Monkey Island [ENDGAME]

[Tangrowth]

Epi, what do you make of MPs reaction? Or are you not willing to say?

MP gets angry and storms off often when he gets suspected for any reason he feels is stupid, which doesn't mean anything to me. I never know when it's an act.

He says he thinks I'm good, but everything he says about my contributions regarding him indicates that he thinks they are contrived. That I don't understand.

On the one hand, he seems to think I'm just doing this to get a reaction out of him, but if he knows this, then why be pissed and angry and say I'm taking it too far? How far is too far? On the other hand, if I genuinely suspect him, then he should know I'm not going to back down because he calls the observation I raised a waste of his time, bullshit, etc.

Lol, now this is true. Sorry, I can't help it.

Regarding your second point, I don't really know anymore. I'm not necessarily willing to double down on the interpretation that you are to any degree manufacturing your case but it's becoming increasingly clear to me that, if you are town, you sincerely believe that you've potentially uncovered something meaningful. I know that it isn't, and I suppose that's what is frustrating to me because I feel like this time could be better spent on something else, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless to you all who have to make some sort of assessment regarding my alignment. Sometimes it's difficult for me to keep that in perspective when I'm under the line of fire.

Regarding your third point, do you not remember bean dip? Lol. That was too far. I felt like you were doing the same thing to me here. I no longer believe that to be true, having calmed down and walked away from the situation and seen your subsequent posts. It appears to me you genuinely believe in your case.

You shouldn't back down if you genuinely believe in something.

[Snow Dog]

I swear to dog I'm This close to changing my autocorrect so every time I post dog it's sig instead

I GIVE UP GOODNIGHT

Now you are just copying me.

[Tangrowth]

Lol LC have you not played with me before? I used to make gigantic posts all the time and sometimes still do. If you don't like the fact that I posted many small times instead one gigantic one I don't know what to tell you, it's a lot of content either way and over the years I've had people complain about both and not read my posts. I don't need a lecture on that. How about you talk about some of the content within them instead?

Buddying? That's weaksauce my friend. Show me the mafia motivation behind my posts.

As I said, "either way works". My point was that I don't want to see any alignment attached to large or small post counts, because they can be artificially inflated.

You call my Day 1 vote "weaksauce" as though Day 1 votes are usually supersolid. I don't have time to explain the obvious Mafia motivation behind buddying.

I don't really buy into buddying as a tell; I have the tendency to be friendly as both alignments and I get frustrated by "buddying" or "pocketing" accusations often enough where I never use them as town.

QFT

Yeah, that's one opinion. My experience tells me differently.

Well, I suppose that's fair. My apologies, LC, if you feel like I haven't been giving your accusations of me fair responses. I felt very much like the victim (whether intended or not) yesterday; I don't feel that way anymore.

[Tangrowth]

I swear to dog I'm This close to changing my autocorrect so every time I post dog it's sig instead

I GIVE UP GOODNIGHT

Now you are just copying me.

Damn, you got me! It's my new mafia strategy!

Sorry, I've decided some time ago to ditch the gigantic MP catch up posts and to make posts in real time as I catch up. I feel it better gives players a chance to feel out my responses as if I was responding in real time, at least as much as it can be simulated when I actually am not catching up in real time, and someone also criticized my gigantic catch up posts to be hard to read and difficult to respond to, so that's another reason.

[Tangrowth]

Lol LC have you not played with me before? I used to make gigantic posts all the time and sometimes still do. If you don't like the fact that I posted many small times instead one gigantic one I don't know what to tell you, it's a lot of content either way and over the years I've had people complain about both and not read my posts. I don't need a lecture on that. How about you talk about some of the content within them instead?

Buddying? That's weaksauce my friend. Show me the mafia motivation behind my posts.

As I said, "either way works". My point was that I don't want to see any alignment attached to large or small post counts, because they can be artificially inflated.

You call my Day 1 vote "weaksauce" as though Day 1 votes are usually supersolid. I don't have time to explain the obvious Mafia motivation behind buddying.

Do you feel like anyone so far has been tying anyone's alignment to large or small post counts?

Not yet. Not in this game.

I wasn't asking for any general mafia motivation for buddying, even though I think that motivation is largely unconvincing. I'm asking what specifically you've seen in my behavior that displays a mafia motivation.

An odd question. I don't think it's a reasonable one. I have seen buddying being a Mafia tell - an unforeseen flaw in a baddie's otherwise innocent-seeming game. It's pedantic to require me to find a meta-behaviour to validate my suspicion of your behaviour. Are there some forms I have to fill out in triplicate before accusing you now? If I gave you an answer regarding which behaviour indicates a Mafia motivation behind your buddying behaviour, would you require me to further validate that with a third behaviour pattern?

Fuck it, I'll answer it without being contrary as well. The Mafia motivation that is displayed by your excessive buddying is the motivation make Civs feel comfortable with you, like "Me and MP07 are on the same page, I'm Civ so he's feeling Civ to me, because, though on the outside, different faces, but on the inside, same-same. Same-same." You feel me?

I accidentally posted that previous post when I was supposed to copy-paste it below this one, and move on with a catchup, accumulating more posts. Instead I submitted it, so I'll just lay this one down now and start fresh.

LC, thanks for this response. Let me explain my perspective because I feel like we're on different pages here. I just cannot respond to your interpretation of my behavior (you perceive my behavior as buddying and a potential scum tell, but I know that isn't true in this game) if you don't give me an opportunity to, and thus we cannot engage in a conversation in a manner in which you can begin to understand where I'm coming from and vice versa, so that's why I asked for you to give me a specific example (or examples) of mafia motivation in my behavior. That way maybe I could begin to understand where your mindset is coming from so that not only can you hopefully continue to engage me to assess whether your interpretation is correct (I am being manipulative or fake) but also I can attempt to get a feel for whether you are being sincere or not as well.

It has worked to a degree at least from my end; I currently feel your pursuit of suspicion is honest.

[Epignosis]

Mad Max is a perfect example of a civ MP making three-tiered lists.

It's either an example or it isn't. The word "perfect" is unnecessary in this sentence. Quin is bad.

Quite right. I don't like commenting on ongoing games, so I didn't even bother to look at that one.

[Quin]

Mad Max is a perfect example of a civ MP making three-tiered lists.

It's either an example or it isn't. The word "perfect" is unnecessary in this sentence. Quin is bad.

Quite right. I don't like commenting on ongoing games, so I didn't even bother to look at that one.

'Perfect' is a perfect word to use in that sentence, because it counters the content of your case... perfectly.

[Tangrowth]

To elaborate on the whole buddying thing, LC, your perception of me as "buddying" is an accusation that gets hurled my way increasingly frequently because I've found that the way I best operate as town is to try to engage players in the thread to determine whether they are good or bad, and unfortunately I am not a very perceptive player when it comes to determining whether someone is lying to my face behind a computer screen or not, so it sometimes takes a lot of talking for me to get to any sort of semi-confident assessment. Further, I've found over the years that I work horribly as a unit of town when I work solo. My instincts are awful and I get emotionally manipulated. I function much better as a part of town when I can bounce my thoughts off of other players in the thread in real time and constantly get critical feedback of the links I'm attempting to establish. I get excited when I find another active member of town to play the game with not only for because it improves my play but because it's more fun. No member of the town wants to feel alone, yet over half of the game consists of town-aligned players. It also makes it more difficult for mafia to hide if there is a coalition of soundly active town players closing in on them. Of course, one always has to continually assess to make sure one of these active town participants isn't a mafia in disguise, but that's a given.

In addition, I have been trying to have more fun with these games lately especially in the early stages in which I have had the unfortunate tendency to get stressed out and bothered by accusations, so in Mad Max I tried to develop a more goofy / carefree approach to start the game and then gradually warm into my serious analytic shoes. I inevitably ended up getting pushed into those shoes more quickly than I wanted in that game and here. My attempts at "buddying" wherein I was talking to Nacho, Mac, etc. about being my town buddy and such I thought are so obviously light-hearted that for them to be a mafia strategy to get players on my side is a ridiculous assertion due to their high transparency. All the more reason I wanted to know which post(s) specifically you perceived to have mafia motivation as buddying.

I suppose I'm just saying that accusing me of "buddying" is like accusing of JJJ for being analytical. It's a hallmark of my playstyle.

[Tangrowth]

YES MAD MAX. EXACTLY. Thank you, Quin. Lol. I didn't think to throw that in here either due to being ongoing (but now it's over and fair game).

I feel more comfortable throwing out rainbow lists as town earlier these days, but I don't feel comfortable with multiple tiers until I have compelling reason to do so, and there was not enough content in this thread by which to judge players to that level of specificity at that point in time. I still largely feel that is the case now, though I am starting to sort out a few ranked folks in my mind (Nacho, Epi, LC, and Snow Dog as potential moderate towns instead of slight, for example). It isn't fully sorted yet though. I need more posts from those yellow people.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

i don't understand this motel room vote. He's has posted drunk most of the time and he didn't come back after a question. That's it! (better than nothing I suppose, and I don't know him anyway so....urgh)

Yeah it's definitely not winning "Case of the Year", but I don't think that makes it a bad vote. What about the MP vote entices you?

his Buddying up, his last minute motel vote that seemed to come from nowhere, and..I dunno....a feeling.

The motel vote didn't really come from anywhere from my perspective; I had been talking about it in thread for a while, he was townreading me, Golden vetted it, not like he had strong feelings elsewhere.

As for the buddying point, my rebuttal for that is mostly personal but it'd be a shame if he got lynched for making me feel.welcome!

It wasn't just you. He did it to others too.

If I'm mafia and "buddying" you all to try to gain your trust, then I sure am doing a real shitty job, aren't I?

It would have worked too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

If you hadn't been called out on it, then it would have been a top-quality job. It just so happens that I'm very sensitive to it.

It wasn't an analysis. It was an observation.

I find your observation somewhat compelling.

Question - is it one you just researched now, or have you been sitting on it waiting for a time it applied?

What is compelling about it, even remotely? I don't get it. I cannot fathom anything even remotely compelling about it. I've already debunked it.

I disagree, I didn't find that your rebuttal functioned to slam-dunk a debunk. I felt your points were more useful as some factors to consider were Epi to move forward with a seriously in-depth MP-rainbow-list-analysis, like classifying the context more, or cross-referencing existing post-count or time from the game's start. Epi noticed a loose correlation between two elements: your alignment, and the number of colours in your rainbow lists. It doesn't take a lot of mental acrobatics to look at that evidence and think that just maybe, MP07's REAL (Civ) rainbow lists are more detailed due to a true and admirable attempt to really analyze every player honestly... and that MP07's FAKE (baddie) rainbow lists are broader-strokes analyses designed to advance his baddie agenda while doing something that MP usually does as Civ.

That makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm sure that the fact that I'm already accusing you of buddying works against you when I see a rainbow list that is so heavily Civ-weighted.

Seeing that I already had 1 vote from LC, that votes were likely to be missed, and knowing that both Epi and sig expressed suspicions of me, my vote was cast somewhat out of self-preservation. I also realize I haven't updated my rainbow formally but Soneji's response put my ease and given my lack of available time I had a bunch of null reads from which to choose to place my vote upon. Only Blooper and motel room had 2 votes, I know I had 1, so I chose between those options and even though I felt equally about MR and Blooper I percolated on Nacho's arguments and felt it the more compelling vote and subsequently I decided to go with motel room.

So would you say that you would like to put all responsibility on Nacho?

No, why would I ever say that? I take full responsibility for my vote. That goes without saying.

No, totally, you would never say that. That question was 99% 'limited time availability' curveball question to see your response. BUT, that other 1%, I have to be honest, is that voice in my head that sees your post like this: "I was exactly, perfectly equal in my opinion on whether motel or Blooper got lynched. Since I think my buddy Nacho is a Civ *point and wink in Nacho's direction in a friendly fashion*, I went along with his argument."

I guess my question didn't convey that, but I'd say that's the reason I felt compelled to just shine some light on your use of Nacho's opinions in your explanation.

I swear to dog I'm This close to changing my autocorrect so every time I post dog it's sig instead

This post is just blowing my mind.

Are there some forms I have to fill out in triplicate before accusing you now?

Yes. But trust me, no-one will tell you where to find them, and you will have to deliver them to a town in Wyoming by hand.

Fuck, forget it then. I'll just vote Metalmarsh.

* * * * *

I realize now that some of the above stuff is rehashing stuff that was discussed when I wasn't here, but I'll still post it. I'm sorry to see that you seem to be getting upset, MP, but I cannot let that affect my opinion because I have seen you fake it as a baddie. Imagine how much more upsetting it is for motel room.

LC, in response to this post, here are a couple of items:

Now I'm wondering what you consider in my post history to be a top quality buddying job, because I feel like if I was mafia right now I'd be blowing it big time, regardless of whether I got called out for it.

The buddying accusation is also a bit raw because Dom relentlessly hounded me for nearly the entirety of Mad Max and that was his initial accusation -- that I was buddying him by placing him as a slight town read on my Day 1 rainbow despite his relative lack of content and not having directly engaged. He was wrong about me.

Your question's intent makes more sense now, thanks. I hope my answers have been helpful in your determination of my alignment.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Re my opinion on MP

I have seen him be frustrated at accusations as both alignments.
I've seen him buddy people as both alignments.

I can recall specific instances of him burning me with each of them in the past when bad, but it's easy to let 'you have done that to me when bad before' sway your read to 'bad' when it's actually 'null'.

I also think that MP has been incredibly regularly on the table for lynching on day one/two recently, and I've seen a marked uptick in him getting frustrated at the accusations early rather than maintaining a rational calm. Again, I see this as null, because I've seen it as both alignments. And I don't really blame him - I have been through runs in the past where I'm in that spot where no matter what you do, people are immediately inspecting me and declaring me bad, and it can get very frustrating. Sometimes you just want a run of not being on defense to get your hunting straight.

All of those null things straight - here are things I've seen as genuinely potentially alignment-indicative from MP

1) His happiness to have the game going at a slow pace - town-aligned. I think he would be much more focussed on his meta upkeep if he was bad, but in this game I did not get the sense he cared about maintaining any appearance. This is also a major town tell with me, and I believe it's a pretty reliable one.

2) His focus on nacho in the early game - feeling out and interacting with a new player - town-aligned. I felt like MP was genuinely trying to get a good sense of who he is and what he is bringing to the table.

3) His inability to see epi's case as holding merit - slightly bad-leaning. I can understand the frustration, but I have more difficulty understanding why MP wouldn't recognise a legitimate meta case and respond to it as such (rather than a nonsense case). It may be based on a predisposition to assume epi's cases are not intended to hold merit but are just intended to see what responses come, which is in fact the tack MP took. It's also something epi is well known for doing. But that makes it a very easy 'rote' defense to any epi case.

Overall, I still see MP as town-aligned, and in particular point (1) is very persuasive to me.

As nearly always, Golden knows me better and can express it better than I can myself.

[Tangrowth]

sig, I've provided more reads on players than almost everyone else in the game. If you can't remember my content that's on you, not me.

I suspect sig for this. There's another post later on I'll get to eventually, but I could easily interpret this as a bad sig not even reading the thread, hence 'not remembering' a whole 17 (... )meaty posts in a row from MP.

I would say that if anyone suspecting me right now is mafia, it's most believable to be sig, but I'm a bit hesitant to pursue that train of thought aggressively for multiple reasons:

1) I have not yet had the opportunity to engage directly with sig and he has not yet seen these recent responses of mine, so perhaps he has not had enough information to come to a more informed assessment of me.

2) sig not thoroughly examining the thread, or even reading it, and then making gut-based interpretations of my behavior is just as compatible with a town sig that increasingly is becoming bothered with aspects of my behavior in the game as it is with a mafia sig that is trying to push me as mislynch because everyone on this site knows that I'm a relatively easy mislynch to push. Do you have reason to believe that it is more compatible with the latter explanation? I haven't seen anything compelling personally.

3) Although I do still firmly believe it is on sig that he does not recall my content, his accusation is still potentially legitimate if he believes I am a mafia member manufacturing my suspicions and trying to flood the thread with posts but my substance in those posts is lacking. Now the point I was raised in my quoted post above was that I was contributing more than nearly everyone else, and while that is likely unarguable, mulling over it I think I missed sig's point and that was that he believes, in comparison to his perception of what he believes town MP would be posting, my content is lacking. I did not adequately address that concern.

sig, let me know if you want to engage on any of this.

[Tangrowth]

This was a very weak reason I'm espacilly eyeing MP and the people who voted for Zebra.

I also find it odd WIlgy missed the vote, if MP does end up being mafia I'd like to look into lynching Wilgy.

Its day 1. What more convincing articles could you have for day 1?

And "the people who voted zebra" are...just me. Can I help you with your eyes?

Snow also voted for Zebra you don't seem to be reading clearly.

MP didn't mention his vote was self preservation when he did the voting though, that just came up after motel flipped. I'm really being pinged by MP right now.

I also really dislike this post from sig. I feel like the emphasis on this post is being put on the fact that 'MP didn't justify it as self-preservation beforehand' instead of 'I don't believe that MP voted out of self-preservation'. Why did you come to the conclusion you did, sig?

I do agree with your point here, however. sig should answer for this.

[Quin]

sig, I've provided more reads on players than almost everyone else in the game. If you can't remember my content that's on you, not me.

I suspect sig for this. There's another post later on I'll get to eventually, but I could easily interpret this as a bad sig not even reading the thread, hence 'not remembering' a whole 17 (... )meaty posts in a row from MP.

I would say that if anyone suspecting me right now is mafia, it's most believable to be sig, but I'm a bit hesitant to pursue that train of thought aggressively for multiple reasons:

1) I have not yet had the opportunity to engage directly with sig and he has not yet seen these recent responses of mine, so perhaps he has not had enough information to come to a more informed assessment of me.

2) sig not thoroughly examining the thread, or even reading it, and then making gut-based interpretations of my behavior is just as compatible with a town sig that increasingly is becoming bothered with aspects of my behavior in the game as it is with a mafia sig that is trying to push me as mislynch because everyone on this site knows that I'm a relatively easy mislynch to push. Do you have reason to believe that it is more compatible with the latter explanation? I haven't seen anything compelling personally.

3) Although I do still firmly believe it is on sig that he does not recall my content, his accusation is still potentially legitimate if he believes I am a mafia member manufacturing my suspicions and trying to flood the thread with posts but my substance in those posts is lacking. Now the point I was raised in my quoted post above was that I was contributing more than nearly everyone else, and while that is likely unarguable, mulling over it I think I missed sig's point and that was that he believes, in comparison to his perception of what he believes town MP would be posting, my content is lacking. I did not adequately address that concern.

sig, let me know if you want to engage on any of this.

I don't have enough experience playing with sig in my arsenal to make a call based on his meta. At face value I'd call it suspicious, because I wouldn't associate it with townie behaviour. Emphasising that he tried to suggest that 17 posts, practically all of which contain meat, weren't enough to gain his attention and then putting the blame on you for that is something I suspect.

Can you point me to where your interpretation of his suspicion comes from? I'll get back to it in the morning, I'm going to bed.

[Quin]

By interpretation of his suspicion, I'm referring to where you said 'in comparison to his perception of what he believes town MP would be posting, my content is lacking', just in case you were confused.

[Tangrowth]

My schedule changed a bit and that's why I'm here now (the other reason is that I'm procrastinating reading and assessing recent accounting research to come up with my dissertation topic because fuck that noise). Annie and I have company coming over tonight (DFaraday in fact!), and I have an additional meeting I wasn't planning for after teaching my Excel training class, so at this point it is unlikely I will return until Sunday (Central time), and of course assuming I survive the night (but what kind of mafia team in their right mind would kill me right now?).

Consequently, I do feel a bit compelled to throw out an additional rainbow here before I leave for the day despite only developing more nuanced reads on a handful of players, since the rest aren't talking.

Monkey Island -- Night 1 -- MP Rainbow #2

Epignosis
Golden
Long Con
Nachomamma8
Snow Dog

Boomslang
Macdougall
Quin
Scotty
Soneji

a2thezebra
Black Rock
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Elohcin
Metalmarsh89
nijuukyugou
sig
Vompatti

Note that players are still not yet ranked within groups (they are alphabetical).

I have forcibly removed null reads. Any players that I currently have no reason to assess as town are placed in slight mafia by default.

The players whose placements I feel least comfortable are:
(1) Soneji: I initially felt better about his response to me, but I need to re-assess that response because I have not given it increased attention other than that initial gut reaction. He is the most likely player in the slight town area to fall down if he doesn't give me reason to keep him there.
(2) DrWilgy and Metalmarsh89: These are the two most likely players in the slight mafia area to climb up because I feel like they have a semblance of contribution to this game beyond most of their neighbors.
(3) sig: I need to assess him more carefully and determine whether I believe his thoughts are genuine or not, particularly given his high propensity to be misunderstood and subsequently mislynched.
(4) Quin: The most likely player to rise from slight town to moderate town, but I need more, especially after he just blindsided me 100% in Mad Max.

I probably have more thoughts but I'm running out of time and need to quit here.

I spent way more of all of my in-thread time as of late continuing to defend myself than I wanted, but it is in part due to the continued conversation on me in the thread and feeling as though I had plenty of clarification to do and also in part due to lacking any other relevant content regarding other players by which to judge. I will shift focus to entirely hunting upon my return to the thread, because I feel I have said more than enough in explanation of my own actions. At this point if any of you all don't believe me, so be it. I will answer specific questions if they will be helpful in any of your all's determination of my alignment, but other than that regardless of my future fate I feel my time will be better spent digging into other players because there are too many unknown entities escaping evaluation.

Linki w/ Quin: A good question, but unfortunately I'm out of time as well. I'll get to it ASAP upon my return though, just remind me if I forget or something.

[Elohcin]

I apologize for not being involved. It has been a hell of a week. And it doesn't look like it's slowing down anytime soon. There are some awesome people playing this game and I want to play, but I just don't see the time to do it. I will be asking for a replacement.

[Snow Dog]

I apologize for not being involved. It has been a hell of a week. And it doesn't look like it's slowing down anytime soon. There are some awesome people playing this game and I want to play, but I just don't see the time to do it. I will be asking for a replacement.

That's sad.

MP it looks like you made that new rainbow list to appear more in line with your civ rainbows of yore. I don't know anything about these though as they are a new phenomena to me. Do you update them daily and were the examples Epi showed all day 1 examples?

[Tangrowth]

Sorry to hear it, Elo! Hope the busyness is a good thing though.

I apologize for not being involved. It has been a hell of a week. And it doesn't look like it's slowing down anytime soon. There are some awesome people playing this game and I want to play, but I just don't see the time to do it. I will be asking for a replacement.

That's sad.

MP it looks like you made that new rainbow list to appear more in line with your civ rainbows of yore. I don't know anything about these though as they are a new phenomena to me. Do you update them daily and were the examples Epi showed all day 1 examples?

Lucky for you I obsessively check this game, and thus I often "lie" about "leaving" the thread even when I have every intention to do so, and I have like 15 minutes before I need to head down to my classroom. :P

Yes, these are new to you, so I should have explained earlier. Let me elaborate and then hopefully my behavior will make more sense.

I discovered rainbow lists when I started playing over on the now defunct (RIP) RYM OT message boards and JaggedJimmyJay, Sloonei, etc. employed them to what I witnessed as great success for organizing one's own thoughts and for mobilizing town into cooperation.

Specifically, my personal motivation for creating rainbow lists is threefold as a member of the town.

1. Creating a rainbow list forces me to consider and assess every player which assists in my baddie hunting in that it helps keep me on task: (i) I know which players warrant further examination due to being a mafia read, (ii) I know which players warrant further examination because despite their placement I felt less confident in placing them there (whether it is due to a lack of content on their part and thus it was difficult for me to make an assessment, whether my gut and my head are disagreeing, whether I am torn overall because they have seemed town and mafia about equally, etc.), and (iii) I know which players warrant tinfoil scrutiny if it becomes clear that I am trusting them for perhaps too dubious of reasons. This is all significant because I found in previous games (many that you played with me, for example) that it was difficult to track my own thoughts on players, that I wasn't critically assessing too many players and folks were slipping through the cracks, that I felt directionless and unsure how to proceed with trying to figure out who was bad and how, etc., and upon discovery of this method I found it much easier to structure and organize my own thoughts and feelings on everyone else for my benefit. So they serve not only as a helpful framework for me to organize my thoughts, but also force me to make assessments I probably wouldn't have otherwise, AND they provide a road map for me to tell myself "OK, these are the things you need to focus on". If there are players I'm feeling unsure of and/or cannot recall much of their content, after forcing myself to place them on the rainbow list (likely with a gut-based assessment), I can thereafter dig into that player's posts in isolation (by clicking the "In Topic" deal below their screenname on any post) and conduct an analysis (called an ISO, you'll see at least one of these from me later for sure) and try to get a better idea of how I feel about someone's content.

(2) Further, a rainbow list assists other players in developing an assessment of me (or at least, that's the theory) because it displays all of my thoughts about everyone transparently. Such a list provides detailed feedback as to how I am currently feeling about every other player in the game. The level of detail in each list depends on the explanations within, I have not yet had the opportunity and/or seen the motivation to provide thoroughly detailed accompanying explanations for all of my rainbow reads just yet as it is still early and I've been preoccupied.

(3) Lastly, rainbow lists also invite question and discussion among other thread participants about sources of agreement or disagreement. I like to 'compare rainbows' with other players, especially those I am town reading, because I crave feedback and work better when other people are continuously assessing my reads (because I feel I am not the best at baddie hunting frankly) and I think town as a general unit benefits when everyone is critically assessing everyone else's reads. Anything to help facilitate that process is a good thing in my mind.

My motivation for creating rainbow lists is simple as a member of the mafia: Seem like I'm doing all of those things for the benefit of the town.

Hopefully all of that makes my motivation for using this method clearer. Others on the site have heavily criticized rainbow lists as 'pointless', etc., so not everyone finds them useful. You can get someone else's perspective on that matter as to why they do not find them worth undertaking.

Now I have to depart, but I can answer whatever other questions or concerns you have for me later. Probably 24 hours or so.

[Snow Dog]

Thanks for that, Alex. Didn't answer some of my points but Epi can help me with those.

[Epignosis]

I apologize for not being involved. It has been a hell of a week. And it doesn't look like it's slowing down anytime soon. There are some awesome people playing this game and I want to play, but I just don't see the time to do it. I will be asking for a replacement.

That's sad.

MP it looks like you made that new rainbow list to appear more in line with your civ rainbows of yore. I don't know anything about these though as they are a new phenomena to me. Do you update them daily and were the examples Epi showed all day 1 examples?

Not all of the examples were Day 1 examples. They were all the first list he posted in each respective game, that's all.

[Long Con]

On the other hand, rainbow lists can paint a target on the heads of those who are deemed most Civ.

[Vompatti]

Also there's gold at the end of the rainbow.

[Long Con]

[Marmot]

My schedule changed a bit and that's why I'm here now (the other reason is that I'm procrastinating reading and assessing recent accounting research to come up with my dissertation topic because fuck that noise). Annie and I have company coming over tonight (DFaraday in fact!), and I have an additional meeting I wasn't planning for after teaching my Excel training class, so at this point it is unlikely I will return until Sunday (Central time), and of course assuming I survive the night (but what kind of mafia team in their right mind would kill me right now?).

Consequently, I do feel a bit compelled to throw out an additional rainbow here before I leave for the day despite only developing more nuanced reads on a handful of players, since the rest aren't talking.

Monkey Island -- Night 1 -- MP Rainbow #2

Epignosis
Golden
Long Con
Nachomamma8
Snow Dog

Boomslang
Macdougall
Quin
Scotty
Soneji

a2thezebra
Black Rock
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Elohcin
Metalmarsh89
nijuukyugou
sig
Vompatti

Note that players are still not yet ranked within groups (they are alphabetical).

I have forcibly removed null reads. Any players that I currently have no reason to assess as town are placed in slight mafia by default.

The players whose placements I feel least comfortable are:
(1) Soneji: I initially felt better about his response to me, but I need to re-assess that response because I have not given it increased attention other than that initial gut reaction. He is the most likely player in the slight town area to fall down if he doesn't give me reason to keep him there.
(2) DrWilgy and Metalmarsh89: These are the two most likely players in the slight mafia area to climb up because I feel like they have a semblance of contribution to this game beyond most of their neighbors.
(3) sig: I need to assess him more carefully and determine whether I believe his thoughts are genuine or not, particularly given his high propensity to be misunderstood and subsequently mislynched.
(4) Quin: The most likely player to rise from slight town to moderate town, but I need more, especially after he just blindsided me 100% in Mad Max.

I probably have more thoughts but I'm running out of time and need to quit here.

I spent way more of all of my in-thread time as of late continuing to defend myself than I wanted, but it is in part due to the continued conversation on me in the thread and feeling as though I had plenty of clarification to do and also in part due to lacking any other relevant content regarding other players by which to judge. I will shift focus to entirely hunting upon my return to the thread, because I feel I have said more than enough in explanation of my own actions. At this point if any of you all don't believe me, so be it. I will answer specific questions if they will be helpful in any of your all's determination of my alignment, but other than that regardless of my future fate I feel my time will be better spent digging into other players because there are too many unknown entities escaping evaluation.

Linki w/ Quin: A good question, but unfortunately I'm out of time as well. I'll get to it ASAP upon my return though, just remind me if I forget or something.

I've come to accept that I'll always end up near the middle-bottom of your rainbows, and that's likely to never change.

That said, why do DrWilgy and I both fall near the bottom despite acknowledged contributions? What puts the two of us there?

[Marmot]

Also there's gold at the end of the rainbow.

If a rainbow has two ends, then where does it begin?

[Vompatti]

Also there's gold at the end of the rainbow.

If a rainbow has two ends, then where does it begin?

It emanates from the midpoint k

[sig]

sig, I've provided more reads on players than almost everyone else in the game. If you can't remember my content that's on you, not me.

I suspect sig for this. There's another post later on I'll get to eventually, but I could easily interpret this as a bad sig not even reading the thread, hence 'not remembering' a whole 17 (... )meaty posts in a row from MP.

I would say that if anyone suspecting me right now is mafia, it's most believable to be sig, but I'm a bit hesitant to pursue that train of thought aggressively for multiple reasons:

1) I have not yet had the opportunity to engage directly with sig and he has not yet seen these recent responses of mine, so perhaps he has not had enough information to come to a more informed assessment of me.

2) sig not thoroughly examining the thread, or even reading it, and then making gut-based interpretations of my behavior is just as compatible with a town sig that increasingly is becoming bothered with aspects of my behavior in the game as it is with a mafia sig that is trying to push me as mislynch because everyone on this site knows that I'm a relatively easy mislynch to push. Do you have reason to believe that it is more compatible with the latter explanation? I haven't seen anything compelling personally.

3) Although I do still firmly believe it is on sig that he does not recall my content, his accusation is still potentially legitimate if he believes I am a mafia member manufacturing my suspicions and trying to flood the thread with posts but my substance in those posts is lacking. Now the point I was raised in my quoted post above was that I was contributing more than nearly everyone else, and while that is likely unarguable, mulling over it I think I missed sig's point and that was that he believes, in comparison to his perception of what he believes town MP would be posting, my content is lacking. I did not adequately address that concern.

sig, let me know if you want to engage on any of this.

Yeah MP hit the nail on the head, also it isn't that he isn't posting content it's that he is posting content in an MP mafia sort of way. Maybe i'm just paranoid after seeing him destroy town in Scrimmage, since in that game he flooded the thread amd it was meaty, but it was lacking content since he wasn't attempting to actually solve the game, but distract people. That is what I was seeing from day 1 MP, so of course I sounded off and pointed it out.

I still have a mafia lean on MP, but less so after his latest batch of posts.

[DFaraday]

I'm sorry I missed the vote. The last day of work before break was hectic. Will catch up later today. I'm voting to learn more because more information is likely a good thing.

[Golden]

I'm not sure why I was pinged by this post, but I do disagree with it. Voting is just as much as a mafia weapon as it is civs. Hell, look at my Mad Max game. My voting record was probably half the reason that I all-but secured the win there. I'm not familiar enough with Soneji to actually suspect him for this, but I'm willing to put it down as a conflict of opinion.

Townish post from Quin.

[nijuukyugou]

At a bar Will catch up later. Asking about LOOM.

[thellama73]

Night ends in an hour and I am still missing lots of actions.

[Tangrowth]

So I might actually be around briefly today after all (as evidenced by popping in here and making a liar of myself once again), but still doubtful that I'll be here any real solid amount of time until tomorrow morning, since if I do have free time between now and being occupied with tabletop games with friends tonight, that free time will go towards starting my Parks and Recreation game I'm about to host. Can't keep those sockpuppets waiting. So this will be my last post until I get that game running.

Meanwhile, just wanted to pop in and say I've skimmed the thread to stay current, and I apologize for not answering your other questions, Snowy. I was in a huge rush and got caught up on explaining my motivations and why I love rainbow lists. Lol.

To answer your question as to how often I post them, I don't really have a systematic timing approach to them, which is precisely why Epi was able to find such a discrepancy. These days though, especially when I'm truly engaged in a game, I try to post at least one per cycle. Really, I just update or post a new one if I feel like my opinions on players has substantially changed enough to warrant a new one. Hope that helps.

And just quickly regarding LC's input, that ("painting targets on townie backs") is an argument against rainbow lists, yeah, but I don't even see that as a downside. While I agree with Quin that mafia have a huge asset with their votes, they are severely outnumbered in votes, and their biggest asset that townies don't have is their nightkill. If a few players, or even just one player, can clear a player as likely town and thus force the mafia to use their NK to take that player out, then the mafia forego the strategic advantage of their NK. Instead their kills are being dictated by the thread (and town, specifically), and I think that's great.

To answer your concern, MM, it's really because you and Wilgy are two unreadable motherfuckers. Seriously, you both are ridiculously hard for me to read. I think it's the reliance (especially in early game) on WIFOM. It's a blindspot for me; WIFOM just makes me back away and I never know how to assess it; usually ends up being null. Anyway, you two have strong potential to be slight town reads but I just can't put you there quite yet because I can't immediately recall any reason to call you town. I need to ISO you both pronto to make that determination since (and this is on me) I cannot really recall your post histories enough to make a fair judgment. So... TL;DR: You're both null but got knocked down to the slight mafias with the rest of the other nulls who have posted less.

Oh and Quin, I'll still address your thing re: sig. I need to dig into his ISO to properly give you an answer, and I'd like to examine his posts anyway. And yes, after your impeccable performance in Mad Max, you scare me a bit now.

Anyway, I have other thoughts, but gotta go.

[thellama73]

Day 2

Loom? Why Loom is a marvelous graphic adventure game from the good people at Lucasarts. It features innovative controls, a compelling storyline, and stunning graphics that paint a lush picture of another world in 16 glorious colors. Featuring the creative talents of Brian Moriarty, Loom is a game unlike any other.

It tells the story of a young Bobbin Threadbare, a member of the Weavers Guild who is thrust into adventure when it falls to him to save his world from the Third Shadow. Using a distaff, he is able to perform "drafts", which are basically spells cast by producing a fixed series of musical notes, a gameplay mechanic unique to Loom.

Originally released in 1990, Loom remains a classic, but is unfortunately no longer commercially available. It was last released on CD-ROM in 2008, and an intrepid gamer could likely find a downloadable version on any one of a number of emulation sites.

LOOM™! Play it today!

Golden has ben killed.
You have 48 hours to lynch a baddie.

[Vompatti]

RIP

I still haven't played LOOM™.

[Golden]

welcome back, me! :P

[Epignosis]

Time to cull the less actives.

[Epignosis]

Two people should have died. Only one did.

LeChuck - The infamous ghost pirate. Kills nightly.

The Cannibals (3) - Just want to be left alone on Monkey Island. They kill nightly and win if both other teams are dead (with the exception of Herman Toothrot and the Head of the Navigator, whom they can tolerate.)

There's a blocker, a protector, and the Head of the Navigator, but there's also this:

Night ends in an hour and I am still missing lots of actions.

[Snow Dog]

welcome back, me! :P

I am sorry to see you go so soon.

[Snow Dog]

Two people should have died. Only one did.

LeChuck - The infamous ghost pirate. Kills nightly.

The Cannibals (3) - Just want to be left alone on Monkey Island. They kill nightly and win if both other teams are dead (with the exception of Herman Toothrot and the Head of the Navigator, whom they can tolerate.)

There's a blocker, a protector, and the Head of the Navigator, but there's also this:

Night ends in an hour and I am still missing lots of actions.

Yes I was surprised at only one death. There is a role blocker so that could explain that. Probably.

[Snow Dog]

Two people should have died. Only one did.

LeChuck - The infamous ghost pirate. Kills nightly.

The Cannibals (3) - Just want to be left alone on Monkey Island. They kill nightly and win if both other teams are dead (with the exception of Herman Toothrot and the Head of the Navigator, whom they can tolerate.)

There's a blocker, a protector, and the Head of the Navigator, but there's also this:

Night ends in an hour and I am still missing lots of actions.

Yes I was surprised at only one death. There is a role blocker so that could explain that. Probably.

Ah of course I see, could have been the protector or the Navigator as well. Sorry for that stupid moment.

[Marmot]

It's Day 2 and I'm still here!

First order of business; Sockface, are you a member mafia?

[Epignosis]

I'm not interested in MP right now. I want to give him room Day 2 to get his ideas out there (like he ever needed room for that ), but I want to know who missed a kill. That's a team of four and a team of three. One of those teams fell asleep at the wheel.

[Black Rock]

MP's reactions this night make me think he is civ. Otherwise I don't understand his frustration and anger.

His reactions make him neutral to me, since I've seen him react in such ways civ or bad.

I'm going to make this vote. I just have no idea where it will be, but the day is young. The computer will be moving up from the basement soon and that will make mafiaing easier.

[a2thezebra]

[a2thezebra]

[Epignosis]

"I think I see llama as evil, fucking mafia which makes me happy."

[Epignosis]

MP's reactions this night make me think he is civ. Otherwise I don't understand his frustration and anger.

His reactions make him neutral to me, since I've seen him react in such ways civ or bad.

I'm going to make this vote. I just have no idea where it will be, but the day is young. The computer will be moving up from the basement soon and that will make mafiaing easier.

One team possibly missed the kill. You have two posts, including the above.

[a2thezebra]

"I think I see llama as evil, fucking mafia which makes me happy."

[Epignosis]

I want to lynch Black Rock.