Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]

[Zombarella]

Zomba. If Zomba is civ, I doubt that SVS is a baddie. But the inverse is far more likely.

I'm confused about this inverse thing. Are you saying that if you lynch SVS and she is civ then you doubt that I am a baddie? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier re the buddying up to me. SVS has had BTSC with me before and she knows this is something that makes me crazy. In fact, I think it's what got me NKd (as a civ) in Death Note. SVS, LC, Bea, Golden, I hope that you guys are civs and that you will listen when I tell you to STOP DEFENDING ME!!!! I will be looking at all three of you during the day tomorrow and if any of you flip bad before I die - so help me - hell hath no fury!

Actually, I understand this perfectly, because I'm the one who reviewed all of SVS's interactions with players and vice versa, and determined you were a very strong candidate for her civvie BTSC partner.

By inverse, I mean that if you are baddie, SVS could be civ. Also you mentioned four players that are defending you, but summed it up to three.

I know I saw that after I pushed submit. I added LC after I remembered his buddy post.

As for MM and Rabbit - all this speculation is just speculation. What if....millionaire...BF lying....SVS lying....you are missing the main point of my posts (on purpose?? ) My whole problem with what BF said was how it was going to affect my role. Let's just say that I am the Millionaire, wouldn't I be wanting votes to make me stronger? How does what he said ruin that role at all? I'll tell you - it doesn't. Your logic is lazy and lazy logic leads to lynched civs.

In Roger Rabbit - the only game where I played a baddie - half our team laid low the whole game and didn't get killed until the very end. I'd bet real money that this is happening again in this game. Where is A Person or BWT, one little post here and there, just enough to get credit for posting without committing to anything?

@LC - I'm going to use my stock certificate to start a fire tonight. Your suggestion intrigued me, it's not doing me any good, and I don't want Rabbit or MM or SVS or to get anything more than a pile of ashes if they decide that I need to die.

A word to the wise; we should not be discussing ongoing games anywhere outside of the designated areas. Yes I realize I did this earlier.

I know this too. It was a calculated risk that I don't think will do any harm. Sorry if this isn't the case. But my point is still valid!

[Marmot]

As for MM and Rabbit - all this speculation is just speculation. What if....millionaire...BF lying....SVS lying....you are missing the main point of my posts (on purpose?? ) My whole problem with what BF said was how it was going to affect my role. Let's just say that I am the Millionaire, wouldn't I be wanting votes to make me stronger? How does what he said ruin that role at all? I'll tell you - it doesn't. Your logic is lazy and lazy logic leads to lynched civs.

In Roger Rabbit - the only game where I played a baddie - half our team laid low the whole game and didn't get killed until the very end. I'd bet real money that this is happening again in this game. Where is A Person or BWT, one little post here and there, just enough to get credit for posting without committing to anything?

@LC - I'm going to use my stock certificate to start a fire tonight. Your suggestion intrigued me, it's not doing me any good, and I don't want Rabbit or MM or SVS or to get anything more than a pile of ashes if they decide that I need to die.

A word to the wise; we should not be discussing ongoing games anywhere outside of the designated areas. Yes I realize I did this earlier.

I know this too. It was a calculated risk that I don't think will do any harm. Sorry if this isn't the case. But my point is still valid!

I can't wait until it is over either, so that I can also openly discuss it.

[Long Con]

I am now going to go with Spacedaisy to her wedding dress fitting and then I have a girl scout meeting at my house and then my son's 13th birthday party. So I won't be around today so that I can respond to every possible suspicion against me so that probably makes me bad too.

Here's what I think. I think that BF might be bad and is trying to get a civ lynched or he's a civ that came in playing this game all wrong (re. Golden), got some heat, and then decided to switch the heat to me by lying or telling the truth or both. Huge question, why didn't he vote for me so that he could get the money he claims he gets when I die???

Killing someone for their money is an inherently bad thing to do. I don't think most players would want to appear that cut-throat. Perhaps it could have been done if BF had not told us about the will situation... he could have come after you, even if he's a Civvie, with secret greed motivations.

Either way, I'm going to vote for him.

My game strategy going forward: I want to look at people who don't read the thread. As I baddie I knew who the civs were so I didn't have to read the thread to try to figure out who was who. On Day 2 I'm going to have an eye out for players who obviously don't know what has been said or claim to be too busy or drunk or whatever to catch up. I'm busy, and I've read all 18 pages of this damn thing! So there!

Zomba out.

+1 I like this, that sounds like a smart way to play.

This is my official "buddying up to Zomba" post, just to make it easier for later when someone accuses me of it.

Thanks. That was easy.

My pleasure! That wasn't defending though, that was liking what you were saying.

[Zombarella]

I am now going to go with Spacedaisy to her wedding dress fitting and then I have a girl scout meeting at my house and then my son's 13th birthday party. So I won't be around today so that I can respond to every possible suspicion against me so that probably makes me bad too.

Here's what I think. I think that BF might be bad and is trying to get a civ lynched or he's a civ that came in playing this game all wrong (re. Golden), got some heat, and then decided to switch the heat to me by lying or telling the truth or both. Huge question, why didn't he vote for me so that he could get the money he claims he gets when I die???

Killing someone for their money is an inherently bad thing to do. I don't think most players would want to appear that cut-throat. Perhaps it could have been done if BF had not told us about the will situation... he could have come after you, even if he's a Civvie, with secret greed motivations.

Either way, I'm going to vote for him.

My game strategy going forward: I want to look at people who don't read the thread. As I baddie I knew who the civs were so I didn't have to read the thread to try to figure out who was who. On Day 2 I'm going to have an eye out for players who obviously don't know what has been said or claim to be too busy or drunk or whatever to catch up. I'm busy, and I've read all 18 pages of this damn thing! So there!

Zomba out.

+1 I like this, that sounds like a smart way to play.

This is my official "buddying up to Zomba" post, just to make it easier for later when someone accuses me of it.

Thanks. That was easy.

My pleasure! That wasn't defending though, that was liking what you were saying.

That's fair.

[Golden]

Zombs - I get the paranoia, but I'm always going to stand up for who I think is civ and go after those I think are bad. It's just the way I play.

But all I'm actually doing, right now, is trying to ensure people keep an open mind. I don't know you are good, but I certainly don't think it is 'obvious' or 'clear' that you must be bad.

[LizKeen]

You gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

You stole my line.

I don't know if baddies can transfer items around between teamies, but my guess is that the vault keeps papers safe from thieves.

I don't think so:

How Items Work

Some items can be used to confer benefits, some cannot. Some items will be consumed when used, some will not. Most items can be stolen. When someone is lynched, all of the items they possess go to the people who voted for them, in order. So the first vote gets the first item, etc. When someone is NKed, whoever performed the kill gets the item. Items may not be voluntarily traded between players.

Transfer and traded are two different things. So I would say it could be possible for a teammate to give an item to put in the safe.

I'm baffled as to why the stock certificate would start a fire. Why would anyone want to burn stock? Unless the stock market crashes.

I'm off to bed but I hope tomorrow doesn't find the whole city burned down.

[S~V~S]

[quote="Zombarella]

@LC - I'm going to use my stock certificate to start a fire tonight. Your suggestion intrigued me, it's not doing me any good, and I don't want Rabbit or MM or SVS or to get anything more than a pile of ashes if they decide that I need to die.[/quote]

What the hell are you talking about? Why would the baddies kill you? Either you are one of them, or if you aren't you are carrying a large burden of suspish.

And why are you lumping me in with other people?

Just got up apparently I need to reread last night.

[S~V~S]

Here is something that caught my eye today. First we have blindfaeth's original revelation that regarding the will.

Well, my item isn't a will for me, it's someone else's will. Like, a specific player, not a role. And if they die, I inherit a large sum of money. That leads me to believe I know the identity of the millionaire. So I wouldn't mind lynching them if other people agree. But for the idea to work, we have to actually lynch them, since he gets stronger from votes that he survives.

I realize I'm probably more quick to take action because I get a benefit regardless, but what does everyone think?

Yes he was quick to take action, and came to the conclusion that the person listed on the will is the millionaire.

That person can also be Oliver Oliver right?

SVS quickly responded that this person might be Oliver Oliver, another rich player. Then we have this amazing post from SVS.

OK, I saw something too

This is all before BF started discussing who he suspected, the will, and why he suspected who he suspected. He got my eye right out of the gate, tbh.

So, I already have a suspicion but I am keeping to myself until day 1 to see how everything plays out.

Golden, do you see what I see?

bf, why did you ask Golden and only Golden that question?

He's my best fran in mafia.

Also we usually agree/see eye to eye.

So, I already have a suspicion but I am keeping to myself until day 1 to see how everything plays out.

Golden, do you see what I see?

As I'm reading back through... because the way you've phrased it makes me now think we are possibly seeing different things.

Mine is definitely more an idea, a category of people, than a single person. But your phrase makes it sound like a suspicion of a particular individual... and that I'm not getting.

Mine is actually two individuals. Grammar nazi

This whole section reads like buddying to me. Like BF is buddying up to Golden BIG TIME. Before the point where he started discussing his item and his suspects, all of his posts were either related to Golden, or bantering, like what do we call Sheepywolf and so forth.

Fairly early on, I dropped this into the thread:

Weds, 5:51 AM

I am intrigued by BF & Golden. Positioning themselves as a Batman & Robin of sorts right out of the gate, sticking cred right onto each other. Then, as Epi pointed out, BF did the same in another game. That is still in progress, but Golden at least was civ there.

Golden addressed this in the next post he made at 2:15:

I am intrigued by BF & Golden. Positioning themselves as a Batman & Robin of sorts right out of the gate, sticking cred right onto each other. Then, as Epi pointed out, BF did the same in another game. That is still in progress, but Golden at least was civ there.

Hey... I'm not sticking any cred into bf.

All I'm doing is saying it is normal for bf to do it, which I think you would know. I don't think it's helpful for the town to go suspecting bf based on something he would do when civ. There is a big difference between saying 'thats normal bf and i don't suspect him for it' and 'thats bf's civvie game'.

A minute later, 2:16, BF replies to Golden who had JUST replied to me, saying he was not sticking any cred on BF, and BF did not mention it AT ALL.

He never addressed it.

Later (and I will make another post later more directly addressing the whole info/Millionaire thing) after listing his suspects:

I disagree strongly with bullz statement.

I can't remember a time when the person lynched on day one didn't feel it was unfair, no matter what the reason. Day one lynches always suck.

Whats the difference between it being unfair because someone has a hunch that their item is a role hint, and it being unfair because someone sees some minutiae in the thread? I don't see one.

I don't like that it is being made some kind of moral issue. It's a host setting - either it's ok or it isn't. (and my eye is squarely on bullz for his comment).

My eye was already on Bulls and turnip head. Was this your hunch? More on this later, I'm at work. But it does in my mind seem to coincide well already.

I asked him:

Can you tell us why, BF, or are you just talking to Golden?

Linki

And then he says "Both" and lauches into his cases against Bullz & TH. He only really addressed his consistent point of addressing all of his posts to Golden when Juliets asked him a direct question.

This was the first thing that struck me; that BF was seriously buddying Golden. Then he brought up that Millionaire thing. The more I have gone over that, the less innocent it seems to me.

I want to hear what Splints thinks of this, as well as Golden. I could be reading more into this than there is. But that was what caught my eye.

Yes she did address blindfaeth's buddying right out of the gate, but agreed it didn't mean anything based on another event in a recent game. But as soon as blindfaeth introduces the will into the thread, SVS went into a hardcore defensive mode over the player who was yet to be revealed. She continued to defend it, and press blindfaeth throughout the day. Most interesting of this whole maneuver is that SVS voted for blindfaeth first, presumably so she could obtain the will. This was her post after the lynch.

Also, I did receive the will. All it says is that if Zomba dies, whoever holds the will will get everything she has. It does NOT say she is wealthy. Just becasue she has a will does not mean she is rich. Normally I would not even post this, but since her name was already out there, I just want to confirm that BF was not lying, but that there is nothing that indicates a specific role holds the will. I thought BF might have been witholding something, but he was not.

Now this post doesn't match up with blindfaeth's statement. blindfaeth suggested he would inherit "a large sum of money". SVS stated that she would inherit "everything she has". SVS then confirmed that the "everything" meant items.

If SVS is on Zomba's team, this is a perfect result. SVS now has the will, and can manipulate its content to the rest of us if she wants.

If SVS is a civvie, I feel that events would have unfolded differently. Would she have voted for an "infodropper" early and before everyone else?

You and I consistently understand each other in every game. You don't know me, or my game, at all.

If I were bad, I would not have written that giant post. Pretty much everyone in here who knows my game knows it. I was CONVINCED BF was bad. 100%. Thats why i kept hectoring him, coming back to the thread to rip apart everything he said. You saw me in Film Directors. I can get people lynched without needing to do that mega post thing. But I did it bwcasue I was sure he was bad. I was wrong. But I was sure.

And I was sure he was bad, so I was sure that he was setting up whoever it was who was named in the will. Thats why I brought up the possibility of Oliver Oliver. I thought BF KNEW his name was not the Millionaire. Becasue he was the Millionaires teammate.

[Canucklehead]

I voted for Randolph at because it sounds like Rufolph st and I wish it were Christmas right now.



I am now "caught up", but I really don't have a super solid grasp on anything. There's a lot of grumpy, testy respondes and snappiness is this thread, which always tunes me out and prevents me from thinking clearly about things. I have my eye on Dom for his exchange with Golden, Golden for being extra Goldeny, SVS for reacting oddly to a BR question, and Epi for being coy unnecessarily with LC....but these are all just gut pings, nothing I'm willing to vote based off of yet, but places where I will keep my attention to see if they develop into anything real or suspicion-worthy.

[S~V~S]

I think you are wrong on SVS. Actually my whole vibe from her was the exact opposite - that she got on to the bf train early (and, possibly, may not have entirely bought the case, although she may have) to ensure that if bf was lynched, the will did not fall into baddie hands. That's the way I've been reading her all along.

The way I read bfs and SVSs different interpretation of the will is this - bf made svs have made different assumptions based on whatever wording they have got. Bf assumed money, SVS assumed items. Bf thought 'role', SVS thought 'practical'. In my experience with both of them, this very well matches up with the way their brains actually work.

But it does make me feel better about you, that you brought this case which I can see how you arrived at.

I realize this too. I won't drop the idea though, because of the potential. I believe there's a 50/50 chance either way.

There is no chance. I am not a baddie. And you won't drop it just like you didn't drop it in Film Directors?

Also, I did receive the will. All it says is that if Zomba dies, whoever holds the will will get everything she has. It does NOT say she is wealthy. Just becasue she has a will does not mean she is rich. Normally I would not even post this, but since her name was already out there, I just want to confirm that BF was not lying, but that there is nothing that indicates a specific role holds the will. I thought BF might have been witholding something, but he was not.

I kind of feel like you're painting BF as even worse for what he did with this post. Like you pushed the lynch on BF and want him to look worse off for it. But I can't imagine what you had to gain from doing it after what Zomba has posted. And lets face it made it even worse as she dug he grave a little deeper back there basically confirming she is a baddie.

Why SVS? Why the need to do this? You did not have to. With Zombas posts you could have just confirmed what BF said and went along with the day. You know you have been pushing Oliver hard. This is odd.

No it does not mean that. But I hate the idea that someone game may be ruined by info. HATE. If they get caught, it should be by their own actions. The will was ambiguous. It names the holder as Zombas heir. My husband had a will naming me as his heir. After it was all said & done, I was $90,000 in debt ha ha. So that means squat. I think Zombas reactions to all of this are a hell of a lot more telling than the will was, tbh.

Please. SVS takes risks. Keep thinking baddies never make any moves. Keep watching them dominate you.

You're right, I do. Whether civ or bad. No guts, no glory. In fact, I am more likely to take risks when i am solo, no one depending on me. You hosted SOT, you know how I roll.

Please. SVS takes risks. Keep thinking baddies never make any moves. Keep watching them dominate you.

Whats the point of the move though... everyone knows where the will is, it will surely just be stolen tonight??? By someone...

So, what, take a whole lot of heat to get the will, but have everyone know where it is anyway? Surely they would have been better off NOT lynching bf, trying to lynch someone else, and NKing bf.

I honestly don't think this theory checks out. It doesn't make sense to me.

There is a particular role on the millionaire's team that can store papers in vaults.

I don't know if baddies can transfer items around between teamies, but my guess is that the vault keeps papers safe from thieves.

Actually, I thought of the same thing. I might have mentioned in on my bizarre theory about Zomba & BF being teammates post. I thought that was the role BF was, actually.

Here is something that caught my eye today. First we have blindfaeth's original revelation that regarding the will.


Now this post doesn't match up with blindfaeth's statement. blindfaeth suggested he would inherit "a large sum of money". SVS stated that she would inherit "everything she has". SVS then confirmed that the "everything" meant items.

If SVS is on Zomba's team, this is a perfect result. SVS now has the will, and can manipulate its content to the rest of us if she wants.

If SVS is a civvie, I feel that events would have unfolded differently. Would she have voted for an "infodropper" early and before everyone else?

*cut for brevity*

would you advocate a zombi or an svs lynch first them?

Good Question.

Zomba. If Zomba is civ, I doubt that SVS is a baddie. But the inverse is far more likely.

I'm confused about this inverse thing. Are you saying that if you lynch SVS and she is civ then you doubt that I am a baddie? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier re the buddying up to me. SVS has had BTSC with me before and she knows this is something that makes me crazy. In fact, I think it's what got me NKd (as a civ) in Death Note. SVS, LC, Bea, Golden, I hope that you guys are civs and that you will listen when I tell you to STOP DEFENDING ME!!!! I will be looking at all three of you during the day tomorrow and if any of you flip bad before I die - so help me - hell hath no fury!

As for MM and Rabbit - all this speculation is just speculation. What if....millionaire...BF lying....SVS lying....you are missing the main point of my posts (on purpose?? ) My whole problem with what BF said was how it was going to affect my role. Let's just say that I am the Millionaire, wouldn't I be wanting votes to make me stronger? How does what he said ruin that role at all? I'll tell you - it doesn't. Your logic is lazy and lazy logic leads to lynched civs.

In Roger Rabbit - the only game where I played a baddie - half our team laid low the whole game and didn't get killed until the very end. I'd bet real money that this is happening again in this game. Where is A Person or BWT, one little post here and there, just enough to get credit for posting without committing to anything?

@LC - I'm going to use my stock certificate to start a fire tonight. Your suggestion intrigued me, it's not doing me any good, and I don't want Rabbit or MM or SVS or to get anything more than a pile of ashes if they decide that I need to die.

OK, this is where I started with the butchered quote while I was still in bed.

Regarding the bolded, I have no idea what you think, tbh, honey. You barely showed up to BTSC. I had to PM MP to make sure you were not upset with me. It was odd, I had two disjointed civ BTS situations going on at the same time, lol. And you barely talked to me in Donner, either. SO not sure what you mean here.

And now that I have caught up, the last part that I first addressed makes even less sense to me. Why are you lumping me in with anyone, and why especially are you lumpin me in with MM & T+Rabbit? And who was the last "or" supposed to be, the one that you apparently cut out?

OK, gotta jump in the shower.

Linki @ Canuck~ I replied to her 2 posts ago,or so I thought I think I lost a giant post. Hopefully it is still in cache.

[thellama73]

Linki @ Canuck~ I replied to her 2 posts ago,or so I thought I think I lost a giant post. Hopefully it is still in cache.

It is in the Flash signup thread.

[S~V~S]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Thats how I multi post, I cut & repaste in another window, lol & thought the other window was this thread

I can't even manage two windows. After I move it, can you delete it over there?

[Long Con]

Linki @ Canuck~ I replied to her 2 posts ago,or so I thought I think I lost a giant post. Hopefully it is still in cache.

It is in the Flash signup thread.

[S~V~S]

I voted Dearborn. I am in the middle of rereading The Dark Tower books, and that name figured in the books.

And BR, I know the point you were making. I think it is a 50/50 on Zomba BUT I think if she had the civ role, she would have said more, and said what she did say differently. I could be wrong

Just remember that the "super civ" Zomba that you are used to in Donner and Death Note got NK'd.

I'm bugged that BF said that the will said that killing me would give him lots of money and then jumped to the millionaire conclusion. Maybe my role is okay after all.

Not if you keep talking about it, it won't.

This ^^

I am starting to read back from my last post.

oh THAT post. So most people are reading it as her outting herself as the millionaire. I read that nuetrally, i.e., it could be either role but i see how it could be the millionaire role. I've had too much wine tonight and my smileys aren't working for me to find the right one. I need to look again at this issue tomorrow. Thanks for pointing it out though MM.

re: to sophie, yes it doesnt take long to get started.

I am NOT the millionaire and I honestly don't see how what I said could possibly be an endorsement of BF's wild speculation. MM saying that people are talking about it feels like he's trying to stir up trouble. Who is talking about it MM besides you and Liz Keen and now Juliets and now me? MM - are you reading the thread?

Apparently the will doesn't even say that BF would have gotten a lot of money when I died. It just says that he would have gotten my stuff when I died. That makes BF's HUGE assumption that I'm the millionaire even more wacky.

on Sophie to see if she actually catches up on the thread or not.

on BWT - not convinced that he is reading the thread.

on all the low posters. If you only make one or two posts per day - make sure that they are good ones.

OK, now you are just spattering mud. Sophie just replaced in. BWT said he was out of town until Thursday (which I had forgotten myself, so ) And low posters? So many people have said and done so many suspicious things, and you want to go for low posters? I mean (not that I want people to vote for me) but I led a lynch on a civvie. There are a few fairly intense one on ones going on right now. Awesome day one. Low posters? Really?

And I think you are reading into what I said, and into what BF said. I was worried I was going to get a paper that said, "Zomba is the Millionaire" and that BF qualified it. But he pretty much said what I said, maybe with different specific wording since you can't post exactly what the host said, but close enough.

You are reading way more into word choice than you should be.

I voted Dearborn. I am in the middle of rereading The Dark Tower books, and that name figured in the books.

And BR, I know the point you were making. I think it is a 50/50 on Zomba BUT I think if she had the civ role, she would have said more, and said what she did say differently. I could be wrong

You could be right, I felt like it was a reaction before thinking. They're usually the most honest.

Also I did ask, then I told you my opinion. That's all that was.

OK, I read that as being a bit accusatory. Maybe residual guilt over BF. Thanks for clarification.

Just writing that last post made me feel 100% better. Note that I will now be using the term "civ-weird' to describe someone who I think is a civ that is acting like I think a baddie would act.

linki @Eloh and BR - BF misrepresented what what in the will and I was REALLY upset because I thought that .... [can't really say] .... and I had to have some conversations with the host. Then when I found out what the will really said, from SVS, I realized that things were not how I thought. I'm sorry that you read it as bad because it isn't. It's just me being honest about what's going on without giving any info in the thread. If I were free to explain fully, I assure you that it would sound a lot less "shifty."

Maybe you think I'm being civ-weird. I'll try to stop. If you are baddies trying to set me up - then you stop.

You have to stop harping on this.

Question for Mr. Con and Mme. JC:

Both of you voted for MM after he voted himself and after bf had five votes. Correct me if I am wrong about this, but I can't recall anytime you two have ever voted someone because of chronic self-voting. I understand the reasoning, sure, but why now? Why today?

I don't recall Juliets doing it. But LC used to do it all the time re Jason Maher, someone we used to play with, before your time. I know he has mentioned it re MM before. But yeah, this would be a good game to be wary of "tangent" votes, right?

And I am going to stop here as I just came across a giant post that needs it's own post. This one is getting too long anyhow.

[S~V~S]

That post should have been before the one where I replied to MMs long post.

[S~V~S]

You and I consistently MISunderstand each other in every game. You don't know me, or my game, at all.

If I were bad, I would not have written that giant post. Pretty much everyone in here who knows my game knows it. I was CONVINCED BF was bad. 100%. Thats why i kept hectoring him, coming back to the thread to rip apart everything he said. You saw me in Film Directors. I can get people lynched without needing to do that mega post thing. But I did it because I was sure he was bad. I was wrong. But I was sure.

And I was sure he was bad, so I was sure that he was setting up whoever it was who was named in the will. Thats why I brought up the possibility of Oliver Oliver. I thought BF KNEW his name was not the Millionaire. Because he was the Millionaires teammate.

Fixed~ misunderstand=/=understand

[rabbit8]

Fair enough SVS. For now.

[rabbit8]

Zomba. If Zomba is civ, I doubt that SVS is a baddie. But the inverse is far more likely.

I'm confused about this inverse thing. Are you saying that if you lynch SVS and she is civ then you doubt that I am a baddie? This is exactly what I was talking about earlier re the buddying up to me. SVS has had BTSC with me before and she knows this is something that makes me crazy. In fact, I think it's what got me NKd (as a civ) in Death Note. SVS, LC, Bea, Golden, I hope that you guys are civs and that you will listen when I tell you to STOP DEFENDING ME!!!! I will be looking at all three of you during the day tomorrow and if any of you flip bad before I die - so help me - hell hath no fury!

As for MM and Rabbit - all this speculation is just speculation. What if....millionaire...BF lying....SVS lying....you are missing the main point of my posts (on purpose?? ) My whole problem with what BF said was how it was going to affect my role. Let's just say that I am the Millionaire, wouldn't I be wanting votes to make me stronger? How does what he said ruin that role at all? I'll tell you - it doesn't. Your logic is lazy and lazy logic leads to lynched civs.

In Roger Rabbit - the only game where I played a baddie - half our team laid low the whole game and didn't get killed until the very end. I'd bet real money that this is happening again in this game. Where is A Person or BWT, one little post here and there, just enough to get credit for posting without committing to anything?

@LC - I'm going to use my stock certificate to start a fire tonight. Your suggestion intrigued me, it's not doing me any good, and I don't want Rabbit or MM or SVS or to get anything more than a pile of ashes if they decide that I need to die.

Yes I'm lazy and purposely missing your point. Maybe I'm missing your point on purpose. Because you're a baddie? I think so. Why are you so against people who think you're a civ giving their opinion?

I can see some of the low posters as being bad. Does not make you a civvie though.

[Marmot]

I think you are wrong on SVS. Actually my whole vibe from her was the exact opposite - that she got on to the bf train early (and, possibly, may not have entirely bought the case, although she may have) to ensure that if bf was lynched, the will did not fall into baddie hands. That's the way I've been reading her all along.

The way I read bfs and SVSs different interpretation of the will is this - bf made svs have made different assumptions based on whatever wording they have got. Bf assumed money, SVS assumed items. Bf thought 'role', SVS thought 'practical'. In my experience with both of them, this very well matches up with the way their brains actually work.

But it does make me feel better about you, that you brought this case which I can see how you arrived at.

I realize this too. I won't drop the idea though, because of the potential. I believe there's a 50/50 chance either way.

There is no chance. I am not a baddie. And you won't drop it just like you didn't drop it in Film Directors?

In Film Directors, I was a baddie, and an incredibly mean on at that.

But thanks for reaffirming what I said, even though this and that are two different things. I see something that looks suspicious, so I'm going to talk about it. I don't want to bring past interactions into this because they have nothing to do with this. I'm not accusing SVS; I'm accusing the person who defended the possible millionaire from the getgo, and ultimately ended up with the will. That person happens to be you.

[Marmot]

Also SVS, I find the content of your posts to be on the level. What pings me is the series of events that transpired through them.

As for the 50/50 chance thing, that was a joke because you said the same thing about Zomba. The numbers don't mean anything to me there.

[birdwithteeth11]

on BWT - not convinced that he is reading the thread.

What makes you think that?

[Marmot]

Clark St. rather. I can't read today.

This! You said so yourself BWT!

[thellama73]

Heads up gang, out drinking my lunch so the post may come a bit late. I want to shift it back to a more convenient post-work time anyway.

[juliets]

Ok, I'm awake and not talking about bourbon in irc so I'll answer the question Epi put forth about voting for MM. If I'm not mistaken, I voted for MM in Roger Rabbit for the same reason which would bring me to the same question as llama. Why did you pretend you didn't know?

I may vote for him every first day that he does that because it makes me mad he keeps getting away with it. In this game he actually voted 2 days ahead of the lynch close which to me is evidence he was not interested in looking for or being open to baddie cases.

I didn't even think about the millionaire issue but even if I had, anybody could be the millionaire at this point. I can't just not vote. And as for bf I felt very comfortable that he wasn't bad so I didn't want to vote for him. I can't remember what the question was specifically so have I answered it?

[fingersplints]

Yea, I'm kinda surprised MM has continued to self vote despite the fact that it has been pointed out numerous times how anti-civvie this behavior is.

[birdwithteeth11]

Clark St. rather. I can't read today.

This! You said so yourself BWT!

Thanks, Captain Obvious!

[birdwithteeth11]

After the BF lynch, I'll admit that I'm not really sure where I'm currently looking. I was thinking SVS, but her recent explanations have me feeling a bit more comfortable for now. I'm still not sure why she'd put a target on her back to go after that will though.

I'm also eager to hear back from Zomba about why she doesn't think I'm reading the thread. If it's due to me not posting much, then I'd get used to it. That's more of my style. Especially this early in the game.

[S~V~S]

I think you are wrong on SVS. Actually my whole vibe from her was the exact opposite - that she got on to the bf train early (and, possibly, may not have entirely bought the case, although she may have) to ensure that if bf was lynched, the will did not fall into baddie hands. That's the way I've been reading her all along.

The way I read bfs and SVSs different interpretation of the will is this - bf made svs have made different assumptions based on whatever wording they have got. Bf assumed money, SVS assumed items. Bf thought 'role', SVS thought 'practical'. In my experience with both of them, this very well matches up with the way their brains actually work.

But it does make me feel better about you, that you brought this case which I can see how you arrived at.

I realize this too. I won't drop the idea though, because of the potential. I believe there's a 50/50 chance either way.

There is no chance. I am not a baddie. And you won't drop it just like you didn't drop it in Film Directors?

In Film Directors, I was a baddie, and an incredibly mean on at that.

But thanks for reaffirming what I said, even though this and that are two different things. I see something that looks suspicious, so I'm going to talk about it. I don't want to bring past interactions into this because they have nothing to do with this. I'm not accusing SVS; I'm accusing the person who defended the possible millionaire from the getgo, and ultimately ended up with the will. That person happens to be you.

Not sure how, if you actually read my posts, that you missed what I was saying and instead construed it to be a defense. Of anyone. It was part of my attack on BF. I went balls to the walls becasue I was sure I was right. I wasn't. But at the time I thought he was bad, most likely the guy with the safe.

But I was not defending the Millionaire~ even if Zomba is the millionaire, which we don;t know (although I would not be surprised). What I did was accuse BF of not addressing the fact that there was another rich role. Like I said, I thought he was the actual Millionaires teammate. I fully expected BF to flip bad, and to get a document that said nothing like what he said it did. Then when he flipped civ, I expected it to say that Zomba WAS the Millionaire, and that he held back the full info.

But again, explore to your hearts content~ you are wrong if you think I am bad.

[Zombarella]

You gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

You stole my line.

I don't know if baddies can transfer items around between teamies, but my guess is that the vault keeps papers safe from thieves.

I don't think so:

How Items Work

Some items can be used to confer benefits, some cannot. Some items will be consumed when used, some will not. Most items can be stolen. When someone is lynched, all of the items they possess go to the people who voted for them, in order. So the first vote gets the first item, etc. When someone is NKed, whoever performed the kill gets the item. Items may not be voluntarily traded between players.

Transfer and traded are two different things. So I would say it could be possible for a teammate to give an item to put in the safe.

I'm baffled as to why the stock certificate would start a fire. Why would anyone want to burn stock? Unless the stock market crashes.

I'm off to bed but I hope tomorrow doesn't find the whole city burned down.

Okay - here's one that's not reading the thread. If you had been reading you would know about the stock and the fire....

[birdwithteeth11]

Do I get an answer to my question, Zomba?

[S~V~S]

Zomba with all love & respect~ "Did you even read the thread" was considered a fairly aggressive & dismissive statement where some of us used to play. It is not just a passing thing to say. Perhaps you did not know that. But people may think you are getting in their face when you say stuff like that.

And in a big thread, not everyone remembers everything every person says. Especially you, lol. You change your avatar every few hours and I have to double check who you are when I read your posts

[Golden]

I would like to say at this juncture, that when I asked LC if he had read day one, I was not getting in his face.

[Zombarella]

Do I get an answer to my question, Zomba?

Linki - Thank you SVS. I didn't realize that I was coming across as overly aggressive. Any yes, I am actually a fairly forgetful player. Sorry about the avatar thing. I'll leave it for now.

BWT - If you will kindly remember, I mentioned earlier (and LC quoted and then I requoted) that I want to pursue a strategy of looking at people who appear to not be reading the thread. This makes sense to me because as a baddie in Roger Rabbit I knew who all the civies and baddies were so I didn't need to read carefully in order to figure it out who was who. I'm not saying that you didn't read and I'm not saying that you're not busy. I'm just saying that I'm not convinced. One reason is that you said you didn't have time to read (MM already posted this). You don't have to convince me if you don't want - but .... I'm just sayin....

[S~V~S]

I would like to say at this juncture, that when I asked LC if he had read day one, I was not getting in his face.

You are always in someones face ha ha ha, and you always mean it~

[Zombarella]

@ Liz Keen - In light of what SVS just said, I will rephrase my post above.

When you said "I'm baffled as to why the stock certificate would start a fire. Why would anyone want to burn stock? Unless the stock market crashes." it pinged me. I stated earlier that my stock certificate was for a worthless penny stock that was only good for starting fires. LC said that maybe I should use it to start a fire and see what happens. I replied with other suggestions. There were one or two other posts on the subject. Perhaps that genuinely slipped your mind or perhaps you were unable to read all of the thread for some reason. Per my new baddie hunting strategy of looking for people who are not reading because baddies don't need to read, I am concerned about you because it appears to me that you may not be reading.

[Marmot]

Do I get an answer to my question, Zomba?

Linki - Thank you SVS. I didn't realize that I was coming across as overly aggressive. Any yes, I am actually a fairly forgetful player. Sorry about the avatar thing. I'll leave it for now.

BWT - If you will kindly remember, I mentioned earlier (and LC quoted and then I requoted) that I want to pursue a strategy of looking at people who appear to not be reading the thread. This makes sense to me because as a baddie in Roger Rabbit I knew who all the civies and baddies were so I didn't need to read carefully in order to figure it out who was who. I'm not saying that you didn't read and I'm not saying that you're not busy. I'm just saying that I'm not convinced. One reason is that you said you didn't have time to read (MM already posted this). You don't have to convince me if you don't want - but .... I'm just sayin....

Zomba... That post I quoted from BWT was a joke...

It was a post from him saying he failed to comprehend a particular statement, not that he hasn't read the thread.

[Long Con]

I would like to say at this juncture, that when I asked LC if he had read day one, I was not getting in his face.

No, you were avoiding answering a question.

[Zombarella]

Do I get an answer to my question, Zomba?

Linki - Thank you SVS. I didn't realize that I was coming across as overly aggressive. Any yes, I am actually a fairly forgetful player. Sorry about the avatar thing. I'll leave it for now.

BWT - If you will kindly remember, I mentioned earlier (and LC quoted and then I requoted) that I want to pursue a strategy of looking at people who appear to not be reading the thread. This makes sense to me because as a baddie in Roger Rabbit I knew who all the civies and baddies were so I didn't need to read carefully in order to figure it out who was who. I'm not saying that you didn't read and I'm not saying that you're not busy. I'm just saying that I'm not convinced. One reason is that you said you didn't have time to read (MM already posted this). You don't have to convince me if you don't want - but .... I'm just sayin....

Zomba... That post I quoted from BWT was a joke...

It was a post from him saying he failed to comprehend a particular statement, not that he hasn't read the thread.

I just reread all of BWT - again. Okay - I think I see what he meant by "I can't read today." Meaning that he said Clark Ave instead of Clark Street because he messed up when reading the poll options. Alright. I get it. Sorry BWT. I guess my tunnel vision looking for people who might not be reading didn't let me see it that way at the time or when MM reposted it as a joke. I don't want to vote for you. You are sounding more civ to me now.

[Marmot]

How many degrees are in a triangle?

[Zombarella]

How many degrees are in a triangle?

180

[Zombarella]

How many degrees are in a triangle?

180

Unless it's not Euclidian geometry. In spherical geometry a triangle can have more than 180 degrees - like 90, 90, 45. In taxicab geometry a triangle looks like a step pyramid and have hundreds and hundreds of degrees.

[Bullzeye]

How many degrees are in a triangle?

180

Unless it's not Euclidian geometry. In spherical geometry a triangle can have more than 180 degrees - like 90, 90, 45. In taxicab geometry a triangle looks like a step pyramid and have hundreds and hundreds of degrees.

...And in Fairy Land a triangle can have all the degrees its heart desires, as long as it believes in the power of friendship!


Right?

[Dom]

How many degrees are in a triangle?

180

Unless it's not Euclidian geometry. In spherical geometry a triangle can have more than 180 degrees - like 90, 90, 45. In taxicab geometry a triangle looks like a step pyramid and have hundreds and hundreds of degrees.

And in hyperbolic geometry you can have a triangle with less than 180º.

[Marmot]

How many degrees are in a triangle?

180

That's what you've done with BWT. :P

Bad math joke.

[Long Con]

How many degrees are in a triangle?

180

That's what you've done with BWT. :P

Bad math joke.

I got it.

[Dom]

Metalmarsh, what if this game is in a hyperbolic plane?

[Zombarella]

How many degrees are in a triangle?

180

That's what you've done with BWT. :P

Bad math joke.

I got it.

I get it. And I don't deny it. But that's my right. I don't know who's good or bad. I read things, I think things, other people read things and think things, I post, they post, I change they change. That's the point of the game.

[Tangrowth]

Dang, I missed the poll! Sorry folks, I haven't been around at all between spending free time with Daisy (before she leaves for Houston again tonight), Smashfest, and wrapping up Roger Rabbit (and obviously, PhD stuff as well)! I'll be back at some point tonight or tomorrow night to start my proper catch up and accumulate my thoughts on what has happened starting with the very beginning.

[Zombarella]

Metalmarsh, what if this game is in a hyperbolic plane?

Then we self vote and make jokes and talk in logic circles.

[rabbit8]

Do I get an answer to my question, Zomba?

Linki - Thank you SVS. I didn't realize that I was coming across as overly aggressive. Any yes, I am actually a fairly forgetful player. Sorry about the avatar thing. I'll leave it for now.

BWT - If you will kindly remember, I mentioned earlier (and LC quoted and then I requoted) that I want to pursue a strategy of looking at people who appear to not be reading the thread. This makes sense to me because as a baddie in Roger Rabbit I knew who all the civies and baddies were so I didn't need to read carefully in order to figure it out who was who. I'm not saying that you didn't read and I'm not saying that you're not busy. I'm just saying that I'm not convinced. One reason is that you said you didn't have time to read (MM already posted this). You don't have to convince me if you don't want - but .... I'm just sayin....

You will catch baddies who are not very good at being bad this way. If a baddie is not paying attention a baddie is getting lynched.

Like admitting your role was screwed over.