Felt Mafia 2 [ENDGAME]

[Boomslang]

Well, I should vote. Epi makes a great point about Quin going after llama for not posting about the tie, but not DDL. Llama is also right to be concerned about MP's self-vote. As I suggested earlier, he might be trying out a new low-post strategy in this game, but self-voting is just so against his meta... However, I tend to give MP the benefit of the doubt when it comes to real-life stuff.

I guess what keeps echoing in my head is llama's doubt, "Could it be that easy?" when it comes to Quin. I'm ok with a Quin lynch, but I also want to bring a little attention to JJJ, and so I will place a vote there.

[Marmot]

Have you any idea whom you're voting for today, young Marmot?

Not yet, but I'm going to make it count.

If we had changeable votes, I'd vote MP with the hopes of prodding him into involvement.

[Epignosis]

DDL didn't comment on Quin's post either, so what the hell?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... DL#p327252

It's a long one so I just liked back.

I read all that, but it all sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher.

Clear contradiction. Pick a stance. Hopefully pick the one that's true.

I don't understand where there was a contradiction.

And I don't believe you saw me baiting you specifically from that post. You aren't that insightful. You're making yourself look good using hindsight as a weapon. Nah. If I hadn't said anything you'd have no idea what I was thinking.

I don't get this either. Is the expectation here that llama be a mind reader?

And I didn't expect DDL to respond to me. He wasn't in the thread. You were. And you're the only one I saw any baddie tells from.

What are these "baddie tells?" Or am I supposed to read your mind to glean them?

Voting Quin.

[Marmot]

I don't think I've ever seen MP self vote before. He's adamantly against self voting. What do people make of this?

I've seen him do this when he has no time to catch up in a game. I don't remember what his alignment is in these situations though.

[Marmot]

DDL didn't comment on Quin's post either, so what the hell?

What do you mean?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quin's a difficult case. I think a lot of his hunting effort has appeared genuine even if not always agreeable. His treatment of llama this phase strikes me as projection -- applying his own strategic perspective to someone else and finding it suspicious when they don't operate within that framework.

On the other hand, his response to Elohcin's first post this phase remains suspicious, and the timing and language behind his llama vote was significant to both protect DDL and promote the other prevailing wagon.

He's not my preferred lynch. I still want Long Con. I'm not sure anyone else has seen what I'm seeing. That's frustrating but I have no time to try to sell anyone on it now.

I think we could do worse than Quin at least.

[Marmot]

Quin's a difficult case. I think a lot of his hunting effort has appeared genuine even if not always agreeable. His treatment of llama this phase strikes me as projection -- applying his own strategic perspective to someone else and finding it suspicious when they don't operate within that framework.

On the other hand, his response to Elohcin's first post this phase remains suspicious, and the timing and language behind his llama vote was significant to both protect DDL and promote the other prevailing wagon.

He's not my preferred lynch. I still want Long Con. I'm not sure anyone else has seen what I'm seeing. That's frustrating but I have no time to try to sell anyone on it now.

I think we could do worse than Quin at least.

Do you think his suspicion of you is genuine?

[Quin]

Oh, I forgot people were being really wrong today. Oops.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Marmot

I think his suspicion of me has mostly come from places I can understand (like my Day 1 posts about DDL). I would call his equal-opposite reactions to my concerns with the tinfoil theory were more default. It all fits into the mixed bag that is my read on Quin.

[Quin]

Not interested in repeating what I've already said. I'll just give you GTH legacy reads instead.

Boomslang - Moderate bad
Elohcin - Slight civ. There is a 50 percent chance that she is good, a 50 percent chance she is bad. You will NOT ignore this, or I will flip my shit, k.
Epignosis - Slight civ
INH - Moderate civ. Keep pushing as to why he weaned off of his llama read.
3J - Moderate bad
LC - Slight civ
llama - Strong bad
nijuu - Slight bad
Scotty - Slight civ
Sorsha - Moderate civ

[Quin]

Throwing a vote on 3J.

[Quin]

I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?

Yes.

[Marmot]

@Marmot

I think his suspicion of me has mostly come from places I can understand (like my Day 1 posts about DDL). I would call his equal-opposite reactions to my concerns with the tinfoil theory were more default. It all fits into the mixed bag that is my read on Quin.

Alright, what's your GTH read of Quin.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Marmot

I think his suspicion of me has mostly come from places I can understand (like my Day 1 posts about DDL). I would call his equal-opposite reactions to my concerns with the tinfoil theory were more default. It all fits into the mixed bag that is my read on Quin.

Alright, what's your GTH read of Quin.

Civilian.

[Marmot]

@Marmot

I think his suspicion of me has mostly come from places I can understand (like my Day 1 posts about DDL). I would call his equal-opposite reactions to my concerns with the tinfoil theory were more default. It all fits into the mixed bag that is my read on Quin.

Alright, what's your GTH read of Quin.

Civilian.

Would you believe me if I told you I think you're (mafia) teammates?

[Quin]

@Marmot

I think his suspicion of me has mostly come from places I can understand (like my Day 1 posts about DDL). I would call his equal-opposite reactions to my concerns with the tinfoil theory were more default. It all fits into the mixed bag that is my read on Quin.

Alright, what's your GTH read of Quin.

Civilian.

Yet you think we could 'do worse' than a Quin lynch. What does that mean?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Marmot

I think his suspicion of me has mostly come from places I can understand (like my Day 1 posts about DDL). I would call his equal-opposite reactions to my concerns with the tinfoil theory were more default. It all fits into the mixed bag that is my read on Quin.

Alright, what's your GTH read of Quin.

Civilian.

Would you believe me if I told you I think you're (mafia) teammates?

Yes, I believe that you think that. You're wrong.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Marmot

I think his suspicion of me has mostly come from places I can understand (like my Day 1 posts about DDL). I would call his equal-opposite reactions to my concerns with the tinfoil theory were more default. It all fits into the mixed bag that is my read on Quin.

Alright, what's your GTH read of Quin.

Civilian.

Yet you think we could 'do worse' than a Quin lynch. What does that mean?

You're a weaker civilian read than others and despite my doubts I see enough room for you to flip mafia that I won't raise hell about you being lynched -- certainly not when I am unable to give an alternative that has any chance of being lynched at this point.

I want Long Con or Wilgy. I don't know if there are enough votes left on the table to make that possible (people will miss votes).

[Marmot]

@Marmot

I think his suspicion of me has mostly come from places I can understand (like my Day 1 posts about DDL). I would call his equal-opposite reactions to my concerns with the tinfoil theory were more default. It all fits into the mixed bag that is my read on Quin.

Alright, what's your GTH read of Quin.

Civilian.

Yet you think we could 'do worse' than a Quin lynch. What does that mean?

It's a GTH read, I would agree we could do worse than lynching you (like lynching Boomslang for instance).

@Marmot

I think his suspicion of me has mostly come from places I can understand (like my Day 1 posts about DDL). I would call his equal-opposite reactions to my concerns with the tinfoil theory were more default. It all fits into the mixed bag that is my read on Quin.

Alright, what's your GTH read of Quin.

Civilian.

Would you believe me if I told you I think you're (mafia) teammates?

Yes, I believe that you think that. You're wrong.

If you really believe me, then you must be mafia yourself and know that I can genuinely think that, or just have that strong of a civilian read of me. That's what I've deducted from this statement anyway.

[Marmot]

Or am I just outwitting myself?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You're a solid town read. Return to my vote analysis. I believe you.

[Quin]

I feel like I should elaborate on my Boomslang read.

He's come across as disingenuous twice in his cases against me.

The first time, he jumped on LC's theory that I was being insistent by pushing my argument against 3J. This was after I discussed it with LC and even he moved on from that specific element of his argument. He still assures me that he read the dialogue to the end, which clearly isn't true.

The second time, he accused me of backtracking in my theory as to why he survived, even though nobody had expressed suspicion at me for it at the time. Backtracking isn't a thing in that context.

He's not voting me either. He wants to bring attention to 3J, so he's not voting me. Even though he's suspected me more than anybody else in this game. Nah.



I'd call a baddie team of llama, 3J and Boomslang.

[Quin]

All three of them insisted that my hypothesis they role blocked themselves was tinfoil. So now I think that's what happened again.

[Sorsha]

I feel like I should elaborate on my Boomslang read.

He's come across as disingenuous twice in his cases against me.

The first time, he jumped on LC's theory that I was being insistent by pushing my argument against 3J. This was after I discussed it with LC and even he moved on from that specific element of his argument. He still assures me that he read the dialogue to the end, which clearly isn't true.

The second time, he accused me of backtracking in my theory as to why he survived, even though nobody had expressed suspicion at me for it at the time. Backtracking isn't a thing in that context.

He's not voting me either. He wants to bring attention to 3J, so he's not voting me. Even though he's suspected me more than anybody else in this game. Nah.



I'd call a baddie team of llama, 3J and Boomslang.

So you think boomslang just voted for his teammate today?

[Marmot]

All three of them insisted that my hypothesis they role blocked themselves was tinfoil. So now I think that's what happened again.

You think that three mafia teammates all walked into the thread to dispute the same theory, that's got a decent consensus belief around it?

And that Boomslang voted for a teammate yesterday as well as today?

[Quin]

I feel like I should elaborate on my Boomslang read.

He's come across as disingenuous twice in his cases against me.

The first time, he jumped on LC's theory that I was being insistent by pushing my argument against 3J. This was after I discussed it with LC and even he moved on from that specific element of his argument. He still assures me that he read the dialogue to the end, which clearly isn't true.

The second time, he accused me of backtracking in my theory as to why he survived, even though nobody had expressed suspicion at me for it at the time. Backtracking isn't a thing in that context.

He's not voting me either. He wants to bring attention to 3J, so he's not voting me. Even though he's suspected me more than anybody else in this game. Nah.



I'd call a baddie team of llama, 3J and Boomslang.

So you think boomslang just voted for his teammate today?

A-yup.

[Quin]

All three of them insisted that my hypothesis they role blocked themselves was tinfoil. So now I think that's what happened again.

You think that three mafia teammates all walked into the thread to dispute the same theory, that's got a decent consensus belief around it?

And that Boomslang voted for a teammate yesterday as well as today?

A-yup.

[Marmot]

All three of them insisted that my hypothesis they role blocked themselves was tinfoil. So now I think that's what happened again.

You think that three mafia teammates all walked into the thread to dispute the same theory, that's got a decent consensus belief around it?

And that Boomslang voted for a teammate yesterday as well as today?

A-yup.

Would you believe me if I told you I didn't believe that you believe in that assertion at all?

[Quin]

All three of them insisted that my hypothesis they role blocked themselves was tinfoil. So now I think that's what happened again.

You think that three mafia teammates all walked into the thread to dispute the same theory, that's got a decent consensus belief around it?

And that Boomslang voted for a teammate yesterday as well as today?

A-yup.

Would you believe me if I told you I didn't believe that you believe in that assertion at all?

Would you believe me if I told you that I believe you'd believe me in about an hour?

[Marmot]

All three of them insisted that my hypothesis they role blocked themselves was tinfoil. So now I think that's what happened again.

You think that three mafia teammates all walked into the thread to dispute the same theory, that's got a decent consensus belief around it?

And that Boomslang voted for a teammate yesterday as well as today?

A-yup.

Would you believe me if I told you I didn't believe that you believe in that assertion at all?

Would you believe me if I told you that I believe you'd believe me in about an hour?

Would you believe me if I told you that I believe that my disbelief of your belief coupled with Jay's belief in my belief of your belief of his disbelief leads me to believe that I can't believe in either of you?

[Epignosis]

I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?

Yes.

Then you have unreasonable expectations of people.

[Quin]

All three of them insisted that my hypothesis they role blocked themselves was tinfoil. So now I think that's what happened again.

You think that three mafia teammates all walked into the thread to dispute the same theory, that's got a decent consensus belief around it?

And that Boomslang voted for a teammate yesterday as well as today?

A-yup.

Would you believe me if I told you I didn't believe that you believe in that assertion at all?

Would you believe me if I told you that I believe you'd believe me in about an hour?

Would you believe me if I told you that I believe that my disbelief of your belief coupled with Jay's belief in my belief of your belief of his disbelief leads me to believe that I can't believe in either of you?

Would you believe me if I told you that I'm really fucking confused right now?

[Marmot]

My head also hurts.

[Quin]

I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?

Yes.

Then you have unreasonable expectations of people.

Llama wasn't inquisitive enough to ask me for my reads. I'd never once said I civ or scum read either of them. That's not unreasonable.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

All three of them insisted that my hypothesis they role blocked themselves was tinfoil. So now I think that's what happened again.

You think that three mafia teammates all walked into the thread to dispute the same theory, that's got a decent consensus belief around it?

And that Boomslang voted for a teammate yesterday as well as today?

A-yup.

Would you believe me if I told you I didn't believe that you believe in that assertion at all?

Would you believe me if I told you that I believe you'd believe me in about an hour?

Would you believe me if I told you that I believe that my disbelief of your belief coupled with Jay's belief in my belief of your belief of his disbelief leads me to believe that I can't believe in either of you?

I have no idea what this means but I love it.

[Marmot]

Epignosis, how does a counter-wagon on Jay sound?

Interesting enough for you?

Linki:

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, how does a counter-wagon on Jay sound?

Interesting enough for you?

Linki:

I have already rendered my vote, so I do not feel right endorsing the lynch of someone else. If I had wanted 3J out, I would have voted him.

[thellama73]

I'm increasingly willing to believe that 3J has been playing a super-helpful, positive baddie game. Not sold on it, but increasingly willing to believe it.

[Epignosis]

I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?

Yes.

Then you have unreasonable expectations of people.

Llama wasn't inquisitive enough to ask me for my reads. I'd never once said I civ or scum read either of them. That's not unreasonable.

If the objective was that he was supposed to guess that you wanted him to ask you a question, then I have to say you have unreasonable expectations of people in general, and of llama specifically. Llama wasn't going to ask you for no damn reads.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

WIFOM time!

I have never attacked someone with the rage a ferocity I've displayed against Long Con as a bad guy in my life. When I lose my mind with baddie hatred I am a civilian. This is a trait Golden and I largely share, I believe.

[Sorsha]

This Cheese head is happy now

[Quin]

I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?

Yes.

Then you have unreasonable expectations of people.

Llama wasn't inquisitive enough to ask me for my reads. I'd never once said I civ or scum read either of them. That's not unreasonable.

If the objective was that he was supposed to guess that you wanted him to ask you a question, then I have to say you have unreasonable expectations of people in general, and of llama specifically. Llama wasn't going to ask you for no damn reads.

That's because he's bad. Anybody else would've wondered enough about a cryptic as fuck post to ask if they were in his position.

[Marmot]

Epignosis, how does a counter-wagon on Jay sound?

Interesting enough for you?

Linki:

I have already rendered my vote, so I do not feel right endorsing the lynch of someone else. If I had wanted 3J out, I would have voted him.

I really just want your read on him.

You said earlier you were going to operate under the assumption that Jay, llama, Quin, and Long Con were civilian and go from there. Your read of Quin changed; what of the others?

[Epignosis]

I mean, if someone had spoken positively about me before comes in and says he is going to break the tie, I would interpret that to mean that he would break the tie in my favor. No comment would be necessary.

Am I ignorant for thinking this?

Yes.

Then you have unreasonable expectations of people.

Llama wasn't inquisitive enough to ask me for my reads. I'd never once said I civ or scum read either of them. That's not unreasonable.

If the objective was that he was supposed to guess that you wanted him to ask you a question, then I have to say you have unreasonable expectations of people in general, and of llama specifically. Llama wasn't going to ask you for no damn reads.

That's because he's bad. Anybody else would've wondered enough about a cryptic as fuck post to ask if they were in his position.

I just said that I would not have.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm increasingly willing to believe that 3J has been playing a super-helpful, positive baddie game. Not sold on it, but increasingly willing to believe it.

What does this say to you about Quin, who hates my guts?

[Made]

Hello all,
Caught up, but a lot of things read as noise. Here's the what caught my eye:
RE JJJ vs LC ft yung marmot:

Buh? I was talking about whether or not MM's "Llama is evil" was real or jokey. I wasn't accusing you of being bad, and I wasn't implying that MM is Civ. Those are elements you have added in after the fact.

You shouldn't state falsehoods when you're arguing with a person who thoroughly analyzes every word in a game thread over and over. Refer to the highlighted portion and then read your own material:

I didn't take him seriously.

What is your point?

You're pursuing this as though it was a real read. It was a joke read. You should be able to see the difference, and govern yourself accordingly.

If a joke read like that signals that MM is bad to you, then accuse him of that. Don't act like "Well what are we all supposed to think when you say Llama is evil; obviously everyone will think you think Llama is evil!" I don't believe you really think that.

These are clear, undeniable accusations made by you against me.

This is a backtrack.

Unless someone can explain any further significance of this argument and LC's response, the interaction feels more like a doubt than an accusation, and that make this argument feel more like one of semantics rather than one of alignment. I'm not really seeing what JJJ's seeing.

All three of them insisted that my hypothesis they role blocked themselves was tinfoil. So now I think that's what happened again.

I kinda read the original post as tinfoily myself, mostly because Eloh's post didn't seem like a role claim to me.

And having read 16 pages in one sitting, the theory against Quin is kinda lost on me. Is it because of his tinfoil theory??


holy effing linki

[Sorsha]

I think Quin and jj could both be bad so I could put my vote on either of them.

[thellama73]

WIFOM time!

I have never attacked someone with the rage a ferocity I've displayed against Long Con as a bad guy in my life. When I lose my mind with baddie hatred I am a civilian. This is a trait Golden and I largely share, I believe.

Yes, that's a good point, and one of my main sticking points about you. Absent the Long Con fight, I think your gameplay would be textbook active baddie, but you kind of went out on a limb there, which seems civ.

[thellama73]

I'm increasingly willing to believe that 3J has been playing a super-helpful, positive baddie game. Not sold on it, but increasingly willing to believe it.

What does this say to you about Quin, who hates my guts?

I don't know. I need more data. Let's see how Quin flips and proceed from there.

[Quin]

I think Quin and jj could both be bad so I could put my vote on either of them.

Put it on 3J and maybe I won't kill you tonight.