[END] Avant-Garde Mafia 2

[triceratopzeuhl]

Now, here's something from Day 0 that I'm shocked that no one caught:

I'm going with my gut and guessing that the "resident" ordeal is reverse psychology. So I'm reversing the reverse psychology and voting for pluto.

I'm going with my gut and guessing that the "resident" ordeal is reverse reverse psychology. So I'm reversing the reverse revere reverse psychology and voting for the sun.

These two posts were consecutive. I don't know either of these players off the top of my head unless they went by other usernames. If they're new, I suspect it's possible that they were talking about it in chat and this was the result. I just find it awfully strange. Unless they were replying to each other?
I don't know it jsut felt wrong.

Probably because I copy-pasted his post and changed it to match my own vote. Day 0 votes never have any reason behind them, least of all when we have no real context like in this game

[Kate]

Welcome Dom! RIP Vomps. I really had no other idea who to vote for.

I think I shall reread the Bea lynch day and see if I can't come up with any of her teammates or at least get a ping I may have missed on that day.

[Dom]

Hey rabbit, I heard your "bank" might need a bailout.

Just wanted to say this as I catch up:

Excuse me, DH? For someone so suspicious of all aggressive people, you are pretty freaking aggressive. This post just struck me as od. Not only is it pretty aggressive, but it's kind of the type of thing a baddie might do to try and get everyone to trust them; say I told you so!

[juliets]

I forgot to say Welcome Dom!

[Flyin' High]

OMG Dom!!!! Welcome!

Bye Roxy--I'm sorry for your loss.

RIP Vomps. That is a truly sucky result. And I don't want to kick a civvie when they're already down, but I just don't understand the not defending himself!

I'm feeling a bit better today and am back at work, so hopefully I'll have some time to do some reading back on people since so far we've been way off.

What do people think about the possibility of other members of the Resident's team being among the rabbit voters on Day 2 now that we've lynched two of them and gotten two civvies in return?

Here's the Day 2 voting order again with the rabbit voters highlighted (I crossed off Vompatti and Mr. Droopy):
1. axxon (LoRab) 1
2. Epignosis (The Truth) 1
3. triceratops (SVS) 1
4. The Truth (SVS) 2
5. Vompatti (rabbit) 1
6. DH (rabbit) 2
7. jokreher (bea) 1
8. Aces (rabbit) 3
9. Kate (bea) 2
10. LT (bea) 3
11. SVS (bea) 4
12. LoRab (triceratops) 1
13. Illyria (chaindeath) 1
14. chaindeath (rabbit) 4
15. Mr. Droopy (rabbit) 5
16. insertnamehere (bea) 5
17. Flyin' High (bea) 6
18. DisgruntledPorcupine (bea) 7
19. Captain Bunny Killer (rabbit) 6
21. Boomslang (bea) 8
20. rabbit (bea) 9

I find it hard to believe that none of Bea's teammates attempted to save her, but I also don't want to keep lynching those rabbit voters on a chance. Thoughts on this issue?

I'm also going to take some time to read back through INH and DH since DH is clearly frustrated and feeling like his posts are being ignored.

[Dom]

Now, here's something from Day 0 that I'm shocked that no one caught:

I'm going with my gut and guessing that the "resident" ordeal is reverse psychology. So I'm reversing the reverse psychology and voting for pluto.

I'm going with my gut and guessing that the "resident" ordeal is reverse reverse psychology. So I'm reversing the reverse revere reverse psychology and voting for the sun.

These two posts were consecutive. I don't know either of these players off the top of my head unless they went by other usernames. If they're new, I suspect it's possible that they were talking about it in chat and this was the result. I just find it awfully strange. Unless they were replying to each other?
I don't know it jsut felt wrong.

Probably because I copy-pasted his post and changed it to match my own vote. Day 0 votes never have any reason behind them, least of all when we have no real context like in this game

I find your response far more strange than the original offense
Not that strange but still...

(caught up now holy shit)
But why so dismissive? "That has no reason behind it"
You copy pasted it? From a chat room? I dunno.... just seems ood to me.

DH seems ood 2

[Tangrowth]

ATTENTION:

The ROLES section has been updated with information from the Books of Knowledge.

[Dom]

wat

[Flyin' High]

ATTENTION:

The ROLES section has been updated with information from the Books of Knowledge.

Holy guacamole @ those new secrets!

[Kate]

Based on this alone, FH, I would say CBK is the most deserving of a reread.

[Kate]

Based on this alone, FH, I would say CBK is the most deserving of a reread.

Sorry, that was way linki'd to FH's last post.

[Kate]

Hmmmm, I wonder why the red and blue secrets were revealed but not the purple...

[Flyin' High]

Based on this alone, FH, I would say CBK is the most deserving of a reread.

Yes--Captain Bunny Killer is definitely a priority on my list of people to read through again.

[juliets]

Based on this alone, FH, I would say CBK is the most deserving of a reread.

I agree.

[Dom]

CBK was a Rabbit voter right?

[Kate]

Yes. One of the last to vote and voted either when the vote was tied 6-6 or when Bea was ahead by one.

[Kate]

Also, Chaindeath voted 4th for Rabbit when Bea was at 4. So, he tied it up.

[Dom]

Yes. One of the last to vote and voted either when the vote was tied 6-6 or when Bea was ahead by one.

Also, Chaindeath voted 4th for Rabbit when Bea was at 4. So, he tied it up.

Very interesting. Thank you, Kate. Some of this blends in when you're catching up.

[reywaS]

Dom!! Nice to have you here!

[juliets]

CBK was a Rabbit voter right?

Yes. Check out FH's post above. CBK was the 6th rabbit voter which makes it look like she was trying to save bea, a baddie that they voted out that day. (I say they because I'm also a replacement and wasn't in the game then.)

[Flyin' High]

I just read back through CBK's posts again (there aren't very many so it took hardly any time). I am going to quote some of the posts.

Day 2:

Ugh Torn again. I was suspicious of SVS at first too, but not becuase it looked like she was upset about a killed teammate (I think someone said that). It just seemed odd how surprised she was over the strange NK, like it was a little for show. But since I don't know hardly anyone here, I thought I would see what others thought of it. I don't know.

But DH made some interesting observations about rabbit. Of course, that would be going off of what someone else claims is normal for rabbit.

She starts off by mentioning her suspicion of SVS. This is also the first post where she mentions rabbit and it is to say that she finds DH's observations interesting (at the time of this post, bea had received 2 votes, rabbit had 3).

Hmm. I don't know if I should feel more suspicious of Vomp or rabbit from these personal reasons. I'm not trying to drag out a response from you on this, but anyone else think that sounds like inside information?

Points against rabbit increase.

When she made this post, bea was up to 6 votes and rabbit had 5.

Well, rabbit it is. I'm heading out to a friend's house, aka the land of no internet, so I can't wait to watch more.

Then 10 minutes later she votes for rabbit giving him his 6th vote (Bea had 7 by this point).

Day 3:
Her next post starts off with a quick defense of her rabbit vote (DH's case), then quickly switches to why she's suspicious of SVS(viewtopic.php?p=2221#p2221). Then her next 2 posts are solely about SVS (viewtopic.php?p=2241#p2241 and viewtopic.php?p=2246#p2246).

But then her last vote in the thread when she voted in the Day 3 lynch was this:

Well, friends, I'm in a bit of pickle. I'm going to bed and getting up at 5am to ride in a car for 11ish hours. I believe the vote will have passed, and I still have two pages of posts I was unable to catch up on (I was packing and playing with my niece today). I'm afraid this will look really bad for me, but I will not be able to respond to anything and I have to vote early.

As I already explained, I was suspicious of both SVS and rabbit. You can see in my posts today that I was still trying to feel out SVS. I was definitely side-tracked by rabbit yesterday, because I was torn between the two (something I posted long before the lynch came down). I am still torn honestly, but some people were pretty convincing that she was acting normally. So, I will just stick with my rabbit vote.

Despite focusing much more on SVS in her suspicions, she votes for rabbit again. And my theory on that is that she didn't want it to look like she only voted rabbit to save bea on Day 2, so she had to "stick with [her] rabbit vote." She also says she was torn between the two, but the first time she mentioned SVS was also the first time she mentioned rabbit. Then only mentions rabbit again during the actual Day 2 lynch phase.

[reywaS]

After this last lynch and the comments immediately afterward, I'm getting a little suspicious of a few people....

I'm getting more and more suspicious of DH because of what Dom pointed out and the fact that he's been acting so sure of himself about these "bandwagons".

Another shitty bandwagon ended in a civvie lynch?

Just wanted to say: nailed it. Maybe a bit more independent thought next lynch?

These two posts do not seem like they are coming from a civvie tbh. The "I told you so" seems more like something a baddie would say to gain some civvie credit. The comments also seem more like that are intended to divide us even further....not constructive IMO.

[reywaS]

Interesting thoughts on CBK as well.

[juliets]

FH, your case was very good and I see those same issues when looking at her posts. The fact that she only talks about SVS and then votes for rabbit is really odd but i can see someone doing that to "stick" to a vote they made before that was a save vote.

Reywas, I have to think a little more on DH. DH is making me feel a little weird but I think it's because of his tone, the kind of know-it-all tone, than anything else. That tone though is how DH posts in games where he's civv and games where he's bad so I can't say that I find him suspicious without something else. I re-read his posts yesterday but in the context of his INH suspicion so I'll look again at his posts today (game day) to see if anything hits me.

[Dom]

I think it'll be interesting to see how DH reacts, yes.

[DharmaHelper]

After this last lynch and the comments immediately afterward, I'm getting a little suspicious of a few people....

I'm getting more and more suspicious of DH because of what Dom pointed out and the fact that he's been acting so sure of himself about these "bandwagons".

Another shitty bandwagon ended in a civvie lynch?

Just wanted to say: nailed it. Maybe a bit more independent thought next lynch?

These two posts do not seem like they are coming from a civvie tbh. The "I told you so" seems more like something a baddie would say to gain some civvie credit. The comments also seem more like that are intended to divide us even further....not constructive IMO.

You do realize I can't be two different people right?

Hey rabbit, I heard your "bank" might need a bailout.

Just wanted to say this as I catch up:

Excuse me, DH? For someone so suspicious of all aggressive people, you are pretty freaking aggressive. This post just struck me as od. Not only is it pretty aggressive, but it's kind of the type of thing a baddie might do to try and get everyone to trust them; say I told you so!

I was ribbing rabbit, I wasn't being aggressive towards anyone else. I always rib rabbit. I love rabbit rib.. What were we talking about?

I wouldn't say I told you so if I didn't tell you so, and I did tell you so, so I'll remind you that I told you so. Not "you" specifically, but "everyone that has been voting like sheepy sheeps".

Of course I'm not going to make any friends by not drinking the Kool Aid, and of course eventually when we all run out of Civvie Bandwagons to jump on the one guy that has been consistently pursuing his own thought pattern is going to look like the next in line for the boot, but I'm not going to apologize for not lynching civvies, and I'm definitely not going to stop trying to remind people that all this Kool Aid voting is doing more harm than good, if that's what you're after

[birdwithteeth11]

Out of curiosity, who have you really gone after in this game besides rabbit. And don't say INH, unless you enjoy the pot calling the kettle black.

[birdwithteeth11]

besides rabbit?*

The Grammar Nazi has failed you all.

[DharmaHelper]

INH.

Pursuing legitimate thought and sheep voting are two different things, not sure how that's the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sure you'll elaborate though.

[LittleTiger]

Poll Vote Order can now be seen in the Prosilver style.

[DisgruntledPorcupine]

Knowledge! :o

[birdwithteeth11]

I mean, what else have you accused him of besides just being overly aggressive? I'm referring to this bit specifically:

Maybe I'm just put off by how incredibly agressive you've been all game, but I am hesitant to trust anything you say as genuine in nature. You seem to be very strong arm-ish, which I usually associate with baddies.

Dunno, as I said I'm not quite willing to buy into the impending Droopwagon, probably exclusively because you seem so determined to get people on board.

DH, Maybe I'm just put off by how incredibly agressive you've been all game, but I am hesitant to trust anything you say as genuine in nature. You seem to be very strong arm-ish, which I usually associate with baddies.

And then you make light of the situation here:

Lol INH :P

Wow, what a jokey aloof post.

[DharmaHelper]

I'm really getting tired of the "Start reading my posts" schtick everybody, I promise. I'm not doing it on purpose. It's just as frustrating for me to type as it is for you to read.

[DharmaHelper]

Any reason other than the fact that he wanted to avoid a penalty?

Don;t make other people do all the work, man~

You know, sometimes I wonder if people read my posts at all :P

As I said

1. Rabbit defended his contest behavior while bringing up Epig as suspect for posting and not voting. (Even if it was just a joke, Rabbit's on my list and him helping out INH only deepens my suspicions.)
2. His vote for bea seems to me to be more of a "go with the flow, don't ruffle any feathers" vote than anything else.

Adding
3. His defense thusfar has been a very snarky "No U" marathon

As for the posts you quoted, I found it funny that INH's defense to my case was essentially "no u lol"

[DharmaHelper]

Any reason other than the fact that he wanted to avoid a penalty?

Don;t make other people do all the work, man~

You know, sometimes I wonder if people read my posts at all :P

As I said

1. Rabbit defended his contest behavior while bringing up Epig as suspect for posting and not voting. (Even if it was just a joke, Rabbit's on my list and him helping out INH only deepens my suspicions.)
2. His vote for bea seems to me to be more of a "go with the flow, don't ruffle any feathers" vote than anything else.

Adding
3. His defense thusfar has been a very snarky "No U" marathon

As for the posts you quoted, I found it funny that INH's defense to my case was essentially "no u lol"

Adding

4) Apart from his responses to my case, when I read back to his earlier posts alot of them are surface-only posts as I said a while back, not really adding one thing or another.

[DharmaHelper]

I mean, what else have you accused him of besides just being overly aggressive? I'm referring to this bit specifically:

Maybe I'm just put off by how incredibly agressive you've been all game, but I am hesitant to trust anything you say as genuine in nature. You seem to be very strong arm-ish, which I usually associate with baddies.

Dunno, as I said I'm not quite willing to buy into the impending Droopwagon, probably exclusively because you seem so determined to get people on board.

DH, Maybe I'm just put off by how incredibly agressive you've been all game, but I am hesitant to trust anything you say as genuine in nature. You seem to be very strong arm-ish, which I usually associate with baddies.

And then you make light of the situation here:

Lol INH :P

Wow, what a jokey aloof post.

I wasn't even talking to INH in that "aggressive" post, I was talking to Kate!

I need a "start reading my posts" smiley. Get on it, LT.

[Kate]

INH.

Pursuing legitimate thought and sheep voting are two different things, not sure how that's the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sure you'll elaborate though.

I'm sure you didn't mean for this to be as condescending as it came out. Just because someone is wrong does not mean they did not think nor does it make them a sheep. I have seen you be wrong on more than one occasion and did not see anyone make fun of you for it.

[DharmaHelper]

INH.

Pursuing legitimate thought and sheep voting are two different things, not sure how that's the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sure you'll elaborate though.

I'm sure you didn't mean for this to be as condescending as it came out. Just because someone is wrong does not mean they did not think nor does it make them a sheep. I have seen you be wrong on more than one occasion and did not see anyone make fun of you for it.

I tend to use terminology like "sheep voting" "Kool aid voting" "Droopwagon" etc. very surgically. I'm not making fun of anybody.

[reywaS]

INH.

Pursuing legitimate thought and sheep voting are two different things, not sure how that's the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sure you'll elaborate though.

I'm sure you didn't mean for this to be as condescending as it came out. Just because someone is wrong does not mean they did not think nor does it make them a sheep. I have seen you be wrong on more than one occasion and did not see anyone make fun of you for it.

This.

DH, while I saw that the Droopy case was thin and thus didn't vote for him, there was legitimate evidence IMO to point to Vomp being a baddie. Are you saying that before all the votes started rolling in on Vomp that he just wasn't at all suspicious? You make me nervous with how aggressive you are being toward anyone that doesn't vote the way you are. Like Kate said above, just because someone is wrong doesn't make them sheep. I was convinced Vomp was bad...that's why I voted for him 2 days in a row. In hindsight it's easy to say that it was an "easy bandwagon" because he came back a civvie. With the number of baddies in this game, it's going to be very, very easy for all the baddies to jump on a case when it comes down to vote time.

[DharmaHelper]

INH.

Pursuing legitimate thought and sheep voting are two different things, not sure how that's the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sure you'll elaborate though.

I'm sure you didn't mean for this to be as condescending as it came out. Just because someone is wrong does not mean they did not think nor does it make them a sheep. I have seen you be wrong on more than one occasion and did not see anyone make fun of you for it.

I tend to use terminology like "sheep voting" "Kool aid voting" "Droopwagon" etc. very surgically. I'm not making fun of anybody.

[reywaS]

Having said that, I would like to cross reference everyone that voted for both Droopy and Vomp and look at the timing of their votes. Specifically those that didn't put much thought into their votes. I think that would be a good place to look.

[reywaS]

Does anyone have the day 3 vote saved? I'm sure it's in the thread somewhere, so I can find it on my own if I have to of course.

[DharmaHelper]

I'm sure someone has a spreadsheet with the voting order. I don't.

[Flyin' High]

Day 3 Voting Order:
1. Mr. Droopy (rabbit) 1
2. Captain Bunny Killer (rabbit) 2
3. insertnamehere (Mr. Droopy) 1
4. Vompatti (rabbit) 3
5. The Truth (Mr. Droopy) 2
6. birdwithteeth (Mr. Droopy) 3
7. triceratops (Mr. Droopy) 4
8. rabbit (Mr. Droopy) 5
9. DharmaHelper (insertnamehere) 1
10. Flyin' High (Mr. Droopy) 6
11. Littletiger (Mr. Droopy) 7
12. AceofSpaces (Mr. Droopy) 8
13. BoatsBoatsBoats (Mr. Droopy) 9
14. Boomslang (Mr. Droopy) 10
15. reywaS (Vompatti) 1
16. Kate (Mr. Droopy) 11
17. SVS (Vompatti) 2
18. chaindeath (Mr. Droopy) 12
19. DisgruntledPorcupine (Vompatti) 3
20. Epignosis (Vompatti) 4
Didn't vote: Roxy, jokreher, Benthayer (note: Roxy and Benthayer have been replaced since then)

[Flyin' High]

Day 4 Voting Order:
1. Epignosis (Vompatti) 1
2. LittleTiger (Vompatti) 2
3. BoatsBoatsBoats (Vompatti) 3
4. AceofSpaces (Vompatti) 4
5. SVS (Vompatti) 5
6. Kate (Vompatti) 6
7. Juliet (Vompatti) 7
8. Vompatti (Boats) 1
9. DisgruntledPorcupine (Vompatti) 8
10. DharmaHelper (insertnamehere) 1
11. reywaS (Vompatti) 9
12. The Truth (Vompatti) 10
13. rabbit (Vompatti) 11
14. Boomslange (insertnamehere) 2
15. triceratops (Vompatti) 12
16. Flyin' High (Vompatti) 13
17. birdwithteeth (Vompatti) 14
18. chaindeath (Vompatti) 15
19. Mr. Droopy (rabbit) 1
20. insertnamehere (DharmaHelper) 1
Didn't vote: Captain Bunny Killer, jokreher, Roxy (note: Roxy hadn't been replaced yet)

[DharmaHelper]

Big ass post incoming.

5. The Truth (Mr. Droopy) 2
12. The Truth (Vompatti) 10

6. birdwithteeth (Mr. Droopy) 3
17. birdwithteeth (Vompatti) 14

7. triceratops (Mr. Droopy) 4
15. triceratops (Vompatti) 12

8. rabbit (Mr. Droopy) 5
13. rabbit (Vompatti) 11

10. Flyin' High (Mr. Droopy) 6
16. Flyin' High (Vompatti) 13

11. Littletiger (Mr. Droopy) 7
2. LittleTiger (Vompatti) 2

12. AceofSpaces (Mr. Droopy) 8
4. AceofSpaces (Vompatti) 4

13. BoatsBoatsBoats (Mr. Droopy) 9
3. BoatsBoatsBoats (Vompatti) 3

16. Kate (Mr. Droopy) 11
6. Kate (Vompatti) 6

18. chaindeath (Mr. Droopy) 12
18. chaindeath (Vompatti) 15


Droopy Votes In Order:

5. The Truth (2nd Vote for Droopy)
6. BWT (3rd Vote for Droopy)
7. Trice (4th Vote For Droopy)
8. Rabbit (5th Vote For Droopy)
10. FH (6th Vote For Droopy)
11. LT (7th Vote For Droopy)
12. Aces (8th Vote For Droopy)
13. Boats (9th Vote for Droopy)
16. Kate (11th Vote For Droopy)
18. Chaindeath (12th Vote for Droopy)

Vomp Votes In Order:

2. LittleTiger (2nd Vote for Vomp)
3. Boats (3rd Vote for Vomp)
4. Aces (4th Vote for Vomp)
6. Kate (6th Vote for Vomp)
12. The Truth (10th Vote for Vomp)
13. Rabbit (11th Vote for Vomp)
15. Trice (12th Vote for Vomp)
16. FH (13th Vote for Vomp)
17. BWT (14th Vote for Vomp)
18. Chaindeath (15th Vote for Vomp


Analysis:

Groupings (within 1 Vote of each other each vote)
LT, Aces Boats.
The Truth, Trice, Rabbit
Trice, FH, Rabbit
Aces, Kate
Kate, Boats

Order:
Chaindeath is last on each list.

[Kate]

I dont understand you Analysis section and what it is supposed to imply.

Wait, didn't we say earlier today that CBK and chaindeath voted Rabbit? What am I mixing up?

[Kate]

I dont understand you Analysis section and what it is supposed to imply.

Wait, didn't we say earlier today that CBK and chaindeath voted Rabbit? What am I mixing up?

that was day 2, nevermind.

[LittleTiger]

I 2nd Kate's question, DH, what is your analysis supposed to imply?

[reywaS]

Big ass post incoming.

5. The Truth (Mr. Droopy) 2
12. The Truth (Vompatti) 10

6. birdwithteeth (Mr. Droopy) 3
17. birdwithteeth (Vompatti) 14

7. triceratops (Mr. Droopy) 4
15. triceratops (Vompatti) 12

8. rabbit (Mr. Droopy) 5
13. rabbit (Vompatti) 11

10. Flyin' High (Mr. Droopy) 6
16. Flyin' High (Vompatti) 13

11. Littletiger (Mr. Droopy) 7
2. LittleTiger (Vompatti) 2

12. AceofSpaces (Mr. Droopy) 8
4. AceofSpaces (Vompatti) 4

13. BoatsBoatsBoats (Mr. Droopy) 9
3. BoatsBoatsBoats (Vompatti) 3

16. Kate (Mr. Droopy) 11
6. Kate (Vompatti) 6

18. chaindeath (Mr. Droopy) 12
18. chaindeath (Vompatti) 15


Droopy Votes In Order:

5. The Truth (2nd Vote for Droopy)
6. BWT (3rd Vote for Droopy)
7. Trice (4th Vote For Droopy)
8. Rabbit (5th Vote For Droopy)
10. FH (6th Vote For Droopy)
11. LT (7th Vote For Droopy)
12. Aces (8th Vote For Droopy)
13. Boats (9th Vote for Droopy)
16. Kate (11th Vote For Droopy)
18. Chaindeath (12th Vote for Droopy)

Vomp Votes In Order:

2. LittleTiger (2nd Vote for Vomp)
3. Boats (3rd Vote for Vomp)
4. Aces (4th Vote for Vomp)
6. Kate (6th Vote for Vomp)
12. The Truth (10th Vote for Vomp)
13. Rabbit (11th Vote for Vomp)
15. Trice (12th Vote for Vomp)
16. FH (13th Vote for Vomp)
17. BWT (14th Vote for Vomp)
18. Chaindeath (15th Vote for Vomp


Analysis:

Groupings (within 1 Vote of each other each vote)
LT, Aces Boats.
The Truth, Trice, Rabbit
Trice, FH, Rabbit
Aces, Kate
Kate, Boats

Order:
Chaindeath is last on each list.

Nice analysis! Thanks for posting that...and thanks to FH for posting the vote orders.


LT: I wanted to see which people voted for both Droopy and Vomp and see the timing of their votes. I'm going to go back and read those people to see which one's, if any, jumped onto both Droopy and Vomp and didn't put a lot of thought into their votes. I think that might be telling and could result in finding some baddies. It's not a fool proof plan, of course, but I think it could be helpful.