GY!BE Mafia [E.N.D.]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Stuff about triceratopzeuhl:

Spoiler: show

triceratopzeuhl:

In your first post you acknowledged the quick beginnings of the baddie hunting in this game with what looked like an air of approval. Your content since though has been about the POE strategic discussion. Do you derive any reads from that?

Just impressed with the gusto from some people even if it might be mostly hot air. I can't tell much on day 0 and I seriously doubt anybody else can, no matter what they claim. We don't even have a lynch vote today, no night actions have happened, there isn't even a semi-nonsensical day 0 poll like some hosts like to do (MP comes to mind). At best one of the over-enthused paragraphs here will sound funny & gather suspicion - but who is more likely to be theorycrafting and looking for a winning strategy for the civs, goodies or baddies? Baddies benefit more from not directing attention at themselves.

Anyway, if alex is going to be posting his rainbow list here instead of keeping his reads private, it will if nothing else provide fodder for discussion

I liked this one at the time and still think it's a decent look. He speaks honestly of his own perceived inability to do much with Day 0 content and also suggests most of it is hot air -- but he also is positive in his assessments of players who are producing that hot air. He respects the effort even if he doesn't have much faith in it, and he doesn't promote easy tinfoil against those people giving an effort.

Spoiler: show

so has epignosis decided he just doesn't want to contribute at all this game, or is he planning on eventually making discussion-related posts with every word capitalized?

I wasn't thrilled with the Epi wagon of Day 1, but trice was the exception. To suspect Epi purely for his posting gimmick does not evidence a thorough hunting mindset, in my opinion, in people who know the guy. That's where trice is a bit different: he hasn't been around here in a long time, and I don't know what his prior experience playing with Epi is if any. If it's limited, that means his first exposure to the Mafia player Epignosis is in this game, and I think it's more understandable in that context to be perturbed. I don't know that I qualified this though:

trice: prior to this game, how much experience have you had playing with Epignosis?

[url=http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 21#p313921]I do note here that trice's read on MP appeared to sour some. "Low noise-to-post ratio" is distinctly accusatory, so the prior mindset of acceptance seems to have faded. Is this accurate, trice, and if so why?

Spoiler: show

I am less thrilled with the Epi wagon. It seems lazy or worse to get through this thick pile of posts from Day 0 to now and arrive there. I also think "hiding behind a gimmick/roleplay" is a weak accusation that comes from baddies more often ghan the average accusation.

I've been criticized for this opinion before but I don't think lynching people who are purposely being useless is a terrible choice, even if they flip town.

This is a bold statement. He didn't seem to care about inviting scrutiny upon himself for suggesting there's ever a time when a mislynch isn't a big deal. This is relatable to me since I do think there are such instances. In this case though I would question whether this assessment should fairly be applied to Epignosis -- even in the gimmick there's at least a visible trend of relevant content in his posts.

Spoiler: show

I initially misread and thought that boomslang was talking about the day 1 lynch there, and was confused because he voted for MM not for timmer.

Noticing now that that was from day 2, you're right that it's a completely nonsense attempt at logic. How does voting for timmer give info on MM? Especially given that yesterday, his reason for voting MM was that he thought timmer was good and that MM was wrongly accusing timmer:

Been out all Saturday. Alas. But the thing that pinged me most all day was MM jumping down my/timmer's throat for a timing thing that would've been way too clumsy for baddie move. Voting there.

One possible reason I can see for boomslang to vote timmer is if they are teammates, he knows timmer is unlikely to lynched, and wants to dissociate with him. The only thing that has me second guessing is that there is at least 1 civ BTSC pair.

any chance of boomslang commenting before the lynch poll ends?

linki - epi - what do you think the reason behind boomslang's vote today is then?

One trend brewing in trice's posts that isn't ideal is a penchant for snatching easy critical opportunities. Epi's gimmick, MP's post count, and now Boomslang's weird vote snafu. This trend progressed with trice's animosity toward A Person. That is something trice needs to answer for.

Trice: do you feel you've done sufficient critical thinking each day phase to judge both the town and the anti-town motives for the players you've suspected?

Spoiler: show

I have to say, if boomslang "wins" (loses) the lynch vote and turns out to be part of a civ btsc pair I'm gonna be pissed. But I still think it's a compelling case against him (and I DON'T think "that would have been a terrible move for baddie boomslang" is a counterargument, nobody plays perfectly all the time)

Yellow: Trice made it clear he was at least considering the possibility of civilian BTSC for Boomslang, and whether that's true or not it would figure to represent a significant roadblock in his conviction to maintain that vote.

Orange: This isn't my favorite rationale either. I would agree that nobody plays perfectly all the time, but that doesn't mean we should ignore arguments about the sensibility of certain proposed baddie maneuvers. Sometimes they genuinely do make too little sense for a case to be compelling. There's WIFOM in that, but as an old friend used to say: WIFOM is true until it isn't.

Spoiler: show

What if, e.g., Sunshine + Gasoline's secret is that night powers targeting one will affect both of them?

Or if something in Mladic role (I believe he is probably the mafia insanifier) says "if you target one of a btsc pair it affects both of them" or something along those lines?

Possible.

Here's why I bring it up, before anybody asks:

-JJJ and golden both seem good to me

-that means if there is a civ insanifier role they maybe used their power irresponsibly last night, BUT the alternate possibility exists that there is no civ who can insanify

-I believe if Mladic's role was simply "can insanify 1 player each night" then it would be listed visibly like Storm's silence, so it must be more complicated than that

I can appreciate the effort at outside-the-box theorizing.

Spoiler: show

Here's the complete list of players who posted during night 1 but not night 2:

A Person
scotty

A Person, Epignosis and Lorab missed the night 2 poll (though Lorab posted once and Epignosis posted 7 times). Scotty voted in it.

So in the possible situation that Alfothad's kill isn't activated yet and Moya was absent rather than getting blocked, then A Person is the only player who didn't show up in any way during night 2

However not seeing any insanified posters I'm pretty sure rockets fall must have used his power

linki mm - right, noted, there would have to be more than 1 block anyway I think

This is, perhaps ironically, a brand of hunting that I'd associate with Epignosis. Maybe you two have more in common than you think.

Spoiler: show

Golden and JJJ both got insanified, we don't know for certain the alignment of insanifiers. Most popular opinion is that there is a good one and a bad one, which would mean that somebody good thinks one of those two is bad (and could be 100% wrong of course), and the other one should be either good or indy/serial killer but not mafia. No way to know which is which that I can tell.

If one of the two dies we should keep this in mind though, might be useful info

I like his continued effort to explore Golden and I relative to our atypical Day 2. I don't exactly follow the logic here, since it seems reliant upon the unknown variable that is hypothetical town insanifier targets an unknown Golden/JJJ. Still, in posts like this the thoughts swirling around in trice's head are almost visible to the naked eye, and that's a nice thing.

~~~

I think the good trice stuff tends to come from the more extraneous reads/concepts he is exploring, such as his earliest treatment of the high posters and his later consideration of Golden and I. The stuff which is less ideal is the trend in which trice pursues lines of suspicion which could be called easy button or obvious.

Overall I think he looks more like a confident and at times irritated townie than a manipulative baddie.

Trice: when time permits please address some of the questions/concerns I've expressed in this compilation.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Correcting the incomplete link up there:

Link -- I do note here that trice's read on MP appeared to sour some. "Low noise-to-post ratio" is distinctly accusatory, so the prior mindset of acceptance seems to have faded. Is this accurate, trice, and if so why?

[triceratopzeuhl]

Good or Helpful = Lynching Civilians and Threatening to Vote Another One for Not Being Good or Helpful

You've contributed to lynching just as many civs as I have

I'd like to know what others think of Scotty right now. Each time I look at the player list his name stands out loudly to me.

Well he's been missing/not caught up for a while now apparently. Possibly worth noting that he was one of the 4 names Sloonei was discussing immediately before getting silenced which could potentially be a shortlist for the Sleep role.

Yes, that's I'm asking. I see trice voted before MM had any votes, so is that what you meant? I'm guessing yes.

I also said this when I voted for AP:

I'm voting for him until I see at least an attempt at finding mafia members

would have been easily correctable if he was playing the game

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm going to restate my primary Scotty beefs for Scotty himself whenever he is available.

Spoiler: show

~ Scotty's efforts to communicate with Golden and facilitate his involvement in the continuing dialogue was a decent look. I was able to work with the methods they employed myself, though perhaps with less clarity. I appreciate that he provided Golden with a forum to convey his reads when at the time I believe he was not in Golden's good graces. I do have some lingering concern though primarily centered in one post:

I don't really have time to do a full catch up, just enough to see that (I assume) inh was good.

I don't much like the epi votes. Except maybe trice's one.

I also really don't like scotty basically being like 'told you guys'. Calling your shot on someone being civilian is the easiest thing to do in the world since a) most people are and b) all baddies have an even higher percentage shot of being right (in this case 15/16); but

c) bragging about it afterwards is the equivalent of discrediting a load of people, even when at least half of them are town, and d) not only does it discredit, but it also puts the focus squarely on 'who voted for a civilian to die' instead of 'who is bad' which are not necessarily the same thing.

I'll be all for looking to see if any inh votes are uninspired. But when I last looked, there were four and all of them felt fair and well explained in the thread to me.

What??! How is "well there ya go" in any way "I told you guys"? How is that bragging about it? Show me where I bragged about you all being wrong.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth and manipulating this away from you and the other INH voters so you don't have to take responsibility for your votes. Yes, civs make the wrong votes all the time. Of course they do. But I already feel like you, JJJ, Sloonei and Mp have all come after me on day 1 for bullsuit reasons and I find it manipulative. Couple that with the fact that I don't trust you guys, makes me think at least 1 or a couple of you might be bad. Just because I haven't had a tennis match where I've spewed 5028 posts in the matter of 24 hours doesn't mean I can't make reads off of votes.

I didn't know INH was gonna flip good, but I definitely didn't think he would flip bad. So get off your high horse, golden.

Love, Scotty

Yellow: hyperbolic/exaggerated language looks insincere at face value.

Orange: this is an accusation, and it implies to me that Scotty is suspicious of Golden now for two reasons: contributing to the INH lynch, and "manipulating the conversation away from INH voters". This is something Scotty didn't follow up on, and that makes me question the motive for cramming it into this response in the first place. I think the suspicion inherent in this language is pretty clear, and that he didn't proceed with it (indeed he became Golden's communicative aid in Day 2) raises doubts that it was honest. The alternative explanation is less ideal: that he turned Golden's accusation against him as a defense mechanism with intent to discredit his accuser.

I would also assert the orange bit and the second yellow bit go together awkwardly. If Golden is on a "high horse", that would imply he is overconfident about a read, not falsifying a read. The difference is important, as it relates directly to alignment.

Green: this just has its own discrediting power given its vaguely critical language.

Scotty, please talk about those things.

Spoiler: show

I could also consider voting for Scotty.

I'm way behind everyone. Like 12 pages behind. Looks like no one died?

Will Do my best to catch up.

I'm still not caught up. 5 or so more pages to read.. I see JJJ has a little case breakdown that I skimmed. Eventually I'll get around to answering it.

I never said my vote was forced. LoRab decided that. I have calmed my jets on a few people I had recently suspected. I'm actually feeling better about Golden, and Mp. I think BWT is still suspicious? Why? I forgot. But he said some stuff some some time ago that was phrased in a weird way that perked uo ym ears like Pluto. Sloon is on neutral ground. Slight mafia still on JJJ. I don't think he was faking his curse, I just think his curser was just unimaginative.

I'm way behind. Long day, may not get around to this until tomorrow at the earliest. Blech my mafia time where did it go???

To fall behind sometimes is understandable. Life happens. However, I don't get the impression Scotty has much urgency to involve himself in this game even as he makes the attempt to catch up. He has given us a live-track of his status (12 pages behind, 5 pages behind), but in the process of that catchup his productivity has been scarce. I would think a town Scotty would be grabbing quotes as he reads along and sharing some kind of thoughts instead of this sort of one-off neutral commentary on what he needs to do and a few half-reads.

[Epignosis]

Yes, that's I'm asking. I see trice voted before MM had any votes, so is that what you meant? I'm guessing yes.

I also said this when I voted for AP:

I'm voting for him until I see at least an attempt at finding mafia members

would have been easily correctable if he was playing the game

Victim Blaming

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I also said this when I voted for AP:

I'm voting for him until I see at least an attempt at finding mafia members

would have been easily correctable if he was playing the game

Did you feel this was a demand A Person was ever likely to meet either way?

[triceratopzeuhl]

I wasn't thrilled with the Epi wagon of Day 1, but trice was the exception. To suspect Epi purely for his posting gimmick does not evidence a thorough hunting mindset, in my opinion, in people who know the guy. That's where trice is a bit different: he hasn't been around here in a long time, and I don't know what his prior experience playing with Epi is if any. If it's limited, that means his first exposure to the Mafia player Epignosis is in this game, and I think it's more understandable in that context to be perturbed. I don't know that I qualified this though:

trice: prior to this game, how much experience have you had playing with Epignosis?

Note also that before I voted for him day 1 I also asked epi twice if he was planning on posting content and he ignored me both times. An answer would likely have lead me down other routes. I've played a couple games with him, idk for sure how many, this is my first mafia game since 2014 though. I also know epignosis from progarchives.

One trend brewing in trice's posts that isn't ideal is a penchant for snatching easy critical opportunities. Epi's gimmick, MP's post count, and now Boomslang's weird vote snafu. This trend progressed with trice's animosity toward A Person. That is something trice needs to answer for.

Trice: do you feel you've done sufficient critical thinking each day phase to judge both the town and the anti-town motives for the players you've suspected?

For starters I've never once voted for MP in a poll, not even to change later. Does everybody else who voted for epignosis and boomslang after me for my reasons without adding anything else need to answer for it as well? Yourself included (in the AP lynch).

Again (getting to be a theme), I made several posts about A Person that nobody replied to:

A Person Complained About Volume...He Could Have Killed the Source of the Volume (But He Didn't)

Hypothetical, if he's a baddie but not the one with the nk, and he's as inactive in BTSC as he is in thread, his teammates probably wouldn't pick the kill based on his opinion

Or if his brain isn't made out of meatloaf he could misdirect people with his posting...

Well there's also the fact that he hasn't put forth a single suspicion or commented on anything that has happened this game so far

Yellow: Trice made it clear he was at least considering the possibility of civilian BTSC for Boomslang, and whether that's true or not it would figure to represent a significant roadblock in his conviction to maintain that vote.

I deemed it a low probability and still do, was just mentioning all possibilities I saw.

This is, perhaps ironically, a brand of hunting that I'd associate with Epignosis. Maybe you two have more in common than you think.

I think we have plenty in common yes, I just don't like how he's playing this game

Golden and JJJ both got insanified, we don't know for certain the alignment of insanifiers. Most popular opinion is that there is a good one and a bad one, which would mean that somebody good thinks one of those two is bad (and could be 100% wrong of course), and the other one should be either good or indy/serial killer but not mafia. No way to know which is which that I can tell.

If one of the two dies we should keep this in mind though, might be useful info

I like his continued effort to explore Golden and I relative to our atypical Day 2. I don't exactly follow the logic here, since it seems reliant upon the unknown variable that is hypothetical town insanifier targets an unknown Golden/JJJ. Still, in posts like this the thoughts swirling around in trice's head are almost visible to the naked eye, and that's a nice thing.

Yes, this post was based on the assumption that most posters seemed to share even though I'm still leaning towards both insanifications being from Mladic. Not the only time this game I've expanded on other people's theories even if I don't subscribe fully to them, it's called trying to be helpful (see for instance: following up on sig's idea that Moya might be an absentee).

Also I should have been clearer, the way it helps in is that AT MOST 1 of you two should be a mafia member, so if either you or golden dies and is revealed to be a mafia member, then we should be able to clear the other one. Fairly specific circumstances, but better than no info. As I noted civ and SK indistinguishable by these means.

Link -- I do note here that trice's read on MP appeared to sour some. "Low noise-to-post ratio" is distinctly accusatory, so the prior mindset of acceptance seems to have faded. Is this accurate, trice, and if so why?

I didn't intend or read it as accusatory per se, more commenting on the fact that at that point in the game I really wasn't getting anything of use out of MP's many posts. I still don't have a good read on MP at all.

Trice: when time permits please address some of the questions/concerns I've expressed in this compilation.

Hope I got the bulk of it & didn't bungle quotes too badly.

[triceratopzeuhl]

I also said this when I voted for AP:

I'm voting for him until I see at least an attempt at finding mafia members

would have been easily correctable if he was playing the game

Did you feel this was a demand A Person was ever likely to meet either way?

He posted on day 3 shortly before I made this post, I thought it was possible. Maybe we should have just subbed him out

[Epignosis]

I think we have plenty in common yes, I just don't like how he's playing this game

Object of the Game: Vote Out the People Who Are Playing in a Way You Don't Like

[triceratopzeuhl]

I think we have plenty in common yes, I just don't like how he's playing this game

Object of the Game: Vote Out the People Who Are Playing in a Way You Don't Like

by "I don't like the way you're playing the game" I mean "I'm pretty sure you are bad and are constantly making idiotic posts like the one I just quoted"

[triceratopzeuhl]

Good or Helpful = Lynching Civilians and Threatening to Vote Another One for Not Being Good or Helpful

see he even admits it

[JaggedJimmyJay]

For starters I've never once voted for MP in a poll, not even to change later. Does everybody else who voted for epignosis and boomslang after me for my reasons without adding anything else need to answer for it as well? Yourself included (in the AP lynch).

I'm not talking solely about votes; I'm talking about promoting a negative read -- that can happen with or without a vote. Which other players specifically are you referring to here? Do you feel those players are suspicious?

I didn't intend or read it as accusatory per se, more commenting on the fact that at that point in the game I really wasn't getting anything of use out of MP's many posts. I still don't have a good read on MP at all.

Do you mean you don't read MP as civilian at all, or you don't have a clear read on him at all?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I also said this when I voted for AP:

I'm voting for him until I see at least an attempt at finding mafia members

would have been easily correctable if he was playing the game

Did you feel this was a demand A Person was ever likely to meet either way?

He posted on day 3 shortly before I made this post, I thought it was possible. Maybe we should have just subbed him out

This one I am not a fan of. I think A Person made it pretty clear he wasn't going to do anything in this game and that your ultimatum was not going to be met.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The trend continues with LoRab: limited opportunities to play the game are spent in self-defense.

[Epignosis]

I think we have plenty in common yes, I just don't like how he's playing this game

Object of the Game: Vote Out the People Who Are Playing in a Way You Don't Like

by "I don't like the way you're playing the game" I mean "I'm pretty sure you are bad and are constantly making idiotic posts like the one I just quoted"

Then Eliminate Me Big Boy

[timmer]

@JJJ, reading your posts that have the word Epignosis in them, it does seem like your view on the alignment of Epignosis changed while your thoughts of his particular gameplay didn't, much. To expand: you've acknowledged from Day 1 that Epig was pursuing a specific way of playing, and you suggested early on that a baddie Epig would NOT do this. You mentioned this a few times.

And then, even in light of you trying to post about Epig during your curse, you then afterwards listed Epig as good in a GTH. But only now after he posted the "told you so" style posts after AP's death that had irked me, did you start referring to him as suspicious for the very same gameplay. Is it the told-you-so posts that tipped the scale, for you?

Please explain, because my read feels like you didn't change your mind on how he is playing, but changed your mind on the alignment that it represents. Is that right?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JJJ, reading your posts that have the word Epignosis in them, it does seem like your view on the alignment of Epignosis changed while your thoughts of his particular gameplay didn't, much. To expand: you've acknowledged from Day 1 that Epig was pursuing a specific way of playing, and you suggested early on that a baddie Epig would NOT do this. You mentioned this a few times.

And then, even in light of you trying to post about Epig during your curse, you then afterwards listed Epig as good in a GTH. But only now after he posted the "told you so" style posts after AP's death that had irked me, did you start referring to him as suspicious for the very same gameplay. Is it the told-you-so posts that tipped the scale, for you?

Please explain, because my read feels like you didn't change your mind on how he is playing, but changed your mind on the alignment that it represents. Is that right?

I would say both are true to an extent -- I don't view the way he is playing the same way I did on Day 1, and that change has facilitated a less positive perspective of alignment.

On Day 1, I suggested a baddie Epi would be unlikely to play in a way that isn't prideful -- or in a way that is lazy. I was referring to his posting gimmick, the post-rock song titles. I was not referring to his employment of POE, or his lack of named suspects, or anything game-relevant. To that point, he hadn't put a great deal of original content in the thread, and I said that I would expect a bad Epi to be doing something more with his posts. As the game has progressed, his posts have shifted from their earliest silly flavor to what is currently a very game-relevant and focused flavor, even if the gimmick still holds. I expanded on my Day 2 grievances with Epignosis in Night 2 when I was able to speak. For much of the day I felt he was dicking around with both Golden and I and not making a real effort to understand us.

At the end of Day 2 though he and I ended up voting together, for DrWilgy. Something that has happened with decent frequency in games featuring both a town Epi and a town JJJ has been mutual suspicion which shifts to cooperation. We rarely get through a game without engaging in some kind of combat for whatever reason, but we also have been able to temper that suspicion when it comes to our eventual voting decisions when it's clear neither is being lynched. When he was willing to step away from his suspicion of me on Day 2 and vote alongside me, that's something I appreciated. It was probably the primary reason I gave him the town nod on Day 3.

Then the A Person lynch happened and he saddled the blame for all three lynches on my shoulders. That's another move I recognize, this time recalling a scum Epignosis in Red vs. Blue, in which I -- being the typical Analytic Thread Leader that I tend to be perceived as -- get the blame dumped on me. It's not just blame though, it's accusation. A baddie Epignosis has tried to make me the scapegoat before for erroneous votes I have made (in Red vs. Blue), and on this Night 3 it has felt like that's happening again. Combine that with the fact that I have doubts about whether he was truly invested in preventing the lynches that he told you so'd about after the fact, and that's cause for suspicion. It's why I have tried this night phase to engage a dialogue to understand him better and qualify that read.

[Sloonei]

The trend continues with LoRab: limited opportunities to play the game are spent in self-defense.

Though I've become mostly uninvolved in this game, my confidence about this LoRab case is pretty strong. But I have read nothing since my last.

[timmer]

Thx for the reply, JJJ!

[LoRab]

The trend continues with LoRab: limited opportunities to play the game are spent in self-defense.

And if people keep accusing me, what exactly do you expect me to do?

Also, you seem to ignore that I actually said new things in my last post.

The trend continues with LoRab: limited opportunities to play the game are spent in self-defense.

Though I've become mostly uninvolved in this game, my confidence about this LoRab case is pretty strong. But I have read nothing since my last.

It's also entirely wrong.

[Ricochet]

Night 3: Double Target Overkill Deluxe Golden Mastering Album

Spoiler: show

[Ricochet]

06 - N3.png (50.89 KiB) Viewed 981 times

[Epignosis]

WIIACIISSRVGAOZJOSERLMGRRUKSHOH

[Sloonei]

WIIACIISSRVGAOZJOSERLMGRRUKSHOH

Fake.

[timmer]

Interesting.

[timmer]

Sorry to see you go, Golden

[Epignosis]

WIIACIISSRVGAOZJOSERLMGRRUKSHOH

Fake.

YNILEHCOHVNDNGNXNERUNPUYCOBJ

[Marmot]

Let me tell you a story.



I was on a mountain yesterday. Pondering my existence, the meaning of life, and the coexistence between humans and other animals. I do this to reaffirm that though we often do and say harsh things to each other, we all mean well. It's great that marmots, llamas, mongooses, birds (even those without teeth), wombats, skeletors, and all other living creatures can get together and play a game of mafia. It's truly a beautiful thing.

I gathered myself, and set off back down the mountain, watching the sun set in the distance as I hiked. The colors really do wondrous things to when the sun hits the clouds just right at this time of day. It's the reason I make my descent at this hour. Needless to say, I don't mind hiking in the dark. I know the path, and the path knows I'm there. It's a feeling I've grown accustomed to and relish.

As I entered the treeline, I came around a bend and heard a rustling ahead: one that caused quite the commotion. I realized it was a human, which itself is interesting, but not near so as much as the object beside it. I was taken aback by this situation; the human was large enough, but this thing, long an unnaturally designed, was enormous! I couldn't help but to let my chin drop as a stood before it. The sun had sunk by now, but I could still see this thing's glow, as it gleamed in the night, blue as the sky on a sunny day.

The human hadn't noticed my approach. I watched as it fiddled with something on the side of it. Next thing I knew, the human was inside! What was it doing?! This thing was not natural at all! Why did the human get inside? Then I remembered something my Grandpa Greywiskers would always tell. Humans are an interesting race. They like to create and they like to destroy, and we should be careful around them, because you never know what they'll want to destroy. Maybe this human had created this thing? It was possible. This monstrous thing showed no signs of life. No heat, no heartbeat, no fur, it couldn't be alive.

Suddenly, my world was filled with a blinding white light!! Like I was staring into the sun and was being consumed! The air was filled with a clanging and gritty noise, like water flowing in a creek, except it was full of rocks and flowing through my ears instead. And there was the smell of... What was that smell? It reminded me of singed pine cones, but it was much more pungent. Ugh, it was awful! I couldn't react. All I could do was wait for my senses to return.

I felt the splatter and new that feeling. Fresh mud! It's a wonderful feeling, but I still couldn't see, hear or smell. Yet I could still sense the proximity around me. The human was gone, and so was that giant blue creature. Had it come alive? My vision slowly returned, and I looked down to see some strange tracks in the ground. These weren't regular footprints, these tracks drew a line in the dirt ten paws wide, and disappeared into the night.

That's when I smelled something new. Oooh, I didn't like it. That's the smell of marmot blood. I scurried in that direction, ominously following the large tracks as a I went. Then I found Rosa! My poor, poor Ponderosa!! There was nothing left of her but a flattened mess of fur and blood, imprinted in the ground in the middle of those damned creature's tracks. I fell to the dirt and wept. My Rosa, my marmot to be, smashed like a juniper berry underpaw. I've never felt this anguish in all my life.



That's when I realized who that human was (or who I think it was) with that sleek blue machine. He sometimes dresses as a bear and roams the wilderness. Nobody knows why, but he's a human alright. I've heard of this human before: JaggedJimmyJay!

[Golden]

Cowards!

[Marmot]

I urge you all to help me rid the world of this man (and everyone he is working with)!!! We cannot let his marmotcide habits continue!

If anyone needs me, I'll be mourning the loss of Rosa.

[Epignosis]

I felt the splatter and new that feeling.

YEHPOWSTCS

[Marmot]

I felt the splatter and new that feeling.

YEHPOWSTCS

I'm no writer! I'm just a hysterical marmot widower!

Oh Epignosis, why do you ridicule me so?!

[Marmot]

I literally cannot fathom why anyone would harm such a peaceful little creature. Ponderosa was the most beautiful little whistler there ever was. And she got along with humans! Far better than I ever could. Her death will not be in vain!

[timmer]

You cursed, too, MM?

[Tangrowth]

Hey folks, I'm going to be pretty busy this weekend grading final exams, but I'll make sure to make some time at some point for this game.

[Marmot]

You cursed, too, MM?

Cursed?! We marmots broke the curse over 500 moons ago when forced the coyotes down to the valley! We've thrived since then, and we've done it peacefully with all of our neighbors.

But my dear Rosa is gone... This must really be a curse placed on us marmots. But what could we possibly have done to deserve such cruelty?!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I note that Golden was killed by both the SK and Sleep. Sleep being one of them is curious, since the original killing mafioso is Moya. Sleep inherits the kill if Moya dies. This would seem to be an indicator that Moya is dead, which raises questions: who among the corpses could it have been? Only Vompatti has an unrevealed role, so if he's Moya that means the SK had a Night 1 kill. If that's the case, perhaps the SK is activated by some manner of day phase mechanism (i.e. receiving a vote or something similar).

The only other explanation I can think of would be a seemer among the lynched townies, something which would seem to be discounted by the lack of a "[secrets]" attached to the Moya role. Otherwise perhaps there's an explanation in the [secrets] of the Sleep role.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epi getting the CVNDLFKHN treatment is an amusement development.

Marmot and Epi, if you're both cursed, it appears you're able to use quotes. That provides an avenue for communication. They can be manipulated a number of ways to generate a relatively coherent message.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You could use those quotes to state your beef, Marmot.

[Dom]

Epig, all people want out of you, and I don't get why you don't get this, are some alternatives. I mean, I said just like you dI'd that many of the cases yesterday were problematic. But that's where it ended for you. You are stubbornly refusing to take the lead in finding better choices and until you start to, just saying that you were right is going to go nowhere.

Linki: your refusal to find baddies is discrediting you, man. Take some responsibility for your lack of finding bad guys and stop blaming everybody for not seeing you as the uber-civ you claim to be.

If You Find The Civilians, You Only Have Mafia Left Over and It Starts to Get Very Uncomfortable for Them

Why are we criticizing the approach Epi is taking to the game when MP initially took the very same approach?

His only reason for suspecting either me or JJJ is that we are criticizing his baddie-like behavior

[arrested development, ron howard narrator voice]
it's not.

I think we have plenty in common yes, I just don't like how he's playing this game

Object of the Game: Vote Out the People Who Are Playing in a Way You Don't Like

by "I don't like the way you're playing the game" I mean "I'm pretty sure you are bad and are constantly making idiotic posts like the one I just quoted"

....vote trice 2k17

Good or Helpful = Lynching Civilians and Threatening to Vote Another One for Not Being Good or Helpful

see he even admits it

.....?
?!!?!

The trend continues with LoRab: limited opportunities to play the game are spent in self-defense.

I also see this criticism of her.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why are we criticizing the approach Epi is taking to the game when MP initially took the very same approach?

I can only speak for myself, but I am not criticizing Epi for playing POE. I think POE can be a very effective method. My concern with Epi is that his conduct late in lynches and immediately after lynches don't look entirely sincere: he is doing just little enough to ensure lynches don't change, and then casting suspicion upon those who voted in those lynches. I am unconvinced he has a sincere desire to move the lynches off of the people he has defended, because if he did truly want that -- he'd be providing names to move those votes to. Epignosis knows how to influence vote movement, I've seen him do it many times. This kind of half effort is not representative of that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm putting a vote on Scotty.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The trend continues with LoRab: limited opportunities to play the game are spent in self-defense.

And if people keep accusing me, what exactly do you expect me to do?

Also, you seem to ignore that I actually said new things in my last post.

Some players view this differently so it's not the sole point I'm considering, but I do think baddies are more obsessed with answering every accusation than townies are in general. I have gotten into trouble as a bad guy myself for this before.

The new things you said were about a dead player.

I'm going to leave our dialogue here for now. Do with your time whatever you feel is best.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Today is fertbawl day so I'll be off doing that for a while.

[Marmot]

Night 1: I Can't Come Until She Realizes That We Are All Ascending Towards Nothing

Spoiler: show

Night 2: I Like This Mix So Much I Will Mention It in This Title
(or Silence Between Movements)

Spoiler: show

-

The cause of death is important in how we remember a person. My poor Rosa, she was run over by that awful blue machine.

[Scotty]

The other game has ended so I'm putting more focus here.

Not surprised to find JJJ, who I called bad with my 1st post of the game, as voting for me. I assume it's because I haven't been around to answer. Or he's just bad. Can't tell yet.

[triceratopzeuhl]

Why was golden killed by sleep and alfothad instead of by moya and alfothad? any theories?

Do you mean you don't read MP as civilian at all, or you don't have a clear read on him at all?

clear

I also said this when I voted for AP:

I'm voting for him until I see at least an attempt at finding mafia members

would have been easily correctable if he was playing the game

Did you feel this was a demand A Person was ever likely to meet either way?

He posted on day 3 shortly before I made this post, I thought it was possible. Maybe we should have just subbed him out

This one I am not a fan of. I think A Person made it pretty clear he wasn't going to do anything in this game and that your ultimatum was not going to be met.

and yet you voted for him too

[sig]

Rico isn't originally from TS right?

[sig]

Also quick note before I go one of the top posters (JJJ, Sloonie, Golden, and MP) is most likely bad, I just have no clue which one it is. :P

Ok those who are not me, I would say that MP is least likely, sloonei is most likely. Jay in the middle.

[sig]

So N1 Vomp died, we see nothing from him
N2 no death
N3 Golden being killed by Sleep and the SK

So one theory is that the SK was the target N2 and being targeted for Nightkilling activated his power
Mafia/SK missed the kill N2
Kill was blocked

N1 is tricky we have no data on who killed Vomp or his role, so he could in theory have been Moya killed by the SK, I find this to be unlikely.


A Person
Wilgy
INH

are all dead, there is no secret near Moya, however Mladic is one big secret. If we think there was shenanigans I'd bet it was caused by him. Here is the issue though we have no proof whatsoever unless one of these three roles flip again to know if there is a seemer like role. I do think we can gather that we're one mafia down, but who it is we have no clue.