STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Roxy]

I hate doing this but I randomed my vote from people I mentioned in my previous post and got Matt.
Sorry nothing personal but rl has its demands atm.

[Golden]

There was one thing that made me feel a bit better about Matt (that he could be a civilian muddling his way through). It's when I said I suspected him because I found all of his isos disingenuous and he claimed it would be interesting for me to express exactly how, because 'none of them were'. That sounds like the uber-confident civvie Matt I'm used to.

[Tangrowth]

Responses to zebra:

Now that we've heard from Russ, zebra, how do you feel about his response (and him)?

See my ISO analyses (I know this post came before I finished them), although I do need to go over him again in case I missed anything worth pointing out.

Indeed, saw your ISO now. Let me know if you have new thoughts.

zebra, again, apologies for not responding to this at the time. I just hadn't properly absorbed it and mulled over it for a response.

Here are my thoughts now. I understand you better now. I wasn't thinking about the behavior in terms of specifically crafting a town-minded scenario, rather the lack of a convincing mafia-minded scenario wasn't enough to sway me otherwise. The problem with specifically crafting a town-minded scenario is that townies can act illogically. Nonetheless, I could think of a scenario in which a civilian had not fully thought out their hypothesis, as you termed it, to the point where they decided it made more sense to wait to retract it. I've actually made this exact blunder as a civilian when I aggressively pursued zeek in Doctor Who, only to reveal too soon that my suspicion was fake; it would have made way more sense for my gambit if I had waited much longer to reveal my intentions.

So while I don't immediately think the behavior is townie-minded, I don't struggle to come up with a world in which it is that of a townie. Does that make sense?

It does. And point taken, fair enough.

Spoiler: show

zebra, I was not implying that you suggested policy lynching MM. I did not intend to. I brought up that possibility to the table and was expressing my dislike for that option.

It definitely came across as more the former than the latter, but in time we shall see which one is the truth.

zebra, I can assure you that it was exactly how I described, not attributable to you, since I didn't even mention you in my post. What would be the motive in doing that?

Uh, you did mention me in the post. I am the first word of it. I don't think it's a stretch to assume, at least for me, that its entirety was directed at me about me. And how am I supposed to know what the motive could be? All I'm saying is that I find it odd.

Lol, ignore me, clearly I can't remember what I wrote in my own posts.

That's totally my bad then, I didn't mean to imply that at all.

zebra, can you elaborate? Why don't you buy Enrique's explanation?

If there was any specific element or wording for me to point out than I would have initially, but the post as a whole simply comes off as fake and disingenuous to me. Does it not to you?

Yeah, that's how I feel about it as well, but I wanted to engage you on it specifically for that reason. GTH the content of players I am finding most disingenuous at the moment are MaTT f and Enrique. I'm a bit concerned that this opinion seems to be held by others as well, although perhaps I should be vindicated. I just don't want to lynch someone based on tone, and I don't want to be suffering any sort of groupthink bias, even though I know I came to my own conclusions.

zebra, I'm a bit confused on this post's relation to your two posts previous. You were discussing how to hunt for the Boba Fett with Simon, then you said to give you a few minutes, and you came up with this. How does this relate to that conversation? (or does it not at all?)

You're the one inventing the idea that it needs to relate to the previous two posts. Why not just the post before it? Or why not the past dozen posts? I was simply sick of having to look through the entire game to find certain ISO's at that point, so I decided to compile them myself. (sorry I fucked yours up!)

Oh, haha, thanks for clarifying that then. I was definitely confused!

[bcornett24]

You are way to defensive for what I said. I have never seen a golden who is scared he is going to be lynched because of too much content as a civ? Even if you have been in the recent past, even in more than one game, that is a bullshit excuse, and illogical. As you stated in your argument with zebra content is useful as it allows reads. I've have been lynched on day 1-2 in 2/6 of the games ive played thus far. That hasn't stopped me from posting. (Thanfully this day 0/1 fell on my weekend so I have had more time to participate.)

I'm not 'afraid to post content'.

But if I put my absolute full 'supatown golden' into every game from day one, two things will happen.

1) People will like me less, because it can be quite an abrasive style for some people and I make a concerted effort not to do it too often, only when I feel very confident and;
2) I'll burn out.

I'm heading into a short mafia break after this game to stay fresh, and I only signed up for this one very late because I couldn't resist the theme. But I have no intention of playing this game at 100% intensity. I'm still committed to providing quality content, just hopefully in a less intense way. I need this for me.

I appreciate you doing the iso and realising that I've been providing content all game. You didn't need to change your perspective, you could have pursued it, so that is a positive in my book.

I understand that.
I like to provide content too, which is what I was doing it just happened to be that you were the one who responded.
To be fair, in all of the games I've played, many people take you and JJJ very seriously which is why I like to keep a watch on you guys. If you were perhaps scum you could easily run away with the game.
Keeping things in perspective, it is only day one.

I don't know if I will have time to finish but I still plan on looking at Matt F and Mac before the time is up. I would like to looks at Zebra as well, but she has so much content there is no way I could manage it all in a couple of hours.

[Tangrowth]

I've actually felt the vibe is generally been ok in this game.

But, never mind the cute baby animals, my 'fun vibe' in this game will continue to be Star Wars memes.

Like this:



(No, thats not a role hint)

I didn't mean down vibe as in drama or anything like that. I actually feel it's been OK on that front this game as well. I just know that Mac was starting to feel clearly unappreciated, and I could tell there the disconnect among all of the players who have been posting more was starting to become more and more evident, so I wanted to combat it a bit by saying I appreciate all of the voluntary effort people make into playing this game.

[Tangrowth]

Enrique

I am so done with these after finishing Matt's ISO. But nevertheless, I must move forward!

I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

Sooooo this is a horse that's been beaten to death already. I have nothing to say about it that hasn't already been said, so I'll just say again that I am not convinced by Enrique's most recent responses attempting to explain his position with this. In fact, I actually wasn't that pinged by it until he explained it, because his explanation came off as fake. But I'll get to that in a bit.

thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

From this point almost 24 hours ago all the way to now, Enrique has been doing nothing but explaining himself and re-explaining himself and being defensive and being over-defensive. It just looks really bad. Maybe when he starts talking about something other than other people's thoughts on him I'll be more comfortable with his alignment, but as of right now, GTH, based on his ISO I would say he looks like:

SCUM

I actually agree with this read though. Some of his early posts have reminded me of his baddie game.

Black Rock, can you elaborate upon this in any way? What is it that specifically reminds you of his baddie game; can you provide certain adjectives or qualities that his posts share here with his 'baddie game' versus what you associate with his civilian game?

[Golden]

Oh MP. You didn't notice my fruit pun

I have to run. Thoughts on bass when I return.

[Tangrowth]

Hey, MP... two hours left, and I'm feeling crunched for time (I may have to dash off at any moment)...

Rainbow time?

Heck yes! Sorry, I've been responding to a lot of stuff, I know.

I'm going to work on it right now as I finish off any last responses.

[Elohcin]

I admit I did some skimming and did not thoroughly read every post.

After reading the ISOs, the pings, the suspicions. I am placing my vote on Enri. I think he is our best bet for today.

[Tangrowth]

You are way to defensive for what I said. I have never seen a golden who is scared he is going to be lynched because of too much content as a civ? Even if you have been in the recent past, even in more than one game, that is a bullshit excuse, and illogical. As you stated in your argument with zebra content is useful as it allows reads. I've have been lynched on day 1-2 in 2/6 of the games ive played thus far. That hasn't stopped me from posting. (Thanfully this day 0/1 fell on my weekend so I have had more time to participate.)

I'm not 'afraid to post content'.

But if I put my absolute full 'supatown golden' into every game from day one, two things will happen.

1) People will like me less, because it can be quite an abrasive style for some people and I make a concerted effort not to do it too often, only when I feel very confident and;
2) I'll burn out.

I'm heading into a short mafia break after this game to stay fresh, and I only signed up for this one very late because I couldn't resist the theme. But I have no intention of playing this game at 100% intensity. I'm still committed to providing quality content, just hopefully in a less intense way. I need this for me.

I appreciate you doing the iso and realising that I've been providing content all game. You didn't need to change your perspective, you could have pursued it, so that is a positive in my book.

I agree with this. I think bcornett looks good given his accusation of you, his ISO investigation, and being willing to reconsider. It reads genuine to me.

[Tangrowth]

I hate doing this but I randomed my vote from people I mentioned in my previous post and got Matt.
Sorry nothing personal but rl has its demands atm.

Rox, I eagerly await hearing your opinions as soon as you can provide them.

I hope everything's alright!

[Tangrowth]

There was one thing that made me feel a bit better about Matt (that he could be a civilian muddling his way through). It's when I said I suspected him because I found all of his isos disingenuous and he claimed it would be interesting for me to express exactly how, because 'none of them were'. That sounds like the uber-confident civvie Matt I'm used to.

I don't want this to get buried.

Has anyone else had any civilian vibes from Matt F? Let's talk about them.

I'll go through Matt F's posts in a bit here to see what I think as well, since my thoughts are becoming a bit scattered again.

[a2thezebra]

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

Is indie hunting not a scumtell here? I'm surprised this didn't get that much notice.

I agree, indie hunting should be a big scumtell. I think people are giving Simon a pass because he's kind of new at mafia iirc. But I don't like how this "indie hunting" was his only attempt at contributing to the game until now.

Just to explain, in case Simon doesn't know, indie hunting over mafia hunting is generally counter-productive because an indie can be as big of a threat to mafia as they are to town. And a mafia player would be interested in hunting the indie above all, so people who hunt for indies can be suspicious. Besides, this particular indie doesn't even seem to have the wincon of killing everyone, and could be an useful asset to town.

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

This post bothered a little more, though. Are you actually agreeing with Simon's proposition, or just questioning it? If you are agreeing, it reeks of opportunism. Jumping on a bad idea from a new player so you can help him lead town in the wrong direction is pretty bad. Then again, it sounds too obvious of a thing for a mafia player to do.

Then in a next post, you are calling Simon scum. And now I'm confused. Do you agree or not agree with him?

I was half in agreement because I honestly don't think going after indies is inherently a scumtell (although I was curious why Patsy seemed so intent on singling out Boba Fett), and half looking to gauge the reactions of how he would respond. And it worked; I'd like to know now why he singled out Russ. I don't remember outright calling him scum in the next post (although I did in my GTH reads) but until he clarifies, that is how I feel.

[Tangrowth]

Oh MP. You didn't notice my fruit pun

I have to run. Thoughts on bass when I return.

!!!!

I didn't! Oh man, that was great. How could I miss it?

Sorry I didn't catch your rainbow request earlier, I really wanted to fully catch up and it was taking a while. I look forward to your return.

[Tangrowth]

I admit I did some skimming and did not thoroughly read every post.

After reading the ISOs, the pings, the suspicions. I am placing my vote on Enri. I think he is our best bet for today.

Elo, can you elaborate upon this? What is it about Enrique that makes you think he's worthy of your vote, particularly over Matt F whom you expressed some doubt about earlier?

[a2thezebra]

I've got to tell you guys, I feel so far out of my depth right now. From my limited experience, what passes for evidence this early on in Mafia games is often little more than a combination of bravado and overactive imagination. All I can see is some particularly harsh accusations being thrown around by some VERY enthusiastic players. I have been around long enough not to mistake aggressiveness in these games with Mafia guilt so a couple of feuding prominent players (at this stage of the game) doesn't convince me that one is necessarily Mafia. From what I've read, Golden seems to make a lot of sense to me...

Like I said, I'm having a lot of trouble trying to follow you guys...

I agree with you tbqh. The thread has been a total chaotic mess.

I'm voting Matt F because he followed a2z on this stupid endeavor of doing reads on everyone on day one to appear civvie.

Pasta time but I'll go through those ISO's when I return. Yes, all of them. Yes, I know it's Day 1 and for most of these players there is little content to properly analyze. Yes, I don't care.

Also, this strikes me as a lazy vote. It single-handedly makes me feel a lot worse about Dom and a bit more cautious towards a Matt F lynch.

[Tangrowth]

Alright, I'm shutting down the obsessive posting for a bit here. I know it's been a lot, sorry for taking up more of your time, everyone, but I suppose I had a lot I wanted to say!

Working on rainbow reads now. Going to wait on Golden ISO since bcornett already took care of that and it just doesn't range that highly on pre-EoD priorities since I'm desperately running out of time and I will not be voting for Golden today.

Going to definitely ISO Enrique and Matt F after rainbow reads because I've had some pings regarding both of them and I think both of them have a high propensity to be lynched.

If anyone has any thoughts, civilian or mafia, on Enrique or Matt F, please share them.

[Simon]

I don't have a reason for chosing to ask Russ first about Boba Fett. I believe Russ when he answered me.

I think Roxy might be bad and I'll vote to lynch her. She isn't talking much and might be trying to hide about being a baddie.

[a2thezebra]

Zebra - If you don't want to answer my questions, fine. If it's too hard for you to put these supposed answers you've already given me in a nice simple post, then wow. Can you at least take each of my three questions, and direct me to which of your already 100 posts I can find those answers in? No? I'm guessing not.

You guess correctly. I took the time to go read, re-read, and re-re-read everyone's ISO to look for anything worth noting. You can take the time to find my response towards all of your questions (as well as a shit-ton of questions I asked you which is why I find it so amusing that you keep pestering me about the questions I haven't answered when you're the one who's not up to date but I digress) which recently occured when both of us were online in a conversation both of us were involved in. It's not exactly a needle in a haystack, and I don't believe you that you haven't already seen it.

[a2thezebra]

Thanks Zebra, reposting your link to all players post.

I'll front page this stat. Sorry for any delay.

Sorry DH, you'll have to edit that because MP's link leads to Golden's ISO. That's my bad.

[DharmaHelper]

Thanks Zebra, reposting your link to all players post.

I'll front page this stat. Sorry for any delay.

Sorry DH, you'll have to edit that because MP's link leads to Golden's ISO. That's my bad.

This'll be fixed after the lynch!

[Black Rock]

Enrique

I am so done with these after finishing Matt's ISO. But nevertheless, I must move forward!

I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

Sooooo this is a horse that's been beaten to death already. I have nothing to say about it that hasn't already been said, so I'll just say again that I am not convinced by Enrique's most recent responses attempting to explain his position with this. In fact, I actually wasn't that pinged by it until he explained it, because his explanation came off as fake. But I'll get to that in a bit.

thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

From this point almost 24 hours ago all the way to now, Enrique has been doing nothing but explaining himself and re-explaining himself and being defensive and being over-defensive. It just looks really bad. Maybe when he starts talking about something other than other people's thoughts on him I'll be more comfortable with his alignment, but as of right now, GTH, based on his ISO I would say he looks like:

SCUM

I actually agree with this read though. Some of his early posts have reminded me of his baddie game.

Black Rock, can you elaborate upon this in any way? What is it that specifically reminds you of his baddie game; can you provide certain adjectives or qualities that his posts share here with his 'baddie game' versus what you associate with his civilian game?

Often I have seen him as civvie be more in the background. He will explain himself more till he's blue in the face and no one believes he could possibly be bad.

i mean, im replying. honestly i havent been putting enough energy into this game and i have very little idea of whats going on outside of mac building a narrative out of all my posts.

i disagree about there being any nervousness or inconsistencies in my voting. i considered some options, found one that actually managed to look appealing, and went for it.

Key words like "honestly" followed by an excuse. My thoughts could be biased because I chased after him one game for several game days and no one believed me. I payed attention to every detail

Even though he's constantly defending himself he is confidant. He lays out the way he sees it.

Just a gut feeling I have that may change after day 1.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I've got to tell you guys, I feel so far out of my depth right now. From my limited experience, what passes for evidence this early on in Mafia games is often little more than a combination of bravado and overactive imagination. All I can see is some particularly harsh accusations being thrown around by some VERY enthusiastic players. I have been around long enough not to mistake aggressiveness in these games with Mafia guilt so a couple of feuding prominent players (at this stage of the game) doesn't convince me that one is necessarily Mafia. From what I've read, Golden seems to make a lot of sense to me...

Like I said, I'm having a lot of trouble trying to follow you guys...

You're not wrong, Glorfindel, this is an unusually heated Day 1, and I haven't been able to follow along just yet either. I will have no access to Mafia again until after the poll ends, and I haven't been able to immerse myself in the ongoing saga here, so I'll just vote BR because she's busy hosting another game.

GTH evaluation of this post (and DFaraday in general):

What is it, folks? I'm curious.

Inconclusive. He is simply too busy for mafia right now and his alignment is unreadable at this point.

On the other question, I think Zebra is town, mainly because she seems to be playing a very risky game and that tends to be a town read for me.

Catching up. Vote coming as soon as I'm done.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Zebra I feel like you having scum reads on all the low posters is odd. There is so much stuff with people who post a lot and you don't get any kind of scum read from any of them?
This could be a scum tactic to look like he or she is trying to catch scum when really all he or she is doing is throwing shit at low posters who probably aren't around and won't say anything. While she stays in good graces of the high posters.

Bass, let's talk about this.

You do note this could be a mafia tactic. Do you think that is what zebra is doing? If so, would you consider voting for her today?

What are your other thoughts at the moment?

Yes I will be voting zebra I think it is a bad tactic. I think her or hus rainbow list just seems so forced out of nothing.

[sig]

Simon

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

We should ask them. Russ, are you Boba Fett?

I'm still curious as to why Russ was singled out here. There are many possibilities, but I am not waiting for Simon to clarify to finish these damn ISO analyses right now, so even though a clarification could easily change it, my current GTH of Simon based on this post alone is:

SCUM

I interrupt your Simon suspicions to remind you that Simon is eight years old. Thank you for listening.

Now, as I finished my second page of reading out of three, I reach the bottom of the page and see three more pages to read. I spent my day at the dentist's office, working, and schooling. I soon have to eat dinner and then I have a fitness class. I know I will not catch up, but I am going to get as far as possible before I vote. I'm not voting anyone who has been contributing a lot b/c as I have said before, I think the majority of the baddies are lying low.

He is only eight? I find it even stranger he wants to kill Boba Fett :P
I hope his grammar and spelling isn't that much better then mine it would be slightly embarrassing

So still not sure who to vote for if I don't see any major pings at this point so I'll be holding my vote for the time, though the more I think about Enrique the less I like his posts. I'd like other players thoughts on this.

sig, why is this?

Also, what is your gut evaluation of Glorfindel? You know him, so I'd imagine you have some different input than the rest of us would have.

It is partly a gut read and as I said the more I think about his Poll 0 vote and his reasons for voting as well as his posts in general the more suspicious I become. He seemed to aggressively defend himself when I mentioned the Hutts and said it was interesting which is making me wonder if I struck a little to close to the mark. His posts seem slightly panicky and off.
It isn't much to go on but after rereading his post I will be placing my vote on Enrique.
Glorfindel is null to me right know. His posts are the same as they usually are Day 1 and I do think he is slightly overwhelmed, but I don't see any big civ/scum tells. Though I would like him to answer my questions.

Somebody asked this, right know I'm reading Zebra as civ and I've got a slight civ read on Golden. I've got a minor scum read on Enrique and a slight scum ping on Wilgy.

Enrique

@Luke How ya doing, current thoughts on the game?

[a2thezebra]

I do not believe anyone can possibly read my iso and genuinely call that a 'lack of content'. I guess you are in the zebra camp where if you don't care about the specific thing being talked about, it isn't in any way someone trying to contribute to solving the game.

You really still don't get it? I have a civ read on both you and Mac, why would I insinuate that you're not trying to contribute? Just because I don't think a particular conversation has objective value I'm apparently trying to silence you, shut you down, accuse you of ulterior motives, all this nonsense that anyone outside of you and Mac knows I did not say. This is the exact thing I was criticizing the back-and-forth between you and Mac for in the first place. I like your content and I like your thoughts so I'm trying to get you to not let your emotions decide what's actually going on. I know because I've done it often, and you don't have to agree, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to express that opinion. Please tell me this is the last time I have to explain what was already clear.

linki - Haha I haven't even gotten to respond to your issue with me yet and you're ready to vote for me? That speaks so well of your alignment.

[Russtifinko]

Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone.

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?

[sig]

Zebra I feel like you having scum reads on all the low posters is odd. There is so much stuff with people who post a lot and you don't get any kind of scum read from any of them?
This could be a scum tactic to look like he or she is trying to catch scum when really all he or she is doing is throwing shit at low posters who probably aren't around and won't say anything. While she stays in good graces of the high posters.

Bass, let's talk about this.

You do note this could be a mafia tactic. Do you think that is what zebra is doing? If so, would you consider voting for her today?

What are your other thoughts at the moment?

Yes I will be voting zebra I think it is a bad tactic. I think her or hus rainbow list just seems so forced out of nothing.

I don't find him having scum reads on only wallflowers to be that strange, also why do you think zebra's rainbow list was forced?

[a2thezebra]

First off, I want to say thanks to zebra for taking the time to ISO everyone! I'm not sure what kind of substantive conclusions can be made this early in the game, particularly since there is no flip yet, but I've been reading them right around the time I stopped posting last night and it's good to be able to get inside your head with regards to all of the players. I might try some ISOs myself, time permitting, but not until we have at least a flip to go by. I will see if I can rainbow everyone before Day 1's end though, probably after I finish catching up.

Secondly, regarding this:

Tunneling indicates following something to the detriment of observing other things. What have I failed to observe? I've had interactions and heated ones with more players than anyone. To say I am tunneling sucks.

I agree with Mac here regarding the implication of tunneling and I don't feel he has been tunneling (though I still have more to read). I feel as though he has been willing to consider thread evidence when suspecting players (me and others) and I don't feel he has been particularly tunnely... and I'm the victim. I feel like I've been mislynched and tunneled many times throughout the years way worse than what Mac is throwing down; at least he's engaging me in a conversation and providing specific instances of why he thinks I'm bad. Although they're wrong, I don't feel like he isn't considering what I'm saying.

I realize you still GTH'd him town, zebra, but I wanted to provide my input on this nonetheless.

You may be right in regards to the tunneling thing, but just know that I'm not accusing him of not engaging you or failing to consider your point-of-view. That's certainly how he took it, but that is not how I feel.

[a2thezebra]

Let's talk about this post from Matt F:

Zebra, how is it concerning that I don't have any big thoughts on the game yet but I know I will soon enough? You are definitely reaching here. As I said, I will look over the game tonight and see if anything pops out. Up until now, I've just been having my regular Day 0/1 fun time, but apparently that is seen as suspicious, so that will stop now believe me.

Matt F here appears to be expressing that it should not be concerning that he doesn't have any big thoughts yet on the game because he knows he will soon.

This logic seems to fall apart quickly, unless I'm missing something here. By this logic, does this not mean we cannot suspect any of the low contributors because they may have thoughts soon?

I don't understand the townie mindset, or any mindset at all for that matter, behind this defense. Can someone help me?

That's nothing, did you miss the post where he bet that he would contribute soon?

[a2thezebra]

Well, I can't even get zebra's gender consistent in a single post

Sorry zeebs I'm trying!

Do or do not, there is no try.

Just kidding it's all good :P

[a2thezebra]

Bass_the_Clever

Finally one of the lower posters, I'm starting to feel like JJJ. I feel like I might get mafia fever. :P

Well I think the death star would be bad news. High is cold so I don't want to go there. Tatooine is where Jana is from I think so it might be the best place to get info.

Jana? You mean Jabba? This comes off as a bit disingenuous for a Day 0 vote. Mainly gut, but I don't like how assured you seem that visiting Jabba will benefit the civs rather than Jabba himself. Other players at least considered the possibility that it might be a bad thing, even if they weighed the options likely to be in town's favor.

You guys are posting so much lol. I'm reading now but am tried so I might take a nap before I post.

One nap later...

MM is one of the hardest people to read it usually takes a few phase for me to even to form an opinion on him.
MP is really good at being bad but I don't think he is bad this game only because I don't think he would walk away from his computer when he is being talked about if he was bad.

That's it? Assuming you read everything, this isn't much to offer, and DAMN it comes off as hella fake. You have a neutral read on MM that doubles as an excuse for yourself for that read to not be swayed in either direction for some time (hmm...) and your civ read on MP is based on a reason that could easily be a byproduct of WIFOM, especially for a player with enough experience (not to mention hosting) as MP. And you know this! I believe your reasoning is an act. This is why it's important to take a close look at the lower posters; their scummy behavior goes by unnoticed much easier than the baddies who post often. Before going through his ISO, if you had asked me what my GTH of Bass was I would probably have said town, but at the moment he is my strongest read yet of the dark side:

SCUM

Haha this is a great post. I love when I get read as bad when I've been busy. And been barely able to keep up. The post about MM was made because someone said something about what is meta is or something like that. I said the stuff about MP because ita how I felt sorry it read "fake" to you.

Speaking of fake, this is a pretty fake-looking post. It meets all the baddie response checkpoints:

General over-reaction
Laughing off even the mere idea that you could be suspicious
Excusing being read as bad because of being busy
Excusing being read as bad because the thread's so hard to keep up with
Trying to sell town the idea that being busy is the only reason you were accused at all
Excusing a certain post vaguely and topping it off with the phrase "or something like that"
Another hurried excuse for the other point

Yup, you're scum.

[bcornett24]

I took a quick look at Matt F's content almost every single post is related to this death star controversy.

Matt F

[Tangrowth]

Day 1 MP rainbow reads list:

MacDougall

bcornett24
Golden

a2thezebra
Bass_the_Clever
Black Rock
Canucklehead
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
Metalmarsh89
sig
Simon
Sorsha

Bubbles
DFaraday
Dom
DrWilgy
Glorfindel
Luke11646
Mishimeals
NANANANANANA_BANANA
nijuukyugou
Roxy
TheFloyd73

Matt F
Russtifinko

Enrique

Players are arranged alphabetically within groups.

I forced myself to avoid neutral (yellow) reads, which was pretty tough considering there are too many players with too little content to analyze at this stage.

[a2thezebra]

Are you currently civilian golden?

You don't seem too dedicated to the belief that Golden doesn't have much content. And what are you implying with "currently"?

[Tangrowth]

Blast it, I forgot Savage.

[Tangrowth]

REVISED:

Day 1 MP rainbow reads list:

MacDougall

bcornett24
Golden

a2thezebra
Bass_the_Clever
Black Rock
Canucklehead
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
Metalmarsh89
sig
Simon
Sorsha

Bubbles
DFaraday
Dom
DrWilgy
Glorfindel
Luke11646
Mishimeals
NANANANANANA_BANANA
nijuukyugou
Roxy
Savage
TheFloyd73

Matt F
Russtifinko

Enrique

Players are arranged alphabetically within groups.

I forced myself to avoid neutral (yellow) reads, which was pretty tough considering there are too many players with too little content to analyze at this stage.

[a2thezebra]

zebra, thanks much for your rainbow list, but consider me incredibly confused by the colors.

I presume we should examine this list by descending order for most town to most mafia reads, instead of the colors?

Correct. Matt's masquerade of obliviousness got me worked up and I was too exhausted from staying up later than usual as well as finishing the ISO analyses, (I'm not JJJ, I don't normally have the energy for that kind of thing) so I kind of went "fuck it" and assigned whatever color felt right to each player. Like I said in the post itself, I wasn't happy with the rainbow and perhaps because I was only allowing myself GTH reads in the ISO's, it's basically just two extremes of red and green. I might post another rainbow before the day is over if I feel like it and have the time.

[Enrique]

MP, I think it was a combination of the copious spoiler tags, quotes, and colored responses. All I know is that last night I found it impossible to read. I don't usually have that problem so maybe it was all on my end, but man I am not kidding it made my head hurt.

I think Matt denying any Death Star intel is just him backpedaling. I mean, seriously, nobody was ever gonna forget how badly he pushed for it.

Let me explain the Russ thing to you (I sort of already did but this is more to the point): his idea to vote for Tattooine to find out Jabba's plans sounds absolutely insane and like total bullshit, like a really poorly thought excuse to justify his vote. Knowing Tattooine is a base for everyone but the civvies, you choose to go there? Even Death Star voters didn't try to validate their vote with "we can find some stuff out," it just strikes me as complete nonsense reasoning.

I specifically had some issues with your responses to Mac (I might get to that later, can't remember specifics), your reluctance to understand what's wrong with Russ, and mostly I was annoyed that post was so much trouble for practically nothing I could agree with. Maybe it's a playstyle thing. Maybe we have different perspectives based on in-game factors. I have no clue, but the point is, we're not currently on the same wavelength. It's something I find happens a lot before my instincts really kick in. I'm more inclined to trust some people over others (I don't think I've EVER thought of Canuck as a baddie. I kept telling my team in Monty Python she was the last civvie. I'm still not over that betrayal of trust).

MP, BR, and Dom (I'm still waiting for him to throw his hat in this one ) are players that I remember having trouble seeing eye to eye with in my last few games. They absolutely got me in Dr. Who (probably my worst mafia performance ever tbh), but even then it just seemed like a rehash of Monty Python.

[bcornett24]

The day ends in under an hour now and there are so many people who have not yet voted.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Enrique

I am so done with these after finishing Matt's ISO. But nevertheless, I must move forward!

I think Tattooine, in the worst case scenario, would favor the Independents. Do we know what their win conditions are yet?

Sooooo this is a horse that's been beaten to death already. I have nothing to say about it that hasn't already been said, so I'll just say again that I am not convinced by Enrique's most recent responses attempting to explain his position with this. In fact, I actually wasn't that pinged by it until he explained it, because his explanation came off as fake. But I'll get to that in a bit.

thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

From this point almost 24 hours ago all the way to now, Enrique has been doing nothing but explaining himself and re-explaining himself and being defensive and being over-defensive. It just looks really bad. Maybe when he starts talking about something other than other people's thoughts on him I'll be more comfortable with his alignment, but as of right now, GTH, based on his ISO I would say he looks like:

SCUM

I actually agree with this read though. Some of his early posts have reminded me of his baddie game.

Black Rock, can you elaborate upon this in any way? What is it that specifically reminds you of his baddie game; can you provide certain adjectives or qualities that his posts share here with his 'baddie game' versus what you associate with his civilian game?

Often I have seen him as civvie be more in the background. He will explain himself more till he's blue in the face and no one believes he could possibly be bad.

i mean, im replying. honestly i havent been putting enough energy into this game and i have very little idea of whats going on outside of mac building a narrative out of all my posts.

i disagree about there being any nervousness or inconsistencies in my voting. i considered some options, found one that actually managed to look appealing, and went for it.

Key words like "honestly" followed by an excuse. My thoughts could be biased because I chased after him one game for several game days and no one believed me. I payed attention to every detail

Even though he's constantly defending himself he is confidant. He lays out the way he sees it.

Just a gut feeling I have that may change after day 1.

Thanks for elaborating, BR. I think that you're noting traits that are missing from not only what you propose to be his townie meta but also, more generally, an overall townie mindset, which I am struggling to find in his posts. I'll ISO him in a second here though.

Ahhh, there's not enough time left!

Linki w/ Enrique: Thanks much for the post! Let me take a look at that in a second.

Linki w/ bcornett: OMG, I know right? x 2

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ok I'm busy irl right now so I can't keep up with recent discussion. Will answer questions tomorrow.

Dragon - Again, so...If I don't contribute, I get sussed by folks, if I do contribute, I get sussed by people. Peachy.

This answer is incredibly simplistic and ignores the main point I made about you. It's not the contribution, it's the way you did it. It felt artificial. And it felt like you were only doing it to spite Zebra. And finally, it had limited usefulness since, like Enrique, you seem to be more interested in analysing people's day 0 vote than their posts and behavior.

I don't have time to look for posts but I'm generally not liking how you defend yourself. You overreacted on the Death Star thing and you seem to be making it too personal about Zebra.

You are not as strong a bad read as you could, but it's good enough for day 1. A lot of your anger and jokery could be legit, but my gut feeling says it's not.

Goodbye.

votes Matt

See you tomorrow people.

[bcornett24]

Are you currently civilian golden?

You don't seem too dedicated to the belief that Golden doesn't have much content. And what are you implying with "currently"?

Both of these have been discussed in several later posts as well as a detail iso of golden. Have you had the time to read them yet?

[Tangrowth]

Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone.

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?

An elaboration when you have the opportunity would be nice, Russ.

[bcornett24]

Ok I'm busy irl right now so I can't keep up with recent discussion. Will answer questions tomorrow.

Dragon - Again, so...If I don't contribute, I get sussed by folks, if I do contribute, I get sussed by people. Peachy.

This answer is incredibly simplistic and ignores the main point I made about you. It's not the contribution, it's the way you did it. It felt artificial. And it felt like you were only doing it to spite Zebra. And finally, it had limited usefulness since, like Enrique, you seem to be more interested in analysing people's day 0 vote than their posts and behavior.

I don't have time to look for posts but I'm generally not liking how you defend yourself. You overreacted on the Death Star thing and you seem to be making it too personal about Zebra.

You are not as strong a bad read as you could, but it's good enough for day 1. A lot of your anger and jokery could be legit, but my gut feeling says it's not.

Goodbye.

votes Matt

Talk about a hit and run...

See you tomorrow people.

[Tangrowth]

I took a quick look at Matt F's content almost every single post is related to this death star controversy.

Matt F

What do you make of it with regards to his alignment?

[bcornett24]

Talk about a hit and run is my post, not DDLs.

[Golden]

Please let me know if I've screwed this up - I started by quoting MP for my convenience, and then moved names around, so it's possible I've stuffed up.

Decent town read

Canucklehead
zebra

Slight town read


bcornett24
MP
Dragon D. Luffy
nijuukyugou
Enrique
Bubbles
sig
Russti
Simon
Sorsha
Dom
Glorfindel

Neutral

Metalmarsh89
Elohcin
Black Rock
DFaraday
Luke11646
Mishimeals
NANANANANANA_BANANA
Roxy
TheFloyd73

Slight baddie read

Matt F
DrWilgy

Strong baddie read

Bass_the_Clever

That was interesting... I expected to have more slight baddie reads at least, but I didn't (I guess some people I've suspected over the course of the day have given me reasons to see them in a better light).

[Tangrowth]

Golden, talk to me about this slight town read of Enrique and do it fast. He could get lynched today.

[nijuukyugou]

Blarg. Like what others have said, I feel like I'm drowning in too many ideas/things to keep up with in this game. I suppose, however, that it is nice that people are discussing more specific things than the usual Day 1 banter of "vote low posters, don't vote low posters," etc. (there has been that sort of talk, but not to the absurd extent I'm used to). But I ramble.

So, I'll discuss what stood out to me the most in this rather quick read (and by quick I mean hour-long speed read of about ten pages).

Although I understand where they're coming from, people jumping on Simon for his comment about wanting to find Boba Fett, an Indy, looked like disingenuous baddie hunting, like they're looking for something tenuous to grab on to from a low poster. This may be because I know Simon, but I'm always weirded out by people jumping on little things like that, perhaps to see who bites.

I'm here. I see there are a lot of players who aren't talking like me. I think it would be good to find and lynch Boba Fett because he can kill any night. We need to make sure he doesn't survive.

I agree. Now how do you suppose we go about doing that?

This post bothered a little more, though. Are you actually agreeing with Simon's proposition, or just questioning it? If you are agreeing, it reeks of opportunism. Jumping on a bad idea from a new player so you can help him lead town in the wrong direction is pretty bad. Then again, it sounds too obvious of a thing for a mafia player to do.

Then in a next post, you are calling Simon scum. And now I'm confused. Do you agree or not agree with him?

I was wondering this same thing; however, I had this tabbed before I saw Zebra's response, which is satisfactory. I get good vibes from Zebra, despite the aggressive playstyle (which is normal for her :P ) MP, you have asked on at least two occasions about people's opinion of Zebra, and because of that, it appears as though you're pushing for something without jumping into it. Care to elaborate on your own feelings about her? (and apologies if I've missed your opinion if you've stated it)

Regarding Matt F, although, like Eloh, I'm reluctant to go after someone who has put in a lot of posting on Day 1 and put himself out there, I don't get good vibes from him. I won't even touch the Death Star madness. As others said, it did seem as though he were posting ISOs because Zebra posted them and he (Matt) wanted to appear more contributory. His exchanges with Golden don't make me feel better about him, as it looks like he's trying to pick at an obscure idea of his gameplay to point fingers at him (similar to what I said about suspecting little things like with Simon and wanting to catch Boba Fett - see what sticks?). Honestly, I'm starting to lose my eloquence because I've been posting this for almost an hour.

Eloquence lost. bcornett seems to be doing the same thing, picking at it with Golden (this time about "content," which there was plenty of in his posts, despite what bcornett says and flip-flops on). Keeping my eye here.

Okay I have seriously run out of steam and it's turning more into stream of consciousness than to my usual liking. I have spent far too much time here today, and I need to eat, and there's a billion linki posts (I may be exaggerating) that cry for reading but my hunger says no. I really did have a more well-worded explanation of my Matt F pings in my head, but I hope the above suffices. I'm going to vote that way and then make breakfast for dinner, because breakfast for dinner. Back perhaps later when my brain clears up.