Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[Canucklehead]

damn it, i just can't vote golden again. i don't care if he's a baddie or not, it feels like rejecting a friend. he's totally right about him and other talkative players like MP and epi getting heat just for talking, rather than for the content of their posts. it isn't right,and the game would be dead in the water without their input, i don't think anyone should be punished for posting a lot, even though it obviously makes them a bigger target.

hope you have a good trip golden! i wont vote you out though!!!
and i know my own arguments are flipping back and forth but thats what happens when you get emotionally invested in a game like this ><

voting rey on golden's testimony

This is what "emotionally invested" looks like for you?!
You have 22 posts. Only 7 of those posts are longer than one line. Of those 7, two are jokes, and one is an excuse for why you've not been around.
Based on this, I'm going to suggest that being overly "emotionally invested" is not a super believable excuse for your waffling.

[birdwithteeth11]

Alright, so Golden had his giant meltdown and self-vote post, so I get the feeling he will not be responding back to me. So I won't hold out hope there.

I'm not sure which side of the Golden vs. rey debate I fall on yet. Need to think on it some more though.

For now though, I would feel comfortable with a vote on either aapje or Unfurl. Aapje because of his insistence so far to only look at voting low posters, even though we are on Day 3 at this point and have mounds of posts to sort through. And Unfurl because her comments after the Bass lynch do not make me feel any better about her. In fact, I think she's contradicting herself now. I will place a vote on unfurl for now and re-evaluate later.

Votes Unfurl

Linki: Does TinyBubbles normally have more significant posts than what she's displayed in this game? Because I think this is the first time I've ever played with her. Even still, the content I've seen would hardly suggest she is "emotionally invested" whatsoever.

[unfurl]

I see my name in the poll, with two votes, well I need to read several pages, but I also needs to work, so I will try to catch up as the day goes on

[nutella]

Guys don't freak out, LC answered somewhere that the thread lock would only be 4-6 hours.

Still good to register early votes though. I'd consider a vote for Rey since I could totally see him having killed Epi.

Ok Nutella will be much simpler, no spoiler quotes. The thing with Nutella is that she always reads blends to me when she is civ. Always. And I have said before, I'll say it again, if I get good feels from Nutella, she is probably bad. If I get baddie vibes from Nutella, she is probably good. I don't like that reading back over her posts I see confident Nutella. Confident Nutella usually = Baddie Nutella. Read her posts, while she does change her mind,she doesn't read as uncertain as she does when she is a civ. They are more clear straight forward stances with less of the waffling that usually gets her lynched as a civ.

If I was putting her in a rainbow list, I would have her as orange.

I think I haven't come across as waffley this game because of its setup. We started out with a majority of players being unrecruited, so I basically assumed most people were unrecruited, rather than being pressured into having civ or baddie reads of people, which are always difficult early in the game. It's not that I'm not uncertain about a lot of players, it's that the things I've been talking about are the things I have stronger convictions about. In more typical games that start out with full civvie and baddie teams, there's a lot more pressure in the thread to decide on stuff like rainbow lists and a definitive perspective on players who are under scrutiny, and that's the stuff that I tend to waffle on and get in trouble for (and btw @ Lorab yes in fact I have still been getting lynched as a civ for these reasons in the last couple games I've played recently). In this game I'm just observing things on my own, and there are certainly players/topics of discussion in the thread that I don't have strong opinions of either way.

That said, I don't agree with your suspicion of Unfurl, I think she is genuine.

[thellama73]

damn it, i just can't vote golden again. i don't care if he's a baddie or not, it feels like rejecting a friend. he's totally right about him and other talkative players like MP and epi getting heat just for talking, rather than for the content of their posts. it isn't right,and the game would be dead in the water without their input, i don't think anyone should be punished for posting a lot, even though it obviously makes them a bigger target.

hope you have a good trip golden! i wont vote you out though!!!
and i know my own arguments are flipping back and forth but thats what happens when you get emotionally invested in a game like this ><

voting rey on golden's testimony

This is what "emotionally invested" looks like for you?!
You have 22 posts. Only 7 of those posts are longer than one line. Of those 7, two are jokes, and one is an excuse for why you've not been around.
Based on this, I'm going to suggest that being overly "emotionally invested" is not a super believable excuse for your waffling.

I don't look so stupid for my early suspicion of TinyBubbles now, do I?

[Canucklehead]

damn it, i just can't vote golden again. i don't care if he's a baddie or not, it feels like rejecting a friend. he's totally right about him and other talkative players like MP and epi getting heat just for talking, rather than for the content of their posts. it isn't right,and the game would be dead in the water without their input, i don't think anyone should be punished for posting a lot, even though it obviously makes them a bigger target.

hope you have a good trip golden! i wont vote you out though!!!
and i know my own arguments are flipping back and forth but thats what happens when you get emotionally invested in a game like this ><

voting rey on golden's testimony

This is what "emotionally invested" looks like for you?!
You have 22 posts. Only 7 of those posts are longer than one line. Of those 7, two are jokes, and one is an excuse for why you've not been around.
Based on this, I'm going to suggest that being overly "emotionally invested" is not a super believable excuse for your waffling.

I don't look so stupid for my early suspicion of TinyBubbles now, do I?

You never look stupid, sir. Your exquisite moustache ensures that.

[DharmaHelper]

Vote registered to Golden

[unfurl]

birdwithteeth11
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 73#p170173
read my post, I did not say RIP I said Bye, good thing you said you read my posts, makes point you did not
Too bad you dont think I have contributed much to the game, thats your opinion, great way to encourage players to keep playing in this site!!!
I was not around when you finally answered your questions to me
Perhaps my reasons for votting for you were not the strongest or the clearest but that was it at the moment, maybe I need to learn to make better cases
can someone teach me?

I know you said bye, not RIP. Where did you think I thought you said that? I thought I read through your posts fairly well.

How am I trying to discourage you from playing here? I just happen to think you've said a lot without saying much that adds to the content so far. It seems to me like you're taking my comments way too personally. It's a game, ya'll.

I went ahead and voted for you because I couldn't wait any longer for you to give your response. Otherwise you might have convinced me to look elsewhere. But you didn't and so it is what it is now.

Also, your comment about how the most engaging people are the only ones who are going to get lynched and/or killed? Are you trying to be intentionally divisive?

seriously you said says rip etc.... you said I said it, I dont even know why it was important for you to mention it, but still proves that you dont even know what you wrote
look at the link

bwt said:

Says RIP to Epig and Typh. Otherwise, looks to me like she says she takes awhile to get going in most games, and feels overwhelmed with all the reading/posts involved.

also I did not meant hard core players are going to be lynched, Im saying low poster will be lynched because the feel around is, they are not contributed so lets lynch them, but the same time a double standart of look at me Im contributed so much to the game, that the best plan is to go after low poster

I dont know if at this poing is an english issue, that people dont understand what Im saying tbqh
Fustrating

---

@ Spacedaisy
Im usually full of contradicitions , it does mean nothing to my alliance ever, Im weird person that is true, still it means nothing wheter Im good/bad/Neutral
Is very easy for people to think of me as bad, I dont express myself good enough for most people taste

---

Maybe people think is an excuse when I say I dont have a lot time to be reading to every single word, Im a slow reader and Im skimming a lot of the wall of text, maybe I should had not signep to the game, that will had been the wises idea when I know my schedule is not so free, so my fault for wanting to play

---

Golden, I do mentioned it previously, a little bit, but if you want to hear more about what I think about you let me know ok

---

As for my vote today, maybe I will joing the club and vote for a low poster, oh wait Im contradicting myself again

[Spacedaisy]

Guys don't freak out, LC answered somewhere that the thread lock would only be 4-6 hours.

Still good to register early votes though. I'd consider a vote for Rey since I could totally see him having killed Epi.

Ok Nutella will be much simpler, no spoiler quotes. The thing with Nutella is that she always reads blends to me when she is civ. Always. And I have said before, I'll say it again, if I get good feels from Nutella, she is probably bad. If I get baddie vibes from Nutella, she is probably good. I don't like that reading back over her posts I see confident Nutella. Confident Nutella usually = Baddie Nutella. Read her posts, while she does change her mind,she doesn't read as uncertain as she does when she is a civ. They are more clear straight forward stances with less of the waffling that usually gets her lynched as a civ.

If I was putting her in a rainbow list, I would have her as orange.

I think I haven't come across as waffley this game because of its setup. We started out with a majority of players being unrecruited, so I basically assumed most people were unrecruited, rather than being pressured into having civ or baddie reads of people, which are always difficult early in the game. It's not that I'm not uncertain about a lot of players, it's that the things I've been talking about are the things I have stronger convictions about. In more typical games that start out with full civvie and baddie teams, there's a lot more pressure in the thread to decide on stuff like rainbow lists and a definitive perspective on players who are under scrutiny, and that's the stuff that I tend to waffle on and get in trouble for (and btw @ Lorab yes in fact I have still been getting lynched as a civ for these reasons in the last couple games I've played recently). In this game I'm just observing things on my own, and there are certainly players/topics of discussion in the thread that I don't have strong opinions of either way.

That said, I don't agree with your suspicion of Unfurl, I think she is genuine.

This answer made me feel miles better about you. It was the set up with neutrals at the start that kept me from feeling 100% about you, and I didn't mention it because I wanted to see how you would respond. This rings true to me.

Lorab, your response about her age doesn't hold water for me because in the recent games I have played with her this meta has still been there. That is not to say her game play hasn't evolved, she is a great player for sure, but even in the last game I played with her she herself admitted to this meta? She was explaining why she comes across blendy, they didn't believe her, she got lynched and flipped civ.

[Spacedaisy]

Two things unfurl.

1. I will keep this in mind about you regarding contradictions. I have limited knowledge of your game play,we've only played a handful of games together I believe. I will freely admit to not feeling like I read you well for this reason.

2. You keep going on about how you are just you, it's how you play but then you turn around with snarky jokes about other people's suspicions. Well, I play the way I play. Making fun of the fact I find contradictions suspect doesn't make me feel good about you. In fact it grates me really wrong and kind of pisses me off. Make fun all you want, most people do find them suspicious.

I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, but I'm open to hearing input from people who have played more with unfurl than I have. I would prefer to get a baddie than a neutral personally. They aren't bad lynches but they aren't good ones either.

[unfurl]

Two things unfurl.

1. I will keep this in mind about you regarding contradictions. I have limited knowledge of your game play,we've only played a handful of games together I believe. I will freely admit to not feeling like I read you well for this reason.

2. You keep going on about how you are just you, it's how you play but then you turn around with snarky jokes about other people's suspicions. Well, I play the way I play. Making fun of the fact I find contradictions suspect doesn't make me feel good about you. In fact it grates me really wrong and kind of pisses me off. Make fun all you want, most people do find them suspicious.

I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, but I'm open to hearing input from people who have played more with unfurl than I have. I would prefer to get a baddie than a neutral personally. They aren't bad lynches but they aren't good ones either.

1. ok fair enough

2. I did not think I was being snarky, maybe we have different sense of humour, if people think I was snarky then sorry, that was not my intention, cause in previous games before a lot people think Im bad cause Im too nice, so I guess is relative to what people consider snarky

Several people already gave their 2 cents on how they feel about me, since day1, I dont know if you did not noticed it, or you want more from them, I guess thats up those players to speak up

[Scotty]

A name that pop up to me as I read his posts:
aapje

So what is up with DF and DP? DF has missed both polls and DP hasn't contributed anything so far. I honestly wouldn't mind lynching either of them. If we are lynching neutrals anyway we might as well get rid of people who aren't really playing the game to begin with

I gave Russtifinko a pass since he asked to be replaced.

I disagree with the strategy of lynching no-shows this game. While they haven't been strictly no-shows, and I usually operate under the mode of "Come to play" I thought we were actively looking for baddies, not just neutrals. As a matter of fact, the more we look at lynching neutrals, the longer the bad recruiters have chances of recruiting more people.

No if they were total no shows they would be modkilled / replaced. Although I have good hopes of DF missing his 3rd vote in a row
Also if the last recruitment games are any indication all teams have a limited number of recruits.

Spoiler: show

I agree entirely. I'm not really sure why TH has votes, to me it is pretty much on the same place on the curve as random. Although someone like G-Man is not basing it solely on the Speaker.

I can see why people could be suspicious of TH.

I don't want to be recruited. Y'all better leave me alone.

Could it be he doesn't want people to try and recruit him because he's already on a team?

All the recruiters are equally naughty. What makes half of them more civvie than the others, other than that's what we're told to call them? They all seem nearly equal in power.

Doesn't sound very civvie minded either.

All in all not a whole lot to go on but I can see why people would consider voting for him.

I had to manually create linkbacks for this post like some kind of peasant

He lists reasons why "people" would be suspicious of voting TH, and even admits that he "doesn't sound very civvie minded either"
He follows this up by VOTING FOR DisgruntledPorcupine for not posting.

When TH responds with a "yeah, it wasn't a very civ-thing to say," aapje says:

Fair enough. Wasn't planning on voting for you over it anyway. Was just checking what you actually said when people were voting for you.

Ho-hum. To state that he thinks something sounds not civ-like to immediately discrediting himself when TH literally admits to such claims is sketchy at best. It's not enough to warrant a vote, ok. But to say he wasn't going to vote for him at all for sketchy behavior raises my red sails.

Here is the full response TH made:

You're right, it wasn't a very civvie minded thing to say. It was a neutral thing to say.

And I don't want to be recruited yet because I like keeping my options open. I played RM I and III, and this is the first time I've made it past Night 0 without a team. It's quite liberating. Team Neutral 4 Life yo.

A reply which made sense to me. As you have already noticed, I am not yet in baddie hunting mode. I'm sure I will get around to it, if I had to guess I'd say somewhere after the weekend. As for now I'd rather get rid of some non-contributors.

This comes off as baddie to me because you're still making compromises like it's Day 1, but it is not. There are ample posts in this thread so far that could give you info to baddie-hunt. The fact that you are just openly choosing not to baddie hunt is troubling to me.

Our strategies are very different, and you could just come back and say as such and move on. But in your strategy, you're picking off people that talk very little. That is not only the easiest fallback option if you're bad, but also the longer we wait to look for scum, the more scum will be recruited. I think you understand that reasoning, and are just choosing to ignore it. It doesn't make sense to me if you are good.

[DrWilgy]

D:

Why are we voting Unfurl? She is my friend...

(still catching up @ -200 posts)

[unfurl]

Registering a vote for golden

Because I just can't be bothered any more.

Golden, I get the fustration, hey I feel fustrated at some point in every game I have played, and fustration is relative to each player
but I can never understand what drives someone to vote for themself out of it
I prefer to be modkilled if Im not having fun, but votting for myself I dont recall ever done it

[Scotty]

Registering a vote for golden

Because I just can't be bothered any more.

Golden, I get the fustration, hey I feel fustrated at some point in every game I have played, and fustration is relative to each player
but I can never understand what drives someone to vote for themself out of it
I prefer to be modkilled if Im not having fun, but votting for myself I dont recall ever done it

Perhaps Golden has some abilities that are better known in the open, and maybe people can use that info better?

I voted myself yesterday because I was frustrated with the lack of time I had and could understand if people deemed that vote-worthy.
Golden has had to defend himself all game. Since he still feel like he needs to defend himself, he's not going to have a lot of time to participate over the next day he said and probably just wants a breather.

[LoRab]

Registering a vote for golden

Because I just can't be bothered any more.

All of those of you who insist I'm bad, I ask only that you remember this game for next time, primarily because I have literally been honest about every single thing, because you have used semantics against me, and because there are a lot of you who think you know me a lot better than you do (and I'd call epi chief among them, but I have to admit I'm surprised at how much SVS has misjudged my motives this game). And most of all because there are a lot of people tunnelling me who are wilfully deaf to all the responses I have given.

I also wish people would think about this, because it's important. I take heat from the start of every single game. So does MP. So does epi, to be fair. At some point, people ought to realise that we are taking heat solely for speaking a lot. If you speak a lot, it's guaranteed you will say something suspicious. The only way you can judge whether or not that suspicion is accurate, though, is to actually listen to people's defenses. There is a lot of evidence from those suspecting me this game that they are ignoring most of what I have to say, most of what MP has to say etc. Sometimes people aren't even secret about it. They skim the high posters. I only take this much heat because I speak a lot. The best reaction I could possibly make to this game to adjust so as to survive is to not be honest. You know what? I could have just lied about the fact I was trying to get the baddies to lynch epi. I didn't need to bring it up. It would have been in MY best interests never to say it. But that's just not what I think is in the towns interests. Being honest is better.

I'm travelling for most of this day anyway, and then I'm on holiday for 11 days, and I have no intention of spending my holiday stressed out defending myself. Good luck. I think the civs will need it.

PS - Rey's suspicion of me is literally bullsuit. When you've seen me flip, take my advice and lynch him next.

(Yes, this is permission for everyone to lynch me. Let me be very clear though, I WILL be playing for rezzes, in fact I'll be working hard for them. Right now, I think being lynched so that you can all see you are wrong is my best outcome, so that I can try and get back into the game with everyone having got this out of their system. Trust me though, when I'm back, if rey is alive he is going down).

PPS - hey, baddie team that killed epi. Fancy a DH kill tonight?

I'm tempted to vote for you, not so much because I think you've been recruited to the baddies--I don't actually. I think you're still unrecruited neutral. But I don't think you're playing in the best interest of the civies at this point. And I think that discussion of you is becoming a distraction from focusing on actually finding baddies.

Guys don't freak out, LC answered somewhere that the thread lock would only be 4-6 hours.

Still good to register early votes though. I'd consider a vote for Rey since I could totally see him having killed Epi.

Ok Nutella will be much simpler, no spoiler quotes. The thing with Nutella is that she always reads blends to me when she is civ. Always. And I have said before, I'll say it again, if I get good feels from Nutella, she is probably bad. If I get baddie vibes from Nutella, she is probably good. I don't like that reading back over her posts I see confident Nutella. Confident Nutella usually = Baddie Nutella. Read her posts, while she does change her mind,she doesn't read as uncertain as she does when she is a civ. They are more clear straight forward stances with less of the waffling that usually gets her lynched as a civ.

If I was putting her in a rainbow list, I would have her as orange.

I think I haven't come across as waffley this game because of its setup. We started out with a majority of players being unrecruited, so I basically assumed most people were unrecruited, rather than being pressured into having civ or baddie reads of people, which are always difficult early in the game. It's not that I'm not uncertain about a lot of players, it's that the things I've been talking about are the things I have stronger convictions about. In more typical games that start out with full civvie and baddie teams, there's a lot more pressure in the thread to decide on stuff like rainbow lists and a definitive perspective on players who are under scrutiny, and that's the stuff that I tend to waffle on and get in trouble for (and btw @ Lorab yes in fact I have still been getting lynched as a civ for these reasons in the last couple games I've played recently). In this game I'm just observing things on my own, and there are certainly players/topics of discussion in the thread that I don't have strong opinions of either way.

That said, I don't agree with your suspicion of Unfurl, I think she is genuine.

This answer made me feel miles better about you. It was the set up with neutrals at the start that kept me from feeling 100% about you, and I didn't mention it because I wanted to see how you would respond. This rings true to me.

Lorab, your response about her age doesn't hold water for me because in the recent games I have played with her this meta has still been there. That is not to say her game play hasn't evolved, she is a great player for sure, but even in the last game I played with her she herself admitted to this meta? She was explaining why she comes across blendy, they didn't believe her, she got lynched and flipped civ.

Good to know. I haven't played with her for a while. and she attests to he same patterns. I will keep this in mind.

[unfurl]

aapje,
besides from low posters
hypoteticall case, you join the good side will you look for baddies? or still playing more like a neutral?

---

TinyBubbles
you said

i know my own arguments are flipping back and forth but thats what happens when you get emotionally invested in a game like this

how is that you are emotionally invested? can you point to where you felt that way?

---

@ linki Scotty
perhaps you could be right, I recall timmer also did it, and I seen in other games too where people to it, but I still dont understand it
So if I ever vote for myself, people should take note, I was force to do it I hope this does not give idea to people with vote manipulations powers

[Scotty]

aapje,
besides from low posters
hypoteticall case, you join the good side will you look for baddies? or still playing more like a neutral?

---

TinyBubbles
you said

i know my own arguments are flipping back and forth but thats what happens when you get emotionally invested in a game like this

how is that you are emotionally invested? can you point to where you felt that way?

---

@ linki Scotty
perhaps you could be right, I recall timmer also did it, and I seen in other games too where people to it, but I still dont understand it
So if I ever vote for myself, people should take note, I was force to do it I hope this does not give idea to people with vote manipulations powers

Never say never ... sometimes life happens. I think if you like mafia, you have in the back of your mind the thought that you'll get back on track after getting out of a brief funk, so it's a better alternative than mod-killing.

[Roxy]

So what is up with DF and DP? DF has missed both polls and DP hasn't contributed anything so far. I honestly wouldn't mind lynching either of them. If we are lynching neutrals anyway we might as well get rid of people who aren't really playing the game to begin with

I gave Russtifinko a pass since he asked to be replaced.

Somehow I always expect *more* from you.

I think this is an awful plan - I personally would rather track down baddies and their recruiters.

See the thing is this: I don't know yet with which team I am going to win (yes I plan to win :P ) so for now staying alive while other people die is my main objective. Since I'm not yet particularly interested in who lives or dies (other than myself) I'd rather get rid of those who aren't really contributing anyway. I don't like giving people a free pass for not participating. Not to mention the danger those who fly under the radar pose, MP won the last edition of recruitment mafia.
Is it so wrong to want to play with people who are playing the game as well?

No it is not wrong to want to play with people you think are playing thegame.
Remember though everyone has different styles or limited time to post.

Thanks for explaining though I won't be playing this wayyour explanation helps me understand where you are coming from.

[Roxy]

quote="Bullzeye"]

Wouldn't blendy and shifty also signify a neutral aligned role?

Depends how you look at it. Shifty in particular is not a word I use as a positive trait, it's something I very much associate with the baddies. He earned my vote by dropping NO Us in response to being asked to speak about a topic other than MP and then not giving satisfactory responses to the questions he was being asked by myself and others. It's a shame he wasn't a baddie but it's no different to me than any other lynch I've been part of. Sometimes you just get it wrong. Nobody's perfect.

Isn't that what you do when under suspicion? Point out others? Always gonna be a no u in a group like this bc it is highly likely a baddie was in on getting this easy lynch pushed through.
His answers seemed satifactory to me especially in the end.
Yep sometimes we get it wrong but to me yesterdays lynch was a big double standard.

There's pointing out people who might be bad and there's saying "Nutella voted for me, she's probably bad" and "JJJ is questioning me, he's probably a recruit because he said he might ask to be replaced but changed his mind". If you can't accept that I found that suspicious enough to warrant my vote then I don't know what more to say on the matter.[/quote]

If I was bass I prob would have done the same thing when pushed so hard at the end of day.

I am letting this drop except to say that those who pushed his lynch and were feeling good about his reveal as unrecruited have my undying suspicion this game.

[Roxy]

Ebwop

Wouldn't blendy and shifty also signify a neutral aligned role?

Depends how you look at it. Shifty in particular is not a word I use as a positive trait, it's something I very much associate with the baddies. He earned my vote by dropping NO Us in response to being asked to speak about a topic other than MP and then not giving satisfactory responses to the questions he was being asked by myself and others. It's a shame he wasn't a baddie but it's no different to me than any other lynch I've been part of. Sometimes you just get it wrong. Nobody's perfect.

Isn't that what you do when under suspicion? Point out others? Always gonna be a no u in a group like this bc it is highly likely a baddie was in on getting this easy lynch pushed through.
His answers seemed satifactory to me especially in the end.
Yep sometimes we get it wrong but to me yesterdays lynch was a big double standard.

There's pointing out people who might be bad and there's saying "Nutella voted for me, she's probably bad" and "JJJ is questioning me, he's probably a recruit because he said he might ask to be replaced but changed his mind". If you can't accept that I found that suspicious enough to warrant my vote then I don't know what more to say on the matter.

If I was bass I prob would have done the same thing when pushed so hard at the end of day.

I am letting this drop except to say that those who pushed his lynch and were feeling good about his reveal as unrecruited have my undying suspicion this game.

[Scotty]

damn it, i just can't vote golden again. i don't care if he's a baddie or not, it feels like rejecting a friend. he's totally right about him and other talkative players like MP and epi getting heat just for talking, rather than for the content of their posts. it isn't right,and the game would be dead in the water without their input, i don't think anyone should be punished for posting a lot, even though it obviously makes them a bigger target.

hope you have a good trip golden! i wont vote you out though!!!
and i know my own arguments are flipping back and forth but thats what happens when you get emotionally invested in a game like this ><

voting rey on golden's testimony

Looking through your posts, I don't, in fact, see what emotional investment you have in the game. Not to talk down to your actual investment if you have it, but I can't read you face. I read your words. And your words seem rather friendly and non-committal, with a couple 'Oops!'s' thrown in.

I actually would see TinyBubbles as a prime recruiting candidate on the other end of the spectrum. I mean to say: either really town-looking baddie-hunter extraordinaire or realllly blendy and nice. Bubbles fits in nicely in that niche latter end.

She mentions earlier not having a lot of free time to post- ok, I get that. But nodding your head and stating that you're emotionally invested in the game is akin to a pie maker baking just the outer unfinished, doughy crust of a pecan pie and selling it as a complete pecan pie on the grounds that you put your heart into making it. Ah, but it still doesn't make it a pecan pie. AND DADDY WANTS HIS PECAN PIE DAMMIT.

[thellama73]

@ Spacedaisy
Im usually full of contradicitions , it does mean nothing to my alliance ever, Im weird person that is true, still it means nothing wheter Im good/bad/Neutral
Is very easy for people to think of me as bad, I dont express myself good enough for most people taste

Yeah, nothing I ever do indicates whether I'm good or bad either. Don't analyze anything I say, because you will find nothing and it's all meaningless.

Come on, unfurl, do you really expect us to believe that?

[unfurl]

@ Spacedaisy
Im usually full of contradicitions , it does mean nothing to my alliance ever, Im weird person that is true, still it means nothing wheter Im good/bad/Neutral
Is very easy for people to think of me as bad, I dont express myself good enough for most people taste

Yeah, nothing I ever do indicates whether I'm good or bad either. Don't analyze anything I say, because you will find nothing and it's all meaningless.

Come on, unfurl, do you really expect us to believe that?

I say a lot things and people take it the wrong way, there are been 3 days, with me getting votes, and so far, 2 of those days were thrown early on
and I know where I belong, so

[timmer]

Trying to read through Day 2. It's a very frustrating read. Lots of people getting pissy, lots of odd votes that don't seem explained by anything... I hope the day gets a bit easier my head hurts.

[nutella]

Damn it Scotty now I want pecan pie. It's my favorite and I make a mean one with homemade crust every Thanksgiving.
Also that's another thing I miss about The Piano -- everyone's favorite kind of pie was listed in their user sidebar bc it was the spambot filter question Dan added.

And Timmer your avatar makes me sad every time I see it! Loved that movie.

I too am confused by Bubbles' "emotionally invested" comment, but I don't want to over-scrutinize it. To me it sounds like she still hasn't found her footing in the game, and I don't see her as a likely recruit but I won't discount the possibility.

When I have more time I think I'll read over some of the points that have been raised about Scotty, since I glossed over a lot of that discussion while catching up and I want to see what I missed regarding him because it looked interesting.

[Roxy]

What I find dubious, llama, is that you don't seem willing to grant that what I was doing was directly relevant to "detecting bad guys". I wasn't forcing Bass to "dance for my amusement" at all.

There are lots of things you coul have asked Bass. I don't think demanding reads on random people was productive at all. It just seemed mean.

I certainly didn't intend to be mean. I intended to generate meaningful information to further my own understanding of Bass. Bass, if you found my behavior distasteful then I apologize for that.

Did anyone else feel that way? I ask because if this perspective is a trend then I'll need to reassess my approach. I don't want to baddie hunt so hard that I become a jerk.

I disagree with the idea that it was mean entirely.

Can I see that it could be reasonably perceived as uniquely targeted and so a manipulative move from a baddie? Yes. (I don't think it was, but I can understand that perspective). But that doesn't make it mean to do it.

Not mean.Manipulative - yes. Pushy - yes.

[thellama73]

What I find dubious, llama, is that you don't seem willing to grant that what I was doing was directly relevant to "detecting bad guys". I wasn't forcing Bass to "dance for my amusement" at all.

There are lots of things you coul have asked Bass. I don't think demanding reads on random people was productive at all. It just seemed mean.

I certainly didn't intend to be mean. I intended to generate meaningful information to further my own understanding of Bass. Bass, if you found my behavior distasteful then I apologize for that.

Did anyone else feel that way? I ask because if this perspective is a trend then I'll need to reassess my approach. I don't want to baddie hunt so hard that I become a jerk.

I disagree with the idea that it was mean entirely.

Can I see that it could be reasonably perceived as uniquely targeted and so a manipulative move from a baddie? Yes. (I don't think it was, but I can understand that perspective). But that doesn't make it mean to do it.

Not mean.Manipulative - yes. Pushy - yes.

Fair enough. Perhaps I reacted too strongly. After all, hindsight is 20/20, and knowing what kind of player Bass is, and knowing that he was not bad now, it struck me as unfair to make those kind of demands from him. But I only saw it after the fact and I probably would have felt differently in the heat of the moment. I apologize if my comments offended you, JJJ.

[Scotty]

Damn it Scotty now I want pecan pie. It's my favorite and I make a mean one with homemade crust every Thanksgiving.
Also that's another thing I miss about The Piano -- everyone's favorite kind of pie was listed in their user sidebar bc it was the spambot filter question Dan added.

And Timmer your avatar makes me sad every time I see it! Loved that movie.

I too am confused by Bubbles' "emotionally invested" comment, but I don't want to over-scrutinize it. To me it sounds like she still hasn't found her footing in the game, and I don't see her as a likely recruit but I won't discount the possibility.

When I have more time I think I'll read over some of the points that have been raised about Scotty, since I glossed over a lot of that discussion while catching up and I want to see what I missed regarding him because it looked interesting.

Pecan pie is the best- I often add too much sugar and vanilla and screw it up for my insides, but damn it's a good November pie

Yeah, It's a minor point, but even apart from that comment, she has been vocal about voting for whoever had a chance to get lynched. It seems weak and bandwagon-y all around.

If she gets more time to respond and look through things, I want to see more original thoughts from her, because right now she's bleating.

And as for the arguments against me, and the epically anti-climactic fight between me and JJJ? I'd like to equate its excitement to the Pacquiao v Mayweather fight. Big build-up, no KOs, and people wanting their $120 subscription back.

[timmer]

So as I'm reading along, the endless back and forths regarding Golden and MP truck along. They haven't play out yet and I've got a lot of pages to go, but for now I will say that I don't see a problem with MP's game, I'm a fan of his thinking in this game. Golden's playing a sort of similar game, but he seems to be shying away from admitting that his stance on Epig was odd, even for this game. SVS keeps mentioning it, but he isn't directly addressing it, even as he says he is. I'm liking MP more than Golden. And SVS' game is topnotch.

[nutella]

Ok, looking at the exchange between JJJ and Scotty I find myself agreeing more with Scotty and not really grokking JJJ's reasons for suspecting him. Most of what Scotty has posted, from what I see, strikes me as eminently reasonable. He brings up and in fact votes for aapje with quite good reasoning.
I never know what to think of aapje, but he is certainly very scary as a baddie. You make a good point about his contributions being mostly about game mechanics and staying out of player discussion. From my experience that is kind of his MO but to be fair he has been bad in a lot of games I've played with him. Regardless of his alignment he is always known as "the genius monkey who asks way too many zillions of host questions" and he's super strategic so he can be extremely helpful as a civvie but extremely threatening as a baddie. I would definitely like to see him participate more in thread discussion and offer his input on a lot more topics. As an early prod I will place my vote on aapje for now.

[timmer]

Still 6 pages back. Gotta do some stuff, will get back to this soon.

[Scotty]

Ok, looking at the exchange between JJJ and Scotty I find myself agreeing more with Scotty and not really grokking JJJ's reasons for suspecting him. Most of what Scotty has posted, from what I see, strikes me as eminently reasonable. He brings up and in fact votes for aapje with quite good reasoning.
I never know what to think of aapje, but he is certainly very scary as a baddie. You make a good point about his contributions being mostly about game mechanics and staying out of player discussion. From my experience that is kind of his MO but to be fair he has been bad in a lot of games I've played with him. Regardless of his alignment he is always known as "the genius monkey who asks way too many zillions of host questions" and he's super strategic so he can be extremely helpful as a civvie but extremely threatening as a baddie. I would definitely like to see him participate more in thread discussion and offer his input on a lot more topics. As an early prod I will place my vote on aapje for now.

I would normally be concerned if aapje was already recruited by the civ leaders, because then I wouldn't vote for him. But his gameplay thus far isn't giving me qualms about that being the case yet.

[Golden]

So hypothetically speaking, Golden, let's say both you and Epig had wound up teammates and you both had knowledge of it. Do you still believe that he would have tried to lynch/kill you?

Not without my consent, epi is not that kind of player. If we were both bad, I think his plan could have been to continue pushing to kill me for the cred, but of course that kind of plan is one that aids us both in getting a win. But I don't think I would have been alive long enough for that to happen.

[Golden]

Registering a vote for golden

Because I just can't be bothered any more.

Golden, I get the fustration, hey I feel fustrated at some point in every game I have played, and fustration is relative to each player
but I can never understand what drives someone to vote for themself out of it
I prefer to be modkilled if Im not having fun, but votting for myself I dont recall ever done it

There are lots of things in play. If by the time I am heading off to get on a plane, and for whatever reason people have decided not to lynch me, I will switch my vote to someone I legitimately suspect. I made that vote so that people know I'm relaxed, but also because I cannot really fight back today anyway, so I could see myself going down and not being able to do anything about it.

Right now, I feel as though being lynched will take the monkey off my back. I want to be clear though, I'm still playing the game hard. If I get lynched, I will fight for a rez. I want in on this game. I just want to get all the current suspicion out of the way so that if I was to achieve a rezz, people would know when I came back that I wasn't bad.

People are beginning to see some of the suspicion on me for what it is - like llama realising how ludicrous DH's apparent scaredness is etc, which is good. My death would also aid people in taking a good hard look at those who have pushed my lynch so hard and examining whether their motivations are true.

[Canucklehead]

Registering a vote for golden

Because I just can't be bothered any more.

Golden, I get the fustration, hey I feel fustrated at some point in every game I have played, and fustration is relative to each player
but I can never understand what drives someone to vote for themself out of it
I prefer to be modkilled if Im not having fun, but votting for myself I dont recall ever done it

There are lots of things in play. If by the time I am heading off to get on a plane, and for whatever reason people have decided not to lynch me, I will switch my vote to someone I legitimately suspect. I made that vote so that people know I'm relaxed, but also because I cannot really fight back today anyway, so I could see myself going down and not being able to do anything about it.

Right now, I feel as though being lynched will take the monkey off my back. I want to be clear though, I'm still playing the game hard. If I get lynched, I will fight for a rez. I want in on this game. I just want to get all the current suspicion out of the way so that if I was to achieve a rezz, people would know when I came back that I wasn't bad.

People are beginning to see some of the suspicion on me for what it is - like llama realising how ludicrous DH's apparent scaredness is etc, which is good. My death would also aid people in taking a good hard look at those who have pushed my lynch so hard and examining whether their motivations are true.

Urrrrr.........how would we know that, exactly? On what planet, anywhere, ever, have people ever assumed that a rezzed person is necessarily "not bad"? And why would anyone reasonably assume as much in a game that is all about recruitment and shifting alignments?? Unless you're doing some sort of role claim here and hinting that you're a role that can't ever be recruited (is there even such a role, apart from the team leader? I have vague memories of a Legit Neutral dude, but I'd need to go reread the roles), and I don't think that you're really a role-hint type of guy..... so

I legit don't understand the claim you're trying to make here....

[Scotty]

Registering a vote for golden

Because I just can't be bothered any more.

Golden, I get the fustration, hey I feel fustrated at some point in every game I have played, and fustration is relative to each player
but I can never understand what drives someone to vote for themself out of it
I prefer to be modkilled if Im not having fun, but votting for myself I dont recall ever done it

There are lots of things in play. If by the time I am heading off to get on a plane, and for whatever reason people have decided not to lynch me, I will switch my vote to someone I legitimately suspect. I made that vote so that people know I'm relaxed, but also because I cannot really fight back today anyway, so I could see myself going down and not being able to do anything about it.

Right now, I feel as though being lynched will take the monkey off my back. I want to be clear though, I'm still playing the game hard. If I get lynched, I will fight for a rez. I want in on this game. I just want to get all the current suspicion out of the way so that if I was to achieve a rezz, people would know when I came back that I wasn't bad.

People are beginning to see some of the suspicion on me for what it is - like llama realising how ludicrous DH's apparent scaredness is etc, which is good. My death would also aid people in taking a good hard look at those who have pushed my lynch so hard and examining whether their motivations are true.

Urrrrr.........how would we know that, exactly? On what planet, anywhere, ever, have people ever assumed that a rezzed person is necessarily "not bad"? And why would anyone reasonably assume as much in a game that is all about recruitment and shifting alignments?? Unless you're doing some sort of role claim here and hinting that you're a role that can't ever be recruited (is there even such a role, apart from the team leader? I have vague memories of a Legit Neutral dude, but I'd need to go reread the roles), and I don't think that you're really a role-hint type of guy..... so

I legit don't understand the claim you're trying to make here....

I take it to mean: Lynch me, so you can see the role I have, and when you guys realize you shouldn't have lynched me, then I can be rezzed with confidence.

[Golden]

Thank you, Scotty. Saves me from getting into another semantics argument.

[Scotty]

But on the flip side, why would he be rez'd if his role was out in the open, even if he was civ/unrecruited? Wouldn't that just put the target right on his back for the baddies when he'd come back?

[nutella]

Yeah, I think the point Canuck is trying to make is that he could easily be recruited right after being rezzed.

[Canucklehead]

But why would there be any "confidence" around a rez? My assumption (and perhaps its a poor one) would be that whoever came back from the dead to so as an addition to the team of whoever rezzed them, so I would certainly not have any confidence that a rezzed Golden would necessarily be "not bad", regardless of what was revealed when he was lynched. I'm assuming a rez is a de facto recruitment.....

[Canucklehead]

Yeah, I think the point Canuck is trying to make is that he could easily be recruited right after being rezzed.

Close. I assume that a rezz would be a recruitment to whichever team the recruiter happened to be on..... doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense as a power, otherwise (like, if the res ends up on the baddie team, why would they ever use it, since it just adds another person to the pool of possible civ recruits?).... but I dunno. I could be wrong.

[Canucklehead]

Thank you, Scotty. Saves me from getting into another semantics argument.

It's not a semantics argument, Testy Tessa. I honestly do not understand the point you were trying to make. Don't be so fighty all the time, friend! We're not all out to get you.

[nutella]

I wouldn't assume that a rez automatically places a player on a team if the rezzer is on one (in fact I kind of doubt that is the case, but we could ask the hosts), just that he'd still be likely to get recruited very soon afterwards.

linki: idk I just think it would be overpowered and silly to have a rez be an automatic recruit, and I don't think that's how it's worked in the previous games? correct me if I'm wrong


also I just saw that MM voted for me and was the first person to vote but didn't seem to explain it. I'm guessing it was when he responded to that post I made about him but he should have stated his vote in the thread.

[nutella]

Yeah, I think the point Canuck is trying to make is that he could easily be recruited right after being rezzed.

Close. I assume that a rezz would be a recruitment to whichever team the recruiter happened to be on..... doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense as a power, otherwise (like, if the res ends up on the baddie team, why would they ever use it, since it just adds another person to the pool of possible civ recruits?).... but I dunno. I could be wrong.

Well clearly they'd use it for teammates who had died when they were already on the team? Makes sense to me An automatic recruit-via-rez would be ridiculous imo.

[nutella]

But your point basically still stands -- I don't doubt that a team could simultaneously or near-simultaneously use a rez and a recruitment separately on the same person.

[Canucklehead]

Yeah, I think the point Canuck is trying to make is that he could easily be recruited right after being rezzed.

Close. I assume that a rezz would be a recruitment to whichever team the recruiter happened to be on..... doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense as a power, otherwise (like, if the res ends up on the baddie team, why would they ever use it, since it just adds another person to the pool of possible civ recruits?).... but I dunno. I could be wrong.

Well clearly they'd use it for teammates who had died when they were already on the team? Makes sense to me An automatic recruit-via-rez would be ridiculous imo.

Ok. That was not my assumption. But what you say makes sense

(also, I think you forgot to use "pedantic pink" in that post...... or maybe patronizing purple was what you were looking for, or perhaps condescending coral?)

(Just jokes, of course... I ain't mad atcha, LA )

[nutella]

The Purple Woman is not patronizing Condescending, maybe

[Dom]

I don't understand your change in tone from Day 0 and wanting to find baddies to literally manipulating the thread to kill someone because you didn't want them going after you and you didn't think you'd be not he same team (with extremely flawed logic).

OK, and fair enough. I think I have gotten tangled in trying to explain what I mean by being neutral in the context of playing a game that I think is the same as my civvie-meta, and I can't complain if you feel I've been inconsistent.

As for the first mindset shift, I can say that I absolutely did have a mindset shift, from 'lets find baddies', to 'Gucking hell I can't believe this bullsuit'.



The mindset shift was not because I was suddenly recruited mid-day. In fact, I think that if you read back you will find that the mindset shift happened before anyone was recruited at all.

How do you know when the recruits happened? I would imagine they happened on Day 0.

[Bullzeye]

Wow, I've clearly missed quite a bit today. Catching up now.