Mass Effect Mafia (END)

[DrWilgy]

Ok, so I'm thinking we send LC to kill Bob while I'll role block MP.

Hey!

Why didn't anyone comment on this? Wilgy tried to fakeslip and get me in trouble and no one even blinked an eye.

Get YOU in trouble? LC, it would've clearly gotten us in trouble.

I just think it's funny that Bob actually died.

[DrWilgy]

Apologies for the continued shit activity. It's been busy as fuck lately. I've hardly had time for anything.

I'll catch up in full sometime today I'm sure; I should have time.

Yeah, you be sorry you lean mean [size=.01]sexy[/size] mafia fighting machine.

[Long Con]

Ok, so I'm thinking we send LC to kill Bob while I'll role block MP.

Hey!

Why didn't anyone comment on this? Wilgy tried to fakeslip and get me in trouble and no one even blinked an eye.

Get YOU in trouble? LC, it would've clearly gotten us in trouble.

I just think it's funny that Bob actually died.

I don't think it is that funny. I've been the victim of this shit before. Thinking about it makes me a little mad.

Vote Wilgy

[DrWilgy]

Ok, so I'm thinking we send LC to kill Bob while I'll role block MP.

Hey!

Why didn't anyone comment on this? Wilgy tried to fakeslip and get me in trouble and no one even blinked an eye.

Get YOU in trouble? LC, it would've clearly gotten us in trouble.

I just think it's funny that Bob actually died.

I don't think it is that funny. I've been the victim of this shit before. Thinking about it makes me a little mad.

Vote Wilgy

Ok... are you lynching me for being bad or for making you mad?

At least it's not Epi.

I wonder were Sprityo went. Has JoH peeked his head in awhile?

[CaptainNifty]

I can't respond to Fred's car against me now because I'm out off the house and I gate posing from my phone - especially long posts. I didn't defend myself earlier because I thought it was just Feed, but since more people want an explanation, I'll give it.

[Fredwood]

So you wanted a role claim and information when your second best scum read gives shaky evidence, but when a strong town read has a large lists of grievances you just hope it goes away and withhold info, you know how you were saying Epi was scummy for withholding info.

I'm pretty sure I know what you you're going to claim, and admit it's a good claim, but the because you didn't do it before, in fact you completely dismissed me will trump the claim.

[Fredwood]

However, the claim is still easily proven even if you don't use it on me, unless your target doesn't get notified. Still think you would have targeted Wilgy last night, but w/e.

[sprityo]

What do you think on the Matter Sprit?

I see it as a WIFOM sitation where either Cerberus killed Dom to reflect bad on JoH so we lynch JoH who is still an enigma, or JoH is Cerberus and wants us to believe as such.

Or maybe a third option and I'm speaking in hypotheticals again.

So what do you gain from your question?

Mostly just wanted a second opinion about it, but it turns out you didn't really help me out at all so whatever.

i just took an outstanding 4 hour nap, so sorry about the late response

[DrWilgy]

What do you think on the Matter Sprit?

I see it as a WIFOM sitation where either Cerberus killed Dom to reflect bad on JoH so we lynch JoH who is still an enigma, or JoH is Cerberus and wants us to believe as such.

Or maybe a third option and I'm speaking in hypotheticals again.

So what do you gain from your question?

Mostly just wanted a second opinion about it, but it turns out you didn't really help me out at all so whatever.

i just took an outstanding 4 hour nap, so sorry about the late response

Sprit, opinion on what? You gave 3 views.

[Tangrowth]

Guess I should try to read this thing now.

[Tangrowth]

...I have 100 posts per page and 10 pages to read. So yeah. That's not happening. My time will be better used elsewhere.

[Epignosis]

...I have 100 posts per page and 10 pages to read. So yeah. That's not happening. My time will be better used elsewhere.

I read every single post you make. And you make a lot of them when you really don't need to.

[Tangrowth]

...I have 100 posts per page and 10 pages to read. So yeah. That's not happening. My time will be better used elsewhere.

I read every single post you make. And you make a lot of them when you really don't need to.

Oh, I have every intention of reading as much as I can. I just think I'll be doing ISOs or interactive analyses or something. Trying to speedread this shit after a long ass day in which I taught 4 hours and a bunch of other stuff is just not on the table for me.

What do you make of me then this game?

[Tangrowth]

FWIW, I'm loving playing this game with all of you while I have been around to do so. I wish I could be giving it a huge effort like I was on D1; my schedule has just gotten in the way. I'll see what I can do.

gfishfunk was bad. That means someone has to do interactive analyses. So they'll be coming up.

[Epignosis]

...I have 100 posts per page and 10 pages to read. So yeah. That's not happening. My time will be better used elsewhere.

I read every single post you make. And you make a lot of them when you really don't need to.

Oh, I have every intention of reading as much as I can. I just think I'll be doing ISOs or interactive analyses or something. Trying to speedread this shit after a long ass day in which I taught 4 hours and a bunch of other stuff is just not on the table for me.

What do you make of me then this game?

What do I make of you? I don't really make anything of you.

If you want some direction, I recommend going through Long Con and CaptainNifty.

You really do need to read the whole thing though for context.

[Tangrowth]

...I have 100 posts per page and 10 pages to read. So yeah. That's not happening. My time will be better used elsewhere.

I read every single post you make. And you make a lot of them when you really don't need to.

Oh, I have every intention of reading as much as I can. I just think I'll be doing ISOs or interactive analyses or something. Trying to speedread this shit after a long ass day in which I taught 4 hours and a bunch of other stuff is just not on the table for me.

What do you make of me then this game?

What do I make of you? I don't really make anything of you.

If you want some direction, I recommend going through Long Con and CaptainNifty.

You really do need to read the whole thing though for context.

Cool, thanks. I was planning on going alphabetically, but perhaps I'll hit them earlier than that.

If you can download this thing and insert it into my brain osmosis style, by all means. Until then, I'll have to discover context backwards.

[Epignosis]

...I have 100 posts per page and 10 pages to read. So yeah. That's not happening. My time will be better used elsewhere.

I read every single post you make. And you make a lot of them when you really don't need to.

Oh, I have every intention of reading as much as I can. I just think I'll be doing ISOs or interactive analyses or something. Trying to speedread this shit after a long ass day in which I taught 4 hours and a bunch of other stuff is just not on the table for me.

What do you make of me then this game?

What do I make of you? I don't really make anything of you.

If you want some direction, I recommend going through Long Con and CaptainNifty.

You really do need to read the whole thing though for context.

Cool, thanks. I was planning on going alphabetically, but perhaps I'll hit them earlier than that.

If you can download this thing and insert it into my brain osmosis style, by all means. Until then, I'll have to discover context backwards.

Foolish human.

You mean "diffusion." Not "osmosis."

[Tangrowth]

I don't really care.

[Long Con]

Long Con in da hoouuuuusse!

[Epignosis]

Long Con in da hoouuuuusse!

I don't really care.

[CaptainNifty]

Here's why Nifty is pinging me so hard, I figured I had to make a seperate post because a lot of things he did yesterday bothered me, and kept building.

[1]He was on the Epi pressure originally with gfish, despite his rainbow having gfish pretty low on his first rainbow list.

Spoiler: show

I_R
MP
LC
SVS
dom
dys
Fred
sprit
wigly
adam
Jack
TSP
Silver
nutella
gfish
Epi

Maybe this is different playstyle, but I really don't follow one of my biggest danger reads on a pressure train, even if it's on my strongest scum reads. Additionally there's no other additional information or explanation about his rainbow list aside from some generic statements in a previous post about gfish epi and myself. To me if you're gonna bother to do a rainbow, at least give people a chance to argue against it...dunno.

Spoiler: show

Bad town picks realizing that this is just my thought process: thellama73 (Don't tell me what to do), CaptainNifty (MovingPictures07), Jackofhearts2005 (MovingPictures07), and Adam (colonialbo). The commonality is that they all mentioned someone that had already been mentioned. (Yes, Adam, I was spamming so that the prior results were always close by). I hardly care who they picked, but I do care that they picked someone that already was posted. I give you a 90% chance one of these people is mafia.

I'm compelled to point out that this is ridiculous argument against me. I pointed out MP well before Jack did.

So Saren is in the game, I'm vanilla now.

Kinda sucks, not as much as EDI dying (sniff)

I didn't initially follow this, but Wigly(?) connected the dots for me. Still, Why would you jump to the Saren thing instead of reading your own damn role? This might have been a mistake (Lord knows I've made similar in mafia), but I don't think you'll ever be able to get out of the yellow now for me.

Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Epi is pinging me as well, and it's not a playstyle thing. If I had a roleblock I probably would have used it on him to. I know Syndicate people aren't used to info dump, but I'd like one from Epi. That's where my vote is going to go.

I think it's safe to assume we will lynch a baddie if we choose either Gfish today, or Hazelnut Spread friend.

Discuss.

While above I agree with gfish, that doesn't mean that he's not scum. I'm not sold hes civ. I'm leaning to them both as orange right now. I think there's a good chance one of them is scum, but I (and I hate to say this) agree with Jack that it is definitely not safe.

Unless you have some info or special insight - in which case please share.

For what it's worth, I don't think bob got killed because people read him as civ. bob got killed because someone from the Realms told their buddies that the longer bob stayed around the worse it would be for them. Jack is prone to having the town turn against him, I_R was too quiet yesterday to be a factor in the decision, gfish was too suspect to be a good target. I'm never a N1 kill, I don't become dangerous until the midgame. Silver is also under a lot of suspicion and is likely to set himself on fire and take people with him. From a Realms perspective a non-faction cbob or adam are the best first night, and adam has been off his game.

I'll post a rainbow in a bit.

[2]That's the only explanation he has for any of his rainbow.

His gfish suspicion seems weak at best, and it's in response to him calling him out. Putting him at the bottom of this list for no other reason then calling you out seems weak.

[3]Another interesting thing here is his statement about me never leaving yellow, but an hour later completely buys my fuck up as innocent after other players just dismiss it as being suspicious.

Spoiler: show

I can't trust my gut on Jack. There's just too much history, and there hasn't been enough play for me to point to anything that is just glaringly wrong.

My gut says Jack is scum, but my gut always says Jack is scum. Jack also feels less scummy than usual.

My gut just can't be trusted with Jack right now.

TSP however is acting more scummy. His read of me I think is completely off base. His read of adam and gfish also seem suspect.

Moving vote to TSP

I want to hear from Silver. His next post will determine if I vote for him or not.

I probably won't vote for you today at all. If your town your too valuable, and you've pinged enough people scum that if you are we can survive you another night. Out of the three of you I think Epi is the best lynch because he's safe, but right now I'm leaning silver.

I'm leaving my vote on TSP, because while I like that he's engaging, his reads are all bad.

[4]These post are all kinds of weird to me. The first one is literally the first post after Epi drops his Geth Bomb, it's not a linki, it's 10 minutes after Epi's post. So between the time Epi seemed to be claiming Vega, he switched from Epi to Jack, then the post after Epi plays a gambit, he switches to TSP...what?

The second quote is a response to Jack asking him of the choices between Jack, Epi and Fish who Nifty is most likely to vote for...He responds by saying he's probably going to vote for Silver, but he's going to keep his vote on TSP

[5]So there's 3 legitimate options to vote for, and in a direct question to who you're inclined to vote for you Say you're probably going to vote for a 4th one, but keep your vote on a 5th person? What?

Spoiler: show

With 5 and 5 on Epi and Jack, I need to take a side.

I'm voting Epi

[6]Couple of hours after the previous post, sticks to the belief that Epi is the best lynch between Gfish, Jack and Epi...furthering the safest lynch scenario that Gfish put forward. Also there was plenty of time to come on later and change his vote, in fact he did later, this is with 4 hours left in the phase. It wasn't time to take a stand.

Spoiler: show

Can we aim to at leas make Gfish the alternate wagon?

Hmm... a thought. I'm damn near a unanimous town read. Yet little to no one is voting with me.

Who legitimately thinks that I am just wrong out of this group.

Just because I trust that your town, doesn't mean I think your right.

Same with Fred. I'm 100% Fred is town. That doesn't make him right.

This post isn't important right now, but it will be later. The time of this post was 1pm when Wilgy is clearly pushing for a gfish lynch, and after I had stated Gfish as an alternative to the current lynch targets because WIlgy was so sure of him.

Spoiler: show

I think Epi is a better lynch than Jack, but I think gfish is a better lynch than Epi. I'll vote gfish

I would have earlier, but there didn't seem to be enough traction.

[7]This is his Fish vote, the writing is on the wall at this point. Epi lynch isn't going to happen, and Jack, Dys and I are changing our votes soon. It was stated in thread that we would. Timing doesn't give him credit like nutella's does.

Then his caveat about wanting to vote for him before but there not seeming to be enough traction. BS, Wilgy wanted people to join him earlier, you resisted it. You were asked specifically between 3 options of Epi, Jack and Gfish. You said Epi was better option, but also presented two other options for voting. At no point did you ever push for a Gfish lynch despite some minor bussing and a ceremonial place on your suspect lynch, you hardly mention Gfish.

Spoiler: show

I haven't paid enough attention to the roles, so I went back and re-read them. Here are a couple of things I noticed.

1) Only Alliance has access to roleblocks as far as a i can tell.
2) Both Cerberus and Reapers seem to have access to as much investigative powers as the town.
3) Cerberus can poison through Kai Leng which would also explain one kill last night because we have one more kill coming.

I realize this isn't scum hunting so I apologize, but if I missed these things other townies might have as well.

1) There is a Cerberus role:

Oleg Petrovsky
You are an experienced and formidable military strategist focused on the preservation of humanity. Three times during the game during any separate night phases, you may select a player. That player’s role will not function.

That sounds like a roleblock to me.

2) What does this mean to you - why is it notable, from your perspective?

3) Good point that I hadn't factored in. Guess we'll know soon enough! I don't know if it's the type of one-shot that needs to get used early though.

1) I just crl+F "roleblock". I'll have to revise my search.
2) I think this is notable because it gives scum cover. Scum is empowered to scum hunt. This needs to be noted that just because a cop catches someone doesn't mean that cop is civ.

This last post isn't really proof, but it's the first thing that rubbed me the wrong way. I can buy the mistake of not thinking scum didn't have a roleblock. It could possibly be dissemination.

[8]The bigger problem for me was the last part feels like he's trying to preemptively discredit cops, when everyone already knows scum will have cops. Even a scum cop that catches other scum is still good for the town. It feels a very strange thing to bring up in response to a role block


Anyway...that's why Nifty is where he is. Any comments, critiques, rebuttals. Am I crazy or do other people think there is something here?

Also

That's my first ISO you guys!!! hooray

I've numbered the things I'm responding to. If I miss any important points let me know, and I'll come back to it.

[1] Yes, gfish was low on my list, but as I've stated just because a person is high on my list doesn't mean they're right, and just because they're low doesn't make them wrong. I was following Epi because gfish claimed to have blocked someone and their was only one kill. In the Realms this is a lead. I wanted to follow it. Epi was combative, abrasive, and evasive, this didn't look good for him. I followed the information, not the person.

[2] Rainbows are relatively new in my mafia toolbelt. I rarely explain them, but would have been happy to had anyone asked, and I will offer more explanation in the future.

[3]Again, I followed the information. You screwed up. We all do. In Realms terms you had a reverse OMAC. It worked for me. Enough people posted that convinced me I was stupid for not buying your claim. I stopped being stupid (about that).

[4]I had been trying to respond for awhile, but class kept getting in the way. I decided to submit the post anyway without catching up on the thread.

[5]I answered the question asked, and then offered additional information. Out of the 3 Jack proposed, Epi was my preferred lynch. I was voting for TSP partially defensively and because his earlier posts had bothered me. I was not feeling particularly strongly about this vote and was willing to move it to Silver (who Jack had also asked about in a separate post) depending on what else was said.

[6]It was 2:15. My class would end in 30 minutes, then it's after school duty until 3:30. Then there's always the chance that admin needs something during that last 30 minutes. Then it's 20 minutes home. Then I get home and have a wife, 4 kids, dog and 7 ducks who might or might not need some level of attention. So yeah, 4 hours left in the phase was time to take a stand because I didn't know if I would have time to vote again.

[7]While Wigly had asked for votes on fish prior to that the only ones over there were Epi and nutella. While Wigly definitely seems to be civ, Epi was an all but confirmed hostile neutral, and nutella was a major scum read for everybody. I didn't really want to jump on that train. However, Wigly got some verbal commitments, so I moved my vote. You weren't exactly excited to move there yourself

Spoiler: show

Fredwood, can you change your vote?

I'd prefer a lack of shenanigans.

lol sigh I guess....I don't like that I'm on it with only one green ping, a null, two flaming spicy read and a known neutral...but w/e.

If you're not town then I'm boned anyway, let's see how your gut plays out I guess.



I'm a sheep

[8]I promise this post had no motivation other than to pass on my own observations. Scum seem to be just as good at hunting scum if not better. To give some more observations, I actually think the Reapers have a bit of an advantage. Cerberus has one that cops as Alliance, and Alliance has at least 2 that cop as Cerberus. This isn't to say don't trust cops. You always trust the cop until you can't, but I was making an observation. I have said many times that the town is better off when it shares information. That's all I was doing.

So you wanted a role claim and information when your second best scum read gives shaky evidence, but when a strong town read has a large lists of grievances you just hope it goes away and withhold info, you know how you were saying Epi was scummy for withholding info.

I'm pretty sure I know what you you're going to claim, and admit it's a good claim, but the because you didn't do it before, in fact you completely dismissed me will trump the claim.

I don't think gfish's evidence was shaky (at least not by Realms' standards), and it wasn't just gfish's evidence. Epi had been pinging me since his nighttime conversation with Long Con. I didn't do this breakdown because as I said originally, I didn't think that anything I could say would be satisfactory to you. You still haven't said what would make you happy with me. I would have offered it if you had said. I would have tried for Wigly, but you were the one who was doubting me, so I thought it would go further with you, plus scum certainly wouldn't be expecting you to do something.

[Long Con]

Long Con in da hoouuuuusse!

I don't really care.

I still think you're cool.

[Tangrowth]

Interactive analysis of gfishfunk and Adam

Things Adam said about/to gfishfunk

Spoiler: show

No voting Day 0, correct?

I haven't even read the rules yet. I can access the site from work and I'll have plenty of downtime Monday.

Can we vote no lynch?

Why in the world would we want to vote no lynch?

I'm asking, not suggesting.

Good cooperation on the MP wagon. If he's town, we can blame Wilgy.
Also, don't think no lynch is a choice, since it's not an option in the poll.

I thought I would throw a vote on him to see what he would do.

Is this a game that you can power claim, name claim, action claim, alliance claim, and everything? I assume so, but I don't want to get mod-killed or whatever your equivalent is.

I'm assuming you can based on

4. Role outing and info-dumping are allowed. The game is designed to incorporate this.

but I'd welcome a confirmation.

I don't discern anything from this interaction.

Spoiler: show

Posting a reads list, this was most of the way though Page 6, I still have to catch up. Are post numbers visible somewhere I'm just not seeing them?

Slightly Town:
colonialbob: Participating early and often, unafraid to lead discussion and ask questions
gfishfunk: More aggressive than normal. I'm interpreting that as town but it doesn't have to be.

Uncertain:
S~V~S: At first I felt like the how many ME games are there discussion was making a mountain out of a molehill, but I liked the most recent post I saw responding to MP, so one plus and one minus gets me back to uncertain
Jackofhearts2005: Typical blustery. I'd see both town/scum Jack posting meta reads. Drunk posting makes me more inclined to believe he's town, but I wouldn't put it past scum Jack to fake drunk posting.
Long Con: I like his interactions with Bob, Silver, and S~V~S, but the rhymes and the images posted seem more like distractions.
Dyslexicon: A lot of fluff posts, but also a post that is more substantive than anything anyone else has put out, so I'm not sure what to make of playstyle yet
MovingPictures07: TBD; Swamping the thread when I started compiling my reads, haven't really looked through his recent posts yet

Slightly scum:
Fredwood: A lot of early on joking-around posts, hasn't been back since the thread picked up though
DrWilgy: Has asked a lot of questions but hasn't really provided his own opinions
thellama73: Seemed to deliberately misinterpret LC's question to Bob
Silver_Lantern: So far mostly involved in that discussion about how many ME games there are
CaptainNifty: A little too prickly for my liking at this point

Null reads: Not enough content yet
TonyStarkPrime
Immortal_Raven
nutella
Dom
sprityo
Epignosis

Noncommittal town read of gfish. This isn't ideal. I would assert that a gfish teammate would be likely to push the narrative that gfish is town early on, while still keeping it open to change in the future.

Spoiler: show

*Snip*
I read this as cozying. I think mafia-JoH posts like this, not town JoH. On the other hand you are also acting a little ambassador-ish. All the nice stuff was to syndicate.
*Snip*
ambassador-ish and promoting inter-community gaming. (See, like that with the double speak).

I actually almost wrote "ambassadory" on my reads list on Jack.

I actually almost wrote "ambassadory" on my reads list on Jack.

Heh. I'll mark that in JoH's favor.

Who is here from the realms with a different name?

Just me, I think. And I wouldn't call it different, just abbreviated.

Nada.

Spoiler: show

Updated

Here is an idea. (I post them as I think of them)

Post ONE player you think is likely town. Very simple. If you say yourself, I vote for you.

mine: colonialbob.

Choices for Most Town Read:

gfishfunk - colonialbob
MovingPictures07 - DrWilgy
Long Con - MovingPictures07
Silver Lantern - gfishfunk
thellama73 - Don't tell me what to do
CaptainNifty - MovingPictures07
Jackofhearts2005 - MovingPictures07

People who have yet to respond:
Adam
colonialbob
Dom
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
nutella
sprityo
S~V~S
TonyStarkPrime

Do you really need to post updates with this frequency? It's like spam.

colonialbob is my choice.[/quote]

A bit of a charged response to gfish here. I could go either way on whether it's genuine or distancing, but GTH I like it.

Spoiler: show

Bad town picks realizing that this is just my thought process: thellama73 (Don't tell me what to do), CaptainNifty (MovingPictures07), Jackofhearts2005 (MovingPictures07), and Adam (colonialbo). The commonality is that they all mentioned someone that had already been mentioned. (Yes, Adam, I was spamming so that the prior results were always close by). I hardly care who they picked, but I do care that they picked someone that already was posted. I give you a 90% chance one of these people is mafia.

Maybe you didn't notice, but I posted a full list of reads, including two town picks, right before you started playing your game. If anything, you copied me.

A similar response to the previous. I'm not sure I believe it's genuine as much this time around though. Reads a bit like softball distancing.

Spoiler: show

Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Quite the leap there. Alenko, Legion, either could have been at play, not to mention all the roles with once or twice powers.

That's even if the second killer or any of those roles are in the game.

It is just as possible that the killer did not send his/her PM if in the game. And Wrex is the actual bodyguard. Bob's role was a non lethal protection role.

It is certainly possible, but it is one possibility amongst many.

Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Quite the leap there. Alenko, Legion, either could have been at play, not to mention all the roles with once or twice powers.

That's even if the second killer or any of those roles are in the game.

It is just as possible that the killer did not send his/her PM if in the game. And Wrex is the actual bodyguard. Bob's role was a non lethal protection role.

It is certainly possible, but it is one possibility amongst many.

This is standard practice at the realms: expecting two kills and one doesn't go through? Especially if the doctor is known to be dead? You immediately go to the blocked targets.

Its cool if you don't jump to that same conclusion, but the outright dismissal of playstyles is frankly getting old.

REAPERS (3 roles)
They share behind the scenes communication. Win the game by eliminating the Alliance, Cerberus, and any hostile independents.
They kill on Nights 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12 (and so on with even-numbered nights)

CERBERUS (3 roles)
They share behind the scenes communication. Win the game by eliminating the Alliance, the Reapers, and any hostile independents.
They kill on Nights 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 13 (and so on with odd-numbered nights)

Two kills on night 1.

My primary concern with Hazelnut is her lack of content and her civ read of me.

Past games quick glance
Phenon > Nut is Civ > Reads me bad
Currents > Nut is civ > Unsure of me
Here > Nut is unknown > Town reads me

This is also with her knowing that I still want my revenge from phenon. (I didn't get it in currents, and even made it known that I missed my chance). Makes me think she doesn't want to fight me.

Her uncertainty d1 however, is something I'm used to with her.

I'd like to know why Gfish would hard claim role blocker with no doctor.

I'd like to know why Gfish would hard claim role blocker with no doctor.

Because I'm scum hunting?

I don't understand why you WOULDN'T say that you role blocked someone when fewer kills than expected occurred and you KNOW the doctor is gone. There is a good chance you blocked a kill, meaning that there is a good chance you hit scum.

There are OTHER possibilities, but this is a pretty good lead.

Right now, my topic scum pick is Epignosis for a simple reason.

Epi was pinging some of the syndicate and did not vote. I targeted Epi with a role block. Only one kill occurred last night, and there should have been two (see the roles in he beginning). With no doctor and no bodyguard, the lack of a kill is indicative of a role block.

Quite the leap there. Alenko, Legion, either could have been at play, not to mention all the roles with once or twice powers.

That's even if the second killer or any of those roles are in the game.

It is just as possible that the killer did not send his/her PM if in the game. And Wrex is the actual bodyguard. Bob's role was a non lethal protection role.

It is certainly possible, but it is one possibility amongst many.

This is standard practice at the realms: expecting two kills and one doesn't go through? Especially if the doctor is known to be dead? You immediately go to the blocked targets.

Its cool if you don't jump to that same conclusion, but the outright dismissal of playstyles is frankly getting old.

So you immediately rely on circumstantial evidence. When a third of the population missed the vote.

Forgive me if I too do not think highly of your "playstyle."

So you immediately rely on circumstantial evidence. When a third of the population missed the vote.

Forgive me if I too do not think highly of your "playstyle."

Neat use of quotes.

You were posting actively up through the end of the phase so I targeted you. Its circumstantial -- like all other evidence in mafia. I blocked you, we are missing a kill. Is that really your response? Deflect and insult the person that revealed information and is trying to provoke discussion?

Playing with multiquoting

I'm assuming this is a bit of a clash of playstyles situation, as my understanding is that normal games here forbid role claiming. But I don't like the hand-waving that's coming out as a result of gfish's info. He has given us a lead; no it's not definitive; yes, there are other explanations as to why there was only one kill the previous night. But we should ignore the fact that a kill was missing and we know who was roleblocked?

I am voting epignosis for now. I am also intrigued to see so many jumping to his defense so readily, when the only way they would know he didn't attempt a kill is if they were teammates.

This isn't really so much about gfish but does talk about gfish's supposed info. He followed it.

Spoiler: show

That was almost impossible to read. Not sure how you did it

And I am not defending Epi; I am pointing out other possiblities when someone appears to be leaping to a conclusion imo. Apparently funkyfish has been taking some suspish and he is actually a civ read for me, so I want him to be sure of himself.

Ha, yeah, I'm not a huge fan of large multiquoted posts generally, but some of this discussion required it with multiple threads weaving in and out. Probably won't do another ugly monster like that anytime soon.

Sure, it's not like Epi was caught red handed by a cop or a reverse tracker making a kill. I don't think gfish is leaping to a conclusion, I think he's exploring a lead. At this point I doubt gfish is dead set on lynching Epi, although he's probably closer than he was when he first posted his info.

While we have votes. One of the 3 Epi voters are bad.

3 from the same site. Momentum is in thier favor. These things don't line up like this if they were civ.

Adam, Nifty, and Gfish, what do you think of this?

This is SOP. We call it pressure voting. If this were a game on HCR you would expect to see a number of pressure votes placed following a lead like gfish's block on a night where a kill was missing. Of course there we have majority lynches instead of plurality, so I'd expect the train to get to around 4-5 votes while waiting for a response from the person pressured. A satisfactory response will get votes removed; an unsatisfactory response will see more votes applied.

If anything, you see mafia teammates trying to jump onto a pressure train early in case their teammate ends up getting lynched, so that they look better when the autopsy comes up and have a good voting record.

Further discussion of the gfish infodump. Not sure this is a good look.

Spoiler: show

So, Freud would say you think Epi is fake-claiming, is that correct?

I assume you mean me as Fred is more suspicious of me than Epi.

I inherently find hint claiming suspicious. I don't think s/he is fake claiming. I don't think s/he is claiming at all and hiding behind righteous ambiguity.

I think he literally meant Sigmund Freud. Slip of the tongue/keyboard and all that.

Spoiler: show

How does that work in this environment?

I'm not entirely sure yet. That's really the fun of a crossover game, isn't it?

So, now instead of explaining the wagon with the most votes as a pressure, how about you tell me what you think of Gfish and Nifty? How do you feel about them being the only 2 voting with you?

They're both playing as I expect them to. Nifty's gotten a lot better recently with his tells and behaving consistently no matter his alignment. I started off reading him a little on the scum side, but I don't know if that's recency bias or not. Gfish has been playing loud, but nothing he's done so far is inconsistent with how he would play as town. He also tends to intentionally play as a scum-seeming townie, which provides him with cover when he's bad.

This role block of Epi tells me: Someone definitely role blocked (or attempted to role block) Epi

I see multiple scenarios for how gfish would act
1) If gfish was a town RB, I would expect him to call out Epi, especially if it was a one-shot RB
2) If gfish was mafia in a game with only one mafia, I don't think he would out the target of his RB because he knows it would be town
3) In this game with two mafias, and gfish was on one of the two mafias and thought he stopped the opposing mafia's kill with a RB, he would definitely fight full force to get that player lynched and be a successful scum hunter.

If in the end gfish had not backed off of Epi, I think he would be mafia, but based on how easily he let it go once Epi claimed, my inclination is that gfish is town.

Further discussion of gfish motivations. Still thinks gfish is town.

Spoiler: show

I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.

I think we should opt to have him replaced soon if he doesn't show

I believe he posted once during this phase so far.

3 times at the beginning of this phase in fact. I don't want him replaced yet.

@Adam

Specifically, what posts that SVS has made do you like and why?

Is there a way to get post numbers or am I going to have to do this the hard way?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/postin ... 1326&f=194

Its in the normal place. Same as the realms.

No, I didn't mean the post count of the players. I mean, what number is this post, and can I go back and refer to a particular post by number instead of having to quote each one I want to list.

Perhaps this is a nitpicky observation, but I do find it increasingly strange and a tad suspicious just the sheer amount of interactions like this (and by this I mean relatively inconsequential and just making chit chat) that Adam has with gfish. Perhaps someone from HCR can attest as to how normal it is for Adam and gfish to regularly interact in thread.

Spoiler: show

Fred is taking the lead as confirmed town and I like it.

Epi being non-town makes me suspect gfish a little more. Scum gfish only makes the blocked kill gambit if he thinks he's caught other scum.

I like Epi's gambit. Those pushing for his lynch now are most likely Cerberus, I'm thinking. Easy non-mafia lynch.

Dom seems extraordinarily focused on Jack. Wilgy seems almost as focused on gfish. I feel like gfish and Jack haven't interacted as much as on Day 2 as on Day 1. Possibly teammates? I could definitely see a mafia with Jack and gfish going for cbob night 1.
Not sure how I feel about Dom. Wilgy seems townish to me. I also like S~V~S's play so far.

I like that TSP is getting in the game a bit. I haven't seen much from sprityo but what I'm seen feels civ. Dyslexicon seems less involved today than yesterday. nutella I'm still unsure about. I also haven't seen mp much today.

I don't like that Silver hasn't contributed much of anything so far. I like Fred's analysis of that situation.

After Epi's claim, Adam starts backpedaling on gfish, specifically saying that it makes him "suspect gfish a little more". I find this wording suspicious at face value given Adam doesn't seem to suspect gfish at all previously.

Spoiler: show

Pairs of players who are not mafia teammates:

Jack and Dom
Jack and SVS
Silver and SVS
Silver and Jack
Gfish and Epi
Long Con and Epi
Nifty and TSP
DrWilgy and gfish

Not as long of a list as I thought it would be.

I'm not sure what inspired this set of conclusions. Perhaps Adam can elaborate here.

Spoiler: show

Switch vote to gfish

His D2 vote switch for gfish.

Spoiler: show

Awesome result! I'll do some investigating later to see if I can figure out who might be gfish's teammates, I bet there's a busser or two in the last few votes. Maybe Adam, he voted with no real explanation and had some suspicious interaction with gfish earlier re: voting for epi.

Wilgy, why do you think I'm reaper??
Ftr I think Silver is probably reaper especially after what he said about epi siding with town.

I'm also the one who pointed out that gfish was either town thinking he blocked a kill or mafia that had discovered opposing scum. This was before Epi's Geth reveal. Why would I plant that seed if I was with gfish?

Adam responds to nutella's speculation that Adam might be a gfish teammate.

Spoiler: show

Why Adam Might Be Cerberus

Adam, leading up to gfish's lynch, made five posts in which he mentioned gfish.

Post #1: A Read List where he lists him as a civ read.

Here, he takes the side of gfish against epignosis.

"my inclination is that gfish is town"

With very little explanation, his read switches to bad.

His vote on gfish

It's not very little explanation.

I laid it out in an earlier post. If there were only one mafia, a scum gfish would not have come out with the RB against Epi. But in a two mafia game, he would definitely do that if he thought he found someone on the other scum team. A possibly-Reaper aligned neutral fits that.

After Epi's tuck and roll claim was brought to light, and I thought Epi was town, I assumed gfish was also town, because I couldn't see mafia gfish going after a townie that hard on a RB. I assumed gfish was town that made a mistake. When it turned out Epi is a possibly town-hostile neutral, it made me think gfish is more likely scum, because scum gfish will make a big play to try and lynch rival scum and earn himself town cred.
What do we think?

Adam responds to Dom's speculation regarding Adam being a gfish teammate. Dom is now dead.

Spoiler: show

How does that work in this environment?

I'm not entirely sure yet. That's really the fun of a crossover game, isn't it?

So, now instead of explaining the wagon with the most votes as a pressure, how about you tell me what you think of Gfish and Nifty? How do you feel about them being the only 2 voting with you?

They're both playing as I expect them to. Nifty's gotten a lot better recently with his tells and behaving consistently no matter his alignment. I started off reading him a little on the scum side, but I don't know if that's recency bias or not. Gfish has been playing loud, but nothing he's done so far is inconsistent with how he would play as town. He also tends to intentionally play as a scum-seeming townie, which provides him with cover when he's bad.

This role block of Epi tells me: Someone definitely role blocked (or attempted to role block) Epi

I see multiple scenarios for how gfish would act
1) If gfish was a town RB, I would expect him to call out Epi, especially if it was a one-shot RB
2) If gfish was mafia in a game with only one mafia, I don't think he would out the target of his RB because he knows it would be town
3) In this game with two mafias, and gfish was on one of the two mafias and thought he stopped the opposing mafia's kill with a RB, he would definitely fight full force to get that player lynched and be a successful scum hunter.

If in the end gfish had not backed off of Epi, I think he would be mafia, but based on how easily he let it go once Epi claimed, my inclination is that gfish is town.

This first post took place after Epi had (hint)claimed town and before he claimed Geth. It was an analysis made on the belief that Epignosis was town.

Fred is taking the lead as confirmed town and I like it.

Epi being non-town makes me suspect gfish a little more. Scum gfish only makes the blocked kill gambit if he thinks he's caught other scum.

I like Epi's gambit. Those pushing for his lynch now are most likely Cerberus, I'm thinking. Easy non-mafia lynch.

Dom seems extraordinarily focused on Jack. Wilgy seems almost as focused on gfish. I feel like gfish and Jack haven't interacted as much as on Day 2 as on Day 1. Possibly teammates? I could definitely see a mafia with Jack and gfish going for cbob night 1.
Not sure how I feel about Dom. Wilgy seems townish to me. I also like S~V~S's play so far.

I like that TSP is getting in the game a bit. I haven't seen much from sprityo but what I'm seen feels civ. Dyslexicon seems less involved today than yesterday. nutella I'm still unsure about. I also haven't seen mp much today.

I don't like that Silver hasn't contributed much of anything so far. I like Fred's analysis of that situation.

This second post is after Epi revealed as Geth. The fact that the player gfish was gunning for was non-town made it far more likely in my eyes that gfish's mafia discovered Epi was not town and wanted to lynch him.

If I were gfish's Cerberus teammate, I would not have so easily backed off Epi in the first place if I thought he was lying about being town, and I would have jumped right back onto Epi's train when it turned out he was Geth. Most of the day was spent with the largest trains on Jack and Epignosis, and it would have been really easy and justified for me to park on the Epi train and stay there, but I never did. If I was Cerberus, I would absolutely want Geth gone and pushing for it. It's such an easy case to make as Cerberus. Gfish's teammates are almost assuredly voting for Epignosis after he came out as Geth.

Adam further responds to accusations that he is a gfish teammate. I'm not a fan of the orange. I don't buy it.

=======================================================================================================

Things gfishfunk said about/to Adam

Spoiler: show

Adam - if this is adamical: he is a solid player with a tendency to lurk or say nothing of substance for large stretches and then break open a game.

CaptainNifty - good instincts. I usually tend to read him as town regardless of alignment so I guess that means he plays scum well.

colonialbob - posts

Dom - The guy from MegaTokyo?

DrWilgy - Dr. Wiley's less stationary sibling

Dyslexicon - is that like a sexy lexicon?

Epignosis - has knowledge of of the spiritual realm above, if names are to be believed.

Fredwood - Another player I have trouble reading. Tends to follow others who are leading discussions, if I remember correctly, but doesn't follow blindly.

gfishfunk - myself: usually one of the top posters, even if I have limited access. People say I think outside the box (JoH mentioned it in his read) and I protest that I think things through differently. In real life, I'm a lawyer.

Immortal_Raven - my real-life friend that does D&D with me every other week. We tend to either go after each other or ignore each other. He always, always, always makes me suspicious though. He tends to be noncommittal to any theory in game, which always raises my hackles.

Jackofhearts2005 - Tries to run the show, which is at least consistent. Everything he says sounds smart but its really just noisy.

Long Con - I have nothing witty to say about this person. It can be argued that I haven't said anything witty yet, either.

MovingPictures07 - Threw down a read super early on very little, which leads me to believe that s/he is trying to generate an air of competence and expertise with the players new to the forum, and set expectations. Can't say whether its good or bad.

nutella - delicious.

Silver Lantern - The only thing that needs to be said: A bull on fire in a flammable china shop. The thing that probably shouldn't be said: if I knew the guy in real life we would have a total bromance. I hope this doesn't make things awkward. When he lurks, he is scum.

sprityo - Epignosis' more down to earth friend.

S~V~S - Someone that needs help but messed up their morse code

thellama73 - I respect llamas and all nature.

TonyStarkPrime - Tends to come off as scummy even when not. Normally a bit of a quieter player.

I thought I would throw a vote on him to see what he would do.

gfish, this is what you said regarding your vote on me.

You now say I'm your highest scum read.

I'm not sure I believe you. Your explanation here indicates that your vote is out of pure pressure, but then you seem to be forcing your more recent posts into an actual suspicion of me. Explain how that thought process developed if you don't mind.

You are correct. I wanted to see how you would respond and I don't like your response.

I don't like how you indicated that JoH's post was pointless: lets call it a Meta-list. I wish to turn it into a game and see how people respond. You questioned its value and then several posts later discussed llama's day 1 habits - something that shows the Meta-list to be useful. Your avoidance of making a Meta-list is suspicious to me.

If it helps, Long Con is my most scum read at the moment. That Meta-list is totally non-revealing. Its a response that shows participation without providing substance. Nifty's Meta-list also struck me: I said adamcial is a bit of a lurker and he copied it into his. Adamical is not a lurker, he tends to have one of the higher post counts in a game. I wanted to see who called me out on it and was surprised when Nifty copied it.

This is an intriguing set of posts regarding Adam. In the first, gfish lays down his meta reads and provides a sort of semi-slank cover for Adam, which could be teammate compatible. But then he turns around and says it was a ploy, that he was lying, and he wanted to see if anyone corrected him. So... not sure how to interpret this.

Spoiler: show

I actually almost wrote "ambassadory" on my reads list on Jack.

Heh. I'll mark that in JoH's favor.

Who is here from the realms with a different name?

I am voting thellama

He's at the intersection of the Venn diagram of players I have scum reads on and players who have votes on them. I also think it's a little weird that more people aren't interested in Long Con and llama's back and forth, almost like some people are studiously avoiding getting involved.

I don't have enough reads on Long Con yet, and Llama I've gone back and forth on.

Stuff.

Spoiler: show

The diagram was just my way of pointing out that the only person who has votes out of my scum reads was llama, which is why i went that direction. I posted some reads a few hours ago, and haven't seen anything from llama to flip him out of the bottom chunk of the list.

As to who's avoiding getting involved, it's no one specific but the discussion as a whole. S~V~S commented on it, I noticed. But LC and llama are both making very strong meta allegations at the other, much stronger than most of the other verbal sparring we've seen so far. I would just expect more people to have chimed in on it at least a little bit, especially those who have more experience with the Syndicate meta.

Alright, seems I missed your reads. For me, I can feel myself being biased towards Llama cause I just like him, which should not interfere with my judgement ideally. I think LC is town, so I am paying attention to what he's saying. I also feel Llama hasn't really made a strong alligation as much as he was retorted, if that makes sense.

I'm putting Dyslexicon in my strong town reads.

Llama, JoH, or Adam as my strongest scum reads...but......

I would lynch Immortal_Raven for failing to post straight up.

I'm putting Dyslexicon in my strong town reads.

Llama, JoH, or Adam as my strongest scum reads...but......

I would lynch Immortal_Raven for failing to post straight up.

Can you explain your Adam read? Going to see if you've mentioned Jack earlier.
Overall the participation is a bit lower than I expected. But most games have their lurkers.

I actually misspoke about Adam, I was thinking of Nifty.

JoH I've gone back and forth on. I think he has tripped up or gotten myopic within the last two hours and that makes him look bad. His prior cozying was actually ambassidoring between our sites -- or so I can rationalize. Not sure where he is at in the spectrum, and I'm definitely waivering.

Adam has been occupying my mental space which is why I mentioned him instead of Nifty. Adam has been saying a lot of things that I have been thinking, but not substantively. Vin diagrams for voting (who has a vote on them that I would like to lynch?).

DrWigly has my hackles raised but because he is poking me in an otherwise very town way. I should just move on from that for now.

Its easier to say who I think is scummy from the realms, but less so with syndicaters. Still time to vote.

Here gfish names Adam as a top scum read, then rescinds it after questioned, saying he really meant Nifty.

Spoiler: show

I'm going to suggest that others who have played more with him answer this, but Silver as maf tends to play things off more and be a little less direct while maintaining a general offensive persona, where town Silver can and sometimes will verbally assault you for voting for him.

I second this. Silver Town has a gallon jub of gasoline. Silver Scum is reserved (for Silver).

Where does Silver who told me my post is garbage come in on the spectrum?

He has very much felt to me like a person who wishes to squash discussion.

That is very, very mild Silver Lantern. I mean, he is not an unhinged psychopath but there is a reason I called him a bull on fire in a flamable china shop. The fact that he is being more subdued makes me edgy.

@ DrWigly: I did plenty with the info. I didn't like Llamas absolute refusal without discussion, whereas I liked your refusal without discussion.

Bad town picks realizing that this is just my thought process: thellama73 (Don't tell me what to do), CaptainNifty (MovingPictures07), Jackofhearts2005 (MovingPictures07), and Adam (colonialbo). The commonality is that they all mentioned someone that had already been mentioned. (Yes, Adam, I was spamming so that the prior results were always close by). I hardly care who they picked, but I do care that they picked someone that already was posted. I give you a 90% chance one of these people is mafia.

The post made it look like llama was painting me bad without actually providing any reason for non-participation. llama's pick was bad (imo) because llama didn't state anything except an offhanded denial.

Good town picks: Dyslexicon (Nutella), DrWilgy (No no, nopey nopey no, no no). Dyslexicon threw out a person that no one else zeroed in on and gave a read. That's town behavior. DrWilgy fought against the game and provided discussion. I view that as town behavior as well.

My reasoning might be wrong, I might be way off in my thinking, but I did use the information and consider it.

Both have happened. In the majority of our setups, a kill attempt is mandatory from the mafia (or both mafias, as the case may sometimes be).

Mafia members tend to be included in the random roll, which increases pressure to get folks submitting actions.

I didn't find his hint claim to be flexible.

James Vega
You are an experienced Marine of the Systems Alliance, strong of will and heart but also naive the political underpinnings of galactic relations.

You have access to a number of one-shot abilities which may be used during any separate night phases:

Carnage - Selected player will begin the following day phase with one extra vote
Frag grenade - Selected player and all players targeting or being targeted by that player the same night will each have a 50% chance of being role blocked.
Tuck and roll - You will be immune to all non-lethal night actions this night.

Well gold star for you in figuring that out. as you may have guessed, I didn't.

Also possible explanation: Kai Leng's one shot commute (does the same thing), but its otherwise a fairly solid claim. Either way, I'll remove my vote.

I am removing my vote from Epi and placing it on Raven

I want to see some more posts from IR.

How active is Raven normally?

Nifty, Gfish, how do you feel about Adam's swap?.

Adam's swap: I'm totally neutral with it. Pressure votes on an absent player sometimes help, mostly if that player is lurking rather than posting. If that were all that I_R posted today, I would likely vig him. Adam's vote is sort of SOP as well from a realms perspective.

Linki - Neat. Now let's just band together and lymch Gfish

My my DrWilgy, are you tunneling me? That's sorta my think with Epi and I wouldn't want Epi jealous.

Dom seems extraordinarily focused on Jack. Wilgy seems almost as focused on gfish. I feel like gfish and Jack haven't interacted as much as on Day 2 as on Day 1. Possibly teammates? I could definitely see a mafia with Jack and gfish going for cbob night 1.

I focused on Epi early phase, and then tried to engage both Immortal_Raven and Silver. I chatted with some others without really saying much of anything. I wasn't as interested in engaging people that were already engaged.

@Adam

Specifically, what posts that SVS has made do you like and why?

Is there a way to get post numbers or am I going to have to do this the hard way?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/postin ... 1326&f=194

Its in the normal place. Same as the realms.

More stuff. I don't like the way gfish treats Adam in here, specifically when he tries to write off Adam's behavior as SOP and neutral.

=======================================================================================================

I would say Adam exhibits teammate indicative behavior. I would consider lynching him today.

[Tangrowth]

That took too long. Multitasking fail. I now have to go. Be back tomorrow.

I'm voting Adam for now. Looking into Nifty and LC upon my return with high priority.

[Canucklehead]

Hi.
I used to play mafia. I miss it!
Also, my husband was on the team that made the original Mass Effect.
Therefore, I am cool by proxy and should've signed up for this game.
Now back to your regularly scheduled slaughter...

[Long Con]

Hi.
I used to play mafia. I miss it!
Also, my husband was on the team that made the original Mass Effect.
Therefore, I am cool by proxy and should've signed up for this game.
Now back to your regularly scheduled slaughter...

Canuuuuuuuuuuck!!

This is the lady that craftily got the whole baddie team to out themselves in Roger Rabbit. Brilliant! And Canadian, so that's always a plus.

[Fredwood]

Spoiler: show

I've numbered the things I'm responding to. If I miss any important points let me know, and I'll come back to it.

[1] Yes, gfish was low on my list, but as I've stated just because a person is high on my list doesn't mean they're right, and just because they're low doesn't make them wrong. I was following Epi because gfish claimed to have blocked someone and their was only one kill. In the Realms this is a lead. I wanted to follow it. Epi was combative, abrasive, and evasive, this didn't look good for him. I followed the information, not the person.

[2] Rainbows are relatively new in my mafia toolbelt. I rarely explain them, but would have been happy to had anyone asked, and I will offer more explanation in the future.

[3]Again, I followed the information. You screwed up. We all do. In Realms terms you had a reverse OMAC. It worked for me. Enough people posted that convinced me I was stupid for not buying your claim. I stopped being stupid (about that).

[4]I had been trying to respond for awhile, but class kept getting in the way. I decided to submit the post anyway without catching up on the thread.

[5]I answered the question asked, and then offered additional information. Out of the 3 Jack proposed, Epi was my preferred lynch. I was voting for TSP partially defensively and because his earlier posts had bothered me. I was not feeling particularly strongly about this vote and was willing to move it to Silver (who Jack had also asked about in a separate post) depending on what else was said.

[6]It was 2:15. My class would end in 30 minutes, then it's after school duty until 3:30. Then there's always the chance that admin needs something during that last 30 minutes. Then it's 20 minutes home. Then I get home and have a wife, 4 kids, dog and 7 ducks who might or might not need some level of attention. So yeah, 4 hours left in the phase was time to take a stand because I didn't know if I would have time to vote again.

[7]While Wigly had asked for votes on fish prior to that the only ones over there were Epi and nutella. While Wigly definitely seems to be civ, Epi was an all but confirmed hostile neutral, and nutella was a major scum read for everybody. I didn't really want to jump on that train. However, Wigly got some verbal commitments, so I moved my vote. You weren't exactly excited to move there yourself

[8]I promise this post had no motivation other than to pass on my own observations. Scum seem to be just as good at hunting scum if not better. To give some more observations, I actually think the Reapers have a bit of an advantage. Cerberus has one that cops as Alliance, and Alliance has at least 2 that cop as Cerberus. This isn't to say don't trust cops. You always trust the cop until you can't, but I was making an observation. I have said many times that the town is better off when it shares information. That's all I was doing.

So you wanted a role claim and information when your second best scum read gives shaky evidence, but when a strong town read has a large lists of grievances you just hope it goes away and withhold info, you know how you were saying Epi was scummy for withholding info.

I'm pretty sure I know what you you're going to claim, and admit it's a good claim, but the because you didn't do it before, in fact you completely dismissed me will trump the claim.

I don't think gfish's evidence was shaky (at least not by Realms' standards), and it wasn't just gfish's evidence. Epi had been pinging me since his nighttime conversation with Long Con. I didn't do this breakdown because as I said originally, I didn't think that anything I could say would be satisfactory to you. You still haven't said what would make you happy with me. I would have offered it if you had said. I would have tried for Wigly, but you were the one who was doubting me, so I thought it would go further with you, plus scum certainly wouldn't be expecting you to do something.

1:
A Roleblock is not a good lead when it's a blind roleblock on N1 and there's about 60 reasons why the missed kill is missed because the killer is blocked. A roleblock is a good final piece of evidence not a good piece of evidence when it's the only evidence you have. If this was day 4 and there was a miskill and Gfish claimed that he RB'd Epi it would be a completely reasonable line of questioning in my mind. The whole reason Gfish pinged scum in the first place was because he was pushing the theory so hard. Granted that's game theory and not indicative of guilt or innocence.

I just have a hard time viewing as Gfish's pressure as little more then random (or I don't like this guy pressure) with a little bit of oh and I have a lead tacked on for cover.

2. That's fine. What was more concerning is that it felt more aggregate of everyone else's suspicions rather then your own, especially with the lack of explination or previous interaction with other players.

4. Thin but plausible I guess, I remember it being kind of slow, but fine.

5. (shrug) It feels more like muddling the options and less like trying to be helpful.

6. The timing isn't to point anything else other then the timeline because I start jumping around in the next few posts. My biggest issue here is the fact that you chose Epi...and the finality of the statement, I don't know your schedule, so if you felt you couldn't make it back in time, I didn't know, to me that's the minor issue here.

Back to the fact that you chose Epi. Fish...still a scum read for you was still pushing the safe epi lynch. Wilgy, myself, and even you (in a post where he starts talking about math) about going for the safe option was not in the town's best interest. Yet, you still join Gfish (who still is at the bottom of your list as far as I know), Jack (another low level poster), and Long Con (early in the day he was high on your list, by the end of the day he was on the bottom of most peoples list) and Dys (who was at best placeholding because Diz was afk). Of those 5 people, Jack was voting for self preservation, LC was voting for something else entirely, and you and fish were the only ones voting because it was safe.

If you vote Jack here, Jack is likely lynched, and the case against you is almost non existent and I'm left with just my guts. If you took a stand on Jack being town, or even that you actually felt Epi was really reaper, that would have been one thing, but in the end you sided with a guy who you felt was the best lynch target, using his own logic and case to lynch someone else that was directly opposing a number of your high civ reads, and gridlock the vote, which is even more damning now that you felt you weren't going to be on to change your vote later. Regardless if you think Epi is better lynch then Jack, you stated before that you felt Jack was a good lynch target as well, you side with your reads, because why bother having them.

7. No, the traction part isn't the issue, the fact that you never mention Gfish as the best target is the problem. When asked specifically of which of the three suspects (Fish, Epi, and Jack) well before the end of the phase, you say Epi was. When Wilgy specifically asks people to start at least alternate pressure on Fish, you resist, non only do you resist you say that just because He's town doesn't mean he's right. NONE of that, would lead me to believe that you feel Fish is the best target for lynching. If you said Hey "WIlgy, you changed my mind, or hey Wilgy I'm trusting you here since I believe you are town" Yeah, cool, but instead you said "I thought fish was the best lynch all along, but I didn't tell anyone, and actually told everyone the opposite because I didn't think anyone would want to lynch him, even though a number of people continually brought him up as a lynch target"

When you responded to WIlgy about gfish, no one had even voted for Fish at that point, so the defense that there wasn't enough people on the train is moot, the question wasn't about whether or not you thought Fish would get lynched, you said you felt Wilgy was wrong. I had no reservations about lynching fish, and yeah, I thought Jack followed by FIsh was the best lynch and made that clear. Additionally you missed the post before that I would be willing to vote for Fish, but I didn't have a lot of faith in the town at that point to lynch either Jack or Fish. So yes, when I switched, I looked at the list, and saw You, Epi, and Jack all on the fish vote, I made note of it and said I was trusting Wilgy's play. I didn't say "Oh I thought all along that this was the best play"


8. I only added it because it was the first thing that bothered me about you. I knew there was a perfectly good explination for it, which is why I didn't bring it up at the time. Instead... I took note and paid more attention to what you did.

Fine you wanted to lynch epi because he was a jerk, I get that. I still think your biggest problem is the fact that you said you felt fish was a better lynch target then epi, when your actions and statements leading up to that point did not suggest that.

Make me happy? What? You completely dismissed the post. I'm not an unreasonable person, in fact I've called a number of people to task during this game, and with the majority of them they at least answered my line of thought directly, or generally satisfactorily enough to appease me. Maybe the length and depth of the ISO was too much and you thought I was in a "THERES NO ANSWER THAT CAN MAKE ME HAPPY WITH YOU." But guess what, a claim, and a couple of your points would have dissipated my concerns enough that I would have let you pass for the time being. I'm not a tunneller, I've tried to say what specifically bothers me about people and if they have a plausible enough explanation to what I confronted them about, I'm willing to grant some leeway and give them the chance to prove their towniness. If anyone thinks I have a reputation for being bullheaded and obstinate let me know, but I felt the total dismissal of my concerns was about the worst thing you could have done if you wanted to make me "happy". Plus how could you not know what I wanted to hear, I stated why you were pinging me and in all but a few exceptions you gave me a reasonable explanation.

As to choosing me over Wilgy, man I don't know what I feel about that. You didn't double check with the mods to see if your power would even work with me since I was stripped of all my abilities? I really don't know what to do here, because there is an easy solution to prove your innocence, but now that's less likely to happen since now it's pretty much out in the open, and there's not a whole lot of strategizing the town can do in the open. I don't want to blow up the spot, so it might be best if you actually claimed and everyone else can go from there with how they want to deal with you.

[Fredwood]

That took too long. Multitasking fail. I now have to go. Be back tomorrow.

I'm voting Adam for now. Looking into Nifty and LC upon my return with high priority.

Interesting, I'm still rather positive on Adam.

I will say, and have said before. That Adam changes his playstyle up a lot, but has been known to lurk til he has evidence. So while I think Gfish's meta assessment could be considered true, I don't know if it's fair. So perhaps that is a teammate soft cover, really didn't put that together.

I think Adam and I approach the game similarly, and a lot of his none gfish posts made a lot of sense or I agreed with reasoning and the line of logic and tact he took. I think this leads to my biggest problem with not picking him up when he's scum. I think with my inherent weakness of reading Adam, and the fact there is two mafia, I'm willing to temper my town read on Adam and go with consensus here if that's where we want to go, I just won't be a huge fan of it, and in a standard situation I wouldn't vote for him.

[nutella]

Looooooooong posts I'm a little overwhelmed and haven't absorbed all of Fred's case and Nifty's responses -- on the surface I'm still liking Fred's case and could see Nifty as Gfish's teammate, but he seemed to defend pretty thoroughly and I'll have to read the exchange more carefully.

I'm feeling more strongly about Adam especially given MP's summary of Adam's and Gfish's interactions. Really looks teammatey. I'll put a vote on Adam for now.

[Long Con]

I think Adam and I approach the game similarly, and a lot of his none gfish posts made a lot of sense or I agreed with reasoning and the line of logic and tact he took. I think this leads to my biggest problem with not picking him up when he's scum. I think with my inherent weakness of reading Adam, and the fact there is two mafia, I'm willing to temper my town read on Adam and go with consensus here if that's where we want to go, I just won't be a huge fan of it, and in a standard situation I wouldn't vote for him.

This paragraph felt super-wack when I first read it. I was like "Is this guy drunk?"

Then I said, "Wait - I'm a little drunk", and I went to read it again with you sounding like some intellectual. It held together a little better that way. I can't figure out what you meant to type for "and a lot of his none gfish posts made a lot of sense" because somethin' ain't right there. Help a brother out.

Not that I was considering accusing you of anything. You're, like, that Civ guy.

Seriously though, What the fuck is up with Wilgy fakeslipping to incriminate me? Why is no one even reacting in any way to that at all??!!!!

Am I being selfish, or overly sensitive? Is this, like, a common joke for everyone? I think that even the lamest fakeslip deserves a tiny bit of reaction in some way. I do not understand how there can be NOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHING said about it.

[Fredwood]

I think Adam and I approach the game similarly, and a lot of his none gfish posts made a lot of sense or I agreed with reasoning and the line of logic and tact he took. I think this leads to my biggest problem with not picking him up when he's scum. I think with my inherent weakness of reading Adam, and the fact there is two mafia, I'm willing to temper my town read on Adam and go with consensus here if that's where we want to go, I just won't be a huge fan of it, and in a standard situation I wouldn't vote for him.

This paragraph felt super-wack when I first read it. I was like "Is this guy drunk?"

Then I said, "Wait - I'm a little drunk", and I went to read it again with you sounding like some intellectual. It held together a little better that way. I can't figure out what you meant to type for "and a lot of his none gfish posts made a lot of sense" because somethin' ain't right there. Help a brother out.

Not that I was considering accusing you of anything. You're, like, that Civ guy.

Seriously though, What the fuck is up with Wilgy fakeslipping to incriminate me? Why is no one even reacting in any way to that at all??!!!!

Am I being selfish, or overly sensitive? Is this, like, a common joke for everyone? I think that even the lamest fakeslip deserves a tiny bit of reaction in some way. I do not understand how there can be NOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHING said about it.

Well I meant non-gfish posts, not none-gfish posts, so I just have stupid fingers and didn't proofread. MP was specifically dissecting Adam's interactions with Gfish, and while I hadn't really considered his interactions with Gfish because nothing really stood out to me, a lot of his interactions and reads on people who weren't gfish made sense to me and stood out at the time.

I'm not discounting the possibility of Cerberus Adam, and I am fully admitting a weakness to reading Adam in general.


To the last part...sorry dude, I think it was a standard mafia N1 joke post. Not sure what else I'm supposed to extrapolate from it.

[Long Con]

To the last part...sorry dude, I think it was a standard mafia N1 joke post. Not sure what else I'm supposed to extrapolate from it.

Ok... ok. Sorry, I've only seen that once before, and it was a Mafia member, and he intentionally got me lynched because people just believed it. Now, I see the exact same thing. My heart sunk when I saw it, so I was like "ha ha." I responded the best I could, and awaited the expected negative feedback.

Then none came. And I actually forgot about it, but I was looking through Tony Stark Prime's posts, and saw Wilgy's post quoted in it, and I was like "OH YEAH! That thing."

So, is that all it was? Some joke? Am I just sensitive because it was used as a lethal weapon against me the only other time I've seen it?

[S~V~S]

Hey all I have had one hell of a weekend. I will be around this am to catch up read. My family is doing Easter this weekend so all of the *not* on Long Island cousins and siblings have been around all weekend (I have one on my couch) so I should be back to normal tonight.

[sprityo]

What do you think on the Matter Sprit?

I see it as a WIFOM sitation where either Cerberus killed Dom to reflect bad on JoH so we lynch JoH who is still an enigma, or JoH is Cerberus and wants us to believe as such.

Or maybe a third option and I'm speaking in hypotheticals again.

So what do you gain from your question?

Mostly just wanted a second opinion about it, but it turns out you didn't really help me out at all so whatever.

i just took an outstanding 4 hour nap, so sorry about the late response

Sprit, opinion on what? You gave 3 views.

Hmm. I suppose what I meant to say was, your response didn't provide me with another point of view aside from the obvious ones.

[S~V~S]

Anyway, sorry to see Garrus go, do we learn anything from his death?

Does it seem odd that Cerberus hit Dom to anyone else but me?

The first thing that pops into my head is Jack. While just about everyone is suspicious of him, no one really got under his skin except Dom. I can see 2 scenarios.

1) Jack had his Cerberus pals hit Dom. This is not a particularly likely scenario, but it's possible.
2) Cerberus hit Dom hoping to push the above theory today hoping that the lynch of JoH sticks.

Either way Dom is dangerous to scum and I'm sure that's why they hit him.

I have to agree with this. I have done both when bad. Killed the person onto me and played it for the WIFOM, and killed someone elses accuser to use it to frame them. Has anyone really discussed Doms death at any length? Especially considering that Bob also suspected Jack.

I still think Jack is bad, so I am going to guess the former.

I noticed last time I was able to read significantly that both Jack and Silver were saying I was bad, lol. But it does not look like either of them is pushing to lynch me. Curious. I half expected to see that they were (unless I have not gotten to that yet, possible).

I am going to join you with a vote for Jack and reread the case on Adam. Can someone help a girl out with the Clifs notes on Adam?

[S~V~S]

Oh, forgot to bold etc,

*VOTING JACK O'H*

[S~V~S]

I just reread over Adams post, is it the thought that he and maybe Nifty are with gfish? I read through their posts, and that is the gist of what I get. They both seem to like me but that doesn't mean they are civs, and I tend to be susceptible to buddying.

Can someone spell out how that works for me? I might not have time to get the nuance of the whole thread since Friday AM in the time I have before I have to leave (about 3 hours, and I have to got ready to go, etc, soon) for Early Easter Extravaganza. I should be back in time to move a vote if I have to but I may not be 100% caught up by poll end time.

@Adam

Specifically, what posts that SVS has made do you like and why?

Is there a way to get post numbers or am I going to have to do this the hard way?

You could just list the link to all of my in game posts

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... 6&sr=posts

I am not dismissing anything; but it IS a leap, especially since the protector role is not dead. It is also possible that someone missed a PM or one of the role switchers was at work. This is a super complex role list, and while what you say is super possible, it is certainly not conclusive.

Overall, I like this post, but I'm not sure I follow everything you are saying. What do you mean by missed a PM. I don't know how it works in the Syndicate, but in the Realms if the faction has to kill they can't get around it by not sending in a PM.

Sorry if I was vague; I meant if they forgot to send it or misread the poll time and sent it late, etc. Although here, it depends on the host. When I host, I have allowed an intentional no-kill. But in general if the baddies don't send in a kill PM, they don't kill

[S~V~S]

Hey Jack, I was surprised to come in here and see that you had not voted for me

[Epignosis]

Hi.
I used to play mafia. I miss it!
Also, my husband was on the team that made the original Mass Effect.
Therefore, I am cool by proxy and should've signed up for this game.
Now back to your regularly scheduled slaughter...

Canuuuuuuuuuuck!!

This is the lady that craftily got the whole baddie team to out themselves in Roger Rabbit. Brilliant! And Canadian, so that's always a plus.

Damnedest thing I ever saw as a host.

[S~V~S]

Jacks last post:

Taking the liberty of paraphrasing

Jack: "Silver isn't hunting, ergo he's scum silver."

I openly admit that I have not led and I have not been hunting at all.

But you know what stops Town Silver from hunting Jack? Constantly being on the defensive from your BS accusations. You know that you know how to push my buttons like nobody's business and you know that by pushing on me, you will keep me tied up from participating with the town.

That right there is reason #1 why you're scum.

So the number one reason I'm scum is because you decided to Phone in the game?

Are we assuming he is silenced? I had forgetten we had a silencer, I don't specifically recall anyone being silenced before, but with a lot of people unfamiliar tome I might not have noticed. Realms players, do you folks ever silence yourselves as baddie?

In any case, since he is possibly silenced, I will pull my vote off of him. Moving to Silver for now, but may change if someone explains the Adam thing to me.

[Adam]

Interactive analysis of gfishfunk and Adam

*SNIP*

I was the first one to suggest that gfish was scum who had caught other scum with his roleblock gambit. I suggested it as a possibility when I thought Epi was town. After Epi made his dramatic reveal, I pointed out that gfish was likely scum who knew Epi was not town and was trying to lynch him.

Why would I bring that idea to the thread if gfish was my teammate?

And again, if I was Cerberus, why was I not pushing for the Epi lynch after he came out as Geth? Epignosis was pretty obviously the optimal Cerebrus lynch yesterday, and it would not have been hard at all to join that train at any point. And I guarantee you that gfish's teammates were on the Epi train after he revealed himself as Geth.

I also am fairly confident that the mods wouldn't create mafias that were all from one site in a crossover game. I would bet dollars to donuts that gfish had a Syndicateer for a teammate. The third teammate could be either HCR or Syndicate.

[S~V~S]

Looooooooong posts I'm a little overwhelmed and haven't absorbed all of Fred's case and Nifty's responses -- on the surface I'm still liking Fred's case and could see Nifty as Gfish's teammate, but he seemed to defend pretty thoroughly and I'll have to read the exchange more carefully.

I'm feeling more strongly about Adam especially given MP's summary of Adam's and Gfish's interactions. Really looks teammatey. I'll put a vote on Adam for now.

Can you put this into your own words for me; what specifically did you like about MPs case? I have not yet read it, I would rather hear some people give me thier opinion of it before I do read it. I like to hear peoples opinions of a case they are voting for, rather than, "I like case x" or "I agree with case x". What do you agree with and why?

[Adam]

Long Con
Dyslexicon
Immortal_Raven
JackofHearts
Captain Nifty
gfishfunk

I may or may not be missing other votes for Epignosis after his Geth reveal, I kind of hate how you can move your vote around the poll without there being any record of it.

But I guarantee you Cerberus is on that lynch.

I also am very confident at least one Syndicateer is Cerberus.

Who else voted for Epi that I missed? Nifty mentioned there were 5 votes when he threw down, I don't know if that includes all 5 from above or not.

[Immortal_Raven]

I think Adam and I approach the game similarly, and a lot of his none gfish posts made a lot of sense or I agreed with reasoning and the line of logic and tact he took. I think this leads to my biggest problem with not picking him up when he's scum. I think with my inherent weakness of reading Adam, and the fact there is two mafia, I'm willing to temper my town read on Adam and go with consensus here if that's where we want to go, I just won't be a huge fan of it, and in a standard situation I wouldn't vote for him.

This paragraph felt super-wack when I first read it. I was like "Is this guy drunk?"

Then I said, "Wait - I'm a little drunk", and I went to read it again with you sounding like some intellectual. It held together a little better that way. I can't figure out what you meant to type for "and a lot of his none gfish posts made a lot of sense" because somethin' ain't right there. Help a brother out.

Not that I was considering accusing you of anything. You're, like, that Civ guy.

Seriously though, What the fuck is up with Wilgy fakeslipping to incriminate me? Why is no one even reacting in any way to that at all??!!!!

Am I being selfish, or overly sensitive? Is this, like, a common joke for everyone? I think that even the lamest fakeslip deserves a tiny bit of reaction in some way. I do not understand how there can be NOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHING said about it.

Ok, what does fakeslip mean? If it means intentionally throwing out a weird accusation or intentionally misinterpreting someone else's posts, then I've accused him of it multiple times.

Since my attempt at multi-quoting is failing.

@Epi, fair point about reliance on roleclaims versus post analysis. I just know I play better with the former so that's the way I play. I'm trying to get better at the other but it's still mostly guesswork.

I agree that adam does change up his playstyle a lot. I'd accuse him of laying back, but then I'd get pot-kettled. The hang-up I have with MP's analysis is it's all lumped up and thus taken a bit out of context. While the posts can come across as teammate-esque, they're all deposited right there in a single post to give maximum case to the argument. Going back and looking at single instances though doesn't change the interaction much. The posts still come across as teammate-esque, especially as gfish got into a bit more hot water.

[Adam]

Spoiler: show

Pairs of players who are not mafia teammates:

Jack and Dom
Jack and SVS
Silver and SVS
Silver and Jack
Gfish and Epi
Long Con and Epi
Nifty and TSP
DrWilgy and gfish

Not as long of a list as I thought it would be.

I'm not sure what inspired this set of conclusions. Perhaps Adam can elaborate here.

I'm not sure what your question is. Do you think it's likely that any of the above are teammates together? I can go point by point if you want.

[S~V~S]

Spoiler: show

Pairs of players who are not mafia teammates:

Jack and Dom
Jack and SVS
Silver and SVS
Silver and Jack
Gfish and Epi
Long Con and Epi
Nifty and TSP
DrWilgy and gfish

Not as long of a list as I thought it would be.

I'm not sure what inspired this set of conclusions. Perhaps Adam can elaborate here.

I'm not sure what your question is. Do you think it's likely that any of the above are teammates together? I can go point by point if you want.

I think it's a cultural thing. Do you folk at HCR throw teammates under the bus early and often for distancing? That is fairly common here, so people who are aggressively sparring in thread could still be teammates. Like one game MP and I were teammates, and he was making a case on me from pretty much his first post. I personally am not a fan of that baddie playstyle, but it IS common here.

MP thinks you are suspicious for a possible cultural difference?

[S~V~S]

That's an open question to all HCR folk, by the way. Aggressive team distancing, is this a "thing" for you, or not?

[Long Con]

ImmortalRaven no, the fakeslip is Wilgy pretending to accidentally post something to the thread that was supposed to be posted in his baddie BTSC.

[Adam]

Spoiler: show

Pairs of players who are not mafia teammates:

Jack and Dom
Jack and SVS
Silver and SVS
Silver and Jack
Gfish and Epi
Long Con and Epi
Nifty and TSP
DrWilgy and gfish

Not as long of a list as I thought it would be.

I'm not sure what inspired this set of conclusions. Perhaps Adam can elaborate here.

I'm not sure what your question is. Do you think it's likely that any of the above are teammates together? I can go point by point if you want.

I think it's a cultural thing. Do you folk at HCR throw teammates under the bus early and often for distancing? That is fairly common here, so people who are aggressively sparring in thread could still be teammates. Like one game MP and I were teammates, and he was making a case on me from pretty much his first post. I personally am not a fan of that baddie playstyle, but it IS common here.

MP thinks you are suspicious for a possible cultural difference?

On HCR, not the level of distancing exhibited by those pairs of players. There's generally not the playstyle of actively trying to lynch your teammates. I would be impressed if any of the above were that committed.

[Fredwood]

Bussing is no where near as prevalent. It's not really needed because votes are easy enough to provide cover for because of the lack of plurality voting and the meta style about pressure trains.

Occasionally if two people who are known to bicker in general happen to be mafia together they'll bus. I've done some bussing/distancing, but never to the extremes that are being proposed here.