Psych Mafia [END]

[Scotty]

@Russ I know how frustrated you are, and that's why I'm having trouble voting you- you're having a lot of the same frustrations I'm having, which reads genuine to me.

Also Russ, you can't vote yourself. I did that already then looked up the rules. It's illegal

I worked from 6pm to 4am yesterday, got 2 hrs sleep and now I'm transferring my mom from one nursing center of another...my day is pretty full...

That's being said, I'm reading the thread and WILL vote before poll closes. Russ' recent pleas kinda strike a chord with me, though. I need to for a bit. We NEED to get this right to get back in this game or have any hope of achieving a civ victory.

Someone earlier, I think Scotty maybe, questioned my gift exchange w/ Elo. I.hope.ots not crossing a line but I'm gonna say it anyway: there's no danger in the gift I'm exchanging. It CAN ONLY HELP if Elon is a civ (and the civ I think she may possibly be) or else do absolutely nothing if she's one of the baddies. I've tried to be active with items but nothing I've done seems to have produced any results, unfortunately.

I'm not questioning your gift exchange. Hell, I gifted you an item last night (this isn't breaking rules afaik) so if anyone wants an item, it's me, should I still be alive.

Rabbit had Multiple items in his possession when I inherited the role. None of them benefited me so I gifted them our to who I thought were civs. Hope y'all use it to your advantage.

And what about Elo strikes you as a certain civ role? Do you think she's Shawn?

[Elohcin]

I'm shocked that it took someone until Day 6 to suspect me for something. I don't really think there is a good case against me. If you nit-pick a post here and there, you can say, "oh all she has done is follow Epi" which you've done. But if you read through ALL my posts, you will see that is not true. Though, Epi has seemed very much on the ball this game. And you show I have a bad voting record. Yup...but so do SO many other players. Anyway...lynch me, don;t lynch me. Whatever. It won't e good for the civs if you do. And it won't get you any closer to winning.

What do you think of Elo? She has done nothing this phase but agree with you and make sure she gets that item from BDH.[/quote]

I've been crazy busy.

I vote more people follow Epi and vote me. In fact, I'll be the first. One of the longest weeks of my life, and I don't have energy to try to save this game. So lynch me, and please, for the love of God, do 2 things when I die:

1) Lynch timmer. THat way we'll have done at least one thing right this game.
2) Dethrone Epi as King of the Thread. I mean, it was a pretty inactive game, and someone had to fill the void, so in that respect Epi is helping. But he's wrong, and the vast majority of the thread is treating his word like gold. It lets baddies skate by when 2/3 of voters say "Oh sure, whatever Epi said. That'll be good."

This post is odd. I will never understand why people would rather be killed/lynched than try to get a replacement for themselves. No matter your alignment, you should have enough respect for your "team" to at least try to get a replacement instead of just give up. You're only making it more difficult for them to win that way.

[Elohcin]

I messed up the quotes there, sorry. The first paragraph is from me. Then, it was Scotty, I believe that said the first quote to which I responded that I've been busy.

[insertnamehere]

SO WHY ARE YOU CONTEMPLATING VOTING INH? Jeez, I'm sorry I sound like a broken French horn, but you're being purposefully vague.

Epi, I know that this one point about me has turned into some kind of pissing contest between you and Scotty, and if you answer it'll be like giving up on a passive-aggressive tug-of-war, but if you could elaborate on why you suspect me, that'd be nice.

When someone uses what information is available to him to figure things out, I would expect other civilians to appreciate the effort and the direction. You are indignant about it. Why?

You say sig is Yang, which isn't based on anything but his escape of the Day 1 lynch. I provided a logically sound analysis regarding sig.

So now anybody who doesn't think Sig is Shawn is obviously wrong? Here's your own undeniable, "logically sound" analysis.

The prevailing idea is that, because sig survived a lynched, he is either Shawn or Yang. The Crooked Cops want Yin and Yang out of the way because Y&Y are a direct threat to their enterprise (see MM). There have been not one, but two failed kill attempts. I believe sig was at least one of those. He wasn't killed.

Are there other possibilities? There always are. But I have to do the best with the information available, and that's the conclusion I have drawn.

So because sig is still in the game, he must equal Shawn? Really? It seems like an inference to me, one that's valid, I will admit, but also one that's easily disproven and not one that I'd be singing from the rooftops. It seems like you're constantly going out of your way to emphasize sig's civvie-ness, Epig. Not sure how I feel about that.

[insertnamehere]

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. Scotty seems to be acting the same as he was in his 1.0 edition, give or take a changed suspicion or two, and we all seem to be acting the same way towards him. By which I mean tying a noose around his neck, and beckoning him towards the gallows. Russ and Scotty are the two people who are making the most sense to me right now, and I'd have to see some pretty serious stuff against them before I'd want to vote their way.

Epig seems like one of two things: Either a confuzzled, frazzled civ, or Mr. Yin. As of right now, I'm leaning towards the former. He's formed a little clique around himself, namely BDH, Elo, and BWT that I find a little bit more lynch-worthy than the man himself.

I'd like to pose a question to all three.

@BDH, Elo, and BWT, name one person you suspect that Epignosis didn't influence you towards.

Of course, in no way am I entitled to an answer, but I'll likely be voting according to the response I like least.

It's Day 6, and Epignosis has helped lead the lynch wagon for most of the days prior. We've yet to lynch a single baddie. You gotta imagine that the scummeisters have been giddy with joy over these civ-directed cases that Epi has been pushing. I think we're way more likely to find some scum among his followers than in the replacements or whatever.

[timmer]

Epig seems like one of two things: Either a confuzzled, frazzled civ, or Mr. Yin. As of right now, I'm leaning towards the former. He's formed a little clique around himself, namely BDH, Elo, and BWT that I find a little bit more lynch-worthy than the man himself.

Why Mr. Yin and not Mr. Yang?

[Elohcin]

@BDH, Elo, and BWT, name one person you suspect that Epignosis didn't influence you towards.

BWT

[insertnamehere]

Epig seems like one of two things: Either a confuzzled, frazzled civ, or Mr. Yin. As of right now, I'm leaning towards the former. He's formed a little clique around himself, namely BDH, Elo, and BWT that I find a little bit more lynch-worthy than the man himself.

Why Mr. Yin and not Mr. Yang?

Because I believe Sig to be Yang after MM's alignment reveal. You know, like I said here:

As I said earlier, my wanting to lynch sig was primarily based on my suspicion of him being a Crooked Cop. Finding out that MM, who was the only one who voted with me, was a Crooked Cop basically threw that into doubt for me. Now I come down on the side of sig being Mr. Yang, and I'm crossing my fingers that the Crooked Cops realize that the Yin/Yang team have a very good chance of beating them and that they can murder some civilians another night. Although we seem to be doing a better job at it than they are.

[Epignosis]

Since my opinion on INH is so important and a total mystery:

I've reversed my opinion on Lorab. Behold:

OK. Read up.

Thoughts on the names that have come up, because at this moments, I don't have any suspects of my own and I've been wrong about suspicions up until now, so I'm self doubting, and I didn't have time to read back through earlier posts. Also, it's less than 2 hours, and more names would only make it easier for mafia to manipulate the lynch, assuming (like Epi) many missing voters).

MM I could definitely see as bad. Especially after the vote for Sig, with no stated reason for doing so.

Russ I would be very surprised to find out was bad.

Wilgy, I'm unsure. I'm not very good at reading him. My gut tells me he is civ, but my gut could be totally wrong.

Sig, I really don't think is bad. I'm willing to revisit that at some point, but I don't see enough evidence that he's bad at this point to change my thinking.

So, I'm voting MM, because I think that's where I'm seeing the strongest reasoning at this point.

Are you voting MM simply because of "Bad Read" and "Agreed With INH"?

Is there anything else to this case?

INH tried to slow the MM fire down when it was picking up some momentum.

Here is INH trying to free our minds (with subjective stuff):

Sig could also be Shawn, so I'm really not liking that INH and MM are so blithe about voting him. The most likely options to a Sig lynch I see are A) He's Yang and nothing happens again, or B) He's Shawn and we just lost a major civvie.

My case for voting Sig really rests in Sig's posting history. He seems to be trying so hard to pass himself off as invulnerable that it seems hollow to me. There's a very good chance he's bluffing, and Timmer provided an example of a time in the past when he did the same thing.

This mindset of "Sig must be either A or B." is reductive and limiting.

I'd ask you to read his posts and maybe try to think outside of the box.

It isn't reductive. Explain what is outside the box. Who is sig, and why are you voting for him?

Sig is a person who I think has said and done some shady stuff this game. People are giving him a pass because he wasn't lynched on Day 1. I think doing so is incorrect and playing directly into his hand. I think he's purposefully bluffing, and attempting to get through this game scot-free. A Crooked Cop would have a much better chance of having access to a lynch stop item. Plus, there are the infamous secret descriptions in their roles, which could theoretically have something to do with lynches. Thinking that Sig has to either be Shawn or Yang because he survived a lynch is reductive. I'm trying to get people to free their minds, dude.

Here is INH defending Dom against subjective stuff:

I'm voting MM. I don't like how he voted Sig without a stated reason, especially considering that the most likely options are a wasted lynch or a big civ loss.

so you disagree with my case, and therefore anyone who agrees with my case must be scum?

wat?

Also, all that I've ever seen against Dom/MM is read based subjective stuff that, unless I'm missing something, never reverberated with me. Anyone wanna explain the case against him?

I have a new primary suspect.

I didn't read MM as bad. I didn't understand the case against him, and I asked for more information. I didn't like that people were using him agreeing with me as cause to suspect him, because I felt like that was a proxy jab at me and my ideas. Was I blinded by MM being literally the only other person who agreed with me in regards to lynching sig? Probably.

You point out that my case against sig which is based on my reads of him, is fairly subjective, while I criticize the MM case for being the same thing.

That's because I, to overuse a phrase, subjectively didn't read MM/Dom as bad. Therefore other people saying "His posts read bad" to me didn't really convince me, and I wanted to know if there were any solid facts behind it.

My gut was telling me that sig was bad and MM/Dom wasn't. I wanted to see if anyone had anything that could convince my brain.

Was I wrong? Of course. But that's the fault of me deciding to listen to my gut for once, and not anything to do with my alignment.

I included your response so that people can see what you said. Your response is not something I can prove or disprove, so I wasn't pressing the issue, but I'm dropping it either.

In passing, I saw this:

My top two candidates for lynchin' are Russtifinko and sig.

I still suspect Russti for reasons that I already outlined:

Strike 1: Coming back from the dead to enthusiastically and passionately lynch a civilian. Strike 2: His whole kerfuffle with Epi and general blame gamemanship. He also suspected Matt of being Scotty's teammate, but now is just barrelling against him, due to his Scotty vote. Strike 3: Him backtracking on his 1.0 opinions as noted by Scotty:

May I direct you to your Russell 1.0 Day 2 post:

This is a really compelling case. I agree with you and Sokoth that the Dom suspicion seems to have a lot of traction given how little substance it has, and I also think Scotty's not reading his role card is not suspicious, but you do a good job of showing that his behavior since is.

My only reservation right now is that I'm not sold on it being a save, because I still don't think that's the optimal play. However, as sig pointed out, opinions are divided on that stance, so it's entirely possible the baddie team disagrees with me on that and did try to save.

You seem pretty "sold" that it was a save now, in your new skin. Right out of the gate.

Plus, Matt's ultimate alignment reveal does him no favors. It seemed like a nice tidy little bandwagon was getting started towards him, and Russ jumped right on it.

Fast forward to today, and he's one of the people going after Wilgy's logic. Nothing I've seen from Wilgy has pinged me necessarily, and the number of pitchforks sharpening for him is something that I find disconcerting.

It seems like after the Scotty bandwagon rolled into the station, and the Matt one was derailed, people are piling onto the Wilgy Caboose.

As far as sig goes, I still think he's a Yin/Yang, and it's worth lynching him. But, it seems next to no one is willing to back me up on this one. Even Quin, who agrees with me on his alignment, is shaking in his boots with regards to actually casting a vote for him.

Here's how I'm going to go: If there is anybody else willing to go with me to seize our own destinies and try to lynch sig once and for all, that's who I'm voting for.

Otherwise, my vote belongs to Russti.

Has your opinion of Russtifinko changed since then?

[Epignosis]

When someone uses what information is available to him to figure things out, I would expect other civilians to appreciate the effort and the direction. You are indignant about it. Why?

You say sig is Yang, which isn't based on anything but his escape of the Day 1 lynch. I provided a logically sound analysis regarding sig.

So now anybody who doesn't think Sig is Shawn is obviously wrong? Here's your own undeniable, "logically sound" analysis.

The prevailing idea is that, because sig survived a lynched, he is either Shawn or Yang. The Crooked Cops want Yin and Yang out of the way because Y&Y are a direct threat to their enterprise (see MM). There have been not one, but two failed kill attempts. I believe sig was at least one of those. He wasn't killed.

Are there other possibilities? There always are. But I have to do the best with the information available, and that's the conclusion I have drawn.

So because sig is still in the game, he must equal Shawn? Really? It seems like an inference to me, one that's valid, I will admit, but also one that's easily disproven and not one that I'd be singing from the rooftops. It seems like you're constantly going out of your way to emphasize sig's civvie-ness, Epig. Not sure how I feel about that.

How is it easily disproved?

[timmer]

Epig seems like one of two things: Either a confuzzled, frazzled civ, or Mr. Yin. As of right now, I'm leaning towards the former. He's formed a little clique around himself, namely BDH, Elo, and BWT that I find a little bit more lynch-worthy than the man himself.

Why Mr. Yin and not Mr. Yang?

Because I believe Sig to be Yang after MM's alignment reveal. You know, like I said here:

As I said earlier, my wanting to lynch sig was primarily based on my suspicion of him being a Crooked Cop. Finding out that MM, who was the only one who voted with me, was a Crooked Cop basically threw that into doubt for me. Now I come down on the side of sig being Mr. Yang, and I'm crossing my fingers that the Crooked Cops realize that the Yin/Yang team have a very good chance of beating them and that they can murder some civilians another night. Although we seem to be doing a better job at it than they are.

Oh yes, this does fit with your previous thougts, sorry, trying to work and play is messing my head up.

[insertnamehere]

When someone uses what information is available to him to figure things out, I would expect other civilians to appreciate the effort and the direction. You are indignant about it. Why?

You say sig is Yang, which isn't based on anything but his escape of the Day 1 lynch. I provided a logically sound analysis regarding sig.

So now anybody who doesn't think Sig is Shawn is obviously wrong? Here's your own undeniable, "logically sound" analysis.

The prevailing idea is that, because sig survived a lynched, he is either Shawn or Yang. The Crooked Cops want Yin and Yang out of the way because Y&Y are a direct threat to their enterprise (see MM). There have been not one, but two failed kill attempts. I believe sig was at least one of those. He wasn't killed.

Are there other possibilities? There always are. But I have to do the best with the information available, and that's the conclusion I have drawn.

So because sig is still in the game, he must equal Shawn? Really? It seems like an inference to me, one that's valid, I will admit, but also one that's easily disproven and not one that I'd be singing from the rooftops. It seems like you're constantly going out of your way to emphasize sig's civvie-ness, Epig. Not sure how I feel about that.

How is it easily disproved?

You base your entire defense around him not being NK'd, which seems like very circumstantial evidence, as you admit yourself: "Are there other possibilities? There always are."

Think of it like this: Two men are looking this Jackson Pollack painting.



One man insists that it's a deft commentary on intersectionality, and the problems People of Color face on a regular basis.

The other man thinks it's about trains.

Both interpretations are equally valid due to the lack of any real information, but the trouble occurs when the Train dude starts insisting his way of viewing the piece is objectively correct, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a dum-dum.

You have an interpretation of sig's alignment based on inferences and assumptions. I respect it as a valid viewpoint, although not one that I agree with due to Sig's posts contantly pinging me to the point of exasperation, but sure.

My problem is when you insist that your interpretation is "the most logically sound" and anyone who disagrees is being the equivalent of an anti-vaxxer. You think sig's posts are good-reading, and you can imagine a valid scenario where he's civ? Fine. I can do the same in the other direction. But don't act like your case is as provably true as 1+1=2, when your assumptions could be easily disproven at any point.

[BigDamnHero]

If my trust in Epi has been misplaced in this game, then I am well and truly BONED because I'm fairly certain he has deduced my identity. That being said, I do believe I may have been one of the ?????? failed NK attempts. I received no notification/confirmation that I was , but if so, I have NO IDEA how I would have survived it.

[BigDamnHero]

@BDH, Elo, and BWT, name one person you suspect that Epignosis didn't influence you towards.

BWT

I would go with BWT too...not because Of Eloh saying it, but because earlier this day phase I brought up concerns I had with him.

[insertnamehere]

If my trust in Epi has been misplaced in this game, then I am well and truly BONED because I'm fairly certain he has deduced my identity. That being said, I do believe I may have been one of the ?????? failed NK attempts. I received no notification/confirmation that I was , but if so, I have NO IDEA how I would have survived it.

If you believe you were one of the failed NK attempts, but you have no special knowledge that you were, nor a role that gives you any protections, why do you believe that?

[Epignosis]

When someone uses what information is available to him to figure things out, I would expect other civilians to appreciate the effort and the direction. You are indignant about it. Why?

You say sig is Yang, which isn't based on anything but his escape of the Day 1 lynch. I provided a logically sound analysis regarding sig.

So now anybody who doesn't think Sig is Shawn is obviously wrong? Here's your own undeniable, "logically sound" analysis.

The prevailing idea is that, because sig survived a lynched, he is either Shawn or Yang. The Crooked Cops want Yin and Yang out of the way because Y&Y are a direct threat to their enterprise (see MM). There have been not one, but two failed kill attempts. I believe sig was at least one of those. He wasn't killed.

Are there other possibilities? There always are. But I have to do the best with the information available, and that's the conclusion I have drawn.

So because sig is still in the game, he must equal Shawn? Really? It seems like an inference to me, one that's valid, I will admit, but also one that's easily disproven and not one that I'd be singing from the rooftops. It seems like you're constantly going out of your way to emphasize sig's civvie-ness, Epig. Not sure how I feel about that.

How is it easily disproved?

You base your entire defense around him not being NK'd, which seems like very circumstantial evidence, as you admit yourself: "Are there other possibilities? There always are."

Think of it like this: Two men are looking this Jackson Pollack painting.



One man insists that it's a deft commentary on intersectionality, and the problems People of Color face on a regular basis.

The other man thinks it's about trains.

Both interpretations are equally valid due to the lack of any real information, but the trouble occurs when the Train dude starts insisting his way of viewing the piece is objectively correct, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a dum-dum.

You have an interpretation of sig's alignment based on inferences and assumptions. I respect it as a valid viewpoint, although not one that I agree with due to Sig's posts contantly pinging me to the point of exasperation, but sure.

My problem is when you insist that your interpretation is "the most logically sound" and anyone who disagrees is being the equivalent of an anti-vaxxer. You think sig's posts are good-reading, and you can imagine a valid scenario where he's civ? Fine. I can do the same in the other direction. But don't act like your case is as provably true as 1+1=2, when your assumptions could be easily disproven at any point.

There's no such thing as a "most logically sound," and I never said my perspective was the most logically sound one. Something is either sound or it is not.

Spoiler: show

Although shame on me: The term I should have used was "valid," not sound, since I do not know if my premises are correct. Kudos to you for using the correct wording on that front.

I never said my perspective was objective and I never called anyone a "dum-dum" for disagreeing with it.

You didn't answer my question though: How is sig being Shawn easily disproved?

Also, my interpretation of most of Jackson Pollock's work is the same: That he was a lazy painter.

[BigDamnHero]

I'm not questioning your gift exchange. Hell, I gifted you an item last night (this isn't breaking rules afaik) so if anyone wants an item, it's me, should I still be alive.

Rabbit had Multiple items in his possession when I inherited the role. None of them benefited me so I gifted them our to who I thought were civs. Hope y'all use it to your advantage.

And what about Elo strikes you as a certain civ role? Do you think she's Shawn?

This makes me think we should bring a lynch against Scotty to a SCREECHING hault...there's SOOOOO much truth in here it's not even funny. The reason I know this FOR A FACT is because I gifted rabbit something before Scotty took over. Last night, I got that EXACT item sent back to me...what possible reason would a baddie have to send out an item to someone rather than give it or hoard it amongst his baddie teammates? Even more, what reaason would he then have to openly admit to having gifted it not knowing where/who it came from to begin with...

@INH: because of the way one of those posts was written...it seemed quite pointed in my direction...

[Epignosis]

I'm not questioning your gift exchange. Hell, I gifted you an item last night (this isn't breaking rules afaik) so if anyone wants an item, it's me, should I still be alive.

Rabbit had Multiple items in his possession when I inherited the role. None of them benefited me so I gifted them our to who I thought were civs. Hope y'all use it to your advantage.

And what about Elo strikes you as a certain civ role? Do you think she's Shawn?

This makes me think we should bring a lynch against Scotty to a SCREECHING hault...there's SOOOOO much truth in here it's not even funny. The reason I know this FOR A FACT is because I gifted rabbit something before Scotty took over. Last night, I got that EXACT item sent back to me...what possible reason would a baddie have to send out an item to someone rather than give it or hoard it amongst his baddie teammates? Even more, what reaason would he then have to openly admit to having gifted it not knowing where/who it came from to begin with...

@INH: because of the way one of those posts was written...it seemed quite pointed in my direction...

[BigDamnHero]

@SCotty: That last question about me thinking Eloh is a certain role comes down to process of elimination. I feel she is civ and so there are only a few civ roles left. No, I don't think she's Shawn. But I know who I am (duh), and I believe I may know who Epi is, which leaves only a couple that Eloh could potentially be. Now granted, if even one assumption is wrong, the whole philosophy falls like a house of cards, but that's the game.

I'm leaning towards voting either BWT or timmer today, tbqh...

[insertnamehere]

Has your opinion of Russtifinko changed since then?

Yes, as you probably already knew when you asked this question.

This was right after the Wilgy lynch when I was frustrated with the continued lynch trains against slightly controversial easy targets like Matt, Wilgy and Scotty, and thought that Russ was part of the problem. Since then, he's made much more sense to me and has repeatedly made posts that leave me nodding my head.

Sort of like a reverse you.

So to recap, I found him bad when he said things that didn't make much sense to me and I didn't agree with, and I began to reverse that opinion when his posts made a whole lot of sense to me, and I agreed with most of them.

Am I not allowed to change my opinion without posting in big flashing red letters "GEE WILIKERS RUSSTIFINKO, I HEREBY REVERSE MY INITIAL UNEASINESS ABOUT YOU AND REGRET MY WORDS AND DEEDS"

I hate that people changing their opinions on things as they both learn more about them and react to other events, is seen as negative "flip-flopping" and not as people making informed decisions without wearing tunnel vision blinders.

[Scotty]

If my trust in Epi has been misplaced in this game, then I am well and truly BONED because I'm fairly certain he has deduced my identity. That being said, I do believe I may have been one of the ?????? failed NK attempts. I received no notification/confirmation that I was , but if so, I have NO IDEA how I would have survived it.

I don't understand your relationship with Epi but both of you seem to have a little secret and I hate not knowing secrets.

My aunt is named Chatty Kathy for two reasons: her name is Kathy, and she loves to talk. LOVES it. Which is great when I need to know how many cousins I have this year, and not great when the discussion focuses on her girlfriends' menstrual cycle syncing.

I don't know why I brought that up.

[insertnamehere]

Epig seems like one of two things: Either a confuzzled, frazzled civ, or Mr. Yin. As of right now, I'm leaning towards the former. He's formed a little clique around himself, namely BDH, Elo, and BWT that I find a little bit more lynch-worthy than the man himself.

Why Mr. Yin and not Mr. Yang?

Because I believe Sig to be Yang after MM's alignment reveal. You know, like I said here:

As I said earlier, my wanting to lynch sig was primarily based on my suspicion of him being a Crooked Cop. Finding out that MM, who was the only one who voted with me, was a Crooked Cop basically threw that into doubt for me. Now I come down on the side of sig being Mr. Yang, and I'm crossing my fingers that the Crooked Cops realize that the Yin/Yang team have a very good chance of beating them and that they can murder some civilians another night. Although we seem to be doing a better job at it than they are.

Oh yes, this does fit with your previous thougts, sorry, trying to work and play is messing my head up.

Sorry that I momentarily forgot to include you among the people I suspected, that was a brain-fart on my part.

So, for the folks watching back home, I'd like to update my "Timmer-Suspicion-Status" with a nice big "STILL SUSPECTS TIMMER AND WOULD BE OPEN TO VOTING FOR HIM DUE TO REASONS PREVIOUSLY STATED"

[BigDamnHero]

Also...ro all y'all who are playing mafia on your phones with your outrageously long posts: you are SICK IN THE FRIGGIN' HEAD!!!!!! My wife used to do this from a blackberry when she first began and I even called HER crazy. There's enthusiasm, dedication and enjoyment, but posting some of these long diatribes on an itty bitty screen and even ittier bittier keypad is like crack-addict mafia playing right there, yo!

@INH: I'm old-school mafia, so the fact the we have the ability to change our VOTES has just wrinkled my brains this entire game. I mean, what bigger form of fli-flopping is there than to commit to one verdict and then literally change it when the tides turn or a more prevailing wind blows...

[insertnamehere]

@INH: because of the way one of those posts was written...it seemed quite pointed in my direction...

What do you mean? Are you referring to one of Daisy's Host Posts, or one of MM's, or what?

[insertnamehere]

Also...ro all y'all who are playing mafia on your phones with your outrageously long posts: you are SICK IN THE FRIGGIN' HEAD!!!!!! My wife used to do this from a blackberry when she first began and I even called HER crazy. There's enthusiasm, dedication and enjoyment, but posting some of these long diatribes on an itty bitty screen and even ittier bittier keypad is like crack-addict mafia playing right there, yo!

@INH: I'm old-school mafia, so the fact the we have the ability to change our VOTES has just wrinkled my brains this entire game. I mean, what bigger form of fli-flopping is there than to commit to one verdict and then literally change it when the tides turn or a more prevailing wind blows...

So changing your mind when presented with new valid information = evil scummy flip flopping to you?

[timmer]

I hate that people changing their opinions on things as they both learn more about them and react to other events, is seen as negative "flip-flopping" and not as people making informed decisions without wearing tunnel vision blinders.

It's exactly what people want to lynch me for.

[timmer]

For the moment, I'm going to put my vote on Elohcin. Of the people with votes, the thoguhts against her make the most sense to me. Note, of course, that I'll move my vote to survive if I must, but she's the best target imo.

[Scotty]

@SCotty: That last question about me thinking Eloh is a certain role comes down to process of elimination. I feel she is civ and so there are only a few civ roles left. No, I don't think she's Shawn. But I know who I am (duh), and I believe I may know who Epi is, which leaves only a couple that Eloh could potentially be. Now granted, if even one assumption is wrong, the whole philosophy falls like a house of cards, but that's the game.

I'm leaning towards voting either BWT or timmer today, tbqh...

Interesting. I have no idea what role anyone is, but if you say so..

Id still look at a timmer vote today. Will look at BWT as well- I haven't looked into him at all, since his tone didn't bother me as much when I was dead.
Though at this point, unless some gentlefellows take their hands off me (those damn dirty apes) I'll probably be saving myself.

Linki @timmer: nah, I was more after you because of your voting pattern and soft defending of Dom

[Scotty]

Also...ro all y'all who are playing mafia on your phones with your outrageously long posts: you are SICK IN THE FRIGGIN' HEAD!!!!!! My wife used to do this from a blackberry when she first began and I even called HER crazy. There's enthusiasm, dedication and enjoyment, but posting some of these long diatribes on an itty bitty screen and even ittier bittier keypad is like crack-addict mafia playing right there, yo!

@INH: I'm old-school mafia, so the fact the we have the ability to change our VOTES has just wrinkled my brains this entire game. I mean, what bigger form of fli-flopping is there than to commit to one verdict and then literally change it when the tides turn or a more prevailing wind blows...

it sucks. My gf just sits there and shooting daggers at the back of my head when I do it, since I type with my fat thumbs and most of my typing is going back to correct the shitty autocorrect.

[timmer]

Scotty, not referring to you as much as I am Russ:

It's one thing to chance your mind. It's another to do complete 180s on two different players just because Epi said so, and supplementing it with SUUUUUPER weak reasoning. You threw two of your top reads in the garbage instantaneously! This is meant as a compliment - I expect way better from civ timmer.

When part of my change of heart comes from thinking that someone is hinting at being a certain role, I am not ever going to broadcast that and give them away. But when those thoughts suddenly seem less likely, i go back to my thoughts... it's cool, I've been here before, half of the players in this game are non-civs at this point, I don't expect everyone to listen to this. but yes, changing my mind is a BIG part of Russ' case against me.

[Epignosis]

Also...ro all y'all who are playing mafia on your phones with your outrageously long posts: you are SICK IN THE FRIGGIN' HEAD!!!!!! My wife used to do this from a blackberry when she first began and I even called HER crazy. There's enthusiasm, dedication and enjoyment, but posting some of these long diatribes on an itty bitty screen and even ittier bittier keypad is like crack-addict mafia playing right there, yo!

@INH: I'm old-school mafia, so the fact the we have the ability to change our VOTES has just wrinkled my brains this entire game. I mean, what bigger form of fli-flopping is there than to commit to one verdict and then literally change it when the tides turn or a more prevailing wind blows...

it sucks. My gf just sits there and shooting daggers at the back of my head when I do it, since I type with my fat thumbs and most of my typing is going back to correct the shitty autocorrect.

Is that because she's in the backseat?

[insertnamehere]

There's no such thing as a "most logically sound," and I never said my perspective was the most logically sound one. Something is either sound or it is not.

I know, and I was using some slight sarcasm to respond to you implying that Scotty's position on Sig wasn't logically sound, while yours was.

Although shame on me: The term I should have used was "valid," not sound, since I do not know if my premises are correct. Kudos to you for using the correct wording on that front.

ty

I never said my perspective was objective and I never called anyone a "dum-dum" for disagreeing with it.

once again, me sarcastically referring to how you implied Scotty viewing Sig as Yang was based on less than your view of sig. plus the dum-dum thing was a part of my deep allegory.

You didn't answer my question though: How is sig being Shawn easily disproved?

Maybe I used some improper language too, Epi. I didn't mean that I had some huge fact that I could pull out and blow you away with, I meant that you were making a lot of debatable inferences which could be easily disproved in the future. Sorry if my wording wasn't clear.

Also, my interpretation of most of Jackson Pollock's work is the same: That he was a lazy painter.

votes Epig

that last bit was sarcasm by the way

[timmer]

I've made every effort to participate and to judge the cases against players as best I can. There's nothing more i can say about it. My vote the other day is right there, I didn't try to hide it or fudge anything, I explained it and went with what I thought seemed right.

If you've ever been a civ and realized after a lynch that your vote was going to VERY quickly get exploited because of how bad it looks, you know where I'm at. And if you've been there, I ask that you take a minute to reevaluate and think about the people sliding quietly through this day while we all rip each other apart.

[BigDamnHero]

If my trust in Epi has been misplaced in this game, then I am well and truly BONED because I'm fairly certain he has deduced my identity. That being said, I do believe I may have been one of the ?????? failed NK attempts. I received no notification/confirmation that I was , but if so, I have NO IDEA how I would have survived it.

I don't understand your relationship with Epi but both of you seem to have a little secret and I hate not knowing secrets.

My aunt is named Chatty Kathy for two reasons: her name is Kathy, and she loves to talk. LOVES it. Which is great when I need to know how many cousins I have this year, and not great when the discussion focuses on her girlfriends' menstrual cycle syncing.

I don't know why I brought that up.

as for part 2 of that...eeewwww...

As for our "relationship," for me it's about respect. I know Epi is a seasoned veteran with umpteen games under his belt....look at the badges fer cripe's sake...pertaining to this game however, he just seems civ to me. As I stated earlier, I believe he's pinpointed me and aside from one unconfirmed attempt on me (possibly) I haven't suffered any ill-effects. As a semi-seasoned (albeit retired) mafia player myself, I would think he would want me eliminated ASAP.

ow that being said, I've been in a game before with someone I cosider of equal ilk/calibre to Epi (*coughLONGCONcough*) who I played a Star Wars mafia game with. LC and I were on a Jedi team together with I think 3 other people. Unbeknownst to all of us, he had a secret aspect to his role, namely if he SLAUGHTERED the rest of us, he would gain immense powers! Well guess what friggin' happened...Hence my recent questioning/reluctance about fully trusting Epi. I still do, but I'll always be wary of thatturning of the tide that I just don't see coming until it's too late. Epi I think is one of the few players who culd pull something like that off...

@INH: I don't go for "flip-flopping" theories really...especially if it's within the same day. Over the longer course of the game, sure...it has relevance.

[Epignosis]

As for our "relationship," for me it's about respect. I know Epi is a seasoned veteran with umpteen games under his belt....look at the badges fer cripe's sake...

Most of them are Host banners.

[Epignosis]

There's no such thing as a "most logically sound," and I never said my perspective was the most logically sound one. Something is either sound or it is not.

I know, and I was using some slight sarcasm to respond to you implying that Scotty's position on Sig wasn't logically sound, while yours was.

Although shame on me: The term I should have used was "valid," not sound, since I do not know if my premises are correct. Kudos to you for using the correct wording on that front.

ty

I never said my perspective was objective and I never called anyone a "dum-dum" for disagreeing with it.

once again, me sarcastically referring to how you implied Scotty viewing Sig as Yang was based on less than your view of sig. plus the dum-dum thing was a part of my deep allegory.

You didn't answer my question though: How is sig being Shawn easily disproved?

Maybe I used some improper language too, Epi. I didn't mean that I had some huge fact that I could pull out and blow you away with, I meant that you were making a lot of debatable inferences which could be easily disproved in the future. Sorry if my wording wasn't clear.

Also, my interpretation of most of Jackson Pollock's work is the same: That he was a lazy painter.

votes Epig

that last bit was sarcasm by the way

All right. I understand that.

Two questions for you then.

First, if sig is Yang, why hasn't he been killed? The Crooked Cops have had two or three cracks at it. How do you interpret his survival?

Second, if you believe sig is Yang, why try to get him lynched? What purpose would that serve?

[BigDamnHero]

Now some of you may be wondering where my seemingly sudden suspicion of BWT came from...while I don't have any direct info to provide (nor would I be able to even if I had per violation of the rules set forth by the host), I can say that I have valid reason to raise some caution flags about him. In and of itself, this means nothing, and the reasons I have COULD be interpreted in a couple different fashions (good for the civs, possibly helpful to the civs or really, REALLY bad for the civs). What it comes down to really is do you have trust in ME. I'm a civ and believe I have conducted myself in such a manner throughout this game, or at the very least HOPE I have. I'm not asking you to follow me blindly (or at all even), but IF you believe I have the best interests of civ-nation at heart, then help me suss-out my concerns about BWT...an extra-set of fresh eyes and all that...

@Epi: Hosting is SOOOO much harder than playing...

[timmer]

Now some of you may be wondering where my seemingly sudden suspicion of BWT came from...while I don't have any direct info to provide (nor would I be able to even if I had per violation of the rules set forth by the host), I can say that I have valid reason to raise some caution flags about him. In and of itself, this means nothing, and the reasons I have COULD be interpreted in a couple different fashions (good for the civs, possibly helpful to the civs or really, REALLY bad for the civs). What it comes down to really is do you have trust in ME. I'm a civ and believe I have conducted myself in such a manner throughout this game, or at the very least HOPE I have. I'm not asking you to follow me blindly (or at all even), but IF you believe I have the best interests of civ-nation at heart, then help me suss-out my concerns about BWT...an extra-set of fresh eyes and all that...

@Epi: Hosting is SOOOO much harder than playing...

i was just looking over BWT, actually. He effectively closed the door on the Wilgy lynch, putting MM two back from the lynch lead right near the end. However, he HAD been pretty vocal about Wilgy all game. Also of note, if BWT were bad, and had decided Sig was likely Yang, it would make sense not to bother voting for him as an alternate.

In short, BWT certainly seemed to put the icing on the Wilgy cake, but it was consistent enough with his posts that I couldn't say it made a case at this time.

[timmer]

@BDH, I've felt pretty good vibes from you all game, so I'll listen if you want to flesh something out re: BWT. But I'd need something more than just you asking me to trust you.

[Epignosis]

Now some of you may be wondering where my seemingly sudden suspicion of BWT came from...while I don't have any direct info to provide (nor would I be able to even if I had per violation of the rules set forth by the host), I can say that I have valid reason to raise some caution flags about him. In and of itself, this means nothing, and the reasons I have COULD be interpreted in a couple different fashions (good for the civs, possibly helpful to the civs or really, REALLY bad for the civs). What it comes down to really is do you have trust in ME. I'm a civ and believe I have conducted myself in such a manner throughout this game, or at the very least HOPE I have. I'm not asking you to follow me blindly (or at all even), but IF you believe I have the best interests of civ-nation at heart, then help me suss-out my concerns about BWT...an extra-set of fresh eyes and all that...

@Epi: Hosting is SOOOO much harder than playing...

If you want to go in that direction, I will support you. I went through (half of) bwt and gave my opinion, but if you feel differently, I'm willing to back you up.

Plus it'd be a relief for someone else to get shit if you're wrong.

[Scotty]

Also...ro all y'all who are playing mafia on your phones with your outrageously long posts: you are SICK IN THE FRIGGIN' HEAD!!!!!! My wife used to do this from a blackberry when she first began and I even called HER crazy. There's enthusiasm, dedication and enjoyment, but posting some of these long diatribes on an itty bitty screen and even ittier bittier keypad is like crack-addict mafia playing right there, yo!

@INH: I'm old-school mafia, so the fact the we have the ability to change our VOTES has just wrinkled my brains this entire game. I mean, what bigger form of fli-flopping is there than to commit to one verdict and then literally change it when the tides turn or a more prevailing wind blows...

it sucks. My gf just sits there and shooting daggers at the back of my head when I do it, since I type with my fat thumbs and most of my typing is going back to correct the shitty autocorrect.

Is that because she's in the backseat?

nah, she's riding shotgun and I'm currently looking to my left.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

message from your MoD: don't Mafia and drive.

[BigDamnHero]

If you want to go in that direction, I will support you. I went through (half of) bwt and gave my opinion, but if you feel differently, I'm willing to back you up.

Plus it'd be a relief for someone else to get shit if you're wrong.

FUck it...I'm just throwin' it out there: I have a STRONG indication that BWT is a role with secrets attached to him...it's the ONLY explaination I can come up with. That leaves me to believe thag if he's not civ, then he's a crooked cop or Despereaux (who may or may not be able to assist the civs). The problem is all the damn secrets and we don't know what we don't know...

[Epignosis]

Vote your conscience man. birdwithteeth had no trouble voting Scotty, and he seemed like he wasn't changing his mind.

[birdwithteeth11]

[quote="insertnamehere"

@BDH, Elo, and BWT, name one person you suspect that Epignosis didn't influence you towards.[/quote]

Timmer. His back-and-forth-ness still has him as one of my top suspects, but some of his contributions today have knocked him down a place or two.

[birdwithteeth11]

I didn't believe you're "I'd given up, so please lynch me" post at first because I thought it was an appeal to emotion. But couple it with this...

I'm not questioning your gift exchange. Hell, I gifted you an item last night (this isn't breaking rules afaik) so if anyone wants an item, it's me, should I still be alive.

Rabbit had Multiple items in his possession when I inherited the role. None of them benefited me so I gifted them our to who I thought were civs. Hope y'all use it to your advantage.

And what about Elo strikes you as a certain civ role? Do you think she's Shawn?

Am I really making the right decision keeping my vote on you?

[birdwithteeth11]

I vote more people follow Epi and vote me. In fact, I'll be the first. One of the longest weeks of my life, and I don't have energy to try to save this game. So lynch me, and please, for the love of God, do 2 things when I die:

1) Lynch timmer. THat way we'll have done at least one thing right this game.
2) Dethrone Epi as King of the Thread. I mean, it was a pretty inactive game, and someone had to fill the void, so in that respect Epi is helping. But he's wrong, and the vast majority of the thread is treating his word like gold. It lets baddies skate by when 2/3 of voters say "Oh sure, whatever Epi said. That'll be good."

Well if you really are civ, then wouldn't you at least try to find a replacement?

Is there anyone else you think would be worthwhile for us to vote for today? I have my own top suspicions, but given how pisspoor most of the votes have gone so far, I'm trying to keep an open mind about this.

And I do agree with the last statement to an extent. Especially if we dealt with early inactive baddies. Because if we have players who are simply following his lead, then it gives the baddies an avenue to follow for sure.

I just happen to agree with him a lot this game is all. Which given our track record so far may or may not be a good thing.

[birdwithteeth11]

Also, the fact that we still waiting on 3 more votes doesn't make me feel good about the end results of this lynch.

[Epignosis]

Keep reading.

[birdwithteeth11]

Now some of you may be wondering where my seemingly sudden suspicion of BWT came from...while I don't have any direct info to provide (nor would I be able to even if I had per violation of the rules set forth by the host), I can say that I have valid reason to raise some caution flags about him. In and of itself, this means nothing, and the reasons I have COULD be interpreted in a couple different fashions (good for the civs, possibly helpful to the civs or really, REALLY bad for the civs). What it comes down to really is do you have trust in ME. I'm a civ and believe I have conducted myself in such a manner throughout this game, or at the very least HOPE I have. I'm not asking you to follow me blindly (or at all even), but IF you believe I have the best interests of civ-nation at heart, then help me suss-out my concerns about BWT...an extra-set of fresh eyes and all that...

I'm really confused here. You don't have any evidence of it...but don't trust me and think I could be bad?

I know you said earlier you felt like you had no read on me whatsoever. What changed that?