Biblical Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Paul Stevens]

Now I've lost my place. Great.

[NurseWilgy]

Calmallama down for a sec and look at the roles page. I call myself vanilla because there is absolutely nothing next to my role on that page.
My only slip up is forgetting to search for other apostles

If Isaac is telling the truth, he has to be either Matthew, Philip, or Simon Peter. Does anyone have any reason to believe he is not one of these three roles?

[Paul Stevens]

Oh wait, no, I misread them. The special abilities are the ones there, in brackets. Never mind.

Sorry Jacob, didn't see this before my response. You are correct, though, I totally forgot about it, tbh.

[Paul Stevens]

I'll take a breath here and say, at this point, Isaac, Jacob, Mordecai, and Belshazzar look worst. I'm very interested to see what Rahab will yield though.

Yup. Lol. If it's alright with you, though, I'd like to look at Mordecai and maybe your Rahab suspicion first. Mordecai has been on the back of my mind for a while now and I couldn't really figure out why. It's nice to have your analysis here to show me why. Although I will inevitably prove that vote history isn't perfect evidence. I'd be willing to toss a vote here, though.

I had this all typed out and forgot to post it!

[Snapshot]

Well here is an idea... if any apostles are out searching for other apostles and you are yet to send in a PM - send one in for Isaac.

We haven't had any new activations since night one. If we get an activation tonight, then maybe that would make Isaac look a little better.

[Paul Stevens]

Calmallama down for a sec and look at the roles page. I call myself vanilla because there is absolutely nothing next to my role on that page.
My only slip up is forgetting to search for other apostles

If Isaac is telling the truth, he has to be either Matthew, Philip, or Simon Peter. Does anyone have any reason to believe he is not one of these three roles?

You are not.... wrong.. Don't smite me please!

[Paul Stevens]

I'm gonna die soon.

[Young Lady]

I don't know what I like less: Isaac borderline outing himself under simple pressure of suspicion or Absalom infering out in the open on Isaac's role or giving signals that could attract not just the good guys, but the Heathens as well.

[Young Lady]

Actually Lot did the last part, oops, don't know why I mixed them up.

[Paul Stevens]

I had zero intent to out myself. I simply said I was a vanilla civ. I thought I remembered there being more. Jacob pointed out otherwise. And thus, I'm fucked.

Linki: Yeah. That too.

[Paul Stevens]

So is there any way we can stick with wifom and not give the heathens an excuse to kill me?

[NurseWilgy]

So is there any way we can stick with wifom and not give the heathens an excuse to kill me?

Well, if they don't kill you, it will look like you're lying, and then we'll have to lynch you. So maybe they won't.

Of course, then you would get lynched, so...

[Young Lady]

Really? We have so far at least two players who have hinted civviness (to save their butts, tho), a player whose actions would infer civviness, a player who someone else has vouched to be confirmed civvie, but if the Heathens don't dispose of Isaac tonight, that automatically means he lied?

I think the wheels on this discussion have long fallen off.

[NurseWilgy]

Really? We have so far at least two players who have hinted civviness (to save their butts, tho), a player whose actions would infer civviness, a player who someone else has vouched to be confirmed civvie, but if the Heathens don't dispose of Isaac tonight, that automatically means he lied?

I think the wheels on this discussion have long fallen off.

I was mostly being facetious. No need to overreact. I am not in a hurry to lynch Isaac, but I would not mind giving him a little WIFOM cover to keep him from being KNed.

[Snapshot]

I'm not quite sure what you think I did wrong, Belsh?

I did not call myself out as vanilla civ. Nor did I point out which roles that could be...

But now that this has been done, I think the least we can do is create a strategy by which we might be able to see if we believe Isaac's role hint.

For what it's worth, I've caught a baddie before because they said they were 'the most vanilla civvie'. In this case, we have a chance to test it. If it means Isaac ends up being NKed because he is a 'confirmed civ' (and honestly, I think that even if someone is activated tonight, it by no means guarantees it must be Isaac), then I think it is still a risk worth taking. I don't think it is a certainty that heathen would immediately kill him, and as it stands, I can't see any reason not to lynch Isaac, so he would probably die soon anyway. Better to do what we can to reduce the chance of a mislynch. Sorry if that seems a little heartless, but honestly I feel it is also Isaac's best chance at survival if he is in fact truthfully a civ.

[Paul Stevens]

That is extremely heartless, Lot. I'm quickly becoming a human sacrifice. As to what Belsh is referring to: If I am "activated" tonight, I have a target on my head. I'm a walking dead man if that happens either way you look at it. (It physically hurt to read your post. Are you human?)

If you'll take 2 seconds to reconsider what I said before: I think Mordecai and Rahab are 2 good ways to look next in order to make some progress on this bitch.

[Snapshot]

Isaac, I would think you would want to do what it takes to show you are civ. If you are being honest, your activation might even be NK protection, and there is still the possibility of another civilian protecting you the following night.

You are a walking target right now. An activated civ tonight somewhat fixes that. I'm not sure why you would argue against your activation... unless, in fact, you would prefer civs don't target you so that no-one knows you are lying?

After all, why would you be a walking target any more than those people who Absalom is clearing based on their vote records? I think there are quite a lot of people who I can confidently call 'not heathen' right now. You would just be one more on the list.

[Paul Stevens]

Because I will be confirmed. Then civs would have no reason to lynch me. And heathens would have no reason to let me live.
Like everyone else, I want to live. I want to win. Whether there will be immediate or long-term protection for is a HUGE If. And as I see it now, I'm safest on the fence than off on either side (where there's clearly sharp rocks on one side and snakes on the other).

I'm a walking dead man because you and Jacob have just painted me red and pushed me out in the open.

[Paul Stevens]

*further out in the open. I was already under a magnifying glass with my voting record, etc.

[Young Lady]

Civ-reading players or calling them suspicion-free, like Absalom did in his walkthrough, isn't exactly making any of those players "walking targets". If it were, we'd never resort to civ-reading players at any point and that doesn't make much sense. Meanwhile, this proposed tactic re: Isaac feels, IMO, way more distracting (in terms of proper hunting) and slippery. So basically the idea is to rely on the Heathens' actions or responsiveness to certain details, in order to check a player's civ claim? To a certain extent, I get it - for instance, if the role Jacob is hinting at would noticeably appear to be have been eliminated, whilst Jacob is still alive, it would make me turn rage mode on Jacob for clearly BS'ing us the whole time. But my main issue, in this case, as I've said, is that we already have a considerable pool of so-called 'walking targets' and I don't see the priority of testing Isaac out of everyone else. Do all of them become suspects of lying, if neither of them are taken care of by the Heathens tonight? This all sounds very confusing to me.

[Snapshot]

I don't know what Jacob has to do with it, what did he do?

As for me pushing you out into the open, I want to make this very clear - if you are not activated overnight, I will be pushing your lynch until you are lynched. I do NOT BELIEVE YOU!

This, for me, is giving you a chance to prove you are civ. You've walked into it yourself, I didn't push you into it. Now we have a chance to prove it.

@Belshazzar - Isaac has

1) A terrible voting record
2) A propensity for only appearing when other people start talking about him as bad; and
3) A role-hint of a vanilla civ.

What do you mean by 'I don't see the priority of testing Isaac', Who else has role hinted that we can test at all?

"So basically the idea is to rely on the Heathens' actions or responsiveness to certain details" what does that even mean? The heathens can't activate Isaac, and in fact, NOONE can if Isaac is heathen.

Don't you see how Isaac wanting to back out of this and not be activated alone points to the fact his role-hint could well be a lie...

Not that I'll be voting Isaac tomorrow. I still feel like a vote for Lazarus would be the right thing for me to do.

[Snapshot]

Isaac doesn't make me like him any more by trying to claim that it was ME who pushed him out into the open when it was HIM who role claimed.

If you are going to role-claim, you better be damn well willing to back it up. If you are scared of being killed by the heathen for being a 'confirmed civ', then don't role claim. For me, it's really simple.

[Paul Stevens]

Isaac doesn't make me like him any more by trying to claim that it was ME who pushed him out into the open when it was HIM who role claimed.

If you are going to role-claim, you better be damn well willing to back it up. If you are scared of being killed by the heathen for being a 'confirmed civ', then don't role claim. For me, it's really simple.

For the record I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. I also wasn't trying to be specific. That's where it gets dangerous. We're getting into the specifics of my role if I am activated, and the heathens will most certainly kill me before end game, if not immediately. You're clearly more upset about this than I am, though, so I'm just going to step away and let things play out. I'm sorry it got this far.

No matter what happens, I hope I stop being a distraction so that the hunting may continue. Good luck to everyone on my side.
Mordecai, Jacob, and Rahab are good players to scrutinize next. I'm sure there will be a positive outcome there. Do with that what you will.

Isaac out

[Snapshot]

I don't buy that you become a target if you are activated. I just don't buy that line of thinking in the slightest. For lots of reasons.

1) The apostles seem to have the weakest civ powers. Why would a heathen choose to target them when they could instead hit someone more powerful?
2) The horsemen may be the most powerful. Why would we assume the heathen would rather hit a civ than a horseman?
3) Even if someone is activated tonight, there is only circumstantial evidence that you are them, but the chances of you being protected by other civs goes up. You become a much riskier target for a kill.

To me, activating you is far and away the most civilian move we could make at this point - assuming you can be activated.

(For what its worth - I also think a Rahab lynch could be very interesting indeed, and after Absalom's analysis, I'm going to do a reread of her).

[Young Lady]

Uh, Jacob has hinted to be very important for the civ cause?

I read Isaac just as bad as you before, to which his general defense was the "wrong spotlight" one, after which today he took it a step further by (accidentally or not) role hinting.

As for what I meant about the Heathens, I was questioning why do we have to take the angle in which we'd rely on whether they eliminate the "walking target" or not, in order to test the "walking target's claims. It seems to me like a backwards angle to simply trying to debunk the target's claim, call it a bluff or test it through lynch, if we're really that doubtful about the claim itself.

Although I think I finally understand better your activation angle...

[Snapshot]

I'm saying that we (in the absence of activation) are likely to eliminate the walking target. Not the baddies.

I'm saying that I think the risk is lower of the baddies eliminating that walking target by NK than us lynching him.

And I'm saying that if the baddies do NK a civilian because he is a 'walking target', that is still preferable to us lynching one (lets say, if we thought the odds were even of each)

[Epignosis]

9 And God’s wrath found Judah, a quiet man who lived in the south. For eating with foreigners and disobeying God’s command, Judah died at the table while he reveled. 10 Seeing this sight, Rachel, a woman in Judah’s house, cried out to alert the guests, for the noise of the merriment was great. 11 A guest from Egypt, one who was sojourning in Sin-d’kaht, answered her. “Go, woman, and touch your master Judah seven times with this staff.” 12 And he gave her the staff, and she did as the man from Egypt commanded her. 13 The seventh time she touched her master Judah with the staff, behold, the staff fell to her feet and became a serpent. 14 And the serpent struck her feet seven times, killing her. 15 For this reason, it is said among them in Sin-d’kaht “Do not accept a staff from a foreigner.”

[Snapshot]

Judah is no loss. Rachel is. RIP, Rachel.

[Snapshot]

Esteemed host, is there a reason you have Jonathan amongst the living and on the poll?

[Young Lady]

Requiescat in pace, Rachel. And Judah, nevertheless.

No activation of new disciple abilities, by the way.

[dodo]

It's only fitting that I be killed before the people who out themselves.
Thanks for the wonderful game, Epi-- maybe I can come back.

[Epignosis]

Esteemed host, is there a reason you have Jonathan amongst the living and on the poll?

No.

It's only fitting that I be killed before the people who out themselves.
Thanks for the wonderful game, Epi-- maybe I can come back.

With the Host all things are possible.

[Snapshot]

Yeah, I was waiting to give Epi time to edit, as he might choose to do that after host post, but it looks pretty clear by now.

I don't know that I'd read too much into that yet given I broached the subject so late in the evening. But I might give it more weight if the same occurred next evening. And I'm not ruling out that Isaac should be lynched today. Rahab is also a really interesting approach though. First and foremost, though, I really feel I should vote Lazarus. I just feel the need. Call it bloodlust, if you like. I just know that Lazarus deserves to die.

Interestingly, with 18 left, I decided to write a list of everyone I currently suspect of being heathen to varying degrees, and how much I suspect them. Take this as a list, from top to bottom, of everyone I suspect of being heathen in order from most likely to least likely.

Isaac - I've set out many reasons I suspect Isaac. There is not yet any reason for me to suspect otherwise.
Rahab - Absalom made good points. I need to reread.
Jacob - Jacob's votes on days 1, 3, 6 are all troubling. But then his role hint... and he does sound genuine. I wonder if I'm being suckered, though.
Deborah - I still see very little about Deborah's posting or voting that looks particularly civilian.
Mordecai - His voting patterns don't look great, and his perspective on the game is very different to everyone elses. Although overall he does read genuine to me.
Lazarus - I need to go back and read the analysis as to why he could not be Nebuchuznezzar (did Belshazzar write that?). I need to think very carefully about whether or not I agree. Epi, if an apostle was activated on the same night that they died, would you show their activated power or not?
Jonah - No reason to think he is good, no reason to think he is bad. Wondered if he fit the profile of horseman. Can be very helpful when he decides to contribute, which isn't as often as I would like. Could be baddie hiding in shadows.
Rebecca - Another person for whom a reread is probably in order. Her voting patterns aren't amazing, but they are also reasonably consistent.
Belshazzar - I think a reread is in order here too, really I think the main argument that he is bad is that he can't prove he isn't. But it still means he is on the radar.
Samuel - No reason to think he is bad, but there is no reason to think he is good either.
Esther - getting great civ vibes, but no evidence to prove she is good.
Malchus/Bathsheba - could be bad, but I still tend to think they could be empty socks, and I reckon epi finds a replacement for a mafia by now. Honestly, I feel these two could use a modkill.
Malchus/Bathsheba

[Epignosis]

Epi, if an apostle was activated on the same night that they died, would you show their activated power or not?

Yea.

[Snapshot]

So at minimum, the logic is flawed in that Martha could have been Simon the Zealot. So could have Paul but I feel like Stephen might have felt Lazarus was worth pushing harder, given his close affinity with Paul.

[Jack Shephard]

Rest in peace Rachel, rest in whatever Judah

I'm not sure I see all this reasoning regarding Isaac. If we give the ultimatum "if he's not NKed let's lynch him" then duh obviously the baddies aren't going to NK him so they can get a free pass out of a lynch. I might be missing something in the rest of your logic, but to me Isaac doesn't really seem worth going after. Also I think I might still be misunderstanding how the apostles work? For some reason I missed that revealing powers was a thing and thought some of those were there all along, and that some of them were actually just vanilla. Huh.

Mordecai is my top choice for today. I reread Rebecca and am feeling a bit more ambivalent on her. Rahab is also interesting, I'll give her a read.

I'm going to be a lot less active in the daytime from now on, starting a summer job tomorrow

[Nicol Bolas]

I think it's not wise to make judgements on Isaac based on what the baddies do. That's giving the baddies all the power to shape what we think. That will usually end up bad, unless you pull some kind of 180 on the expected response.

I'm down with a Mordecai vote today, I've thought he was a little sketchy, and the vote record analysis was convincing enough.

OH, and I love the fact that I'm unimpeachable. Ha ha! Who woulda thunk, ol' Pilate would finally make good! Of course, I did give you guys your first baddie lynch, so I'm not surprised.

If the baddies wanna kill a trusted and confirmed Civ, then I'm a great choice.

[Snapshot]

If we give the ultimatum "if he's not NKed let's lynch him" then duh obviously the baddies aren't going to NK him so they can get a free pass out of a lynch.

Why do people keep saying this since it is patently not what I or anyone else actually suggested....

I suggested that any disciples searching for another disciple to activate, target Isaac. When did this get bastardized into the heathen killing him?

[Jack Shephard]

So is there any way we can stick with wifom and not give the heathens an excuse to kill me?

Well, if they don't kill you, it will look like you're lying, and then we'll have to lynch you. So maybe they won't.

Of course, then you would get lynched, so...

[Snapshot]

Oh, Absalom playing with Isaac's 'wifom' comment?

But the background to that was that Isaac was suggesting that a civvie being activated occurred first, and that would we what gave rise to the NK. It wouldn't just be expected out of nowhere. I'm not sure why we are pulling Absalom's quote out of the full context of the conversation.

[Jack Shephard]

I just misinterpreted the conversation, I guess. I got lost in all your "walking target" analysis and picked up on the wrong implications.

[Snapshot]

I think you were far from the only one. Clearly a confusing convo.

[Prisoner 509378]

DAY 1 RESULTS:

1. SAMUEL (Paul)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
2. SAMUEL (Samson)<---voter = civvie
3. LOT (Gideon)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
4. UZZIAH (Pilate)
5. REBECCA (Rachel)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
6. PAUL (Martha)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
7. BARNABAS (Stephen)
8. UZZIAH (Job) <---voter = civvie
9. SAMSON (Mordecai)
10. SAMSON (Mary Mag)<---voter = civvie
11. ABSALOM (Cain)<---voter = civvie
12. CAIN (Deborah)
13. CAIN (Absalom)
14. SAMSON (Isaac)
15. SAMSON (Jacob)
16. JEPHTHA (Rebecca)
17. ABSALOM (Malchus)
18. SAMSON (Jonathan)<---voter = civvie
19. MARY MAG (Jonah)
20. SAMSON (Belshazzar)
21. SAMSON (Samuel)
22. CAIN (Uzziah)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
23. JEPHTHAH (Lot)
24. PAUL (Nicodemus)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
25. CAIN (Ruth)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
26. GIDEON (Hagar)<---voter was the civvie smited after our first 3 civ stonings
27. MARY MAG (Jephthah)<---voter = civvie
28. UZZIAH (Rahab)
29. CAIN (Balaam)

Not Voting: Barnabas, Bathsheba, Esther, Judah, Lazarus

Day 2 Results:

1. JOB (Uzziah)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
2. UZZIAH (Job)<---voter = civvie
3. JOB (Rachel)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
4. CAIN (Paul)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
5. CAIN (Absalom)
6. CAIN (Belshazzar)
7. CAIN (Deborah)
8. CAIN (Malchus)
9. UZZIAH (Lot)
10. CAIN (Rahab)
11. STEPHEN (Stephen)
12. CAIN (Balaam)
13. JEPHTHAH (Rebecca)
14. ABSALOM (Lazarus)
15. UZZIAH (Jonathan)<---voter = civvie
16. CAIN (Bathsheba)

Not Voting: Barnabas (2), Cain, Esther (2), Gideon, Hagar, Isaac, Jacob, Jephthah, Jonah, Judah (2), Mary Mag, Mordecai, Nicodemus, Pilate, Ruth, Samuel

DAY 3 Results:

1. UZZIAH (Job)<---voter = civvie
2. JOB (Uzziah)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
3. RACHEL (Lot)
4. RACHEL (Mary Mag)<---voter = civvie
5. UZZIAH (Nicodemus)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
6. LAZARUS (Mordecai)
7. JOB (Isaac)
8. RAHAB (Jonah)
9. UZZIAH (Absalom)
10. MARY MAG (Rebecca)
11. LAZARUS (Jonathan)<---voter = civvie
12. LAZARUS (Gideon)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
13. MARY MAG (Jacob)
14. MARY MAG (Belshazzar)
15. MARY MAG (Jephthah)<---voter = civvie
16. MARY MAG (Deborah)
17. JOB (Rachel)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
18. JOB (Esther)
19. ABSALOM (Lazarus)
20. UZZIAH (Rahab)
21. MARY MAG (Ruth)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
22. MARY MAG (Balaam)

Day 3 Not Voting: Barnabas (3), Bathsheba (2), Hagar (2), Judah (3), Malchus, Pilate (2), Samuel (2), Stephen

DAY 4 Results:

1. RACHEL (Pilate)
2. JOB (Uzziah)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
3. BALAAM (Absalom)
4. BALAAM (Nicodemus)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
5. ABSALOM (Lazarus)
6. JOB (Rachel)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
7. BALAAM (Rebecca)
8. JOB (Stephen)
9. JOB (Jonah)
10. JOB (Samuel)
11. LAZARUS (Mordecai)
12. JOB (Balaam)
13. UZZIAH (Ruth)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
14. LAZARUS (Rahab)
15. RACHEL (Job)<---voter = civvie
16. BALAAM (Jephthah)<---voter = civvie
17. JOB (Esther)
18. JOB (Jonathan)<---voter = civvie
19. BALAAM (Judah)<---voter was the civvie smited after our second 3 civ stonings
20. DEBORAH (Deborah)
21. JOB (Belshazzar)

Not Voting: Barnabas (4), Bathsheba (3), Isaac (2), Jacob (2), Lot, Malchus (2)

DAY 5 Results:

1. UZZIAH (Pilate)
2. JEPHTHAH (Rebecca)
3. UZZIAH (Stephen)
4. UZZIAH (Absalom)
5. SAMUEL (Jephthah)<---voter = civvie
6. UZZIAH (Jonathan)<---voter = civvie
7. STEPHEN (Uzziah)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
8. JEPHTHAH (Lot)
9. UZZIAH (Esther)
10. JEPHTHAH (Samuel)
11. SAMUEL (Belshazzar)
12. UZZIAH (Ruth)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
13. ABSALOM (Lazarus)
14. UZZIAH (Rahab)
15. JEPHTHAH (Isaac)
16. UZZIAH (Rachel)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
17. UZZIAH (Mordecai)
18. MALCHUS (Deborah)
19. JEPHTHAH (Jonah)


Not Voting: Balaam, Bathsheba (4), Jacob (3), Judah (4), Malchus (3)

DAY 6 Results:
1. RACHEL (Isaac)
2. RUTH (Absalom)
3. RUTH (Stephen)
4. ABSALOM (Pilate)
5. RUTH (Lot)
6. PILATE (Esther)
7. RUTH (Jephthah)<---voter = civvie
8. RACHEL (Rebecca)
9. RACHEL (Mordecai)
10. PILATE (Rahab)
11. ABSALOM (Lazarus)
12. JACOB (Jonathan)<---voter = civvie
13. JACOB (Deborah)
14. RUTH (Rachel)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
15. RACHEL (Jacob)
16. ABSALOM (Ruth)<===VOTER = HEATHEN
17. RUTH (Balaam)
18. RUTH (Belshazzar)
19. RUTH (Samuel)
20. RUTH (Bathsheba)

Not Voting: Jonah (2), Judah (5), Malchus (4)

Day 7 Results:
1. JONATHAN (Absalom)
2. PILATE (Esther)
3. JONATHAN (Pilate)
4. REBECCA (Jephthah)<---voter = civvie
5. REBECCA (Jacob)
6. JONATHAN (Stephen)
7. PILATE (Rahab)
8. JEPHTHAH (Lot)
9. JEPHTHAH (Rebecca)
10. JEPHTHAH (Balaam)
11. JEPHTHAH (Samuel)
12. JEPHTHAH (Lazarus)
13. JEPHTHAH (Jonathan)<---voter = civvie
14. JONATHAN (Belshazzar)
15. JACOB (Rachel)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
16. BALAAM (Mordecai)

Not Voting:
Bathsheba (5), Deborah, Isaac (3), Jonah (3), Judah (6), Malchus (5)

Day 8 Results:
1. LAZARUS (Lot)
2. JONATHAN (Pilate)
3. JONATHAN (Stephen)
4. JONATHAN (Esther))
5. JONATHAN (Balaam)
6. JACOB (Rahab)
7. BALAAM (Mordecai)
8. JACOB (Rachel)<---voter = NK'ed by heathens
9. JONATHAN (Absalom)
10. JONATHAN (Deborah)
11. JONATHAN (Belshazzar)
12. JONATHAN (Jacob)
13. JONATHAN (Jonah)
14. LAZARUS (Lazarus)
15. JONATHAN (Samuel)

Not Voting: Bathsheba (6), Isaac (4),Jonathan, Judah (7), Malchus (6), Rebecca

I'll throw a little tin foil theorizing on this data at lunch. Unless Pilate and/or Stephen are Heathen, Day 1 reveals just how patient they were. Day 2 frustrates the heck out of me. Day 7 and 8 will prove informative once we catch Heathen #3.

[Paul Stevens]

It's only fitting that I be killed before the people who out themselves.
Thanks for the wonderful game, Epi-- maybe I can come back.

I didn't want to out, K? I hope you do get a rez. Sorry I went after you.

[Paul Stevens]

If we give the ultimatum "if he's not NKed let's lynch him" then duh obviously the baddies aren't going to NK him so they can get a free pass out of a lynch.

Why do people keep saying this since it is patently not what I or anyone else actually suggested....

I suggested that any disciples searching for another disciple to activate, target Isaac. When did this get bastardized into the heathen killing him?

I read it this way last night, as well. If that's not what you intended (making me a human sacrifice), then I apologize for misconstruing things. That would be why our convo got a little out of hand. I felt as if your whole intention was to get me killed one way or another just to be absolutely sure about me. If I do get activated, I really hope you're right about the protection. (I'm still not fully okay with this plan, though. I'm pretty comfortable on the fence).

I intend to be helpful today. I am very curious to see where this Rahab thing goes, so I will be on board there if that sounds like a good idea to everyone else.
I could also go for Mordecai vote, however, I don't know how I feel about both Pilate and Jacob backing me and wanting to vote for him....

What are current thoughts on Jacob, btw?

[Phoebe Buffay]

It's only fitting that I be killed before the people who out themselves.
Thanks for the wonderful game, Epi-- maybe I can come back.

I didn't want to out, K? I hope you do get a rez. Sorry I went after you.

[Prisoner 509378]

Tin foil hat time. There are 18 players left alive in this game, so I'll break this up into two groups of 4 and two groups of 5 so this doesn't get so long that people decided to skip another one of Balaam's ridiculously long list posts. :P

The point of this exercise is similar to what Absalom already did but I'm going to go a bit further and try to break this down as if each player is Heathen. I'll try to ascribe motive and intent to every single vote based on my notes and what I can remember from the voting period. Feel free to add to any sections you feel I skimped on. At the end of this exercise, hopefully we can all agree on who the three or four sketchiest sounding players are and discuss them further for the stoning poll.

Open my last technicolor vote recap in another window so you can use it as reference as you go through.

ABSALOM:
D1: 13th vote overall, 2nd vote for Cain (helps pump momentum into a Cain train to keep him as a D2 option- his Heathen friends follow suit late in the lynch period)
D2: 5th vote overall, 2nd vote for Cain (votes early for Cain to maintain appear consistent and to give Cain a lead over Absalom's teammate)
D3: 9th vote overall, 3rd vote for Uzziah (votes for a teammate after Rachel momentum dips- cred grab)
D4: 3rd vote overall, 1st vote for Balaam (votes for who he says he will- consistency move)
D5: 4th vote overall, 3rd vote for Uzziah (with Balaam not in the poll, no easy leftovers to set up, so he makes a cred grab and adds to the Uzz train)
D6: 2nd vote overall, 1st vote for Ruth (uses his knowledge of Heathen strategy to "break" the case on Ruth- gives him credibility and lull civvies into a false sense of security, also may help his teammates hide on another Heathen train)
D7: 1st vote overall, 1st vote for Jonathan (takes the easy way out and votes for suspicious looking baddie that has the attention of many)
D8: 9th vote overall, 5th vote for Jonathan (injects new life into the Jonathan train after not enough momentum builds for Laz, Jacob, or Balaam- OR just to look consistent again)


BALAAM:
D1: 29th vote overall, 5th vote for Cain (waits until the end of the day and piles on the runner-up in a civ v. civ train to make for easy D2 leftovers)
D2: 12th vote overall, 7th vote for Cain (votes for consistency and to lock up the lynching of another civ)
D3: 22nd vote overall, 7th vote for Mary (votes late to make sure his teammate Uzz doesn't not suffer a miraculous turnaround defeat)
D4: 12th vote overall, 6th vote for Job (votes to save his own ass and put another civ to death)
D5: Missed the vote (skips the vote and watches a teammate go down so he does not have to cast another sketchy vote)
D6: 17th vote overall, 6th vote for Ruth (votes to keep his teammate in the lead for a cred grab)
D7: 10th vote overall, 3rd vote for Jephthah (joins the quick and easy Jeph train to lynch one civ and keep a suspicious civ around for leftovers)
D8: 5th vote overall, 4th vote for Jonathan (piles onto an easy civ lynch)


BATHSHEBA:
D1: Missed the Vote (may be intentional so she isn't part of a D1 civ lynch, may have just missed it)
D2: 16th vote overall, 8th vote for Cain (votes last for a civ lynch to appear as a sheep following the bandwagon)
D3: Missed the vote (strategic miss to hamper vote analysis)
D4: Missed the vote (strategic miss just to lower our expectations of her)
D5: Missed the vote (strategic miss to mess with our heads)
D6: 20th vote overall, 9th vote for Ruth (cred grab and helps further thwart effective vote analysis)
D7: Missed the vote (strategic miss to throw us off in case we thought she would be more active after voting D6)
D8: Missed the vote (strategic miss- she's so far inside our heads by now, she's practically Inceptioned us)


BELSHAZZAR:
D1: 20th vote overall, 6th vote for Samson (seemingly safe to pile onto a civvie lynch while teammates build up leftovers for D2 in Cain- baddie vote-spread maneuver)
D2: 6th vote overall, 3rd vote for Cain (votes to put Cain ahead- innocent leftover lynch AND helps make it look like there was a save on Job)
D3: 14th vote overall, 3rd vote for Mary (assigned to vote for a suspicious civ to bring her to a tie with his teammate Uzz)
D4: 21st vote overall, 9th vote for Job (votes at the trail end for a civ- bad bandwagon follower play?)
D5: 11th vote overall, 2nd vote for Samuel (votes for a possibly sus civ over his teammate Uzz)
D6: 18th vote overall, 7th vote for Ruth (safe-ish vote for a teammate so no one suspects him after dodging Uzz D5- also helps put Ruth out of reach for the wifom factor)
D7: 14th vote overall, 4th vote for Jonathan (votes for Jonathan to keep him viable for D8- avoids a bad-looking civ train)
D8: 11th vote overall, 7th vote for Jonathan (easy vote for a player already out of reach based on past lynch results)


NOTE: this took way longer than I thought it would. I will try to get more done. The last two may have to wait until tonight.

[NurseWilgy]

I endorse and applaud Balaam's analysis. I tried to look at each player in the worst light as well, but two heads are better than one.

Why has no one answered my question about Balaam's voting pattern being directly adjacent to Ruth's? The silence on this subject is making me nervous.

[Prisoner 509378]

DEBORAH:
D1: 12th vote overall, 1st vote for Cain (enough chatter over Cain to warrant a vote and to help teammates vote late for Cain to set him up as leftovers)
D2: 7th vote overall, 4th vote for Cain (to look consistent but also right in the middle of the votes can help look like a save on Job)
D3: 16th vote overall, 5th vote for Mary (protecting Uzz while also looking like a foolish bandwagon follower, might also serve to set up what looks like a Laz save)
D4: 20th vote overall, 1st vote for Deborah (self-votes to avoid any incriminating activity this day- messes with vote analysis)
D5: 18th vote overall, 1st vote for Malchus (votes late at the end of the lynch period to send a "message" vote to a quiet player rather than vote for her teammate or to further set Jephthah up as leftovers)
D6: 13th vote overall, 2nd vote for Jacob (vote-spread attempt to slow down momentum on Ruth and to glom onto the suspicions of a civ for cred)
D7: Missed the vote (legit or planned, helps her avoid a bad-looking Jeph-train and helps her avoid voting on Jonathan, who she glommed onto the day before)
D8: 10th vote overall, 6th vote for Jonathan (turns on Jonathan to blend in with a day of votes that don't shed much light on anything- helps put Jonathan away)



ESTHER:
D1: Missed the vote (real or by design- avoids taking sides on top two civs)
D2: Missed the vote (helps keep her hands clean of two hasty lynches)
D3: 18th vote overall, 4th vote for Job (votes to keep Job close as an option or to distance herself from hasty Mary lynch)
D4: 17th vote overall, 7th vote for Job (votes to help create appearance of a Balaam save and for cred when Job flips civ)
D5: 9th vote overall, 5th vote for Uzziah (votes for her teammate Uzz for a cred grab)
D6: 6th vote overall, 1st vote for Pilate (attempted save of Ruth? attempt to make Pilate sus for D7?)
D7: 2nd vote overall, 1st vote for Pilate (votes early for consistency)
D8: 4th vote overall, 3rd vote for Jonathan (votes to keep an easy sus civ train rolling)



ISAAC:
D1: 14th vote overall, 3rd vote for Samson (votes to put Samson ahead of his teammate)
D2: Missed the vote (real or intentional to mess with vote analysis)
D3: 7th vote overall, 2nd for Job (votes Job over Rachel because more likely to set Job up and save Uzz)
D4: Missed the vote (says after missing that he'd still have voted Job- ploy for misguided civvie cred?)
D5: 15th vote overall, 4th vote for Jephthah (either actually thinks he can save Uzziah or just helping set up Jeph for later)
D6: 1st vote overall, 1st vote for Rachel (quick trigger- then walks back from it and says he'd vote differently though it contributes to a near civvie train on Rachel)
D7: Missed the vote (staying out of dodge after some sketchy votes?)
D8: Missed the vote (^?- avoids a train on a civ)



JACOB:
D1: 15th vote overall, 4th vote for Samson (gives a bigger lead over his teammate while also making it look like there may be a save on Cain happening)
D2: Missed the vote (keeps his hands clean on Cain)
D3: 13th vote overall, 2nd vote for Mary (latches onto Mary's stubbornness and uses it to his advantage- helps oil the train wheels and saves Uzz)
D4: Missed the vote (keeps his hands clean)
D5: Missed the vote (avoids voting for a teammate and also prevents him from being part of too many civ trains by skipping Jeph)
D6: 15th vote overall, 4th vote for Rachel (either a misguided attempt to save Ruth or just trying to set up Rachel for leftovers)
D7: 5th vote overall, 2nd vote for Rebecca (helps give the appearance of a Jonathan save and makes Jeph look really bad at the same time- helps to set up the train on Jeph later that day)
D8: 12th vote overall, 8th vote for Jonathan (joins in on the bandwagon- easy blending day)



JONAH:
D1: 19th vote overall, 1st for Mary (votes for someone without any votes to spread things out and mess with vote analysis)
D2: Missed the vote (additional vote analysis tampering)
D3: 8th vote overall, 1st vote for Rahab (votes for another person with no votes- non-committal and helps spread things- doesn't really help Uzz, but hey- it's a wacky randomish vote)
D4: 9th vote overall, 4th vote for Job (Nudge Job into the lead to keep the action on Job v. Balaam)
D5: 19th vote overall, 5th vote for Jephthah (votes last after his teammate has no chance of surviving- helps set Jeph up as leftovers)
D6: Missed the vote (avoids voting to save or lynch another teammate)
D7: Missed the vote (content to let the civs fight amongst themselves)
D8: 13th vote overall, 9th vote for Jonathan (joins late on an easy blendy bandwagon against a civ)

[Prisoner 509378]

Why has no one answered my question about Balaam's voting pattern being directly adjacent to Ruth's? The silence on this subject is making me nervous.

I had a question on that actually. Thank you for reminding me.

You said I voted immediately after Ruth twice- Day 1 and Day 3. On Day 1, there were three votes separating Ruth's vote and my vote. Are you focusing on the fact that Ruth and I voted for the same person both of those days and I was the next vote for the same person she voted for after she voted that person?

For me, it seemed a little dishonest to frame it as me voting right after Ruth two out of the first three days. If what I laid out above is on your wavelength, I think it could be described better as Balaam matching Ruth's vote for the same person two out of three days. Even that isn't worded the best, but is that what you're trying to get at?