STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Glorfindel]

Could someone please confirm the following assumption for me? Am I correct in assuming (in the graph that identifies our lynch selections) the the bracketed number next to each player's name relates to the sequence in which they placed their vote for the corresponding Day phase?

[MacDougall]

Yes that is the case
Hopefully now you can save face
Left right left right
Last night last night
Limericks in Mafia have no place

[Glorfindel]

Yes that is the case
Hopefully now you can save face
Left right left right
Last night last night
Limericks in Mafia have no place

Thank you my friend. You are indeed uniquely talented...

[Sorsha]

Zebra- what happened to your bass suspicion from yesterday?

Golden- you too, you said you thought bass would be good discussion for this phase but I haven't seen you talk about him yet...

[Bass_the_Clever]

BAss-- what are you thinking?

I still don't trust zebra. As for Roxy I think it possible the RL is getting in the way of her playing like she normally does. I think if she was bad she would asked to be subbed out so it wouldn't effect her team.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

MPs wall of text is a carefully constructed magnum opus designed to ensure players constantly over-analyse Zebra's posts I reckon. It's a genius scum play because Zebra is eminently lynchable early game yet here has a load of town reads so by doing so Zebra is quite likely to start doing things to raise the ire of other vociferous players. What a smart way to knock off the dominant town player.

MP you devilish fiend.

linki: Yes. I had a leadership seminar at work that I couldn't sneakily play Mafia instead of attending.

Honestly I don't see how it would be really effective at making people suspect Zebra, really. Be paranoid about her posts, sure, but we aren't having a 180º on our view of her unless she does say something really suspicious.

You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

So that brings me to my next point. Elo said yesterday she believed most mafiosos were among lurkers.

I'm sorry but an assertion like this is borderline absurd. I've yet to play in a Mafia game yet where this happened. This is without much doubt one of the lamest attempts at diverting attention to somewhat hapless new players I've seen. Sure, we're a little disoriented playing with people and rules with which we are largely unfamiliar and it's easy to make us look guilty. I'd be really surprised if any of the experienced non-Mafia players here would take any of this seriously and further, it REALLY does little for the credibility of the person making such assertions.

I haven't done an ISO on them, but Glorfindel's vote catches my attention because of his complete lack of explanation of it at the time. He just came in, dropped a vote in the highest voted person at the time and left without saying a thing. Not sure about the others.

Are you able to provide an accurate list of the sequence of the votes on Matt F's bandwagon? I for one would be interested to see it. I don't recall there were so many votes on it when I voted. And AGAIN (because I obviously didn't explain it sufficiently well the first time...) I was at work on Friday and I'd lost track of the deadline. I think when I voted it was only about an hour and a half to go and I simply didn't have the time to detail the explanation for my vote on him - not that there was one - I just thought he came across as suspicious from the tone of his posts. I'm struggling enough with this game thank you very much! I'd appreciate it if you'd grant me the courtesy of cutting me just a little bit of slack as a consequence

It's not absurd, it's entirely likely. I played a game like that not long ago. In a game where about half of the players have low activity, what's the probability of a bunch of them being mafia? Not that low.

I'm pointing this out because there is a tendency in those games to ignore people that don't post much (since they don't give material for us to read) and focus on the big posters who say suspicious stuff every now and then. And if the RNG gods happened to give us mafia teams full of inactive, that behavior will screw us up.

The list of votes is in the poll thread. Matt was leading them at the time.

To be fair, I'm liking your defenses for now, though I'd like to see more of you trying to solve the game, not just defenses.

I'm not cutting you any slack though. Suspecting people is part of the game, deal with it.

Okay looking at Brian's post out of these seven almost all are null. I'm thinking Golden isn't mafia, but besides that nothing from this list. I think we do have at least one or two mafia member here and I do agree with Dragon these players have had little activity, but this also seems like Dragon is trying to get us to focus on those who haven't posted at all, and this is a good way to lynch civs who are easy lynches and won't attract attention to those who pushed for there lynch if they flip civ.

And focusing only in the active ones won't lynch civs? Let's be honest here, we have no idea where the mafia is, whether they are among the actives, inactives or both. I'm just saying we should look at both, and discussing the fact most actives, save very few exceptions, seem to be getting townreads by everyone.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

BAss-- what are you thinking?

I still don't trust zebra. As for Roxy I think it possible the RL is getting in the way of her playing like she normally does. I think if she was bad she would asked to be subbed out so it wouldn't effect her team.

This sounds like Economics all over again. She was busy IRL in that game, but that didn't stop her from throwing incredibly suspicious posts left and right, and eventually flipping mafia.

As I have mentioned before, as much as RL problems can be a real thing, a skilled baddie player can turn them into a tool in the game. You already know you aren't gonna post much, so you plan your posts accordingly.

Anyway, there is a limit to how much the "random vote" can be a reason to lynch her, but in this phase she doesn't seen to be doing much better. A lot of "no u" arguments against Zebra, a not much content other than defending herself.

Do you have any suspects, Roxy?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Sig, I've tried to read all of your posts carefully, and something is weirding me out. You have said a few times before that you suspect inactive players:

I'm reading Zebra as civ and I've got Wilgy as a slight mafia read. Besides that I think today has had more civ vs civs arguments and the mafia players are lying low.

Well not bad for Day 1, though I don't like how quickly Matt's wagon developed and the amount of low posters who voted for him.

linki: No he isn't Golden read the EU

Yet, when someone else (me) says the same thing, you say that as a reason to suspect them?

Okay looking at Brian's post out of these seven almost all are null. I'm thinking Golden isn't mafia, but besides that nothing from this list. I think we do have at least one or two mafia member here and I do agree with Dragon these players have had little activity, but this also seems like Dragon is trying to get us to focus on those who haven't posted at all, and this is a good way to lynch civs who are easy lynches and won't attract attention to those who pushed for there lynch if they flip civ.

I'm tone reading Roxy post's as slight civ, I also am unsure if a mafia Roxy would actually say her vote was decided at random. This puts the spotlight on her and I think a mafia Roxy would be less likely to do this and would instead come up with a different reason.

I would at this point rather not lynch a Matt voter based only around the argument that they are lurking.

I could lynch Enrique again today as my opinion of them hasn't changed and in fact him calling me two faced makes me more suspicious of him.
I would like other players opinions on Enrique.

Do you believe in inactives being likely to be mafia, or not? And if you do, don't you think suspecting me for saying the same thing is being a little hypocrite of you? Please elaborate more.

I mean, you did empathize that you still agree with the idea, so it seems you are at least trying to show you are not an hypocrite, and remain consistent. But that could be a calculated move too. It feels to me like you are just throwing the idea around and waiting to see whether you ride on it to lynch someone, or you jump boat (and use it to lynch someone). You already have your #1 suspect (Enrique) that you can keep coming back to if you need to.

I know there is a good chance I'm just being paranoid, but the whole thing just looks fishy to me.

[Marmot]

So... I have been relieved of my life in pet sounds mafia and am now catching up. What exactly happened to Matt?

Wilgy, you seem supremely disinterested this game. Why?

Not disinterested, just behind. I didn't expect it to start as soon as it did expect full force wilgy-ing as soon as I'm caught up. Also... Im not a doctor!

You are DrWilgy, and you can do it, and you are most definitely a doctor.

So I just looked at the tally... Matt F has 5 votes and is in danger zone. One of those votes is from Glorfindel. Where did Glorfindel post anything regarding his vote? Did I miss it? If not, consider me alarmed.

That makes the third vote for Matt F that I am uncomfortable with. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm officially not voting for him. Most of the wagon is just too easy.

This is absurd. You had been posting consistently about Matt F. You made some really great points. Yet when others vote there you get "uncomfortable" with your own suspicion? Why when it was so consistent and on point? Instead you vote Bass who you, yourself said you wanted to wait for another response from him. Your meaningless vote after the whole day of iso's and suspicions felt like a big cop out.
Then after Matt's reveal you come out with tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden bc he did not push Bass more - huh? Why does what Golden does or votes make so much of a difference with how you vote? Why is it Golden's fault Bass did not get lynched?

To be fair, you didn't vote Matt for the really great points that zebra provided, you random'd.

Okay looking at Brian's post out of these seven almost all are null. I'm thinking Golden isn't mafia, but besides that nothing from this list. I think we do have at least one or two mafia member here and I do agree with Dragon these players have had little activity, but this also seems like Dragon is trying to get us to focus on those who haven't posted at all, and this is a good way to lynch civs who are easy lynches and won't attract attention to those who pushed for there lynch if they flip civ.

Don't forget that there are two mafia though. Each mafia team will be hunting the other, not necessarily trying to pin easy lynches on civs. Well, I guess they still could, since they want civvies dead too.

But they will appear a little more sincere then in a game with only one mafia team.

Enrique- Where and how am I supposed to defend against a random vote? I can't which has been my point. Its an easy suspicion to make bc I cannot defend against it.

You could argue that you often random on Day 1.



Mac, I'm sorry you'll write
In limericks from day til night
But's it not all bad
In fact it is rad
And may provide some insight

[Marmot]

In fact, these limericks seem fun
To write until the day is done
Mac, I'll join in your plight
I think you're alright
And together, let's lynch some scum

[Tangrowth]

Term paper is done, after pulling an all-nighter. I'm tired... and unfortunately still have to make the powerpoint presentation. Woo for procrastination...

Regardless, I'll make sure I'm back within a few hours of EoD.

[Marmot]

Term paper is done, after pulling an all-nighter. I'm tired... and unfortunately still have to make the powerpoint presentation. Woo for procrastination...

Regardless, I'll make sure I'm back within a few hours of EoD.

Congrats man!

So we shouldn't blame you too much if you're not coherent? :P

[Dragon D. Luffy]

My work has been going pretty well so decided to take a day off yesterday.

To watch the entire first season of Jessica Jones in a single day.

(veredict: stop what you're doing what now and go watch it).

Now back to juggling college work with mafia.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'll be away from the internet until the last hour before EoD. I'm thinking whether I should vote now, or make a half-assed catch up at EoD and vote then.

The planet busting thing is making me lean toward the former.

[DharmaHelper]

My work has been going pretty well so decided to take a day off yesterday.

To watch the entire first season of Jessica Jones in a single day.

(veredict: stop what you're doing what now and go watch it).

Now back to juggling college work with mafia.

I know right?

[a2thezebra]

I'm not going to be free until after the lynch.

Bass_the_Clever

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'm not going to be free until after the lynch.

Bass_the_Clever

Same here.

Roxy

Would love to give her time to defend herself from my latest post but I won't be here when she does.

[sig]

What is the case against Roxy?

Dragon I agree some low posters might be mafia, but you yourself were on the Matt wagon, quoted Brian's post but redirected it to the players who haven't posted, I found that slightly pingy since you could be trying to redirect attention away from yourself.

[Tangrowth]

I am here!

Who else is here?

I'm going to try catching up now, but it'll be a quick one, since I don't have super long (still have lots of other assignments to do).

[Tangrowth]

I was just going to look for his vote post because I noticed he voted my way. Rude! I am barely hosting. I'm more of the fill in when LC is busy.

Gun to head, this post is a cop out. Not very town-like.

Sorry BR! I just needed to vote somewhere, and I know self-voting is looked down on a lot more than it used to be.

I've pretty much caught up (but with a ton of skimming because y'all are insanely verbose), and Bcornett caught my eye for his suspicion of Golden, which didn't make sense to me. He did come around, but it still felt a bit weird to me to single out Golden that way. Golden, Zebra, and MP are reading as town to me, but I ten to see high posters as civvie in general.

Enrique could be indy, given his early comments, but his defense feels sincere to me.

Oh, and Savage questioning Simon about Boba Fett caught my attention too. Why wouldn't we want to find an SK?

Bubbles saying she would have voted Matt after the fact pings me.

DFaraday, why does Enrique's defense feel sincere; can you point to a specific post or posts for me?

Also, why re: Bubbles?

[Tangrowth]

You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

Well, I think this is what pinged me the most at the end of Day 1. Let's put something in perspective: we did not lynch mafia last day. We lynched someone who didn't belong to either scum team, and from their perspective, Matt could have easily been civ.

So good work town, but also good work mafia. There might be a mafioso among one of the players who attracted the most heat (Enrique, Russ, Bass), but otherwise, most mafiosos have successfully blended in.

So that brings me to my next point. Elo said yesterday she believed most mafiosos were among lurkers. I didn't think much about that idea, but after this lynch I think it's the most likely. While the majority of the most active posters are civ, since I'm having trouble reading them as scum, and most people seem to be having the same trouble. Heck, looking at MP's lastest rainbow list, you'll notice all the people at the bottom are low post ones, which reflects that. Of course, we could have some Master Blenders among the high posters, but those should be the exception.

Anyway, looking at the Matt voters, there are indeed 5/7 players with low activity here. At the risk of sounding like an hypocrite since I also voted for him, I think chances are there are mafia among those, maybe multiple of those. It's an easy vote, the guy was being suspected by about everyone, the bandwagon was forming, and a mafioso could think he belonged to the opposing team, since he was so obviously suspicious.

I haven't done an ISO on them, but Glorfindel's vote catches my attention because of his complete lack of explanation of it at the time. He just came in, dropped a vote in the highest voted person at the time and left without saying a thing. Not sure about the others. Ninjuu made one big post which seemed pretty civ-ish to me. Dom, Sorsha and Roxy are people I barely remember posting, with Dom being a little higher of a poster but I can't remember anything remarkable he has said or done. I encourage people to look at their posts, though I'm not sure when I'll be able to do that myself.

Also we had a whopping 9 people missing the poll, from about-to-be-replaced absolute lurkers like Mishimeals, to simply low posters like Bubbles and Savage. I bet there are mafia among those 9. I see some names in the player list that I can't for the life of me remember who they are. Who the hell is Wigly? Who is TheFloyd? What about Luke11646? Seriously, WHO ARE THOSE PEOPLE?

Look to their posts, if they have any, look for fishy stuff, and make them talk. We can't let this turn into a situation where civs kill each other while mafia stands on the background, watching while eating popcorn.

DDL, I agree we really need to put some pressure on low posters and people who missed the Day 1 vote. Those are 9 people who cannot have voting evidence raised against them so far, which makes it more difficult to suss out mafia.

Damn, also on that note... judging by the number of pages I have left, it seems we've had a really quiet Day 2. Has everyone else been as busy as me or what?

[Tangrowth]

Glorfindel's vote is the one that made basically go "NOPE" to a Matt vote of my own, but in hindsight with his explanation I honestly don't think he looks as bad as Dom or Roxy. I don't see what the scum motivation would be for doing something that would get him so much negative attention as to vote without any comment whatsoever, so to me it looks more likely that he just didn't want to miss the vote but didn't know who to vote for, so he placed his trust in the most viable lynch at the time (I think? Enrique might have been ahead at one point). Roxy randomized her vote and it just happened to end up on Matt, whereas Dom picked a flaky reason to justify his vote. I'm not excusing Glorfindel but I think right now, Dom and Roxy look worse.

zebra, what makes you think Roxy's behavior has a more likely mafia motivation than Glorfindel? I don't agree.

[Tangrowth]

I also really recommend people read MP's wall-o-text. He does make good points.

Although MP, did you notice my own reasons for a civ zebra read? I did give you a reason why I gth read her civ, beyond just effort.

Golden, I did notice, don't worry. I would love to dig back through the thread and see who town read zebra and for what reasons, since I can't recall every single one off the top of my head, and I think that could be telling.

For example, I remember Savage town read zebra, but I don't think Savage has said anything else, and I don't recall what his reason was.

[Dom]

I'm voting for Bass.

[Tangrowth]

MPs wall of text is a carefully constructed magnum opus designed to ensure players constantly over-analyse Zebra's posts I reckon. It's a genius scum play because Zebra is eminently lynchable early game yet here has a load of town reads so by doing so Zebra is quite likely to start doing things to raise the ire of other vociferous players. What a smart way to knock off the dominant town player.

MP you devilish fiend.

linki: Yes. I had a leadership seminar at work that I couldn't sneakily play Mafia instead of attending.

This is the first post of yours, Mac, where I feel you're exhibiting tunneling.

Can you elaborate upon why you made that interpretation of my post?

What are your other thoughts? (although I may run into them as I catch up, so ignore if necessary)

[Tangrowth]

I'm voting for Bass.

Hey there, Dom!

Any way you can quickly tell me your reasons for Bass over everyone else?

[Tangrowth]

Here are my top suspects going into Day 2 (in no particular order) and why:

1) MovingPictures07 - As I stated before, I don't like his comment about the timing of my Day 1 vote.

2) Bass_the_Clever - He said it takes him a while to get a grip on my alignment. That doesn't line up at all with our previous games' interactions.

3) MacDougall - This one isn't strong, but he was pretty carefree before I voted for him on Day 1, and got serious after I voted for him.

4) Nanana_Banana - He's done nothing but visit Tattooine.

5) Roxy - I agree with zebra about Roxy's vote (but not about Dom's). She offered a little disclaimer that Matt looked mildly suspicious for his Day 0 vote, and no such additionaly comments about any other player she talked about, yet coincidentally random'd on him Day 1.

6) a2thezebra - she is trying too hard and posting too much and is bad.

Did you not see my response?

Spoiler: show

Here is where zebra brought it up the first time, directly after I placed my vote.

Here is where zebra brought it back up for discussion, about 12 hours or so later.

Golden and MP chimed in immediately with regards to my vote in response to zebra's comment. MacDougall did too, but he was the victim, and this wasn't his first mention either.

Golden - Well Golden had one post in between when the vote happened and when zebra recently brought it up. Also his response read sincere to me.

MP - On the other hand, MP had 7 posts after it happened and before zebra brought it up. Not only that, but this was MP's response. He didn't comment on it before (not until zebra brought it up saying she was bothered by it). MP agreed he was also bothered by it, though admitted to not knowing how to handle it. But he also awkwardly used the word "also" twice at the very beginning of this post. It looks like sentence restructuring, meaning MP was trying to pick his words.

Metalmarsh89, you're missing something important here that negates your analysis about my response to your vote. The reason I hadn't pushed you on your vote was because between the time of your vote and this post about an hour later, I had not posted.

Why is that latter post important? Because you said you made your vote for observance. I thus did not feel it necessary to press you on it at that time. But when zebra kept going on about your vote, I wanted to make it clear that I was also bothered by your quick vote.

As to my "also" wording, I made that post in a rush, and if anything that blunder should indicate I gave too little thought to my post wording, rather than the alternative.

If you still have concerns, let me know.

[Tangrowth]

I'm not too sure what to think of how much attention MP has been giving me. On the one hand, outside of this attention, my gut is telling me that he's civ. But on the other hand every time he talks about me he comes across as very manipulative. He says he thinks I'm civ, but then why bring so much attention to me? It's not negative attention itself, but it seems like this very sinister left-handed sort of thinking. Day 1 he was asking a lot of players what their read and thoughts of me was. I don't mind of course, but it just seems weird to single out me. Is it really just because I have the most posts? That doesn't seem justified. And then there was that post I brought up earlier where he seemed to be implying that I was advocating a policy lynch. When I brought it up to him he denied that the post was even directed at me, despite that clearly being the case. Then when I pointed that out to him and he went with the whole silly-me shtick. I don't want to let my paranoia get the best of me, especially since nothing outside of the way he's been talking about me has bothered me at all. I can't honestly say I have a scum read of him, but I am watching him closely to see if I sense that kind of behavior towards other players as well.

zebra, I feel like you're being manipulative here.

1) You say "every time" I talk about you. Elaborate. What can I do to address your concern that I'm being very manipulative every instance I bring you up?

2) Why bring so much attention to you? That's a logical fallacy, for one, since your intense posting is bringing about as much attention to yourself as possible.

For two, I have you as a "slight" civilian read.

So, NO, it's not "just" because you have the most posts.

Did you not see this gigantic post where I gave multiple reasons why I'm bringing "so much" attention to you, and one of those reasons is that I'm not sure how to discern your behavior and hence I'm trying to get feedback?

The reason is that there's something about some of your posts this game that's been consistently bothering my gut (if you're being truthful, it seems we're having a mutual issue here), but I haven't bothered pursuing it because there's nothing substantial I can bring to the table. So I'm still willing to call you a slight town read because the thread content that you've produced outweighs any creepy gut feelings I've had that you're a fake supatown mafia.

The irony here is that this post feels like you're trying to keep attention on me in a manipulative fashion, not vice versa.

Are we just talking on different pages here and wallflowering each other a bit? Let's talk. Because if you are a civilian, I want to trust you.

[Tangrowth]

Epignosis is a huge dick
He has played a very cruel trick
Because I failed to vote
That's why I wrote
This stupid fucking limerick

Best post of the thread.

[Tangrowth]

Someone come talk to me!



Won't you please talk to me?

[Golden]

Well I feel like you are busy catching up, and I'm waiting for you to get to the end.

[Glorfindel]

MPs wall of text is a carefully constructed magnum opus designed to ensure players constantly over-analyse Zebra's posts I reckon. It's a genius scum play because Zebra is eminently lynchable early game yet here has a load of town reads so by doing so Zebra is quite likely to start doing things to raise the ire of other vociferous players. What a smart way to knock off the dominant town player.

MP you devilish fiend.

linki: Yes. I had a leadership seminar at work that I couldn't sneakily play Mafia instead of attending.

Honestly I don't see how it would be really effective at making people suspect Zebra, really. Be paranoid about her posts, sure, but we aren't having a 180º on our view of her unless she does say something really suspicious.

You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

So that brings me to my next point. Elo said yesterday she believed most mafiosos were among lurkers.

I'm sorry but an assertion like this is borderline absurd. I've yet to play in a Mafia game yet where this happened. This is without much doubt one of the lamest attempts at diverting attention to somewhat hapless new players I've seen. Sure, we're a little disoriented playing with people and rules with which we are largely unfamiliar and it's easy to make us look guilty. I'd be really surprised if any of the experienced non-Mafia players here would take any of this seriously and further, it REALLY does little for the credibility of the person making such assertions.

I haven't done an ISO on them, but Glorfindel's vote catches my attention because of his complete lack of explanation of it at the time. He just came in, dropped a vote in the highest voted person at the time and left without saying a thing. Not sure about the others.

Are you able to provide an accurate list of the sequence of the votes on Matt F's bandwagon? I for one would be interested to see it. I don't recall there were so many votes on it when I voted. And AGAIN (because I obviously didn't explain it sufficiently well the first time...) I was at work on Friday and I'd lost track of the deadline. I think when I voted it was only about an hour and a half to go and I simply didn't have the time to detail the explanation for my vote on him - not that there was one - I just thought he came across as suspicious from the tone of his posts. I'm struggling enough with this game thank you very much! I'd appreciate it if you'd grant me the courtesy of cutting me just a little bit of slack as a consequence

It's not absurd, it's entirely likely. I played a game like that not long ago. In a game where about half of the players have low activity, what's the probability of a bunch of them being mafia? Not that low.

I'm pointing this out because there is a tendency in those games to ignore people that don't post much (since they don't give material for us to read) and focus on the big posters who say suspicious stuff every now and then. And if the RNG gods happened to give us mafia teams full of inactive, that behavior will screw us up.

The list of votes is in the poll thread. Matt was leading them at the time.

To be fair, I'm liking your defenses for now, though I'd like to see more of you trying to solve the game, not just defenses.

I'm not cutting you any slack though. Suspecting people is part of the game, deal with it.

Okay looking at Brian's post out of these seven almost all are null. I'm thinking Golden isn't mafia, but besides that nothing from this list. I think we do have at least one or two mafia member here and I do agree with Dragon these players have had little activity, but this also seems like Dragon is trying to get us to focus on those who haven't posted at all, and this is a good way to lynch civs who are easy lynches and won't attract attention to those who pushed for there lynch if they flip civ.

And focusing only in the active ones won't lynch civs? Let's be honest here, we have no idea where the mafia is, whether they are among the actives, inactives or both. I'm just saying we should look at both, and discussing the fact most actives, save very few exceptions, seem to be getting townreads by everyone.

I suspect my friend that we may be well on the road to common ground here. I do appreciate your point about inactive players 'lurking' but from my experience, if inactive newbie players are drawn Mafia (I thought someone said in the sign-up thread that doesn't usually happen here ) they end up slipping up themselves sooner or later. What I think should be a higher priority is:

a) those experienced players that suddenly drop off the radar (unfortunately, I've no experience from playing with all but one of you so in so far as this category is concerned, I've got nothin') and

b) those players that post a lot about their suspicions and make extensive commentary about players. I personally see that as subtle manipulation of the vote and an experienced player in that position represents to me, a clear and present danger.

I know I sound like I'm harping here, but there's not a lot I can offer here. I don't know a lot of you and I have no point of reference in regard to your respective play styles. I can assure you though - from having played extensively with Sig, he is cast iron Town to me and I think despite the vacillation of his most recent posts you can have a lot of confidence in him. As for the rest of you, just when I think you're OK, someone comes along and casts dark clouds of doubt and suspicion in my mind. It really is too early in this game still, to draw many conclusions...

[Tangrowth]

So either the Empire didn't kill tonight or instead of killing did something to Matt. I'm wondering if the Matt thing isn't an Empire power, but instead the Empire team or the player responsibly for submitting the kill is inactive.
Thoughts on this?

sig, I think there are too many unknowns to discern what happened. Could have been a protect, a block, an inactive, or something more unconventional (Matt theory).

linki: Glorfindel! Come talk to me. Thoughts? Suspects? Where is your vote going? Why?

[Tangrowth]

What the heck? Why didn't linki tell me about Golden?

Fair enough, Golden, I'll try to be quick, then let's talk.

[Golden]

Thats interesting, glorfindel, your idea of 'suspicious' is what would normally look to me like civilian play.

@sorsha - my vote is still probably going for Bass today. I have nothing more in particular to say about him, and when I requested discussion what I was requesting is more for others to come to their own views on him rather than just ending up at day end and people going 'why bass'.

[Tangrowth]

You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

So that brings me to my next point. Elo said yesterday she believed most mafiosos were among lurkers.

I'm sorry but an assertion like this is borderline absurd. I've yet to play in a Mafia game yet where this happened. This is without much doubt one of the lamest attempts at diverting attention to somewhat hapless new players I've seen. Sure, we're a little disoriented playing with people and rules with which we are largely unfamiliar and it's easy to make us look guilty. I'd be really surprised if any of the experienced non-Mafia players here would take any of this seriously and further, it REALLY does little for the credibility of the person making such assertions.

I haven't done an ISO on them, but Glorfindel's vote catches my attention because of his complete lack of explanation of it at the time. He just came in, dropped a vote in the highest voted person at the time and left without saying a thing. Not sure about the others.

Are you able to provide an accurate list of the sequence of the votes on Matt F's bandwagon? I for one would be interested to see it. I don't recall there were so many votes on it when I voted. And AGAIN (because I obviously didn't explain it sufficiently well the first time...) I was at work on Friday and I'd lost track of the deadline. I think when I voted it was only about an hour and a half to go and I simply didn't have the time to detail the explanation for my vote on him - not that there was one - I just thought he came across as suspicious from the tone of his posts. I'm struggling enough with this game thank you very much! I'd appreciate it if you'd grant me the courtesy of cutting me just a little bit of slack as a consequence

Glorfindel,

Do you suspect DDL for this line of questioning?

Re: underlined, who's "us"?

Also, re: your question about the vote sequence, have you seen the Polls thread?

[Tangrowth]

I'll be cathing up with readingg tonight, only 1.5 pages, then going to iso somebody.

You don't even read the thread.

Dom, it seems to me you distrust bcornett. Why make this assertion?

[Dom]

I'll be cathing up with readingg tonight, only 1.5 pages, then going to iso somebody.

You don't even read the thread.

Dom, it seems to me you distrust bcornett. Why make this assertion?

I thought it was a fitting comment to make against someone who said I wasn't even playing and wasn't reading the thread.

[Golden]

@MP - what I want to talk about is this.

You sound like civilian MP to me - thats the gth read I have of you - but I can't deny that others have raised points on you that are persuasive.

What I'd like to know from you is:

What are your current perceptions about who suspects you and why they suspect you?
Do you have responses to those suspicions?
Is there anyone whose suspicion of you, you find disingenuous?

Oh, and what do you think is up with the people thinking you have btsc with Russti when my perception is that the first time he posted you found him suspicious?

[Tangrowth]

So I just looked at the tally... Matt F has 5 votes and is in danger zone. One of those votes is from Glorfindel. Where did Glorfindel post anything regarding his vote? Did I miss it? If not, consider me alarmed.

That makes the third vote for Matt F that I am uncomfortable with. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm officially not voting for him. Most of the wagon is just too easy.

This is absurd. You had been posting consistently about Matt F. You made some really great points. Yet when others vote there you get "uncomfortable" with your own suspicion? Why when it was so consistent and on point? Instead you vote Bass who you, yourself said you wanted to wait for another response from him. Your meaningless vote after the whole day of iso's and suspicions felt like a big cop out.
Then after Matt's reveal you come out with tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden bc he did not push Bass more - huh? Why does what Golden does or votes make so much of a difference with how you vote? Why is it Golden's fault Bass did not get lynched?

You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

Already painting people as bad before the lynch is even over. Sounds like someone wants the ball to roll at Matt voters vs the others. Why? You did not even know Matt''s alignment yet.

Well not bad for Day 1, though I don't like how quickly Matt's wagon developed and the amount of low posters who voted for him.

linki: No he isn't Golden read the EU

Too bad so sad.

Nicely done all you Matt voters.

However this doesn't really give us any information on who the baddies are as he was alone/no btsc.

I think it could give us info, if not now later.

I am now caught up.

If people want to find me suspicious bc my random landed on Matt F so be it. Can't really defend against that suspicion - but maybe thats your point.

Consider me a bit pinged by Roxy's lack of substantive opinions about anyone, even after admitting she is caught up. Roxy can be pretty opinionated... and she's had hundreds of posts to read and form opinions off of. Why nothing?

She seems to throw some gunk here at zebra, but despite all of the questions, it seems to lack conviction... she doesn't even say she suspects her.

What does everyone else think?

[Tangrowth]

@MP - what I want to talk about is this.

You sound like civilian MP to me - thats the gth read I have of you - but I can't deny that others have raised points on you that are persuasive.

What I'd like to know from you is:

What are your current perceptions about who suspects you and why they suspect you?
Do you have responses to those suspicions?
Is there anyone whose suspicion of you, you find disingenuous?

Oh, and what do you think is up with the people thinking you have btsc with Russti when my perception is that the first time he posted you found him suspicious?

These are great questions. Let me get caught up and I'll get back to you... particularly since the bit about BTSC with Russ (??) must be something I haven't read yet.

[Tangrowth]

Sig, this is gonna sound like bullshit, but I definitely misread one of your Day 1 posts as saying that I was looking less Mafia to you, not more. So when I saw you'd voted for me hell yeah I was surprised. I'm sorry if "two faced" came across as an insult, I'm not that petty (and really this is a game where we call each other "scum" all the time). But from an in-game perspective that's exactly what it would've been. I take it back now. You were consistent (ly misguided) when talking about me. I was looking at it wrong.

Zeeb is doing a fine interrogation job with Roxy, I must say. The fact that she's trying to justify her vote for Matt, which she originally said was random... doesn't bode very well. Zebra showcases Roxy's other attempts at misrepresenting her, such as the tons of excuses and guns blazing against Golden. I think Roxy is looking very worthy of some eyes here.

A few scattered thoughts:

I've found myself agreeing with BC and Golden a lot so far. Like I was talking with Alex earlier, maybe it's a playstyle thing, maybe it comes from a shared perspective, I can't know for sure. But for now I'm inclined to trust them.

I don't want to let Russ off the hook, but you know what I suspect? That he's indie. I don't think a Hutt would immediately come into the thread and publicly link his name to the team right now. If you're a Hutt and one of your first posts is bullshit logic about why you want to go to Jabba's palace (or wherever the hell he lives), then that's just extremely silly and way risky. And despite that, I can't make myself believe him! I'm convinced there was an ulterior motive there, the original reasoning didn't quite cut it in the first place and his subsequent posts have read a lot like bullshit to me. Give me a bit and I'll deliver on some troublesome ideas he's had.

These all seem like easy opinions for Enrique to have.

I'm not sure I like it.

[Tangrowth]

INSERT SIRENGIF HERE

Enrique, you're completely misrepresenting me. You snipped my quote.

Consider me greatly pinged.

Then this happens? His first ever mention of MP.

Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone.

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?

Huh? That's a nice WIFOM covered in sarcastic orange but I don't understand the point of this vote.

Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone.

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?

An elaboration when you have the opportunity would be nice, Russ.

Not much to it, really. You're a troublesome sort, and it's a Day 1 vote. I had like 3 minutes and didn't know if I'd be back before the deadline.

For what it's worth, Enrique looks worse than Matt to me. But if I'm being honest, that's probably almost entirely because he voted me and Matt didn't, so my thoughts there might not be worth much.

Linki: Sorry Matt!

"No reason!"

Oh, okay, fair enough I suppose. Let me know if you have any concerns that I can address.

"Fair enough!"

Wait, what? What the hell is this interaction? Am I missing something?

No, seriously. What? Everything about the way they play it off confuses me. "How's that for baddie distancing?" It's so in-your-face I almost have trouble believing it happened. I would have bought a scenario where Russ was trying to get MP's name linked to him, but then MP is just like "hmm, okay!" and I just have no idea of anything anymore.

That last quote has been snipped. This is the full quote:

Late night at work and I have to Skype the fiancee about our Seattle trip that starts tomorrow. Sorry for the flyby vote.

Going with MP, because he's bad to the bone.

How's that for baddie distancing, Mac?

An elaboration when you have the opportunity would be nice, Russ.

Not much to it, really. You're a troublesome sort, and it's a Day 1 vote. I had like 3 minutes and didn't know if I'd be back before the deadline.

For what it's worth, Enrique looks worse than Matt to me. But if I'm being honest, that's probably almost entirely because he voted me and Matt didn't, so my thoughts there might not be worth much.

Linki: Sorry Matt!

Oh, okay, fair enough I suppose. Let me know if you have any concerns that I can address.

If you have an opinion on Enrique looking worse than Matt, then where do I fit in the equation if your logic behind your vote was the underlined?

When you get the chance, elaborate on your thoughts re: Enrique. He's bound to be discussed and heavily in the hotseat tomorrow, so let's be sure we talk about him extensively before we just lynch him (or Bass, who may be in the hotseat as well) outright, and more importantly, other candidates as well.

Do you have any other suspects?

The underlined here is a key bit of my post that Enrique just cut right out of my post. I interrogated Russ's logic right here. I had no reason to respond to anything about the suspicion itself, since it was baseless, but I did ask Russ this question which it seems he hasn't responded to (unless it's still to follow).

Frankly, after the last two posts I've read by Enrique, I'm almost ready to cast my vote for him right now.

[Tangrowth]

I totally see what you're saying yo
Particularly how MP just let's it go
When you look closer you can see
How this tactic came out of BTSC
It just doesn't have any flow

I'm not convinced you actually believe this. Convince me.

[Golden]

I totally see what you're saying yo
Particularly how MP just let's it go
When you look closer you can see
How this tactic came out of BTSC
It just doesn't have any flow

I'm not convinced you actually believe this. Convince me.

And the last line just seems like Mac acknowledging that it was the worst limerick ever.

[Tangrowth]

Golden, the proposed BTSC pairing would be MP and Russ, not me. I think there's a lot pointing towards something going on there, but I'm also hesitant to say they're in a team because if they are then every move related to each other has been so sloppy. It shouldn't be this easy to draw connections, and they should know better than that. The way they interact with each other is so bizarre.

Is that so, Enrique?

How about we all recall how you responded to accusations that you considered to be baseless from Mac's direction?

"uhhh"

"okie dokie"

And you trying to spread shit against me and Russ?

I'm going to go Epi on you right now.

Bullshit.

[Tangrowth]

Get in here, Enrique. I want a duel.

You're full of shit and I'm calling you out.

[Golden]

[Tangrowth]

Ah, yes, thanks Golden, I mean bullsuit.

[Tangrowth]

Well, I'm caught up, and I'm incredibly disappointed. This was a terrible day for the town.

Where the suit is everyone?