the will from svs tonight, so that there is no longer a target associated with the will (other than on zombra...)

It's pretty clear bf played it wrong in hindsight, but at the time I would have done the same, I think.

Does the will really matter any more at this point? Unless BF lied about what it said, we already know everything about it, right?

The will gives that person all of Zomba's items upon her death, no?

[S~V~S]

It would appear so.

[Bullzeye]

Golden - I know you are getting the drfunk bea you've missed so much -but isn't what I'm saying logical? Maybe? Just maybe? it wasn't the best move for BF to make. Maybe- just maybe - he should have kept his info to himself - instead of painting a target on someone (zombra ) who has a 50/50 chance of being a civ. As well as anyone who would inherit his will post his demise. If BF is a civ - he's painted a target on two other potential civs. On Day 1. How is that logical "civ" game play?

Your perspective absolutely is logical, bea. Which is why I hoped bf would survive, and some unknown civvie would steal the will from him. But I don't think two opposing points of view can't both be logical. I think bfs move was risky, but I also think it was logical.

Anyway, now that he is a proven civ, I guess that's easy for me to say! So, I'll just move on from my defence of bfs move and say... Once again I think some unknown civ should steal the will from svs tonight, so that there is no longer a target associated with the will (other than on zombra...)

It's pretty clear bf played it wrong in hindsight, but at the time I would have done the same, I think.

Does the will really matter any more at this point? Unless BF lied about what it said, we already know everything about it, right?

The will gives that person all of Zomba's items upon her death, no?

I suppose so. But don't baddies get your items when they kill you anyway? I feel like that point came up a few times in BF's posts.

[Golden]

@dom - Do you read mine? Because, the starting point of my suspicion of you was when you didn't, and tried to stir up more heat on me (when I already had it from other sources) without reading my posts properly. I find you suspicious for the call you made on JC. I can keep saying it all day if you like. I didn't find it overly suspicious, but I never said I did. Nothing you can possibly ever say will make me take back that I found it suspicious. The only thing you can do is to continue to make me think your overdefensiveness is the sign of someone who didn't like to be called out for something they don't feel they did, but know that the ultimate truth is still the same - the Aces defence, if you want a recent example.

You didn't find my overly suspicious but wanted to vote me?
Nothing I could say could change your suspicion of me that is based on things that did not happen?
Sounds like you are #1) a liar and #2) someone who does not hold high regard for facts.

I don't think I could say anything to you. You'd twist it into a suspicion of me for no reason whatsoever other than I suspect Blindfaeth because you two have apparently decided whose opinions matter and whose do not in a game about opinions. You two have said that you trust each other, that you do not care what anyone else thinks. Please, do tell, how the hell anyone is supposed to have a discussion with that?

Yaeh, I do want to know how I'm supposed to have a discussion with someone who keeps calling me a liar and saying I don't care what you think. And accuses me of not being able to read their posts when clearly they don't read mine... or choose to twist them.

I do care what you think, Dom. I'm listening to every word you say. Unfortunately, right now, every word you say is telling me that you are pissed at me for suspecting you, and you don't think I have a right to. I do have a right to. You might be better off looking at your own actions and recognising that, actually, they did look a little hinky. You might be better off realising that, actually, someone might suspect you for it. But you would definitely be better off realising that you are calling me out for making an 'assumption'... that near everyone else made too... while you are busy assuming things about me.

[Black Rock]

Also, I did receive the will. All it says is that if Zomba dies, whoever holds the will will get everything she has. It does NOT say she is wealthy. Just becasue she has a will does not mean she is rich. Normally I would not even post this, but since her name was already out there, I just want to confirm that BF was not lying, but that there is nothing that indicates a specific role holds the will. I thought BF might have been witholding something, but he was not.

Interesting, it sounds like BF might have been reading too much into the will. That does not explain Zombas reaction to her name being said. What do you think about that SVS?

[S~V~S]

She said it ruined her role. It could be the Millionaire or Oliver Oliver. I don;t think her reaction is related to wealth via item, or otherwise. She said role.

[S~V~S]

I hate this fwiw.

[Golden]

There is no way we're both right because both Blindfaeth and Golden have decided I am bad (I am not) on shaky (at best) presumptions they have made. These presumptions are essentially outright lies. I seem to be the only one calling them on this. Tell me, Bea, am I only analytical when I am on a team?

It's very frustrating to talk to a pair of people who have literally said they do not care what anyone else thinks. It's also very frustrating to try and point out why someone is wrong when they literally say, "Nothing you could say could change my mind" when their mind was made up on an incorrect supposition.

How can you not see why I think you are bad when you say stuff like this:

You call ME a liar just for making an presumption while ACTUALLY lying about what I've said. I've never said I don't care what you think.

I have said 'nothing you can say can change the fact your question to JC looks suspicious'. Yes, because it can't. You made that comment, it pinged me, thats that. All you can do is choose how you play the rest of the game. A ping is a ping. I never lose sight of what has pinged me. I have never said 'nothing you could do could make me change my mind about your alignment', and that would be frankly ridiculous.

This game is about making suppositions, to figure out who is bad, I don't know why you are having so much of a problem with that.

[Black Rock]

She said it ruined her role. It could be the Millionaire or Oliver Oliver. I don;t think her reaction is related to wealth via item, or otherwise. She said role.

I get that, my opinion is she is not very likely Oliver Oliver but more likely to be the Millionaire since that was what BF was pushing. No one likes this, but can is opened.

[S~V~S]

You asked me what I thought of it, and I told you.

[Dom]

@dom - Do you read mine? Because, the starting point of my suspicion of you was when you didn't, and tried to stir up more heat on me (when I already had it from other sources) without reading my posts properly. I find you suspicious for the call you made on JC. I can keep saying it all day if you like. I didn't find it overly suspicious, but I never said I did. Nothing you can possibly ever say will make me take back that I found it suspicious. The only thing you can do is to continue to make me think your overdefensiveness is the sign of someone who didn't like to be called out for something they don't feel they did, but know that the ultimate truth is still the same - the Aces defence, if you want a recent example.

You didn't find my overly suspicious but wanted to vote me?
Nothing I could say could change your suspicion of me that is based on things that did not happen?
Sounds like you are #1) a liar and #2) someone who does not hold high regard for facts.

I don't think I could say anything to you. You'd twist it into a suspicion of me for no reason whatsoever other than I suspect Blindfaeth because you two have apparently decided whose opinions matter and whose do not in a game about opinions. You two have said that you trust each other, that you do not care what anyone else thinks. Please, do tell, how the hell anyone is supposed to have a discussion with that?

Yaeh, I do want to know how I'm supposed to have a discussion with someone who keeps calling me a liar and saying I don't care what you think. And accuses me of not being able to read their posts when clearly they don't read mine... or choose to twist them.

I do care what you think, Dom. I'm listening to every word you say. Unfortunately, right now, every word you say is telling me that you are pissed at me for suspecting you, and you don't think I have a right to. I do have a right to. You might be better off looking at your own actions and recognising that, actually, they did look a little hinky. You might be better off realising that, actually, someone might suspect you for it. But you would definitely be better off realising that you are calling me out for making an 'assumption'... that near everyone else made too... while you are busy assuming things about me.

I'm not pissed. I see that you're completely ignoring facts. You disregard things I say because it is convenient to do so. I have pointed out to you that ONLY you and BF built suspicions on an ASSUMPTION and then proceeded to present it as fact (in BF's case). You were a part of this. I think that's a poopy reason to suspect someone because it is based on an ASSUMPTION that is WRONG that I have explained and literally everyone else has taken notice but you. I have explained myself so many times and you act like I have not. NO ONE else continues to bring it up as a relevant point of discussion in the context that you do because they realize that LC's speculation was incorrect and that it would not be productive to do so.

There is no way we're both right because both Blindfaeth and Golden have decided I am bad (I am not) on shaky (at best) presumptions they have made. These presumptions are essentially outright lies. I seem to be the only one calling them on this. Tell me, Bea, am I only analytical when I am on a team?

It's very frustrating to talk to a pair of people who have literally said they do not care what anyone else thinks. It's also very frustrating to try and point out why someone is wrong when they literally say, "Nothing you could say could change my mind" when their mind was made up on an incorrect supposition.

How can you not see why I think you are bad when you say stuff like this:

You call ME a liar just for making an presumption while ACTUALLY lying about what I've said. I've never said I don't care what you think.

I have said 'nothing you can say can change the fact your question to JC looks suspicious'. Yes, because it can't. You made that comment, it pinged me, thats that. All you can do is choose how you play the rest of the game. A ping is a ping. I never lose sight of what has pinged me. I have never said 'nothing you could do could make me change my mind about your alignment', and that would be frankly ridiculous.

This game is about making suppositions, to figure out who is bad, I don't know why you are having so much of a problem with that.

So you never admit you're wrong?
You never say, "Wow, those weren't the facts of the situation, I should change my judgements?" That sounds like a load of BS.

You never said you didn't care what I think, but BF did. He said he only cares about what you think-- what kind of picture does that paint for everyone else? Why have I had to explain this like 35 times?

I don't have a problem with figuring out who is bad. I have a problem with you, quite frankly, being so freaking obtuse. You refuse to acknowledge that you lied. You refuse to acknowledge that you weren't right about the suppositions you made. You have YET to do so.
Please, explain to me how the underlined parts of that post are suspicious. (Hint: you didn't do that in that post-- you just said they were-- almost like you're target painting and trying to slander me).

[Elohcin]

RIP BF. Sorry I was wrong.

As I know nothing about the theme, I am not sure where to go next or if we ought to stay put. About about Archer Ave?

[Golden]

Dom, I'm not bf. So don't treat me like I am. Bf got lynched for his perspective. We are best mafia buds, but I'm listening to what everyone has to say, and I have said that about 35 times...

1) I have not lied - if you think I have, please quote the lie.
2) I have no reason to believe I am wrong about the assumptions I've made.

The underlined parts of the post have you calling me a liar (for what, I don't know - you keep using that word), and then saying I had said something that you just admitted I had not said. You want others to believe I'm a liar while you are being a liar. Do you not see why that looks bad to me?

And what I have tried to explain to you, but you refuse to hear, is that there were no 'facts' to that situation. There was only you writing a question that could have meant anything, and you making an explanation later. These are not facts. These are your posts... they could be the truth or they could be backpedalling. They are what I'm supposed to use to try and figure out whether or not you are good or bad. Don't expect me to take your words as gospel truth.

Unless there are some facts I'm missing that you don't think I'm taking into account - like, not your opinion about what you meant when you made the JC post, but actual facts? In which case - tell them to me and I'll listen.

[S~V~S]

I voted Dearborn. I am in the middle of rereading The Dark Tower books, and that name figured in the books.

And BR, I know the point you were making. I think it is a 50/50 on Zomba BUT I think if she had the civ role, she would have said more, and said what she did say differently. I could be wrong

[juliets]

I have no idea what street to choose. The only one I've heard of is Michigan Ave. and i think that's where the ritzy part of town is - like maybe Oprahs house (or one of them anyway). I think I'll see if anyone else knows more about these streets then vote.

[Golden]

By the way, saying 'I have no reason to believe I am wrong' does not = I must be right, or I will never admit I'm wrong...

I just don't think you get to interpret your own words and then tell me I refuse to admit I was wrong.

If mafia could say whatever they liked, 'interpret' those words, and then we had to admit they were wrong, that would be a very strange game.

I'm staying on 22nd, since llama said the police station was there.

[Epignosis]

I, for one, am not surprised this site has such a major bias towards mafia wins if this: "I'd rather trust a man who doesn't shout what he's found." is the prevailing attitude.

I've hosted right around 25% of the games on this site. I can tell you why civilians lose a lot.

That's a lot of people not voting right there.

A Person
Bea
Canucklehead
DFaraday
fingersplints
ShepinWolfsClothing
Sophie/Mongoose

There's one reason.

[Dom]

Unless there are some facts I'm missing that you don't think I'm taking into account - like, not your opinion about what you meant when you made the JC post, but actual facts? In which case - tell them to me and I'll listen.

It's not my opinion what I meant... it's what I meant? Like since when do you have an opinion about what you meant? YOU might not believe me, but you aren't saying that.

You are acting like I never clarified my statement whatsoever. You have paid it no kind. You do not care about this. You care about suspecting me. You place this above being representative of the facts. You are leaving things out for your benefit.

Did you or did you not create suspicion around the comment before even waiting to hear an explanation? Did you or did you not disregard any explanation-- throw it aside as worthless?

Did you do these things?