Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[S~V~S]

It is Day Six, you don't have one opinion other than that I am picking on you. With like 10x the posts of DP. I seem to recall DP having an opinion.

Sorry if you feel persecuted, but not ONE opinion?

[Bullzeye]

It is Day Six, you don't have one opinion other than that I am picking on you. With like 10x the posts of DP. I seem to recall DP having an opinion.

Sorry if you feel persecuted, but not ONE opinion?

I have opinions. They're based on where I was when I was last actually able to participate - which is days ago. Looking at the player lists I'm aware some have been replaced but don't even know who or when. You are seriously overestimating how involved I am in this game.

[Bullzeye]

As for feeling persecuted: I don't. I just think it's ridiculous that you're hounding me over absolutely nothing.

[S~V~S]

Exactly; absolutely nothing.

[Bullzeye]

And being too busy to participate makes me more likely to be bad than, say, anyone possibly connected to Bubbles?

[S~V~S]

But you haven't been too busy to participate. You have lots of posts. That was my point. You post alot, you are participating.

[aapje]

So JJJ has cast at least 3 votes (JJJ, Bullzeye, BWT) now without making a post. I guess he is silenced?
The Druid got to silence someone last night so I guess that makes sense. It would be nice if he stopped messing with my spreadsheet though :P

[Bullzeye]

There are about 14 people I want to look at. That's not to say I'll suspect all of them or even have anything to say about some of them, but there are a handful of people I either think are civ or think have probably not been recruited yet and the rest are question marks. It's 1am though so I don't know how much reading I'll do tonight. Or does that also make me bad anyway?

[thellama73]

Or does that also make me bad anyway?

The only thing that makes you bad is the role you were given or the team you were recruited onto.

[Turnip Head]

But you haven't been too busy to participate. You have lots of posts. That was my point. You post alot, you are participating.

And I'd be okay with this in theory, because it could indicate that Bullzeye is simply an unmotivated neutral. But he seems to be resisting the point you're making and getting defensive over it.

[Bullzeye]

But you haven't been too busy to participate. You have lots of posts. That was my point. You post alot, you are participating.

And I'd be okay with this in theory, because it could indicate that Bullzeye is simply an unmotivated neutral. But he seems to be resisting the point you're making and getting defensive over it.

She's not indicating that I'm neutral though. I'm 'resisting' because the one day I can finally get into the game, SVS decides I'm bad for having been unable to properly involve myself. Have you met me? I always get defensive.

[Black Rock]

Public Announcement

Ricochet has been rezzed. He can't be lynched today or targeted tonight.

[DrWilgy]

I'll respond within the quote this time!

I've been trying to figure out the switch to unfurl.

- Ubzargan wanted to get rid of unfurl
- Ubzargan wanted to get rid of unfurl's role: the Technohacker

The Technohacker is not a very dangerous role. Except for maybe one position:
Position 4: Knows how many non-voters are evilly-aligned in the previous lynch

The only thing i can come up with is maybe Ubzargan knew unfurl's role, knew atleast 1 teammate would certainly miss the vote, anticipated Position 4 would be picked next as that was the only one that hadn't been used yet, and decided to switch the lynch to her for that reason. The players that missed the Bubbles-unfurl lynch-switch-vote are Bass2.0, reywaS, Roxy and TH.



I'm putting a vote on DrWilgy for now. A couple of things have been bothering me.

- Early in the game he had that odd hate/love relationship with unfurl. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why the lynch got switched to her. So he could make that "Will you help me avenge Unfurl?" post while also bringing up the "it makes no sense for Bubbles to kill unfurl" argument.
Love hate relationship? You obviously Haven't been reading my greentext...that is also unrelated to the game on most levels. One thing that is true though, is that MM and Unfurl were and are my friends. MM and I recently played a game together and I enjoyed his style. I accused Unfurl early based upon philosophy and regretted it, so I wanted to be a good friend and make it up to her. Also, it making no sense for Bubbles to kill Unfurl is still a relevant and logical argument that was unrelated to me wanting to avenge her.

- His wanting to lynch Timmer who i think has been playing his typical neutral self.
- The post he made discussing Timmer here:

Still being obsessed with teams is my trigger, hopping on the TinyBubbles boat so quickly without providing anything that hasn't been said already is also my trigger (especially since I'm pretty sure TinyBubbles is neutral).

This reads like timmer's neutral play to me. What's wrong with being obsessed with teams?

Again, what's wrong with being obsessed with teams? Well, a player already on a team wouldn't be obsessed with that anymore.
Yes, but I didn't know timmer before this. I read through (skimmed at least) RM3 and changed my vote. It was a difference of ideals, and from how I've been posting and from who I've accused of being bad, you should be able to tell those ideals of mine affect my gameplay. In regards to team obsession, I believe there's a difference between intrest and obsession. Obsession (which I commonly relate to baddie behavior) seems forced and normally doesn't lead anywhere, while intrest is genuine and promotes discussion.

- The poison post 2 posts 4 posts above this one. More wifom
Ok... I'm going to admit something here because I've been trying to use context to figure it out... What does WIFOM mean? And what's wrong with trying to wake up a dead thread?

- Night 4, after Bubbles' switch:

Don't vote for position 1 or 3. We don't want to give lynch immunity tomorrow.

Night 5, after Bubbles' death: I'm pretty sure i saw him voting position 1 but i cannot confirm without the screencap. Why the change of heart? Ubzargan would want position 1 today, especially if he got heavily involved in the Bubbles stuff. If i misremembered, ignore this last point
Ignoring

I hope I've addressed all concerns.

[LoRab]

w/b Rico. Do you know who rezzed you and why?

Putting a vote on TH for now. Because I still suspect him (no, I haven't forgotten about that position, nor do I think he's unrecruited neutral). And because I want to have a vote on the board so I can see the results.

I may move my vote at some point. I think SVS has good points about bullz.

[Turnip Head]

SVS decides I'm bad for having been unable to properly involve myself.

You're kind of spinning her words here to make yourself a victim. I doubt SVS thinks you're bad because you've been busy, as you've stated here, even if that's what it boils down to in your mind.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you had said "I'm still neutral, so I have no reason to properly involve myself while I have RL priorities", that would be an adequate enough defense for me. But that's not where you went with it. You're attacking her position and twisting her meaning. Makes me think you're on a team. I'm just not sure which one.

[Bullzeye]

SVS decides I'm bad for having been unable to properly involve myself.

You're kind of spinning her words here to make yourself a victim. I doubt SVS thinks you're bad because you've been busy, as you've stated here, even if that's what it boils down to in your mind.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you had said "I'm still neutral, so I have no reason to properly involve myself while I have RL priorities", that would be an adequate enough defense for me. But that's not where you went with it. You're attacking her position and twisting her meaning. Makes me think you're on a team. I'm just not sure which one.

That is literally what it boils down to. There's no way around it, no other explanation. She is saying I'm bad because I haven't contributed while completely and deliberately ignoring the very obvious reason why I haven't been able to properly contribute because it doesn't fit her narrative. I have a high(ish) post count because I've tried to stay involved, with varying degrees of success as time got on. Next time I'm too busy perhaps I just won't bother and then people can criticise me for not posting at all instead.

I couldn't think of how to say "Since I'm neutral I didn't care too much" without feeling like I was being disrespectful to the hosts so I've sort of danced around it but it is what it is. As far as defensiveness goes, this is a game I really did and still really do want to play but as I've said the second I become able to I'm set upon by SVS who is determined to see me as bad. I don't particularly want to be taken out straight away so of course I'm going to try to defend myself. Why shouldn't I?

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy puts on a penguin suit and begins to waddle around town. He gives hugs to all the cutie-patooties he encounters until he happens to stumble upon BWT walking the streets. The man in the penguin costume runs to BWT and tackles him with a hug. The penguin looks into BWT's eyes and wonders...
What is Synonym doing... ?

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy, still in a penguin suit, dismounts BWT and waddles towards the sunset. On top of a oceanside cliff, the man in the penguin suit stands staring towards the setting sun. Waves can be heard crashing below, gulls can be heard soaring through the sky. The wind picks up and a beach breeze blows some mist and the smell of salt into the air. The sun reflecting off the mist, looks like hundreds of stars floating in the air. Wilgy turns away from the sun and puts both of his penguin wings to his face in an excited manner, the penguins expression even changes to that of panic...
What are bea and Boomslang doing as well!?!?

[Scotty]

My responses in pink. My asides within my responses are in green.

Yo! Scotty, clam down buddy, It's still night time

Ok, time to get out the grease and do some debunking. Going through your post and quoting properly sounds like a nightmare, so I'll just copy paste stuff and respond. I don't envy you combing through that blocky-ass text wall

"We don't know exactly when Uzbeethoven recruited, but we can assume it was some time in that time frame."
-are we to assume that the time of the hosts post was not the same time of the recruitment? I thought they were posted for a reason. Yes, of course they're for a reason , but who knows when Black Rock gets time out her schedule to post what she needs to post?

"I imagine Wilgy running out into the street with his pants around his ankles shouting that he found Narnia. "
-and it was beautiful.

"This is probably tin-foiling, but my highlighted line there is equally apt when comparing it to dead Bubbles' recent post explaining that she was, in fact, emotionally invested in this game. My feeling is that she lamented of this fact in chat, and her teammates would know of this. DrWilgy, perhaps, is echoing this sentiment since it was based in reality."
-or maybe I'm sympathetic, and I feel that gauging someones emotional limit is wrong. Being sympathetic is one thing, and being strategically sympathetic is another. I have a theory. Within human societal context. My theory is that no one is completely selfless. There is always a measure of selfishness in a decision or thought to do something. Altruism is an ideal, but not a reality. I used to regularly give homeless people on the street in NY food or change when I was feeling generous and bright-eyed and bushy-tailed in the early years that I lived here. I don't do that anymore, because I'm constantly on the verge of being there myself hahahahahahaa But. Every time I did so, I thought, 'wow, I'm being really charitable right now. I'm a pretty nice dude!' In retrospect, I fail to see how that is altruistic. It makes me feel better about myself, even if the thought is charitable and kind. So I ask you, what did you hope to gain from being sympathetic with her?

"He then does a long response to timmer's philosophy, and really lays it on. Attempting to distance from a Bubbles lynch."
-Does this not match anything I've done previous? Unfurl was one of my earliest votes this game because her philosophy is in disagreement with my own. Exploring more options, opening discussion, and trying to solve this game by becoming involved with other players isn't distancing oneself from a lynch, It's playing mafia. I'll give you this one. Your attempts at putting pressure on SVS and timmer were legitimate, and in my drunken state I could see nothing but ill-intentions. This could be a civ thing or a baddie thing, I just chose to see you all in red. And if you were bad, then this is plainly obvious to me. WIFOM, not going to pursue this one.

"Nice catch of phrasing there at the end."
-Autocorrect is a dirty dirty girl, and I wasn't dancing around the point that I was defending Bubbles. It's obvious that I was, phrasing of what I did is irrelevant here, because we could all see that.

"But why defend her at all? What changed from Day 4 to Day 5 that would make you see her in a different light?
Ah...there it is. Very...convenient timing, wouldn't you say? "
-Because lynching someone I believe to be neutral or civ is wrong. If I see and believe that we are about to kill a neutral or civ, I will defend them. Similarly, so everyone knows i'm not talking out of my ass, I stated that I would use my vote to save Golden (which ended up failing). The difference between day 4 and day 5? Unfurl's death. I explained it many times, but I still think, Unfurl's death was meant to frame Bubbles. It didn't sit right with me, it also didn't sit right with me how no one would defend Bubbles, so I thought there had to be something wrong. This viewpoint actually makes sense to me. This is assuming that Uzy's lynch switch was intended for unfurl. With this many powers, you never know. It looks that way, and I'm not sure what powers would make it so, but I'm just saying you never knows who is trying to set up whom.

"Actually, if you look at the positions, position 1 is the the strongest position for him, since he can't die. We knew that position 2 was a bad position, so that's not news."
-I disagree with your opinions on what is the strongest. In position 2, he can't dye via lynch, and he uses our strength against us. In position 1, he can't die AT ALL. I mean they both suck, but it especially sucks if one of the roles wants to get involved in killing him at night.

"Why is he defending her so hard? Even if he were civ-minded, come on man, it's 4 hours til lynch. What does he have to lose by just letting it slide. Also, would an unrecruited player be defending her this hard?"
-I don't think I can express the fact that I thought she was neutral any harder. Why would I allow a neutral die, over someone I thought to be a baddie?

"She had not really defended herself even before that point. That's what made her appear, and reveal to be, so scummy.
You are assuming that Umbreon had no other powers messing around with the night kill. Also, if you don't believe she was
We don't know exactly when she was recruited, that's just when BR posted the recruitment. Also, you sure are backtracking with these timestamps. VERY guilty, my man.
Also:
a) TinyBubbles had been posting the same way, in chunky schedules all game. If you recall she went almost an entire day not defending herself on Day 4, only to show up immediately after her mis-lynch to apply some lipstick and go "oh, that was weird."
b) why on earth would she care about setting you up? If she were a goner anyway, what purpose would that achieve?
c) you're putting so much effort into the time stamps, that, again, it drips with guilt."
-Her defense was her explaining that she didn't know what was happening, what made her appear is that people didn't believe it was genuine. No, I don't believe that there were other powers messing with the lynching, not night kill,Yes, thanks for the correction. Lynching. My mistake. and there's no evidence to make me believe different. Are you to assume that the Host wouldn't tell us of recruitment the time of recruitment? That wouldn't make sense. What's wrong with backtracking with timestamps? You've done the same thing right here. Timestamps help prove a point by supplying a logical time frame. It's that it was very precise defending. It made sense from a bystander level of someone that took stock of your surroundings. You made sure to cover your tracks, and the time stamps don't look bad for you if you assume BR posted at the exact moment of recruitment. I'm saying you could have known for -who knows how long- before that that you were recruited, and had a good alibi to back you up by looking at presumed timing.
a) 2 hours is not immediately Well it was 1 hour and 23 minutes after to be precise, but you missed the main idea of this point in that she literally didn't post from Friday Aug 28th @ 2p- with her responses before her absence of basically "guysss, I don't like arguments or confrontations." as her initial defense- to Sunday Aug 30th @ 12:56a where she says she is "happy to address questions". I know this doesn't do much to shed light on your decisions, since she's already dead and gone, but this didn't read to most of the rest of the crowd as a person that was on the civ side, and was a good bet to be bad.
b) Getting a mislynch on me. Which is still good for their team. You did that to yourself for defending her so avidly. I don't think TinyBubbles was thinking about framing anyone.
c) how so? From my viewpoint, it's something like this, replacing the material, of course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6oPWh_gJoc


"'I posted her defense 6 min before the day 5 recruitment (and that's not including the time it took to write it).'
How specific. Is this the same defense you mentioned you didn't have time to write in a post 3 hours and 25 minutes before?"
-yes, I don't understand what you are reaching for Scotty. How is my use of time incorrect or scummy?

"And at the end of your [slightly unwarranted and manic] defense, you start putting the blame on SVS.

Let's say you for a second that you meant well, you're unrecruited/civ, just trying to be the keeper of the peace. You see some good in Bubbles, all before she turns baddie in Day 5. Let's say your theory is correct, you think she's genuine, hindsight is 20/20..a good chunk of people suspected her enough to vote her Day 4 (even you say you were suspicious) and 16 people didn't like her enough to not vote her. You felt like being the knight in shining armor, just in case she was good.

All of this doesn't answer the resounding question: IF YOU ARE UNRECRUITED OR CIV, WHAT COULD YOU POSSIBLY GAIN BY DEFENDING HER SO HARD?"
-A lynch on a baddie, instead of an unrecruited. I will always baddie hunt. A mislynch on both a civ and and unrecruited are bad, and we have discussed this before. Some players were even wanting to lynch others because of this philosophy. I don't plan on sitting back while I see something bad happening.

[Scotty]

Responses in red

I'll respond within the quote this time!

I'm putting a vote on DrWilgy for now. A couple of things have been bothering me.

- Early in the game he had that odd hate/love relationship with unfurl. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why the lynch got switched to her. So he could make that "Will you help me avenge Unfurl?" post while also bringing up the "it makes no sense for Bubbles to kill unfurl" argument.
Love hate relationship? You obviously Haven't been reading my greentext...that is also unrelated to the game on most levels. One thing that is true though, is that MM and Unfurl were and are my friends. MM and I recently played a game together and I enjoyed his style. I accused Unfurl early based upon philosophy and regretted it, so I wanted to be a good friend and make it up to her. Also, it making no sense for Bubbles to kill Unfurl is still a relevant and logical argument that was unrelated to me wanting to avenge her.
Let it also be known that you were on a MAFIA team with MM in the last game you played with him. I really don't know why you guys are so blatantly friendly in this game as well.

[Scotty]

Public Announcement

Ricochet has been rezzed. He can't be lynched today or targeted tonight.

Oh! Just saw this. Wb Rico! Any thoughts so far since you've been gone?

[Scotty]

Wilgy, still in a penguin suit, dismounts BWT and waddles towards the sunset. On top of a oceanside cliff, the man in the penguin suit stands staring towards the setting sun. Waves can be heard crashing below, gulls can be heard soaring through the sky. The wind picks up and a beach breeze blows some mist and the smell of salt into the air. The sun reflecting off the mist, looks like hundreds of stars floating in the air. Wilgy turns away from the sun and puts both of his penguin wings to his face in an excited manner, the penguins expression even changes to that of panic...
What are bea and Boomslang doing as well!?!?

Dude, just for real talk here, I'm loving your random thematic green text.

[Scotty]

Voted for DrWilgy.

Want to look at Sorsha next.

And bea said recently that she's wondering why no one has brought her into Suspicion Square (tm) yet, and I also have grown curious of such.

She'll be after Sorsha.

[Scotty]

If SVS were good, I would be dead right now. Her team didn't NK me because it would have led right back to her.

If I am wrong then you can go ahead and lynch me right after.

You seem to be saying I am on Team Uzburger. Azura killed last night. Make up your mind.

Good point, Guess you didn't get the chance to kill me last night.

So I take it the point is Ahriman did not try to kill you?

Are you saying you think that DH thinks that SVS is Ahriman? Or are you just setting him up here?

[Scotty]

Going with 5 and way to go everyone .

Remember when this guy came replaced DF and has posted 4 times since?

Yeah, me neither.

And only during night 4 and 5, too. He literally has been around to vote for positions.

[Scotty]

Hi guys, welcome to the Scotty show. Join me as I spend 3 hours attempting to set the time on my microwave. Also, I talk to myself in the bathroom. WHAT.

[Boomslang]

Wilgy, still in a penguin suit, dismounts BWT and waddles towards the sunset. On top of a oceanside cliff, the man in the penguin suit stands staring towards the setting sun. Waves can be heard crashing below, gulls can be heard soaring through the sky. The wind picks up and a beach breeze blows some mist and the smell of salt into the air. The sun reflecting off the mist, looks like hundreds of stars floating in the air. Wilgy turns away from the sun and puts both of his penguin wings to his face in an excited manner, the penguins expression even changes to that of panic...
What are bea and Boomslang doing as well!?!?

Flying under the radar
But seriously, I'm intrigued by llama's proposal to hunt among those who did not interact with bubbles before the lynch. Been looking a bit, will post a few conclusions shortly.

[Sorsha]

Night be beneficial to look at yesterday's lynch along with the lynch that got switched to unfurl. I meant to but haven't gotten around to it. If someone has ambition and time it might be helpful.

[DrWilgy]

Responses in red

I'll respond within the quote this time!

I'm putting a vote on DrWilgy for now. A couple of things have been bothering me.

- Early in the game he had that odd hate/love relationship with unfurl. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why the lynch got switched to her. So he could make that "Will you help me avenge Unfurl?" post while also bringing up the "it makes no sense for Bubbles to kill unfurl" argument.
Love hate relationship? You obviously Haven't been reading my greentext...that is also unrelated to the game on most levels. One thing that is true though, is that MM and Unfurl were and are my friends. MM and I recently played a game together and I enjoyed his style. I accused Unfurl early based upon philosophy and regretted it, so I wanted to be a good friend and make it up to her. Also, it making no sense for Bubbles to kill Unfurl is still a relevant and logical argument that was unrelated to me wanting to avenge her.
Let it also be known that you were on a MAFIA team with MM in the last game you played with him. I really don't know why you guys are so blatantly friendly in this game as well.

Oh boy... I'll sort through your messages in the morning Scotty, I hope you don't mind waiting abit. I would reccomend moving the vote off me though... In regards to MM, yes we were both mafia, but that doesn't change my enjoyment of him as a person. What is the harm in being friendly with your friends?

Wilgy waddles over towards Scotty, bows in thanks, then waddles back home.

[Scotty]

Responses in red

I'll respond within the quote this time!

I'm putting a vote on DrWilgy for now. A couple of things have been bothering me.

- Early in the game he had that odd hate/love relationship with unfurl. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why the lynch got switched to her. So he could make that "Will you help me avenge Unfurl?" post while also bringing up the "it makes no sense for Bubbles to kill unfurl" argument.
Love hate relationship? You obviously Haven't been reading my greentext...that is also unrelated to the game on most levels. One thing that is true though, is that MM and Unfurl were and are my friends. MM and I recently played a game together and I enjoyed his style. I accused Unfurl early based upon philosophy and regretted it, so I wanted to be a good friend and make it up to her. Also, it making no sense for Bubbles to kill Unfurl is still a relevant and logical argument that was unrelated to me wanting to avenge her.
Let it also be known that you were on a MAFIA team with MM in the last game you played with him. I really don't know why you guys are so blatantly friendly in this game as well.

Oh boy... I'll sort through your messages in the morning Scotty, I hope you don't mind waiting abit. I would reccomend moving the vote off me though... In regards to MM, yes we were both mafia, but that doesn't change my enjoyment of him as a person. What is the harm in being friendly with your friends?

Wilgy waddles over towards Scotty, bows in thanks, then waddles back home.

No problem. I've been quite sporadic and lacking in content the last few days, so I shant expect any different.

Know that it is staying on you as of now, however. I have more digging to do on others, so this may not be where it ends up by tomorrow, however.

[Boomslang]

Notes on selected members of Llama's List (TM), regarding my assessment of their possible teamwork with bubbles:

Bea - Unlikely. She cast doubt on bubbles with a pretty substantial post from Day 3, then casts a vote that way on Day 4.

DrWilgy - Quite possible. What pings me the most is this combination of posts:
From Day 4:

*side-note to this: does Wilgy have any opinion on other players who also failed to save Golden (such as MP) or is Sorsha the only player you noticed?

The only other players I'm interested at this point are SVS, Unfurl, Sorsha, and Dom...

Followed by this from Day 5:

I was actually OK with the TinyBubbles lynch a day ago, but I honestly don't believe bubbles and Ubzargan being on the same team.

Spacedaisy - Maybe, but not quite as pinged as with Dr. Wilgy. She's "not feeling" the first Bubbles lynch, but then quickly changes her attitude when Bubbles posts an exaggerated innocence claim. She backs this up with a very confident claim that the baddies switched the lynch to save Bubbles; this is either a good intuitive read or a textbook case of bussing after the team bought another night's worth of time.

timmer - Again, probably not. Does a Day 4 vote on Bubbles with decent justification, then develops the case pretty fully on Day 5 while defending it against Dr. Wilgy, whom I already suspect.

tranq - Possibly, but even less than Daisy. Hard to tell with his number of posts. He seems to miss the Bubbles case on Day 4, which could be either honest or "convenient." But he does develop decent analysis on why the lynch switch would happen.

In summary, I think DrWilgy is most deserving of further inquiry.

[Turnip Head]

Wilgy, still in a penguin suit, dismounts BWT and waddles towards the sunset. On top of a oceanside cliff, the man in the penguin suit stands staring towards the setting sun. Waves can be heard crashing below, gulls can be heard soaring through the sky. The wind picks up and a beach breeze blows some mist and the smell of salt into the air. The sun reflecting off the mist, looks like hundreds of stars floating in the air. Wilgy turns away from the sun and puts both of his penguin wings to his face in an excited manner, the penguins expression even changes to that of panic...
What are bea and Boomslang doing as well!?!?

Flying under the radar
But seriously, I'm intrigued by llama's proposal to hunt among those who did not interact with bubbles before the lynch. Been looking a bit, will post a few conclusions shortly.

YOU didn't interact with bubbles.

[Spacedaisy]

Ok, I don't know why no one is talking about this, but I will. Llama, the Bubbles lynch flip makes you look incredibly bad. You came out of the gate on Bubbles for something ridiculous. And yet when it came down to her lynch you didn't vote for her. Not only did you not vote for her but you made two separate posts talking about how Uzbarg would have no reason not to use his power, one time saying that we learn zero information from the switch. The last time you said anything negative about Bubbles was in Night 4 and all it said was everything bubbles said read insincere to you. That is it. So you go from being after her hard at the start and then you barely say anything about her lynch? Then after her flip you come out yelling about how you knew it and you were right, etc. taking credit for a lynch you played absolutely no part in at all. Your only explanation about why you didn't vote for her was to say you didn't think your vote would matter so you put your vote somewhere else. And if that was why you were doing it, why wouldn't you say that in your vote. Why wouldn't you express your approval of the lynch train that was forming? Instead you tried to convince people who were waffling to vote for DH instead. I think you are Uz and you recruited Bubbles. I think today's dog and pony show about looking for Bubbles teammates is your way to hopefully direct attention anywhere but you.

[Spacedaisy]

Registering a vote for Llama

[Turnip Head]

Ok, I don't know why no one is talking about this, but I will. Llama, the Bubbles lynch flip makes you look incredibly bad. You came out of the gate on Bubbles for something ridiculous. And yet when it came down to her lynch you didn't vote for her. Not only did you not vote for her but you made two separate posts talking about how Uzbarg would have no reason not to use his power, one time saying that we learn zero information from the switch. The last time you said anything negative about Bubbles was in Night 4 and all it said was everything bubbles said read insincere to you. That is it. So you go from being after her hard at the start and then you barely say anything about her lynch? Then after her flip you come out yelling about how you knew it and you were right, etc. taking credit for a lynch you played absolutely no part in at all. Your only explanation about why you didn't vote for her was to say you didn't think your vote would matter so you put your vote somewhere else. And if that was why you were doing it, why wouldn't you say that in your vote. Why wouldn't you express your approval of the lynch train that was forming? Instead you tried to convince people who were waffling to vote for DH instead. I think you are Uz and you recruited Bubbles. I think today's dog and pony show about looking for Bubbles teammates is your way to hopefully direct attention anywhere but you.

Damn. Now this is a post.

[Boomslang]

Wilgy, still in a penguin suit, dismounts BWT and waddles towards the sunset. On top of a oceanside cliff, the man in the penguin suit stands staring towards the setting sun. Waves can be heard crashing below, gulls can be heard soaring through the sky. The wind picks up and a beach breeze blows some mist and the smell of salt into the air. The sun reflecting off the mist, looks like hundreds of stars floating in the air. Wilgy turns away from the sun and puts both of his penguin wings to his face in an excited manner, the penguins expression even changes to that of panic...
What are bea and Boomslang doing as well!?!?

Flying under the radar
But seriously, I'm intrigued by llama's proposal to hunt among those who did not interact with bubbles before the lynch. Been looking a bit, will post a few conclusions shortly.

YOU didn't interact with bubbles.

Bah, just realized I misinterpreted llama's statement: he meant players with whom Bubbles didn't interact, not vice versa. And she did ask "what's the case" on me. However, you'll also find I did express skepticism of Bubbles on Day 4:

Addressing the other vote leaders:

Hey all i've been reeeeeally busy and just havent had time to read all posts,sorry. i'm willing to change my vote from turniphead to either golden or bass since that's where things seem to be headed.. golden hasn't seemed totally his upfront self like from previous games, it's giving me goosebumps. what's the case against bass though?

Bubbles, what do you think about Bass, right now, before being presented with any case?

neutral

Would you rather lynch Turnip Head than Golden or Bass?

i'd rather vote for someone who's actually going to be lynched, right now turniphead doesn't look like much of a target. it would be a wasted vote to stay with him. what are most people's reason for voting bass? and why did you go with scotty? (on that note why did scotty vote himself?!)

This is really the only thing that pings me (or, in JJJ's words, makes me "feel something") about TinyBubbles. The idea of the "wasted vote" and wanting to vote alongside others. There's more concern about causing a lynch and blending in than there is about making a personal decision, and that strikes me as fishy.

Should have followed up on that Day 5, but we can't all be right all of the time.

[Scotty]

Ok, I don't know why no one is talking about this, but I will. Llama, the Bubbles lynch flip makes you look incredibly bad. You came out of the gate on Bubbles for something ridiculous. And yet when it came down to her lynch you didn't vote for her. Not only did you not vote for her but you made two separate posts talking about how Uzbarg would have no reason not to use his power, one time saying that we learn zero information from the switch. The last time you said anything negative about Bubbles was in Night 4 and all it said was everything bubbles said read insincere to you. That is it. So you go from being after her hard at the start and then you barely say anything about her lynch? Then after her flip you come out yelling about how you knew it and you were right, etc. taking credit for a lynch you played absolutely no part in at all. Your only explanation about why you didn't vote for her was to say you didn't think your vote would matter so you put your vote somewhere else. And if that was why you were doing it, why wouldn't you say that in your vote. Why wouldn't you express your approval of the lynch train that was forming? Instead you tried to convince people who were waffling to vote for DH instead. I think you are Uz and you recruited Bubbles. I think today's dog and pony show about looking for Bubbles teammates is your way to hopefully direct attention anywhere but you.

Damn. Now this is a post.

See, now why can't my wall of words be squeezed through a juicer to this level of succinctness?

Fair points, Spacedaisy. Will investigate llama further as well.

[timmer]

I like it, SD. I like it a lot. For now, coring llama

[Long Con]

I like it, SD. I like it a lot. For now, coring llama

Sounds painful!

[Long Con]

[Scotty]

Ok I read through Sorsha again with the bias of being on Uzbeeswax's team.

I don't see it. At all. Sorsha has voted for Bubbles every day since day 2, missing day 1 because she didn't feel comfortable voting for anyone. The only point she sorta wavered from her was on Day 5, but it was more defending her suspicion of Bubbles so nevermind.

But then I never really suspected her as Uzbaryshnikov's team. I suspected her as being involved in Epi's Night 1 kill, which would put her firmly in Azura's camp.

Sorsha has described herself as a follower in games: "I'm never much of a case builder on players, I typically read what others have dug up and either agree or disagree with it." Which may or may not be how she usually plays here. Either way, it would be a great fallback for being a recruiter.

I don't see why the Sorsha lynch has gone to the wayside.

Because players saw it for the cop out bandwagon that it was.

I'm heading in to work now and don't know if I'll be able to check in anymore before the lynch closes. I haven't seen anything strong enough to change my mind for my vote today.

Votes bubbles

Oh, the SHADE! She dropped that mic.

Night be beneficial to look at yesterday's lynch along with the lynch that got switched to unfurl. I meant to but haven't gotten around to it. If someone has ambition and time it might be helpful.

Anything specific you'd like to look at? Slash, what do you think we've been doing while you've been away feeding the Cthulu monster on Mt. Doom?

[DharmaHelper]

In Norse mythology, Sleipnir (Old Norse "slippy"[1] or "the slipper"[2]) is an eight-legged horse. Sleipnir is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In both sources, Sleipnir is Odin's steed, is the child of Loki and Svaðilfari, is described as the best of all horses, and is sometimes ridden to the location of Hel. The Prose Edda contains extended information regarding the circumstances of Sleipnir's birth, and details that he is grey in color.

Additionally, Sleipnir is mentioned in a riddle found in the 13th century legendary saga Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks, in the 13th century legendary saga Völsunga saga as the ancestor of the horse Grani, and book I of Gesta Danorum, written in the 12th century by Saxo Grammaticus, contains an episode considered by many scholars to involve Sleipnir. Sleipnir is generally accepted as depicted on two 8th century Gotlandic image stones; the Tjängvide image stone and the Ardre VIII image stone.

Scholarly theories have been proposed regarding Sleipnir's potential connection to shamanic practices among the Norse pagans. In modern times, Sleipnir appears in Icelandic folklore as the creator of Ásbyrgi, in works of art, literature, software, and in the names of ships.

[Turnip Head]

In Norse mythology, Sleipnir (Old Norse "slippy"[1] or "the slipper"[2]) is an eight-legged horse. Sleipnir is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In both sources, Sleipnir is Odin's steed, is the child of Loki and Svaðilfari, is described as the best of all horses, and is sometimes ridden to the location of Hel. The Prose Edda contains extended information regarding the circumstances of Sleipnir's birth, and details that he is grey in color.

Additionally, Sleipnir is mentioned in a riddle found in the 13th century legendary saga Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks, in the 13th century legendary saga Völsunga saga as the ancestor of the horse Grani, and book I of Gesta Danorum, written in the 12th century by Saxo Grammaticus, contains an episode considered by many scholars to involve Sleipnir. Sleipnir is generally accepted as depicted on two 8th century Gotlandic image stones; the Tjängvide image stone and the Ardre VIII image stone.

Scholarly theories have been proposed regarding Sleipnir's potential connection to shamanic practices among the Norse pagans. In modern times, Sleipnir appears in Icelandic folklore as the creator of Ásbyrgi, in works of art, literature, software, and in the names of ships.

Amen.

[Scotty]

Llama on bubbles:
suspects her early on. Day 1:

Well, I know who I'm voting for. Anyone want to talk about anything else while we wait?

How about if we should lynch you for already deciding who you're voting for with little explanation?

Also, I completely forgot who you said you're voting for so yeah there's that...

Would you like an explanation? I would be happy to provide one.

linki Golden: I don't think the lynch save should be used on the person I will be voting for, because I think that person is bad.

Well Golden's post reminded me it was Bubbles. So yeah, either an explanation or a link back to your reason why would suffice for now.

I asked Bubbles if she was bad, and she said she was. Why would she lie about that?

If Llama were on Team Uzoolander, he threw Tiny under the bus early. Granted, he was the only one to vote her, and was sure of it by the start of Day 1.

Now, regarding low posters: My feeling is that they are less likely to be recruited, and therefore more likely to remain unaligned. Not ideal choices for lynches, especially later in the game. On Day 1, however, they are just as likely to be a recruiter as anyone else, so if we're going to go after them, we should do it sooner rather than later.

If llama is Ubzibloof, he would be recruiting completely opposite to his philosophy here. Which I wouldn't put past him.

13 pages for me to catch up on? You guys are killing me. I do not think golden is bad
D. I do not think epi is bad. I do not think marmot is bad.

You know who didn't post at all during those 13 pages, who disappeared as soon as I wasn't around to attack her? TinyBubbles. She gets my vote.

Votes Tiny Day 1, on a weak reasoning, but it's Day 1. Whatever.

Day 2:
All over MP. Doesn't mention Tiny. Votes MP.

Day 3:

damn it, i just can't vote golden again. i don't care if he's a baddie or not, it feels like rejecting a friend. he's totally right about him and other talkative players like MP and epi getting heat just for talking, rather than for the content of their posts. it isn't right,and the game would be dead in the water without their input, i don't think anyone should be punished for posting a lot, even though it obviously makes them a bigger target.

hope you have a good trip golden! i wont vote you out though!!!
and i know my own arguments are flipping back and forth but thats what happens when you get emotionally invested in a game like this ><

voting rey on golden's testimony

This is what "emotionally invested" looks like for you?!
You have 22 posts. Only 7 of those posts are longer than one line. Of those 7, two are jokes, and one is an excuse for why you've not been around.
Based on this, I'm going to suggest that being overly "emotionally invested" is not a super believable excuse for your waffling.

I don't look so stupid for my early suspicion of TinyBubbles now, do I?

Reminding us of his original feeling of Tiny being bad.

I don't think I'm comfortable voting for Golden today. I would like to lynch DharmaHelper or TinyBubbles.

I actually don't know who llama voted for Day 3. The first half of Day 3 vote tallies were lost for whatever reason, and he didn't vote in the second half. I'm assuming he probably voted Tiny.

Day 4: Llama votes Tiny after Canuck does.

Then has this to say 2 posts after:

I'm happy with my vote where it is for now, but unfurl's "I'm just being me" defense is ludicrous and everyone should realize that. I don't trust her at all.

Note that anyone on Ubzanzibar's team has free range of casting suspicion wherever they want on Day 4, since the lynch can be switched in position 2 if need be.

Llama and MM, I don't see your votes yet. What are you, chickens? I can't wait to see your responses when I don't flip mafia.

If you don't see my vote, it's because you are not looking. I have voted and I don't intend to change it today. Chillax, bra. I'm not voting for you yet. I just don't think you are playing supatown this game.

unfurl gets lynched day 4:

Dang, I was sure unfurl was bad. RIP.

I don't think I want position 4, even with consequences, so I will vote for position 1 again.

It's almost like he puts a placeholder vote on Tiny. He said she was a top suspect of his, but most of what I see is alluding to how he thinks unfurl is bad.
Plus, he wants position 1, which I already have said I think is Uzbleargh's best and most powerful position.

Day 5:

RIP unfurl ? and i am confused, why did unfurl get lynched and not me,according to the poll i got the most votes...?? if by some miracle im still alive i will be happy to address any questions! somewhat caught up and have time today

This read really insincere to me. Especially when a quick glance at the role would give you the most obvious scenario almost right at the top.

Almost everything TinyBubbles has said this game has read insincere to me.

A big chunk of his day then is of his wariness of DH. He then votes DH on account of DH saying he wants out. He doesn't mention Tiny once more during that day period. Not once. Followed by her lynch and:

YES!!! TinyBubbles was bad! I love when I am right.

Night 5:

I'll go position 5 to avoid immunity. I'm going to reread TB's posts to see if I can find a link to her recruiter.

Remember this the next time people give me a hard time for putting weight on the "are you bad" question.

So you know she was recruited by the time you asked her if she was bad?

I don't know that, but regardless, my approach found a baddie. You can't argue with results.

Why is buttering himself up like he just scored a goal in soccer? He didn't do shit on Day 5. He followed Canuck's leads for voting Bubbles on Day 4. He did have her as the top suspect of his on both Day 1 and 3 however. It's been like a magic 8-ball with him in regards to Tiny. It's either all or nothing.

Day 6:

On the Llama Docket today: reread TinyBubbles to look for clues to her recruiter; Take a hard look at Bullzeye, since I haven't yet.

Still on the waitlist to find the recruiter. Meanwhile, my grandchildren were born, China built a lunar space elevator, and I finally finished a roll of floss for the first time.

He does end up listing people's interactions with Bubbles, honing in on Bullzeye (I don't know if I agree with Bullzeye's connection, however) so I can't fault him for putting the list out there.

I think there is definite cause for concern with llama's complete avoidance of TinyBubbles in day 5 (and 2). For someone so committed on Day 4- "I'm not changing my vote"- to non-voting is prettay suspect. But would Uzbarge bus his teammate for 3 separate days out of 5? It's possible. Uzblintch can protect on position 5 (day 2, though I don't know if that is day or night specific), and can misdirect lynch on position 2 (day 4). It would make sense for Uzookeepr to bus a teammate on day 4, though he didn't seem to do it to Tiny on Day 2. So who knows if that makes sense.

I dunno. It's definitely something I might consider today.

[Ricochet]

Oh I'm back!



Paraphrasing this from TH back when he was unlynchable in Death Note, because I still remember LMAO at this reaction of his.

I'll answer both LoRab (did you kill me? ) and Scotty's questions, for now. From the positions, I can only assume the Shaman used his rezz today. It's written as a "possible rezz", does that mean the odds of his rezz working are not 100%? I'd need to check if there was any power steal in Position 4, but I find it a more sinuous theory than the Shaman one. I don't know why the Shaman (or whoever did this) found me worthy of being rezzed. Anyway, if so, I'm grateful to him and I'm glad the rezz worked.

To be honest, getting rezzed at a later stage would have probably been better for my chances in this game. I didn't feel I stood a chance to stay unrecruited and survive up until I got hit and I don't think my chances are better upon returning. Remember when I pondered about how big players are getting axed so far? What if it's not that farfetched and it's part of the baddies mentality? Both teams are surprisingly synchronous in this direction so far: Epig (Azura), G-Man (Ubzy), MP (Ubzy), me (Azura).

I think a better question is who killed me and what for? For WIFOM due to my clash with LoRab? For my talk, activity and skills? For looking civ? For my suspects? (I can't say it's for retribution, because Azura killed me and Bubbles was an Uzbek).

As for thoughts, I'm afraid I took the "throw my hands in the air" stance after being killed yesterday and, except for browsing the thread on occassions, I have to pick it up right from the start of D6. If I wouldn't have died, I would have attempted to scan the entire field for Bubbles relations (sort of like llama did, but probably more in the shape of a wall of China-like text); with less than 24hrs to go now, I doubt I'll achieve that. Have to go to work in half an hour, but will re-read the major input so far and pitch in.

Oh, farewell to Dom and DP.

[nutella]

WB Rico.

A few more names/cases have been brought up and I'm feeling kinda overwhelmed again. I'm honestly open to lynching almost anyone at this point -- I can't say that I particularly trust anyone completely, and the numbers of the recruited are creeping up. Again I would really like to see more participation from Rey, as well as Sorsha, Devin, Bass 2.0, etc. The recent findings on Llama are quite compelling, I could totally see that behavior as indicative of teammatery. Would certainly be a rather daring attitude for him to put on so blatantly in those comments after the lynch, but I wouldn't put it past him.

[Marmot]

Votes Turnip Head today.

[Ricochet]

Ok, work today meant to wait for two hours for a student to come give me some diplomas copies, so I can file them for some school funds competition, so here's my catch-up of D6.

Throwing it out there.

RAW

1) The "leader back story" winner would have received one role from each team. What Caelia did is either simple gossip post (her own position) or gossip transposed into the format of the contest (her own position, manipulated to sound like the result of the event). Unfortunately, she pretty much botched her own attempt because: a) she suggested four bad players (she should have received two civ, two bad, if genuine) and b) she gave players instead of roles. So it's clear her post is still gossipy, no matter the format.

Side-note, how would the prize winner be allowed to share his info, if he'd choose to share it? Open message to the thread or hinting through posts, as usual? If the former, since Caelia gossiped, I don't think we got any real info so far. There's also a 50-50 chance the winner kept it to himself; or is bad and the info suits only him and his team now. Heck, I submitted myself a story and it was pretty bitchin' if you ask me, so for all I know, I could have won, but got killed at the same time and the result was thus null.

HOWEVER, whilst I still believe gossip posts don't need to be treated as truths or info (remember Speaker?), we are still talking about one of the civ leaders. Her attempts, even by tricks such as the card she tried to play here, are still supposed to be genuine. She doesn't have a check position, but she could have teammates with check positions, so real info is not truly out of the question.

This being said, I think I'd give the following grades to those who reacted to this:

Bullzeye: minus, because of his outright dismissal and calling her effort a waste. Dude, she's a civ leader, she can coat her efforts however she wants, it doesn't make her perspective be any less genuine. If she has no real info, then those are her suspicions. If she has real info (from teammates who can check), some of it could be true. Honestly, I can only imagine someone being this dismissive if he feels stung by her claims.

LoRab: plus, because she questioned the veracity and the format of Caelia's message, as a way of defending herself, in a focused and (*gasp*) logical way.

SVS: null, because she briefly questioned the format and denied her name on the list being correct - which is pretty much what I'd expect of SVS

TH: comci-comca about Caelia's message containing both true and false info, so I'm comci-comca about his approach, too

timmer: taking it for granted at first, plus saying something confusing about Jay, then questioning the format after other players pointed it out. Not sure what to make of this.

Side-grade: did Scotty address his name being in the message or is he staying away from it?

----

2) Llama's picks from his own review of interactions (or lack thereof) with Bubbles [actually it's more the way Bubbles interacted with others, not how others addressed or interacted with her, which is just one side of the spectrum. hmmmmm...] were TH (interaction) and Bullzeye (no interaction). My questions are:

for interactions: why only TH or why TH "most likely"? what about Roxy, Canuck (whom Bubbles also defended)? what about rey (Bubbles is confirmed to have buddied up with Golden and thus voted rey to respect Golden's wishes and legacy)? what about Boomslang (Bubbles ignoring his case constantly)?

for no interactions: why only Bullzeye? What about Wilgy, for instance?

why only the "Bubbles interacting with" angle and not the "Bubbles addressed by" angle as well?

Also, I get the gloating (you're llama after all), but I'd suggest easing up on it with the supatowning and the "in your face" comments such as the one to Bullzeye. It's been pointed already that we don't know exactly when Bubbles was recruited and if Uzboing handpicked her early on or got her as teammate via other ways later on. So you could still have been wrong about her being bad early on, up to the point when she got recruited and your suspicions were suddenly valid. The only way you'd know for sure that you've been right about her all along is if you have info that she got handpicked early on or you handpicked her yourself. Which frankly would put you in the Uzbeg camp or in Ubzit's shoes themselves.

Also, you described Bullzeye's activity as "preventing good people from being lynched [rather] than in lynching bad people". Is "preventing good people from being lynched" inherently a bad thing or am I misunderstanding something here?

----

3) Bullzeye's pause about Uzbo not switching the lynch to Sorsha (second wagon) instead of unfurl of all people (no wagon at all) and his idea that Sorsha might be also bad is valid, but he forgets that Ubza is a vicious chaos-maker. Why get rid of second wagons instead of creating an unexpected death? What's the point of questioning his actions, apart from the Sorsha link? Is there a slight chance? Sure, if Ubzargan had to derail a lynch in which his teammates were first and second wagon, his team was in pretty dire shit that day. Otherwise, I'm not sure I fully understand this line of questioning.

----

4) Aap's D6 contribution gives me pause and I think it adds up to his overall contribution as well, although I'd need to re-read. His posts are just focused on mechanics, speculations (the Speakers being dead because he hasn't sent messages? how are you sure about that? it's an old story, but what if his positions 2-5 aren't messaging?), skeptical about Wilgy WIFOM and something about Ahriman not killing DH? wut? Anyway, I don't see so far how his input aligns with the current topics and leads, so I'm starting to be wary of him.

----

5) JJJ seems silenced

----

6) nutella's "I'd like to find Bubbles' teammates but I haven't the first clue how." pinged me. it's D6, some of us are doing efforts, so why the resignation?

----

7) Wilgy said he'd look into my death. Any finds, bro?
Wilgy also said something about finding out who's poisoned. How can we even begin to know or be able to tell that, right now? What's the significance of this?

----

8) The talk about Host Posts containing hints (nutella, aapje) doesn't seem positive to me. LC was clear that we shouldn't look too deep into the story. What's the point to say that LC could still be lying about it or something (aapje, I think)? According to the N5 story, I'd be an Ahriman recruit, but I'm not (I'm unrecruited), so yeah, story is story.

----

9) SVS's post about the Executioner not killing her last Night and how that would have proven a point? Huh? What point would him attempting to kill you have proven? What did you mean by this?

----

10) LoRab, you've gone back to TH, but do you have any other opinions, suspicions apart from him and me? It's D6, the bad teams are at a standard size; the field is also down to a standard full-game size. Your nod to SVS's case on Bullzeye is pretty mellow, almost as if to tell the thread that you're receptive to others, but not much more than that.

Also, as a general side-note, although this should probably be saved for post-game, I cannot express how much I dislike the "placeholding" vote tactic. Changeable votes are supposed to influence the course of a Day phase, in a way - they can be placed to influence, fish out reactions, shape discussion, make a temporary but clear stand and so on. Parking votes just because of how big the field of players is and unwillingness (or laziness?) to check (or open a separate tab with) "View results" doesn't fit into any of those categories.

----

11) SYN WHEN DO YOU START PLAYING. OH CAPS

----

12) Sorsha's "someone please do leads for me" pinged me. Sounds like a catch-up comment without any catch-up, thrown in just to please the thread.

----

13) Spacedaisy's case seems genuine, but there's a tiny part of me that finds it also sudden. She points out Llama's evolution in addressing Bubbles throughout the game, but during the phases when it worsened, I don't remember her actively questioning him at that time. The last time was D4, when she called Llama reasonable with his activity. Also she suspects Llama for a change of tone in the last Days, but gives the verdict that Llama recruited Bubbles, which is the sort of manual recruitement Bugzybargan could have only done in the early stage. So it's the same "recruiting" dillema: if you suspect Llama's moodchange is due to Bubbles becoming his teammate recently, you can't also say Llama recruited her manually prior in time.

This being said, your post might also influence me to re-read Llama.

----

14) Timmer went full jump in on Spacedaisy's Llama. I still don't trust him much, so this post doesn't stick out well to me. Does no one else have an issue with how he alternates between "le analysis man" to "le following others man"?

----

15) WIll probably focus on / re-read Bullzeye, Llama, Wilgy, maybe TH, for now.

[Synonym]

Ok, work today meant to wait for two hours for a student to come give me some diplomas copies, so I can file them for some school funds competition, so here's my catch-up of D6.

Throwing it out there.

RAW

1) The "leader back story" winner would have received one role from each team. What Caelia did is either simple gossip post (her own position) or gossip transposed into the format of the contest (her own position, manipulated to sound like the result of the event). Unfortunately, she pretty much botched her own attempt because: a) she suggested four bad players (she should have received two civ, two bad, if genuine) and b) she gave players instead of roles. So it's clear her post is still gossipy, no matter the format.

Side-note, how would the prize winner be allowed to share his info, if he'd choose to share it? Open message to the thread or hinting through posts, as usual? If the former, since Caelia gossiped, I don't think we got any real info so far. There's also a 50-50 chance the winner kept it to himself; or is bad and the info suits only him and his team now. Heck, I submitted myself a story and it was pretty bitchin' if you ask me, so for all I know, I could have won, but got killed at the same time and the result was thus null.

HOWEVER, whilst I still believe gossip posts don't need to be treated as truths or info (remember Speaker?), we are still talking about one of the civ leaders. Her attempts, even by tricks such as the card she tried to play here, are still supposed to be genuine. She doesn't have a check position, but she could have teammates with check positions, so real info is not truly out of the question.

This being said, I think I'd give the following grades to those who reacted to this:

Bullzeye: minus, because of his outright dismissal and calling her effort a waste. Dude, she's a civ leader, she can coat her efforts however she wants, it doesn't make her perspective be any less genuine. If she has no real info, then those are her suspicions. If she has real info (from teammates who can check), some of it could be true. Honestly, I can only imagine someone being this dismissive if he feels stung by her claims.

LoRab: plus, because she questioned the veracity and the format of Caelia's message, as a way of defending herself, in a focused and (*gasp*) logical way.

SVS: null, because she briefly questioned the format and denied her name on the list being correct - which is pretty much what I'd expect of SVS

TH: comci-comca about Caelia's message containing both true and false info, so I'm comci-comca about his approach, too

timmer: taking it for granted at first, plus saying something confusing about Jay, then questioning the format after other players pointed it out. Not sure what to make of this.

Side-grade: did Scotty address his name being in the message or is he staying away from it?

----

2) Llama's picks from his own review of interactions (or lack thereof) with Bubbles [actually it's more the way Bubbles interacted with others, not how others addressed or interacted with her, which is just one side of the spectrum. hmmmmm...] were TH (interaction) and Bullzeye (no interaction). My questions are:

for interactions: why only TH or why TH "most likely"? what about Roxy, Canuck (whom Bubbles also defended)? what about rey (Bubbles is confirmed to have buddied up with Golden and thus voted rey to respect Golden's wishes and legacy)? what about Boomslang (Bubbles ignoring his case constantly)?

for no interactions: why only Bullzeye? What about Wilgy, for instance?

why only the "Bubbles interacting with" angle and not the "Bubbles addressed by" angle as well?

Also, I get the gloating (you're llama after all), but I'd suggest easing up on it with the supatowning and the "in your face" comments such as the one to Bullzeye. It's been pointed already that we don't know exactly when Bubbles was recruited and if Uzboing handpicked her early on or got her as teammate via other ways later on. So you could still have been wrong about her being bad early on, up to the point when she got recruited and your suspicions were suddenly valid. The only way you'd know for sure that you've been right about her all along is if you have info that she got handpicked early on or you handpicked her yourself. Which frankly would put you in the Uzbeg camp or in Ubzit's shoes themselves.

Also, you described Bullzeye's activity as "preventing good people from being lynched [rather] than in lynching bad people". Is "preventing good people from being lynched" inherently a bad thing or am I misunderstanding something here?

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3) Bullzeye's pause about Uzbo not switching the lynch to Sorsha (second wagon) instead of unfurl of all people (no wagon at all) and his idea that Sorsha might be also bad is valid, but he forgets that Ubza is a vicious chaos-maker. Why get rid of second wagons instead of creating an unexpected death? What's the point of questioning his actions, apart from the Sorsha link? Is there a slight chance? Sure, if Ubzargan had to derail a lynch in which his teammates were first and second wagon, his team was in pretty dire shit that day. Otherwise, I'm not sure I fully understand this line of questioning.

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4) Aap's D6 contribution gives me pause and I think it adds up to his overall contribution as well, although I'd need to re-read. His posts are just focused on mechanics, speculations (the Speakers being dead because he hasn't sent messages? how are you sure about that? it's an old story, but what if his positions 2-5 aren't messaging?), skeptical about Wilgy WIFOM and something about Ahriman not killing DH? wut? Anyway, I don't see so far how his input aligns with the current topics and leads, so I'm starting to be wary of him.

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5) JJJ seems silenced

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6) nutella's "I'd like to find Bubbles' teammates but I haven't the first clue how." pinged me. it's D6, some of us are doing efforts, so why the resignation?

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7) Wilgy said he'd look into my death. Any finds, bro?
Wilgy also said something about finding out who's poisoned. How can we even begin to know or be able to tell that, right now? What's the significance of this?

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8) The talk about Host Posts containing hints (nutella, aapje) doesn't seem positive to me. LC was clear that we shouldn't look too deep into the story. What's the point to say that LC could still be lying about it or something (aapje, I think)? According to the N5 story, I'd be an Ahriman recruit, but I'm not (I'm unrecruited), so yeah, story is story.

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9) SVS's post about the Executioner not killing her last Night and how that would have proven a point? Huh? What point would him attempting to kill you have proven? What did you mean by this?

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10) LoRab, you've gone back to TH, but do you have any other opinions, suspicions apart from him and me? It's D6, the bad teams are at a standard size; the field is also down to a standard full-game size. Your nod to SVS's case on Bullzeye is pretty mellow, almost as if to tell the thread that you're receptive to others, but not much more than that.

Also, as a general side-note, although this should probably be saved for post-game, I cannot express how much I dislike the "placeholding" vote tactic. Changeable votes are supposed to influence the course of a Day phase, in a way - they can be placed to influence, fish out reactions, shape discussion, make a temporary but clear stand and so on. Parking votes just because of how big the field of players is and unwillingness (or laziness?) to check (or open a separate tab with) "View results" doesn't fit into any of those categories.

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11) SYN WHEN DO YOU START PLAYING. OH CAPS

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12) Sorsha's "someone please do leads for me" pinged me. Sounds like a catch-up comment without any catch-up, thrown in just to please the thread.

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13) Spacedaisy's case seems genuine, but there's a tiny part of me that finds it also sudden. She points out Llama's evolution in addressing Bubbles throughout the game, but during the phases when it worsened, I don't remember her actively questioning him at that time. The last time was D4, when she called Llama reasonable with his activity. Also she suspects Llama for a change of tone in the last Days, but gives the verdict that Llama recruited Bubbles, which is the sort of manual recruitement Bugzybargan could have only done in the early stage. So it's the same "recruiting" dillema: if you suspect Llama's moodchange is due to Bubbles becoming his teammate recently, you can't also say Llama recruited her manually prior in time.

This being said, your post might also influence me to re-read Llama.

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14) Timmer went full jump in on Spacedaisy's Llama. I still don't trust him much, so this post doesn't stick out well to me. Does no one else have an issue with how he alternates between "le analysis man" to "le following others man"?

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15) WIll probably focus on / re-read Bullzeye, Llama, Wilgy, maybe TH, for now.

I'm reading and voting, just haven't been participating much in the thread. To be honest I still don't really understand this game but I'm trying to keep up.

I've been voting for the various Positions and lynches.

[timmer]

@Rico, I feel like I've been pretty up front about the way I'm playing this game Now that we've lost a baddie from Ub's team, I don't want to be recruited to that team, as they are clearly weakened, so it makes sense to actually go after people who might be on that team. In this format, once you're down, you're just not sexy anymore. So yeah, I'll absolutely jump onto a case that shows a possible Ub teammate, there's no hesitation. But when I've got the time to, I'll still pull together my own shit and present it, it's not like this format means people shouldn't try.