Street Fighter II Mafia [ENDGAME]

[malakim2099]

Also, malakim's misinterpretation of context, intentional baddie move or innocent Civ mistake?

Not certain.

Depends on how good malakim is at scumhunting. Or, moreso, how much he/she thinks like I do. I could see it either way.

Scum mindset is looking for mistakes. So any apparent mistake, like contradicting yourself, is a gold mine for suspicion. But some town people hunt like that as well.

Malakim is a he, just to clarify.

Admittedly when I first saw that post I just saw the initial 'clearing' part and didn't take the context into account.

Anyway, hope I'm doing this right here. First rainbow list!

malakim

Moderate Townies:
Speed
MP
LC

Slight Townies:
Dunya
Diiny
Sloonei

Slight Mafia:
JJJ*
Wilgy*
DF
nijuukyugou

Moderate Mafia:
Simon
Elohcin

Explanations!

* I like how Speed has been posting. He seems pretty consistent, theorizing (even if the theory is wrong, as I am not connected to Elohcin, but I can see how it looks that way) and providing insight.

* MovingPicture07 and Long Con I'm pretty solid on right now as well after re-reading that whole exchange they had. Definitely feels like townies chasing each other around D1 to me. Plus I'm pretty sure if MP was scum he'd take advantage of my laziness and run me up the flagpole.

* Sloonei has been putting pressure on me as the new guy, so I respect that.

* Dunya I'm still a bit peeved at the stealth vote after she decried stealth voting, but I think that was an honest mistake. Still, a bit weird to do that.

* Diiny I honestly haven't gotten a good feel for yet, so I just threw him in the leaning town for now.

* JJJ and Wilgy I'm throwing in slight mafia as they... just haven't said anything. I mean, JJJ did some posting D1 but then he said he needed to be replaced, so I'm just a little uncertain of that. I know Realms the mafia can submit actions for missing players, is that the case here?

* DF, you have a great avatar (go Bifur!) but it just bothers me that your first real move this game was tossing a vote onto Dom. Now, admittedly, Dom was acting really fishy going into D2, so it could be an innocent move... or it could be a mafia 'hey a townie is under pressure let's slip the iocaine powder in their drink' move too.

* Nin... er, njin... er, okay, I see why you say "Blooper" now. Anyway, I think she should be participating more, but the fact that Elohcin is the one bringing a lot of pressure onto her is giving me some pause. Putting her in the slightly fishy category.

* Simon, I'm still not a fan of. He hasn't been on that much, and I understand the RL considerations. Even so, it just strikes me that he could be coasting a little.

* Elohcin, I think, is my primary candidate for scumminess. I don't like her dedication to self-preservation. I mean, if I'm reading the rules correctly, specifically rule #4?

4) All players on the side of the winning faction will win.

I'm taking that to mean that the all the players of the winning faction, alive OR dead, will win. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that how it sounds to me. I mean, yes, it does suck that you aren't playing anymore, but when you say things like this:

Well...less thank 10 minutes left and I am ties with dom. Voting him. I'm not only trying to save myself but I think he may be bad.

(Emphasis mine.) Well, it just feels a bit odd to me, particularly when combined with her proactively saying that JoH was a frame job. It reminded me of a time when I had a vendetta against a player on HCRealms, and I was scum and he was town in that game. So I murdered him N1 and then protested loudly D2 that "OBVIOUSLY I wouldn't kill him N1 because then I'm the prime suspect! Geez, give me some credit!*"

Her self-preservation drive seems a bit too pronounced for a townie. Or maybe I'm just too much of a socialist. Anyway, that's where I stand right now. I'm sure that'll change.

* For the record, it worked.

[Elohcin]

* Simon, I'm still not a fan of. He hasn't been on that much, and I understand the RL considerations. Even so, it just strikes me that he could be coasting a little.

* Elohcin, I think, is my primary candidate for scumminess. I don't like her dedication to self-preservation. I mean, if I'm reading the rules correctly, specifically rule #4?

Simon only goes on the computer with supervision. With me playing thia game as well, his only supervisor is none other than our dear host epignosis. Simon will most likely only post once a day.

So was it better when I was just taking the fact that several people see me as a baddie even though I'm civ? I was ready to let the game go without a fight. But then I thought about my fellow civs and how I feel when I am watching others just give up without a fight. When I'm working my ass off to find baddies and I feel alone with no help. So...that is when I started to fight back. If I let y'all lynch me just because "I can still win with the civs if they win" then what good does that do for my team. If I let go without a fight, that's onw more civ down when it could have been a baddie that was lynched. Self preservation as you call it keeps me, a civ, in the game and givea ua a better chance at catching a baddie for the lynch.

[Elohcin]

Blooper, I'm sorry if you feel I'm tunneling you this game at all.

Nobody finds this suspicious though???

Shit, I nearly forgot I was playing this. I need a nap and gotta get several things done before I can catch up. Sorry for practically disappearing for a day or so - work was stupid busy yesterday and today.

The time here is 4:41 pm. Bloop needs to take a nap and do several things before catching up.

Her next post IS the very next post and its less than 40 minutes later at 5:17 pm...

I found a thing. @nijuukyugou

I'm gonna go write for a bit. I'm looking at people who don't stand out, toeing that line of participating and contributing. Too many Days 1 with voting the weirdo.

Linki - I am Blooper! :waves:

In this post you mention some vague unnamed people at whom you are looking, but you never mention any of these people by name. Can you point to anybody who is or was playing with this particular low-key style?

But then later, this:

Okay, cool.

I don't feel great about lurker voting on Day 1, but it's what I feel most comfortable with at this juncture. I'm still open to being persuaded though.

Whom would you vote if you couldn't vote for Bass or another lurker with me?

Probably either JJJ or speed for the votes on Sloonei for the Dhalsim thing. I'm wary of voting that way for the "look at me, I'm standing out on Day 1!" reasons I stated earlier. I want more info, and I like that playing is happening and want to keep it that way for today.

This seems to be the exact opposite of your previously stated line of thought. Whereas you'd previously stated that you're wary of people who don't stand out on Day 1, here you seem to be saying that you are wary of players for standing out too much on Day 1. Which is it? Or are you just wary of anything with a pulse around here?

also that sentence, but I see where the ambiguity lies in my wording - I was referring to my desire not to vote for players who stand out, twice. I didn't like their votes on you because they voted precisely the reason/way I DIDN'T want to vote. And I am aware JJJ didn't vote bc of the Dahlsim matter - once again, I was referring to voting for a stand out, but it looks as though I lumped them both together for the same voting reason.

I hope that makes sense, but I can explain it differently if my thoughts need clearing up.

How did she tqke a nap, get several things done, and catch up and post all in less than 40 minutes withoutbthe help of a btsc team?

Tell me I'm not crazy.

[Elohcin]

Sorry for the mess-up there. That last part are my words, not bllopers. Gotta go work on dinner

[speedchuck]

Eloh. You are not crazy. But please explain how this makes Blooper scummy? Why would scum be any more likely to have this particular inconsistency than town?

It's easy to look for inconsistencies in posts and point at them and say "THAT'S SCUM BEHAVIOR" but it isn't always. Blooper clearly wasn't looking to buy herself some time, or they wouldn't have come back to generate content. Blooper wasn't lying about reads or making excuses for scummy behavior.

Far as I can tell, Blooper either took a powernap, had some thoughts about mafia after waking, and soon posted them. Or maybe after laying in bed for a few minutes Blooper felt more refreshed.

I'm not saying that it isn't weird. I am trying to figure out why scum would claim to take a nap and then post in forty minutes.

. . .

And it took this long for me to realize you were implying the existence of a BTSC team. I'll have to reread the post and see if the opinions looked like Blooper's. Lol. Posting this anyway.

[Epignosis]

This is a reminder that the deadline for Night actions is in less than half an hour.

[nijuukyugou]

Eloh. You are not crazy. But please explain how this makes Blooper scummy? Why would scum be any more likely to have this particular inconsistency than town?

It's easy to look for inconsistencies in posts and point at them and say "THAT'S SCUM BEHAVIOR" but it isn't always. Blooper clearly wasn't looking to buy herself some time, or they wouldn't have come back to generate content. Blooper wasn't lying about reads or making excuses for scummy behavior.

Far as I can tell, Blooper either took a powernap, had some thoughts about mafia after waking, and soon posted them. Or maybe after laying in bed for a few minutes Blooper felt more refreshed.

I'm not saying that it isn't weird. I am trying to figure out why scum would claim to take a nap and then post in forty minutes.

. . .

And it took this long for me to realize you were implying the existence of a BTSC team. I'll have to reread the post and see if the opinions looked like Blooper's. Lol. Posting this anyway.

^^ This, precisely. Power nap, thoughts together, skimming, reading. I didn't read a lot after the nap. I literally read Sloonei's post. But I like the deduction, Eloh (and your tunneling isn't making me mad, FYI! It's just misguided, I promise )

[Epignosis]

YOU LOSE!

dunya has been killed by Shadaloo. She was:

[Epignosis]

ROUND 3...
FIGHT!

[Elohcin]

I already stated that I believe at least one pwrson from the other site (new-to-the syndicate) is probably mafia. Seeing as a new-to-us member has now been killed so early, it only reinforces this theory. Syndicaters havw nwvee been very comfortable with killing of new people this quickly.

I know diiny is new. Is malak also from the other mafia site and playing here for the first time?

[Tangrowth]

Ugh, RIP dunya, was really enjoying playing with you for the first time.

Guess I'm not silenced because I'm doing such a bang-up job catching scum. I will only be around briefly in the morning; I'll have to check in via phone closer to deadline. It'll be a tough cycle for me.

I already stated that I believe at least one pwrson from the other site (new-to-the syndicate) is probably mafia. Seeing as a new-to-us member has now been killed so early, it only reinforces this theory. Syndicaters havw nwvee been very comfortable with killing of new people this quickly.

I know diiny is new. Is malak also from the other mafia site and playing here for the first time?

Why would you think this exactly?

[Long Con]

I already stated that I believe at least one pwrson from the other site (new-to-the syndicate) is probably mafia. Seeing as a new-to-us member has now been killed so early, it only reinforces this theory. Syndicaters havw nwvee been very comfortable with killing of new people this quickly.

I know diiny is new. Is malak also from the other mafia site and playing here for the first time?

This meta line of thinking rings true to me.

[Tangrowth]

Putting on a vote on Blooper to start because I need to know her reads.

[Tangrowth]

Also, LC, surely you have some other reads by this point. If you don't, try doing some investigative work. It's Day 3; you should have something else to give.

Everyone should be posting reads/rainbows if they haven't. We need more discussion.

Okay, now

[Dom]

you guys suck tbh
my first day back at school and you lynch me before I even get home from it.

lame.

civs deserve an L

[Dom]

rezz me

[Diiny]

Boss is out and I can't finish this work for him until he's back. I'm going to use this time to post some STUFF.

[Diiny]

Ugh, RIP dunya, was really enjoying playing with you for the first time.

Guess I'm not silenced because I'm doing such a bang-up job catching scum. I will only be around briefly in the morning; I'll have to check in via phone closer to deadline. It'll be a tough cycle for me.

Only the guilty feel the need to reassure the thread of their innocence without being prompted. When I have time to sift through your massive post history I'm going to point out all the times you've been horribly wavy and have set yourself up to quickly swap wagons, all the times you've acted strangely defensively and other stuff that irks me. I'll retract this statement if it turns out you're not as scummy as my unconfirmed mental image of you, but for now, here is that statement: you're probably the scummiest player imo

[dunya]

aw man. good luck townies! i'm rooting for YOU

[Diiny]

I already stated that I believe at least one pwrson from the other site (new-to-the syndicate) is probably mafia. Seeing as a new-to-us member has now been killed so early, it only reinforces this theory. Syndicaters havw nwvee been very comfortable with killing of new people this quickly.

I know diiny is new. Is malak also from the other mafia site and playing here for the first time?

this theory strikes me as ridiculous.

"the most unanimously town-read player gets nightkilled by the mafia and flips town, and she had clear reads against some people that can lead to wifomy goodness on the event of her death and town reveal. There's no WAY mafia would kill her!"

I don't see a townie bothering to make a post this baseless. this is faux-scumhunting, and it's an attempt to throw shade at people for nothing.

btw I've never played with dunya either lol.

[Diiny]

you almost had the balls to bus elo, MP. Almost. I don't see why you came off of elo, who you had a decently scummy vibe from, on the basis of her main defence being 'I'm busy'.

[Diiny]

* Elohcin, I think, is my primary candidate for scumminess. I don't like her dedication to self-preservation. I mean, if I'm reading the rules correctly, specifically rule #4?

As much as I don't like elo atm (hopefully more on that soon) this doesn't make sense. And elo actually responded to this well iirc.

Malakim, townies *know* they're town. It's a 100% chance. They die, that's a townie out of the game and the mafia win condition lurches closer. Now, even if you *really think* the guy on an alternate wagon to yours, who'd survive if you don't vote for him, is town, that's still a less than 100% chance of keeping a townie in the game. It always makes sense to preserve yourself.

I'm worried that your shunning of self-preservationist tactics is a symptom of you being scum. You're not in a mindset of "i KNOW i'm town, in elo's situation I would save myself too."

[Diiny]

I'm going to have to ask for meta on elo.

She's doing a ton of her reading based on very transient things. nap length. personality fluctuations. she's spending a lot of time on emotional posts about how she's busy and shouldn't be playing two mafia games and how she 'knew it was over' at one point, to the point where it seems like she's trying to use it to guilt/persuade us that she's town instead of merely explaining her lack of content.

We all get busy, and it sucks, and it's completely excusable. But imo someone interested in scumhunting excuses themselves, catches up and proves they're town by scumhunting, not by delving further into their own situation and playing defensively. Again, though, some people play mafia differently, and I'll consider letting off if this is simply the elo, town OR scum, that you know, regulars.

[Diiny]

blargadm;laddisaifmmsfsaf

FUCK

I give up.

If you're not scum after making this post I will personally write you a full letter of apology.

[Diiny]

DFaraday jumping on dom out of the blue (literally the first he mentions his name is the post where he votes for him afaict) citing 'what mp said' as his evidence, and doing so as soon as the elo argument spices up: doesn't look great.

[Diiny]

MP does it not worry you that there is a clear rivalry of mutual scum reads between elo and blooper, elo was saved from the chop out of the blue by dfaraday, and now you're voting for blooper?

[Diiny]

LC has gone completely under my radar but it's lunch now. I'll iso him soon if I get time after work. being a proud british lion (post brexit all computers in the UK filter the word e u r o p e a n to that) I'll miss the vote as it's at like 3am for me, but rest assured it'll probably be for MP, Elo or DFaraday.

I wanna hear who we've got hype for.

[Diiny]

oh god I forgot about sloonei. I need to iso him again too.

this is a call to all players: I want your THOUGHTS. I want your READS. I want your GUT READS and your HEAD READS and your READING FESTIVAL TICKETS.

[Diiny]

blooper's ph is barren, like a desert. dusty winds cut me and when they die down i feel the sun's baking rays. i fall to my knees, thinking I'm seeing fleshed out reads, scumhunting, provocation and content, but no, it was just a mirage.

voting for lurkers is a nice way to stay under cover. she had to be actually PROMPTED to talk about non-lurkers by MP. bad vibes.

I'm thinking elo and blooper can't both be scum, as they don't strike me as the kind of people that would feign mutual scum reads. Hmf,

[Diiny]

Night kill analysis is not my forte. I've been scum twice in like three years. But I am intrigued by your suggestion that you were framed, Eloh. Do you feel that you were definitely framed, or are you merely suggesting it as a possibility because somebody else brought it up?

Its what I immediately thought when reading the results last night. But I didn't say anything because I figured people would shoot down the idea and just claim I was bad.

Why was it your first thought?

This is a really good shout, and gives me hope for the sloon. I like his elo vote, but something still irks me about it. Even when placing his vote, he still asks for thoughts, as if requiring validation/seeing how popular/unpopular this vote was.

Were you the first to vote for elo, sloon?

[DrWilgy]

Im here. Someone catch me up.

[Tangrowth]

you almost had the balls to bus elo, MP. Almost. I don't see why you came off of elo, who you had a decently scummy vibe from, on the basis of her main defence being 'I'm busy'.

I await your clarifications re: my supposed scummy behavior, but my presence will be limited so I'll respond however I can.

Regarding this post, Elo is a difficult player to read because she never makes sense to me (no offense intended, Elo, we just come to conclusions very differently), so I grilled her to see if I believed her. I wasn't sure for a while but in the end her spark seemed genuine. Maybe I made the wrong call but I think I didn't.

[Tangrowth]

Also I didn't "bus" Elo because I'm not scum, but nice try.

I would like you to respond to my ISO when I get the chance, Diiny.

[Tangrowth]

When YOU get the chance. Sorry phone postingnwilk inevitably result in typos.

[dunya]

Im here. Someone catch me up.

they killed me

[Tangrowth]

I'm going to have to ask for meta on elo.

She's doing a ton of her reading based on very transient things. nap length. personality fluctuations. she's spending a lot of time on emotional posts about how she's busy and shouldn't be playing two mafia games and how she 'knew it was over' at one point, to the point where it seems like she's trying to use it to guilt/persuade us that she's town instead of merely explaining her lack of content.

We all get busy, and it sucks, and it's completely excusable. But imo someone interested in scumhunting excuses themselves, catches up and proves they're town by scumhunting, not by delving further into their own situation and playing defensively. Again, though, some people play mafia differently, and I'll consider letting off if this is simply the elo, town OR scum, that you know, regulars.

That's pretty much Elo. Either alignment. I can't ever make sense of it; I've probably mislynched her more than anyone, even Dom, so I just try to tell whether she's contradicting herself or whether what she's saying sounds disingenuous.

[Tangrowth]

blargadm;laddisaifmmsfsaf

FUCK

I give up.

If you're not scum after making this post I will personally write you a full letter of apology.

You better start writing it.

[Tangrowth]

MP does it not worry you that there is a clear rivalry of mutual scum reads between elo and blooper, elo was saved from the chop out of the blue by dfaraday, and now you're voting for blooper?

No, I hadn't thought of that actually, that's a good point. My vote is really a pressure vote anyway, I'm not sure what I'll do with it quite yet.

I appreciate your efforts to ramp up the discussion, so thanks.

[Tangrowth]

oh god I forgot about sloonei. I need to iso him again too.

this is a call to all players: I want your THOUGHTS. I want your READS. I want your GUT READS and your HEAD READS and your READING FESTIVAL TICKETS.

This is great and all but YOU also have concerns to answer for. I posted an ISO on you that no one has said anything about -- and it's unclear where your reads have been progressing for most of the game despite your aggressive rhetoric. If there's any 'supatown' mafia player this game I'm afraid it's you for that reason, but I'd like to think that's just tinfoil. So when you get a chance if you can better explain how you've been developing reads through your lines of questioning as I observed in my ISO that'd be great.

[Tangrowth]

I'm thinking elo and blooper can't both be scum, as they don't strike me as the kind of people that would feign mutual scum reads. Hmf,

I would tentatively agree with this, but also caution that I haven't really seen any behavior from either of them that I would characterize as too aggressive for bussing/distancing.

[Tangrowth]

Im here. Someone catch me up.

Hello good sir!

I'm terrible at this stuff even when I'm not on phone with very limited time but I'll try.

D1 was close but we lynched Bass for being a no show
D2 was also close but we lynched Dom for, well I had a huge argument with him that you can find in my ISO

N1 JOH was killed and he was going after Elo the most
N2 dunya was killed I presume because she was pretty much seen as town

I suggest you just read backwards maybe or from D2 onward in the interest of time? Or better yet just interact with whoever is inthe thread for reads, but as much as I would for that to be me unfortunately I have to go ATM. But I'm sure you can work out some reads and catch up -- Whatever works best for you.

[Tangrowth]

Alright, have to go, my activity will be really spotty, but I'll definitely try to phonepost whenever I can.

[speedchuck]

Players Dunya suspected: LC, Blooper, and malakim
So if there's silencing motive in there, it's with these.

I really hate that I wasn't around for dayend yesterday. And that I didn't vote when I thought I did. Hrg. I currently want to place a lynch between Eloh or malakim, and to a lesser extent, MP and Blooper.

Why those four? Because we can lynch and get some freaking information. Dom and Bass weren't linked to anybody in any way. Their reads/actions were basically isolated. Our lynches have sucked this game. I'm going to do some ISO stuff today. Nothing big to put in thread, probably, unless I find a case to make. I just want some better reads.

[speedchuck]

want to place a lynch between Eloh or malakim, and to a lesser extent, MP and Blooper.

On a side note, I am 99% certain that there is at least one scumperson in these four. In a game this big, that isn't saying much, but my eagle-eye view says that with the direction this game is going, and the focus/back and forth reads between these four don't really allow for a town/town/town/town thing.

[speedchuck]

Malakim:
Early on suspects one of LC or MP. Nervous about Elohcin.
Chats with Dunya about suspicions, says: "I like what you've said so far. Which probably means you're mafia and suckering me in." My gut says feels fake. Don't like that.
The post after that is also eeeehhhh. He's leaning toward suspecting MP and Eloh, but then throws shade on his own read by joking about JoH being scum. Subtle, but fishy.
Bases his reads on MP and Eloh from the D1 lurker lynch.
Backs off a bit when Eloh claims that MP's meta makes these reads moot.
Continues to back off completely. Places suspish on Simon instead, of all people, for... role fishing.
Impression list: It's pretty wishy-washy. Throws shade on Simon and tentatively on LC. Gives up on reading Eloh. A few town-ish reads as well, on MP, Diiny, JoH, and Sloon.
Bleh. Wordy clarifications.
Long post about the MP/Dom/LC thing, ends up placing suspicion on Simon, LC, and Dom.
Goes back and forth on Eloh some more, votes for her. Really doubt their alignment.
Apparently plays Pathfinder. Fun stuff.
Backs off of LC at the slightest provocation.
Rainbow list: Simon and Eloh at the bottom. DF and Blooper just above. LC is townread now. Uh.

In short malakim has been floundering just like everyone else this game. Could be scum. Almost certainly not scum with Eloh or MP.
I made this summary with as critical an eye as I could muster, and I'm not really convinced either way. Bleh.

[mention]malakim2099[/mention]:
Can you make a strong (or just detailed) case on someone you suspect?
If Eloh is scum, who do you think is scum with her? Other than maybe Simon?
What class do you play in Pathfinder?

[Sloonei]

Night kill analysis is not my forte. I've been scum twice in like three years. But I am intrigued by your suggestion that you were framed, Eloh. Do you feel that you were definitely framed, or are you merely suggesting it as a possibility because somebody else brought it up?

Its what I immediately thought when reading the results last night. But I didn't say anything because I figured people would shoot down the idea and just claim I was bad.

Why was it your first thought?

This is a really good shout, and gives me hope for the sloon. I like his elo vote, but something still irks me about it. Even when placing his vote, he still asks for thoughts, as if requiring validation/seeing how popular/unpopular this vote was.

Were you the first to vote for elo, sloon?

I always ask for thoughts. I'm not saying things simply for my own sake, I'm saying them so that we all can talk about what's going on and what we're thinking.

I believe I was the first to vote for Eloh yesterday, but there had been plenty of talk around her prior to my vote.

[Sloonei]

I was more exhausted than anticipated yesterday. I ended up falling asleep for a couple hours, then woke up to social obligations before falling back to sleep. I meant to contribute things here at some point last night. I apologize.

[Sloonei]

want to place a lynch between Eloh or malakim, and to a lesser extent, MP and Blooper.

On a side note, I am 99% certain that there is at least one scumperson in these four. In a game this big, that isn't saying much, but my eagle-eye view says that with the direction this game is going, and the focus/back and forth reads between these four don't really allow for a town/town/town/town thing.

Could you elaborate on what's driving these four apart in your view? Unless you're already working on a detailed response to this question, then you can ignore it.

[Tangrowth]

Random thought:

If either Elo or Blooper is bad, GTH I would say Blooper.

[Tangrowth]

Speedchuck I'm also a bit confused where you're comingf from because some of your proposed lynches off the top of my head seem inconsistent wth your previously expressed reads.