Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[Boomslang]

Thanks for the rainbow list, JJJ, as it got me to take a closer look at Tranq. And I don't like what I see. There seem to be a couple places where he backpedaled from a course of action when he saw something else was becoming more popular. The first is when he asks LoRab to clarify a BWT suspicion:

EBWOP: Screwed up the ticking off who he had named. I think I started ticking off the ones he didn't name and then changed part way through. It is fixed below.

Do you think BWT intentially left people off his low-poster list because he either already has BTSC with them/plans to recruit them later? Is this why you voted for BWT?

Then stops asking questions and says:

I'm ok with a BWT vote.

The second is when he proposes asking the Brutal Executioner to kill JJJ, then says it was just a theory to spark discussion and doesn't post at all for the following day. These actions, combined with a basically unjustified vote on Sorsha, are why I am now *voting Tranq.*

[JaggedJimmyJay]

DH being serious about doing ISOs would be the most surprising development of this game so far.

Oh. Is this how he normally plays?

And people just accept it?

I have no idea; I am just assuming he isn't so inclined given his content in this game. Maybe I'm wrong. Go crazy, DH.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I should look closer at Tranq myself if I'm going to have the audacity to call him dark red evil-doer extraordinaire.

[DharmaHelper]

Holy shit am I in every color?

You're like Beetlejuice. You appear whenever someone mentions you.

Got any ISOs that you said you might be doing or did you scrap it?

Or reads on anyone?

Or any opinions? Like, does this shirt make me look fat?

I got nothin

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey DH, what color would you like to be?

[nutella]

nutella, thanks for the list! How much more strongly do you feel about DH and rey than those in the category above?

Not much. My views on lots of players are waffling tbh. I would say that DH and Rey are probably my strongest suspects though. And I'm becoming more interested in players like Tranq, Devin, and aapje who have been blendy/not contributing much/jumping on bandwagons.

I agree with you that Devin's and Tranq's votes for Sorsha are the pingiest and I generally do not like how quickly that bandwagon caught on. I'm glad JJJ shared an alternate perspective on her as I didn't really understand most of the points against her and have found it all very fishy. Part of me wonders if Bubbles has baddie teammates that tagged onto the Sorsha wagon, and part of me wonders if the Bubbles wagon is similarly manufactured (perhaps, going down the chain, as a reaction to Boomslang votes, though I suspect him less now).

@Dom: Fair enough, I just thought it was weird that you merely said "I need to think more" instead of a particular reaction to Golden's flip and the night-skip. I'm not trying to say that you haven't contributed, I'm just curious what more of your thoughts and reactions have been.

2.) I hope BR and LC do not take offense to this as I hope other players don't as well but do I really think BR would put Boomslang as a recruiter? No I don't. Even if they random'ed the roles I believe there was more than one or two tweaks. I do it in games I host.

That's bullshit and you know it. They randomized the roles. If that's the way you've done it you should feel bad, it's cliquey and disrespectful to assume that certain players can't handle certain roles. And you called ME cliquey. :\

[nutella]

Ugh probably won't be back before EOD and I'm pretty uncomfortable with the lynch being between Bubbles and Sorsha. My vote is staying on DH.

[Bullzeye]

2.) I hope BR and LC do not take offense to this as I hope other players don't as well but do I really think BR would put Boomslang as a recruiter? No I don't. Even if they random'ed the roles I believe there was more than one or two tweaks. I do it in games I host.

That's bullshit and you know it. They randomized the roles. If that's the way you've done it you should feel bad, it's cliquey and disrespectful to assume that certain players can't handle certain roles. And you called ME cliquey. :\

Have to agree with this. That's the cliqueyest (cliquiest? Made-up English is hard) thing I've read all game. Shall we lynch all the most popular people because they're most likely to have been 'tweaked' into recruiter roles then?

[DharmaHelper]

Hey DH, what color would you like to be?

Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen

[Principal Skinner]

Caution to everyone who's posted a rainbow in this game: I wouldn't play them like a slow-moving fluid. Any purple/blue ought to be able to become a red at the snap of a finger. Recruitment, man.

yea

[Scotty]

Caution to everyone who's posted a rainbow in this game: I wouldn't play them like a slow-moving fluid. Any purple/blue ought to be able to become a red at the snap of a finger. Recruitment, man.

yea

umm

[Dom]

2.) I hope BR and LC do not take offense to this as I hope other players don't as well but do I really think BR would put Boomslang as a recruiter? No I don't. Even if they random'ed the roles I believe there was more than one or two tweaks. I do it in games I host.

That's bullshit and you know it. They randomized the roles. If that's the way you've done it you should feel bad, it's cliquey and disrespectful to assume that certain players can't handle certain roles. And you called ME cliquey. :\

Have to agree with this. That's the cliqueyest (cliquiest? Made-up English is hard) thing I've read all game. Shall we lynch all the most popular people because they're most likely to have been 'tweaked' into recruiter roles then?

Rox is pretty popular, maybe we should lynch her.

nutella, do you still qualify DH's reaction to Scotty as a NO U?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Caution to everyone who's posted a rainbow in this game: I wouldn't play them like a slow-moving fluid. Any purple/blue ought to be able to become a red at the snap of a finger. Recruitment, man.

yea

You frighten me.

[Principal Skinner]

Caution to everyone who's posted a rainbow in this game: I wouldn't play them like a slow-moving fluid. Any purple/blue ought to be able to become a red at the snap of a finger. Recruitment, man.

yea

You frighten me.

good

[Principal Skinner]

or bad idk

[Principal Skinner]

who should I vote for?

[unfurl]

Hey Rox, I have a few more questions for you, whenever you get a chance.

1) You seemed intent to really baddie hunt going into this phase and I feel like you've been one of the players delivering on this promise, but I'm curious to know even more about what you're thinking. Who are your top 5 (or a similar number, if that's inconvenient) suspects for mafia recruiters/recruitees at this time and why?
2) What are your current thoughts on BWT? How heavily or slightly do you suspect him at this time and why?
3) What are your current thoughts on Boomslang? Have you stated any? If so, I apologize, but I cannot recall yours off hand.
I'd like to ask unfurl the same first three questions.

1)I dont think Im so hard in the baddie hunting, Im trying to figure out who is bad, but the word hard is a stretch
I already mentioned you MP and BWT in the list that I dont trust, aapje is somewhere as he said he does not like low posters but he has promised to start hunting baddies, so Im curious about him, i said i want to hear from reywas I said that already, not ready to make a judgement, and Sorsha, I explained below more about it, she does not seem to concern about getting votes too, dont know if it is because she is not around? or what?

2)hard to put a number, but see above I dont trust him, i suspected him because he was very quick to join you in the lets go after the low posters

3) boomslang, Im not familiar with him, I said it before was someone trying to save him by votting Golden? Im leaning he was more a scapegoat
(haha spacegoat , old times name, some may remember it!)

---

I think good points about Sorsha has been brought up, I think Sorsha may know who killed Epig, and she did knew it was not Golden, I think that could had been slip up with the framed part
As a matter of fact Im votting for Sorsha

Wilgy's eyes widen with horror. His heart begins to ache and his chest tightens. He finds it hard to say, but can finally let out a soft voice as he turns to face everyone.
Unfurl... How did you come to the conclusion... That Sorsha "did knew" that Golden didn't kill Epi? Sorsha even said she wasn't confident in Golden...

Sorsha was very intersting in the whole who frame Golden and wanted to hear who set him up, from others, not from her mouth
like she ask the questions but does not give her opinion, so maybe wanting to see who will jump on that first
Is a theory, not a conclusion

I see that golden is heading out and might not be back much but I have a question or two. Anyone else can weigh in on the answer as well. I have been away from mafia for a while and don't know/can't remember all the player dynamics.

First of all I'm of the mind that golden is not on the team that killed epi night one. I know golden still claims responsibility like that team is going to do his bidding for him but I'd think their motive was more to frame him. Anyone in particular come to mind as one who would do that?

My thoughts on the matter is whoever is really hounding golden in the thread did it. But is it a silly question to ask who would set golden up?

[Scotty]

who should I vote for?

Are you bad or good? Let me know and I'll tell you who to vote for.

[Principal Skinner]

who should I vote for?

Are you bad or good? Let me know and I'll tell you who to vote for.

idk man

[Marmot]

Vote registered for Master of Shadows

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tranq stuff.

Spoiler: show

I like JaggedJimmyJay's idea. I don't think it'll help with the Day 1 lynch, but i've enjoyed reading the responses.
My three recruits would be aapje, Typhoony and SVS. Regardless of alignment.

Poor unfurl. It always sucks to get the 1st vote on the 1st Day I agree with Golden and Roxy - I saw nothing un-unfurly (furly..?) in her interactions with MP.

I don't mind going with a low poster if there are no other solid leads.

Also, this post has been written using default-#E6E6E6. I encourage everyone to try it out

Did one of the baddie recruiters decide to pull major WIFOM by listing three people he might recruit in that position? I don't necessarily think this precludes Tranq from being a recruiter, but it'd be a bold maneuver.

Spoiler: show

Day 0 recruits usually are the only recruits leaders get to hand-pick, and only one of them gets recruited. There'd be no point in selecting 1 player you're familiar with, 1 you haven't played with before, and 1 you have an ongoing rivalry with, for example.

So to answer JaggedJimmyJay specifically: these are three players i've played before with, i know they have the skill and experience, and i know we usually have fun together. Although i wouldn't call aapje likable

linki no u

I prodded Tranq to explain his response, this was the result. It's a double WIFOMpounder with cheese, do with it what you please. I'm gonna slap a null tag on it and be on my way.

Spoiler: show

This is why we need a linkback function:


I almost gave up on reading through the Golden-Epignosis posts. I'm glad it finally got to the point where Epignosis very clearly stated why he suspected Golden, and highlighted the quote. You should do that more often
That said, while i don't agree with the suspicion, Golden going with a "lynch me" attitude isn't helping anyone. Golden, you've mentioned doing this in King Arthur before. While you got yourself lynched, i don't remember it ended up being a smart move. I suggest you snap out of it

As for the LMS debate, i really disagree with Spacedaisy's post. Especially the first couple of Days you're going to find players with this sort of mindset, yet people keep getting lynched because of it (i think myself in RM1 or RM2, and as Typhoony pointed out Timmer in RM3). It's a fun way to play early in the game. I'm not voting for someone that's clearly enjoying and embracing a different setup.

@ G-Man:

This is a unique and strangely prophetic take on Golden from Day 1. I have no idea what happened in the King Arthur game, but I know other comparisons were drawn to it later. Tranq seemed to recognize very quickly the parallel. To be fair, if the trigger was Golden being frustrated and calling for his own lynch (did this actually happen this early?), then I can understand it. I would have probably remembered it too and brought it up in Tranq's shoes.

Spoiler: show

EBWOP: Screwed up the ticking off who he had named. I think I started ticking off the ones he didn't name and then changed part way through. It is fixed below.

Do you think BWT intentially left people off his low-poster list because he either already has BTSC with them/plans to recruit them later? Is this why you voted for BWT?

I'm ok with a BWT vote.

This an underwhelming progression. These are his only posts about BWT up to the vote. I'm not a fan of the way he shoved a reason in LoRab's face in the form of questions.

Is this why he's suspicious? IS IT? Is this why I should place my vote on him in my next post? Tell me!

Spoiler: show

Can any of the players that defended unfurl's behavior by saying it is like unfurl please explain to me what in her behavior makes you believe this? What adjectives would you use to describe her play in general that you see here, that make you unable to distinguish her alignment, and not persuaded by any of the points I was making?

MP, i just went through your posts that mention unfurl, and through her posts aswell.

Basically, this is the reason you voted for her, right?

At this moment, the players that I'm eyeballing the most are:

unfurl, for 13 posts that contribute practically nothing (no offense intended) to the hunt or game mechanics discussion, and for an attitude that seems very cheeky, sarcastic, and nonchalant. It's possible that she is a recruiter or recruited that isn't willing to open up the low poster discussion for the reasons I mentioned, although it seems clear that she has no intention to open up any avenue of discussion. Even if she isn't recruited or recruiter of a nefarious nature, that is a dangerous mindset, and considering 28 of us are neutral, she may receive my vote purely for that unwillingness.

I don't see anything wrong with her having the attitude you described Day 1 in a Recruitment game. Especially her post here is one i agree with. I don't read her as having 0 intention in discussing anything (i think she has posted quite a bit since your interactions), i read it as wanting to play the game in her own way. I'm sure as the game progresses she'll have more original posts and thoughts.
So as for your suspicions and her posts so far, i don't think it points to unfurl being a Recruiter or having been recruited.

What do you make of DrWilgy wanting to be friends with unfurl?

This is kind of a nice post in which Tranq investigates unfurl and MP at the same time -- by prodding MP with questions about his suspicion of unfurl. I like Tranq's approach to game-solving here and it's probably his best post for me.

Comments about the no lynch

This is a decent effort to sort through the no lynch and find a cause. I think players of all alignments save for the perpetrator would have a motive here. If we suppose that the lynch stop was baddie-motivated that'd be a nice look. I don't know if I feel that way, but I also admit the role dynamics confuse me endlessly. On RYM we like vanillas.

Spoiler: show

Uh i got drunk and fell asleep... Why did DP, Scotty and timmer vote for themselves?

I'm voting for one of these three players.

I remember agreeing with some of timmer's posts so he won't get my vote. A quick look through their posts shows Scotty has been trying to play while DP has not.

*votes DisgruntledPorcupine*

I think we all have some reservations about DP, but he's also about the easiest vote any player could place in this game. There was enough happening through Day 2 that I'd have preferred something less painless.

Spoiler: show

Let's discuss the following theory:

You could have posted to try to detach from seeming like the person who stopped day. You also might not have nkown that the hosts would announce when day was stopped. I'm not ready to vote for you for this, but it does raise an eyebrow.

So you're inclined to believe that the person who ended the day early was not aligned with Team Good Guys, or still among the neutral pile?

I think you could select a large number of posts from about the same area of the thread and find a "could have been..." description for them that suits your theory in a similar fashion. You're already reaching quite a bit -- not only to peg this role on me, but beyond that to assert it'd even warrant a vote if you were right.

I noticed something and brought it up, partly to see your reaction, partly because I thought it worthy of bringing up. Yours was the only vote within a time frame close to the vote end time that talked about people being sure to vote. It stood out to me. I pointed it out. It's what I do.

I do not the the person who ended day early is civ aligned, for sure. I think they may have been bad alligned--but they may be neutral. But their action does not feel neutral. So I feel it is worth discussing.

And I don't think I said I was going to vote for you, just that I suspected you and had/have an eye on you. Your reaction to that seems a bit over the top, tbh, and didn't make me feel better. But still just keeping an for the time being.

Supreme Judge is a Child of Serenity. Brutal Executioner kills a Child of Serenity tonight. This theory can be tested by asking Brutal Executioner to target JaggedJimmyJay.

Thoughts?

Tranq, do you find me suspicious or are you tagging along for an opportunity to maybe kill a vocal contributor?

Can't say i have a strong opinion on you one way or the other, although i've enjoyed reading your posts. I'm more interested in seeing discussion on the theory. I know there are several pros and cons.

If it didn't involve you, what would your thoughts on the matter be?

"I don't have a strong opinion on you and have enjoyed reading your posts, but maybe we should try to kill you JJJ."

Spoiler: show

Meh. I'm 20-ish pages behind... and i should probably vote within the next hour or risk missing the deadline.

Who should i vote for?

I can believe it's difficult to fall behind in this game. I am not a fan of "Who should I vote for?", but I also grant that it's pretty brash behavior for a theoretical baddie. Eh.

Spoiler: show

My RGB list:

Sorsha
TinyBubbles
Boomslang

Red being the case i find the most interesting, green being the case i felt 'meh' about, and blue being the case that didn't really feel like a case. Why is Boomslang considered a main suspect, exactly?

*votes Sorsha*

Stances on cases are neat, but I'd like to know why they exist. Please share on all three.

~~~

Tranq has fallen off sharply in recent phases. Maybe he's been busy and hasn't been able to keep up the torrent pace, maybe it's something else. Or both. It's hard to have a lot of conviction about a post history like this one because there just isn't much there. He's a valid enough suspect merely for being both recruiter-compatible and recruitee-compatible by my measure. His content doesn't suggest to me that he's been recruited by a civilian team. Neutrality is possible too.

[Ricochet]

Time is growing important, since we are already within the interval in which the Judge can lockdown this place - he's been vigilent before, but so far he's not quick to draw the curtains; can this mean he's not content or approving with the main wagons and/or doesn't want to shortcircuit the EoD? Could be.

Between Sorsha and Bubbles, I felt the latter was more suspicious already from surveying the Golden case; in other words, as a main wagon today she also aligns better with my own suspicions. Her stances are all over the place and flippy galore. Sure, in thinking if this would make her bad, you could admit she has regular problems keeping up and sounding decisive. But there's something in her D3 activity that makes it sound different to me.

But first, a very quick rundown of her stances.

D1 - Golden seems genuine
D2 - I want to vote TH, but it would go to waste, so I'll focus on main wagons: what's the case on Bass? Golden doesn't seem like his normal self. what's the case on Bass? what's the case on Bass?
Golden seems to attract enmity because of his past games and simply get lynched early to take him away; I don't like this, but I have nothing on bass, so I might still vote Golden, because I want to stay within the wagon. what's the case on Bass?
voting Golden, don't want to vote bass and Golden doesn't seem to be his (civ) self
D3 - oh no, not Golden again! Don't want to vote him this time. "It feels like rejecting a friend". [keeps insisting on Golden posting a lot being the issue, which is so far from the reality]. voting rey to pursue golden's testimony

The impression her D3 stance/switch gives me is that of steering away from this lynch train, self-aware or not that her D2 vote was pure bandwagoning, either mirroring some other statements (Golden doesn't seem himself - translating into either a soft parrotting of SVS or the regular "I'm not seeing player X's civ play"), either reading the debate all superficial or plain wrong. How can she feel on D3 that she'd be 'rejecting a friend", if she just voted for him the previous day for, to paraphrase, not seeming the friend she knows as a civ? I also remember Golden clearly calling Bubbles shady out of all his voters (alongside rey), which further makes me feel her response is a backpedal to save appearances.

Sorsha's stances towards Golden, meanwhile, are the following:

D1 - I don't believe Golden, as a recruiter, would openly ask for advice or feign interest in such angles
D2 - If Golden baited a mafia team to dispose of Epi, why would the mafia take the bait in the first place instead of letting the spat go on? is it for painting Golden? is it for the WIFOM?
D3 - I don't think Golden is part of the team that killed Epi; I think that team meant to frame him; I believe some of them are also hounding him in the open

I'm reading most of this conventional, except for maybe her "why would mafia take the bait" part. It could be tin foiled, perhaps, as taking considerable distance from Golden's lynch, whilst throwing in conventional thinking as smokescreen (it's a frame up, we should look at those who hound him instead of elsewhere). I see Scotty brought up a much more damning angle than that. I'd label both angles, however, as a bit of a stretchy WIFOM at this point.

The suspicions I'm getting about her is that: 1) she didn't do anything to save Golden*; 2) she focused on mechanics that could have caused Epig's death or might frame Golden and such awareness could only stem from slipping as a baddie or as a player who caused a manipulation 3) she could be weaving WIFOM by addressing the mafia's (on killing Epig) and hunter's (on lynching Golden) actions head on. The first two, I think, belong to Wilgy, the latter was analysed by Scotty. These are good interpretations**, but I don't quite get the same vibe that she'd tangle herself as painting the painters or something of the sort.

*side-note to this: does Wilgy have any opinion on other players who also failed to save Golden (such as MP) or is Sorsha the only player you noticed?
**side-note to this: Scotty, you bring up Sorsha defending Golden in your ISO and I'm not sure if you mean to say you find it fake/forced defending, for appearances, or think she's bad for having defended Golden. Because, if the latter, how can you retroactively call a player bad for "defending" an unrecruited neutral lynchee? "Defending" is rather more used to suspect someone of defending confirmed baddies.

So I don't think either come clean out of such a scan, in fact they're quite interesting opposites. Bubbles is almost on the threshold of real sloppiness (bandwagoning, flip-flopping), whilst Sorsha proving to be bad for the reasons brought up would be closer to finesse (distancing, debating baddie motivations in everyone's face, invoking mechanics). It seems more tempting to verify a "what if" on Sorsha, but my feel is that the backpedal is clearer in Bubbles' case.

These are not the only players I intend to analyse from Golden's walkthrough, but given that I'm doubtful I'll manage to go through everyone until EoD and that a lockdown might happen at any time (although, again, the Judge seems cautious so far), casting my vote for Bubbles for now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

who should I vote for?

Tell me what you look for in a candidate and I'll give you some ideas about which platform suits you best.

[Ricochet]

Vote registered for Master of Shadows

yeah but which one from the poll is he? :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Time is growing important, since we are already within the interval in which the Judge can lockdown this place - he's been vigilent before, but so far he's not quick to draw the curtains; can this mean he's not content or approving with the main wagons and/or doesn't want to shortcircuit the EoD? Could be.

Moved my vote to TinyBubbles with this in mind. Good call.

[Marmot]

Vote registered for Master of Shadows

yeah but which one from the poll is he? :P

Idk, k.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Vote registered for Master of Shadows

What is your perspective of the game right now? Any aspect of it?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sorsha, who among your detractors today do you feel has treated you the most unfairly, or otherwise been the most suspicious for their treatment of you?

[Marmot]

Vote registered for Master of Shadows

What is your perspective of the game right now? Any aspect of it?

I'll have more to say (perhaps) in like 10 pages.

I know that Golden was lynched, but I don't know why. I noticed that Boomslang gave him a run for his money, but that interest has died. To put it simply, I don't really have a motive, so it's hard to keep up with all the action effectively. With the amount of posting happening, there are certainly things happening (I think).

I don't really care who gets lynched as long as it's not me.

[Marmot]

By 10 pages, I meant the 10 pages of content I haven't read yet, not 10 more pages from now. :P

[S~V~S]

Sorsha, who among your detractors today do you feel has treated you the most unfairly, or otherwise been the most suspicious for their treatment of you?

Did you ask Bass this question? I don't recall.

I am surprised to find Tiny Bubbles such a menace.

I am voting for Sorsha. I think her disingenuous act was just that, an act.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sorsha, who among your detractors today do you feel has treated you the most unfairly, or otherwise been the most suspicious for their treatment of you?

Did you ask Bass this question? I don't recall.

I don't recall either. Lemme check.

I am surprised to find Tiny Bubbles such a menace.

What does this mean?

I am voting for Sorsha. I think her disingenuous act was just that, an act.

Could you please reference the disingenuous act you're referring to?

[Bullzeye]

As to Boomslang, Jay... Can you see his exchange from you coming from a neutral perspective?

Maybe. I can see players of any alignment responding incredulously to a logical breakdown like the one I employed. I've mulled over it for a night and at this point the most troubling Boomslang post in that exchange is the one Bullzeye highlighted:

I disagree. Now what you need to ask yourself is this: am I bad, or just stupid?

This statement is included somewhere in the Encyclopedia Baddietannica, at least in my experience.

JJJ, can you elaborate what exactly it is you find troubling about this post? What's the baddie mindset? I'm trying to understand it and am just not sure I'm seeing the mindset of a baddie in that post.

As the person who highlighted Boom's post, allow me to also chip in. It's such a bad thing to say IMO because I always ask people if they think I'm stupid when I have literally nothing else to defend myself with and 9 times out of 10 I'm bad and defending a stupid mistake I made. It's not something I associate with a civ mentality.

Can we talk about Devin? He keeps bandwagoning and no one is calling him out for it. He's ever increasingly falling down my list every time I see a post from him.

I intend to look at a bunch of people in a sec, I can add him to the list.

2.) I hope BR and LC do not take offense to this as I hope other players don't as well but do I really think BR would put Boomslang as a recruiter? No I don't. Even if they random'ed the roles I believe there was more than one or two tweaks. I do it in games I host.

Have already mentioned my issues with this point but I will also say I'm interested in how you will defend it. You've literally gone from accusing people of cliquey exclusionary behaviour to making a very cliquey post yourself. Dom's sarcasm had a decent point, if you want to argue that there are certain players more likely to have been given recruiter roles, you're definitely in that category.

Let's talk about some other players, shall we?

How about Devin, Tranq, aapje, and unfurl?

Devin, Tranq, unfurl, and BWT just jumped onto Sorsha. What do players think of their vote explanations? I'll take a look at them myself and let you all know.

aapje seems content to continue waiting on his baddie hunt, even though it's Day 4 and each team is clearly cemented now, and focus entirely on low posters. I can entirely relate with why he's fixating on them, but does anyone else find this disconcerting?

Aapje's single-mindedness in his pursuit of the lowest posters is concerning to me. I'll happily lynch a low poster on day one to let active people stay on, and will even extend that willingness through to day two in a really quiet game. But on day 4 of a ridiculously talkative game? Like a third of the players have had their names thrown out at some point already. Focusing on low posters purely because they're low posters seems off to me. Is aapje usually like that? I don't think I've played with him since some of my very first games.

3) boomslang, Im not familiar with him, I said it before was someone trying to save him by votting Golden? Im leaning he was more a scapegoat
(haha spacegoat , old times name, some may remember it!)

Why would you think the Golden lynch was a Boomslang save? Golden was being discussed literally all game, his number was bound to come up eventually with the way things were going for him. It's not like it was suddenly pushed out of nowhere.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sorsha, who among your detractors today do you feel has treated you the most unfairly, or otherwise been the most suspicious for their treatment of you?

Did you ask Bass this question? I don't recall.

I don't recall either. Lemme check.

It appears not. Why?

[Sorsha]

Voted for bubbles.

linki to jjj: Scotty, wilgy, tranq, unfurl

[S~V~S]

Sorsha, who among your detractors today do you feel has treated you the most unfairly, or otherwise been the most suspicious for their treatment of you?

Did you ask Bass this question? I don't recall.

I don't recall either. Lemme check.

I am surprised to find Tiny Bubbles such a menace.

What does this mean?

I am voting for Sorsha. I think her disingenuous act was just that, an act.

Could you please reference the disingenuous act you're referring to?

"Act" like an actress. I think she was acting.

Linki, becasue the way you treat people under suspicion is radically different IMO. You gave Bass the Bridge Scene from Monty Python, and you are giving Sorsha a platform question. You ask a lot of questions, but they are not terribly balanced, I think.

[Sorsha]

Voted for bubbles.

linki to jjj: Scotty, wilgy, tranq, unfurl

I'll add Devin to this too.

Some of these players for just jumping on the bandwagon. And Scotty for the case being skewed in the negative. Wilgy is kinda iffy for the list, I'm not sure of his intentions. Up until he started questioning me it didn't seem like he was taking anything too seriously, so his change in tone today is what causes me some concern.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Linki, becasue the way you treat people under suspicion is radically different IMO. You gave Bass the Bridge Scene from Monty Python, and you are giving Sorsha a platform question. You ask a lot of questions, but they are not terribly balanced, I think.

I suspected Bass and voted for him. I just made a very large post in defense of Sorsha.

I may not be perfectly balanced in my treatment of people, I don't know. That'd be a lot to expect honestly. But I do know that my treatment of people is likely to vary according to my perception of them.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"Act" like an actress. I think she was acting.

I'm still not sure what you're referring to. Was she acting in a specific post, or in her entire post history?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Voted for bubbles.

linki to jjj: Scotty, wilgy, tranq, unfurl

I'll add Devin to this too.

Some of these players for just jumping on the bandwagon. And Scotty for the case being skewed in the negative. Wilgy is kinda iffy for the list, I'm not sure of his intentions. Up until he started questioning me it didn't seem like he was taking anything too seriously, so his change in tone today is what causes me some concern.

That's five names out of seven. You only feel two of them have been genuine?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

EBWOP, DrWilgy hasn't voted for you actually, so I guess four out of seven.

[Sorsha]

Voted for bubbles.

linki to jjj: Scotty, wilgy, tranq, unfurl

I'll add Devin to this too.

Some of these players for just jumping on the bandwagon. And Scotty for the case being skewed in the negative. Wilgy is kinda iffy for the list, I'm not sure of his intentions. Up until he started questioning me it didn't seem like he was taking anything too seriously, so his change in tone today is what causes me some concern.

That's five names out of seven. You only feel two of them have been genuine?

I'm not sure about Scotty even. He made the case and convinced himself even if he's wrong and eulogy hasn't actually voted for me yet but I won't be surprised if he does. Id say tranq unfurl and Devin are the least genuine/ just jumping on a bandwagon.

[S~V~S]

"Act" like an actress. I think she was acting.

I'm still not sure what you're referring to. Was she acting in a specific post, or in her entire post history?

Did you read my post frome earlier today, where I explained to Bea my thoughts on Sorsha? This one:

Bea, I am not sure what you want me to say. I was wrong, very hideously wrong. I read back and caught up last night, but there was not much more that I could say than what I did say

Thanks for your take on Sorsha; my experience is that Sorsha is direct, and not not flinch back from speaking her mind. And in the two posts that caught my eye, the one before and the other after Goldens lynch, she was pretty clearly pointing to me, IMO, but she was strangely reluctant to say so.

Before:

My thoughts on the matter is whoever is really hounding golden in the thread did it. But is it a silly question to ask who would set golden up?

I'm upto date and I'm not voting for Golden. Sorsha, what has you thinking someone hounding him is framing him?

If it is one of the players hounding him, who are they? DH, SVS and rey?

Well my thought was that they killed epi to frame golden to set up a golden lynch the next day, once that didn't happen they have had to step up their accusations against him to get the lynch train going to golden.

I don't agree with the conclusions svs has come to on golden. I have to re read dh and Rey a bit. I was just throwing it out there to see what others are thinking on it.

I should add that I'm not 100% caught up... It's just too much to read so I'm sorry if this stuff was covered already.

The nice soft defending, the, "Hrm who COULD it be?" I actually picture her posing just like the "ponder" smiley.

After:

Wilgy clads himself in armor. The sun shines off his helmet blinding the crowd as he grabs his sword and shield. A cloud covers the sun and the reflection dissipates. The crowd can now see that Wilgy's sword and shield are both Golden*

Bring it on. Sorsha, I've had abit to drink tonight. Why don't you join me and tell me who framed Roger Rabit (Golden)?

Vote registered for Sorsha

Thats a good question Wilgy.. was it a frame or was it the result of a redirect (Ahriman), target switch (Master of Ancient Arts), switching three roles powers (Chaos Dancer) or a repel of kill to the Magnetarch?

Looks like Scotty has made a nice post about who may have framed Golden.

Do you think Golden was framed Wigly? And why did you vote for me? Also, what are your thoughts on the day ending early and no night?

Gee, the post of Scotty's that she refers to has my name at the top in giant letters. It feels like she is trying to lead horses to water here. She seems to want people to reach this conclusion on their own as opposed to making a case and taking responsibility. Had she just come right out and said it, I would have felt a lot better about her, tbh. Sorsha & I may have had our moments over the years, but one thing I will always say about her is that when she thinks she is in the right (not right as in "correct" but "in the right" as in righteous sense) Sorsha flatly refuses to pull punches.

Punches are being pulled all over the place in these two posts, punches just flying everywhere, except directly at me. So I will take your take on it into consideration. Plus not sure how much of this is defensiveness on my part, although as I said, when she made that first post while Golden was still alive, it went through my mind that the next frame up was on the backburner, and it was me.

I am going to reread a few specific people today; and then discuss my thoughts on them. After the Golden thing, I am feeling kinda tender about having an opinion about anything and am in second guess central. But a few people have gotten my attention, so a reread is in order. As for lists, i won't do them. Especially in a game with a lot of factions, as this one is. I have a fairly good example of my reasons in MPs big rainbow post. My first reaction to that was not a warm, fuzzy, "Aw MP thinks I am not a baddie for once!". It was "OMFG, why is MP drawing a huge target on my back??"

Anyone who played back in the day on LP/TP/RM will get that right away. Times they are a changin', but in a game with more than one bad group, they ain't a changin' that much.

I think that summed it up. I assumed you had read it.

[Sorsha]

Voted for bubbles.

linki to jjj: Scotty, wilgy, tranq, unfurl

I'll add Devin to this too.

Some of these players for just jumping on the bandwagon. And Scotty for the case being skewed in the negative. Wilgy is kinda iffy for the list, I'm not sure of his intentions. Up until he started questioning me it didn't seem like he was taking anything too seriously, so his change in tone today is what causes me some concern.

That's five names out of seven. You only feel two of them have been genuine?

I'm not sure about Scotty even. He made the case and convinced himself even if he's wrong and wilgy hasn't actually voted for me yet but I won't be surprised if he does. Id say tranq unfurl and Devin are the least genuine/ just jumping on a bandwagon.

fixed-ish

[Bullzeye]

How do others feel about Unfurl's suggestion that Golden's lynch was an attempt to save Boom? Am I the only one who finds that crazy?

[Sorsha]

SVS- if I suspected you I wouldn't dance around naming you. You used to be really good at reading me but your not here....

[Ricochet]

I'll proceeed further with a few more suspects from the Golden file that I can write about in a quick (enough) manner

not getting great vibes from Timmer overall. when he can't keep up, he gives me more the Deborah vibe than the "I really shouldn't be playing this and am unworthy" self-voting vibe (this is not to say I don't understand his RL reasons). he switches that often into a more insightful mode, which is closer to the active good stuff I know/expect from timmer, but still feels like switching gears quite a lot.

D1 - very late pitch in the Golden vs Epig spat, calls Golden phoney in his initial chatter about recruiting tactics
- then a postin which he thinks Golden is fake playing a civ game as a neutral, yet also doesn't regard him as a lynch target. I find this alterning of stances most confusing.
D2 - misses out
D3 - isn't as strong on Golden as when he called him phoney on D1, kinda puts him and MP in the same slot and labels Golden as unwanting to admit his actions have been weird; does a "THIS" on some thoughts on rey, then switches to make a six-point or so insight on the situation - again the kind of gear-switchin' that bothers me a bit

So from the rather consistent Golden voters, his own reasoning never reads strong or flexible (as in reviewing in depth his case) enough. Could be an unfortunate surf on a mislynch, but could be a bad surf just as well.

Devin is a lot simpler to process. His vote for Golden was turd. Because he's the main attention? Because he asked for a pass from undecided players? He even quoted Boomslang's own shady vote for Golden "asking to be lynched" and I have no idea what that quoting was supposed to mean. All his "reasons" are quotes by others. Bandwagoning with style, at least; like diving from a plane to land on a wagon. Besides, I don't remember anything significant from him, apart from being vocal about BWT being bad.

[Bullzeye]

Wait she also said he was probably a scapegoat, sorry don't know how I missed that. Less crazy now.

[Sorsha]

You're*

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think that summed it up. I assumed you had read it.

I had, I just didn't realize you were referencing that as "acting", sorry.

You do have the advantage of metagaming in your read of Sorsha; I do not. So I grant that I cannot really know whether her performance so far in this game is in line with what is typical of her as a civilian. When I assessed her purely at face value though I didn't struggle to find a neutral/civilian mindset in most of her content.