[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Turnip Head]

Would anybody be able to articulate a case against Nero? I'm reading him as town so far, and all I see is an honest townie trying to figure out the game when I look at his posts.

Why are you reading Nero as town?

The short version is that in our one previous game together, I had a scum read on him right away and this game his tone and effort seem much more sincere. I'll give some examples later when I'm able to.

Okay. I remember you saying something similar about Scotty in that you read him correctly as bad from the getgo somewhere else and you were right and don't feel that way here. I like to think Nero wouldn't have rolled baddie for his third straight game but you never know I don't really have a read on him but his framing of the opposition to the Gleam bandwagon felt odd. Like did he really think that that's what was happening or was he just throwing it out there?

[Epignosis]

- Epignosis seems absent. He is always weird and hard to read, but this time he is that AND absent. He is usually more active, and more of a protagonist in the game (recall Pikmin and Economics). And his d1 vote on Wilgy (although justifiable by Epi standards) could be an easy cop out of he was mafia. So I'm uneasy about him.

I don't like using it as an excuse, but I am hosting Arkham. I finally caught up in that thread after being behind all day. I'm still catching up in this one.

[Golden]

- Epignosis seems absent. He is always weird and hard to read, but this time he is that AND absent. He is usually more active, and more of a protagonist in the game (recall Pikmin and Economics). And his d1 vote on Wilgy (although justifiable by Epi standards) could be an easy cop out of he was mafia. So I'm uneasy about him.

I don't like using it as an excuse, but I am hosting Arkham. I finally caught up in that thread after being behind all day. I'm still catching up in this one.

I think there is a difference between an 'excuse', and simply the truth of why you haven't caught up. There are only so many hours in the day. Uou would never intentionally be behind if you could help it.

[Marmot]

indiglo said I bounced back and forth on gleam.

I voted him and asked him to talk. He talked. I moved my vote.

I said gleam gets lynched or killed often early and I didn't want to be a part of that.

I later said if Wilgy is bad, then gleam is too. That's an if-then proposition.

MM says I refused to vote gleam...but part of his post against me is that I voted gleam.

Is that a fair summary of my dealings with gleam?

Was there any "bouncing?"

Part of my post is that you voted gleam, yes. That was the point. You voted for gleam, then later refused to vote for gleam after you moved your vote. You used those words too.

You later offered a scenario where gleam was bad, which relied on DrWilgy also being bad. Why did you later state that you don't understand the six votes on gleam? You offered a reason for gleam being bad. Why did you dismiss others' reasons for him being bad?

I am inferring from this that it is okay for you to suspect gleam, but not okay for others to suspect gleam.

[Marmot]

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Yeah man I'm pretty lost. I'm thinking I'll toss a vote onto Metalmarmot for now. He's trying too hard to be a good little civ, I see right through his charade

Care to elaborate, Mr Turnip?

Look at him asking questions and mediating and building cases and shit. But who knows what he's up to behind closed doors? That marmot is up to no good I tell ya

Lulzy.

This smiley has always been here.

[Tangrowth]

FYI we have had 3 players ask for replacement. I've been searching, but I haven't been able to find one yet, and I'm beginning to doubt that we will be able to replace 1, let alone all 3 of these players any time soon. If you know anyone who isn't playing and would like to, please let me and Daisy know.

Also, on this note, we all think you've been doing a (more than) excellent job so far this game being engaged. We understand though that it's been a talkative thread. As long as you all submit your night power (if you have one), vote in the polls, and are having fun, that's good enough for us. So don't feel pressured otherwise. You all are doing great.

[Tangrowth]

FYI we have had 3 players ask for replacement. I've been searching, but I haven't been able to find one yet, and I'm beginning to doubt that we will be able to replace 1, let alone all 3 of these players any time soon. If you know anyone who isn't playing and would like to, please let me and Daisy know.

When I get lynched can I replace back in? I mean looking at my lynch/death rate I could probably replace all three within about hmmm 2 phases? :P

[thellama73]

Gleam has really come into his own in mafia! I feel so proud.

Yes, let's kill him.

[Epignosis]

indiglo said I bounced back and forth on gleam.

I voted him and asked him to talk. He talked. I moved my vote.

I said gleam gets lynched or killed often early and I didn't want to be a part of that.

I later said if Wilgy is bad, then gleam is too. That's an if-then proposition.

MM says I refused to vote gleam...but part of his post against me is that I voted gleam.

Is that a fair summary of my dealings with gleam?

Was there any "bouncing?"

Part of my post is that you voted gleam, yes. That was the point. You voted for gleam, then later refused to vote for gleam after you moved your vote. You used those words too.

You later offered a scenario where gleam was bad, which relied on DrWilgy also being bad. Why did you later state that you don't understand the six votes on gleam? You offered a reason for gleam being bad. Why did you dismiss others' reasons for him being bad?

I am inferring from this that it is okay for you to suspect gleam, but not okay for others to suspect gleam.

I don't understand the reasons why people think gleam is bad.

And I no longer think Wilgy is bad either.

[Turnip Head]

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Yeah man I'm pretty lost. I'm thinking I'll toss a vote onto Metalmarmot for now. He's trying too hard to be a good little civ, I see right through his charade

Care to elaborate, Mr Turnip?

Look at him asking questions and mediating and building cases and shit. But who knows what he's up to behind closed doors? That marmot is up to no good I tell ya

Lulzy.

This smiley has always been here.

That is a bold faced lie, I am sure of it. What reason does a civ have to lie about such things?

[thellama73]

I don't understand the reasons why people think gleam is bad.

And I no longer think Wilgy is bad either.

I'm a little nervous about the gleam wagon, but more nervous about the Ika one. For me, Gleam's speculation about Wilgy and MP's host action was very bizarre, and makes me distrust him.

[Epignosis]

I don't understand the reasons why people think gleam is bad.

And I no longer think Wilgy is bad either.

I'm a little nervous about the gleam wagon, but more nervous about the Ika one. For me, Gleam's speculation about Wilgy and MP's host action was very bizarre, and makes me distrust him.

Can you give me a link to what you're talking about?

I'm watching the Magic somehow lose to the Lakers.

[thellama73]

I don't understand the reasons why people think gleam is bad.

And I no longer think Wilgy is bad either.

I'm a little nervous about the gleam wagon, but more nervous about the Ika one. For me, Gleam's speculation about Wilgy and MP's host action was very bizarre, and makes me distrust him.

Can you give me a link to what you're talking about?

I'm watching the Magic somehow lose to the Lakers.

Yes. This.

Also, can we discuss the fact that Socky used his one-time power last night? I see a tie between Wilgy and Diiny, and yet only Diiny gets arrested. I'm wondering if Socky's power was the ability to save a teammate, or to manipulate the votes in such a fashion that Diiny was the one to get arrested.

Diiny was the Sockface famiglia traitor. I'm wondering if Sock saw that one of his two of his underlings were about to get lynched, and chose the one who could possibly defect to take the fall.

I'm thinking about it more, and I think in that case, Wilgy is a civ, and a SockCiv at that.

Also, I see you lurkin, Turnip Head. What's up?

[Epignosis]

I don't understand the reasons why people think gleam is bad.

And I no longer think Wilgy is bad either.

I'm a little nervous about the gleam wagon, but more nervous about the Ika one. For me, Gleam's speculation about Wilgy and MP's host action was very bizarre, and makes me distrust him.

Can you give me a link to what you're talking about?

I'm watching the Magic somehow lose to the Lakers.

Yes. This.

Also, can we discuss the fact that Socky used his one-time power last night? I see a tie between Wilgy and Diiny, and yet only Diiny gets arrested. I'm wondering if Socky's power was the ability to save a teammate, or to manipulate the votes in such a fashion that Diiny was the one to get arrested.

Diiny was the Sockface famiglia traitor. I'm wondering if Sock saw that one of his two of his underlings were about to get lynched, and chose the one who could possibly defect to take the fall.

I'm thinking about it more, and I think in that case, Wilgy is a civ, and a SockCiv at that.

Also, I see you lurkin, Turnip Head. What's up?

The speculation is bad, I agree. Is he a cop for speculating in that manner?

[Marmot]

indiglo said I bounced back and forth on gleam.

I voted him and asked him to talk. He talked. I moved my vote.

I said gleam gets lynched or killed often early and I didn't want to be a part of that.

I later said if Wilgy is bad, then gleam is too. That's an if-then proposition.

MM says I refused to vote gleam...but part of his post against me is that I voted gleam.

Is that a fair summary of my dealings with gleam?

Was there any "bouncing?"

Part of my post is that you voted gleam, yes. That was the point. You voted for gleam, then later refused to vote for gleam after you moved your vote. You used those words too.

You later offered a scenario where gleam was bad, which relied on DrWilgy also being bad. Why did you later state that you don't understand the six votes on gleam? You offered a reason for gleam being bad. Why did you dismiss others' reasons for him being bad?

I am inferring from this that it is okay for you to suspect gleam, but not okay for others to suspect gleam.

I don't understand the reasons why people think gleam is bad.

And I no longer think Wilgy is bad either.

As sure as eggs is eggs.

[thellama73]

The speculation is bad, I agree. Is he a cop for speculating in that manner?

Not sure. That's why I am still huntin' dragons.

[Enrique]

Lynching ika feels like it's lynching him because we don't understand him. Someone said that they cannot fathom his behavior as town, but can you fathom it as mafia either? To me it looks like ika doesn't give two shits about "behaving like town". I'm liking the energy he's bringing to the thread whether it's typical town behavior or not.

linki @ Llama: Well that's because it's more pleasant when you're around

I'm just kinda skimming over the last several pages but I wanted to say I agree with this completely. People's insistance of bringing the conversation back ika rubs me very wrong.

[Enrique]

to

[agleaminranks]

If my speculation is bad :[ then what are your reasons for dropping suspicions on Wilgy, Epignosis? I mean I agree with you but I want to hear your reasoning too.

[Epignosis]

If my speculation is bad :[ then what are your reasons for dropping suspicions on Wilgy, Epignosis? I mean I agree with you but I want to hear your reasoning too.

I pay attention. That's why.

[Enrique]

Wow.

Well, if you can´t reference to posts and find bits of proof then how do you want us to agree with you? Why do you want to do ISO´s if you don´t want to analyse them?

Man.

i do analize them and most times i reach a conclusion based on skimming and what i feel i mean i could go role outing on people. cus thats what i look for in reading it, roles

Have you found anything?

yes i have found someone who is probally the hitman/don

damnnn tho lol

[Enrique]

Tranq may have been inactive, but he is also a very very good mafia player, who often manages to avoid attention from lynch and nk for long enough to do real damage. It says two possible things to me

1) at least one or two of the cops know tranq well, and wanted him out of the way early, or
2) Daisy wanted to take away one of sockface's players and picked someone she thought would be dangerous long term.

I think those are more likely than the cops simply taking him out for being inactive.

Does this mean that you have at the very least a neutral read for Scotty?

I think it'd be a bit of a bold move from Scotty to put himself in this position so early.

[RadicalFuzz]

hey uzz what caught your eye?

Sloonei pointed out that you had said you would ISO Wilgy but we had yet to see any results of that ISO. Usually when someone goes through another player's post history they publicly analyze it, both to check their own logic and conclusions and to share those conclusions, along with discussion if need be. I appreciated him reminding us of your failure to deliver.

Indiglo as I understand it an "ISO" is going through a specific player's post history, not just a normal reread. There's a nifty button that can list all posts a user has posted in the current topic just below the avatar, which makes the process much easier.

Agreed, to an extent. I think we will likely find them to be functionally identical, but perhaps we'll have a late-game poll for releasing a single arrested player.

Linki: Ah yes, the Prisoner sockpuppet accounts. Yes, they are probably anonymously in a chat together. Although the anonymity of socks would be irrelevant given that they arrive one at a time, right when players are arrested. The anonymity will be for us. They'll show up at some point.

That's a very astute observation LC, I appreciate that.

To make things clear Silverwolf, if I take issue with you doing something I'll let you know so we can have a chat. It's much easier to be direct than to be passive-aggressive and speak in implications.

Sloonei I enjoy your stance on vote explanation.

i mena if it helps i aslo think luffy is twon

Why? What facts lead you to that conclusion?

protip: im a gut player so logic and reasons are thing si never use nor do i use posts

So you form conclusions without logic or posts, but with gut alone. Do you prefer pizaaz also, or is that not kosher?

Congrats Scotty! Not bad for a red shirt.

These observations about Epi's inconsitencies are interesting. Is he historically a "feel" based player or is he more concrete?

Also, on this note, we all think you've been doing a (more than) excellent job so far this game being engaged. We understand though that it's been a talkative thread. As long as you all submit your night power (if you have one), vote in the polls, and are having fun, that's good enough for us. So don't feel pressured otherwise. You all are doing great.

This is disgustingly positive. Like, Troop Leader Snickerdoodle-Baking Flowers & Sunshine positive.

[Tangrowth]

Also, on this note, we all think you've been doing a (more than) excellent job so far this game being engaged. We understand though that it's been a talkative thread. As long as you all submit your night power (if you have one), vote in the polls, and are having fun, that's good enough for us. So don't feel pressured otherwise. You all are doing great.

This is disgustingly positive. Like, Troop Leader Snickerdoodle-Baking Flowers & Sunshine positive.

Well, it does help that my team's not doing too shabby so far.

Also, way to change my host color.

[Silverwolf]

i will also defend her form that kind of crap too and if it end up coming here we will jsut leave. i joined a while back and invited her here. if this is hwo it is then i will jsut leave and she will come with me.

im going before i get irate and go into cap lock

Caps lock is the least of my concerns. A shift press now and again would be nice.

Sigh..........

[Enrique]

agleaminranks is so intense lol. No negative read, I just really enjoy reading his posts. hardcore stuff

[RadicalFuzz]

What is it, light blue? Is that even a color?

[thellama73]

What is it, light blue? Is that even a color?

In Russian, light blue and dark blue have different color words.

[Tangrowth]

What is it, light blue? Is that even a color?

It's color #0080FF.

[Sloonei]

Reasons I think Nero is town:

What is the point of asking silverworlf, or any player at all, if they are town? Also if silverwolf is the player you feel you can read the best, why are you focusing so much on her? Shouldn't you work on the players you can't read so well?

Reactoins, reads, what they say. I mean theres like endless reasons to ask it in general. To undertsand ym you first need to knwo i need a person i can talk to and trust. silver is the only person here i knwo and i can read acurately. So if shes scum i push her hard to get her lynched. If shes town we have the ultimate syagery and can decimate scums.

Players i cant read so well (aka everyone else) im not trying to sort on a day 1 phase. it would be more around mid/late day 2/day 3 where i try to do so

What are you going to do if Silverwolf appears to you as town? Who are you going to vote for today if you don´t have any reads?

@ Matt I agree that is strange. But is it alignment indicative? I don´t think so.

In the one other game I played with him (Zodiac) he was bad (and I know everyone but me, llama, and G-man was bad in that game, but still!) and I noticed on Day 1 Nero was just hopping on board with a lot of pre-existing cases and didn't really appear to be trying to figure things out. This post here reads as a genuine Thought Process to me. He's asking questions and getting involved. Ditto on this follow up post where he puts a vote on ika. He has a series of posts focusing on ika/silverwolf, and I have no trouble reading these posts as a series of progressing thoughts about the two of them as he asks questions and gets answers. I can see his thought process unfolding and it makes sense.

He also has a few other posts where he points out things that he find suspicious, but doesn't go overboard on them. He doesn't seem too hasty to name a suspect, and is letting the game come to him at a natural pace. I like that, it indicates to me, again, that his thought process is a natural and honest one.
Examples: here, here, here.

He hasn't posted the most content in the thread, but Nero has struck me as one of the most consistent and agreeable players in the thread so far this game. I haven't seen any big cases made against him, but I don't really understand why there would be one. If someone's got a case, please share it.

[Epignosis]

Reasons I think Nero is town:

What is the point of asking silverworlf, or any player at all, if they are town? Also if silverwolf is the player you feel you can read the best, why are you focusing so much on her? Shouldn't you work on the players you can't read so well?

Reactoins, reads, what they say. I mean theres like endless reasons to ask it in general. To undertsand ym you first need to knwo i need a person i can talk to and trust. silver is the only person here i knwo and i can read acurately. So if shes scum i push her hard to get her lynched. If shes town we have the ultimate syagery and can decimate scums.

Players i cant read so well (aka everyone else) im not trying to sort on a day 1 phase. it would be more around mid/late day 2/day 3 where i try to do so

What are you going to do if Silverwolf appears to you as town? Who are you going to vote for today if you don´t have any reads?

@ Matt I agree that is strange. But is it alignment indicative? I don´t think so.

In the one other game I played with him (Zodiac) he was bad (and I know everyone but me, llama, and G-man was bad in that game, but still!) and I noticed on Day 1 Nero was just hopping on board with a lot of pre-existing cases and didn't really appear to be trying to figure things out. This post here reads as a genuine Thought Process to me. He's asking questions and getting involved. Ditto on this follow up post where he puts a vote on ika. He has a series of posts focusing on ika/silverwolf, and I have no trouble reading these posts as a series of progressing thoughts about the two of them as he asks questions and gets answers. I can see his thought process unfolding and it makes sense.

He also has a few other posts where he points out things that he find suspicious, but doesn't go overboard on them. He doesn't seem too hasty to name a suspect, and is letting the game come to him at a natural pace. I like that, it indicates to me, again, that his thought process is a natural and honest one.
Examples: here, here, here.

He hasn't posted the most content in the thread, but Nero has struck me as one of the most consistent and agreeable players in the thread so far this game. I haven't seen any big cases made against him, but I don't really understand why there would be one. If someone's got a case, please share it.

It amazes me that you can have that kind of read on Nerolunar based on Zodiac. You have Wligy levels of perception.

[Sloonei]

I'm confused why you think that was a null game. I was only in it for Day 1, at which time none of the 9 scums knew what kind of game it was. They all presumably would been thinking along normal scum lines, and their behavior should have reflected that. Unless you want to tell me you knew exactly what the setup was from the very beginning.
But also I'd probably still be reading him as town even if that game never happened. Nothing about his posts seems dishonest to me.

[Marmot]

Who's Wligy?

[Marmot]

A typo: the ultimate Epignosis scumslip.

[Matt]

'Sides Golden, Quin is reading funny to me. Can't put my finger on it. Perhaps an ISO is in order!

[Sloonei]

A typo: the ultimate Epignosis scumslip.

Highly interesting...

[Quin]

'Sides Golden, Quin is reading funny to me. Can't put my finger on it. Perhaps an ISO is in order!

Do it! This is the first time anybody's even talked about me, I was getting lonely.

[Matt]

'Sides Golden, Quin is reading funny to me. Can't put my finger on it. Perhaps an ISO is in order!

Do it! This is the first time anybody's even talked about me, I was getting lonely.

Ah shucks. That's no good! Nice to meet you, Quin, and welcome to the Syndicate.

I'm off all day tomorrow, I'll be sure to make room in my schedule for a proper ISO of you!

[Silverwolf]

I just want to kind of bounce off of what Sloonei was saying here, I think a lot of ika's posts have been in defense of Silverwolf and her strategy, which given their personal connection outside of the game I think is fine. You'd want your S/O to be on your side after all. I think he's calling town because he wants her to be town. I guess I don't have a problem with that, I don't think it's a good strategy but I understand. That being said, with regard to any other defenses ika has also felt fleeting, as far as contributing to the game outside of Silverwolf's domain.

ika and I have played together a lot. If he thought I was scum, he'd be pushing me hard. It isn't just because he wants me to be town. It's because I am town, and he knows it. He is very good at reading me. Discrediting a townread on me for IRL reasons is bad. I don't like this at all. If you think I'm scum, you should be voting me. Instead you are dancing around the issue and I don't like this.

I still think Silverwolf is acting irrationally and illogically and, above all, scummily. I wouldn't have cast any suspicions on ika during Silverwolf's accusation of me, but the last couple pages has me reconsidering. I understand frustrations from feeling personally attacked, but I don't know if it's good enough of a reason to excuse the lack of participation. I would favor a vote for either above others right now now, but I don't like doing retaliatory votes and I also dislike bandwagon votes.

I am also confused. Not liking retaliatory voting and not liking bandwagons are terrible reasons not to vote a person who you think is scum. If I have someone I think is scummy, I won't hesitate to vote them and try to lynch them. Yet again, you are dancing around the issue, trying to build up support from others, before you are willing to take any sort of action on this. Again, like I've said before, I've noticed it more with scum than town that they are unwilling to move their votes around. Mostly because it draws attention on them they don't like. I've had scum games where I've kept my vote on one person the whole day phase. And this is coming from a site where a day can be two weeks long.

I would also think that in a time like this when the heat is focused on a specific small group of people, the nonparticipants have the best opportunities to hide under all the ruckus. It's a tactic sure to favor baddies. If the next few days turn out to be civilian lynches I think the no-shows right now would be the best place to look, moving forward. I don't know if I'll survive the day at this rate.
Holy linki.

Here is something you said I like, and absolutely agree with. I've seen and done it myself as scum-just sit back and let town implode-it's easy to do when active players are arguing and drawing all the attention on themselves. In most cases, there is usually at least one scum among the inactives and I think we need to look at that group of people more closely in the coming days.

[Silverwolf]

but now I just need to ask Silverwolf to give me another read on another player, so let's go with Quin.

I have no read on Quin right now and need to ISO. So far she hasn't done anything that has stuck out to me one way or another. I do think people who are this unreadable are worth looking into more though as she seems to be UTR-under the radar which I don't really care for much.

[Sloonei]

Quin is a gentleman

[Silverwolf]

Quin is a gentleman

So sorry about that Quin!!

[Quin]

Well, I don't blame you for the mistake. What bloke walks around in thongs all day?

[Quin]

I am curious as to why you would label me as 'Under the radar', though. I feel like I've been in the thick of things since the beginning.

[Marmot]

I am curious as to why you would label me as 'Under the radar', though. I feel like I've been in the thick of things since the beginning.

Under the radar may have nothing to do with what you're doing, at least directly. If nobody is talking about you (as you just pointed out recently), that's also flying under the radar.

[Serge]

Hello everyone, sorry for missing out on the last day. I've read up until page 15, hopefully I'll catch up tomorrow.

I'm quite surprised at the number of new players in this specific game. The thread is going so fast and references on other games flash by here and there. Let us be civil(no pun intended), it seems some sparks are flying.

Who/what is a linki? When I catch up hopefully I'll be able to form a clearer picture. If it doesn't come in that form, I'll make that investigation board instead. No matter what happens, I'll cast a vote this day phase.

Hello again Serge, "linki" refers to when a new post pops up during the time you are typing your own new post.

What would you say is your general strategy on Days 1 & 2 of a Mafia game? Has this game been busier than what you are accustomed to?

Hullo Sloonei, I have just arrived at your post. Thanks to you and that other person that explained linki.

I don't like 0s and 1s as they usually revolve around random guessing and nitpicking the tiniest bits of text that may be construed as scummy. An example would be llama saying that Luffy complaining that the game is hard for cops is scummy is an example.

For Day 2, I generally put who got lynched and nightkilled front and center, using the posts from the previous day to try and find any links as to how both these things transpire.

I'm going to resume reading now, see you when I catch up.

[S~V~S]

I am curious as to why you would label me as 'Under the radar', though. I feel like I've been in the thick of things since the beginning.

Under the radar may have nothing to do with what you're doing, at least directly. If nobody is talking about you (as you just pointed out recently), that's also flying under the radar.

To me having no real opinions counts as flying low. Quin is not flying low, IMO.

I will read back this AM at work.

[Serge]

Can someone tell me if the clock on the front page is the same time everyone is seeing?

[Serge]

@thellama73, is your vote for Luffy serious? If so, why?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Can someone tell me if the clock on the front page is the same time everyone is seeing?

The clock is set according to your timezone settings. If it's not the same as the one where you live you should adjust it at the control panel.

To me it's 9:50 now, because I'm in Brazil.