Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to disappoint somebody no matter who I vote for. That's just how mafia goes.
I get the pressure. I'm sorry you're in that position. I didn't put you there. I'll try not to be disappointed, LOL, but I can't promise anything.
Please just explain to me the following:
1. how if Matt has so much knowledge, it took him so many days to come around about you? Conveniently, only when Motel room flipped bad.
2. How does he not consider missing something after being so sure about you and "finding out" he was wrong? Why does it not lead him to question Sorsha?
3. Would a civvie be that decisive at the most crucial point in the game? Would he not turn every freaking stone to get to the bottom of things? Would he not have at least 0.000001% doubt?
FZ. wrote:Okay, I've voted Matt. I seriously think I've done everything I can. For what it's worth, I hope Sorsha votes for me too, Matt.
As for MM, you of all people should know how I play as a baddie. Not that I know to tell you the differences...But for crying out loud, you can twist the votes in any way you like, it won't change what really matters. Read interactions between me and the proven baddies, and interactions between Matt and the baddies. Don't think who is bussing who and what, but rather get a feel of the sincerity of the posts. If you honestly find my discussions with them not genuine, vote wherever you have to.
I disagree. In a sense, votes are harder to twist, because they are a concrete action. Rather then trying to understand why you craft sentences certain ways, or why you said what you did about a certain player, I can look and learn that "Oh, today FZ voted for motel room".
FZ. wrote:Okay, I've voted Matt. I seriously think I've done everything I can. For what it's worth, I hope Sorsha votes for me too, Matt.
As for MM, you of all people should know how I play as a baddie. Not that I know to tell you the differences...But for crying out loud, you can twist the votes in any way you like, it won't change what really matters. Read interactions between me and the proven baddies, and interactions between Matt and the baddies. Don't think who is bussing who and what, but rather get a feel of the sincerity of the posts. If you honestly find my discussions with them not genuine, vote wherever you have to.
I disagree. In a sense, votes are harder to twist, because they are a concrete action. Rather then trying to understand why you craft sentences certain ways, or why you said what you did about a certain player, I can look and learn that "Oh, today FZ voted for motel room".
I'm not twisting, I'm noticing a pattern.
Apparently votes are not so hard to twist because even when I vote for the right person, you're turning it around. What about Occam's razor? Did it ever occur to you that this list of votes is actually me voting baddies because i'm a civ?
Too bad llama is not here...
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to disappoint somebody no matter who I vote for. That's just how mafia goes.
I get the pressure. I'm sorry you're in that position. I didn't put you there. I'll try not to be disappointed, LOL, but I can't promise anything.
Please just explain to me the following:
1. how if Matt has so much knowledge, it took him so many days to come around about you? Conveniently, only when Motel room flipped bad.
2. How does he not consider missing something after being so sure about you and "finding out" he was wrong? Why does it not lead him to question Sorsha?
3. Would a civvie be that decisive at the most crucial point in the game? Would he not turn every freaking stone to get to the bottom of things? Would he not have at least 0.000001% doubt?
1) Can't answer, except that Matt's got a big fat mouth.
2) I don't have an answer for this one.
3) Honestly? If it's Matt no. He may not always be right, but he always sounds 100% certain in case you noticed.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to disappoint somebody no matter who I vote for. That's just how mafia goes.
I get the pressure. I'm sorry you're in that position. I didn't put you there. I'll try not to be disappointed, LOL, but I can't promise anything.
Please just explain to me the following:
1. how if Matt has so much knowledge, it took him so many days to come around about you? Conveniently, only when Motel room flipped bad.
2. How does he not consider missing something after being so sure about you and "finding out" he was wrong? Why does it not lead him to question Sorsha?
3. Would a civvie be that decisive at the most crucial point in the game? Would he not turn every freaking stone to get to the bottom of things? Would he not have at least 0.000001% doubt?
As for the last point, all of us have that doubt. Look at you voting for Sorsha. Yet Matt, has none whatsoever. That is the best reason for me to trust Sorsha, knowing there is only one baddie left
FZ. wrote:Apparently votes are not so hard to twist because even when I vote for the right person, you're turning it around. What about Occam's razor? Did it ever occur to you that this list of votes is actually me voting baddies because i'm a civ?
Too bad llama is not here...
I understand the sentiment. But I still want Rico to look at it. He's insanely good at remaining objective, he's confirmed civ, and it's worth looking at.
Ok, MM, Day 11 I have FZ voting Mac, 6th vote out of 6 players, until bea switched to Matt, making it 5th out of 6. Her vote reflects her spat with him from N10, early D11, I think.
I'll probably raise you up and compile the votes of all three.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to disappoint somebody no matter who I vote for. That's just how mafia goes.
I get the pressure. I'm sorry you're in that position. I didn't put you there. I'll try not to be disappointed, LOL, but I can't promise anything.
Please just explain to me the following:
1. how if Matt has so much knowledge, it took him so many days to come around about you? Conveniently, only when Motel room flipped bad.
2. How does he not consider missing something after being so sure about you and "finding out" he was wrong? Why does it not lead him to question Sorsha?
3. Would a civvie be that decisive at the most crucial point in the game? Would he not turn every freaking stone to get to the bottom of things? Would he not have at least 0.000001% doubt?
1) Can't answer, except that Matt's got a big fat mouth.
2) I don't have an answer for this one.
3) Honestly? If it's Matt no. He may not always be right, but he always sounds 100% certain in case you noticed.
Again, we've had so many mistakes made by "informed" civvies. There is no way a civvie wouldn't consider the slightest possibility he may have some misinformation. At some point in the game, after trusting JJJ and defending him with all I had, there was some knowledge I had that made me think maybe I was wrong about him and he was bad after all. That was before the night he was NK in. That obviously proved my initial trust was the right thing, but at some point I was yelling at myself for trusting JJJ so strongly and thought he was working with Sorsha. My point is, every civvie with information has some doubts at some point. Matt is standing on the verge of a cliff between losing and winning. No way would he come in here like that, so sure and not willing to budge if he was good. FFS!
The funny thing is, even as I write this, there's a little voice saying maybe he's not bad, and has wrong information about Sorsha. But like I said, the fact he has no doubt at all is what makes me distrust him the most. I think that's the most important factor you should consider.
linki: Fine, do whatever you need to. Again, I'm sorry for pressuring you. You don't need to help us and you are, so thanks.
I think I've said all I have to say. It's out of my hands now. While you can look at the votes and do with it whatever you want, it's only an assumption, either way. In contrast, you have Matt's behaviour which in no way could be considered a civvie behaviour, and you know it. He gambled on making me look bad, hoping defending Sorsha and MM will make them follow him.
I was wondering why Bea got killed, but I now think that when she said she knew Mac was a protector, it made Matt fear she'll find out something about him at night, hence he killed her. The same could be said about me, but since she was suspicious of him and voted him, it would make sense she would check him. That's the only reason killing Bea makes sense, because we would have probably lynched her.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to disappoint somebody no matter who I vote for. That's just how mafia goes.
I get the pressure. I'm sorry you're in that position. I didn't put you there. I'll try not to be disappointed, LOL, but I can't promise anything.
Please just explain to me the following:
1. how if Matt has so much knowledge, it took him so many days to come around about you? Conveniently, only when Motel room flipped bad.
2. How does he not consider missing something after being so sure about you and "finding out" he was wrong? Why does it not lead him to question Sorsha?
3. Would a civvie be that decisive at the most crucial point in the game? Would he not turn every freaking stone to get to the bottom of things? Would he not have at least 0.000001% doubt?
1) Can't answer, except that Matt's got a big fat mouth.
2) I don't have an answer for this one.
3) Honestly? If it's Matt no. He may not always be right, but he always sounds 100% certain in case you noticed.
Again, we've had so many mistakes made by "informed" civvies. There is no way a civvie wouldn't consider the slightest possibility he may have some misinformation. At some point in the game, after trusting JJJ and defending him with all I had, there was some knowledge I had that made me think maybe I was wrong about him and he was bad after all. That was before the night he was NK in. That obviously proved my initial trust was the right thing, but at some point I was yelling at myself for trusting JJJ so strongly and thought he was working with Sorsha. My point is, every civvie with information has some doubts at some point. Matt is standing on the verge of a cliff between losing and winning. No way would he come in here like that, so sure and not willing to budge if he was good. FFS!
The funny thing is, even as I write this, there's a little voice saying maybe he's not bad, and has wrong information about Sorsha. But like I said, the fact he has no doubt at all is what makes me distrust him the most. I think that's the most important factor you should consider.
linki: Fine, do whatever you need to. Again, I'm sorry for pressuring you. You don't need to help us and you are, so thanks.
I agree with you there. Who knows what happened with the Boomslang thing. However, the LC thing was different. LC never claimed to have information, nor could one make a solid argument he had information. He was right about bea. Mac was a protector, so it's reasonable to think that's a civ role. Anyway, it is worth noting that you voted for him the day he was lynched. Not necessarily bad, just noteworthy. Seeing as he had a powerful civ role and a lot of connections, mafia would have loved to get rid of him. If you are bad, you would have known he was a civ BTSC-obtainer, and thus had strong inclination to off him. But if you are civ, you may have just been in the same boat I was, barking up the wrong tree.
FZ. wrote:
I was wondering why Bea got killed, but I now think that when she said she knew Mac was a protector, it made Matt fear she'll find out something about him at night, hence he killed her. The same could be said about me, but since she was suspicious of him and voted him, it would make sense she would check him. That's the only reason killing Bea makes sense, because we would have probably lynched her.
The thing about bea reading Mac's implication could be post interpretation (keep in mind it took like an entire cycle to figure out what Mac was trying to say, regardless of it being BS maneuver) or maybe something to do with her tracking position 5. There's nothing in her role about reading something into a player's role, although I get your point about Matt maybe fearing that.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to disappoint somebody no matter who I vote for. That's just how mafia goes.
I get the pressure. I'm sorry you're in that position. I didn't put you there. I'll try not to be disappointed, LOL, but I can't promise anything.
Please just explain to me the following:
1. how if Matt has so much knowledge, it took him so many days to come around about you? Conveniently, only when Motel room flipped bad.
2. How does he not consider missing something after being so sure about you and "finding out" he was wrong? Why does it not lead him to question Sorsha?
3. Would a civvie be that decisive at the most crucial point in the game? Would he not turn every freaking stone to get to the bottom of things? Would he not have at least 0.000001% doubt?
1) Can't answer, except that Matt's got a big fat mouth.
2) I don't have an answer for this one.
3) Honestly? If it's Matt no. He may not always be right, but he always sounds 100% certain in case you noticed.
Again, we've had so many mistakes made by "informed" civvies. There is no way a civvie wouldn't consider the slightest possibility he may have some misinformation. At some point in the game, after trusting JJJ and defending him with all I had, there was some knowledge I had that made me think maybe I was wrong about him and he was bad after all. That was before the night he was NK in. That obviously proved my initial trust was the right thing, but at some point I was yelling at myself for trusting JJJ so strongly and thought he was working with Sorsha. My point is, every civvie with information has some doubts at some point. Matt is standing on the verge of a cliff between losing and winning. No way would he come in here like that, so sure and not willing to budge if he was good. FFS!
The funny thing is, even as I write this, there's a little voice saying maybe he's not bad, and has wrong information about Sorsha. But like I said, the fact he has no doubt at all is what makes me distrust him the most. I think that's the most important factor you should consider.
linki: Fine, do whatever you need to. Again, I'm sorry for pressuring you. You don't need to help us and you are, so thanks.
I agree with you there. Who knows what happened with the Boomslang thing. However, the LC thing was different. LC never claimed to have information, nor could one make a solid argument he had information. He was right about bea. Mac was a protector, so it's reasonable to think that's a civ role. Anyway, it is worth noting that you voted for him the day he was lynched. Not necessarily bad, just noteworthy. Seeing as he had a powerful civ role and a lot of connections, mafia would have loved to get rid of him. If you are bad, you would have known he was a civ BTSC-obtainer, and thus had strong inclination to off him. But if you are civ, you may have just been in the same boat I was, barking up the wrong tree.
I was in the same boat as you. I initially trusted LC and then when he was wrong about jjj and also going after me, it made me think he couldn't be good and be that wrong. This was by far my worst vote during the game, and believe me, I regret it...or don't.
FZ. wrote:
I was wondering why Bea got killed, but I now think that when she said she knew Mac was a protector, it made Matt fear she'll find out something about him at night, hence he killed her. The same could be said about me, but since she was suspicious of him and voted him, it would make sense she would check him. That's the only reason killing Bea makes sense, because we would have probably lynched her.
The thing about bea reading Mac's implication could be post interpretation (keep in mind it took like an entire cycle to figure out what Mac was trying to say, regardless of it being BS maneuver) or maybe something to do with her tracking position 5. There's nothing in her role about reading something into a player's role, although I get your point about Matt maybe fearing that.
Maybe, but none of us knew what her power was. All we had was what she said
I'm going to do some quotes just for fun on Matt's little serenade song about hinting and then leaving us hanging.
Matt wrote:It wasn't me, Marmot. I'm actually scared right now that you're going to use that special vote of yours on me based on your later "I only trust Sorsha" comment, but I didn't trick you. You know what I've been through this game.
Matt wrote:You don't know what I know. That's all that can be said.
Matt wrote:you aren't aware of my entire play this game. It's a nice defense, but MM knows why I've done a turn on him.
Matt wrote:All I can say is you know everything. Every single thing. You know what could've happened had I been here when LC was lynched. You know my fun times with juliets. Everything. I didn't make that shit up.
Matt wrote:Again, FZ, you don't know everything I know. Why don't you ask MM why he's so sure on Sorsha? Why just me?
Matt wrote:Lulz. I know it sounds outstanding, but it's true.
Fuck, MM even knows it's true, I don't know why he's having such a hard time with this!
MM wrote:Thread material Matt.
Matt wrote:Marmot, do you believe me or not? FYI, I had a good time yo, and if you vote against me, no hard feelings, but you will be wrong. I am civ.
Matt wrote:Lulz, I would say "that's not possible" but then I wouldn't be able to explain why.
MM wrote:Can't answer, except that Matt's got a big fat mouth.
I forgot to add to my eclectic box the possibility of MM and Matt forming a recruit or bond team now - either the newt selecting Matt or viceversa. Anyway, something like forming a hidden team. Or one last BTSC/messaging pair. Or a death god finding his Mel-
All those quotes are making feel like sharing something too. MM, last day, there was a reason I told you I trusted you to not disappoint us and vote for the right person. Let's just say your vote carried a lot of weight.
linki: I was considering that possibility. But then, would MM really have to fake being so confused between us for so long? I don't think so.
Ok, here be votes. Won't be able to mention every vote reasoning, because I haven't finished compiling the Day-by-Day re-reads.
Day 1
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Wilgy policy voted Fuzz, 4th permvote out of 27 that voted, I think
Matt next with 5th permvote out of 27, voting MM (policy vote)
Elohcin right after, 6th permvote out of 27, voting Rico (frustration and oddball suss)
Mac at some point afterwards, bantervote on me, then 8th permvote on LoRab (N0 suss based vote)
Sorsha, more towards EoD, 20th out of 27, LoRab (N0 case vote)
Lynch result: Papryco. No Llama baddies or candidates in lynch contention.
Day 2
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Wilgy, early again, 3rd out of 23(?), votes sig (D2 sudden casemaking)
Mac, 5th out of 23, votes sig
FZ, 13th out of 23, votes juliets (biggest ping)
Motel, 14th out of 23, votes sig
Matt, 18th out of 23, votes MM
Sorsha, 19th out of 23, votes LoRab
Lynch result: sig. No Llama baddies or candidates in lynch contention.
Day 3.0
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Mac, tempvote on Matt
Wilgy, 5th out of 20 that voted, votes JJJ
Matt, 7th out of 20, votes Llama
Sorsha, 8th out of 20 votes LoRab
FZ., 14th out of 20, votes LoRab
Mac, 17th out of 20, votes JJJ
Motel, 19th out of 20, votes LoRab
Lynch result: JJJ (survives). No Llama baddies or candidates in lynch contention.
Day 3.5
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Matt, 9th out of 22 that voted, votes MM, leaves it like that for the rest of the phase (JJJ=5, LoRab=2, MM=1, FZ=1)
Mac, tempvote on Tranq (JJJ=5, LoRab=2, MM=1, FZ=1)
Sorsha, 11th out of 22, votes LoRab, LoRab-JJJ wagons fairly formed by now (JJJ=5, LoRab=3, MM=1, FZ=1)
FZ, 13th out of 22, votes MM; MM not yet third wagon, but soon snowballs into one (JJJ=5, LoRab=3, MM=2, FZ=1)
Mac, switches to LoRab, tempvote, ties her to JJJ (JJJ=5, LoRab=5, MM=3, FZ=2)
Wilgy, switches to LoRab, tempvote, pushes her in front (JJJ=5, LoRab=6, MM=5, FZ=3)
Mac, switches to FZ, 20th out of 22, pushes her into the four tie (JJJ=5, LoRab=6, MM=5, FZ=5)
Wilgy, switches to MM, 22th out of 22, incidentally recreates a tie, despite wanting to break it (JJJ=5, LoRab=5, MM=5, FZ=5)
Ok, so I'll admit this is intrigued. The dealbreaker for me in thinking FZ. is bad would be Mac's permvote pushing her into the lynch. It makes no sense and I don't imagine FZ. ever forgiving teamie Mac for something like this or at least not barking like mad at him.
Then again... they had motel's vote removal (who didn't bother to come in), Wilgy pushed for LoRab or MM, so there might just not have been actual stress about FZ. being in the front. But... could motel's vote removal be used during the Day phase, for a specific task?
So, please... please... walk me through why this Day phase is FZ. teamie indicative?
Hosts: Was motel's room power able to be Day activated?
Lynch result: LoRab. No Llama baddies in lynch contention. Only Llama baddie candidate in contention: FZ
Couldn't sleep and decided to do some research. I've still got more to sort through, but here's a few things that are interesting...
1) MM, if Sorsha is really silenced and this isn't some elaborate scheme (which I severely doubt), then I think bea targeted me last night. Position 4 won the "who to rezz" poll, and position 4 on bea's power list is "redirect a player's power". She was sussing me yesterday, and after Rico's brilliant suggestion of blocking me, that has to be why Sorsha is silenced.
2) I'm getting the vibe that FZ is claiming to be a vote manipulator. She's made references to her having knowledge of your vote having WEIGHT, MM. She's also asked Sorsha to vote for her today, which I thought was her just being weird, however perhaps she set Sorsha's vote at 0 or -1. I say this because after looking at her ISO some more, at one point she claims that she had knowledge of 3J's (and someone else, forget) vote being worth 0 on a certain day. Now what's super interesting is this...
Remember the Harry Stephen Keeler Mafia indy team theory, MM? Something about the indy team in that game being the bad team in this game. I just checked and the indy team in that game had two vote manipulators on it. motel was Li Ling Lee, and I think FZ might be Napoleon Foy, the Laundryman from that game. A variation in power, but the same.
Now CHECK THIS OUT. This is where it gets real fun. MM, you know what I can do. FZ just admitted what she can do. Let's look at a couple of polls keeping this in mind, and keeping in mind that FZ has vote manip.
On Day 9, it was between Draconus and Motel room. At end of day, the lynch appeared to be 6 - 4, motel to be lynched. However, if motel was fed that night, and if FZ is on their team and vote manipulated some WEIGHT onto motel or Mac's vote, then that would mean the actual vote is 5 - 5, a tie. And as we see in the story post when Drac dies, motel and drac are in some kind of duel to the death. I think that lynch was really a tie, because of motel's and FZ's vote manips.
Anyway, I'm tired as hell, and I'm finally headin' to sleep. I think FZ just admitting she has a vote manip answers that day's strange lynch of Draconus and makes her look bad as shit, tbh.
Seriously peeps, FZ is bad bad bad. G'night, we'll resolve this tomorrow one way or the other.
Day 4
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Sorsha, 5th out of 19 that voted, voted Tranq
Mac, tempvote right after on Tranq
Matt, tempvote on Boom
Matt, 7th out of 19, votes Llama
Motel, 8th out of 19, votes DH
FZ, 12th out of 19, votes Llama
Wilgy, 16th out of 19, votes Dom
Mac, 17th out of 19, votes JJJ
Lynch result: Llama. Look at that baddie vote direction split. Each of the three candidates could qualify themselves. No Llama baddie or candidate in lynch contention.
Day 5
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Sorsha, 1st vote out of 16 that voted, votes JJJ
Matt, 2nd vote out of 16, votes Sorsha
Mac, tempvote on Matt
FZ, 4th vote out of 16, votes MM
Wilgy, tempvote on Dom
Mac, tempvote switch on Dom
Mac, tempvote switch on MM
Mac, 11th out of 16, votes Tranq
Wilgy, 14th out of 16, votes JJJ
Motel, 16th out of 16, votes Tranq
Lynch result: Tranq. Split wagon votes from baddies. 2 out of 3 candidates are rather distant from this. No Llama baddie or candidate in lynch contention.
Day 6
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Mac, tempvote on Matt
FZ, 4th out of 12 that voted, votes LC
Sorsha, 7th out of 12 that voted, votes LC
Mac, 8th out of 12, votes Draconus (starts Draconus snowballcounterwagon)
Matt misses his vote. Wilgy and motel miss their votes.
Lynch result: LC. The lulz if Matt is last baddie, i.e. 3 out of 4 didn't bother with this lynch one bit. The other 2 candidates are smack into mislynching LC. Question arising is if one of them is the baddie and Mac distanced himself by voting Draco, if Matt is the baddie and Llama team let it all be.
This also must be the third or fourth time Mac shot earlyvotes at Matt, even if not permvotes.
No Llama baddie in lynch contention. Not sure about candidates, because FZ. had like two votes on her (LC and Draconus), then the LC-Draco wagons got solid.
Day 7
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Mac, tempvote on Boom
Matt, 1st out of 12 that voted, votes MM (Wilgy at 2)
FZ, 3rd out of 12, votes Wilgy (Wilgy at 3)
Mac, 4th out of 12, votes MM (Wilgy at 2)
Motel, 7th out of 12, votes MM (Wilgy at 3)
Sorsha, 10th out of 12, votes Boom (Wilgy at 5)
Wilgy, 11th out of 12, votes Boom (Wilgy at 5)
[MM takes vote off Wilgy, brings Wilgy at 4, tied with Boom and himself]
Lynch result: Boomslang. Llama baddie in contention: Wilgy. Llama team candidate in contention: none.
Well, this is an infamous one. Mac and Motel's moves are pretty clear (MM was pushed in fact to 5 votes, including motel's vote). If FZ distanced and bussed Wilgy, it wasn't really in the team's best interest. What shall we make of Matt aligning himself with the baddies' moves? What shall we make, even to this Day, of Sorsha following Wilgy into the Boomslang snafu?
Day 8
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Mac, 1st out of 11 that voted, votes Draconus [Sorsha=3, Draco=1]
Wilgy, 2nd out of 11 that voted, votes Draconus [Sorsha=3, Draco=2]
Sorsha, 7th out of 11, votes Draconus [Sorsha=0, Draco=3, Wilgy=4]
Motel, 8th out of 11, votes Wilgy [Sorsha=0, Draco=3, Wilgy=5]
Matt, tempvote on MM
Matt, 9th out of 11, votes Draconus [Draco=4, Wilgy=5]
FZ, 10th out of 11, votes Draconus [Draco=5, Wilgy=5]
Lynch result: Wilgy, survives. Llama baddies in contention: Wilgy, duh. Llama team candidates in contention: Sorsha, if brief.
Well, lol, every candidate is guilty here. Lol at that Matt's tempvote on MM, it's like he wasn't even paying attention to the rest. Baddie moves looked pretty clear, although it's notable that Mac and Wilgy voted Draco over Sorsha, while early in the run, and lol, motel bussed Wilgy. So keep in mind the "yeah, Wilgy would survive this mentality" coupled with "yeah, we can try to push for Wilgy to not get lynched after all and save us another Day".
Sorsha would probably come out looking awful with her Draco preference over Wilgy, so y'all should probably checked what compelled Matt and FZ. to go with Draco over Wilgy and how do the three compare.
Day 9
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Sorsha, tempvote on Motel [motel=2]
Matt, tempvote on MM [motel=2, MM=1]
Mac, tempvote on Draco [motel=2, MM=1, Draco=1]
Mac, switch tempvote to MM [motel=2, MM=2]
Sorsha, switchtempvote on Draco [motel=1, MM=2, Draco=1]
Motel, 2nd out of 10 that voted, votes Draconus [motel=2, MM=2, Draco=2]
FZ., 4th out of 10, votes Motel [motel=4, MM=2, Draco=2]
Mac, tempvote on Juliets [motel=7!, MM=1, Draco=2]
Sorsha, 8th out of 10, votes Draconus [motel=7, Draco=3]
Mac, 9th out of 10, votes Draconus [motel=7, Draco=4]
Matt, 10th out of 10, votes Draconus [motel=7, Draco=5]
Lynch result: Draco, despite trailing 5-7. Heck, let's say 5-6, if motel used his vote removal bleach. Llama baddie in contention: Motel. Llama baddie candidate in contention: none.
Another case, probably since D3.5, of "how is this indicative of FZ. being teamie". Although, given that we're talking about motel room, it could be easy buss move.
Mac tried to push a Draco counterwagon, question is whether Sorsha or Matt followed him on that. Matt was busy with MM for a while, Sorsha was Draco focused all the time. It would make Matt look slightly worse, but Sorsha teamie could have yet again reasons to stick with her conviction and look good.
Day 10
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Mac, 1st out of 8, votes MM [motel=1, MM=1]
Matt, 2nd out of 8, votes MM [motel=1, MM=2]
Motel, 4th out of 8, votes MM [motel=1, MM=4]
FZ., 5th out of 8, votes Motel [motel=2, MM=4]
Sorsha, 8th out of 8, votes Motel [motel=4, MM=5]
Lynch result: motel, despite trailing 4-5; heck maybe even 3-5. Llama baddie in contention: motel again. Llama baddie candidate in contention: none.
Yet again, did-she-buss or is-she-clear vote read on FZ. Even Sorsha joins her this time, with her vote. Matt is smack within the let's lynch MM party, that still had two baddies working on it.
Day 11
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Matt, 1st out of 6, votes Mac [Mac=1]
Sorsha, 2nd out of 6, votes Mac [Mac=2]
Mac, 3rd out of 6, votes Matt [2-1]
FZ, 5th out of 6, votes Mac [5-1]
Lynch result: Mac. Lynch baddie candidate in contention: Matt.
Welp, whoever it is, he/she bussed him. FZ had spat on her side, Matt weaved some doubts and inquiry-related ("why didn'tya vote to rezz El Seeee?!") sussing, Sorsha I can't recall off the top of my head.
Matt wrote:1) MM, if Sorsha is really silenced and this isn't some elaborate scheme (which I severely doubt), then I think bea targeted me last night. Position 4 won the "who to rezz" poll, and position 4 on bea's power list is "redirect a player's power". She was sussing me yesterday, and after Rico's brilliant suggestion of blocking me, that has to be why Sorsha is silenced.
FFS, you could at least try to add "I think" and reasons why a silencing might have happened for the first time in a 13-cycle game. I think + rest of sentence. Try it. Do it! Don't let your tunnels be tunnels!
Also, so someone else silenced you, but bea redirected that person onto Sorsha. Is that what you're saying?
Matt wrote:Couldn't sleep and decided to do some research. I've still got more to sort through, but here's a few things that are interesting...
1) MM, if Sorsha is really silenced and this isn't some elaborate scheme (which I severely doubt), then I think bea targeted me last night. Position 4 won the "who to rezz" poll, and position 4 on bea's power list is "redirect a player's power". She was sussing me yesterday, and after Rico's brilliant suggestion of blocking me, that has to be why Sorsha is silenced.
2) I'm getting the vibe that FZ is claiming to be a vote manipulator. She's made references to her having knowledge of your vote having WEIGHT, MM. She's also asked Sorsha to vote for her today, which I thought was her just being weird, however perhaps she set Sorsha's vote at 0 or -1. I say this because after looking at her ISO some more, at one point she claims that she had knowledge of 3J's (and someone else, forget) vote being worth 0 on a certain day. Now what's super interesting is this...
Remember the Harry Stephen Keeler Mafia indy team theory, MM? Something about the indy team in that game being the bad team in this game. I just checked and the indy team in that game had two vote manipulators on it. motel was Li Ling Lee, and I think FZ might be Napoleon Foy, the Laundryman from that game. A variation in power, but the same.
Now CHECK THIS OUT. This is where it gets real fun. MM, you know what I can do. FZ just admitted what she can do. Let's look at a couple of polls keeping this in mind, and keeping in mind that FZ has vote manip.
On Day 9, it was between Draconus and Motel room. At end of day, the lynch appeared to be 6 - 4, motel to be lynched. However, if motel was fed that night, and if FZ is on their team and vote manipulated some WEIGHT onto motel or Mac's vote, then that would mean the actual vote is 5 - 5, a tie. And as we see in the story post when Drac dies, motel and drac are in some kind of duel to the death. I think that lynch was really a tie, because of motel's and FZ's vote manips.
Anyway, I'm tired as hell, and I'm finally headin' to sleep. I think FZ just admitting she has a vote manip answers that day's strange lynch of Draconus and makes her look bad as shit, tbh.
Seriously peeps, FZ is bad bad bad. G'night, we'll resolve this tomorrow one way or the other.
If I was bad, why on god's name would I hint that when all everyone is looking at is the votes and how no baddies died when I voted for them. Man, if you want to make bullshit up, at least make it plausible, okay?
I will ask one last time and if you don't answer me I will be sure you are bad:
Knowing Bea was wrong about Mac after having "information" and knowing Boomslang was wrong after having "information" and not even considering the load of crap you posted for days regarding how Dom had undoubtedly with no shred of doubt investigated MM and got a "baddie" result on him, are you not considering you could be wrong about Sorsha? Also, you leave those bread crumbs hinting at your "information", why did it take you so long to gather the information on MM when you were clearly after him for at least 3 days?
Matt wrote:On Day 9, it was between Draconus and Motel room. At end of day, the lynch appeared to be 6 - 4, motel to be lynched. However, if motel was fed that night, and if FZ is on their team and vote manipulated some WEIGHT onto motel or Mac's vote, then that would mean the actual vote is 5 - 5, a tie. And as we see in the story post when Drac dies, motel and drac are in some kind of duel to the death. I think that lynch was really a tie, because of motel's and FZ's vote manips.
Yeah, I have a lot of powers. I can take you all down with my little finger. Any more powers you want to add to what I have?
Matt, if by any small tiny chance you are a civ, take you butt out of your head and consider that I'm not bad. What would it mean regarding your notions of Sorsha and MM? If you're not even willing to consider it, I will feel fine if we lose the game because of you (no matter your alignment).
What? I don't know what you just said Rico.
Look, I've had enough. I keep saying I've said all I have to say but it's just so ridiculous I can't help but keep posting. I've wasted enough time on this. If the indy and the other civvie want to lose the game, it's their prerogative.
Matt wrote:Couldn't sleep and decided to do some research. I've still got more to sort through, but here's a few things that are interesting...
1) MM, if Sorsha is really silenced and this isn't some elaborate scheme (which I severely doubt), then I think bea targeted me last night. Position 4 won the "who to rezz" poll, and position 4 on bea's power list is "redirect a player's power". She was sussing me yesterday, and after Rico's brilliant suggestion of blocking me, that has to be why Sorsha is silenced.
Matt wrote:Couldn't sleep and decided to do some research. I've still got more to sort through, but here's a few things that are interesting...
1) MM, if Sorsha is really silenced and this isn't some elaborate scheme (which I severely doubt), then I think bea targeted me last night. Position 4 won the "who to rezz" poll, and position 4 on bea's power list is "redirect a player's power". She was sussing me yesterday, and after Rico's brilliant suggestion of blocking me, that has to be why Sorsha is silenced.
Are you admitting that you can silence players?
Oooh, so the other way around.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:I think the indy will win regardless, because he said he needs a certain number of baddies left alive and I guess that number is one.
GTFO! NO!
Your eyes say no, but your Super Bowl commercial says yes.
So I don't think you told me whether you went camping with Matt or not.
Matt wrote:Couldn't sleep and decided to do some research. I've still got more to sort through, but here's a few things that are interesting...
1) MM, if Sorsha is really silenced and this isn't some elaborate scheme (which I severely doubt), then I think bea targeted me last night. Position 4 won the "who to rezz" poll, and position 4 on bea's power list is "redirect a player's power". She was sussing me yesterday, and after Rico's brilliant suggestion of blocking me, that has to be why Sorsha is silenced.
Are you admitting that you can silence players?
No, I don't know who can silence. As Rico pointed out, I don't recall anyone being silenced all game so I'm thinking it must be a power won from one of the night polls or some other unknown prize.
What I'm saying up there, is given who I targeted last night, HOW is it possible for someone to be silenced?
I figure, though, if bea was sussing me as she was, and she was in position 4 as she was, it's logical to assume she targeted me, and redirected MY POWER elsewhere.
Matt wrote:
Do you remember what I did? Are you following?
I'm not and that's what matters.
Re-reading Day 4 now, Matt was curious about certain players being able to post or not. It didn't lead to anything back then but... Does this have to do with this silencing phenomenon?
I admit this doesn't exactly prove I'm right, I could've just been "acting", but please observe...
On Day 4, I came up with a wild theory in my head that Boomslang may have been lying about being question cursed on a certain day, because of what positions we were at, and how nobody was posting in questions yet on a day they should've been. Eventually, it was pointed out that Lorab most likely controlled the position the night before, so it wouldn't necessarily be a question curse anyway (and this is all before Boom flipped and saw he was the question curser and how it didn't even have to do with positions!)...anyway, I'm thinking up my wild theory, and check it out...
Matt wrote:Hmmm.
Can Sorsha, Niju, Wilgy Llama, and Tranq all post? I'm working on a theory, thanks! Or if you've already posted on Day 4 and I missed it, can you please quote the post for me?
Appreciate it!
Okay. So I've gathered everyone else up at this point, and the above 5 were the only ones not to post yet that day to see if my theory about no question curser existing that day was correct. Following so far?
Matt wrote:Thanks Niju
Now I just need Sorsha, Wilgy, LLama, and Tranq.
Niju posts and now I just needed four more to prove my theory that Boom was a liar (well at least I thought so in my head at the time). Still following?
Matt wrote:Thanks Sorsha/Llama. And haha, no not this time Sorsha
Wilgy and Tranq - please post, thank you!
Sorsha and Llama post, and now I JUST NEED Wilgy and Tranq to post to prove that I may be right in my theory on Boomslang. At this point, btw, I'm super psyched that I might actually prove something here.
Matt wrote:I'm going to place a vote on Boomslang for now. I'd have preferred to have waited until everyone posted, but right now, I'm feeling good about my theory. I still won't be sharing until both Wilgy/Tranq post, or when the day ends, so I understand if nobody wants to follow my vote today.
I also find it curious that Boomslang, of all people, immediately tried to interrupt and make fun of my "Super Secret Theory". Very interesting, indeed!
I get ahead of myself and vote Boomslang. Wilgy and Tranq have yet to post, but neither of them had been posting all that much anyway, and at this point, I REALLY think I'm right on my theory. I am super effin' pumped...but then...
Matt wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Have bea and motelroom posted at all toDay? They don't have links on the first page...
Oh. Now that sucks.
bea, motel room, please post if you haven't posted on Day 4.
Dang it, I was so close!!!
Linki - Tranq, now that's interesting. Hmmm. Please post again, Tranq.
Now CHECK IT.
If motel room was my teammate, you are suggesting that I COMPLETELY FORGOT HE WAS PLAYING when working on my Boomslang theory.
Anyway, I'm not bad. Please vote FZ.
FZ, btw, ya know what, I'm not 100% on Sorsha. In fact, MM knows I'm not 100% on Sorsha. However, I strongly believe her to be civvie. I just do. I strongly believe MM to be for the civ cause.
Why is Sorsha deemable good? What should I be looking at?
Since I made another post, I'll just post my Day 4 analysis.
>DrWilgy... banter refusal to post [when asked by Matt to do so], banters with Mac on being suss'd by him, reviews LoRab with the bullsuit mention of there being only one team, votes Dom; berates bea and juliets on Llama votes
>motel room... derp vote on DharmaHelper; banter rebuttals
>Mac... focuses on Kubrick reveal, Boomslang kill, suss's Tranq further, wants a tie again, keeps pressure on Tranq being lynched, banter with JJJ; banter rebuttals to FZ. on supporting ties the previous Day, switches to Llama; switches to JJJ; suss's Wilgy out for inactivity
---
>FZ... comments on HB's kill, calling out MM, DH or a LoRab voter; wants to focus on D3.0 voters who tipped the scale for JJJ; suss's Dom; suss's DH for D3.0 anti-counterwagon hystericals; bothered by Tranq and llama as inactive wagons; votes Llama, but gradually scared by outcome; banter with Mac on tie outcomes; inquires Mac on not pushing Wilgy lynch for lurking
>Matt... contemplates moving out of MM tunnel; suss's FZ, JJJ?; wants people (incl. Sorsha and Wilgy) to post, based on theory; votes Boom on theory; discards theory practice, votes Llama
>Sorsha... tempvotes Tranq; keeps vote there, in protest for lurky gaming
====
Slight ping for FZ. and Wilgy somehow finding a common suss to share in Dom (after which Wilgy stayed on it, but FZ. moved on). Clash with Mac could be well too on-the-nose to be real, but by God, do we know MacBaddie to be an antagoniser. Matt could be guilty once more of minding his own tunnel mining (this time with a bonus wacky theory to test out); Sorsha went mostly dark during this phase. All three confirmed baddies scattered their votes, but Mac was the closest to keep his vote relevant (on Llama), something that 2 out of 3 (FZ., Matt) also contributed too, whilst Sorsha took the other route. So not a great Day to extract ideas out of.
Matt, if you're not sure about Sorsha and it's not you, than it has to be her. I swear I'm a civ. Look at all my actions during this game. Like I said, if you are a civ, I don't know how you're not even willing to consider you are wrong. This is nuts.
>Wilgy... comes only to vote (Dom again), calls it picking on JJJ's theory; keeps talking with JJJ until he turns on suss'ing him
>motel... no time, jumps on Tranq
>Mac... bides his time on re-voting JJJ; calls out Wilgy again; votes Matt for posting BS; suss' juliets in reply to FZ.; tie chaos moves; wants Draco to switch to Matt; happy with Tranq or MM being lynched, after tie chaos recedes; suss's Dom for his civ claims; switches to Tranq; also picks a fight with Wilgy, vexed at comparison with Tranq
---
>FZ... [Night 4 actually] continues sarc spat with Mac; focused on whether to trust or not LC; rebuttals with DH and Dom
[Day 5] absent a lot; suss's MM for involvement; questions on juliets; values Tranq more than MM; votes MM
>Matt... focuses on Sorsha and MM; votes Sorsha, half in NO U; picks on Mac dropping LoRab suss; talk with Dom about his meta; rebuttal on him and Mac placing "flier votes", rather vexed, restates desire to lynch MM; finds LC civvie
>Sorsha... votes JJJ; comments on Matt playing subdued; pinged by Matt and Dom asking people about her at the same time; ends Day with vexed exchange with Matt
===
Baddie votes scattered again, Mac doing the most jumps throughout the day. All there candidates have had a pretty bad Day to be ISO'd, frankly. FZ missed out a lot, only to stay clear of Tranq wagon, but pressure vote MM on the same topic and bring back juliets as an old (and a bit pointless) suss. Also that N4 exchange with Dom has the vibe of her having made a risky comment and then having to deal with backlash from a confirmed civilian. Matt tunnels onwards with MM, but also focuses on Sorsha and engages with her; exchange with JJJ could also be a testy moment. Sorsha dumped a JJJ vote early on with no background that I can notice and just took rebuttal cues from Matt.
So basically none of these three candidates went along with a confirmed baddie's plan, but all three could have had, during D5, their trial of facing suss or questions or engaging in heated talk. Wilgy and FZ. picking on Dom again raises me an eyebrow.
FZ. wrote:Matt, if you're not sure about Sorsha and it's not you, than it has to be her. I swear I'm a civ. Look at all my actions during this game. Like I said, if you are a civ, I don't know how you're not even willing to consider you are wrong. This is nuts.
It's hard to talk about this because people keep saying "rules rules!", but though I strongly believe her to be civ, I've even theorized myself (and maybe with SOMEONE ELSE derp a derp) that she isn't who she says she is.
Also, btw, I had a strange feeling in the back of my mind that there was a certain piece missing to this whole "silence" thing, and I just remembered...
Remember when I posted that Dom quote about how to act as a civ rolechecker. I'm not going to do the work for you, but check out the thread "What's your least favorite mechanic" in the Don's Hideout forum. Check out Turnip's answer to that question, and I have to wonder if Sorsha is even really silenced.
I dunno dude. All I know is I'm not mafia. And if I had to pick between you and Sorsha being the last baddie, it would be you based on your admitting you have a vote manip, and how that correlates with the indy team in Stephen Keeler being the baddie team here.
MM - If Zebra had some sort of "alignment" switcheroo on her team, do you think it's possible the other team has that as well? Hence why we think Sorsha is good?
So you and MM had some BTSC during the night? At least that's how it sounds. What does it prove? Last time someone had BTSC with some people, he wrongly trusted them. This means nothing. I think that if you're seriously a civ, you should really consider you're wrong.
It might be that Sorsha is letting us fight between us because if we don't believe her and vote for her, she loses because I don't think she can do much with her vote.
FZ. wrote:So you and MM had some BTSC during the night? At least that's how it sounds. What does it prove? Last time someone had BTSC with some people, he wrongly trusted them. This means nothing. I think that if you're seriously a civ, you should really consider you're wrong.
It might be that Sorsha is letting us fight between us because if we don't believe her and vote for her, she loses because I don't think she can do much with her vote.
I do think it's fucking odd that someone is suddenly silenced on LYLO (which I'm assuming this is with "Finish It" as the poll title???) when there hasn't been a silenced player all game that we know of.
I don't know. Regardless, I'm not bad. If MM votes for me, and it's LYLO, then that means civs lose.
FZ. wrote:Matt, if you're not sure about Sorsha and it's not you, than it has to be her. I swear I'm a civ. Look at all my actions during this game. Like I said, if you are a civ, I don't know how you're not even willing to consider you are wrong. This is nuts.
It's hard to talk about this because people keep saying "rules rules!", but though I strongly believe her to be civ, I've even theorized myself (and maybe with SOMEONE ELSE derp a derp) that she isn't who she says she is.
Also, btw, I had a strange feeling in the back of my mind that there was a certain piece missing to this whole "silence" thing, and I just remembered...
Remember when I posted that Dom quote about how to act as a civ rolechecker. I'm not going to do the work for you, but check out the thread "What's your least favorite mechanic" in the Don's Hideout forum. Check out Turnip's answer to that question, and I have to wonder if Sorsha is even really silenced.
I dunno dude. All I know is I'm not mafia. And if I had to pick between you and Sorsha being the last baddie, it would be you based on your admitting you have a vote manip, and how that correlates with the indy team in Stephen Keeler being the baddie team here.
MM - If Zebra had some sort of "alignment" switcheroo on her team, do you think it's possible the other team has that as well? Hence why we think Sorsha is good?
Matt, damn it. you come in all sure of yourself and this nearly cost us the game. I am not lying. I checked this with the hosts a while ago and said some stuff in the thread. I even considered back then that Sorsha is bad because of what I knew. The only reason people backed off Sorsha, at least for me, is mostly because you were defending her so strongly. I really thought you were good, but I'm now left with 2 options and I figured if you won't even consider I'm a civ, it's you and not her. I'm now thinking you're just so tunnelling that you can't think straight.
Why why why would I hint at what I did at this stage if all it does is make me look worse? I knew when I was saying what I did, that MM and Rico were doing a vote check. All my voting for baddies would look bad, wouldn't it? Please, for crying out loud, think about this!! I don't want to lose the game because two civvies voted for each other. That would be such a disgrace.
In light of what you said, I'm changing my vote to Sorsha. I suggest you do the same because this has all been a very bad mess.
Ok, taking a break to highlight all the remaining baddie and indy roles from Llama's games. So far I don't think their description has been altered, so maybe it's a good sign for projecting:
Skinner Peeler Keeler
Macleish MacPherson - The Crooked Doctor - Can dispense medicine that does a variety of unsavory and often illegal things.
Ivan Kossakoff - The Strangler - Can silence every night.
Reed Bardeen - The Millionaire Anarchist - Becomes more powerful the more votes he takes (that don’t kill him.)
Gustav Shrik - The Banker - Can store papers in his vault.
Napoleon Foy - The Laundryman - Can wash another player’s clothes to remove a lynch vote. Clean people are less suspicious. [I doubt, btw, in two vote removers in the same mafia team. Just FYI]
Wah Hung Fung - The King of Chinatown - Can target one person and learn one item they have.
Ichabod Chang - The Chinese Thief - Can steal from someone each night.
Remaining Indies sound pretty lax or repetitive for me to believe they'd exist and have great influence. Unfortunately, I checked and Llama never clarified his baddie abilities, but some of those sound important, especially Kossakoff and Bardeen.
Not Archer
Killface - Supervillain out to push the Earth into the Sun. Incredibly strong. His vote counts double.
Simon - Killface's son. Simon always mumbles, but can spread this condition to other players, insanifying them [unlikely]
Phil - Killface's employee. Manages to survive cancer, phitoxin and a crab claw through his torso. Will survive his first death. [nope]
Sinn - Killface's top servant, indentured servant that is. Searches for Grace and Val. If all three find each other, they become an indy team: “The Sisterhood of Chaos” [ pointless, except if retconned]
Mr. Ford - His ass is everywhere. Gets a random player’s night power every night. [hmmm]
Torpedo Vegas - Runs the death rabbits in Chinatown. Three nights per game can hold death rabbit fights, which players bet on. If they win, they get goodies, but if they lose they get lynch votes. Torpedo Vegas gets better stuff the more people who bet. [hmm]
Hooker - Blabbity mouth hooker. Learns one player’s role each night, but can be blackmailed into learning the wrong role. If the person she targets chooses, she can be protected from night actions and to learn the wrong role. She will be unaware of this. Has BTSC with Old Spice.
Old Spice - Worked in a Chinese sweatshop before meeting Hooker. Each night, offer a player a radish. which they can eat to remove a lynch vote, or throw at someone to add a lynch vote. Has BTSC with Hooker. [HMMMMMMM]
Stan - Runs the Crews company when Xander is too lazy to do it, but has no real allegiance except to himself. Briefly masqueraded as Awesome-X. While he is alive, one of the Xtacles’ heads will explode every day. [pointless]
This time, a more decent indy crop than a baddie one, except maybe Killface. That Hooker - Old Spice tandem has me looking at you two, Matt and MM.
Ca$h
Karl Marx - Dictatorship of the proletariat - Once per Night, chooses to target a player and destroy a random item (Kapital) they are holding, or to redistribute one dollar from a player of his choice to another. [maybe in connection with Monopoly players, otherwise meh]
David Ricardo - Ricardian equivalence - Prevents tax cuts [...ok...]
Robert Solow - Convergence/growth theory - uses technology to improve his items [...]
Oblique Strategies
Well, this is a headscratcher, because the setup was unusual. Arc of Dove wasn't bad per se, just part of an indy-like team. Here's the role roll, good luck.
FZ wrote:Matt, damn it. you come in all sure of yourself and this nearly cost us the game. I am not lying. I checked this with the hosts a while ago and said some stuff in the thread.
Why why why would I hint at what I did at this stage if all it does is make me look worse? I knew when I was saying what I did, that MM and Rico were doing a vote check.
Point me in the right direction, FZ. Please. I'm really suck at this in this game.
Fuck. I don't know what to do. MM, come back. Do you think Sorsha could be faking her silence? Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switcheroo as Team Noses did?
Linki - Rico, yeah, me and MM are a team and we're putting off piling on Sorsha and FZ for fucking giggles.
You don't have to pile on votes to be on a team. I didn't imply you are indies with your own agenda.
Then again, MM is implying to be newt, so maybe I could imply that as well. We've also been short of an indy, considering the previous Champies had four of them.
That's just how mafia goes.
Fiddler on the Roof
