[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Serge]

Thanks! MP actually just told me that. It's really nifty and useful.

[a2thezebra]

I am curious as to why you would label me as 'Under the radar', though. I feel like I've been in the thick of things since the beginning.

Under the radar may have nothing to do with what you're doing, at least directly. If nobody is talking about you (as you just pointed out recently), that's also flying under the radar.

To me having no real opinions counts as flying low. Quin is not flying low, IMO.

I strongly agree. This is a pretty big game so can be under the radar without flying under the radar, you dig?

[Silverwolf]

I am curious as to why you would label me as 'Under the radar', though. I feel like I've been in the thick of things since the beginning.

Because, while you are posting a lot, I don't have a real good read on you.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

@Nerolunar, you said you wouldn't lynch ika on day 1 because his presence in the game would make it easier for you to read SW.

How did that change on day 2?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Did a quick read on gleam's posts. They aren't as bad as day 1s, but still don't feel right. He is still going on about the evils of lynching townies while tunneling pretty hard on SW. Says he'll focus on WIlgy but I've yet to see that. Sheeps people on Epi. Brings up the possibility of hunting inactives. The guy is all over the place and it's not a civ place.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

RadicalFuzz is fishy. He is just staying in the sidelines asking people random questions and commenting on what is currently going on, but he hasn't actually posted any suspicions of his own. He is aware of what's going on, but is not actually participating. Feels like blending.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

RadicalFuzz

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Might come back to gleam at the end of the day if it's still between him and ika (I don't want to lynch ika), but for now I wanna stop tunneling for a while.

[Epignosis]

I'm confused why you think that was a null game. I was only in it for Day 1, at which time none of the 9 scums knew what kind of game it was. They all presumably would been thinking along normal scum lines, and their behavior should have reflected that. Unless you want to tell me you knew exactly what the setup was from the very beginning.
But also I'd probably still be reading him as town even if that game never happened. Nothing about his posts seems dishonest to me.

It wasn't a mafia game. It was more like Last Man Team Standing, so I don't see how anyone puts stock in it when determining what someone would or would not do as Mafia. No, I didn't know what the setup was from the beginning, but I had a much better idea after Day 1. Can you accurately measure someone's Mafia game based on a Day 1?

[Sloonei]

I'm confused why you think that was a null game. I was only in it for Day 1, at which time none of the 9 scums knew what kind of game it was. They all presumably would been thinking along normal scum lines, and their behavior should have reflected that. Unless you want to tell me you knew exactly what the setup was from the very beginning.
But also I'd probably still be reading him as town even if that game never happened. Nothing about his posts seems dishonest to me.

It wasn't a mafia game. It was more like Last Man Team Standing, so I don't see how anyone puts stock in it when determining what someone would or would not do as Mafia. No, I didn't know what the setup was from the beginning, but I had a much better idea after Day 1. Can you accurately measure someone's Mafia game based on a Day 1?

I can certainly use the evidence that I have.

[Sloonei]

Moved my vote back to ika for the time being. I still kind of want to lynch him, but I don't feel like keeping the vote there. I just don't knlw who else to put it on. I just woke up so my head will be more clear in an hour.

[Sloonei]

Oh, I'll vote for SVS because I want a response to this:

I also find myself quoting the way SVS handled her vote on me earlier in the day. She seemed to put her vote on me because she thought I was lying about who this post was addressing, saying the context made it seem more like I was talking to DDL and not Gleam, as I claimed:

Yes, that quote appears to be addressed to DDL, not gleam. This seems somewhat deceptive.

But if she had checked the context, as she seems to have done, then she should have also seen this post as well right in the center of the context at that time, in which I clarified there and then about who the post was addressing. It struck me as a very odd reason to put a vote on a person. There was a piece of evidence directly confirming the thing she was questioning right in front of her face, and she put a vote on me that seemed like it was designed to be moved off. Did you not really suspect me, SVS? Were you just trying to get my attention? This is not something I am used to you doing with your votes.

Not to mention that after taking her vote off me, she moved onto Gleam, the 5th person on that wagon.

[Sloonei]

Did a quick read on gleam's posts. They aren't as bad as day 1s, but still don't feel right. He is still going on about the evils of lynching townies while tunneling pretty hard on SW. Says he'll focus on WIlgy but I've yet to see that. Sheeps people on Epi. Brings up the possibility of hunting inactives. The guy is all over the place and it's not a civ place.

I tend to think being all over the place is a good thing.

[thellama73]

@thellama73, is your vote for Luffy serious? If so, why?

Yes. I continue to interpret his comments about the difficulty cops have in arresting Dons as frustration about a personal win condition that is difficult to achieve.

[thellama73]

Quin is a gentleman

I agree with this.

[Sloonei]

Yet somehow also he manages to be a scalawag.

[Sloonei]

@thellama73, is your vote for Luffy serious? If so, why?

Yes. I continue to interpret his comments about the difficulty cops have in arresting Dons as frustration about a personal win condition that is difficult to achieve.

Has anything else in his posts aftet that caught your eye in the same way?

[Sloonei]

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

[Epignosis]

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

Why me?

[Sloonei]

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

Why me?

You don't seem as aggressive as usual. It's disconcerting.

[Nerolunar]

@Nerolunar, you said you wouldn't lynch ika on day 1 because his presence in the game would make it easier for you to read SW.

How did that change on day 2?

He hasn´t really done that yet as far as I can see, and has instead been all over the place regarding his playstyle (doing ISOs yet not providing reads, trying to discuss the power roles and weird fluff about his and Silvers relationship) and that makes me want to lynch him. I thought he could be an asset but all we have got are distractions and a lack of effort. Looks like scum to me.

Im reading Silver as town myself, and Ika hasn´t voiced suspicion of her either, so there is that.

[Epignosis]

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

Why me?

You don't seem as aggressive as usual. It's disconcerting.

People have been saying that about me for the past several months.

[Nerolunar]

Sorry Wilgy. I can't vote for you anymore. Something else came up.

Wait, quite a few people have been voicing disagreement against the Gleam wagon. Is this a coordinated cop effort to steer the thread in a specific direction?

Go on...

Wow.

Well, if you can´t reference to posts and find bits of proof then how do you want us to agree with you? Why do you want to do ISO´s if you don´t want to analyse them?

Man.

Uh-huh. Nerolunar. Is the thread being steered? Who is doing the driving?

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Have you figured it out yet?

No. A grammar and spelling manual would do wonders.

i do analize them

Ooooow.

Pursuing Ika right then seemed much more appropiate than trying to focus on the disagreement with the Gleam lynch. I got some fine answers from him that made me vote for him. We got to know Ika better and thats way more valuable than following through with my previous thoughts.

It pinged me that you were so quick to vote for me based on this. Were you pinged by me before? If so, where and why?

[Sloonei]

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

Why me?

You don't seem as aggressive as usual. It's disconcerting.

People have been saying that about me for the past several months.

I am referencing as far back as Rocky & Bullwinkle.

[Sloonei]

Epi's Nero suspicion is also a reason I'm voting ror him, for what it's worth. It seems like a very isolated thing to pull out of his posts. He can point to a few things that raise his suspicion in Nero, but I think the suspicions are all greatly diminished if you look at the full context of Nero's post history.

[Sloonei]

In other words, I think he is twisting things and stretching the truth to fit into his case. This is something I think Epi is more likely to do as scum than town.

[Marmot]

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

Why me?

You don't seem as aggressive as usual. It's disconcerting.

People have been saying that about me for the past several months.

I would like to see some evidence for this. What recent mafia game did another player accuse you of being less aggressive?

Linki: Sloonei, I don't think you can use Rock and Bullwinkle as a reference point since it's still an ongoing game.

[indiglo]

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

I actually disagree with you on all 3 of these vote prospects. I haven't seen anything from SVS yet that reads scummy, Epi's response to my questions has satisfied me for now, and I won't be voting ika because I think it's mean.



I was actually leaning towards perhaps a Matt vote, but then he posted this:

'Sides Golden, Quin is reading funny to me. Can't put my finger on it. Perhaps an ISO is in order!

And actually Quin read funny to me too. I just ISO'd (oh man, it feels weird to type that and not say I did a Quin re-read) and something felt funny. He kind of jumped around from suspicion to suspicion, not really holding on to any of them, and deciding to change his vote when his previous suspicion didn't gain any traction. Quin, I'm not sure have a concrete question to ask you, but I'd like to hear anything you can provide as to your thinking or developing of suspicions.

Then as I think about it, I wonder if my weirdness meter is actually tweaked because you changed your vote so many times. And that all goes back to my old school ways - one vote and you're done for the day. And I gather that with changeable votes, it seems to be encouraged to move them as many times as you can, making your first few changes null and void. In that case, my not voting yet may look strange to someone used to changeable votes.


I did notice Quin mentioned Enrique, so I'm happy to check there to see if I see what Quin saw. Ah, there I do have my first concrete question for you - How are you feeling about Enrique now? And what changed/affected your mind?

I also think it's a little strange to see the Tranq NA (Night Arrest) and then immediately assume Scotty did it and is a cop, and try to push that idea. Maybe it seems a little opportunistic? Do you still believe that to be the case Quin? (That Scotty NA'd Tranq, that is.)



Planning to look over Golden's posts now to see if anything feels funny. Also cannot wait to see how much linki there will be...

Yep, tons. Will post then read.

[Marmot]

I'm adding Sloonei to my list btw. Enjoy your stay Sloon.

[Tangrowth]

Come on, Team Sockface! Catch those cops and crush those Daisy troublemakers!

[DrWilgy]

I can ship the Epi boat.

[Sloonei]

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

Why me?

You don't seem as aggressive as usual. It's disconcerting.

People have been saying that about me for the past several months.

I would like to see some evidence for this. What recent mafia game did another player accuse you of being less aggressive?

Linki: Sloonei, I don't think you can use Rock and Bullwinkle as a reference point since it's still an ongoing game.

Epi was nightkilled and widely considered a town read for everyone. I highly doubt he was bad.

[Sloonei]

I'm adding Sloonei to my list btw. Enjoy your stay Sloon.

What list? Should I be nervous or thrilled?

[indiglo]

I'm adding Sloonei to my list btw. Enjoy your stay Sloon.

What list? Should I be nervous or thrilled?

My guess? YES!!


For now, I'm going to go ahead and put a vote on Matt. I will be back at some point to continue reading, and see if anything happens / is said to change my reads.

[Epignosis]

Sorry Wilgy. I can't vote for you anymore. Something else came up.

Wait, quite a few people have been voicing disagreement against the Gleam wagon. Is this a coordinated cop effort to steer the thread in a specific direction?

Go on...

Wow.

Well, if you can´t reference to posts and find bits of proof then how do you want us to agree with you? Why do you want to do ISO´s if you don´t want to analyse them?

Man.

Uh-huh. Nerolunar. Is the thread being steered? Who is doing the driving?

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Have you figured it out yet?

No. A grammar and spelling manual would do wonders.

i do analize them

Ooooow.

Pursuing Ika right then seemed much more appropiate than trying to focus on the disagreement with the Gleam lynch. I got some fine answers from him that made me vote for him. We got to know Ika better and thats way more valuable than following through with my previous thoughts.

It pinged me that you were so quick to vote for me based on this. Were you pinged by me before? If so, where and why?

No, I didn't suspect you before. You made a quick flop. That caught my eye. What does the quickness of my vote have to do with anything?

Voting people enables me to observe things, as I did with Wilgy. If I'm happy with what I see, I'll move along.

[Epignosis]

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

Why me?

You don't seem as aggressive as usual. It's disconcerting.

People have been saying that about me for the past several months.

I would like to see some evidence for this. What recent mafia game did another player accuse you of being less aggressive?

Linki: Sloonei, I don't think you can use Rock and Bullwinkle as a reference point since it's still an ongoing game.

I really don't want to trudge through old games to find specific posts, but it's true.

There are multiple reasons I am not as aggressive as I was last year. In terms of time, I've been hosting for six months. I also have a new profitable hobby in fantasy NBA, which takes a great deal of time and research to stay profitable.

In terms of Mafia, though, I started trying to dial back as far back as Death Note, when I was almost certain FZ. was bad and would not relent in hunting her down. It was a terrible blow when I realized how much time and effort I wasted contributing to my own loss. That made me begin to reevaluate my approach.

One big thing for me recently was Lost Again, in which I couldn't imagine Bullzeye being bad and argued against his lynch. S~V~S successfully got him lynched and won us the game. If I had my way, we would have Lost. Again.

Another major reason I'll just mention, without going into it, is that our site is becoming too confrontational for some people, and I'm trying to make a conscious effort to avoid contributing to that. I know I'm not the only one.

If I get lynched because I'm not being aggressive, oh well.

[indiglo]

Just wanted to chime in w/my 2 cents (not that anyone asked, but why let that stop me now? )

I have been away from mafia entirely for at least 2 years, probably longer. I've been away from this site entirely for almost as long. Since coming back (and actually playing a few mafia games again), I have noticed a HUGE shift in your gameplay, Epi. Granted, I think I've only played 2 games with you since being back, but your gameplay is almost a complete 180. And I mean that as a compliment, in a good way. Your style has evolved immensely, and I think, for the better. So it's interesting to read your reasoning behind maturing and evolving your play style.

I just thought I'd share that I noticed it immediately, even though I didn't say anything about it.

I'll put this in OT, just in case it's considered OT. You can then choose to read it, or not read it.

[indiglo]

EBWOP:

Beer fail.

[Scotty]

Hello everyone, sorry for missing out on the last day. I've read up until page 15, hopefully I'll catch up tomorrow.

I'm quite surprised at the number of new players in this specific game. The thread is going so fast and references on other games flash by here and there. Let us be civil(no pun intended), it seems some sparks are flying.

Who/what is a linki? When I catch up hopefully I'll be able to form a clearer picture. If it doesn't come in that form, I'll make that investigation board instead. No matter what happens, I'll cast a vote this day phase.

Hello again Serge, "linki" refers to when a new post pops up during the time you are typing your own new post.

What would you say is your general strategy on Days 1 & 2 of a Mafia game? Has this game been busier than what you are accustomed to?

Hullo Sloonei, I have just arrived at your post. Thanks to you and that other person that explained linki.

I don't like 0s and 1s as they usually revolve around random guessing and nitpicking the tiniest bits of text that may be construed as scummy. An example would be llama saying that Luffy complaining that the game is hard for cops is scummy is an example.

For Day 2, I generally put who got lynched and nightkilled front and center, using the posts from the previous day to try and find any links as to how both these things transpire.

I'm going to resume reading now, see you when I catch up.

I like this dude. I think he is town, mostly because we have similar philosophies.
Though night kills I'm starting to rely less and less on as crutches for suspicions.

[Epignosis]

Just wanted to chime in w/my 2 cents (not that anyone asked, but why let that stop me now? )

I have been away from mafia entirely for at least 2 years, probably longer. I've been away from this site entirely for almost as long. Since coming back (and actually playing a few mafia games again), I have noticed a HUGE shift in your gameplay, Epi. Granted, I think I've only played 2 games with you since being back, but your gameplay is almost a complete 180. And I mean that as a compliment, in a good way. Your style has evolved immensely, and I think, for the better. So it's interesting to read your reasoning behind maturing and evolving your play style.

I just thought I'd share that I noticed it immediately, even though I didn't say anything about it.

I'll put this in OT, just in case it's considered OT. You can then choose to read it, or not read it.

I really appreciate you saying so.

[agleaminranks]

Silverwolf, I'm calling your bluff. I went back and examined the Wilgy case and I don't have anything stronger to go on there. I think my rationale will stand for itself. I have a long day of classes and I'm not 100% sure I can check in again before the deadline.

Silverwolf

[Sloonei]

Why is Silverwolf more suspicious than ika?

[Nerolunar]

Sorry Wilgy. I can't vote for you anymore. Something else came up.

Wait, quite a few people have been voicing disagreement against the Gleam wagon. Is this a coordinated cop effort to steer the thread in a specific direction?

Go on...

Wow.

Well, if you can´t reference to posts and find bits of proof then how do you want us to agree with you? Why do you want to do ISO´s if you don´t want to analyse them?

Man.

Uh-huh. Nerolunar. Is the thread being steered? Who is doing the driving?

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Have you figured it out yet?

No. A grammar and spelling manual would do wonders.

i do analize them

Ooooow.

Pursuing Ika right then seemed much more appropiate than trying to focus on the disagreement with the Gleam lynch. I got some fine answers from him that made me vote for him. We got to know Ika better and thats way more valuable than following through with my previous thoughts.

It pinged me that you were so quick to vote for me based on this. Were you pinged by me before? If so, where and why?

No, I didn't suspect you before. You made a quick flop. That caught my eye. What does the quickness of my vote have to do with anything?

Voting people enables me to observe things, as I did with Wilgy. If I'm happy with what I see, I'll move along.

This is actually a reasonable way to approach things. By quickness I meant how you jumped on me based on 2 of my posts without any further suspicion, but you also explained your thought process on that.

I wouldn´t call my posts a "quick flop". I articulated thoughts and observations. No more, no less.

[Marmot]

I really don't want to trudge through old games to find specific posts, but it's true.

There are multiple reasons I am not as aggressive as I was last year. In terms of time, I've been hosting for six months. I also have a new profitable hobby in fantasy NBA, which takes a great deal of time and research to stay profitable.

In terms of Mafia, though, I started trying to dial back as far back as Death Note, when I was almost certain FZ. was bad and would not relent in hunting her down. It was a terrible blow when I realized how much time and effort I wasted contributing to my own loss. That made me begin to reevaluate my approach.

One big thing for me recently was Lost Again, in which I couldn't imagine Bullzeye being bad and argued against his lynch. S~V~S successfully got him lynched and won us the game. If I had my way, we would have Lost. Again.

Another major reason I'll just mention, without going into it, is that our site is becoming too confrontational for some people, and I'm trying to make a conscious effort to avoid contributing to that. I know I'm not the only one.

If I get lynched because I'm not being aggressive, oh well.

I see your point. I also think it's a good idea to look at those instances differently. S~V~S did not win you guys the game. It was a team effort. S~V~S may have led the charge, but one civilian cannot lynch a baddie alone. That civilian needs help from other civilians. You may not have helped lynch Bullzeye in that situation, but S~V~S got the support she needed. That's how it goes sometimes. I think this is where and element of trust comes into play in mafia. Harry Potter is another example. You rezzed me, an assured civilian, back into the game, but didn't trust me after you did. On the other hand, my return play was pretty sketchy, so your skepticism was warranted.

But I hope you don't beat yourself up for being wrong in games. When you're civilian, you're far more likely to be on point than I am. Need I remind you of Monopoly where you caught BWT on Day 3? Or Death Note, where you easily figured out that TH and I were Shinigami? I've watched you shred my mafia teammates too many times to let you be disappointed about a few wrong instances.

As for being confrontational, I still think it has its place in mafia. The baddies kill civilians every single night, which is a very mean thing to do. The civilians shouldn't roll over and take it, they need to have a little bit of urgency.

[Nerolunar]

Silverwolf, I'm calling your bluff. I went back and examined the Wilgy case and I don't have anything stronger to go on there. I think my rationale will stand for itself. I have a long day of classes and I'm not 100% sure I can check in again before the deadline.

Silverwolf

If you have a well-build case against Wilgy, then why don´t you just vote for him?

[Sloonei]

Silverwolf, I'm calling your bluff. I went back and examined the Wilgy case and I don't have anything stronger to go on there. I think my rationale will stand for itself. I have a long day of classes and I'm not 100% sure I can check in again before the deadline.

Silverwolf

If you have a well-build case against Wilgy, then why don´t you just vote for him?

I think he's saying Silverwolf has a case on Wilgy, not himself.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Just as disclaimer I don't mind Epi being less aggressive in this game, and I buy his explanation for that. I pointed it out because things have to be pointed out.

However, the point on him flip-flopping in the gleam thing seems valid so I'll try to look at Epi's posts before the day is over and see how I can interpret that.

[agleaminranks]

Silverwolf, I'm calling your bluff. I went back and examined the Wilgy case and I don't have anything stronger to go on there. I think my rationale will stand for itself. I have a long day of classes and I'm not 100% sure I can check in again before the deadline.

Silverwolf

If you have a well-build case against Wilgy, then why don´t you just vote for him?

I have what I think is a case for Wilgy being good. That's why I'm not voting for him.

Why is Silverwolf more suspicious than ika?

Truthfully I don't know if I had much more a reason to suspect Silverwolf over ika. Maybe it was because Silverwolf got the ball rolling and was the source of my frustration. I only stopped back in to cast my vote but I'm thinking it over now after I've had more time to cool down. Both were being very unhelpful as far as giving explanations or reasonings behind their actions. I wanted to claim ika's vote for wanting to believe his friend was town.

But when I look back at it, Silverwolf eventually yielded to saying she did it to get a reaction out of me. Which I think is total backpedaling, but it's better than nothing. I'm also wondering if maybe there's something to her trying to provoke me into a vote. I don't know if she has security or what, but I'm pondering it more. There has been a time where I was coaxed into voting for someone by their own provocation and it ended poorly for me.
Unless I completely missed it, I haven't really seen any similar (weak notwithstanding) justification from ika apart from wanting to defend Silverwolf. So I think it's unlikely, statistically, that both are scum, but they sure as hell are acting like it, and ika is being a bit more scummy. Perhaps one is.

So, in lieu of this, and despite me really, really wanting to vote for Silverwolf after the huge argument and case I made against her, I think I have slightly more reason to think that ika is bad. So thank you, Sloonei, for getting me to step back once further and reexamine my thoughts.

I'm changing my vote to ika.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Why don't you just admit you are voting for Ika because you need to survive the lynch?

It would look more honest.

[Sloonei]

Maybe "aggressive" was not the right word to use when describing what I don't see in Epi this game. It's more that I don't see him pursuing his reads with as much conviction as I'm used to. I was the subject of a massive wall of suspicion text from him in Rocky & Bullwinkle just last week. I don't see the same level of confidence in any of his reads this game. I also don't find him as agreeable as usual. I don't think a number of his reads hold water, which is definitely not a thing I'm used to.