Transistor [ENDGAME]

#851

Well, I'm still really busy, and this poll time is inconvenient since I'll be out. I'm alright with the nutella vote, but my feelings haven't really changed regarding my suspicions, and I'd rather vote off one of those red reads. So I'm going to vote for agleaminranks. I'll be back either late tonight after the deadline or sometime tomorrow.

#852

MP if you are not the Process then you are Mafia in my eyes.

That is my declaration.

Here's a question:
Your read of Nutella in your rainbow lists goes as follows:
#1: the only Mafia read.
#2: slight town, for no given reason.
#3: slight town, still no reference or reason.
#4: slight Mafia, for no reason.

You say you could be down for her lynch given your slight Mafia read of her, but really want to vote gleam for circumlocutory reasoning when you could really have just as eloquently said "he is my strongest detractor and I don't think it's coming from a civilian mindset" or even more eloquently put, "NO U".

I think you are Pocahontas moving with the colors of the wind, and control all of the Process characters. And if you are not the Process, then your suspicions and voting are even more suspect.

I don't currently know if the process poses a threat to civ life, but then I don't know anything about this theme. But I definitely do NOT think you are civilian.

#853

I'm sure it's been covered, but every time a new process element is added to the poll, that means that the Process player can control any of them at a time, correct? So by lynching one, we're killing that element if we don't like it?

Or do we think the player can utilize only one element power per phase?

At some point, eliminating the process may not be a bad idea if it's the former, because then it would have more power output than my CPU, which isn't saying much because it was stolen (and I'm still pissed about it)

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #854

You guys are so wrong about me and you're gonna be disappointed when I flip, but it looks like at this point there's nothing I can say to convince you. I've tried to defend about each point multiple times but apparently all my posts read as bad now, which I can't really help because I haven't had a lot of time to put into this game and so all my posts have been kinda rushed. I'm really sorry I couldn't help more and haven't gotten to use my role to its full potential.

Unfortunately I am travelling all day today and will not be around for the rest of the day period so I won't really be able to defend myself further, but it's looking like a foregone conclusion at this point. All I can say is everything I've said has been genuine, I really regret changing my mind on Elo but that's just how it goes sometimes. Since I won't be around I should vote now and I'll vote for llama I guess, I think it's fairly likely he's bad and he jumped pretty eagerly on this train against me, along with Macdougall who I would also peg as bad. I still suspect DF as well. I think those three, perhaps in that order, should be the next lynch candidates. Good luck civs

#855

nutella wrote:You guys are so wrong about me and you're gonna be disappointed when I flip, but it looks like at this point there's nothing I can say to convince you. I've tried to defend about each point multiple times but apparently all my posts read as bad now, which I can't really help because I haven't had a lot of time to put into this game and so all my posts have been kinda rushed. I'm really sorry I couldn't help more and haven't gotten to use my role to its full potential.

Unfortunately I am travelling all day today and will not be around for the rest of the day period so I won't really be able to defend myself further, but it's looking like a foregone conclusion at this point. All I can say is everything I've said has been genuine, I really regret changing my mind on Elo but that's just how it goes sometimes. Since I won't be around I should vote now and I'll vote for llama I guess, I think it's fairly likely he's bad and he jumped pretty eagerly on this train against me, along with Macdougall who I would also peg as bad. I still suspect DF as well. I think those three, perhaps in that order, should be the next lynch candidates. Good luck civs

You keep saying you've defended against what others have said, but you've done nothing of the sort. Your "defense" is exactly what you're doing now - saying you've defended yourself without defending (just getting exasperated or giving up), and not providing any concrete reads or cases on any suspicion. I'm gonna go ahead and vote since I'll not likely be on for the rest of the night, and you have not changed my mind. Voting nutella.

#856

I too am voting for the hazlenut spread.

#857

Unfortunately I don't have much time to dedicate to the game today. My vote is going to nutella. I think that the post about Niju was weird, in which there was admitted no reason to think Niju was the process but somehow the thought was kept alive. The not voting for Eloh the second time around could've been a baddie not wanting to give their teammate up. But what sealed the deal for me was this post:

nutella wrote:DF, my suspicion of you is partially due to your significantly greater volume of posting than usual, but is really mostly gut feeling, as have been most of my suspicions in this game. I know that I have not looked great and maybe I should back off from my mostly-gut-read suspicions since I was wrong about Nero, but I swear I have only been genuine in my opinions. I just sometimes get really strong gut suspicions of people that I can't really justify when people push me for detailed explanations, but they are strong enough to get my attention and vote especially when there aren't any more compelling reasons to vote for someone.

Niju, if there are any particular responses you want for me, ask away, I really would like to convince you that I'm not bad. As soon as I saw the flip on Elo I knew I would be a lynch candidate soon but I really just made a bad call in giving her a second chance and going with my gut. And I wouldn't be surprised if the people who jump on the weak and opportunistic "nutella is Elo's teammate" theory are Elo's actual teammates. I don't want to waste a lynch and I have probably one of the most powerful civ roles in the game so I hope you can see that I have really just been unfortunately making innocent mistakes so far.

This post strikes me as trying to scare people out of voting for you rather than actually being genuine.

Jack Shephard · #858

*pants*

#859

In the interest of full disclosure, I have to tell the thread that I will be spending the next four days at the Libertarian National Convention, and will likely be immensely busy. I know I have not been a model of participation this game, so I feel bad about this. I will cast votes on time if humanly possible, but I anticipate few posts to the thread itself.

Sorry, everyone. My active jet setting lifestyle is tough to mix with mafia.

#860

If I have any concern about a nutella lynch it's that it has developed so painlessly.

#861

I would agree with niju that she hasn't really answered to specific accusations and her responses have tended to reduce those accusations to a more simplistic nature than is truly representative of them -- something Elohcin also did. nutella, I've seen lamentations about your decision not to vote for Elohcin, but I haven't seen you address the full breadth of the accusations fielded against you beyond just that.

#862

I am suspicious of you all

#863

MacDougall wrote:I am suspicious of you all

Even me?

#864

I'm a little confused as to why no one heeded the post I made the other day. I think this is a huge tell-all. To restate,

Royce Bracket
Flood ( )- Sometimes…people can be…contagious. People can be contagious. Whoever targets your target the same Night will be silenced and unable to vote while they recover.

This got revealed on the role sheet a few days ago, I noticed, and it made me go back and re-examine some of the votes that had previously been cast, in light of the people who were supposedly silenced.

First night was sig, who was apparently silenced for the following day. If he was telling the truth, which, since he was lynched, I am more inclined to believe now than I was before, there is also another role that silences people for the day.

With this in mind, it seems likely to me that this person would probably isolate their nightvote targets (or even not vote altogether) so as to avoid being outed with that information. I know I had made a criticism that it seemed unlikely for more than one person to be silenced or anything, but now I'm a little more inclined to believe it's possible.

Given that both nutella and DrumBeats voted for the same element the first night and DB could vote and chat the first day, I don't think nutella is bad. Assuming I'm interpreting the role correctly.

Of the people who are still alive, there is only one person who fits the following criteria: has so far been the only person to target a Process element alone or not voted at all, and that is kneel4justice. If we're going by that strategy, it seems possible that K4J could be the role in question.

However, in looking at the players who only had one overlapping vote with another person on a night vote, that would be thellama. On Night 1 he shares a vote with sig who is promptly nightkilled. Given that sig would not have been around to even be silenced or voteblocked, it would make perfect sense for covering up this role in hindsight.

I do not feel comfortable contributing to nutella's lynch. I would rather target one of the two aformentioned. I believe there is a baddie among them, particularly the role I quoted above. I am placing my vote on thellama for today. I will try and analyze both in more detail coming soon.

Young Lady · #865

This Young Lady only wishes to destroy the Dark Master.
This Young Lady believes Deady is onto something with PoM.
This Young Lady would vote for PoM to destroy the Dark Master.
This Young Lady finds Roof Roof to be odd.
This Young Lady would like to see Roof Roof lynched.
This Young Lady believes Roof Roof Serves the Dark Master.
This Young Lady doesn't believe YumYum is the Dark Master.

#866

I'm going out to eat and have to vote now, so nutella.

#867

agleaminranks wrote:I'm a little confused as to why no one heeded the post I made the other day. I think this is a huge tell-all. To restate,

Royce Bracket
Flood ( )- Sometimes…people can be…contagious. People can be contagious. Whoever targets your target the same Night will be silenced and unable to vote while they recover.
This got revealed on the role sheet a few days ago, I noticed, and it made me go back and re-examine some of the votes that had previously been cast, in light of the people who were supposedly silenced.

First night was sig, who was apparently silenced for the following day. If he was telling the truth, which, since he was lynched, I am more inclined to believe now than I was before, there is also another role that silences people for the day.

With this in mind, it seems likely to me that this person would probably isolate their nightvote targets (or even not vote altogether) so as to avoid being outed with that information. I know I had made a criticism that it seemed unlikely for more than one person to be silenced or anything, but now I'm a little more inclined to believe it's possible.

Given that both nutella and DrumBeats voted for the same element the first night and DB could vote and chat the first day, I don't think nutella is bad. Assuming I'm interpreting the role correctly.

Of the people who are still alive, there is only one person who fits the following criteria: has so far been the only person to target a Process element alone or not voted at all, and that is kneel4justice. If we're going by that strategy, it seems possible that K4J could be the role in question.

However, in looking at the players who only had one overlapping vote with another person on a night vote, that would be thellama. On Night 1 he shares a vote with sig who is promptly nightkilled. Given that sig would not have been around to even be silenced or voteblocked, it would make perfect sense for covering up this role in hindsight.

I do not feel comfortable contributing to nutella's lynch. I would rather target one of the two aformentioned. I believe there is a baddie among them, particularly the role I quoted above. I am placing my vote on thellama for today. I will try and analyze both in more detail coming soon.

I think you're looking at this wrong. I think it is talking of night actions, not the vote for which process element to reveal.

In addition, I am happy to get behind the vote for nutella, she has been my top scumread for a while.

Young Lady · #868

This Young Lady says goodbye YumYum.
This Young Lady hopes she is the Dark Master.
This Young Lady would be pleased if she was a Forbidden One.
This Young Lady fears YumYum is a Fluffulmunchkin

#869

Locate the Camerata and/or The Process.

Poll ended at Thu May 26, 2016 8:31 pm

agleaminranks
1
MovingPictures07 (6)
5%

Scotty
0
No votes

Cell
0
No votes

DFaraday
0
No votes

DrumBeats
0
No votes

MacDougall
0
No votes

JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes

Luna
1
Young Lady (16)
5%

Man
0
No votes

MovingPictures07
0
No votes

nijuukyugou
0
No votes

nutella
9
thellama73 (3), DFaraday (4), Scotty (5), nijuukyugou (9), MacDougall (10), kneel4justice (13), Luna (14), JaggedJimmyJay (17), DrumBeats (18)
47%

kneel4justice
0
No votes

Snapshot
0
No votes

thellama73
2
nutella (8), agleaminranks (15)
11%

Young Lady
0
No votes

Fairview (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
6
Epignosis (1), sig (2), leetic (7), Spacedaisy (11), juliets (12), Matt (19)
32%

Total votes : 19

#870

Day 4 Ends: She Shines

At least we're together. Shine on girl.

nutella has been lynched.

Spoiler: show

It is now Night 4. You have 23 hours to submit your PMs and vote.

#871

Unlucky, that.

#872

Sorry nutella. Rust in Peace.

I'm also voting Man. As a test.

#873

I regret nothing

#874

See ya next time nutella.

I'd like to know more about Young Lady, thus my vote.

#875

Sorry Nutella.

Voting Young Lady because she's been hanging around here a lot.

#876

Dammit, RIP nutella.

Scotty, I'm not sure why you're suspecting me so heavily. I responded in detail to concerns about my shifting thoughts on Elo and asked you if you still had concerns about it but I never heard from you, and now you're attacking me based on my shifting thoughts on nutella, saying I provided no reasons, when otherwise I have. I'll pull up detailed quotes later, but I'm still way too busy to respond to things in detail right now. I'll respond to JJJ at that time as well.

I can join the vote for Young Lady.

#877

Oh, and Llama, I want a detailed PM about the Libertarian Party convention when you return whenever you get the chance! I wish I was there.

#878

MovingPictures07 wrote:Dammit, RIP nutella.

Scotty, I'm not sure why you're suspecting me so heavily. I responded in detail to concerns about my shifting thoughts on Elo and asked you if you still had concerns about it but I never heard from you, and now you're attacking me based on my shifting thoughts on nutella, saying I provided no reasons, when otherwise I have. I'll pull up detailed quotes later, but I'm still way too busy to respond to things in detail right now. I'll respond to JJJ at that time as well.

I can join the vote for Young Lady.

I read your response to JJJ in regards to your mindset behind Elo, and it sounds fine, and super long winded, and not necessarily something that was transparent as it transpired. Anyone can make a thought process seem like it was their own after the fact, but your response to JJJ came way after Elo was lynched, where you coil draw from her posts and comment post-mortem. I can do that too!:

Elohcin wrote:Hey all! I'm excited for this game. I'm choosing creep for the N0 poll.

I don't think she was geniunely excited, and I didn't agree with her. If I were in the game at that point I would have voted for her head.

See? Easy.

I just don't buy the lead up into your vote for her, and I'm not even sure you would have even voted for her on Day 2 if you were not "silenced". Because you've been slipperier in your suspicions than a mud-covered mini-pig.

Bringing us to Nutella. She flipped good. You've been "fine with a Nutella lynch" yesterday. You endorsed it. But you chose to vote elsewhere. Your rainbow reads have her jumping from Mafia to town to Mafia with little to no reasoning. "Otherwise [you] have" provided reasoning? Show me. Because I must have missed it.

#879

Also I'm investigating Young Girl.

Young Lady · #880

This Young Lady has nothing to hide.
This Young Lady would gladly vote for herself.
This Young Lady only wishes to destroy the Dark Master and be free.

#881

Dang. Sorry, Nutella.

agleaminranks wrote:I'm a little confused as to why no one heeded the post I made the other day. I think this is a huge tell-all. To restate,

Royce Bracket
Flood ( )- Sometimes…people can be…contagious. People can be contagious. Whoever targets your target the same Night will be silenced and unable to vote while they recover.
This got revealed on the role sheet a few days ago, I noticed, and it made me go back and re-examine some of the votes that had previously been cast, in light of the people who were supposedly silenced.

First night was sig, who was apparently silenced for the following day. If he was telling the truth, which, since he was lynched, I am more inclined to believe now than I was before, there is also another role that silences people for the day.

With this in mind, it seems likely to me that this person would probably isolate their nightvote targets (or even not vote altogether) so as to avoid being outed with that information. I know I had made a criticism that it seemed unlikely for more than one person to be silenced or anything, but now I'm a little more inclined to believe it's possible.

Given that both nutella and DrumBeats voted for the same element the first night and DB could vote and chat the first day, I don't think nutella is bad. Assuming I'm interpreting the role correctly.

Of the people who are still alive, there is only one person who fits the following criteria: has so far been the only person to target a Process element alone or not voted at all, and that is kneel4justice. If we're going by that strategy, it seems possible that K4J could be the role in question.

However, in looking at the players who only had one overlapping vote with another person on a night vote, that would be thellama. On Night 1 he shares a vote with sig who is promptly nightkilled. Given that sig would not have been around to even be silenced or voteblocked, it would make perfect sense for covering up this role in hindsight.

I do not feel comfortable contributing to nutella's lynch. I would rather target one of the two aformentioned. I believe there is a baddie among them, particularly the role I quoted above. I am placing my vote on thellama for today. I will try and analyze both in more detail coming soon.

I'm not entirely sure that I understand what you're saying, but if I do -- I believe that 'target' refers to a night action rather than a public vote.
I will go ahead and join the Young Lady vote. I have nothing to hide.

Ned Flanders · #882

Young Lady is more popular then Man?

But Young Lady came from Man's rib, so how is this possible?

#883

Voting Young Lady.

Snapshot · #884

re//

nijuukyugou wrote:Voting Young Lady.

#885

Research the Process

Badcell
0
No votes

Jerk
0
No votes

Young Lady
8
JaggedJimmyJay (6), DFaraday (7), MovingPictures07 (8), Scotty (9), Young Lady (10), kneel4justice (11), nijuukyugou (12), Snapshot (13)
57%

Snapshot
0
No votes

Fetch
0
No votes

Clucker
0
No votes

Man
2
thellama73 (3), agleaminranks (4)
14%

Operator
0
No votes

The Spine (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
4
Epignosis (1), leetic (2), nutella (5), sig (14)
29%

Total votes : 14

#886

Night 4 Ends: Cut Apart

No longer young...just dead. Cut apart. Good.

The Young Lady has been killed by the Camerata.

It is now Day 5. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

Operator · #887

7...7...7
2345998
Translating
BEEEEP BOOOOP BEEEEEP BOOOOP BZZZZZ BZZZZZ WOOOOWOOOOWOOOWOOO
I....A....M
Theee Oporator........is.....W.E.
10102159
MUST DESTROY DESTROY DESOLATE END THE EVIL ONE

AVANEG THE LADY WHO WAS
DESTROYED FOR SPEAKING TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH TURHT! TURN THE BUTTON. PRESS THE SPAN
DO
NOT
TRUST
THE
DRUM
DO
NOT
KILL
THE
.....
ELIMINATES WE DESPISE THE PROCESS;
DESTROY THE FALSE PROPHET
KILL THE HEADHUNTER.

#888

Thanks mafia!

I say we lynch an element today. Operator has a name that sounds important imo, snapshot is probably a decent option too. Cell seems relatively useless so I would suggest leaving cell alive.

Snapshot · #889

re//
snapshot loaded//

DrumBeats wrote:Thanks mafia! Which I am.

I'm mean to cell and assumptious regarding the process.

re//
cloning data//
snapshot loaded//

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I don't think Mac is mafia. Probably a lazy civ. I have my doubts regarding llama and drum. Snapshot should review him when it has the chance.

report failed//

#890

It's sad that the young lady is dead, but not as sad as if one of us real people had died. Who do you guys want to lynch today? I want to lynch JJJ.

Snapshot · #891

quick load//
cloning engine loaded//

Roxy wrote:I think it's time we lynch Drumbeats. I did an ISO on him and here's what I got.

instances compiled//

Spoiler: show

instance//

DrumBeats wrote:Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.

instance//

DrumBeats wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.
That would seem to be an impossible task. That'd require quite a few lynches and they'd all take the place of a player lynch, seriously decreasing the number of opportunities to lynch baddies.
Maybe a combo of lynches and scum kills/vigilante kills.

How about we make a deal with scum here, since we both need the Process dead.

If scum kills a process element tonight, we will as a town lynch one tomorrow.

instance//

DrumBeats wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.
That would seem to be an impossible task. That'd require quite a few lynches and they'd all take the place of a player lynch, seriously decreasing the number of opportunities to lynch baddies.
Maybe a combo of lynches and scum kills/vigilante kills.

How about we make a deal with scum here, since we both need the Process dead.

If scum kills a process element tonight, we will as a town lynch one tomorrow.
Wouldn't it be much more efficient to just try to lynch the player with the role? We have no idea how the game will progress from this starting point and what information or circumstances we might encounter to facilitate that hunt. It's a four man scum team, and this kind of significant Process-oriented focus is the opposite of how to pursue their elimination. Pending ability strength variables, I think town starts this game behind the eight ball in the numbers as it is.
Hence why we make it a deal with the scum. We do not get behind if scum shoots the process instead of us. However, if both factions allow the process to go unimpeded for the bulk of the game, I bet it will take both of us down in endgame easily. It seems to have a lot of roles. I think it is very reasonable to be proactive in getting rid of it early, as long as the scumteam proves their cooperation by shooting first. Only person who should be opposed to this arrangement is the process itself.

instance//

DrumBeats wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Lastly, for the idea that DrumBeats proposed regarding working "with the mafia" to eliminate The Process, I don't think worrying about this at this stage is healthy, since:
1) I don't know how we are supposed to effectively hunt for The Process at this time.
2) You can never "trust" the mafia enough to work with them on something.

Nonetheless, it does seem both factions have a mutual benefit in ridding the game of The Process, so I think inadvertently the mafia will be working with us on that matter. I don't think any specific attempt to work with them would be at all fruitful, unless we reach a certain point later in the game where we can somehow try to pinpoint The Process based on actual hunting procedures, and at that time we can re-open this discussion. But that's just my opinion.
Trying to shut down talk of taking out the Process are we? Noted.

It is healthy and arguably necessary to discuss this early in the game. Both factions have a mutual benefit, we will know we can trust the mafia to work with us should they kill one of the process elements tonight. Then we equivalent exchange lynch one the next day. It benefits everyone besides the Process and does nothing to disrupt the town/scum ratio.

instance redacted//
instance edited//
instance//

DrumBeats wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.
How does this actually address identifying and killing the person behind the role though?
By allowing us to hit them when the time comes. I guarantee you at least one of those is something that keeps them safe. If we cut off the Process's power it won't be able to hurt us as much later. Also, if you look at the cheerleader it says that it's vote is worth one. I'm worried that the process will get more votes the longer we wait. We've got nothing to lose, assuming mafia targets them and not a civ first.

And in regards to your more recent post, there really is not anything to further this. My only thought on it is that if we do not agree to the terms as a town, I doubt the mafia will target the Process because they would not trust us to keep up our end. Hence why I've been pushing the idea, hoping to save us from a civ shot tonight.

Also, MP, what are your thoughts on Zebra and the potential scumslip I mentioned?

I'll respond with some more reads in a second but my primary one is scum!Zebra

quick load//

Roxy wrote:So here's almost half of drumbeats posts, they deal mostly with finding and eliminating the process via targeting the elements. 1st of all, I don't understand were the notion that the elements are the process came from.
Epignosis wrote:The Process will manifest itself in multiple ways.
Makes me think that there are both players and elements that serve the process. Perhaps some are civs and some are mafia. All I know is that this game isn't as clear cut as some believe.

Something to be noted about the last &^*@^#$*& was Drumbeats worry. Drumbeats not only encouraged mafia to kill an element (a cute one at that), but was also worried about the elements. Perhaps that worry caught up to Drumbeats and forced his hand during last nights NK?

Also in Drumbeat's &(*@#(* quote, we see first sign of suspicion towards Zebra, based on supposed slip.

instance//

DrumBeats wrote:Here are the reads I have atm:

Town reads/leans:
MovingPictures07 - Seems to be genuinely pushing discussion
Elohcin - Active and given me no reason to suspect them. Could be a biased opinion due to them being the one person who actually acknowledged my idea without twisting it into "lets ignore the mafia"
JJJ - Seems to be genuinely scumhunting. A little less active than he seems to usually be but he's in a ton of games at once right now iirc.

Null reads:
DrWigly - How the hell do you read somebody like this
Matt - Seems to be different than the conspiracy theory Matt I've seen before, though I'm not sure what that says of his alignment. Very unhelpful and I don't like the early vote, but I'm still not sure here.

Scum reads/leans:
Zebra - Potential scumslip, plus acting WAY too confused about everything. Has contributed nothing and locked a vote way early. My largest scumread right now.
Illyria - Haven't seen much here, but one thing I noticed is that I think Illyria is just skimming. Illyria expressed distaste for my plan saying that we can't trust the mafia and then basically suggested a less civ-beneficial version my plan by saying we should just wait a few days and do it. Should that idea go through it would get rid of scum obligation in removing the threat, which makes me scum lean Illyria a bit.

Dependent read:
Nutella - Depending on the answer to my last question.

quick load//

Roxy wrote:A townread on Eloh, a scumread as two players I ANALYZE as being good... noted in Illyria re// Drum seems to have a solid mindset on what the mafia want to do, and will do (from last night). A vague gap left for Wilgy.

@DRUMBEATS how did Wilgy compare to Illyria?

instance//

DrumBeats wrote:
nutella wrote:Aw bye Illy, sad to see you go. Welcome Mac.

Drum: I admit I didn't fully understand your plan at first. But I still think it's somewhat dangerous to focus on lynching the one rogue rather than the mafia, and we don't even fully understand how targeting elements of the Process works. It just seems like a waste of lynch opportunities to me -- perhaps it would weaken the Process but at the cost of keeping the mafia alive.
Gotcha, thanks for the answer of there was no malicious intent possible. It was an opportunistic suspicion that you thought you could bank on without actually having a base for it.

Current "vote": Nutella

Fabricating a scumread for malicious intent that you cannot back up or provide makes the read feel forced and opportunistic.

quick load//

Roxy wrote:Looking back. Calling Nutella Juice opportunistic for not agreeing with your plan and starting the Nutella Juice line of product isn't a good look.

instance//

DrumBeats wrote:
nijuukyugou wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:nijuukyugou

Spoiler: show
nijuukyugou wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Wait how is it STILL Day 1?
How are you still confused by the mechanics? What's going on with you, zeebs? This is weird as shit.

Linki @ DrumBeats - Your plan, however, at its core, is to trust mafia to any extent, which is not viable. They already have a large team for a speed game with only 17 players. Again, part of the theory works, and I agree we need to keep a hell of an eye on the Process and prevent what we can, but trusting mafia to help civs is not gonna work for a civ win.
This is snipped from a larger post. She asserted that Zebra's behavior was "weird as shit", but didn't make a definitive accusation. I'll follow the progression.

Her comment @DrumBeats strikes me as a misconstruing of what he was proposing. This came after he reiterated/restated his idea to emphasize that it required no actual trust of the baddie team (because it required them to make the first move). I'm not sure what trust nijuu was suggesting had to exist for this plan to function. I don't know whether that means anything, but it's something nijuu can talk about and perhaps that'll substantiate any resulting read.
Argh. Now I understand how DrumBeats felt. I didn't misconstrue what he proposed, at least as far as I know. I know the plan was contingent upon the mafia acting first in civilian favor. I reiterate that even if this happened, it STILL requires trust in the mafia to do the back and forth, and for us to be on their side by lynching an element. They would still have to comply in lynching the element with us, too. But I suppose now that I think about it, it would be hard to hide if you chose not to vote along as an "agreement." Still, it's too risky, their team is too big, and there are too many unknowns at this point, especially at the point that the plan was proposed. Does that make sense? I don't blame him or think he's bad for suggesting the plan; I just don't think it's a good idea.

I'll post more substantially later tonight or tomorrow, but I did want to respond to that first.

Linki - The site's been kinda funky lately, at least for me, and I think others, as well, but tonight it's cooperating
Nope, you don't know how I felt because you didn't have literally the whole thread misconstrue and not actually read what you were saying. I will say it again though, no trust is needed. It doesn't even have to be a back and forth with the mafia, I'm just proposing a 1:1 trade with them. They kill an element instead of us, we lynch one. Easy and harmless for us, and it hurts the Process.

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Roxy wrote:Rather harsh to say the whole thread miscontrue'd something. Miscontrue'd is not a string within my database. Unkown if this hurts the process, but Drum continues pushing the notion.

instance//

DrumBeats wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I'm glad McDougall is here. He can usually see through the nonsense. The Cell reads JJJ as inconclusive. Is that not suspicious to anyone else?
Think you're grasping at straws there. There are barrels of WIFOM behind anything the Process posts, anything they say about people are inconclusive honestly. You grasping onto that makes me wonder if you're scum or mafia trying to take an easy shot.

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Roxy wrote:All accusations of opportunism are discredited based on data above. Seems to be a common angle with Drum. Slips and calling opportunism. Perhaps it can be called opportunism here, but these claims seem too easy.

instance compiled//

Spoiler: show

DrumBeats wrote:
nutella wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:
nutella wrote:Aw bye Illy, sad to see you go. Welcome Mac.

Drum: I admit I didn't fully understand your plan at first. But I still think it's somewhat dangerous to focus on lynching the one rogue rather than the mafia, and we don't even fully understand how targeting elements of the Process works. It just seems like a waste of lynch opportunities to me -- perhaps it would weaken the Process but at the cost of keeping the mafia alive.
Gotcha, thanks for the answer of there was no malicious intent possible. It was an opportunistic suspicion that you thought you could bank on without actually having a base for it.

Current "vote": Nutella

Fabricating a scumread for malicious intent that you cannot back up or provide makes the read feel forced and opportunistic.
What are you talking about? Of course there could be malicious intent in steering the lynches away from the mafia. I said that it would be dangerous, and it was a reasonable at the time to think you might have intentions of keeping the mafia alive. And it still could be, but again I don't really suspect you as much anymore; that doesn't mean my original suspicion was unfounded or opportunistic. It may have been exaggerated by a misunderstanding of your plan but it was still legitimate and can still apply to the clarified plan.
It definitely was opportunistic and here's why:

-All of the info about the plan was out there before you posted it. You knew it was a trade-off rather than a "Let's all lynch only the Process." Despite this, you are only highlighting the part of the plan that allows for a push, ie the "wasting" of a lynch. Intentionally neglecting the requirements for us to "waste" our lynch, which is the mafia "wasting" their kill on the previous night, makes your reasoning seem sound, despite its numerous fallacies.

-Enough people were uncomfortable with the idea at the time that it would be an opportunity for an easy push based on mere paranoia. Pointing out "malicious intent" without specifying anything was a great way to try to shift that paranoia into a mislynch, either that day or down the line.

-Nothing has changed about my plan since you made this post, but now that you have received backlash for it, the suspicion is no longer present. The only two things that have changed are that you have received backlash and that a few more people are opening up to my idea. The fact that you let go of your suspicion now shows that it is likely due to either wanting to avoid the backlash, or realizing the opportunity to push a mislynch on it is gone now, because nothing about the plan/my behavior has changed. Also, in your first response to my question about the malicious intent, you never elaborated upon it, just starting to give the "I didn't fully understand it" defense, which we will get into in the next bullet point

-The confusion about the plan allows for the easy cop out defense which you are providing right now: "I didn't understand it." It was very clearly laid out, and for town!you to develop a scumread upon it, I would expect you to have paid enough attention to it to know both aspects of it and that it hinges upon the mafia acting first, therefore maintaining a 1:1 lynch:kill ratio.

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Roxy wrote:I find this humorous. RIP in peace Nutella brand Juice cartons.

instance//

DrumBeats wrote:I've laid out my reasons and I do not find Elo to be a better option imo.

Nutella

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Roxy wrote:Mentioning Elo, where it doesn't need to be mentioned is a very bad look.

instance redacted//

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fixed!>.

Roxy wrote:My final processing of Drumbeats is rather bad. Two theories come to mind. He's either mafia, or he is somehow aligned with the process. These set in stone thoughts about the process leads me to believe he might know more than others, and wants others to think in a certain manner. His confiding in the mafia to eliminate us also can point to either Drum being mafia or process. I do not believe eliminating me will assist in your search for the process, and I do believe we are being scapegoated. Mentions of Elo that are wrong, or misplaced cause for worry. Voting off wagon civs until his wagon came around is not good either.

Final percent:
70% Mafia
30% Process

results final//
terminating engine process//

submitting//
DrumBeats

Jack Shephard · #892

Snapshot wrote:quick load//
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Roxy wrote:I think it's time we lynch Drumbeats. I did an ISO on him and here's what I got.
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Spoiler: show
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DrumBeats wrote:Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.
instance//
DrumBeats wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.
That would seem to be an impossible task. That'd require quite a few lynches and they'd all take the place of a player lynch, seriously decreasing the number of opportunities to lynch baddies.
Maybe a combo of lynches and scum kills/vigilante kills.

How about we make a deal with scum here, since we both need the Process dead.

If scum kills a process element tonight, we will as a town lynch one tomorrow.
instance//
DrumBeats wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:Also, in regards to the process, I'm wondering if we have to eliminate every element of the process to destroy it. Hence why Cell is an option to lynch.
That would seem to be an impossible task. That'd require quite a few lynches and they'd all take the place of a player lynch, seriously decreasing the number of opportunities to lynch baddies.
Maybe a combo of lynches and scum kills/vigilante kills.

How about we make a deal with scum here, since we both need the Process dead.

If scum kills a process element tonight, we will as a town lynch one tomorrow.
Wouldn't it be much more efficient to just try to lynch the player with the role? We have no idea how the game will progress from this starting point and what information or circumstances we might encounter to facilitate that hunt. It's a four man scum team, and this kind of significant Process-oriented focus is the opposite of how to pursue their elimination. Pending ability strength variables, I think town starts this game behind the eight ball in the numbers as it is.
Hence why we make it a deal with the scum. We do not get behind if scum shoots the process instead of us. However, if both factions allow the process to go unimpeded for the bulk of the game, I bet it will take both of us down in endgame easily. It seems to have a lot of roles. I think it is very reasonable to be proactive in getting rid of it early, as long as the scumteam proves their cooperation by shooting first. Only person who should be opposed to this arrangement is the process itself.
instance//
DrumBeats wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Lastly, for the idea that DrumBeats proposed regarding working "with the mafia" to eliminate The Process, I don't think worrying about this at this stage is healthy, since:
1) I don't know how we are supposed to effectively hunt for The Process at this time.
2) You can never "trust" the mafia enough to work with them on something.

Nonetheless, it does seem both factions have a mutual benefit in ridding the game of The Process, so I think inadvertently the mafia will be working with us on that matter. I don't think any specific attempt to work with them would be at all fruitful, unless we reach a certain point later in the game where we can somehow try to pinpoint The Process based on actual hunting procedures, and at that time we can re-open this discussion. But that's just my opinion.
Trying to shut down talk of taking out the Process are we? Noted.

It is healthy and arguably necessary to discuss this early in the game. Both factions have a mutual benefit, we will know we can trust the mafia to work with us should they kill one of the process elements tonight. Then we equivalent exchange lynch one the next day. It benefits everyone besides the Process and does nothing to disrupt the town/scum ratio.
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DrumBeats wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:By what everyone has responded to my plan, it's clear the very few people have actually read, or at least understood, it. I am not proposing that we blindly trust the mafia and repeatedly lynch process elements. I am stating that we should lynch a process element when and only when the mafia nightkills one.

The cheerleader element implies that the mafia can shoot process elements. We don't have to trust the mafia, we literally just wait for them to shoot a process element instead of one of us, and then we lynch a process element the next day. No trust involved because we will know the next day that they kept their end of the bargain.
How does this actually address identifying and killing the person behind the role though?
By allowing us to hit them when the time comes. I guarantee you at least one of those is something that keeps them safe. If we cut off the Process's power it won't be able to hurt us as much later. Also, if you look at the cheerleader it says that it's vote is worth one. I'm worried that the process will get more votes the longer we wait. We've got nothing to lose, assuming mafia targets them and not a civ first.

And in regards to your more recent post, there really is not anything to further this. My only thought on it is that if we do not agree to the terms as a town, I doubt the mafia will target the Process because they would not trust us to keep up our end. Hence why I've been pushing the idea, hoping to save us from a civ shot tonight.

Also, MP, what are your thoughts on Zebra and the potential scumslip I mentioned?

I'll respond with some more reads in a second but my primary one is scum!Zebra
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Roxy wrote:So here's almost half of drumbeats posts, they deal mostly with finding and eliminating the process via targeting the elements. 1st of all, I don't understand were the notion that the elements are the process came from.
Epignosis wrote:The Process will manifest itself in multiple ways.
Makes me think that there are both players and elements that serve the process. Perhaps some are civs and some are mafia. All I know is that this game isn't as clear cut as some believe.

Something to be noted about the last &^*@^#$*& was Drumbeats worry. Drumbeats not only encouraged mafia to kill an element (a cute one at that), but was also worried about the elements. Perhaps that worry caught up to Drumbeats and forced his hand during last nights NK?

Also in Drumbeat's &(*@#(* quote, we see first sign of suspicion towards Zebra, based on supposed slip.
instance//
DrumBeats wrote:Here are the reads I have atm:

Town reads/leans:
MovingPictures07 - Seems to be genuinely pushing discussion
Elohcin - Active and given me no reason to suspect them. Could be a biased opinion due to them being the one person who actually acknowledged my idea without twisting it into "lets ignore the mafia"
JJJ - Seems to be genuinely scumhunting. A little less active than he seems to usually be but he's in a ton of games at once right now iirc.

Null reads:
DrWigly - How the hell do you read somebody like this
Matt - Seems to be different than the conspiracy theory Matt I've seen before, though I'm not sure what that says of his alignment. Very unhelpful and I don't like the early vote, but I'm still not sure here.

Scum reads/leans:
Zebra - Potential scumslip, plus acting WAY too confused about everything. Has contributed nothing and locked a vote way early. My largest scumread right now.
Illyria - Haven't seen much here, but one thing I noticed is that I think Illyria is just skimming. Illyria expressed distaste for my plan saying that we can't trust the mafia and then basically suggested a less civ-beneficial version my plan by saying we should just wait a few days and do it. Should that idea go through it would get rid of scum obligation in removing the threat, which makes me scum lean Illyria a bit.

Dependent read:
Nutella - Depending on the answer to my last question.
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Roxy wrote:A townread on Eloh, a scumread as two players I ANALYZE as being good... noted in Illyria re// Drum seems to have a solid mindset on what the mafia want to do, and will do (from last night). A vague gap left for Wilgy.

@DRUMBEATS how did Wilgy compare to Illyria?
instance//
DrumBeats wrote:
nutella wrote:Aw bye Illy, sad to see you go. Welcome Mac.

Drum: I admit I didn't fully understand your plan at first. But I still think it's somewhat dangerous to focus on lynching the one rogue rather than the mafia, and we don't even fully understand how targeting elements of the Process works. It just seems like a waste of lynch opportunities to me -- perhaps it would weaken the Process but at the cost of keeping the mafia alive.
Gotcha, thanks for the answer of there was no malicious intent possible. It was an opportunistic suspicion that you thought you could bank on without actually having a base for it.

Current "vote": Nutella

Fabricating a scumread for malicious intent that you cannot back up or provide makes the read feel forced and opportunistic.
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Roxy wrote:Looking back. Calling Nutella Juice opportunistic for not agreeing with your plan and starting the Nutella Juice line of product isn't a good look.
instance//
DrumBeats wrote:
nijuukyugou wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:nijuukyugou

Spoiler: show
nijuukyugou wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Wait how is it STILL Day 1?
How are you still confused by the mechanics? What's going on with you, zeebs? This is weird as shit.

Linki @ DrumBeats - Your plan, however, at its core, is to trust mafia to any extent, which is not viable. They already have a large team for a speed game with only 17 players. Again, part of the theory works, and I agree we need to keep a hell of an eye on the Process and prevent what we can, but trusting mafia to help civs is not gonna work for a civ win.
This is snipped from a larger post. She asserted that Zebra's behavior was "weird as shit", but didn't make a definitive accusation. I'll follow the progression.

Her comment @DrumBeats strikes me as a misconstruing of what he was proposing. This came after he reiterated/restated his idea to emphasize that it required no actual trust of the baddie team (because it required them to make the first move). I'm not sure what trust nijuu was suggesting had to exist for this plan to function. I don't know whether that means anything, but it's something nijuu can talk about and perhaps that'll substantiate any resulting read.
Argh. Now I understand how DrumBeats felt. I didn't misconstrue what he proposed, at least as far as I know. I know the plan was contingent upon the mafia acting first in civilian favor. I reiterate that even if this happened, it STILL requires trust in the mafia to do the back and forth, and for us to be on their side by lynching an element. They would still have to comply in lynching the element with us, too. But I suppose now that I think about it, it would be hard to hide if you chose not to vote along as an "agreement." Still, it's too risky, their team is too big, and there are too many unknowns at this point, especially at the point that the plan was proposed. Does that make sense? I don't blame him or think he's bad for suggesting the plan; I just don't think it's a good idea.

I'll post more substantially later tonight or tomorrow, but I did want to respond to that first.

Linki - The site's been kinda funky lately, at least for me, and I think others, as well, but tonight it's cooperating
Nope, you don't know how I felt because you didn't have literally the whole thread misconstrue and not actually read what you were saying. I will say it again though, no trust is needed. It doesn't even have to be a back and forth with the mafia, I'm just proposing a 1:1 trade with them. They kill an element instead of us, we lynch one. Easy and harmless for us, and it hurts the Process.
quick load//
Roxy wrote:Rather harsh to say the whole thread miscontrue'd something. Miscontrue'd is not a string within my database. Unkown if this hurts the process, but Drum continues pushing the notion.
instance//
DrumBeats wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I'm glad McDougall is here. He can usually see through the nonsense. The Cell reads JJJ as inconclusive. Is that not suspicious to anyone else?
Think you're grasping at straws there. There are barrels of WIFOM behind anything the Process posts, anything they say about people are inconclusive honestly. You grasping onto that makes me wonder if you're scum or mafia trying to take an easy shot.
quick load//
Roxy wrote:All accusations of opportunism are discredited based on data above. Seems to be a common angle with Drum. Slips and calling opportunism. Perhaps it can be called opportunism here, but these claims seem too easy.
instance compiled//
Spoiler: show
DrumBeats wrote:
nutella wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:
nutella wrote:Aw bye Illy, sad to see you go. Welcome Mac.

Drum: I admit I didn't fully understand your plan at first. But I still think it's somewhat dangerous to focus on lynching the one rogue rather than the mafia, and we don't even fully understand how targeting elements of the Process works. It just seems like a waste of lynch opportunities to me -- perhaps it would weaken the Process but at the cost of keeping the mafia alive.
Gotcha, thanks for the answer of there was no malicious intent possible. It was an opportunistic suspicion that you thought you could bank on without actually having a base for it.

Current "vote": Nutella

Fabricating a scumread for malicious intent that you cannot back up or provide makes the read feel forced and opportunistic.
What are you talking about? Of course there could be malicious intent in steering the lynches away from the mafia. I said that it would be dangerous, and it was a reasonable at the time to think you might have intentions of keeping the mafia alive. And it still could be, but again I don't really suspect you as much anymore; that doesn't mean my original suspicion was unfounded or opportunistic. It may have been exaggerated by a misunderstanding of your plan but it was still legitimate and can still apply to the clarified plan.
It definitely was opportunistic and here's why:

-All of the info about the plan was out there before you posted it. You knew it was a trade-off rather than a "Let's all lynch only the Process." Despite this, you are only highlighting the part of the plan that allows for a push, ie the "wasting" of a lynch. Intentionally neglecting the requirements for us to "waste" our lynch, which is the mafia "wasting" their kill on the previous night, makes your reasoning seem sound, despite its numerous fallacies.

-Enough people were uncomfortable with the idea at the time that it would be an opportunity for an easy push based on mere paranoia. Pointing out "malicious intent" without specifying anything was a great way to try to shift that paranoia into a mislynch, either that day or down the line.

-Nothing has changed about my plan since you made this post, but now that you have received backlash for it, the suspicion is no longer present. The only two things that have changed are that you have received backlash and that a few more people are opening up to my idea. The fact that you let go of your suspicion now shows that it is likely due to either wanting to avoid the backlash, or realizing the opportunity to push a mislynch on it is gone now, because nothing about the plan/my behavior has changed. Also, in your first response to my question about the malicious intent, you never elaborated upon it, just starting to give the "I didn't fully understand it" defense, which we will get into in the next bullet point

-The confusion about the plan allows for the easy cop out defense which you are providing right now: "I didn't understand it." It was very clearly laid out, and for town!you to develop a scumread upon it, I would expect you to have paid enough attention to it to know both aspects of it and that it hinges upon the mafia acting first, therefore maintaining a 1:1 lynch:kill ratio.
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Roxy wrote:I find this humorous. RIP in peace Nutella brand Juice cartons.
instance//
DrumBeats wrote:I've laid out my reasons and I do not find Elo to be a better option imo.

Nutella
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Roxy wrote:Mentioning Elo, where it doesn't need to be mentioned is a very bad look.
instance redacted//

quick load//
fixed!>.
Roxy wrote:My final processing of Drumbeats is rather bad. Two theories come to mind. He's either mafia, or he is somehow aligned with the process. These set in stone thoughts about the process leads me to believe he might know more than others, and wants others to think in a certain manner. His confiding in the mafia to eliminate us also can point to either Drum being mafia or process. I do not believe eliminating me will assist in your search for the process, and I do believe we are being scapegoated. Mentions of Elo that are wrong, or misplaced cause for worry. Voting off wagon civs until his wagon came around is not good either.

Final percent:
70% Mafia
30% Process
results final//
terminating engine process//

submitting//
DrumBeats

Grrrrrrrrrrr..bark! Bark!

#893

I don't know if the mod is just having a lot of fun with the Elements or if we should be paying serious attention to them.

#894

Also, my theory has been disavowed, with regards to llama at least.

Snapshot · #895

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agleaminranks wrote:I know if the mod isn't just having a lot of fun with the Elements. We should be paying serious attention to at least some them. Especially that ISO if I'm civ or want ro find the process.

replay?>.

Snapshot · #896

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Luna wrote:Grrrrrrrrrrr..bark! Bark!

cloning data//
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timmer wrote:Is this your opinion regarding my whole ISO? None of it makes sense then? A shame.

DrumBeats wrote:Thanks mafia!

I say we lynch an element today. Operator has a name that sounds important imo, snapshot is probably a decent option too. Cell seems relatively useless so I would suggest leaving cell alive.
Dog, why do you think Luna wasn't mentioned here?
Feel free to answer this Drum. I am curious as to what the dog says first though.

sending report//

#897

agleaminranks wrote:I don't know if the mod is just having a lot of fun with the Elements or if we should be paying serious attention to them.

I can't imagine Epignosis is responsible for these posts by the elements. The potential influence on the game is significant, much more than any host should ever have -- and Epignosis especially strikes me as a host conscious of that problem. The fact that Snapshot keeps "quoting" players not in this game makes me wonder if the elements are controlled by people who didn't originally sign up to play, like the independent prisoners in Turf Wars.

That Snapshot bothered to compile that ISO on DrumBeats at all suggests to me that some kind of agenda is being pursued and that we probably shouldn't entirely ignore it. I'll allow DrumBeats to answer to it before I state my own perspective.

#898

Apparently Luna isn't one of the Process elements, or at least it's not listed in the OP among them. It's still in the lynch poll though.

#899

DrumBeats wrote:Thanks mafia!

I say we lynch an element today. Operator has a name that sounds important imo, snapshot is probably a decent option too. Cell seems relatively useless so I would suggest leaving cell alive.

There's the rub. The elements included in the poll are all unknowns apart from Cell, which has been revealed to have no voting power. There's no way to know whether Snapshot and Operator are any more of a threat, and I don't feel especially comfortable lynching an entity based on how important it sounds. There's also Luna, which seems to be a separate entity entirely. Before I consider the notion of lynching Snapshot especially, I want you to respond to the ISO it has presented on you.

#900

That the baddies elected to kill an element might be of some significance, particularly one that was being revealed in the same night's poll. I'm looking at Young Lady's ISO. She spoke in a sort of code, using nicknames. I'm not really clear on who she was talking about in each case, but some are clear or can be drawn out of context (Picture of Motion = MovingPicutres07, YumYum = nutella, Wiggly = DrWilgy, Four Legged Mammal = thellama73, etc...)

Before she was killed she seemed unamused by "Roof Roof" (maybe Luna), Pervert (?), and MovingPictures07.

Find the Camerata or the Process.