Mass Effect Mafia (END)

[Dom]

Dom's logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Therefore Jack is bad. He's been stuck there ever since.

Use specifics to show this.

Third request: Restate your concerns or questions without weasel words and I will address them.

Dom, I can't remember your questions either. This shit between you and Jack feels completely muddled.

Please Please Please just start over a little with a SIMPLE post that is structured precisely like this:

Jack, I have some questions for you.

1. <insert question 1 here>
2. <insert question 2 here>
...and so on.

Then, Jack, you make a post that just answers the questions, by the numbers, without equivocating, deflecting, or trying to render moot. Answer them as completely as possible.

Fucking finish this, guys.

1. Why do you think nutella is suspicious?
2. Why do you excuse MP?
3. Why did you deflect answers to these questions when I asked them earlier?
4. Why did you say you misunderstood my allegations against you, but then also argue that they have been answered and are bullshit/loaded/etc?
5. You suspect Silver Lantern. I have expressed concerns (based on your posts, you haven't read them). Why is silver lantern more likely to be bad than you?
6. Do you think it's good policy to win as a civ to say, "I don't see the merit in engaging with you" to someone who suspects you? If so, why?
7. You have criticized others for being weak and vague. Please point to your own posts in which you have been strong and specific.
8. What didn't you like about nutella's answers to your questions and why do they make her bad?


Please answer these questions as I have asked them all before only to have them be deflected away from me.

1. Dom, Spirit, and SVS. What specifically do you need to be happy with Jack...at this point is there anything that he can say that won't make you want to lynch him today or any other day? I doubt, even if you caught him, he's likely to admit to being Scum. I'm not sold on Jack's civness either, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his busy at work explanation, but if he's going to be a continuing distraction for a large portion of the players...

Jack could start pushing theories and explaining himself rather than deflecting all of my questions and acusations and refusing to even engage with me. That would be a start.
Why do you want me to move my vote?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Because based on Epi's role, he probably doesn't have btsc with the other Reapers.

It's not as much of a loss than yourself, especially when you are unsure of Epi.

JoH, I don't know the case on you. What I do know is that under pressure you didn't act like a dying civ.

I wasn't a dying civ.

Epi had more votes and then GFish had more votes.

There were three players (Dom, Silver and SVS) who were not interested in having an honest discussion about my alignment. There were two players (Sprityo and Fred, who fell off and was also confirmed) that said they didn't even scumread me but just wouldn't be able to trust me. There were also TSP and GFish who didn't vote for me until it was too late but they didn't provide real reading for voting for me over Epi or GFish.

Six votes (not counting Fred). Zero convincing reasons. Two alternative lynch targets were were obviously bad.

I was never in danger of being lynched and if I was wrong about that? The story writes itself. "Scum follows bullshit reasoning to save their buddy. Refuses to give reasons for lynching a townie. Gets caught and loses game."


Out of curiosity, how do you think a dying civ is supposed to act?

[Epignosis]

Tuck n roll bitches

Tuck and roll bitches.

[Quin]

Sausage roll bitches.

[Dom]

@Dom

If you magically knew I was town, who would you vote for today and why?

I know you don't know this. Humor me.

....kindly read my posts, dude. I have expressed unease about other players. Just because you don't remember them doesn't mean they don't exist. Off the top of my head, I have expressed distrust of LC, gfish, and Silver Lantern.
Counter: Instead of making me the center of attention (someone you claim to town read), why don't you focus your attention on someone you actually scum read?
And why aren't you voting SVS if she's so bad?

At first I was probably a misguided civvie, now I am suddenly bad? I am far from ignoring you. And you are just No U-ing Dom, and now me. I play differently than most people, I am sorry you think it is lazy. It is not.

SVS, curious, where do you get that Jack suspects me?
I think it's easier for him to make the questions about the nature of my argument than his content. He's deflecting for sure. Where do you see a NO U?

[Epignosis]

Sausage roll bitches.

Tuck and roll your britches.

[nutella]

Awesome result! I'll do some investigating later to see if I can figure out who might be gfish's teammates, I bet there's a busser or two in the last few votes. Maybe Adam, he voted with no real explanation and had some suspicious interaction with gfish earlier re: voting for epi.

Wilgy, why do you think I'm reaper??
Ftr I think Silver is probably reaper especially after what he said about epi siding with town.

[Dom]

Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

I'm not punishing anybody. I'm also not doing their jobs for them.

But you aren't allowing those who at least are trying to take a chaince fpr the gain of info to be rewarded by throwing a sideline vote.

What's this? An admitted neutral is not helping out the town? I'm shocked! SHOCKED I SAY!

Wait wait wait.

If I vote Jack, I'm helping the civilians.

But but but but...

You're not voting Jack.

also my reaction.

I don't know, Wilgy. You got my alignment wrong this time.

Implying I care about that at this point.

wilgy ur on fire *fireemoji*

Wigly, does Dom basing his vote off a misunderstanding of what I meant by "rainbow", SVS misunderstanding my case on Nutella yesterday and then refusing to answer my questions or reevaluate her read on me in light of this while doing no scumhunting at all and Silver's lack of townie behavior not give you pause? What about Fred think I'm a distraction more than I'm scum and voting for that reason?

Why you always lying?

Consider me confused then. Lol.

I would say that this makes gfish's claim sound like BS, but why would gfish lie about this in such blatantly illogical form if mafia? That's what I don't understand.

MP, just bus him. Let's not draw this out.

. . . . i've witnessed a murder.

I've never heard "bus" in any other mafia context.

Guess I can join this fish wagon thing. I'm cool with it.

Why?

Hey Epi, why did you claim indy? Remember what happened to me when I circumstantially claimed Tyler Durden the indy in GoC '14?

Thought you had to catch up?

[Dom]

Excellent result!

Reads -

Likely Cerberus:
LC, MP, TSP, Silver... maaaaybe Sprit

Likely Reaper:
JoH, Nut, Raven

If I die tonight, I'd like to see LC and JoH lynched next. JoH's behavior before Gfish took off wasn't indicative of a civilian.

I would like to know Raven's correlation to Dom.

Why Nutella? I agree with most of these other reads.

In regards to Raven-- I'm sorry Wilgy, but there's no *there* there.

Because based on Epi's role, he probably doesn't have btsc with the other Reapers.

It's not as much of a loss than yourself, especially when you are unsure of Epi.

JoH, I don't know the case on you. What I do know is that under pressure you didn't act like a dying civ.

I wasn't a dying civ.

Epi had more votes and then GFish had more votes.

There were three players (Dom, Silver and SVS) who were not interested in having an honest discussion about my alignment. There were two players (Sprityo and Fred, who fell off and was also confirmed) that said they didn't even scumread me but just wouldn't be able to trust me. There were also TSP and GFish who didn't vote for me until it was too late but they didn't provide real reading for voting for me over Epi or GFish.

Six votes (not counting Fred). Zero convincing reasons. Two alternative lynch targets were were obviously bad.

I was never in danger of being lynched and if I was wrong about that? The story writes itself. "Scum follows bullshit reasoning to save their buddy. Refuses to give reasons for lynching a townie. Gets caught and loses game."


Out of curiosity, how do you think a dying civ is supposed to act?

Please point to specifics in accusing players of not wanting to engage with you because, if I recall, only one of us said that we "don't see the merit" in continuing the discussion.
And it wasn't me.

Awesome result! I'll do some investigating later to see if I can figure out who might be gfish's teammates, I bet there's a busser or two in the last few votes. Maybe Adam, he voted with no real explanation and had some suspicious interaction with gfish earlier re: voting for epi.

Wilgy, why do you think I'm reaper??
Ftr I think Silver is probably reaper especially after what he said about epi siding with town.

Thoughts on MP?
Interesting on Adam. Let me read that.

[malakim2099]

Sausage roll bitches.

Tuck and roll your britches.

Scalzi Burrito twitches

[Fredwood]

1. Dom, Spirit, and SVS. What specifically do you need to be happy with Jack...at this point is there anything that he can say that won't make you want to lynch him today or any other day? I doubt, even if you caught him, he's likely to admit to being Scum. I'm not sold on Jack's civness either, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his busy at work explanation, but if he's going to be a continuing distraction for a large portion of the players...

Jack could start pushing theories and explaining himself rather than deflecting all of my questions and acusations and refusing to even engage with me. That would be a start.
Why do you want me to move my vote?

I didn't, I was seeing how likely this would be an ongoing suspicion.

[Fredwood]

Because based on Epi's role, he probably doesn't have btsc with the other Reapers.

It's not as much of a loss than yourself, especially when you are unsure of Epi.

JoH, I don't know the case on you. What I do know is that under pressure you didn't act like a dying civ.

I wasn't a dying civ.

Epi had more votes and then GFish had more votes.

There were three players (Dom, Silver and SVS) who were not interested in having an honest discussion about my alignment. There were two players (Sprityo and Fred, who fell off and was also confirmed) that said they didn't even scumread me but just wouldn't be able to trust me. There were also TSP and GFish who didn't vote for me until it was too late but they didn't provide real reading for voting for me over Epi or GFish.

Six votes (not counting Fred). Zero convincing reasons. Two alternative lynch targets were were obviously bad.

I was never in danger of being lynched and if I was wrong about that? The story writes itself. "Scum follows bullshit reasoning to save their buddy. Refuses to give reasons for lynching a townie. Gets caught and loses game."


Out of curiosity, how do you think a dying civ is supposed to act?

TBF I did have concerns that I expressed about your opportunism and the nature of your pressure targets. I'm going to be more cavalier with my vote this game I think, I'm vanilla, unlikely to survive that many night phases and am broadening my requirements for voting for a player so I am much more likely to vote for you or anyone I, or someone I read as town has a suspicion of.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Dom, this better be the last I hear about your stupid rainbow theory. If you ask me any of these questions again for the rest of this game, I will link you to this post.

Dom's logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Therefore Jack is bad. He's been stuck there ever since.

Use specifics to show this.

Here is you making an assumption, that I did not make a rainbow in the quick reply.

Spoiler: show

Fuuuuu!

Syndicate saves full editor posts but not quick reply ones if the mobile page reloads.

I keep losing content.

I had a cheeky rainbow and everything.

That's some bullshit.
You made a rainbow list in the quick reply?

bad.

Here is you clarifying this assumption, that I did not in fact make a colored rainbow in the quick reply because you think using hexcode is freaking impossible in the quick reply.

Spoiler: show

POLL: Do you think Jack was really making a fucking rainbow list, using color codes that are all in HEX (right-- that's HEX right?) in quick reply?
That sounds like some serious bullshit to me.

Would you really use manual hex codes to make a rainbow list?

But here's the thing. I never said the rainbow was colored in hexcodes. In fact, most of my rainbows are black and white, as seen here.

Spoiler: show

@SVS
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthrea ... ost8832465
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthrea ... ost8833863
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthrea ... ost8829875
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 67#p356067

And of course the post you quoted, one of the rainbows was colored (probably on mobile) and the other was not (probably on PC).

The "rainbow lie" arguement is without merit. I'm more than capable of providing a "rainbow list" without color and the core of the argument is that I didn't actually make a rainbow list in the quick reply because that would have meant doing it without color.

Dom's logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Therefore Jack is bad. He's been stuck there ever since.

Your logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Jack is lying to act like he's contributing when he's not->Therefore Jack is bad.

But you know this because you quoted the last part of my post and ignored the first part.

I feel like you are purposely being dense. Quoting half of my post and then asking a question that is literally explained in the other half of the same post. It is super annoying.


So there's that. You wrongly assume I claimed to make a hexcode rainbow. Thus, I was lying. Thus I was scum.

This is in contrast to SVS, who came in and said my Nutella case made no sense for reasons that made it clear she hadn't actually read my Nutella case. Then, when this was explained, she stayed voting for me and refused to say why.

1. Why do you think nutella is suspicious?

Because she was supa town in Phenon and has done squat, here. She's not hunting. She's not answering questions.

She previously pinged me by saying she town read Bob, Gfish and me after I had spent all day fighting with Bob and Gfish. I had trouble believing that you could believe my content but also think I was wrong, particularly after playing one game with me and zero games with Bob and GFish. Upon reread, Nutella said she slightly read me as town so...not as bad as I initially thought. Not worth being as aggressive as I was. Still not great.

2. Why do you excuse MP?

Cause I liked his day one a lot. He hasn't said anything that I found dishonest. He also made it clear that he understood my Nutella case and thought it was weak.

This is in contrast to SVS, who did not understand my Nutella case.

3. Why did you deflect answers to these questions when I asked them earlier?

Initially, I deflected because I thought your rainbow theory was totally ridiculous. I didn't know you thought I claimed to have made a hex colored rainbow list. It is reasonable to think I did based on your perspective.

I made clear that I misunderstood you here.

Spoiler: show

Would you really use manual hex codes to make a rainbow list?

Oh. That's what this is about?

The rainbow I actually posted isn't colored.

Nor are my Realms ones (though I usually point out yellows start here, oranges start here, etc) because yellow text doesn't show up well on the Realms forum background.

So no, I didn't use manual hex codes to create a colored rainbow list in quick reply. I made a list of players in order of trust to suspect and put in comments. Didn't quite finish. Didn't select all + copy. Page reloaded and I lost it.

However, you've continued to harp on the rainbow thing, long after I explained it. What am I supposed to do? Keep repeating the same thing? If you're not gonna read in the first time or the second time, why bother say it a third time? It's not gonna convince you.

Furthermore, you've continually used aggressively worded questions and statements like "Why are you so suspicious?" and "Why do you keep deflecting instead of answering my questions?" even while I've answered those same questions in other posts, sometimes aimed at other people.

An unconvinceable guy asking me questions I've already answered? Why would I bother engaging with you? If you wanted these answers, you could have ISOed me. I said so here.

Spoiler: show

I'm pretty sure if Dom is town and would both ISO me and attempt to evaluate my alignment instead of tunnel, he would find that I've answered every question he's asked (usually prior to him asking).

If he would state his questions, we could reset. Instead, he harps on me not answering when I'm pretty sure I have. In particular, the questions regarding what I meant by "rainbow" and the Nut fish/Bob/Jack reads have been answered. Easily found in the ISO.

4. Why did you say you misunderstood my allegations against you, but then also argue that they have been answered and are bullshit/loaded/etc?

I initially thought they were bullshit because I didn't understand the hex thing. I then explained what I actually meant and provided evidence that my rainbow posts are often made entirely of white text. You continued to ask about it. At that point, the question HAD been answered. The theory is bullshit. It's wrong. Obviously. I've posted links to a half dozen black/white text rainbows. If you're unconvinced, you're tunneling. If others are unconvinced, they're lying. Hence, bullshit.

5. You suspect Silver Lantern. I have expressed concerns (based on your posts, you haven't read them). Why is silver lantern more likely to be bad than you?

Well, I am town based on my role PM.

I am not reaver based on trying to kill Epi for about half the day while also trying to kill Silver (who pointedly did not want to lynch Epi but didn't say why) and while Wigly (who was also unwilling to lynch Epi) kept threatening to kill me. So if I want to kill a bot and all the bot's friends want to kill me....I'm not a bot.

I'm not Cerberus because if I was Cerberus, I wouldn't have switched over to GFish. A Geth or reaver don lynch would have made me happy. No reason to bus a teammate who had 2 or 3 votes on him at the time.

So I'm not Cerberus and I'm not a Reaver. I must be town or at least neutral, right? You worried about me winning as LMS? With all these people after my head? Best to just assume I'm town and not worry about it.

As for Silver, here is my case against him. Summarized, he's acting like scum Silver, not town Silver. He's going through the motions, taking easy ways out, not explaining himself. He's throwing fits but they feel forced. He's not doing anything to help the town because he's not town. He also refused to vote Epi or GFish.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p357024
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356785
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356734
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356882
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p355632
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356076
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356238
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356295

6. Do you think it's good policy to win as a civ to say, "I don't see the merit in engaging with you" to someone who suspects you? If so, why?

It can be, if there is no merit in engaging with someone. Suppose God told you to vote for me no matter what and you never made a single decent point against me. What would be gained by addressing your non accusations in this situation? I'm not convincing you. I'm not convincing anyone else. It's just a distraction.

Indeed, some players have said I have spent too much time messing around with you as is.

7. You have criticized others for being weak and vague. Please point to your own posts in which you have been strong and specific.

You can check my above linked posts about Silver. I have been very specific. Strong is subjective but all of my rainbows have been commited. I'm not being wishy washy. Most players have their place and a reason for them in my rainbows. You can find my rainbows on your own, right? I don't need to link you to them?

8. What didn't you like about nutella's answers to your questions and why do they make her bad?

Nutella never answered my questions. This doesn't necessarily make her bad but it's a bad look.





Good enough? I'd like to ask you some questions but my priority is never having to come back to this line of questioning again because it is super frustrating and I just can't do it on my phone.

[Dom]

1. Dom, Spirit, and SVS. What specifically do you need to be happy with Jack...at this point is there anything that he can say that won't make you want to lynch him today or any other day? I doubt, even if you caught him, he's likely to admit to being Scum. I'm not sold on Jack's civness either, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his busy at work explanation, but if he's going to be a continuing distraction for a large portion of the players...

Jack could start pushing theories and explaining himself rather than deflecting all of my questions and acusations and refusing to even engage with me. That would be a start.
Why do you want me to move my vote?

I didn't, I was seeing how likely this would be an ongoing suspicion.

A *distraction*?
What's the implication?

[Fredwood]

Sausage roll bitches.

Tuck and roll your britches.

Scalzi Burrito twitches

Dress and boil your leeches.

[Fredwood]

1. Dom, Spirit, and SVS. What specifically do you need to be happy with Jack...at this point is there anything that he can say that won't make you want to lynch him today or any other day? I doubt, even if you caught him, he's likely to admit to being Scum. I'm not sold on Jack's civness either, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his busy at work explanation, but if he's going to be a continuing distraction for a large portion of the players...

Jack could start pushing theories and explaining himself rather than deflecting all of my questions and acusations and refusing to even engage with me. That would be a start.
Why do you want me to move my vote?

I didn't, I was seeing how likely this would be an ongoing suspicion.

A *distraction*?
What's the implication?

It's pretty simple no? In reference to yesterday's phase, if this was going to be an ongoing thread no matter what Jack said, lynching him was probably the best move.

Not sure what you're trying to get at, I stated multiple times my concerns about Jack yesterday, including in the very post you keep dissecting. The reason we CFD to Fish was because Fish refused to vote for Jack and we could achieve a lynch on Fish easier then we could Jack.

[Fredwood]

That and Wilgy's gut was stronger on Fish then it was Jack...I think some of the evidence has been muddled and most people skim over it.

[Epignosis]

Let's make Cerberus uncomfortable tonight.

No voting Day 0, correct?

I haven't even read the rules yet. I can access the site from work and I'll have plenty of downtime Monday.

Can we vote no lynch?

Why in the world would we want to vote no lynch?

I'm asking, not suggesting.

Great interaction with MP. I despise no lynches outside of certain endgame scenarios, and I know MP feels likewise.

Bob is by my estimation the best HCRealms player who isn't me. He's great at strategic analysis. I totally expected his first posts to be clarifying rules/tricky roles and especially meta/Syndicate strategy. That is outside his alignment and is step one to playing this game from his (and my) standpoint. You have to understand the whole picture before you can play well. In no universe does Bob ignore this and in no universe is he scared to engage the Syndicate players in this type of discussion.

The only thing that Bob has done that is potentially alignment indicative is voting for Dizzy. Bob, can you explain your vote?

I don't like this post, which looks like cozying up to Bob.

Also, he didn't compliment me.

Also, I'm not as good as bob either.

On the surface, this looks like banter, and it's worth a reminder that gfishfunk had no qualms about trying to save himself with Jack's body. I think that works in Jack's favor as far as this team is concerned. The next post, which I won't quote, reinforces this for me.

No voting Day 0, correct?

I haven't even read the rules yet. I can access the site from work and I'll have plenty of downtime Monday.

Can we vote no lynch?

Why in the world would we want to vote no lynch?

I'm asking, not suggesting.

Good cooperation on the MP wagon. If he's town, we can blame Wilgy.
Also, don't think no lynch is a choice, since it's not an option in the poll.

I thought I would throw a vote on him to see what he would do.

Is this a game that you can power claim, name claim, action claim, alliance claim, and everything? I assume so, but I don't want to get mod-killed or whatever your equivalent is.

I really don't understand this interaction. Instinctively, it raises my suspicion of Dys.

Spoiler: show

Adam - if this is adamical: he is a solid player with a tendency to lurk or say nothing of substance for large stretches and then break open a game.

CaptainNifty - good instincts. I usually tend to read him as town regardless of alignment so I guess that means he plays scum well.

colonialbob - posts

Dom - The guy from MegaTokyo?

DrWilgy - Dr. Wiley's less stationary sibling

Dyslexicon - is that like a sexy lexicon?

Epignosis - has knowledge of of the spiritual realm above, if names are to be believed.

Fredwood - Another player I have trouble reading. Tends to follow others who are leading discussions, if I remember correctly, but doesn't follow blindly.

gfishfunk - myself: usually one of the top posters, even if I have limited access. People say I think outside the box (JoH mentioned it in his read) and I protest that I think things through differently. In real life, I'm a lawyer.

Immortal_Raven - my real-life friend that does D&D with me every other week. We tend to either go after each other or ignore each other. He always, always, always makes me suspicious though. He tends to be noncommittal to any theory in game, which always raises my hackles.

Jackofhearts2005 - Tries to run the show, which is at least consistent. Everything he says sounds smart but its really just noisy.

Long Con - I have nothing witty to say about this person. It can be argued that I haven't said anything witty yet, either.

MovingPictures07 - Threw down a read super early on very little, which leads me to believe that s/he is trying to generate an air of competence and expertise with the players new to the forum, and set expectations. Can't say whether its good or bad.

nutella - delicious.

Silver Lantern - The only thing that needs to be said: A bull on fire in a flammable china shop. The thing that probably shouldn't be said: if I knew the guy in real life we would have a total bromance. I hope this doesn't make things awkward. When he lurks, he is scum.

sprityo - Epignosis' more down to earth friend.

S~V~S - Someone that needs help but messed up their morse code

thellama73 - I respect llamas and all nature.

TonyStarkPrime - Tends to come off as scummy even when not. Normally a bit of a quieter player.

gfishfunk - myself: usually one of the top posters, even if I have limited access. People say I think outside the box (JoH mentioned it in his read) and I protest that I think things through differently. In real life, I'm a lawyer.

This is another indication that I don't think JoH is Cerberus.

Now what I am about to say regarding this post may seem insignificant, but in hindsight, I think it's important.

"Epignosis" is a Greek word meaning "toward knowledge." It's my username because it defines what I'm about.

gfishfunk got the meaning wrong.

Epignosis - has knowledge of of the spiritual realm above, if names are to be believed.

I might forgive it, except that he said "if names are to be believed."

That tells me he didn't look up my name. "Epignosis" doesn't inherently have anything to do with spiritual things or heaven or any of that. My music has such themes.

What I'm driving at is this: Gfishfunk is on a team with somebody who knows I'm religious but doesn't know what my name means. In other words, I believe someone from The Syndicate is on his team, because his understanding of Koine Greek is shit. How did he know my name could be religious?

On another note, "Long Con" is a fairly simple name to say something about. gfish took a stab at my name, which is fairly more complicated, but for Long Con, had this to say: "I have nothing witty to say about this person. It can be argued that I haven't said anything witty yet, either."

I believe Long Con was paralyzed. That is to say I believe he was Gfishfunk's teammate, but, due to the circumstances, he couldn't comfortably move his vote even if he wanted to. So he stayed on me. He had no comfortable avenue to vote elsewhere.

And gfishfunk being mafia gives credence to my little scheme with respect to Long Con. The fact that they both tried to "expose" me shows they are working together.

I will stop here to flush my system. I will resume later. I encourage everyone to look at these posts and see potential teammate interactions.

[Dom]

I wasn't sure what you were getting at-- that's all.

[Dom]

Why Adam Might Be Cerberus

Adam, leading up to gfish's lynch, made five posts in which he mentioned gfish.

Post #1: A Read List where he lists him as a civ read.

Here, he takes the side of gfish against epignosis.

"my inclination is that gfish is town"

With very little explanation, his read switches to bad.

His vote on gfish


What do we think?

[DrWilgy]

@Dom - My suspicion on Nut is just there because she hasn't contributed enough for me to say otherwise. She's not a Cerberus, and I don't trust her yet... So Reaper!

@EVERYONE
I'm tired of this Judge Judy bullshit. I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

My own -
LC and Raven are GFish's teammates. LC for his interactions with Epi during the past cycle. Raven for Gfish's "out of left field" question, and acceptance of sub-par answers (IMO).

I think the fastest way for us to deal with Cerberus is to tie up both LC and Raven. Lay them both down so their heads are relatively on top of each other, then drop a really, really, heavy rock on both of their heads. There will be a crunch, then a host message that Cerberus has been womp womp'd.

linki - neat!

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Dom

If you magically knew I was town, who would you vote for today and why?

I know you don't know this. Humor me.

....kindly read my posts, dude. I have expressed unease about other players. Just because you don't remember them doesn't mean they don't exist. Off the top of my head, I have expressed distrust of LC, gfish, and Silver Lantern.
Counter: Instead of making me the center of attention (someone you claim to town read), why don't you focus your attention on someone you actually scum read?
And why aren't you voting SVS if she's so bad?

To be honest, neither of us are looking at each other's posts about other people enough.

I've been frustrated with you and seen you as not worth engaging. You've been tunneling on me and assuming my mouth is a cow's anus.

Your other suspects are noted. Can you give me more about LC and Silver? I think LC is town and Silver is bad. Who do you think is more likely to be bad? Why? What team do you suspect them to be on.

As for me not voting SVS, it's cause SVS was my....fourth biggest suspect? Silver, Gfish, Epi. Then SVS, unless I'm forgetting someone. I only have but one vote to give.

At first I was probably a misguided civvie, now I am suddenly bad? I am far from ignoring you. And you are just No U-ing Dom, and now me. I play differently than most people, I am sorry you think it is lazy. It is not.

SVS, curious, where do you get that Jack suspects me?
I think it's easier for him to make the questions about the nature of my argument than his content. He's deflecting for sure. Where do you see a NO U?

I would like the answer to this as well. I don't suspect Dom of being scum at this point.

I've seen his town game. It's frustrating. I have no reason to believe he is scum. No other player has stated they think his behavior makes him scum.

I believe him to be a tunneling townie. I feel like SVS thinks f she groups herself with Dom, she thinks it makes me attack both of you at once or else provides double the weight to her accusation. It doesn't.

[Dom]

@Dom - My suspicion on Nut is just there because she hasn't contributed enough for me to say otherwise. She's not a Cerberus, and I don't trust her yet... So Reaper!

@EVERYONE
I'm tired of this Judge Judy bullshit. I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

My own -
LC and Raven are GFish's teammates. LC for his interactions with Epi during the past cycle. Raven for Gfish's "out of left field" question, and acceptance of sub-par answers (IMO).

I think the fastest way for us to deal with Cerberus is to tie up both LC and Raven. Lay them both down so their heads are relatively on top of each other, then drop a really, really, heavy rock on both of their heads. There will be a crunch, then a host message that Cerberus has been womp womp'd.

linki - neat!

My two picks would be MP and Adam for bussing the shit out of gfish out of nowhere.
Wilgy-- I'm all for finding teammates, but why the focus on cerberus?

@Dom

If you magically knew I was town, who would you vote for today and why?

I know you don't know this. Humor me.

....kindly read my posts, dude. I have expressed unease about other players. Just because you don't remember them doesn't mean they don't exist. Off the top of my head, I have expressed distrust of LC, gfish, and Silver Lantern.
Counter: Instead of making me the center of attention (someone you claim to town read), why don't you focus your attention on someone you actually scum read?
And why aren't you voting SVS if she's so bad?

To be honest, neither of us are looking at each other's posts about other people enough.

I've been frustrated with you and seen you as not worth engaging. You've been tunneling on me and assuming my mouth is a cow's anus.

Your other suspects are noted. Can you give me more about LC and Silver? I think LC is town and Silver is bad. Who do you think is more likely to be bad? Why? What team do you suspect them to be on.

As for me not voting SVS, it's cause SVS was my....fourth biggest suspect? Silver, Gfish, Epi. Then SVS, unless I'm forgetting someone. I only have but one vote to give.

At one point you said SVS was almost sure to be bad...

I have not ignored your posts. You continue to ignore mine. I'm not playing a *both of us are wrong* game here. You continue to ignore my posts. I posted a list of 8 questions. Answer them.

[Long Con]

On another note, "Long Con" is a fairly simple name to say something about. gfish took a stab at my name, which is fairly more complicated, but for Long Con, had this to say: "I have nothing witty to say about this person. It can be argued that I haven't said anything witty yet, either."

I believe Long Con was paralyzed. That is to say I believe he was Gfishfunk's teammate, but, due to the circumstances, he couldn't comfortably move his vote even if he wanted to. So he stayed on me. He had no comfortable avenue to vote elsewhere.

And gfishfunk being mafia gives credence to my little scheme with respect to Long Con. The fact that they both tried to "expose" me shows they are working together.

I will stop here to flush my system. I will resume later. I encourage everyone to look at these posts and see potential teammate interactions.

There are no teammate interactions. I wasn't working with gFish, he followed me on my suspicion of you. I didn't have a Mafia team in mind when I accused you, I just knew you were lying about being Civ.

[Long Con]

Why Adam Might Be Cerberus

Adam, leading up to gfish's lynch, made five posts in which he mentioned gfish.

Post #1: A Read List where he lists him as a civ read.

Here, he takes the side of gfish against epignosis.

"my inclination is that gfish is town"

With very little explanation, his read switches to bad.

His vote on gfish


What do we think?

That does look bad for adam. I would believe him as a GFish teammate.

[Long Con]

@Dom - My suspicion on Nut is just there because she hasn't contributed enough for me to say otherwise. She's not a Cerberus, and I don't trust her yet... So Reaper!

@EVERYONE
I'm tired of this Judge Judy bullshit. I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

My own -
LC and Raven are GFish's teammates. LC for his interactions with Epi during the past cycle. Raven for Gfish's "out of left field" question, and acceptance of sub-par answers (IMO).

I think the fastest way for us to deal with Cerberus is to tie up both LC and Raven. Lay them both down so their heads are relatively on top of each other, then drop a really, really, heavy rock on both of their heads. There will be a crunch, then a host message that Cerberus has been womp womp'd.

I don't know if you are worth trying to reason with, but you are wrong. I'm not Cerberus. Go drop a rock on your own head, as far as I'm concerned there's no reason not to believe you're a Reaper.

[DrWilgy]

@Dom - My suspicion on Nut is just there because she hasn't contributed enough for me to say otherwise. She's not a Cerberus, and I don't trust her yet... So Reaper!

@EVERYONE
I'm tired of this Judge Judy bullshit. I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

My own -
LC and Raven are GFish's teammates. LC for his interactions with Epi during the past cycle. Raven for Gfish's "out of left field" question, and acceptance of sub-par answers (IMO).

I think the fastest way for us to deal with Cerberus is to tie up both LC and Raven. Lay them both down so their heads are relatively on top of each other, then drop a really, really, heavy rock on both of their heads. There will be a crunch, then a host message that Cerberus has been womp womp'd.

I don't know if you are worth trying to reason with, but you are wrong. I'm not Cerberus. Go drop a rock on your own head, as far as I'm concerned there's no reason not to believe you're a Reaper.

M'kay, do you have reason to believe I AM a Reaper? By all means, drop a rock on my head if you think that'll win you the game.

[Long Con]

@Dom - My suspicion on Nut is just there because she hasn't contributed enough for me to say otherwise. She's not a Cerberus, and I don't trust her yet... So Reaper!

@EVERYONE
I'm tired of this Judge Judy bullshit. I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

My own -
LC and Raven are GFish's teammates. LC for his interactions with Epi during the past cycle. Raven for Gfish's "out of left field" question, and acceptance of sub-par answers (IMO).

I think the fastest way for us to deal with Cerberus is to tie up both LC and Raven. Lay them both down so their heads are relatively on top of each other, then drop a really, really, heavy rock on both of their heads. There will be a crunch, then a host message that Cerberus has been womp womp'd.

I don't know if you are worth trying to reason with, but you are wrong. I'm not Cerberus. Go drop a rock on your own head, as far as I'm concerned there's no reason not to believe you're a Reaper.

M'kay, do you have reason to believe I AM a Reaper? By all means, drop a rock on my head if you think that'll win you the game.

Well, you've been fawning over Epignosis for quite a while now. Since I believe he's chosen to be a Reaper, that makes you my number one choice as a Reaper suspicion.

[Epignosis]

On another note, "Long Con" is a fairly simple name to say something about. gfish took a stab at my name, which is fairly more complicated, but for Long Con, had this to say: "I have nothing witty to say about this person. It can be argued that I haven't said anything witty yet, either."

I believe Long Con was paralyzed. That is to say I believe he was Gfishfunk's teammate, but, due to the circumstances, he couldn't comfortably move his vote even if he wanted to. So he stayed on me. He had no comfortable avenue to vote elsewhere.

And gfishfunk being mafia gives credence to my little scheme with respect to Long Con. The fact that they both tried to "expose" me shows they are working together.

I will stop here to flush my system. I will resume later. I encourage everyone to look at these posts and see potential teammate interactions.

There are no teammate interactions. I wasn't working with gFish, he followed me on my suspicion of you. I didn't have a Mafia team in mind when I accused you, I just knew you were lying about being Civ.

Mafia that tried to kill me knew I was lying about being a civilian.

And you kept asking if I was nervous. I don't get nervous. I know exactly what I'm about at all times. Have you ever seen me get nervous before endgame? I told you I only ever nervous at endgame.

This ain't endgame bucko. No nerves. I knew precisely what I was doing, and, in a roundabout way, it led a mafia lynch. I'm happy with that. I think I've caught you as his teammate.

[Dom]

Dom, this better be the last I hear about your stupid rainbow theory. If you ask me any of these questions again for the rest of this game, I will link you to this post.

Dom's logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Therefore Jack is bad. He's been stuck there ever since.

Use specifics to show this.

Here is you making an assumption, that I did not make a rainbow in the quick reply.

Spoiler: show

Fuuuuu!

Syndicate saves full editor posts but not quick reply ones if the mobile page reloads.

I keep losing content.

I had a cheeky rainbow and everything.

That's some bullshit.
You made a rainbow list in the quick reply?

bad.

Here is you clarifying this assumption, that I did not in fact make a colored rainbow in the quick reply because you think using hexcode is freaking impossible in the quick reply.

Spoiler: show

POLL: Do you think Jack was really making a fucking rainbow list, using color codes that are all in HEX (right-- that's HEX right?) in quick reply?
That sounds like some serious bullshit to me.

Would you really use manual hex codes to make a rainbow list?

But here's the thing. I never said the rainbow was colored in hexcodes. In fact, most of my rainbows are black and white, as seen here.

Spoiler: show

@SVS
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthrea ... ost8832465
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthrea ... ost8833863
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthrea ... ost8829875
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 67#p356067

And of course the post you quoted, one of the rainbows was colored (probably on mobile) and the other was not (probably on PC).

The "rainbow lie" arguement is without merit. I'm more than capable of providing a "rainbow list" without color and the core of the argument is that I didn't actually make a rainbow list in the quick reply because that would have meant doing it without color.

Dom's logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Therefore Jack is bad. He's been stuck there ever since.

Your logic goes:
Bad assumption->Therefore Jack is lying->Jack is lying to act like he's contributing when he's not->Therefore Jack is bad.

But you know this because you quoted the last part of my post and ignored the first part.

I feel like you are purposely being dense. Quoting half of my post and then asking a question that is literally explained in the other half of the same post. It is super annoying.


So there's that. You wrongly assume I claimed to make a hexcode rainbow. Thus, I was lying. Thus I was scum.

This is in contrast to SVS, who came in and said my Nutella case made no sense for reasons that made it clear she hadn't actually read my Nutella case. Then, when this was explained, she stayed voting for me and refused to say why.

1. Why do you think nutella is suspicious?

Because she was supa town in Phenon and has done squat, here. She's not hunting. She's not answering questions.

She previously pinged me by saying she town read Bob, Gfish and me after I had spent all day fighting with Bob and Gfish. I had trouble believing that you could believe my content but also think I was wrong, particularly after playing one game with me and zero games with Bob and GFish. Upon reread, Nutella said she slightly read me as town so...not as bad as I initially thought. Not worth being as aggressive as I was. Still not great.

2. Why do you excuse MP?

Cause I liked his day one a lot. He hasn't said anything that I found dishonest. He also made it clear that he understood my Nutella case and thought it was weak.

This is in contrast to SVS, who did not understand my Nutella case.

3. Why did you deflect answers to these questions when I asked them earlier?

Initially, I deflected because I thought your rainbow theory was totally ridiculous. I didn't know you thought I claimed to have made a hex colored rainbow list. It is reasonable to think I did based on your perspective.

I made clear that I misunderstood you here.

Spoiler: show

Would you really use manual hex codes to make a rainbow list?

Oh. That's what this is about?

The rainbow I actually posted isn't colored.

Nor are my Realms ones (though I usually point out yellows start here, oranges start here, etc) because yellow text doesn't show up well on the Realms forum background.

So no, I didn't use manual hex codes to create a colored rainbow list in quick reply. I made a list of players in order of trust to suspect and put in comments. Didn't quite finish. Didn't select all + copy. Page reloaded and I lost it.

However, you've continued to harp on the rainbow thing, long after I explained it. What am I supposed to do? Keep repeating the same thing? If you're not gonna read in the first time or the second time, why bother say it a third time? It's not gonna convince you.

Furthermore, you've continually used aggressively worded questions and statements like "Why are you so suspicious?" and "Why do you keep deflecting instead of answering my questions?" even while I've answered those same questions in other posts, sometimes aimed at other people.

An unconvinceable guy asking me questions I've already answered? Why would I bother engaging with you? If you wanted these answers, you could have ISOed me. I said so here.

Spoiler: show

I'm pretty sure if Dom is town and would both ISO me and attempt to evaluate my alignment instead of tunnel, he would find that I've answered every question he's asked (usually prior to him asking).

If he would state his questions, we could reset. Instead, he harps on me not answering when I'm pretty sure I have. In particular, the questions regarding what I meant by "rainbow" and the Nut fish/Bob/Jack reads have been answered. Easily found in the ISO.

4. Why did you say you misunderstood my allegations against you, but then also argue that they have been answered and are bullshit/loaded/etc?

I initially thought they were bullshit because I didn't understand the hex thing. I then explained what I actually meant and provided evidence that my rainbow posts are often made entirely of white text. You continued to ask about it. At that point, the question HAD been answered. The theory is bullshit. It's wrong. Obviously. I've posted links to a half dozen black/white text rainbows. If you're unconvinced, you're tunneling. If others are unconvinced, they're lying. Hence, bullshit.

5. You suspect Silver Lantern. I have expressed concerns (based on your posts, you haven't read them). Why is silver lantern more likely to be bad than you?

Well, I am town based on my role PM.

I am not reaver based on trying to kill Epi for about half the day while also trying to kill Silver (who pointedly did not want to lynch Epi but didn't say why) and while Wigly (who was also unwilling to lynch Epi) kept threatening to kill me. So if I want to kill a bot and all the bot's friends want to kill me....I'm not a bot.

I'm not Cerberus because if I was Cerberus, I wouldn't have switched over to GFish. A Geth or reaver don lynch would have made me happy. No reason to bus a teammate who had 2 or 3 votes on him at the time.

So I'm not Cerberus and I'm not a Reaver. I must be town or at least neutral, right? You worried about me winning as LMS? With all these people after my head? Best to just assume I'm town and not worry about it.

As for Silver, here is my case against him. Summarized, he's acting like scum Silver, not town Silver. He's going through the motions, taking easy ways out, not explaining himself. He's throwing fits but they feel forced. He's not doing anything to help the town because he's not town. He also refused to vote Epi or GFish.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p357024
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356785
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356734
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356882
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p355632
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356076
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356238
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... er#p356295

6. Do you think it's good policy to win as a civ to say, "I don't see the merit in engaging with you" to someone who suspects you? If so, why?

It can be, if there is no merit in engaging with someone. Suppose God told you to vote for me no matter what and you never made a single decent point against me. What would be gained by addressing your non accusations in this situation? I'm not convincing you. I'm not convincing anyone else. It's just a distraction.

Indeed, some players have said I have spent too much time messing around with you as is.

7. You have criticized others for being weak and vague. Please point to your own posts in which you have been strong and specific.

You can check my above linked posts about Silver. I have been very specific. Strong is subjective but all of my rainbows have been commited. I'm not being wishy washy. Most players have their place and a reason for them in my rainbows. You can find my rainbows on your own, right? I don't need to link you to them?

8. What didn't you like about nutella's answers to your questions and why do they make her bad?

Nutella never answered my questions. This doesn't necessarily make her bad but it's a bad look.





Good enough? I'd like to ask you some questions but my priority is never having to come back to this line of questioning again because it is super frustrating and I just can't do it on my phone.

I missed this post scrolling. I am reading it now, Jack.

[Epignosis]

@Dom - My suspicion on Nut is just there because she hasn't contributed enough for me to say otherwise. She's not a Cerberus, and I don't trust her yet... So Reaper!

@EVERYONE
I'm tired of this Judge Judy bullshit. I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

My own -
LC and Raven are GFish's teammates. LC for his interactions with Epi during the past cycle. Raven for Gfish's "out of left field" question, and acceptance of sub-par answers (IMO).

I think the fastest way for us to deal with Cerberus is to tie up both LC and Raven. Lay them both down so their heads are relatively on top of each other, then drop a really, really, heavy rock on both of their heads. There will be a crunch, then a host message that Cerberus has been womp womp'd.

I don't know if you are worth trying to reason with, but you are wrong. I'm not Cerberus. Go drop a rock on your own head, as far as I'm concerned there's no reason not to believe you're a Reaper.

M'kay, do you have reason to believe I AM a Reaper? By all means, drop a rock on my head if you think that'll win you the game.

Well, you've been fawning over Epignosis for quite a while now. Since I believe he's chosen to be a Reaper, that makes you my number one choice as a Reaper suspicion.

How do I choose to be a Reaper?

Explain it to me using my role description.

[Dom]

How can you not like someone's answers you claim to have not received.
Those are incompatible.

You probably are Cerberus, but your reason for not being Repaer is malarky.

[Long Con]

Mafia that tried to kill me knew I was lying about being a civilian.

Mafia attempting to kill you is a huge assumption that I'm not making.

And you kept asking if I was nervous. I don't get nervous. I know exactly what I'm about at all times. Have you ever seen me get nervous before endgame? I told you I only ever nervous at endgame.

That's why your claim stood out. It didn't make sense for Epignosis to do.

This ain't endgame bucko. No nerves. I knew precisely what I was doing, and, in a roundabout way, it led a mafia lynch. I'm happy with that. I think I've caught you as his teammate.

I'm happy that a baddie was lynched, but it was his own bad claiming that got him lynched, wasn't it? Was it you that caught him for that? No, I have no teammates.

[Long Con]

@Dom - My suspicion on Nut is just there because she hasn't contributed enough for me to say otherwise. She's not a Cerberus, and I don't trust her yet... So Reaper!

@EVERYONE
I'm tired of this Judge Judy bullshit. I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

My own -
LC and Raven are GFish's teammates. LC for his interactions with Epi during the past cycle. Raven for Gfish's "out of left field" question, and acceptance of sub-par answers (IMO).

I think the fastest way for us to deal with Cerberus is to tie up both LC and Raven. Lay them both down so their heads are relatively on top of each other, then drop a really, really, heavy rock on both of their heads. There will be a crunch, then a host message that Cerberus has been womp womp'd.

I don't know if you are worth trying to reason with, but you are wrong. I'm not Cerberus. Go drop a rock on your own head, as far as I'm concerned there's no reason not to believe you're a Reaper.

M'kay, do you have reason to believe I AM a Reaper? By all means, drop a rock on my head if you think that'll win you the game.

Well, you've been fawning over Epignosis for quite a while now. Since I believe he's chosen to be a Reaper, that makes you my number one choice as a Reaper suspicion.

How do I choose to be a Reaper?

Explain it to me using my role description.

Are you fucking kidding me? Why are you dancing the Obtuse Dance?

[Dom]

You probably aren't* cerberus

[Long Con]

You probably aren't* cerberus

You're talking to Wilgy right?

[Dom]

Jack, actually

[DrWilgy]

Long Con, this is why I'm having trouble trusting you anymore. Especially for someone who threw together a cheatsheet for the roles.
- "If you align with the Reapers, you will not join them in BTSC or be made aware of their identities. They will be made aware of yours."

This is directly from Geth's role. This implies that even if I were a Reaper, I wouldn't know of his existence unless he chose n1 and I was notified of him.

This means Epi - Didn't use the full allotted time to see which side was winning, and revealed his role information to us in-spite of being a baddie.

You actually believe that? You also think that Epi would choose to join the Reapers before n3? Why would Epi do that?

[Long Con]

Sorry, my bad. Dom, you listed me in your suspects. Is that because I'm after Epi's lynch?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Why Adam Might Be Cerberus

Adam, leading up to gfish's lynch, made five posts in which he mentioned gfish.

Post #1: A Read List where he lists him as a civ read.

Here, he takes the side of gfish against epignosis.

"my inclination is that gfish is town"

With very little explanation, his read switches to bad.

His vote on gfish


What do we think?

I like this a lot. Adam is traditionally a pragmatist, much like me. He'll vote for the top suspect if his bigger ones aren't on the chopping block.

So i expect him to last minute lynch a yellow. Not a green, though.

I have not ignored your posts. You continue to ignore mine. I'm not playing a *both of us are wrong* game here.

We're not both wrong.

You're wrong. I'm right. I lynched a mafia member.

I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

Adam and SVS.

Dom's case on Adam is convincing.

Here is the entirety of SVS's posts about GFish this game even though GFish was front and center the entire day.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... sh#p355496
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... sh#p355499
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... sh#p355844
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... sh#p356402

Vague civ reads and slight mentions at the very beginning of the game. That's it. She has spent the entire last day on me based on a bad case and has refused to engage me and encouraged me to not engage with players who were voting for me. After I spent a long time trying to get Silver lynched to no avail, she told me to keep at it and said nothing about the case itself. There's also the previously mentioned attempt to attach herself to Dom.

A probable baddie that has nothing specific at all to say about our great late scummer? Yeah, that looks like a teammate to me.

[Long Con]

Long Con, this is why I'm having trouble trusting you anymore. Especially for someone who threw together a cheatsheet for the roles.
- "If you align with the Reapers, you will not join them in BTSC or be made aware of their identities. They will be made aware of yours."

This is directly from Geth's role. This implies that even if I were a Reaper, I wouldn't know of his existence unless he chose n1 and I was notified of him.

This means Epi - Didn't use the full allotted time to see which side was winning, and revealed his role information to us in-spite of being a baddie.

You actually believe that? You also think that Epi would choose to join the Reapers before n3? Why would Epi do that?

Dude, you read wrong, but your mistake... god dammit, it looks good on you.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

@Dom - My suspicion on Nut is just there because she hasn't contributed enough for me to say otherwise. She's not a Cerberus, and I don't trust her yet... So Reaper!

@EVERYONE
I'm tired of this Judge Judy bullshit. I need from each player, in only 3 sentences minimum, who are GFish's teammates and why.

My own -
LC and Raven are GFish's teammates. LC for his interactions with Epi during the past cycle. Raven for Gfish's "out of left field" question, and acceptance of sub-par answers (IMO).

I think the fastest way for us to deal with Cerberus is to tie up both LC and Raven. Lay them both down so their heads are relatively on top of each other, then drop a really, really, heavy rock on both of their heads. There will be a crunch, then a host message that Cerberus has been womp womp'd.

I don't know if you are worth trying to reason with, but you are wrong. I'm not Cerberus. Go drop a rock on your own head, as far as I'm concerned there's no reason not to believe you're a Reaper.

M'kay, do you have reason to believe I AM a Reaper? By all means, drop a rock on my head if you think that'll win you the game.

Well, you've been fawning over Epignosis for quite a while now. Since I believe he's chosen to be a Reaper, that makes you my number one choice as a Reaper suspicion.

How do I choose to be a Reaper?

Explain it to me using my role description.

Are you fucking kidding me? Why are you dancing the Obtuse Dance?

I don't choose to be a Reaper. I choose to win with them.

That's a big difference.

[DrWilgy]

Dude, you read wrong, but your mistake... god dammit, it looks good on you.

What? How?

[Jackofhearts2005]

How can you not like someone's answers you claim to have not received.
Those are incompatible.

Did I say I didn't like Nut's answer?

Maybe I meant I didn't like Nut's answer to my request for her to wow me, not the Fish/Bob/Jack thing she never answered. Or maybe her answer was so bad, I forgot I got one.

Whatever. She's maybe bad but I got a lot of bigger fish to fry.

You probably aren't Cerberus, but your reason for not being Reaper is malarkey.

Okay. Just wait til I find a toaster.

[Long Con]

Dude, you read wrong, but your mistake... god dammit, it looks good on you.

What? How?

Uh, the text I enlarged?

I don't choose to be a Reaper. I choose to win with them.

That's a big difference.

Not a big difference in all the ways that count.

[Long Con]

Dude, you read wrong, but your mistake... god dammit, it looks good on you.

What? How?

Ok, I think I misunderstood what you were saying, sorry. I'll give it another try.

[Long Con]

Long Con, this is why I'm having trouble trusting you anymore. Especially for someone who threw together a cheatsheet for the roles.
- "If you align with the Reapers, you will not join them in BTSC or be made aware of their identities. They will be made aware of yours."

This is directly from Geth's role. This implies that even if I were a Reaper, I wouldn't know of his existence unless he chose n1 and I was notified of him.

This means Epi - Didn't use the full allotted time to see which side was winning, and revealed his role information to us in-spite of being a baddie.

You actually believe that? You also think that Epi would choose to join the Reapers before n3? Why would Epi do that?

Epi himself pointed out that he can pick any time, it hadn't occurred to me that he might do that. And to "use the full allotted time to see which side was winning" is pretty when we're talking Night 3 here. I'll ask you who is winning on Night 3. Can't wait to hear the answer.

I do believe that Epi would choose to join the Reapers before the deadline. I've been pretty clear that I think it's the obvious smart move. Join the Reapers and claim to have joined the Alliance. Done, all bases covered.

[Long Con]

Again, sorry for my misunderstanding, I feel like I read your post up to that part and then hit Quote:

Long Con, this is why I'm having trouble trusting you anymore. Especially for someone who threw together a cheatsheet for the roles.
- "If you align with the Reapers, you will not join them in BTSC or be made aware of their identities. They will be made aware of yours."

This is directly from Geth's role. This implies that even if I were a Reaper, I wouldn't know of his existence

..like this.

[nutella]

Jack, what have you asked me that I didn't answer? I may have missed something; I don't deliberately ignore questions. Please direct me to your question if I have not answered it.


Epi's theory on LC is interesting, if a little tinfoily. I think the overanalysis of gfish's name-joke thing is kinda BS. Here's what comes up when I google "epignosis":



First you then a bunch of bible related stuff. It's pretty clearly used in religious contexts.


For wilgy's request for gfish teammates: I'm pretty strongly convinced Adam is on Cerberus for the reasons Dom covered. He town-read gfish for a while and followed him on the epi vote, and then suddenly turned around and bussed him. I also think Jack's case for SVS is pretty convincing; she has mentioned him very few times and when she has they were vague town reads.

It's also possible that both teammates, not just Adam, bussed toward the end when it became clear he was getting lynched, but I'd have to look back on those votes. Dom thought MP's was suspicious but I disagree based on MP's and Gfish's interaction earlier in the game.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Because based on Epi's role, he probably doesn't have btsc with the other Reapers.

It's not as much of a loss than yourself, especially when you are unsure of Epi.

JoH, I don't know the case on you. What I do know is that under pressure you didn't act like a dying civ.

I wasn't a dying civ.

Epi had more votes and then GFish had more votes.

There were three players (Dom, Silver and SVS) who were not interested in having an honest discussion about my alignment. There were two players (Sprityo and Fred, who fell off and was also confirmed) that said they didn't even scumread me but just wouldn't be able to trust me. There were also TSP and GFish who didn't vote for me until it was too late but they didn't provide real reading for voting for me over Epi or GFish.

Six votes (not counting Fred). Zero convincing reasons. Two alternative lynch targets were were obviously bad.

I was never in danger of being lynched and if I was wrong about that? The story writes itself. "Scum follows bullshit reasoning to save their buddy. Refuses to give reasons for lynching a townie. Gets caught and loses game."


Out of curiosity, how do you think a dying civ is supposed to act?

I'll say that I deliberately voted for you for reasons I'd rather not go into.