Transistor [ENDGAME]

[Scotty]

JJJ, nijuu, and Scotty, hopefully I can respond to your concerns thoroughly. I should have time tomorrow night after I get home from teaching if I don't get the time before then, and assuming I survive the Night (but I don't know why the mafia would kill me since I have suspicion). In response to your point, JJJ, about my inactivity following my increase in suspicion, it's purely coincidental, and my RL has just taken over my life to the point where I don't really have time for this game at the moment. I apologize to you all and the host, but it is what it is. Please let me know what specific questions you have that I can address.

I'll vote Snapshot.

Yo MP I'll never be all up in your grill on RL taking over the game. But this is more of an indictment on your choices and context within what you've already posted.

I'm tryin to see a different viewpoint, but Agent J already pressed the red button in this tunnel on the way to destroy alien scum--- I don't know if there's anything you can say that will calm my jitters

[kneel4justice]

Voting Snapshot.

[nijuukyugou]

Snapshot it is.

[agleaminranks]

Snapshot it is.

Ditto, but for lack of anything else to go on to be honest.

[Scotty]

So in case I am actually dead tonight, I feel like importing that I agree that multiple people are running the sock accounts, and think they have their own agendas and win cons that may not be in the same realm as us. Therefore I don't see why we're going after them without hesitation. I'm looking at you, Drumbeats. You thought Mafia was giving us a gift of killing them, and advising us do the same. But I wouldn't be surprised if it were part of your own manipulation that you are Mafia speeding things up a little under the guise of a civ. I don't know why several if you view Drum as civ. Could someone enlighten me?

Wtf is Luna? Like, seriously. Wtf is that?

I view nijuu as town at this time.

I don't know if any of us are in fact Process at this time. I thought Mp might have been, but I'm still going with Mafia.

JJJ, who do you think looks the most suspicious of the non-elements?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So in case I am actually dead tonight, I feel like importing that I agree that multiple people are running the sock accounts, and think they have their own agendas and win cons that may not be in the same realm as us. Therefore I don't see why we're going after them without hesitation. I'm looking at you, Drumbeats. You thought Mafia was giving us a gift of killing them, and advising us do the same. But I wouldn't be surprised if it were part of your own manipulation that you are Mafia speeding things up a little under the guise of a civ. I don't know why several if you view Drum as civ. Could someone enlighten me?

He doesn't have to be a civilian, but I do think his play would be the most brazenly WIFOM of anyone alive if he isn't. It'd be very bold for him to introduce his town/baddie coordination proposal on Day 1 as casually as he did if it was intended to manipulate. I also think his indignant annoyance at the ways he was [mis]interpreted for that proposal appear pretty genuine. At face value I haven't taken issue with his content, and I'm rarely one to take a bite out of the WIFOMburgers.

The town win condition states that the Process must be destroyed, and when there are elements of the Process present in the lynch poll I'd think that has to have some significance. To ignore them entirely because it doesn't feel inspiring to lynch a thing instead of a player strikes me as a mistake.

I don't know if any of us are in fact Process at this time. I thought Mp might have been, but I'm still going with Mafia.

I'd think someone has to be, since 17 players signed up to play and the Cloudwalk/Camerata factions only account for 16.

Question: if you aren't certain that one of the 17 players signed up to play is the Process and you're underwhelmed by lynching Process elements, how would you propose we deal with it?

JJJ, who do you think looks the most suspicious of the non-elements?

Gun to my head, the three names I'd give are agleaminranks, DFaraday, and MP. If possible later I'll give each of them a closer look to check the content against my gut.

Who do you find suspicious apart from MP?

[Scotty]

So in case I am actually dead tonight, I feel like importing that I agree that multiple people are running the sock accounts, and think they have their own agendas and win cons that may not be in the same realm as us. Therefore I don't see why we're going after them without hesitation. I'm looking at you, Drumbeats. You thought Mafia was giving us a gift of killing them, and advising us do the same. But I wouldn't be surprised if it were part of your own manipulation that you are Mafia speeding things up a little under the guise of a civ. I don't know why several if you view Drum as civ. Could someone enlighten me?

He doesn't have to be a civilian, but I do think his play would be the most brazenly WIFOM of anyone alive if he isn't. It'd be very bold for him to introduce his town/baddie coordination proposal on Day 1 as casually as he did if it was intended to manipulate. I also think his indignant annoyance at the ways he was [mis]interpreted for that proposal appear pretty genuine. At face value I haven't taken issue with his content, and I'm rarely one to take a bite out of the WIFOMburgers.

The town win condition states that the Process must be destroyed, and when there are elements of the Process present in the lynch poll I'd think that has to have some significance. To ignore them entirely because it doesn't feel inspiring to lynch a thing instead of a player strikes me as a mistake.

I don't know if any of us are in fact Process at this time. I thought Mp might have been, but I'm still going with Mafia.

I'd think someone has to be, since 17 players signed up to play and the Cloudwalk/Camerata factions only account for 16.

Question: if you aren't certain that one of the 17 players signed up to play is the Process and you're underwhelmed by lynching Process elements, how would you propose we deal with it?
Well I don't see them as much of a threat as of now, even though they might have a different win con. We've only killed one Mafia so far, and that leaves 3 more, in a dwindling civ pool. Now the real question is: if the process elements outnumber the civs, does the game end? That would certainly suck.

JJJ, who do you think looks the most suspicious of the non-elements?

Gun to my head, the three names I'd give are agleaminranks, DFaraday, and MP. If possible later I'll give each of them a closer look to check the content against my gut.

Who do you find suspicious apart from MP?

I try to take things one big suspicion at a time. Drumbeats is one. Do you think he is civ? Why or why not?
I currently view you as town.
Gleam and DF are null to me right now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I try to take things one big suspicion at a time. Drumbeats is one. Do you think he is civ? Why or why not?

I talked about this in that prior post:

He doesn't have to be a civilian, but I do think his play would be the most brazenly WIFOM of anyone alive if he isn't. It'd be very bold for him to introduce his town/baddie coordination proposal on Day 1 as casually as he did if it was intended to manipulate. I also think his indignant annoyance at the ways he was [mis]interpreted for that proposal appear pretty genuine. At face value I haven't taken issue with his content, and I'm rarely one to take a bite out of the WIFOMburgers.

I lean more townward than not on DrumBeats. I also think the WIFOM aspect of reading him is made even more significant given his interactions with Elohcin.

[Scotty]

I try to take things one big suspicion at a time. Drumbeats is one. Do you think he is civ? Why or why not?

I talked about this in that prior post:

He doesn't have to be a civilian, but I do think his play would be the most brazenly WIFOM of anyone alive if he isn't. It'd be very bold for him to introduce his town/baddie coordination proposal on Day 1 as casually as he did if it was intended to manipulate. I also think his indignant annoyance at the ways he was [mis]interpreted for that proposal appear pretty genuine. At face value I haven't taken issue with his content, and I'm rarely one to take a bite out of the WIFOMburgers.

I lean more townward than not on DrumBeats. I also think the WIFOM aspect of reading him is made even more significant given his interactions with Elohcin.

Ohhhhhhh I thought that was referring to MP. Gotcha. Noted.

[Epignosis]

Research the Process

Badcell
0
No votes

Jerk
0
No votes

Snapshot
7
DrumBeats (2), JaggedJimmyJay (3), MovingPictures07 (6), kneel4justice (8), MacDougall (9), nijuukyugou (10), agleaminranks (11)
64%

Fetch
0
No votes

Clucker
0
No votes

Man
0
No votes

Operator
1
Scotty (5)
9%

The Spine (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
3
Epignosis (1), juliets (4), Spacedaisy (7)
27%


Total votes : 11

[Epignosis]

Night 5 Ends: Heightmap

Looks like Scotty's down.

Scotty has been killed by the Camerata.

It is now Day 6. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

[Snapshot]

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

re//

Which is why we should stop indiscriminately killing elements and look to whomever is mafia and the process.

So here's how this works. I'm not crumbing out my data for free. If town wants my resources, then they need to focus on finding the process. My list regarding the players is still the same, MP, Drum, Man, Luna, and Cell. Though, if you choose between the two "named" players, I can assure you a 50% chance.

Adios Scotty, I trusted you 2nd most.

[DrumBeats]

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

Or again, the obvious answer: I am threatening Process elements, so the Process wants me dead. And you also seem to want me dead a bit too much as well. You keep trying to build a case on me based solely on the actions of an entity we know is 100% anti-everyone. Also, if Snapshot did check me, what reasoning would it have for saying I am 70% mafia and 30% Process. Should Snapshot somehow be an outside player trying to help who also checked me, it would express certainty that I was either mafia or process not both. I'm really seeing you as the Process right now.

I would also like to see MP answer to the accusations against him when he gets the chance. My vote will likely fall on one of you two.

[DrumBeats]

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

Also just noticed this. Show me where you thought it wasn't sincere. You agreed with the Snapshot's ISO wholeheartedly iirc.

[DrumBeats]

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

Also just noticed this. Show me where you thought it wasn't sincere. You agreed with the Snapshot's ISO wholeheartedly iirc.

Scratch that, I looked back and found it in the ISO, my bad.

[DrumBeats]

So in case I am actually dead tonight, I feel like importing that I agree that multiple people are running the sock accounts, and think they have their own agendas and win cons that may not be in the same realm as us. Therefore I don't see why we're going after them without hesitation. I'm looking at you, Drumbeats. You thought Mafia was giving us a gift of killing them, and advising us do the same. But I wouldn't be surprised if it were part of your own manipulation that you are Mafia speeding things up a little under the guise of a civ. I don't know why several if you view Drum as civ. Could someone enlighten me?

Wtf is Luna? Like, seriously. Wtf is that?

I view nijuu as town at this time.

I don't know if any of us are in fact Process at this time. I thought Mp might have been, but I'm still going with Mafia.

JJJ, who do you think looks the most suspicious of the non-elements?

In regards to that, I'll answer the same way I answered the Process Snapshot. If I were mafia and trying to manipulate things like that, I would have done it much earlier. If I could help it, every element (except Cell, since it's apparently kind of useless) would have been dead before a single real player. They're an unkown variable that I do not care for, especially when we know for sure that they are aligned with the Process, and they have votes. If its left alone it will win by sheer numbers. I'm not going to defend my plan/idea any more because I have been doing so since Day 1 and it is getting old.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

Or again, the obvious answer: I am threatening Process elements, so the Process wants me dead. And you also seem to want me dead a bit too much as well. You keep trying to build a case on me based solely on the actions of an entity we know is 100% anti-everyone. Also, if Snapshot did check me, what reasoning would it have for saying I am 70% mafia and 30% Process. Should Snapshot somehow be an outside player trying to help who also checked me, it would express certainty that I was either mafia or process not both. I'm really seeing you as the Process right now.

I would also like to see MP answer to the accusations against him when he gets the chance. My vote will likely fall on one of you two.

I don't think it's an obvious answer. If the Process is solely built on each of its elements, all of which serve its interests alone, then it is the most overpowered role I've ever seen. That would mean that whichever player is the Process would have the capacity to place numerous votes in most day phases, protect itself, role check, and who knows what else. Combine that with the diversity of the behavior exhibited by these elements, and I think there's plenty of reason to think that the Process elements might not be so clear-cut.

Many hosts would interpret what you suggest as an infodump (to express total certainty in a read that is derived from role information), and that is against the rules and generally frowned upon in this culture. A nearly identical numeral scenario actual arose in the Turf Wars game in which Sloonei knew himself to be a Don but still pretended to think two other players had a "3 out of 10" chance of being a don -- he knew that to be impossible, but he was avoiding an illegal infodump. In this example we can even observe that Snapshot did call you 100% bad -- he/she just didn't specify with certainty which bad.

I don't know with certainty whether Snapshot role checked you, but I do think there's a clear, objective reason to suspect that it happened. I don't think there's a clear, objective reason to say Snapshot is lying about you solely for the benefit of whichever player is the Process. There's a subjective reason to think so, but that's not as strong.

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

Also just noticed this. Show me where you thought it wasn't sincere. You agreed with the Snapshot's ISO wholeheartedly iirc.

Scratch that, I looked back and found it in the ISO, my bad.

Okay, you've corrected yourself, now what does that say to you about my motivations? You've called me the Process and threatened to vote for me based upon two assertions that are abjectly false (that I have tried to "build a case on you based upon Snapshot's ISO" prior to its role reveal and that I agreed with that ISO). I'd actually just spent time in the night phase explaining to Scotty why I had a civilian read on you. Your desire to deflect a valid concern back upon me based upon content that doesn't exist in my posts is a bad look too.

[MacDougall]

KILL ALL JIMMYS KILL ALL JIMMYS

[MacDougall]

SOUND THE JIMMY ALARM

[DFaraday]

I think JJJ makes some good points about Snapshot. If it's role checking people we shouldn't be quick to dismiss its suspicions (for that matter, it was also suspecting MP, right?). And I agree that one player controlling that many abilities seems unlikely, so we can't say that Snapshot is necessarily synonymous with the Process. I'm considering a Drum vote today, but I also want to look over the MP case, since I didn't quite catch what the case on him is about.

[Phoebe Buffay]

Lik hiiiiii! R we voting 4 who we want 2 tak 2 pr0m?

Cuz I want MacDougall. He seems reallllllly fun haha

[agleaminranks]

Sorry to see you go Scotty.

This role reveal is interesting. I will try and ISO the people that were pointed out by the lynched element.

kneel4justice, in all truthfulness, my rationale for voting you was minor suspicion for the night element voting I mentioned earlier. I know you had a theory about it but I wasn't sure, and I voted because you had no votes on yourself at the time and I knew it probably wouldn't go through with a lynch, and I still wasn't sure about voting for a Process element. I was trying to gauge a reaction and see how defensive you got, which was, not really. I think this point in the game I'm just trying to narrow down who seems baddest by reaction. It feels kind of hard to gauge voting patterns when the Process elements occupy a spot and we still can't agree on how to best tackle it, even though I have my own predisposition.

[agleaminranks]

Basically, this independent operator makes it difficult and frustrating to really get a read on someone. And civs just keep getting killed every night.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

SOUND THE JIMMY ALARM

Mac. What?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think JJJ makes some good points about Snapshot. If it's role checking people we shouldn't be quick to dismiss its suspicions (for that matter, it was also suspecting MP, right?). And I agree that one player controlling that many abilities seems unlikely, so we can't say that Snapshot is necessarily synonymous with the Process. I'm considering a Drum vote today, but I also want to look over the MP case, since I didn't quite catch what the case on him is about.

Yes, MP is the other "named" player that Snapshot has had a grievance about. He/she suggested that lynching one of those two gives us a "50% chance", I assume of a productive result. I don't know if that's meant to imply organic suspicion or information-based suspicion. Snapshot, are you able to add any clarity regarding your suspicion of MP?

[Snapshot]

instance loaded//

I think JJJ makes some good points about Snapshot. If it's role checking people we shouldn't be quick to dismiss its suspicions (for that matter, it was also suspecting MP, right?). And I agree that one player controlling that many abilities seems unlikely, so we can't say that Snapshot is necessarily synonymous with the Process. I'm considering a Drum vote today, but I also want to look over the MP case, since I didn't quite catch what the case on him is about.

Yes, MP is the other "named" player that Snapshot has had a grievance about. He/she suggested that lynching one of those two gives us a "50% chance", I assume of a productive result. I don't know if that's meant to imply organic suspicion or information-based suspicion. Snapshot, are you able to add any clarity regarding your suspicion of MP?

re//

Nope.

Like I stated, I can't crumb for free. Don't want mafia murking me (a confirmed role checker) before the process is eliminated. I will only validate that there's at least 50% chance to get a baddie if you vote between the two. I would like to add, I have no Idea what Luna is and it worries me.

If I ever give you 100% on someone though, nuke them off the face of the map.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MovingPictures07

One of the points against you that I think you need to address relates to the mobility of your nutella read prior to her lynch.

Spoiler: show

Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing

It indicates that Zebra is playing in an unhelpful manner to the town, at least.

*votes Zebra*

So we're just going to policy lynch her and not discuss anything else?

I thought I brought meaningful content to the discussion regarding nutella, and literally NO ONE has commented on it, or anything else I've said about zebra. Why does it seem like no one gives a shit whether zebra is town or not?

This is nonsense.

This is from Day 1 when you were crapping in people's cereal bowls for the Zebra wagon. You lamented loudly that your case against nutella did not garner more attention, and that you felt it was a better course to follow than Zebra's Day 1 behavior. It's evident that at this point in the game, you were voicing strong suspicion of nutella, probably stronger than you were voicing of anyone else.

Spoiler: show

MP Rainbow List #2

Slight Town:
AllAlongtheBoardwalk
DrumBeats
JaggedJimmyJay
nijuukyugou

Null:
a2thezebra
agleaminranks
DrWilgy
Matt
reywaS
sig
thellama73

Slight Mafia:
DFaraday
Elohcin
Illyria
Nerolunar
nutella

This is more or less affirmed by your subsequent Day 1 rainbow featuring nutella's name at dead last.

Spoiler: show

MP: is your read on nutella impacted by the shift in your read on Elohcin?

Inevitably, yeah, but I don't have any flips yet, so I'm hesitant to move nutella to null or town just based on Elo's descent. I still would like to hear from nutella before re-evaluating.

Less than 15 minutes.

nutella, llama, sig, and rey: Where are you?

ok, sorry I have not been here, just caught up but it is kinda a blur. RIP zebra and sig.

MP, your reasons for suspecting me seem to be mostly the fact that I found Elo and Drum suspicious and that my "relatively strong diction" or whatever. Idk man I was just expressing my reaction to their posts and found them suspicious. After Drum explained what he meant a bit more clearly I don't really suspect him as much, but I've been finding Elo to be more suspicious and it looks like she was sort of evasive yesterday so I will be looking at her today. I haven't gotten particular pings from anyone else but I'm interested in hearing more from Illy, Nero, and Llama.

When you get the chance, I'm intrigued to hear more detail about why you inevitably went with Nero over Elo (and Illy and Llama).

ok, sorry I have not been here, just caught up but it is kinda a blur. RIP zebra and sig.

MP, your reasons for suspecting me seem to be mostly the fact that I found Elo and Drum suspicious and that my "relatively strong diction" or whatever. Idk man I was just expressing my reaction to their posts and found them suspicious. After Drum explained what he meant a bit more clearly I don't really suspect him as much, but I've been finding Elo to be more suspicious and it looks like she was sort of evasive yesterday so I will be looking at her today. I haven't gotten particular pings from anyone else but I'm interested in hearing more from Illy, Nero, and Llama.

When you get the chance, I'm intrigued to hear more detail about why you inevitably went with Nero over Elo (and Illy and Llama).

I've just gotten a really strong baddie vibe from Nero's posts recently. I think at least some of it was when he complained about never winning, and some of it was his decision to vote for young lady, but it's a gut read that goes beyond those concrete things. By the time Elo posted her reply to Matt after I said I'd give her a chance to come in before voting, I realized that my gut read on Nero felt stronger, and I looked back over Elo's posts and began to doubt myself as I read her as more genuine/getting trapped by indefensible attacks. I guess she fooled me with her emotional appeal, next time I won't second-guess myself :/

Makes sense. Thanks!

These are the posts you make primarily about nutella between the previous rainbow I quoted here and this next one:

Spoiler: show

MP Rainbow List #3 - Night 2

Moderate Town:
JaggedJimmyJay
DrWilgy
AllAlongtheBoardwalk

Slight Town:
nijuukyugou
kneel4justice (reywaS)
nutella

Slight Mafia:
DrumBeats
Matt
thellama73

Moderate Mafia:
MacDougall (Illyria)
DFaraday
agleaminranks
Nerolunar

Note that now I'm trying to rank players within groups, but that these feelings are very tentative, pending further investigation in light of Elo's mafia flip and everyone's d1 and d2 votes. Forced myself to get rid of null reads.

She's moved from your top suspect into the green pile, and it's really not clear why. You prodded her with a few questions, and when she provided an answer you were quite gracious: "Makes sense. Thanks!" She climbed a significant distance up your rainbow, and I think it's hard to believe that her climb can be explained by her answer to one question. What was it about nutella's answer that inspired you so much?

Then we'll follow the progression again directly to the next rainbow. You didn't discuss nutella in any posts between these two rainbows:

Spoiler: show

Lastly, having examined JJJ's interactive ISOs (thanks for doing that by the way!) and finished catching up, I have an updated rainbow list for you all. Here it is!

MP Rainbow List #4 - Day 3

Moderate Town:
JaggedJimmyJay
nijuukyugou
Scotty (AATB)

Slight Town:
DrWilgy
kneel4justice (reywaS)
DrumBeats

Slight Mafia:
thellama73
nutella

Moderate Mafia:
MacDougall (Illyria)
DFaraday
Nerolunar
agleaminranks

As such, I'm happy with my vote today.

Thoughts? Questions or comments? What would your list look like?

I have to get back to work now and will continue to be quite busy. I think I've either directly or indirectly addressed everything that everyone has wanted from me as well; if not, please let me know ASAP. See you all later!

She has again fallen into the badlands. The only "explanation" I can identify is the one I've highlighted. You attributed your updated rainbow to my interactive analyses.

Spoiler: show

Cya Wilgy!

Yo MP! Are you still suspicious of Nutella?

Looking at Wilgy's suspect pool, I see JJJ from the past day and then you, MP. Could be trying to silence him before taking off, but that's some WIFOM shit with a cherry on top. Overanalyzation of NK's will turn me into a pumpkin.

I will admit that I have tunneled a bit on you over the past day, MP, without proper evidence to back it up. I just get nervous around you since the champions game. I know you are not averse to bussing teammates, and your suspicion of Elo and leading up to your Elo vote seemed to come out of nowhere.

I'd call nutella a slight mafia read at the moment. I'd rather lynch a moderate or better read, but yeah, she could be mafia I suppose.

I understand tinfoiling me due to prior performance, but I'd hope you judge me based on my actions purely in this game and find my alignment based on those (hint: I'm town). Can you explain how my Elo vote came out of nowhere? I responded to JJJ and others earlier explaining my train of thought which showed my progression up until my return to the thread (during which I was very vocal). What do you still want me to address about that?

This was your commentary about nutella on Day 4, when she was lynched. You didn't place your vote on her, but you contributed to the climate of the thread that facilitated her lynch. To me this progression looks inauthentic -- there's not sufficient material to justify your first change in your read from bad to good, and there's even less to justify your moving her back to bad. Opportunism doesn't have to include an actual vote, especially in a landslide lynch like nutella's was.

[kneel4justice]

So Snapshot is a role-checker? That gives me better reason to consider the suspicion it had of DrumBeats. It suspected MP as well? When was this? I need to go see. Considering MP's lack of participation and Scotty's death, he might be a more favorable lynch than DrumBeats..especially since I think while Snapshot is a role-checker, it could still serve as an agenda to help the process survive, which would explain a faulty case against DrumBeats, hoping we would listen to it.

[kneel4justice]

I think Llama and Mac have both been sliding by. I would like to hear more from them. It would not surprise me if at least one of them is bad, because as I have been struggling with suspicions, I think that could mean that the baddies are among these lower posters who are sort of breezing by.

[DrumBeats]

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

Or again, the obvious answer: I am threatening Process elements, so the Process wants me dead. And you also seem to want me dead a bit too much as well. You keep trying to build a case on me based solely on the actions of an entity we know is 100% anti-everyone. Also, if Snapshot did check me, what reasoning would it have for saying I am 70% mafia and 30% Process. Should Snapshot somehow be an outside player trying to help who also checked me, it would express certainty that I was either mafia or process not both. I'm really seeing you as the Process right now.

I would also like to see MP answer to the accusations against him when he gets the chance. My vote will likely fall on one of you two.

I don't think it's an obvious answer. If the Process is solely built on each of its elements, all of which serve its interests alone, then it is the most overpowered role I've ever seen. That would mean that whichever player is the Process would have the capacity to place numerous votes in most day phases, protect itself, role check, and who knows what else. Combine that with the diversity of the behavior exhibited by these elements, and I think there's plenty of reason to think that the Process elements might not be so clear-cut.

It wouldn't be though when the entire game is also against them. If played cautiously as I suggested, this possible OP role would have been cut down to a vanilla who needs to be last man standing, which is way UP. We know for sure that regardless of what these roles are controlled by, they are all aligned with the Process. The fact that the OP says that "The Process manifests itself in different ways" before listing all of these makes me readily believe that all are controlled by the process.

Many hosts would interpret what you suggest as an infodump (to express total certainty in a read that is derived from role information), and that is against the rules and generally frowned upon in this culture. A nearly identical numeral scenario actual arose in the Turf Wars game in which Sloonei knew himself to be a Don but still pretended to think two other players had a "3 out of 10" chance of being a don -- he knew that to be impossible, but he was avoiding an illegal infodump. In this example we can even observe that Snapshot did call you 100% bad -- he/she just didn't specify with certainty which bad.

Ah, that sort of makes sense I suppose. I still think using percents though would be a terrible approach if a check was the basis. Then it could be a gut read type scenario that could be pushed a la "You just have to trust me"

I don't know with certainty whether Snapshot role checked you, but I do think there's a clear, objective reason to suspect that it happened. I don't think there's a clear, objective reason to say Snapshot is lying about you solely for the benefit of whichever player is the Process. There's a subjective reason to think so, but that's not as strong.

We know with certainty that the Process needs to be last man standing. We have a clear, objective reason to suspect that Snapshot is aligned with the Process. Therefore there is a clear, objective reason as to why Snapshot would be acting in benefit of the Process.

Later Scotty.

Snapshot was revealed as a role checker. My immediate reaction to that is it's not a good look for DrumBeats. My perception that Snaphot's ISO on DrumBeats didn't seem entirely sincere could be resolved by the role check -- if Snapshot knows DB is bad, then he/she/it has to convey it somehow, and a big ISO is an ideal method.

Also just noticed this. Show me where you thought it wasn't sincere. You agreed with the Snapshot's ISO wholeheartedly iirc.

Scratch that, I looked back and found it in the ISO, my bad.

Okay, you've corrected yourself, now what does that say to you about my motivations? You've called me the Process and threatened to vote for me based upon two assertions that are abjectly false (that I have tried to "build a case on you based upon Snapshot's ISO" prior to its role reveal and that I agreed with that ISO). I'd actually just spent time in the night phase explaining to Scotty why I had a civilian read on you. Your desire to deflect a valid concern back upon me based upon content that doesn't exist in my posts is a bad look too.

The first one is completely just my bad. Your first post after the ISO was what I was thinking, in which you pushed it's legitimacy by stressing it not be ignored, which honestly as the ISO as a whole is a barrel of WIFOM, I misinterpreted that at first as agreeing with it. Second part I have bolded and underlined where you tried to subtly paint me bad for Snapshot's ISO, which you previously denied legitimacy. A bit of inconsistent thought Process (ba dum tsss) but for now I will let it slide. I still have a hankering you could be the Process, but it isn't anything worth pushing until all of the mafia are gone. If I were to percent it out it would be 70/25/5 for civ/process/mafia right now.

I am still intrigued to hear MP's response to the nutella argument. I likely won't have time to make a large post tomorrow, but I will look back, read, and make a quick vote.

Agleam is likely not the Process due to his most recent post. He derped on which element died, thinking we needed to look at Snapshot as the dead element. The real Process would likely be more aware of which of its elements were currently living.

DFaraday, MacDougall, Llama, and agleam I would like at least 2 town reads and 2 scum reads from each of you, you guys have been coasting imo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It wouldn't be though when the entire game is also against them. If played cautiously as I suggested, this possible OP role would have been cut down to a vanilla who needs to be last man standing, which is way UP. We know for sure that regardless of what these roles are controlled by, they are all aligned with the Process. The fact that the OP says that "The Process manifests itself in different ways" before listing all of these makes me readily believe that all are controlled by the process.

The entire game would be against a typical serial killer too. That's a normal last-man-standing rogue role and it's not remotely as powerful as this Process would be. You're right that if the elements of the Process are systematically destroyed by both town and mafia could in theory serve as a sort of "balancing effect", but there lies the rub -- the Process would have a significant ability to protect itself in both of those dynamics. It can place numerous votes. It can affect night actions performed upon its elements. There are numerous other roles still unrevealed that may add even more strength. Most importantly, the host has to recognize that this is a very abnormal faction to present in the first place, and to expect townies and baddies to deliberately coordinate on anything is an extremely tall order without preliminary hints being given. Townies and baddies are always going to be at odds from the first page onward by the very nature of the game of Mafia, and any potential distraction from that is likely to be outright dismissed by many. I don't know how a host resolves that problem.

I'll admit that this is all quite speculative, and it's not possible right now to know whether my assertion or your assertion is closest to reality. I think it can be reduced to one simple question though, and I'll ask you:

If you think the player who is the Process controls all of the elements, then do you suggest we should be ignoring their posts?

We know with certainty that the Process needs to be last man standing. We have a clear, objective reason to suspect that Snapshot is aligned with the Process. Therefore there is a clear, objective reason as to why Snapshot would be acting in benefit of the Process.

I suppose you could say so. I want you to engage in a quick thought experiment:

Snapshot has just been revealed as a role checker. All present circumstance is the same, except the ISO Snapshot put in the thread focused on some other player not named DrumBeats. What would your perspective of that scenario be?

[thellama73]

As usual, Mac is 100% right. Kill all Jimmies.

[thellama73]

Old JimBob has been playing us for fools from the start. He thinks he is so clever. Well I see right through him. Kill all Jimmies.

[Tangrowth]

I know I haven't been great at participating in a while or at addressing my accusers. I have like a half an hour max now, then unfortunately I need to leave to teach and won't be home until after the deadline, so I'll try to do what I can.

With respect to my lynch vote, I don't want to lynch JJJ. I don't really have any reason to believe that he's bad, and Llama and Mac pushing the easy button on it over and over again with practically no attempt to convince anyone else doesn't do anything for me.

[Tangrowth]

To anyone who is considering a vote for me and wants me to answer for suspicions:

Please let me know if I've missed anything still, but it seems the only main thing that people want to hear from me is regarding my shifting viewpoint of nutella (something Scotty also was badgering me for).

Here are the relevant quotes I could find:

Checking in on phone (celebrating my brother's birthday; don't want to miss the vote, but I'd like to give proper attention to my guest and family). For what I've been able to pay attention to for the last couple of days, I'm gonna vote MP. When I flip-flop on him, he's almost always bad, and his going after nutella yet reluctance to vote her way from said suspicion looks like a baddie knowing to avoid a lynch. I know that's not an awesome, eloquent explanation for my vote, but phone typing sucks and party calls. I'll address other stuff when I'm able to be more attentive.

As well as JJJ's semi-ISO thing of me asking me to address the nutella question (didn't quote because spoiler tag issues).

My changing viewpoint of nutella from bad early on to the green (good) range was based solely on her interactions with Elohcin, and not on nutella's answers to anyone or any of her own behavior on its own. I just didn't believe it likely that nutella would have been one of the very first people to have a suspicion of Elo, and furthermore, express a willingness so early in Day 1 to vote for her, if Elohcin were her teammate. Seems unnecessarily committal and setting up for a bus that didn't even seem likely to happen. So considering that, I upped my viewpoint of her given Elo's flip.

Regarding nutella's change back, yes, as JJJ noted, I cited his nutella / Elo interactive analysis and his accompanying rainbow. I didn't have time to conduct such interactive analyses myself, and I know my current limits due to RL, so I thoroughly reviewed them and considered them when reevaluating my rainbow. I didn't realize how little Elo had talked with nutella, and upon viewing what nutella actually said to Elo, I thought that maybe I was over-emphasizing nutella's initial bus-happy vocal inclination to vote off a teammate, and reevaluated her failure to vote for Elo when the goings got rough as well as the interactive behavior and moved her down. The reason I stuck with my guns by voting for gleam were because I still didn't feel confident enough to move nutella down to the dark red portion of my rainbow since I had reason in her early history with Elo to still doubt a nutella lynch was the best way to go. I didn't know that everyone else was just going to vote nutella without even discussing gleam, and I figured me voting for him would spur some discussion in my absence; clearly that wasn't the case. I still think gleam, Mac, and DF are solid candidates to consider for Elo teammates given their interactive analyses, vote history, and other thread content, but I'm not sold on any particular one of them over another, and I despise the characterization that Scotty made of my gleam suspicion as a NO U. It was never a NO U. It's clear in my ISO that I suspected gleam for his behavior surrounding Elo. Yes, I didn't understand his suspicion of me, but that alone didn't remotely serve as the basis for suspecting him. I had no "pause" in voting for gleam, unlike I did for nutella once we found out that Elo was bad.

I know I haven't been the best at portraying my train of thought, so hopefully that clears it up enough on that matter. I'm not sure what to say to nijuu's "I'm always bad" comment; I have just as much a statistical chance of being good as anyone else, and I've been civilian plenty lately and I am again here. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with her flip flopping on me either.

[Tangrowth]

Unfortunately I have to leave like... now, so I need to vote. I'd still consider a vote for Mac, gleam, or DF, but I don't feel super compelled to vote one of them in particular, and considering recent events unfolding with respect to Snapshot being revealed as role checker, and the possibility that I may be in danger of dying today without being around to cast a defense vote... I'm not sure what to do, but I think the best thing I can do with my vote is to vote for DrumBeats. If Snapshot says that there is a 50% chance one of either me or DrumBeats is bad, I know I'm not bad, then that means there's a 50% chance DrumBeats is bad. I also think, somewhat selfishly, that it seems people will coalesce around DrumBeats more easily than any of the three previous players I mentioned (maybe?), and I'm the only player I know is civilian, and we can't afford a mislynch at this stage of the game with The Process still in play and 3 mafia still alive. Further, while I didn't have any problems with DrumBeats's "plan" with respect to The Process once it was clear what he was saying, I think his recent insistence that we should keep lynching members of The Process could be a good way for him as mafia to keep the thread away from hunting for the mafia. So, with everything said, I am voting DrumBeats, even though I don't feel very confident about it. I'd rather trust the 50% check and try to act in pre-emptive self-preservation in this key phase than throw out a potentially meaningless vote.

[nijuukyugou]

Woo, I have returned from inattention and the loveliest of lovely weekends! I shall catch up with what I've missed in a bit after I eat and before trivia, because I am a hungrysaurus rex that didn't eat lunch due to an asinine exam schedule at work that basically gave me a 20 minute break between monitoring kids for, oh, seven hours

I don't know why I'm telling you all this, except that I had no interaction with adults today, I suppose. Thanks for being adults. Anyway, back in a few.

[DrumBeats]

@Jimmy I think they should be ignored. It's all WIFOM at this point. If somebody else were in the ISO I would feel the same way about it, there's no point trying to deduce the motives behind what a confirmed anti-everyone role says.

MP will be my vote for the day. I don't find his defense compelling and his suspicions feel forced. Three low contributors, but no strong opinion on any, is a safe thing to say but not push, and then the vote on me based solely upon trusting the Process is beyond irrational imo and citing that I suggested we keep lynching the elements without mafia cooperation as evidence against me, which is 100% untrue.

[MacDougall]

Jay and Silent Film 2

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay hell no. We're two hours from the deadline of what is likely a critical phase of this game, and I am currently in line to be lynched based on literally nothing. Let's review.

[nijuukyugou]

Okay holy crap, that was a lot of content for only a few pages. I'll discuss what caught my eye/what I have time to discuss at the moment, and then vote.

I'm thinking that these sock-puppet accounts are run by different players who aren't on the sign-up list (Golden, birdwithteeth, Roxy, etc) and that these players have access to a thread that no one else can see - which is where these snapshots are coming from. Maybe the longer the game goes on, the more elements/players are added in....so it is best to lynch the process elements earlier in the game. What isn't making sense for me is, the process must be 1 of the 17 original players since there were 17 roles..I'd think that it would make most sense to need that player dead rather than the sockpuppet accounts??

Anyway, I definitely don't think that the ISO on DrumBeats is valid. I think it comes with an obvious agenda. But certainly Roxy (I am just going to assume for now that she really wrote that post) would have known the ISO would not come with an actual lynch outcome. So that doesn't quite make sense.
Also, with the above being said, I'd also disagree that JJJ is running the sockpuppet accounts.

What don't you like about the ISO on DrumBeats, and why don't you think I'm running the socks?

I think the ISO is coming from a member of the process.
I also think it would make sense for the members of the process to want DrumBeats dead. Especially now, since it would appear that Drumbeat's original plan/offer for the mafia to kill an element and then the town to lynch an element is happening.
Also, the part of the ISO that suggests DrumBeats could be the process just looks to me that the ISO is bias/unreliable and that the account was doing anything they could to paint DrumBeats as suspicious.
But that is also making me wonder if this is some kind of reverse psychology, because certainly this sock puppet account should know that we would not take the ISO seriously.

I do not think you're the sockpuppet accounts, because as I stated, I am thinking the sockpuppet accounts are being run by players who are not on the original sign-up list....did you even read my post?

I agree with two things in this (or at least, I agree with what I'm interpreting in this post): one, the non-seriousness of what the sock puppets are posting. I believe they are around to cause thread chaos, as a good indy/LMS role tends to do. Two, DrumBeats is taking Snapshot's ISO/suspicion of him super-seriously. Actually, I'm surprised so many people are taking what these socks are saying super seriously. TBH, I'm skipping most of what they're saying, because again, chaos.

Old JimBob has been playing us for fools from the start. He thinks he is so clever. Well I see right through him. Kill all Jimmies.

What. I get that you're busy, but this doesn't help or clear up your viewpoint or really give any credence to any argument against him. You and Mac. What is going on here? Give us more than that.

DFaraday's coasting under the radar. This is fairly usual, but also very dangerous. I noticed this as I read, and kept forgetting he was playing until I re-read. Gonna get a closer look at him and would definitely like to hear more.

To anyone who is considering a vote for me and wants me to answer for suspicions:

Please let me know if I've missed anything still, but it seems the only main thing that people want to hear from me is regarding my shifting viewpoint of nutella (something Scotty also was badgering me for).

Here are the relevant quotes I could find:

Checking in on phone (celebrating my brother's birthday; don't want to miss the vote, but I'd like to give proper attention to my guest and family). For what I've been able to pay attention to for the last couple of days, I'm gonna vote MP. When I flip-flop on him, he's almost always bad, and his going after nutella yet reluctance to vote her way from said suspicion looks like a baddie knowing to avoid a lynch. I know that's not an awesome, eloquent explanation for my vote, but phone typing sucks and party calls. I'll address other stuff when I'm able to be more attentive.

As well as JJJ's semi-ISO thing of me asking me to address the nutella question (didn't quote because spoiler tag issues).

My changing viewpoint of nutella from bad early on to the green (good) range was based solely on her interactions with Elohcin, and not on nutella's answers to anyone or any of her own behavior on its own. I just didn't believe it likely that nutella would have been one of the very first people to have a suspicion of Elo, and furthermore, express a willingness so early in Day 1 to vote for her, if Elohcin were her teammate. Seems unnecessarily committal and setting up for a bus that didn't even seem likely to happen. So considering that, I upped my viewpoint of her given Elo's flip.

Regarding nutella's change back, yes, as JJJ noted, I cited his nutella / Elo interactive analysis and his accompanying rainbow. I didn't have time to conduct such interactive analyses myself, and I know my current limits due to RL, so I thoroughly reviewed them and considered them when reevaluating my rainbow. I didn't realize how little Elo had talked with nutella, and upon viewing what nutella actually said to Elo, I thought that maybe I was over-emphasizing nutella's initial bus-happy vocal inclination to vote off a teammate, and reevaluated her failure to vote for Elo when the goings got rough as well as the interactive behavior and moved her down. The reason I stuck with my guns by voting for gleam were because I still didn't feel confident enough to move nutella down to the dark red portion of my rainbow since I had reason in her early history with Elo to still doubt a nutella lynch was the best way to go. I didn't know that everyone else was just going to vote nutella without even discussing gleam, and I figured me voting for him would spur some discussion in my absence; clearly that wasn't the case. I still think gleam, Mac, and DF are solid candidates to consider for Elo teammates given their interactive analyses, vote history, and other thread content, but I'm not sold on any particular one of them over another, and I despise the characterization that Scotty made of my gleam suspicion as a NO U. It was never a NO U. It's clear in my ISO that I suspected gleam for his behavior surrounding Elo. Yes, I didn't understand his suspicion of me, but that alone didn't remotely serve as the basis for suspecting him. I had no "pause" in voting for gleam, unlike I did for nutella once we found out that Elo was bad.

I know I haven't been the best at portraying my train of thought, so hopefully that clears it up enough on that matter. I'm not sure what to say to nijuu's "I'm always bad" comment; I have just as much a statistical chance of being good as anyone else, and I've been civilian plenty lately and I am again here. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with her flip flopping on me either.

As others have said, it's not the fact that you're changing your mind. You explained that. People do that. This is good behavior for someone who is paying attention and trying to think through their reads rather than tunnel or pick randomly. It's that there was no explanation at the time for the change. At all. Like you were hoping it would slip by, that it would blend in. As someone said (JJJ? Scotty? Can't remember), it was easy for you to go back and explain your changes of heart/thought process once you were pressed, but it didn't change the fact at the time (I'm not particularly eloquent now because I'm running out of time and, as usual, I've spent way too much time tabbing and writing and getting this shit together). Someone also mentioned that, sure, you're busy, but you happen to get less active when the heat comes on you? Right at that time? Either extremely unfortunate, or too convenient to be coincidental. As for my "you're always bad" comment, I'm not saying you're always bad. Of course you're statistically as likely to be good/bad as anyone else. Why even mention this? I'm saying when I have a hard time deciding your alignment, when I flip-flop, when you do this sort of manipulative back and forth, you've been bad. Your behavior is bad. I think you're bad. I'm going to vote for you now.

I so wish I had more time right now to look more carefully into posts and be more eloquent (especially regarding the low/nonsense posters). This will have to suffice for now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

KILL ALL JIMMYS KILL ALL JIMMYS

SOUND THE JIMMY ALARM

Jay and Silent Film 2

Mac entered this critical phase, dropped a vote on me while screaming caps lock nonsense, and at no point has he really pushed my lynch. I struggle to believe that this can be genuine suspicion; it looks like a deliberate gamble. In a pressured phase of the game, if MacDougall (the player in this game who probably knows me better than any other) really thinks I am suspicious and should be lynched for it, then he'd be promoting that lynch with a case. Looking further back in his ISO, this isn't resolved. At one point he literally said I haven't been scummy and that I'm a "policy lynch". This read progression does not appear authentic at all, primarily because there is no progression.

There's a good possibility the game largely hangs on this lynch with the numbers ratio potentially dire, and that I have received votes for literally no reason is the opposite of inspiring.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

As usual, Mac is 100% right. Kill all Jimmies.

Old JimBob has been playing us for fools from the start. He thinks he is so clever. Well I see right through him. Kill all Jimmies.

What the hell does this even mean, llama? "He thinks he is so clever". What have I done at any point in this game that you would qualify as "playing us for fools"? These assertions are just dropped into your post with no support or rationale. You've been gliding through the game on this b/s. If you think I'm bad then you should be able to provide a reason that bears substance. Every criticism you've leveled upon me in this game has been nonsense frankly -- that I am a thread steerer (accurate observation but irrelevant to whether I'm good or bad), that I try too hard (no examples given despite repeated prodding of moments when my efforts haven't been sincere), etc.

llama and Mac are both capable townies and I am pretty sure they recognize that the game is in an important phase right now. So that they've both just shit in my corn flakes and voted for me with absolutely no effort to engage me or even promote a substantive case is total crap. I don't see how either of these guys can be authentic at this point.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My changing viewpoint of nutella from bad early on to the green (good) range was based solely on her interactions with Elohcin, and not on nutella's answers to anyone or any of her own behavior on its own. I just didn't believe it likely that nutella would have been one of the very first people to have a suspicion of Elo, and furthermore, express a willingness so early in Day 1 to vote for her, if Elohcin were her teammate. Seems unnecessarily committal and setting up for a bus that didn't even seem likely to happen. So considering that, I upped my viewpoint of her given Elo's flip.

There's the rub. I don't think this explanation meshes with what you said at that point in the game when I specifically prodded you on this point:

MP: is your read on nutella impacted by the shift in your read on Elohcin?

Inevitably, yeah, but I don't have any flips yet, so I'm hesitant to move nutella to null or town just based on Elo's descent. I still would like to hear from nutella before re-evaluating.

You acknowledged the potential for a changed read, but only tentatively given furture responses from nutella. There's no follow-up after this, your read simply changed. The progression is not easily traceable, and that's not something I expect from the most deliberately transparent townie I know in MP.

Regarding nutella's change back, yes, as JJJ noted, I cited his nutella / Elo interactive analysis and his accompanying rainbow. I didn't have time to conduct such interactive analyses myself, and I know my current limits due to RL, so I thoroughly reviewed them and considered them when reevaluating my rainbow. I didn't realize how little Elo had talked with nutella, and upon viewing what nutella actually said to Elo, I thought that maybe I was over-emphasizing nutella's initial bus-happy vocal inclination to vote off a teammate, and reevaluated her failure to vote for Elo when the goings got rough as well as the interactive behavior and moved her down.

As others have suggested -- this is a retrospective explanation, and I think you had the ability to offer it at the time even if you were busy. This isn't a thoroughly analytic effort, it's a simple and brief explanation of why you felt my interactive grade on nutella was good enough to cancel your prior town read. To change a mind is not an offense, but to do so without a clear and visible progression at the relevant period of the game (particularly about a player who was landslide mislynched) is not ideal.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Unfortunately I have to leave like... now, so I need to vote. I'd still consider a vote for Mac, gleam, or DF, but I don't feel super compelled to vote one of them in particular, and considering recent events unfolding with respect to Snapshot being revealed as role checker, and the possibility that I may be in danger of dying today without being around to cast a defense vote... I'm not sure what to do, but I think the best thing I can do with my vote is to vote for DrumBeats. If Snapshot says that there is a 50% chance one of either me or DrumBeats is bad, I know I'm not bad, then that means there's a 50% chance DrumBeats is bad. I also think, somewhat selfishly, that it seems people will coalesce around DrumBeats more easily than any of the three previous players I mentioned (maybe?), and I'm the only player I know is civilian, and we can't afford a mislynch at this stage of the game with The Process still in play and 3 mafia still alive. Further, while I didn't have any problems with DrumBeats's "plan" with respect to The Process once it was clear what he was saying, I think his recent insistence that we should keep lynching members of The Process could be a good way for him as mafia to keep the thread away from hunting for the mafia. So, with everything said, I am voting DrumBeats, even though I don't feel very confident about it. I'd rather trust the 50% check and try to act in pre-emptive self-preservation in this key phase than throw out a potentially meaningless vote.

This doesn't make sense to me. You named three suspects and one of them has a vote (Mac). If your interest is self-preservation and a player you named a suspect is a viable alternative to your own lynch, then the golden opportunity to place that vote is in front of you. So I don't understand why you've opted to place a DrumBeats vote instead, a player who at the time had no votes. You laboriously explain that decision, but that explanation doesn't resolve that core problem. Even considering the Snapshot role checker scenario, your willingness to vote in that direction based upon the "50% check" suggests to me that you know there's some validity in that check -- which could implicate you just as it could implicate DrumBeats.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think MP is a better vote than DrumBeats right now. Beyond that, Mac and llama are my top suspects. There's no discernible town rationale for their treatment of this day phase and their votes that I can see.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm voting MP.

[dodo]

[Snapshot]

responce needed//
@>host: what becomes of the kill() function after all potential USER are no longer present?

clone instanced///

After reading through the thread, I cannot find anyone seeming like they have more information than others (exception DrumBeats). Perhaps the process is hiding amogst low posters. Interesting how quickly Drum and MP bussed one another.

linki-Cell, who do you want to win?

report//