STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[bcornett24]

And before brian points out my 'lack of content', I would like to REINFORCE these points:

about 24/29 of the players have not even had 10% of the reads I have made in this game.

I want people to ask themselves, why is brian forcing the 'lack of content' angle when my response to this has consistently been "This is an incorrect scum tell" - It is blatantly not the truth, in any event, that the conduct I'm being accused of is a scum tell for me. I have it thrown at me regularly WHEN I'M CIVILIAN. As I keep saying. I can think of only one time when I've been accused of being bad because I've been quiet, and it has actually been the truth (and it wasn't the truth because I was bad... it was the truth because I was very busy at that time).

And I will repeat what I said to Matt.

Your post about me appears like you have just ISOed me. If that is true, you ought to know that I've given reads on about half of the people in the game, which is significantly more than most other people here.

I'll add you to my scum read list, though. I don't like it when people push this agenda about me, that if I don't pick fights I'm not creating content. I've seen it take me down as a civilian too many times, both back in my RM days and since I've arrived at the Syndicate. People use an incorrect perception of my meta against me. It is something I find inherently suspicious, especially when the basic starting point is that I 'don't have content' when that is plainly untrue.

I did indeed, but I have also, as I just stated read the entire forum nearly twice now. I am not asking you to compile a list of reads if you have any specific concerns off the top of your head right now, that would be great.

By no means am I attempting to force anybody to do anything, people have very low content in general right now which is, from my experience normal for day 0/1 standards.

I agreed with you on the first point, most people have very little content right now.

[bcornett24]

Are you currently civilian golden?

[Golden]

Yeah, I have enough reads to do a rainbow. There are still some null reads in there... like banana (who promised in the signups he would contribute more, I hope that comes to fruition.)

Canuck - reminds me of Roger Rabbit, Bullets over Broadway... making astute observations early, giving her interpretation of what they mean, explaining herself well. That Canuck is one I tend to trust unless/until I have reason to think otherwise.

[Tangrowth]

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

Is indie hunting not a scumtell here? I'm surprised this didn't get that much notice.

I wouldn't say it particularly is; it depends on who you ask.

That said, I know Simon is Epi's kid son, so I don't find his post particularly alarming.

[Golden]

Are you currently civilian golden?

That's an odd way of phrasing that question. Do you have reason to believe things will shift? In case you are trying to dig for some kind of LDable statement (which is how that reads), I will give you one that should work. I am not and (unless I'm missing some mechanic which is outside of my control) will never be aligned with anti-town win conditions.

linki @MP - I don't find Simon's posts alarming either. Boba looks dangerous, I'd call it astute. Interesting that 'indy-hunting' is a scum tell in Savage's mafia world. I agree that it isn't here.

[Tangrowth]

zebra, thanks much for your rainbow list, but consider me incredibly confused by the colors.

I presume we should examine this list by descending order for most town to most mafia reads, instead of the colors?

[Ricochet]

sorry mods couldn't help myself

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

Simon is of the belief an SK should be dealt with asap, whilst his father's thoughts in general on the matter are mneh mafia first

[Bass_the_Clever]

Zebra I feel like you having scum reads on all the low posters is odd. There is so much stuff with people who post a lot and you don't get any kind of scum read from any of them?
This could be a scum tactic to look like he or she is trying to catch scum when really all he or she is doing is throwing shit at low posters who probably aren't around and won't say anything. While she stays in good graces of the high posters.

[a2thezebra]

Now that we've heard from Russ, zebra, how do you feel about his response (and him)?

See my ISO analyses (I know this post came before I finished them), although I do need to go over him again in case I missed anything worth pointing out.

zebra, again, apologies for not responding to this at the time. I just hadn't properly absorbed it and mulled over it for a response.

Here are my thoughts now. I understand you better now. I wasn't thinking about the behavior in terms of specifically crafting a town-minded scenario, rather the lack of a convincing mafia-minded scenario wasn't enough to sway me otherwise. The problem with specifically crafting a town-minded scenario is that townies can act illogically. Nonetheless, I could think of a scenario in which a civilian had not fully thought out their hypothesis, as you termed it, to the point where they decided it made more sense to wait to retract it. I've actually made this exact blunder as a civilian when I aggressively pursued zeek in Doctor Who, only to reveal too soon that my suspicion was fake; it would have made way more sense for my gambit if I had waited much longer to reveal my intentions.

So while I don't immediately think the behavior is townie-minded, I don't struggle to come up with a world in which it is that of a townie. Does that make sense?

It does. And point taken, fair enough.

Spoiler: show

zebra, I was not implying that you suggested policy lynching MM. I did not intend to. I brought up that possibility to the table and was expressing my dislike for that option.

It definitely came across as more the former than the latter, but in time we shall see which one is the truth.

zebra, I can assure you that it was exactly how I described, not attributable to you, since I didn't even mention you in my post. What would be the motive in doing that?

Uh, you did mention me in the post. I am the first word of it. I don't think it's a stretch to assume, at least for me, that its entirety was directed at me about me. And how am I supposed to know what the motive could be? All I'm saying is that I find it odd.

zebra, can you elaborate? Why don't you buy Enrique's explanation?

If there was any specific element or wording for me to point out than I would have initially, but the post as a whole simply comes off as fake and disingenuous to me. Does it not to you?

zebra, I'm a bit confused on this post's relation to your two posts previous. You were discussing how to hunt for the Boba Fett with Simon, then you said to give you a few minutes, and you came up with this. How does this relate to that conversation? (or does it not at all?)

You're the one inventing the idea that it needs to relate to the previous two posts. Why not just the post before it? Or why not the past dozen posts? I was simply sick of having to look through the entire game to find certain ISO's at that point, so I decided to compile them myself. (sorry I fucked yours up!)

[Turnip Head]

sorry mods couldn't help myself

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

Simon is of the belief an SK should be dealt with asap, whilst his father's thoughts in general on the matter are mneh mafia first

Hmm that's odd Rico, I don't recall anyone asking for your input

[a2thezebra]

I'll get to these current posts when I get to them, for now I'm still in the process of typing what I already typed and attempted to post earlier.

[Ricochet]

uhm I meant sorry Hosts*

k bye now

linki:

[bcornett24]

Are you currently civilian golden?

That's an odd way of phrasing that question. Do you have reason to believe things will shift? In case you are trying to dig for some kind of LDable statement (which is how that reads), I will give you one that should work. I am not and (unless I'm missing some mechanic which is outside of my control) will never be aligned with anti-town win conditions.

linki @MP - I don't find Simon's posts alarming either. Boba looks dangerous, I'd call it astute. Interesting that 'indy-hunting' is a scum tell in Savage's mafia world. I agree that it isn't here.

Not really considering your question.

And before brian points out my 'lack of content', I would like to REINFORCE these points:

about 24/29 of the players have not even had 10% of the reads I have made in this game.

I want people to ask themselves, why is brian forcing the 'lack of content' angle when my response to this has consistently been "This is an incorrect scum tell" - It is blatantly not the truth, in any event, that the conduct I'm being accused of is a scum tell for me. I have it thrown at me regularly WHEN I'M CIVILIAN. As I keep saying. I can think of only one time when I've been accused of being bad because I've been quiet, and it has actually been the truth (and it wasn't the truth because I was bad... it was the truth because I was very busy at that time).

[bcornett24]

er statement

[Golden]

It was the word 'currently' that I found odd.

[Golden]

Oh but I get it now, you mean 'in this game'.

[Black Rock]

Black Rock

I started page 10, so almost caught up. I have to pick up LC and then he'll take over the computer for that other game. I'll have to finish catch up later.

I do want to revisit this quote.

So if MM can get away with anything how are we supposed to catch him if he is scum? Again I ask, if his actions are meta-proof, what is his normal scum behavior?

Now that I'm not joking around, I went back to this point to continue my catch up and when I read it again, what are you asking here. Why are you pushing it so much?

So you're almost caught up right here (yet you haven't posted anything since) and the only thing you have to offer is a proposition of the idea that I was exaggerating how strange it is that everyone was letting MM's early vote slide when MM himself agrees with me and claims to have done that for the purpose of gauging reactions? Wow. GTH right now I think you are:

SCUM

Was that the response to my question? Maybe you should read my post again.

What is it that makes me scum again? The fact that I was wondering what answer would make you happy or that I have been busy since this post?

(yet you haven't posted anything since)

I have to pick up LC and then he'll take over the computer for that other game.

Then I went to bed, then I went to work. Before you tell someone to go to Hell, slow down on your conclusions and answer the damn question.

[Golden]

gth in this context is gun to head not go to hell.

[Black Rock]

gth in this context is gun to head not go to hell.

Fuck me, all these new terms are throwing me off. I was all insulted.

[Tangrowth]

Woah, so I feel like I need to go /cheerleader JJJ for a moment here. There's a lot of really intense back and forth between zebra, Mac, Matt F, and others throughout this catchup and it feels like the vibe of the thread in general is really being taken down.

I just want to say I appreciate the efforts made by many here to contribute to this game, and I look forward to hearing more particularly from those who haven't expressed much of any opinion yet.

I know there's been a lot of content, and much of it has been emotionally-charged. It can be inevitable due to the nature of the game, especially since we have some impassioned players among our roster. I think this should be encouraged and analyzed, and we should be careful about shutting each other down intentionally or unintentionally, even if we staunchly disagree with each other.

Mac, I incredibly appreciate what you've been doing, despite the fact that I've been on the receiving end of a good portion of it. :P For the sake of the game, please don't stop. That goes for everyone else contributing in their own way. Not everyone plays the game the same way... something I've struggled with in playing the game previously.

I think our chances of winning this game will plummet if players become unmotivated and stop working to catch the mafia. So let's please not let that happen.

[bcornett24]

gth in this context is gun to head not go to hell.

lol that is awesome

[Black Rock]

Can one of the hosts fix my language as well. I forgot not to swear.

[Black Rock]

gth in this context is gun to head not go to hell.

lol that is awesome

More embarrassing...

[Tangrowth]

Nothing has done anything to sway my perception of everything I raised towards MP. He's explained it in a way that rationalises it as reasonable behaviour, which he would do anyway. Disagree if you like, is normal, most people read my scum cases as jibberish because it's different.

Mac, what concerns do you still have for me that you feel have not been adequately addressed?

[Turnip Head]

it feels like the vibe of the thread in general is really being taken down.

It only takes a few pictures of cute baby animals (and remembering that it's not personal it's mafia) to bring the vibe back up

[Black Rock]

Do you think baby animal pictures will make people forget I was stupid?

[Golden]

I've actually felt the vibe is generally been ok in this game.

But, never mind the cute baby animals, my 'fun vibe' in this game will continue to be Star Wars memes.

Like this:



(No, thats not a role hint)

[Turnip Head]

Do you think baby animal pictures will make people forget I was stupid?

Couldn't hurt.

[Black Rock]

Enrique

I am so done with these after finishing Matt's ISO. But nevertheless, I must move forward!

I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

Sooooo this is a horse that's been beaten to death already. I have nothing to say about it that hasn't already been said, so I'll just say again that I am not convinced by Enrique's most recent responses attempting to explain his position with this. In fact, I actually wasn't that pinged by it until he explained it, because his explanation came off as fake. But I'll get to that in a bit.

thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

From this point almost 24 hours ago all the way to now, Enrique has been doing nothing but explaining himself and re-explaining himself and being defensive and being over-defensive. It just looks really bad. Maybe when he starts talking about something other than other people's thoughts on him I'll be more comfortable with his alignment, but as of right now, GTH, based on his ISO I would say he looks like:

SCUM

I actually agree with this read though. Some of his early posts have reminded me of his baddie game.

[Tangrowth]

Response to Enrique:

Spoiler: show

I'm not even all that busy, but I do feel slightly overwhelmed by the size of this game. I've read pretty much everything as it was posted, but a lot of it has just straight flown over my head, and I'm especially having trouble keeping track of who says what. MP makes a good point that I'm not offering much of anything right now, and he's completely right, I'm still adjusting to the pace. I appreciate Zebra's ISOs/GTHs (I have no idea what those acronyms mean but she keeps using them so one of them is probably right and I have a slightly better grasp on the game after reading them.

So a few quick thoughts (MP made a post with a bunch of different points to address but oh jeez give me a few minutes to even feel like reading it):

sig approached my Tattooine posts from two completely different angles before and after people were talking about it. His original response was:

It could also favor the Hutts, but we might just be overthinking it.

So it stands that he doesn't think my question is too out there and he's being helpful, suggesting that maybe we're just oblivious, right? Then Mac calls me scum, then this happens:

I don't think enrique vote for Yavin is suspicious.
Though this

I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

The Hutts aren't independent and are based on Tattooine so I find this interesting.

Bro... you had my back... just a minute ago. If you found it straight sus from the beginning, then fair enough, but how do you go and pull a 180 the moment somebody else mentions my name? Now, his post is not especially accusatory, he's very careful with his words ("I find this interesting") but the implication is right there and it bothers me that he was so quick to jump on it like that.

One more thing I'm not all that comfortable with is the "let's go to the baddie option to find out their plans" rhetoric. Like, um, excuse me? That's never been a thing like that in Mafia, has there? Or at least I don't remember it from my days. The baddie option benefits the baddies and that's that. Matt's push for the Death Star was especially disconcerting, but my first real "what the fuck did he just say that" moment was when Russ suggested Tattooine was a good option "to find out Jabba's plans." Huh? It's hard to think a Hutt would be so upfront about wanting to go to Jabba's lair, but I certainly didn't read that and think "damn, Russ, that's some fine civvie logic!" There's many valid reasons why people might've voted Tattooine, the one I remember reading the most being "because that's where the movies started," but jeez how do you expect me to trust someone whose vote is founded on it being the baddie option?

This is also a thing that gets me, about people voting Alderaan because "it sounds the nicest." What the fuck, dude, maybe it's more exciting or something, but people complained there wasn't a single bad thing to say about Yavin and you vote for a planet that's only famous for blowing up and killing everyone in it? Day 0 logic is some weird shit.

Oh yeah and Matt definitely had some sort of info. He was pushing it so far down our throats I can't even tell what his goal was, and he can keep denying it but he definitely knew something or he wouldn't have been so damn persistent. It's not like anyone was going to forget after the day was over. There had to be a reason.

Okay, wowie, now to figure everything else out and stop skimming the longer posts.

First off, Enrique and anyone else who is wondering, ISO is short for isolation, and it means looking at just one player's posts in isolation, away from the context within the thread. If you click someone's "In Topic" button on their posts, it will take you to their ISO page. GTH = gun to head, which just means making an evaluation as to whether you think someone is civilian or mafia based on a "gut" 'I have to decide right now or I'm dead' mentality.

If you believe Matt F had information, what is his motive in denying it? How does that influence your read of him?

Enrique, I appreciate your attempt to get more involved here, but I'm still left wondering what you think about anyone in terms of civilian v. mafia. Help me out here.

Oh, wait...

Spoiler: show

MovingPictures, I'm gonna be honest, your post is a bit of a nightmare to read, never mind quote. Even your response to Mac is harsh on the eyes. I'm not saying I'm the best formatter, but... enough about that, let's actually address the content:

I'm still lost as to bcornett24's post here. Can either he or someone explain to me why this is a very anti-town statement?

This post of Enrique's actually pings me a bit because he immediately expresses agreement with bcornett that he found it pretty odd, yet doesn't indicate any gut evaluation of Russ from it; nor did he mention this earlier when I wanted opinions on Russ.

I barely understand anything in this game, and that post still jumped out at me. It kinda baffles me that you refuse to see it. Nothing about Russ' post reads "civvie" in any way to me. It's just plain confusing. My gut evaluation is that he tried to get away with shitty logic because it fit his agenda, whatever that may be.

I'm sorry I didn't reply to your specific post asking about Russ. Honestly I didn't even remember making my post until I saw somebody else quote it. I'm somewhere else at the moment. I'm keeping up by reading the thread but I'm not digesting this game like I should.

I'm not sold on any of your responses to Mac either. Everything he's accusing you of doing, you're doing right there, and I tend to agree with points such as you not trying to bring it too hard on Russ especially when you're still turning a blind eye to the part of his post that bothers everyone else.

I don't like this post at all. Maybe I'm just biased against all those spoiler tags but I'm not too impressed by the content either. It's like you made it intentionally hard to read. (or maybe i'll feel better about it when i pick up by adhd prescription tomorrow, ahh)

Now, the fact that Enrique didn't explain that until subsequent to your case is another story.

Enrique, all of this seems rather dismissive. Regarding the underlined, why shouldn't you have to defend yourself? Isn't that the point of mafia to accuse others and be accused, no matter what the accusation?

No, see, that's the thing. I never felt like there was anything to defend in my vote at all. I still think it's a silly thing to focus on. I voted for what I perceived as the civvie option. That's my whole explanation! What else did you want me to say before Mac made his accusations? I don't get it.

zebra, I'm a bit confused on this post's relation to your two posts previous. You were discussing how to hunt for the Boba Fett with Simon, then you said to give you a few minutes, and you came up with this. How does this relate to that conversation? (or does it not at all?)

This is another silly thing to pick on. I see a lot of resistance to Zebra's ISOs, but why wouldn't you add that to the conversation? It's incredibly convenient and helpful, and I'm pretty sure I've done stuff like that before simply because it's an useful tool. I appreciate it for sure.

I don't know, Alex. IIRC I've been really bad at reading you in the past, but as for this game right now, I don't trust you. Nothing you're saying feels right to me and I'm definitely gonna keep an eye out.

You don't like my formatting, good to know. How can I improve it? Did you prefer my posts over the past hour or so now that I made in chunks as I caught up versus my giant one last night?

Enrique, consider me frustrated right now. I keep asking people what bcornett24 means in his post, you even quote my post here asking everyone, and you're baffled that I can't see it, yet you still refuse to explain it to me. I don't get it. Help me out.

Why do you think I made the post intentionally hard to read? Doesn't that have to do with the formatting more so than the content? You say you don't like the content either, but you provide no substantive reasons. Can you elaborate?

Regarding what you quoted at the bottom, I was NOT picking on zebra, let's make that clear. I was merely confused and was asking a question for clarification.

Why don't you trust me? You qualify your read with a sentence here that you historically can't read me well, then you say nothing reads "right". That's not substantive, and you provided a potential out if I ever flip civilian when/if I am lynched. Consider me unimpressed and pinged.

[nijuukyugou]

I always forget, to my chagrin, how quickly full game threads fill up with pages

Catching up; stand by.

[Golden]

Red Four, standing by.

Also standing by for Brian's case... promised an hour ago, two hours till the day ends. I'm getting concerned that it could lead to a day end bandwagon on me without me having any real opportunity to respond, especially as a chunk of that I'm not at my computer.

[Tangrowth]

I've got to tell you guys, I feel so far out of my depth right now. From my limited experience, what passes for evidence this early on in Mafia games is often little more than a combination of bravado and overactive imagination. All I can see is some particularly harsh accusations being thrown around by some VERY enthusiastic players. I have been around long enough not to mistake aggressiveness in these games with Mafia guilt so a couple of feuding prominent players (at this stage of the game) doesn't convince me that one is necessarily Mafia. From what I've read, Golden seems to make a lot of sense to me...

Like I said, I'm having a lot of trouble trying to follow you guys...

Glorfindel, as with Savage, you're new to many of the players here. This means your evaluations won't be blinded by town or mafia-colored glasses due to past experience, this cumulative thing we call meta.

I can understand fully that you feel lost; I know how it is playing on foreign sites in talkative games where you know no one. It's pretty tough.

You say Golden makes a lot of sense. How so? On which points?

Any non-Golden related thoughts?

[Tangrowth]

I've got to tell you guys, I feel so far out of my depth right now. From my limited experience, what passes for evidence this early on in Mafia games is often little more than a combination of bravado and overactive imagination. All I can see is some particularly harsh accusations being thrown around by some VERY enthusiastic players. I have been around long enough not to mistake aggressiveness in these games with Mafia guilt so a couple of feuding prominent players (at this stage of the game) doesn't convince me that one is necessarily Mafia. From what I've read, Golden seems to make a lot of sense to me...

Like I said, I'm having a lot of trouble trying to follow you guys...

You're not wrong, Glorfindel, this is an unusually heated Day 1, and I haven't been able to follow along just yet either. I will have no access to Mafia again until after the poll ends, and I haven't been able to immerse myself in the ongoing saga here, so I'll just vote BR because she's busy hosting another game.

GTH evaluation of this post (and DFaraday in general):

What is it, folks? I'm curious.

[Golden]

Hey, MP... two hours left, and I'm feeling crunched for time (I may have to dash off at any moment)...

Rainbow time?

[Golden]

Oh, one thought I had earlier but didn't express.

I didn't find it pingworthy that sig made a comment on the same post twice. If anything, I found it made it more genuine that he found that post concerning - he sort of expressed the same thought two different ways and I thought it was an astute point. I could see myself commenting on the same thing twice if I forgot I had the first time.

[Tangrowth]

Every single one of your isos has read disingenuous to me, without exception. They feel like false reads for the sake of looking town. Even your town read on me feels like a way for you to pick a fight with me.

I'm pretty much getting the same impression. Matt was saying nothing useful before Zebra pointed that out, and then he suddenly changed from "OT posts only" to "let's make ISOs on EVERYONE", with some ISOs being somewhat half-assed. You seem more wrried about day 0 votes than any other aspect of the game, and like I said, I see that as a waste of time.

If you wanna contribute, you don't have to do it because people are demanding you to, and you don't have to go full supatown and flood the thread with opinions on EVERYONE if you don't want to. You just help with whatever you can, whenever you can.

Gut evaluation of Matt F's content he provided was disingenuous for me as well. To be fair, though, I can still rationalize a scenario in which Matt F is a civilian, hasn't been able to get his head in the game, was genuinely pushing Death Star to have fun, and then tried providing content but failed to deliver anything groundbreaking.

Also I underlined a portion of DDL's post I 100% agree with.

[Golden]

I missed that line by DDL but it expresses what I've been trying to say to both Matt and brian beautifully. He also expresses what I believe I have done to date - contributed to a lot of things... as and when I've felt it is appropriate to do so.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Alright, I've got about 12 minutes, and then I'll be back about 2 hours after that if there are any responses.

Enrique - I look forward to endgame when you find out that I most definitely did not have any info whatsoever.

Dom - Really? I get pinged because my contributions have been "nothing useful", and now you vote for me because I dared to contribute? Haha when I flip, I hope peeps look at you first. What did you think of the few ISO's I made, whether they were a stupid endeavor or not? I'm an easy effin' lynch thanks to Zebra, and you just throwing your vote on me without even giving me a chance to respond earns you an

Dragon - Again, so...If I don't contribute, I get sussed by folks, if I do contribute, I get sussed by people. Peachy.

Mac - You make me feel bad when you say "Matt fuckin' F of all people"

sig - Please when you can be bothered to read the thread, answer my question.

Zebra - If you don't want to answer my questions, fine. If it's too hard for you to put these supposed answers you've already given me in a nice simple post, then wow. Can you at least take each of my three questions, and direct me to which of your already 100 posts I can find those answers in? No? I'm guessing not.

Someone said I was doing half assed ISO's (Dom maybe?), please elaborate.

Golden - Whenever you get a chance, please give me specific examples where you think my ISOs have all been disingenuous. Again, NONE of them were so this should be fun.

MP - I think you said you'd be busy today, but again, please answer my question to you when you get a chance (and whether I'm dead or not). Thanks!

Right now without even rereading Dom, I know he came in here and threw a vote on Alderaan w/o explanation, and now threw a vote on me without even giving me a chance to respond. Eff that, if Zebra gets her wish and I'm lynched today, look at Dom first (but yeah, keep a close eye on Zebra and Golden too if they don't answer my questions)

Alright, it's about 5 till noon my time, I should be back around 2:30, 3. Peeps, I am not Mafia. I did NOT have info. If I don't contribute, I'm bad in some people's eyes, if I do contribute, I'm bad again. Wtf really?

Matt F, does this mean you suspect Dom, and does it mean he is your top mafia read?

Would you be able to provide any town/mafia evaluations when you return, and talk about where you think you'll be voting today?

[Elohcin]

Simon

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

We should ask them. Russ, are you Boba Fett?

I'm still curious as to why Russ was singled out here. There are many possibilities, but I am not waiting for Simon to clarify to finish these damn ISO analyses right now, so even though a clarification could easily change it, my current GTH of Simon based on this post alone is:

SCUM

I interrupt your Simon suspicions to remind you that Simon is eight years old. Thank you for listening.

Now, as I finished my second page of reading out of three, I reach the bottom of the page and see three more pages to read. I spent my day at the dentist's office, working, and schooling. I soon have to eat dinner and then I have a fitness class. I know I will not catch up, but I am going to get as far as possible before I vote. I'm not voting anyone who has been contributing a lot b/c as I have said before, I think the majority of the baddies are lying low.

[Black Rock]

I've got to tell you guys, I feel so far out of my depth right now. From my limited experience, what passes for evidence this early on in Mafia games is often little more than a combination of bravado and overactive imagination. All I can see is some particularly harsh accusations being thrown around by some VERY enthusiastic players. I have been around long enough not to mistake aggressiveness in these games with Mafia guilt so a couple of feuding prominent players (at this stage of the game) doesn't convince me that one is necessarily Mafia. From what I've read, Golden seems to make a lot of sense to me...

Like I said, I'm having a lot of trouble trying to follow you guys...

You're not wrong, Glorfindel, this is an unusually heated Day 1, and I haven't been able to follow along just yet either. I will have no access to Mafia again until after the poll ends, and I haven't been able to immerse myself in the ongoing saga here, so I'll just vote BR because she's busy hosting another game.

GTH evaluation of this post (and DFaraday in general):

What is it, folks? I'm curious.

I was just going to look for his vote post because I noticed he voted my way. Rude! I am barely hosting. I'm more of the fill in when LC is busy.

Gun to head, this post is a cop out. Not very town-like.

[bcornett24]

Yeah, I'll invite anyone to look at that, and note the various points I made on Russti, MP, Mac, Zebra.... others too... and the things that weren't specific reads but contributing to solving game mechanics, before those 'last three posts'

I do not believe anyone can possibly read my iso and genuinely call that a 'lack of content'. I guess you are in the zebra camp where if you don't care about the specific thing being talked about, it isn't in any way someone trying to contribute to solving the game. The fact you doubled down on it has you shooting to the top of my suspect list. The golden 'lack of content' case is always bullsuit, it gets rolled out far too often, and it frankly pisses me off. I'm not under any obligation to write 200 posts in the first day phase going at someone aggressively. There is no greater discouragement to trying to help the town than behaving like a good member of the town and being told you don't have content, when about 24/29 of the players have not even had 10% of the reads I have made in this game.

It's taking every ounce of my control not to just vote for you and be done with the vote for today.

I do not think your case on me is truthful. So, people want me to pick a fight? Bcornett has one coming. Read my iso people, go ahead. Look at what bullsuit it is that I have no content.

You are way to defensive for what I said. I have never seen a golden who is scared he is going to be lynched because of too much content as a civ? Even if you have been in the recent past, even in more than one game, that is a bullshit excuse, and illogical. As you stated in your argument with zebra content is useful as it allows reads. I've have been lynched on day 1-2 in 2/6 of the games ive played thus far. That hasn't stopped me from posting. (Thanfully this day 0/1 fell on my weekend so I have had more time to participate.)

So here we go...detail iso

Consider me slightly pinged that you are slightly pinged.

Consider me slightly pinged that you are slightly pinged that he is slightly pinged.

Oh, who am I kidding. I'm just slightly pinged because you are zebra

My experience of DDL is that he always seems suspicious early on. I thought he was bad day one in economics and he wasn't.

You do make a meta statement about DDL though which was useful.

This statement is followed with a short discussion with Zebra about DDL.

I've never played with him before (either that or it's been far too long) so does he normally make a suggestion and then proceed to shoot down that very suggestion in the same post?

Umm, I'm not sure I can speak to his precise tendencies. Just that I have found he picks up suspicion early in every game, no matter his affiliation. Kind of like sig in this way.

Btw MP, any rainbow lists yet?

Not yet, still trying to make sense of the thread, but I'm sure I'll force myself to make one before Day 1 ends.

He will force himself. Get it??

@MP - if its worth anything, I don't share your suspicion on russti. It's consistent with the way I think to express a ping on someone when I see behaviour that I find odd, even if I feel like 'I'm not sure if it is civ or bad'. For me, the most accurate definition of what I would say I mean by 'ping' is 'I found something you did odd and so now I'm paying attention to you'.

When I see behaviour that I don't think is civ (ie I feel like 'that must be bad') I'm not nearly as likely to describe it as a ping. I only really use ping when I can also see the potential civilian perspective.

Golden doesn't agree with MP's suspicion of Russ.
Golden then talks about what a ping is.

Regarding Mac's case on MP, I think while it may have some substance to it most of it is just pointing out differences between Mac's and MP's play style. I haven't seen MP do anything yet that has struck me as opportunistic or disingenuous, and I think Mac's case against Enrique is much more convincing.

This is interesting to me, for a few reasons.
1) re: Mac's playstyle. Have you played with Mac a lot before? I've only played with him in World Reborn, and I was not super attentive in that game, but the Mac that I encountered there was NOTHING like this Mac so far (who is reading to me as calm, reasoned, and analytical). Which of these two Jekyll/Hyde sides of Mac is the "real" style, in your opinion? In what way do you see his playstyle as differing form MP's?
2) I didn't read Mac's case on MP (which I thought was good, since I almost always accuse MP of being too hedgey/non-committal, usually on Day 1 ) as accusing him of being "opportunistic" or "disingenuous", but of being overly cautious, non-committal, and wibbly-wobbly (technical term). If you don't agree with Mac's case on "opportunistic and disingenuous" grounds, do you agree with it on "wibbly-wobbly and over-cautious" grounds?

My take on Mac so far is that he is Jekyll and Hyde, but that it's not like 'Jekyll is civvie'. I think he is like some other players you and I have played with a lot (the rabbits and dutchies of this world) who take joy in mixing up their calm and chaos, even when civ, to preserve their game better when they do roll bad.

here you do provide a legitimate read on Mac's play style.

Also has everyone forgotten that MM has already voted? Am I the only one that is extremely bothered by that? Even Mac doesn't seem to care.

It's hard to be bothered by MM's normal civilian behaviour.

Statement about MM's normal play-style.

This next part I had to take into context otherwise it makes no sense nor would it be a fair read so I'm putting it inside a spoiler tag. This is Golden and Mac talking about MM

Spoiler: show

Also has everyone forgotten that MM has already voted? Am I the only one that is extremely bothered by that? Even Mac doesn't seem to care.

It's hard to be bothered by MM's normal civilian behaviour.

Initially I assumed it was a joke vote and that he hadn't noticed that there were no vote changes, but...

Votes are not changeable in this poll.

So actually what the hell did you vote for me for Metalmarsh?

If he had managed to explain a thought process behind this switch, that'd be one thing, but the kicker is that he has failed to address your suspicion whatsoever.

I'm not sold, but I'm listening. I'd like to hear Enrique address your thoughts.

What do you think this was (from before your post):

thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

Whether the truth or not, it definitely is a 'thought process behind the switch'.

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

MP was referencing enrique's initial reactions to my initial suspicions and his lack of response to them, anything that enrique said subsequent was not on the table.

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

MP was referencing enrique's initial reactions to my initial suspicions and his lack of response to them, anything that enrique said subsequent was not on the table.

Nope, I had the context exactly right. MP said he found Enrique suspicious because 'he hadn't given a thought process behind his change in view' when in fact Enrique had. The fact that MP said that in the context of also responding to other posts is not important. It demonstrated to me that MP's suspicion was based on the fact he had missed Enrique's post, and if anything was being swayed by posts from you saying Enrique hadn't responded... even though Enrique subsequently did.

@zebra - nope. Marmot can pretty much get away with anything. He went through a period of being lynched day one over and over and over and basically always flipping civ. So, now we recognise that it isn't alignment-related behaviour. It's just him.

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

MP was referencing enrique's initial reactions to my initial suspicions and his lack of response to them, anything that enrique said subsequent was not on the table.

Nope, I had the context exactly right. MP said he found Enrique suspicious because 'he hadn't given a thought process behind his change in view' when in fact Enrique had. The fact that MP said that in the context of also responding to other posts is not important. It demonstrated to me that MP's suspicion was based on the fact he had missed Enrique's post, and if anything was being swayed by posts from you saying Enrique hadn't responded... even though Enrique subsequently did.

@zebra - nope. Marmot can pretty much get away with anything. He went through a period of being lynched day one over and over and over and basically always flipping civ. So, now we recognise that it isn't alignment-related behaviour. It's just him.

No, you didn't. He was referring to his lack of reaction to the suspicion initially, not subsequently. He quoted a post that I had made before enrique had responded. The fact that MP himself didn't defend himself with this very easily raised refute to your point indicates that he doesn't want to play with you in the thread Golden.

Thanks for your psychoanalysis of MP, Mac. Lets see which of these is most likely to be true. Occam's Razor time.

1) MP claimed Enrique had never said something that he had said, but he only did it because he was putting it 'in context' and so was able to ignore the fact that Enrique said what MP claimed he did not say. MP fully knew that Enrique HAD said what MP claimed he hadn't, but he went ahead and said it anyway, knowing that you, Mac, would understand the so called 'context' of his post didn't include Enrique's actual response, that he claimed didn't exist. Then, when I pointed this out to him, he said 'thank you' to me, rather than him deciding to clarify that he intended that statement only to be read in context. He said thank you because he, the overlord of engaging people in the thread, and whom I have a very good working relationship with, wouldn't want to engage with me. Just because. But he also asked me for a gth read on you. Because he only wants to engage me a little bit.

2) Or... MP stated his (at the time) current thoughts on Enrique but had missed Enrique's post, and when he said 'thanks for pointing it out' he meant it, because I was helping him figure out where he stood on Enrique (whether it changes his mind or not), while at the same time clearly engaging me by asking me questions.

I dunno, take your pick people.

Firstly, the fact is that I called enrique out on the behaviour on day 0 and enrique did not reply then. The fact that he replied after I elaborated much later does not take away the fact that he did in fact reply to me with dismissive non posts. Yes, I do think it's fair for MP to have suspicion on enrique for an initial reaction without needing to address the subsequent one. The fact that he chose not to say "Golden I was referring to the fact that enrique didn't reply to Mac's initial points" alarms me, because it looks to me like that is entirely what he has done. I was not inferring that he doesn't want to engage with you "just because", I believe he didn't attempt a defense because he is already caught scum for other reasons and chose to take the easy way out and just apologise for his behaviour.

How MP chooses to respond to our conversation is going to be very telling isn't it.

Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.

OK, so now I'll seriously consider a vote on zebra - the so-called champion of throwing stuff out and getting people talking wants to shut down my dispute with Mac. Why?

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

That's a statement which I can only call target painting. Accusing someone of 'taking something out of context' is accusing them of having ulterior motives.

You don't think it is worth talking about how ridiculous that is? I do. Mac isn't merely wrong. He's pushing illogical shit. This should have you writing in caps.

I feel ok about Mac about it, but big ping on you!

Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.

OK, so now I'll seriously consider a vote on zebra - the so-called champion of throwing stuff out and getting people talking wants to shut down my dispute with Mac. Why?

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

That's a statement which I can only call target painting. Accusing someone of 'taking something out of context' is accusing them of having ulterior motives.

You don't think it is worth talking about how ridiculous that is? I do. Mac isn't merely wrong. He's pushing illogical shit. This should have you writing in caps.

I feel ok about Mac about it, but big ping on you!

Okay I don't it's fair to say that it's ridiculous. Firstly, my accusing you of taking it out of context was an accusation of you being at best lazy with your choice of where to start looking into this swathe of content that has been presented since you were last here, yes at worst I am accusing you of having ulterior motives. I'm sorry but I don't see how anything I have said is illogical.

MP quoted and agreed with the point I made that enrique failed to address my suspicions of him on day 0.

You said that was disingenous because enrique addressed subsequent suspicions on day 1.

I think you are the one who is being illogical. I know you are headstrong bordering on bullish Golden but if you fail to see my point then it is another poor reflection on you.

Whoah, whoah. What do you mean 'lazy with my choice of where to start'. If I see ANYONE who I think has missed stuff, I will point it out to them. I was giving MP context for HIS suspicion, because someone having a suspicion for reasons that I see are incorrect is not something I will let stand without me mentioning it. Thats the opposite of lazy... I could have just let him think he had read the thread properly. I can't see any reason at all for ulterior motives to what I did. Where are you even coming from on that? I was HELPING mp, and you are making out like I'm misrepresenting him... I wasn't even saying anything about MP. I never made out it was disingenuous. You are reading a hell of a lot in to that.

I'm honestly not sure I understand this argument to be honest, though I don't see it as useless mac and golden are clearly butting heads. I think that all content gives information.

The last three posts, before Golden and I started arguing about the merits of his content I will look at in context of looking at Matt F, almost all of his content since then has been directed at myself.

SUMMARY
Golden has several statements regarding DDL's meta
Golden doesn't find Russ to be suspicious
Golden provides a read on Mac's meta responding to Canucklehead's analogy of Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde
Golden provides a read on MM's normal, or abnormal play style
Golden has a long argument with and MaC, Zebra concering the thinking process behind Enrique's vote

Conclusion
Golden has done more than many of the players have thus far.
Upon completion of this ISO golden has added more content than I thought, I had to pull in the entire conversation with Mac and Zebra which I think will possibly count as golden's content, but did not show up in an initial ISO. I think this looks good for golden.
I felt that he didn't meet his own meta that I know and have seen him conform to in other games in regards to content. Which was a slight read for me.
Golden provided a reason for this.

Neutral

[Tangrowth]

So still not sure who to vote for if I don't see any major pings at this point so I'll be holding my vote for the time, though the more I think about Enrique the less I like his posts. I'd like other players thoughts on this.

sig, why is this?

Also, what is your gut evaluation of Glorfindel? You know him, so I'd imagine you have some different input than the rest of us would have.

On that note, DDL, what is your gut evaluation of Savage?

Yes, I'm saying gut evaluation instead of GTH. Just shaking it up a bit. :P

[bcornett24]

I don't necessarily like the content that was generated with Mac and Zebra about Enrique but it is content, and content is what town needs to win the game. It is possible that it will be useful in the future.

[a2thezebra]

First, let me preface this by saying that I actually appreciate all the effort you have just gone to Zebra, quite a lot. It'd be nice if the appreciated was reciprocated when it came to my own efforts....

Pink in line responses.

MacDougall

Let's jump right in.

I haven't voted at all. I was just wondering if there was a reason not to.

You're right, scum would heavily contemplate the potential of such a thing since their numbers are fewer ergo their demise has more of an impact on their team.

Well I see Mac's suspicion of Enrique was less humor-based from the start than I remembered it was...my response to this particular post is pretty much:

huh

That said, when Mac elaborated on his issue with Enrique later I was much more convinced and I think Enrique's responses to it have made him look worse. But I'll get to that when I get to that.

Thanks for analyzing this poll, folks!

I'm voting Alderaan, just to make the poll a bit more interesting, and because some people think it sounds OK. I doubt Epi made the results obvious though, if there are any (besides serving as a mechanic for the role that Golden pointed out).

I'm glad that in our first game together you get to be scum and I get to be civ.

Another bold suspicion from Mac. It also demonstrates why I disagree with Mac's MP suspicion; like I said earlier, he's just not used to MP's play style. If this post pinged him, anything MP says will ping him as well. However, as far as Mac's alignment is concerned, I think this looks good. - Cool, so I guess that gives MP carte blanche to be a scum read for me and get away with it because apparently I'm just wrong. There's nothing unusual about the posts I've called out at all. That's why MP himself apologised and corrected himself on quite a few of my points. Even he, the person I was calling scum could see the value in my suspicions, yet you don't. How weird is that?

Requesting a policy lynch of MattF.

I did not think he was joking when he said this, but since he hasn't bothered Matt since (I think?) I do now. If it were anyone but Mac I would've concluded it was a joke when I first read it anyway.

This is a side issue (read: non-alignment-indicative) that I feel I should point out.

The last thing you want to be doing is identifying a scum player by YOUR ping and telling them to stop what they are doing right? Is what you are criticising Zebra for scummy to you? If so, say so! If not, what is there to gain by telling her to pipe down?

Mac, I think you're one of those people that easily misinterprets a suggestion from another player as some form of censorship, for lack of a better word. I say this because you made a similar accusation to me when I expressed dislike of your later spat with Golden. I did not get the impression from DDL that he was trying to silence me in any sort of way, and as DDL clarified in response to this, I was correct. - One of those people? Like who else? I wasn't wrong about either of you. You both attempted to silence people because you disagreed with their suspicions, or at best vociferously criticised to the point of it coming across like you were intending to get us to stop proceeding on what I feel are valid points. Disagree with me, sure, but the way you've been talking to me, and particularly about me, well tbh it actually hurts my feelings. It makes me feel like you think I am stupid.

You then proceeded to make gargantuan posts on every player with a HUGE colourful stamp on them. Talk about target painting sheesh, and talk about white noise. Half of your HUGE colourful stamps are based on next to no in thread content, and then you you refer to me below as misguided and earlier as distracting in my efforts. Unless you have the most amazing insight into this game, you almost certainly have just painted a huge TOWN sign on scum players and vice versa, with in many cases next to no thread evidence to do so. And you call me misguided and criticise my scum hunting. That's not fair at all.

After that, there's no specific post that I feel is worth noting. - Wow. So of all my posts there are just a couple of worth, the rest are worthless. Cool I'm really keen to put in the time to scum hunt now... I will say overall Mac is coming across as very genuine, and is playing a well-intended but somewhat misguided game. By misguided I mean that a lot of his conclusions seem to be missing crucial factors, and he's been tunneling a few players (Enrique, MP, Golden) pretty badly considering that it's Day 1. I fling shit everywhere, yes, but I try not to bite down on any particular conclusion until I'm certain. But hey, I'll take any attempts at scumhunting over a lurker any day. GTH, I think Mac is:

TOWN

Missing crucial factors. I would like you to point out crucial factors that I have missed, aside from meta that I would have no idea about.

Tunneling, please. I ain't tunneled nobody at all. How can one player tunnel three separate players. I was pinged by enrique, I explored my ping, I drew more out of him. I was pinged by MP, I explored my ping, I drew more out of him. I was pinged by Golden, he went all Golden but the same thing occurred. So scum hunting is just tunneling to you I guess...

Criticising my extremely analytical scum hunting that I actually invested a load of time into and for calling me misguided and telling me my points are missing crucial factors etc, despite my careful analysis of each and every one of them really makes me feel like shit Zebra because I think you are my strongest damn town read right now and this is how you are treating me. And people wonder why most games I just fluff about not saying a whole bunch of anything. When I think of things in a different angle I must be misguided etc. I will tell you time and time again I find scum where nobody else does because of it. So I won't be not doing it. I appreciate the town vote of confidence but your low opinion of my skill really makes me feel unappreciated and pretty much shithouse.

First of all I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm not appreciating your efforts. Why do you think I don't value your opinions just because I disagree with them? That doesn't make any sense.

You were wrong about both me and DDL. DDL clarified in the very next post that you took issue with that he was not attempting to silence me (and that's not what I got from his original post myself) and I said to both you and Golden again and again that I wasn't trying to silence either of you. Just because someone disagrees with you and thinks you should take a step back and try to see what you're saying in a more objective light does not mean that you want them silenced. For fuck's sake, I do not think you are stupid. First of all, given my play style I am in no position to look down on anyone else's or their method of scumhunting. Second, if you feel like I'm singling you out to criticize your methods its because as someone who was compared to you and rundontwalk in my first games on RYM, I have been seeing actions of yours in this game that remind me very much of my own mistakes. And I very well could be wrong, but that doesn't mean I should refrain from expressing how I feel about it. Why are you taking advice so harshly? Not just with me towards you, but also at DDL towards me and MP earlier towards me. Not everything has to be seen as belittling or condescending. I welcome any advice whether I agree with it or not, I don't have to be insulted by it. And I take no issue with your criticism (as well as anyone else's) of my Day 1 ISO analyses. It's perfectly fair for me to criticize any other player for any reason because I fully accept any criticism for my own actions. You don't have to think my reads are helpful and I don't have to think that you and Golden's confrontation earlier was helpful. It's fine for us to express these opinions and it certainly doesn't have to be a big deal.

And worthless? Really? I quoted four posts from you. That's more than most of the other players of my ISO analyses! Are you seriously implying that every single post that I didn't quote or comment on during my ISO analyses is worthless to me? Just because I don't have anything to add to any given post doesn't mean I think it's fucking worthless. Come on. And that's poor wording on my part; it's not that I think you're missing crucial factors, it's more like I think you're not looking at your reads objectively enough. That's all, and I very well could be wrong. And I can say from personal experience that it most certainly is possible to tunnel three (or more) separate players at once. Yet again I will say that I'm not criticizing you for providing content. On the contrary, I am extremely grateful for your interactions with Enrique, MP, and yes, even Golden. But in each case, yes, I do think you are tunneling all three of them to an extent. I'm not sure how many times I will have to say this for you to accept it, but just in case, THAT DOES NOT MEAN STOP TALKING TO THEM. That does not mean stop scumhunting. And you don't have to agree with me that you are tunneling or even listen to me. But please don't misinterpret me to such an extreme and personal extent.

I am not treating you in any connotative way, don't try to guilt trip me. I am sorry if I offended you but you must understand that literally nothing I say in any mafia game ever is meant to be taken personally. The last thing I would want for anyone is to make them feel like shit, that could not be farther from the reason I play these games. Want to know what makes me sometimes fluff about and not say a whole bunch of anything? When I feel like if I do say anything worthwhile people will get offended because I somehow come off as demeaning. That is NEVER my intent, so please don't anything I say that way. If you have no choice, then don't even read my posts. Seriously, I don't like being ignored but I'll take that over being misinterpreted to the point where I hurt someone's feelings any fucking day. You of all people, as an aggressive and outspoken player, should know that just because someone is being vocal and confrontational does not mean anything personal. This is a game of deceit for crying out loud, if it's ever taken personally than everyone playing might as well be fucked.

Golden

Nothing sticks out really, but he seems more playful then usual so far. Typically at around this time, if civ, Golden is picking a fight with another civ. Why hasn't that happened yet Golden?

linki - How nice, another reason to make my read more confident. Why are you so certain that Golden hasn't already picked a fight with another civ, Matt? Could this be a scumslip that Mac is your teammate?

Whoa whoa fucking whoa. Don't be talking like that jack. Golden picked fights with more than just me. Nah fuck that I ain't having it. Don't be chaining me to Matt fucking F of all people.

See this is what I'm talking about Mac. For someone more than capable of getting pretty damn offended it's just baffling that you would immediately go on to say something like "Matt fucking F of all people". Do you not think that could be misinterpreted as rude and personal but another player just saying that they think you are misguided somehow is?

I think the point was worth discussing. You didn't.

Is there a third option for who gives a shit? You guys are going back-and-forth about an issue that boils down to insignificant nonsense regardless of which one of you is right.

How is exploring intention behind in thread play insignificant nonsense Zebra?

But the disagreement has no effect on the intention. The disagreement is about what a post was referring to, and either way you interpret it the intention is the same: undefined.

So because the intention behind MP's post is undefined we shouldn't discuss our perceived reasons for it. Okay shut up shop kids this game is over. How in the world are we supposed to find scum if we don't analyse the intention behind posts? Like, is that not the actual point of the entire process?

Why do I even have to explain to you, someone who believes that myself and Golden are both civs, that what we were doing was scum hunting. If you don't see the value you in it then just say so and move on. Don't tell us it's pointless, we disagree. We play differently to you. Get over it. Us three have come to loggerheads too many times for this. There are differences in the way we approach the game. We all have talent for finding scum. We do it differently. Leave me to mine thanks.

You are completely misinterpreting what I said in every conceivable way. If I felt the intention was actually being analyzed than I would obviously have no problem with the discussion between you two. My exact problem with the discussion was that you two weren't discussing the intention; to me you two seemed to be harping over a small detail that could only be a complete non-sequiter to MP's intentions, and because you two interpreted that differently you got more and more heated just for not seeing eye to eye. I say this because Golden and I have been through the exact same thing and that conversation looked exactly like it. And what's funny is that I did just try to say that I didn't see the value in it and move on, but I couldn't because both of you immediately began interrogating me for not seeing the value in it. Do you not see how hypocritical that is? How is it that you recognize that there are differences in the way we approach the game but you can't seem to allow me to play the game how I play it? What you are accusing me of doing is the exact thing both you and Golden were doing by telling me what I should and shouldn't say.

I am playing differently in this game to the other games I have played on TS so far, so far, because I initially felt like trying hard, but I was basically told I suck so I maybe I'll just go back to being a dick to people.

Mac, there is no possible way anything I have said could justifiably be interpreted as saying that you suck. Again, I'm sorry that you feel that way but I can't and won't change up my play style just because it's being taken too seriously. I hope you understand.

[bcornett24]

I've actually felt the vibe is generally been ok in this game.

But, never mind the cute baby animals, my 'fun vibe' in this game will continue to be Star Wars memes.

Like this:



(No, thats not a role hint)

lol, love it

[Tangrowth]

Yeah, I have enough reads to do a rainbow. There are still some null reads in there... like banana (who promised in the signups he would contribute more, I hope that comes to fruition.)

Canuck - reminds me of Roger Rabbit, Bullets over Broadway... making astute observations early, giving her interpretation of what they mean, explaining herself well. That Canuck is one I tend to trust unless/until I have reason to think otherwise.

Thanks for elaborating re: Canuck.

What do you make of Bass right now? I feel like you might have said something about him, but I can't recall.

On that note, going to start working on my ISO of your posts as well.

[Golden]

You are way to defensive for what I said. I have never seen a golden who is scared he is going to be lynched because of too much content as a civ? Even if you have been in the recent past, even in more than one game, that is a bullshit excuse, and illogical. As you stated in your argument with zebra content is useful as it allows reads. I've have been lynched on day 1-2 in 2/6 of the games ive played thus far. That hasn't stopped me from posting. (Thanfully this day 0/1 fell on my weekend so I have had more time to participate.)

I'm not 'afraid to post content'.

But if I put my absolute full 'supatown golden' into every game from day one, two things will happen.

1) People will like me less, because it can be quite an abrasive style for some people and I make a concerted effort not to do it too often, only when I feel very confident and;
2) I'll burn out.

I'm heading into a short mafia break after this game to stay fresh, and I only signed up for this one very late because I couldn't resist the theme. But I have no intention of playing this game at 100% intensity. I'm still committed to providing quality content, just hopefully in a less intense way. I need this for me.

I appreciate you doing the iso and realising that I've been providing content all game. You didn't need to change your perspective, you could have pursued it, so that is a positive in my book.

[Tangrowth]

Zebra I feel like you having scum reads on all the low posters is odd. There is so much stuff with people who post a lot and you don't get any kind of scum read from any of them?
This could be a scum tactic to look like he or she is trying to catch scum when really all he or she is doing is throwing shit at low posters who probably aren't around and won't say anything. While she stays in good graces of the high posters.

Bass, let's talk about this.

You do note this could be a mafia tactic. Do you think that is what zebra is doing? If so, would you consider voting for her today?

What are your other thoughts at the moment?

[Golden]

And I'm not scared of being lynched for posting content. I'm scared of being lynched for being wrongly accused of not posting content. Because it is quite literally the most common reason I get lynched, it has happened to me again and again. Believe me when I say it is something people think must be a scum tell for me, and it is not. My civ meta is not all on, all the time. It just sometimes gets perceived that way because those games where I am 'all on' tend to be the ones where people remember me.

Also, I think the only time you've seen me as bad, when I was going after you for day upon day, I was 'all on' and creating content anyway. It was partly the content I set out to create that got sleepy and seaside lynched behind me and helped Diiny to the win.

So next time that you think my content level is suspicious, remember that, and don't be fooled by others claiming it's a golden scum tell! It's something that too many people forget.