Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

#301

Guys I think I'm feeling severe burnout. The act of compiling posts and dividing quotes and answering questions is feeling like a chore. I might need the occasional pick-me up motivation. Keep me engaged, I'm fading fast!

#302

Hey, sprit, can we unvote without voting elsewhere?

#303

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm open to other map requests, but I want to know how y'all intend to forge a civilian victory in this game if you are entrusted with it.
How is responding to the question "how will you forge a civilian victory in this game?" ever indicative of alignment? It seems to me that the most important factor of these items are getting them into town hands, no?
It's a question directly relevant to one's mindset and motivation. Its promise for alignment-indicative responses is limited as is essentially any spam-phase question, but yanno one has to ask something or another. When we're talking about this specific context, as in who is deserving of receiving an item which presumably can benefit the civilian cause, what kind of question would you ask instead?

Nachomamma8 wrote:I can see a case for Strawhenge (and probably agree now that I think about it), but why nutella?
I liked the way her brain went straight to the most recent example of a pre-game vote akin to the map in this one (her reference to "prefects" stems from a different game here) as she pondered aloud the matter of how to approach the map. It looked authentic.

I wouldn't ask a spam phase question because the answer very likely wouldn't factor into my overall read. I'd just wait to develop a townread and send the map to them, as I did.

I don't think that having an authentic approach to item sending has anything to do with alignment (it's game theory based, and scum can approach those situations honestly regardless of alignment) but I think I saw a nutella post that I liked so this is quickly losing relevance.

#304

Silver Lantern wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Silver Lantern wrote:You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.
In recent memory most of the time votes have been changeable.
Are there commas missing there which can alter the meaning?

Are you saying that "most of the time, votes have been changeable", or is a "time vote" a thing?

Were it only that this hoodie were a time hoodie.

I've highlighted the correct interpretation.

#305

Nachomamma8 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.
Is this fishing?
A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.

That's good. I don't think the type of fishing I was accusing you of is wise.

#306

Golden wrote:Hey, sprit, can we unvote without voting elsewhere?

yea, just type "unvote" with bold and color like you would be doing a normal vote. Or vote for "no lynch" that is basically the same thing

#307

Nacho, you were quieter in Unfortunate Events, and then turned out to be bad. This reminds me much more of your civ game on here (Monkey Island). Do you believe this is a meta tell I should read into, or just a matter of your circumstances at the time of each game?

Unvote

#308

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Hey, guys. Little one deleted the email ap on my phone and I didn't notice. Catching up.

#309

Nachomamma8 wrote:
Soneji wrote: A rather strong reaction to what was a rather tame observation. Wants evidence supporting the accusation but is already dismissing it as a fake argument, therefore backhandedly saying that Quin is scum.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Don't understand how Quin is reading into Sorsha's posts so strongly. Her responses to JJJ pretty plainly state that she would like for her vote to have given the map to a civ and that she doesn't have reason to suspect at the moment that the other girls are mafia.] aubergine
[VOTE:
Can't say I think that overreacting there is a scumtell; seems to me to be a personality thing more than anything although I will grant that the fact they didn't followthrough with Quin suspicion is strange (and, since they're around @Silver Lantern: why didn't you vote Quin after you thought that he was making a fake argument?).] aubergine

[VOTE:

I'm about to jump in the shower so quick answer: where I normally play voting for someone who just placed a vote on you is generally seen as overly defensive and possibly scummy. How's that for irony?

Also since I'm new I was not sure that Quin was tossing a serious accusation or testing my reaction, so I figured the passive aggressive response was in order.] aubergine

#310

Nacho challenging me on a frivolous town read for a reason that he doesn't feel is appropriate is a direct parallel of the hydra game when he was half of Imperium (he was town). Unless the other half did that. My brain morphed every hydra into a single person.

#311

Fredwood wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There are 159 posts in this thread, and 102 of them belong the last four players to make a post plus the host.
To be fair the next two are us new folks. 8 posts is actually pretty good for me this early. I'm not a quiet player by any means but I'm also not a 800 post per game player like yourself.

I will say generating day 1 reads is viewed as kind of pointless where I play. It's always a point of contention on whether or not day 1's should be as useless as it is and whether or not we should have more games start on Night 0. As a result I've gotten in the bad habit of just checking in once on Day 1 just to say hello.

Additionally it is interested in seeing the push on civ reads. Usually I'm trying to play the fine line between appearing town and scum. If you're too town you usually get killed early. I will see how this develops.

I don't have the time to make offtopic posts but I see this a lot in Newbie Games and want to offer an opinion that maybe changes your view here -

Day 1 is a very important day for town because it has huge potential to swing the game against scum and is very important as far as "developing initial impressions" go. If you have a weak Day 1 where people don't post because they don't think nothing is alignment indicative, you will have a weak Day 2 - investigative roles can provide information yes but they don't exist in all games and while nightkills offer a limited bit of information (a decent amount in some circles), but in general they're a bad way to find scum because it's something that is completely controlled by scum and the number for reasons why scum kill people are pretty large and so it's easy to fuck up NKA.

I'd get into more of it right now if I wasn't in a rush but in a nutshell making Day 1s useful is one of the first steps people take before they go from okay players to good ones.

#312

Silver Lantern, a little tidbit to augment your understanding of this alien land:

When I played on HCR with y'all, one thing I immediately noticed was a significant focus upon night actions, a focus so sharp that it trumped behavioral assessment in the thread. In this case, even in this closed setup we have here, I think you can safely anticipate the exact opposite. You may even have a unique advantage compared to many Syndicate regulars in this regard -- this setup is probably more like what you're used to than what we're used to.

#313

Golden wrote:Nacho, you were quieter in Unfortunate Events, and then turned out to be bad. This reminds me much more of your civ game on here (Monkey Island). Do you believe this is a meta tell I should read into, or just a matter of your circumstances at the time of each game?

Unvote

Circumstances.
Unfortunate events was unfortunately a very weak showing from me.

The people who are good at reading me tend to read me by tone/strength of my scumreads; my tone as town/mafia is quite different (although most people struggle with picking up on it) and I tend to overextend myself as scum with some of my mislynch pushes.

#314

Silver Lantern wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Soneji wrote: A rather strong reaction to what was a rather tame observation. Wants evidence supporting the accusation but is already dismissing it as a fake argument, therefore backhandedly saying that Quin is scum.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Don't understand how Quin is reading into Sorsha's posts so strongly. Her responses to JJJ pretty plainly state that she would like for her vote to have given the map to a civ and that she doesn't have reason to suspect at the moment that the other girls are mafia.] aubergine
[VOTE:
Can't say I think that overreacting there is a scumtell; seems to me to be a personality thing more than anything although I will grant that the fact they didn't followthrough with Quin suspicion is strange (and, since they're around @Silver Lantern: why didn't you vote Quin after you thought that he was making a fake argument?).] aubergine
[VOTE:

I'm about to jump in the shower so quick answer: where I normally play voting for someone who just placed a vote on you is generally seen as overly defensive and possibly scummy. How's that for irony?

Also since I'm new I was not sure that Quin was tossing a serious accusation or testing my reaction, so I figured the passive aggressive response was in order.] aubergine

[VOTE:
Makes sense, thanks for the response.] aubergine

#315

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'd get into more of it right now if I wasn't in a rush but in a nutshell making Day 1s useful is one of the first steps people take before they go from okay players to good ones.

I just got done yelling at an entire forum about this! Day 1 is crucial and I hate to see it treated like it's a joke.

This is hardly relevant to the current proceedings, just felt like saying it.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #316

Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.
Is this fishing?
A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.
That's good. I don't think the type of fishing I was accusing you of is wise.

What's going on here?

What are the two types of fishing you guys are referring to? the original quote seems pretty straightforward to me, so Golden what did you think he was fishing for and Nacho what do you mean by that answer? I feel really dumb right now but I feel like I'm missing something in subtext here and I don't like missing things.

I'm also confused about a couple other things I'll get to in another post

#317

Fredwood wrote:Additionally it is interesting* to see the push on appearing overly Civilian*

I guess that conditioning has made me not trust people who appear blatantly town (CIV). TBF I really only trust myself, and even the, just on special occasions.

Fredwood civ read continues to solidify.
Which, based on his reasoning here, means I should trust him less.
Hmmm...

insertnamehere wrote:
Scotty wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:North-east because I like a little of everything.

Lynch: Scotty

His support of me in the map business looked fake. Also I appreciate those who entrusted the map to me, I will do my best to live up the appropriate standard.
I'm sorry it looked fake.

It's because it was.

I voted for INH to receive the map
Cheers, although it was ultimately in vain as I am 100% mapless.

I will say that I dislike very much the fact that three different people all claimed to possess the map. I voted for MM, so his claim at least has some legitimacy in my eyes.

Going into Day 1, 3J and Golden both get the squinty-raised-eyebrow treatment from me. I'm not willing to vote for them yet (as we have 60 GODDAMN HOURS to do so), but I'm gonna be watching their posts.

Golden wrote:No map for me

I've never been voted to get anything like that. Maybe one day.

Golden wrote:I wouldn't have chosen to say this in a vacuum, but since I already said I didn't get the map...

I did get the map. I was just impatient and assumed the PM had gone elsewhere.

It doesn't feel massively helpful, but it does enable me to turn the compass directions on this poll (and others) into specific locations. If we go to a location that turns out to be favourable, I might be able to help us get back there. It looks like you can't get everywhere from everywhere, though. For now, it's meaningless to me.

Thanks to those who trusted me. It genuinely is the first time I've been elected to get one of these! I assumed it had gone to Jay.
This little flippity flop especially struck me the wrong way.

Bad post, don't like it at all.

There was some concern that claiming to have the map could paint a target on people's backs, so a civilian claiming map when they don't have it obscures who has it and thus protects the civilian with a map. I don't like your push on JJJ/Golden for a couple reasons: 1) it's likelier than both of them have the map than Marmot even though you talked about voting Marmot; multiple people talked about voting JJJ and Golden makes a good target by rep alone, 2) it's an extraordinarily shallow thing to hammer on that has nothing to do with alignment which is something I think you're aware of.

#318

nutella wrote:
Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.
Is this fishing?
A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.
That's good. I don't think the type of fishing I was accusing you of is wise.
What's going on here? What are the two types of fishing you guys are referring to? the original quote seems pretty straightforward to me, so Golden what did you think he was fishing for and Nacho what do you mean by that answer? I feel really dumb right now but I feel like I'm missing something in subtext here and I don't like missing things.

I'm also confused about a couple other things I'll get to in another post

Was cryptic for a reason, but I'll be happy to respond after a certain player responds/doesn't respond if it still tugs at you.

#319

Returning to Sorsha:

I think some of the discussion of her content has become more specific than is necessary to qualify a meaningful read. That's not critical, as it's sometimes a natural result of deliberate, intensive digging in an environment of minimal content (as the thread was at the time). I would describe her post history as follows:

I see no immediate reason to judge her posts as being town-inclined. None of them have nudged me in that direction for any small reason. I do believe that there is space to describe her posts as mafia-inclined though, even if it isn't necessarily compelling. I would say that she has kept herself at a bit of a distance, even when she has been speaking directly to people (primarily to me). She has received questions and she has answered them, and she has made observations of game events -- but always with a tone of neutrality that does not readily promote further dialogue. This has her trending in the negative direction for me.

link for reference

#320

speedchuck wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There are 159 posts in this thread, and 102 of them belong the last four players to make a post plus the host.
Yeah, that's a thing.
For people like me, this is going to be a lot of catch up reading after the weekends.
I have half a mind to get my mafia buddies to kill all of you gabbers.

Also, I'm fairly sure that it's too late to say that I have the map. But we should definitely go east. We should get no closer to the Yanks.

I swear I'll learn your names and help lynch one of you during the week.

All my love.

Liked this post and just realize we have a little more time than I thought we did.

Tempted to go to sleep since I've already found scum, but will attempt plugging away so I have less to catchup on during my fun filled day tomorrow.

#321

insertnamehere wrote:I have no problem with people lying in order to protect the person with the actual map.

The part I have a problem with is fake-claimers taking votes away from the person with the REAL map, causing us to go places we don't want to go.

None have claimed that Map information told them which way to go, which is why your push is as flawed as it is but suddenly I've lost confidence in a vote I haven't even made yet.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Bad Guys R In Here:

Quin
Long Con
JOH
DrWilgy
Sorsha
speedchuck
Scotty
Elohcin
DFaraday
Dyslexicon
Nachomamma

Yeah it's a huge list. Don't care.

Spoiler: show

Remove me and speedchuck and maaaaaybe Quin and you're three steps closer to solving the game!
Why is Marmot a townread?

Dyslexicon slip is fairly compelling. I reiterate the call for no majority yet, but think that people who are afraid of a hammer when we still need 7 votes to get there is probably overly cautious.

Vote: Dyslexicon

#322

nutella wrote:
Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.
Is this fishing?
A type of fishing, certainly, but not the type you're accusing me of.
That's good. I don't think the type of fishing I was accusing you of is wise.
What's going on here? What are the two types of fishing you guys are referring to? the original quote seems pretty straightforward to me, so Golden what did you think he was fishing for and Nacho what do you mean by that answer? I feel really dumb right now but I feel like I'm missing something in subtext here and I don't like missing things.

I'm also confused about a couple other things I'll get to in another post

Nacho, I don't understand your fishing, but does it hurt at all for me to explain to nutella the kind I was thinking of?

#323

Long Con wrote:I do, however, think the possible Dyslexicon-slip to be much more juicy. The INH vote is just a pressure-vote... if Slex can't explain this 5-knowledge, then the vote cast would be quite a bit more serious.

My eyeball is tweaking at this post. That highlighted bit looks inauthentic to me, in that Long Con is sort of sacrificing the proposed value of his vote (the pressure is inherently decreased when the vote is declared to be about pressure) just so he can heap on with the Dyslexicon slip. Whether Dizzy is scum or not, Long Con's support with this language he employed looks like a player who feels the need to step in rather than a player who has a personal investment in developing his understanding.

#324

Other people that could die are Soneji for his perspective on Silver Lantern who is painfully and unmistakably obvtown, and Scotty for lame presence this game when he had awesome presence as town last game and underwhelming presence as scum.

I think Strawhenge joins Silver Lantern and Fred for my "bet the farm" townreads, feel pretty good about the big three in Quin/JJJ/Golden so far although incidentally those three is where I'm the most cautious in my townreading.

Also townreading nutella and INH and probably other people to a degree less than the SUPATOWN group but more than the big three. Am sure that I'm missing things but too tired to figure out what, fading out now.

#325

Nachomamma8 wrote:Remove me and speedchuck and maaaaaybe Quin and you're three steps closer to solving the game!

I could consider all of the above.

Nachomamma8 wrote:Why is Marmot a townread?

Because he pretended to have the map before anyone else did. I appreciate the cover.

This is to say that it is possible, under certain conditions, for me to not have a town read on Marmot.

#326

Golden thought that I was role/item fishing, what I was doing is fishing for reactions.

I thought that it was possible someone could think that I had slipped knowledge of JJJ not having the map if I said that I knew he was faking it/thought it was possible there was someone who would push back strongly against me for item-fishing. I don't think that the initial comment was harmful because all I gave was an unsubstantiated opinion that may or may not be a false one; the person who I was interested in responding in particular was INH because I thought his map perspective was weird but have cooled on that after his follow up pushes. I'm shutting the test down because people have probably talked about it too much for it to be useful anymore.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #327

OK, so the other thing I was confused about was the whole deal between Silver Lantern/Quin/Soneji/Nacho. I've reread enough to get the gist of it but I still feel like I'm missing a couple things, namely (a) why Nacho immediately placed a vote on Soneji just because he disagreed with his vote/didn't think SL was suspicious (? at least that's how I interpreted that?) and (b) in SL's original overreactive response to Quin, did he ever actually express suspicion of Quin for it? Because I didn't get that impression, but Soneji thought he was "backhandedly" accusing Quin of being scum and Nacho wondered why SL didn't go ahead and vote for Quin. And SL's response about that just now doesn't really elucidate for me whether or not he did find Quin suspicious in the first place and/or still does.

Sorry if the wording of this post is a mess/hard to follow, but that's how I've felt about much of this discussion anyway, so my stream of consciousness here may reflect that

linki: Again, nacho, why do you think Soneji is automatically bad for suspecting SL from that one post? That's still the only post Soneji has made in the game, and I admit I find it a little odd that he found it worthy of an immediate vote (but that could just be a style thing/excusable by it being a changeable vote game), but he could come back any time and clarify or revise his viewpoint. That you're so hellbent against him based on a single and his only post in the game is a little odd to me. I do have a good read on you so far, I'm just having trouble understanding a few of your perspectives.

One other thing that's been bothering me -- in that line about reasons for mafia to kill people, it sounded like you identify "posing a threat" and "possessing an item" as two separate things. Do you not think the latter could easily constitute the former? Later (re: LC) you seem to agree/go along with the notion that a trusted civ gaining an item gets a target painted on their back, so you must understand that a civ who possesses an item (that could contain valuable information that could threaten the mafia) is a threat to the mafia, and would be a likely target for a kill. So why did you say that original thing, where you seemed to be almost imposing a dichotomy or at least a hierarchy between the two, rather than acknowledging that one could be a reason for the other? Or did I misunderstand it?

#328

Sorry. I did think you could be fishing for a reaction from me. It seems I'm in the habit of shutting down peoples tests these days.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #329

Nachomamma8 wrote:Golden thought that I was role/item fishing, what I was doing is fishing for reactions.

I thought that it was possible someone could think that I had slipped knowledge of JJJ not having the map if I said that I knew he was faking it/thought it was possible there was someone who would push back strongly against me for item-fishing. I don't think that the initial comment was harmful because all I gave was an unsubstantiated opinion that may or may not be a false one; the person who I was interested in responding in particular was INH because I thought his map perspective was weird but have cooled on that after his follow up pushes. I'm shutting the test down because people have probably talked about it too much for it to be useful anymore.

Still don't really follow, but ok.

#330

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Silver Lantern, a little tidbit to augment your understanding of this alien land:

When I played on HCR with y'all, one thing I immediately noticed was a significant focus upon night actions, a focus so sharp that it trumped behavioral assessment in the thread. In this case, even in this closed setup we have here, I think you can safely anticipate the exact opposite. You may even have a unique advantage compared to many Syndicate regulars in this regard -- this setup is probably more like what you're used to than what we're used to.

Can you explain how this focus works? I imagine the only public night actions revealed are the kills... are you saying people instantly come out saying, "I was blocked", "I got a message", etc?

#331

Number of games out of 100 that nutella makes that post and is scum:

0.03

Great Day 1 so far.

#332

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:Remove me and speedchuck and maaaaaybe Quin and you're three steps closer to solving the game!
I could consider all of the above.

Nachomamma8 wrote:Why is Marmot a townread?
Because he pretended to have the map before anyone else did. I appreciate the cover.

This is to say that it is possible, under certain conditions, for me to not have a town read on Marmot.

It is possible that he did it in the hopes that a noob with the map would have disputed his claim and painted a target on their back. Probably way too obvious a play though.

Plus what are the chances a noob would have gotten the map? Still a scum Marmot could have anticipated that sort of bolstering response from a veteran such as yourself to help him appear as town. I like that theory more.

#333

Long Con wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Silver Lantern, a little tidbit to augment your understanding of this alien land:

When I played on HCR with y'all, one thing I immediately noticed was a significant focus upon night actions, a focus so sharp that it trumped behavioral assessment in the thread. In this case, even in this closed setup we have here, I think you can safely anticipate the exact opposite. You may even have a unique advantage compared to many Syndicate regulars in this regard -- this setup is probably more like what you're used to than what we're used to.
Can you explain how this focus works? I imagine the only public night actions revealed are the kills... are you saying people instantly come out saying, "I was blocked", "I got a message", etc?

I mean that in the HCR game I played, most of the regulars primarily used their role powers to drive their hunting efforts. The environment there is one where role claiming and infodumping are the norm, quite unlike The Syndicate. It reminded me of old-time RYM games. Their setups feature very different alignment ratios though to account for the fundamental differences in rules and culture.

What does this mean to you?

#334

Silver Lantern wrote:It is possible that he did it in the hopes that a noob with the map would have disputed his claim and painted a target on their back. Probably way too obvious a play though.

Plus what are the chances a noob would have gotten the map? Still a scum Marmot could have anticipated that sort of bolstering response from a veteran such as yourself to help him appear as town. I like that theory more.

I don't think your "noob" theory is likely. There's no reason for a scum Marmot to anticipate a noob receiving the map.

The other theory is possible. I don't tend to operate with "possibles" though, certainly not on Day 1. I prefer to focus on "probables", and that's where I stand with Marmot for now.

#335

Okay, may as well get this out of the way cause I see this will lead to more questions and inquiries, which is fine.

Where Fredwood and I usually play (along with JoH) we rely heavily on night power information. And in addition, (try not to have a conniption NM8) we rarely even pressure someone on D1.

We don't do the whole "scum hunting" you guys do, where you analyze ad naseum everything someone said, and we certainly don't do it until later in the game where there are some vote trains to analyze and autopsies to help us out. This entire culture of "what's your read?" and "townreading" while it makes sense to me why you use it (as a playstyle), and I admit it is probably the stronger way to play, is pretty foreign to us. It will probably take a few games before we are comfortable with the lingo and the process to be honest.

None of this post is meant to debate anyone or start a dispute over what style of play is better, I concede that the more aggressive style here probably is, though many players on our regular forum are awfully casual mafia players.

And Nutella, no, I did not find Quin suspicious in the first place, as I said I was unclear of what his intention was, so I just responded with a passive aggressive post which I figured would probably be handled non-confrontational by someone who did not have bad intentions in the first place.

I suppose I do not have a scum read on Quin. Am I doing this right?

#336

Silver Lantern wrote:None of this post is meant to debate anyone or start a dispute over what style of play is better, I concede that the more aggressive style here probably is, though many players on our regular forum are awfully casual mafia players.

Different cultures breed different skills, and it's good to have y'all here with your unique experiences behind you.

#337

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Fredwood wrote:It's my first game, I deserve a map. It was rather difficult to sign up and meet new people.
Fredwood's four posts are only marginally relevant, but I still react positively. This in particular, where he calls for the map, pleases me considering the personality he conveyed in the sign-up thread:

Fredwood wrote:Thanks. Jack and Silver are the only two names I recognize been competing with them from anywhere from 5 to 10 years. I'm not a proper representation of the talent pool, I'm not very good (false humility), going to have to find a way to figure out how games are played here.
If there's any truth to the highlighted portion, I'd anticipate a civilian Fredwood would be a lot more comfortable doing that right off the bat than a mafioso Fredwood in this foreign environment. This read can be qualified with a little insight from those people who have played with Fredwood before -- please tell me what you think of this perspective.

Fred's usually willing to try new things and mess around a bit early on. Not sure if Silver weighed in on it but I get a null read on the idea.

#338

Silver Lantern wrote:Hi everyone. Apologies for dumb questions ahead of time, I will be asking them all game and for games to come too.

DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP, I REPEAT, DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP.

Alright, now that I got the reverse psychology argument out of the way, should we try to coordinate the poll votes, or would that be against the spirit of the game? And would there be a benefit in doing so? I am guessing not much aside from pissing off the mod.

You guys call the mod the host here from what I gather, right?

What is BTSC?

What is Civ or Civilian? Is that like a regular townie?

I hope you guys gave Silver the map.

How is he gonna find anything, let alone scum without one?

Cause he's bad at mafia.

There's probably a better map joke to be had but I'm not that funny. Silver's actually pretty solid.

#339

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Silver Lantern wrote:Hi everyone. Apologies for dumb questions ahead of time, I will be asking them all game and for games to come too.

DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP, I REPEAT, DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP.

Alright, now that I got the reverse psychology argument out of the way, should we try to coordinate the poll votes, or would that be against the spirit of the game? And would there be a benefit in doing so? I am guessing not much aside from pissing off the mod.

You guys call the mod the host here from what I gather, right?

What is BTSC?

What is Civ or Civilian? Is that like a regular townie?
I hope you guys gave Silver the map.

How is he gonna find anything, let alone scum without one?

Cause he's bad at mafia.

There's probably a better map joke to be had but I'm not that funny. Silver's actually pretty solid.

He was able to find the email well enough.

I'm not one to use emoticons but in this instance, if I were to use one, I'd use the one labeled slick and then everyone would post the omg one in response because that was a sick burn.

#340

And for my next trick, I will ignore Fred's last post.

Currently reading Silver, Jtrips as slight town, Scotty and Sorsha as slight scum. Might change those reads when I get further. Like Silver's growling at Quin. Dislike Scotty's fake read and redirect thereof. Dislike Sorsha's two almost random map nominees and defense thereof. Like Jimmy pointing it out.

Wilgy and Marmot are being amusing. Null read so far.

#341

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Long Con wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Silver Lantern, a little tidbit to augment your understanding of this alien land:

When I played on HCR with y'all, one thing I immediately noticed was a significant focus upon night actions, a focus so sharp that it trumped behavioral assessment in the thread. In this case, even in this closed setup we have here, I think you can safely anticipate the exact opposite. You may even have a unique advantage compared to many Syndicate regulars in this regard -- this setup is probably more like what you're used to than what we're used to.
Can you explain how this focus works? I imagine the only public night actions revealed are the kills... are you saying people instantly come out saying, "I was blocked", "I got a message", etc?
I mean that in the HCR game I played, most of the regulars primarily used their role powers to drive their hunting efforts. The environment there is one where role claiming and infodumping are the norm, quite unlike The Syndicate. It reminded me of old-time RYM games. Their setups feature very different alignment ratios though to account for the fundamental differences in rules and culture.

What does this mean to you?

I think it means I don't have to feel as intimidated by people from another forum as I usually do. Sometimes in the past when serious Mafia folks have come here, I feel like such a bush-league amateur. If these guys are more casual players, then I can relax a little.

And to them I say, don't worry about feeling intimidated here, we're pretty cool, I think. We're not going to judge or bully.

#342

I also want to ask, not for the first or second time, what exactly POE is.

#343

Dyslexicon wrote:We have five scum to catch, and I only have three scum reads so far. Who hasn't posted yet? Let's kill them first. \o/

1. Naming the number of scum (if a CF game, haha)
2. Naming number of scumreads but not giving them (unhelpful)
3. Suggesting killing lurkers less than two days after the game started
4. Breaking everything in the most obvious way possible, then lurking.

*checks to see if jesters are in the game*
*nope*

Um.

*looks at Dyslexicon's profile*

I guess this might be a legit slip? Like, it seemed so obvious that I recoiled after reading it. Can't think of anything else it could be, though.

POE: Process Of Elimination
Example -
Possibilities: A B and C
One has to be true (or a mafia)
A and B are not true
So C is true by elimination

#344

Long Con wrote:I also want to ask, not for the first or second time, what exactly POE is.

I will spend exactly one post in this game describing this concept, and this is it. I'd prefer to avoid the gigantic waste of space that it has become in other games.

POE ~~> process of elimination

This represents attempting to solve the game by finding town reads and removing them from the lynch pool, continuing as such until there are so few options left that the mafia team is either inherently discovered or narrowed to a preferably small portion of the roster.

Sometimes this also describes a concerted teamwork effort engaged by multiple players cooperatively, allowing for voting blocs, cover, and free release of information as necessary to promote further reduction of the suspect pool.

When I used the term, I was exclusively referring to the former. It's my Day 1 bread and butter.

#345

Long Con wrote:I also want to ask, not for the first or second time, what exactly POE is.

Specifically, it's the method of trying to agree as a group that certain people shouldn't be lynched on that day (because they have a relatively consensus town read, are mechanically cleared etc) and then lynching from the remaining pool of people only.

It's dangerous to rely on it absolutely (because a baddie could get into your 'town' list), but it's actually a pretty good tactic for catching baddies, provided that you continually re-evaluate whether you should have actually removed person A or person B from the pool.

Put another way, it's the idea of declaring town reads and not lynching them, instead of declaring bad reads and lynching them.

#346

Thanks guys... I actually thought it was a process called "Predict, Observe, Explain".

I don't know where I picked that up, but the other times I have asked about it no one answered.

I thought my way was something I could get on board with. Sometimes I like to imagine what I think baddies would do, and watch for someone acting that way, and go after them.

That's the LCPOE.

I'm normally against broadcasting town reads, due to putting targets on people. There's exceptions though... as in, I don't always follow my own rules on that front.

#347

The idea is that it creates whack a mole - create enough strong town reads, and it's not really target painting any more. You can even create a strong town group that steamrolls (this is what happens in the mafia champs last year - inh and rico, that's for your drinking game!)

#348

Hey LC, it's Day 1 of a Mafia game and I have stated some grievances about you.

right here

#349

Fredwood wrote:Additionally it is interesting* to see the push on appearing overly Civilian*

I guess that conditioning has made me not trust people who appear blatantly town (CIV). TBF I really only trust myself, and even the, just on special occasions.

I think there are two reasons for this.

1) There are lots of misdirection/cloak powers on hcrealms

2) There is a clear skill gab between the top...let's say four players and the rest at any given point

This means that the "most town" players could just be bad night results or good players pulling the wool over your eyes, hence the inherit distrust of early trusted players in hcrealms meta. The mafia "kill confirmed townies" meta reinforces this. I'm glad we've moved off the "target skilled players early" meta and onto "who hasn't died on night one in awhile" meta but it doesn't undo points 1 and 2.

I found the mafia kill targets in Unfortunate Events (my only other Syndicate game) totally perplexing. Not sure what to expect here.

#350

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Fredwood wrote:Additionally it is interesting* to see the push on appearing overly Civilian*

I guess that conditioning has made me not trust people who appear blatantly town (CIV). TBF I really only trust myself, and even the, just on special occasions.
I think there are two reasons for this.

1) There are lots of misdirection/cloak powers on hcrealms

2) There is a clear skill gab between the top...let's say four players and the rest at any given point

This means that the "most town" players could just be bad night results or good players pulling the wool over your eyes, hence the inherit distrust of early trusted players in hcrealms meta. The mafia "kill confirmed townies" meta reinforces this. I'm glad we've moved off the "target skilled players early" meta and onto "who hasn't died on night one in awhile" meta but it doesn't undo points 1 and 2.

I found the mafia kill targets in Unfortunate Events (my only other Syndicate game) totally perplexing. Not sure what to expect here.

Yeah I agree with this analysis. Heh, I thought you had been playing here for like a year for some reason.

How would you Rate this game?