[ENDGAME] Seinfeld Mafia

[Julinook]

The Elaine/Peterman connection strikes me as rather blatant ("willingish"), but it wouldn't shock me.

[Celeste]

I also keep forgetting Tim Whatley exists. That's not ideal.

Why do you think this is this the case? I feel like I've voiced my thoughts consistently?

I'll be voting Peterman. I don't feel bad about it, but there are a handful I can say that about. Let's see where this goes.

Stein, if time allows, I'll review those you asked about.

[Spooky Ghost]

Catching up. Sorry peeps, RL has kicked me in the ass majorly.

What are these reasons, Jerry?

At the time of those reads:

Elaine - role claim
George Costanza - decent, effortful infusion into the thread soon before those reads
Steinbrenner - consistently relevant contributions under the role play, handles questions gracefully
Jackie - strong start to the game, tonally agreeable
Soup Nazi - Indignant and irritable, particularly in my direction, in a way that seemed civilian
Leo - A few incidents where I felt he exhibited genuine hunting effort

I want to take a peek myself to see if I can find the nipple in somebody's soul.

I'll start with George.

I get slightly negative vibes from George:

I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.

I'm good and STELLA! is dead.

This last post though:

Jackie has been quiet.

This is such a...I don't know...random thing to say about someone he felt good about, but said he felt bad about Estelle, who had said even less than Jackie Chiles.

what is this even.

You know, I did think it was rather farfetched that all four main characters of the show (George, Seinfeld, Elaine and Kramer) would RANDOMLY be picked as town. Kramer was town, I'm town, pretty sure I have good feelings about Jerry...so Elaine, as someone who roleclaimed and wasn't night killed, what's your deal?

Sure Estelle is dead. Yes, I felt peculiar about her. No, I didn't vote for her at any time. Suspicion arises. Everyone is suspicious at some point.

Jackie was a lot more vocal, and when he was, I had good feelings about him. He disappeared, he missed voting. I questioned it. What's up with that? How is it random? I liked the way Jackie was talking, I didn't like the direction Estelle was headed. I'm allowed to make judgement calls based on how I see them.

[Julinook]

I also keep forgetting Tim Whatley exists. That's not ideal.

Why do you think this is this the case? I feel like I've voiced my thoughts consistently?

I'll be voting Peterman. I don't feel bad about it, but there are a handful I can say that about. Let's see where this goes.

Stein, if time allows, I'll review those you asked about.

*opens Tim Whatley's post history*

*CTRL+F for "peterman"*

1 mention in entire history, and it's in this post with this vote. Naw.

Voting Tim Whatley.

[Chuck]

You know, I did think it was rather farfetched that all four main characters of the show (George, Seinfeld, Elaine and Kramer) would RANDOMLY be picked as town. Kramer was town, I'm town, pretty sure I have good feelings about Jerry...so Elaine, as someone who roleclaimed and wasn't night killed, what's your deal?

You must be hungry for some falafel, little man, yet this is just fallacious.

[Julinook]

Soup Nazi, what is your present take on Peterman?

[Chuck]

Soup Nazi, what is your present take on Peterman?

Has something changed since... you know, I had a take on him?

[Spooky Ghost]

What's the deal with George Costanza?

I'll tell you one thing for sure-- the two who voted for me as a cheap throwaway vote are definitely getting my vote returned to them at some point in this game. You think I'd intentionally kill my own fiancée? I AM NOT A MONSTER, I AM A COSTANZA, LORD OF THE IDIOTS!

He was happy to dismiss the early votes he received as "throw-away votes". I don't think that was a fair depiction.

yes it was. You had nothing to go on except the narrator saying George's fiancee, Susan, was killed and assuming based on the series that it was me. That's a cheap throw-away vote to me. Do you honestly think the narrator would intentionally rake the odds against me (as he did in night 2 as well)? Yeah, I've been playing this game for some years and never has the narrator given a direct clue to who is scum (and why would my name be mentioned/related twice in a row?)

After a little prodding and questioning, he spat out some reads. I do think it's decent that despite his questions about me, he still went for the "good" read. It evidences a thoughtful mindset for generating these reads, beyond just "what would be consistent with my posts?".

I don't understand this line of thinking. Prodding and questioning a user doesn't mean I suspect them automatically. I'm questioning things-everything-, gathering info, seeing reactions of the person I am questioning and how others react to me as well, determining reads. If I question you it doesn't mean I don't trust you, and it doesn't mean I don't trust you--unless I specifically say I do or don't.

[Chuck]

So... continuing my background check on customers and their votes:

Little Man

Felt good about Leo Night 1.
You know what, I for once agree with Comedian Hack that this post is kind of a salad of thoughts: agrees with Leo, Seinfeld downplaying something is haram, BUT it must have been ballsy, he did a deciding vote whereas mafia might have stayed away from, he claimed so he must be who he claimed, his lady friend also safe for doing the same... It could be words he'd want others to hear, more than a strong original input.
Doesn't like Leo's vote and tactic to keep ideas to himself. Aaand voted him.

So a 180 on Uncle Leo, huh. I don't technically disagree with Leo's vote, either, in fact I catalogued him as awful, but to quote this walking fat ball, his posts here also "reek" of a bit of putting content to look good and clinging on to someone's messy vote to pin a vote himself. Iffiness overall.

[Chuck]

Yankeeman

Good poke at Jungleman casting suspicion on no shows without having showed much himself.
Inquiry on Jungleman's Junglewoman.
Jungleman and Poodie in his sights, could go either way.
Joins Seinfeld (what a surprise) back on Jungleman, claiming Poodie vote was partially in self-defense.
Suspects all Poodie voters, independent of their Poodie vote.
Keeps asking on Jungleman.
Still dissatisfied with Jungleman not being receptive.

His Day 3 posts already span 2 ISO pages, kill me and fry my head in vinegar.

I suppose this can look adequate. Nose itches a bit at his hard pivot from Poodie to Jungleman, trying to raise awareness and perhaps get others to look elsewhere - much like Seinfeld practiced his routine. It could go either way. I feel that's the whole thing, still, with this oligarch. Is he useful or is he acting useful?

Tinfoil candidate, but for today, I'd prefer to cook a mobster raw.

[Spooky Ghost]

I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.

<snip>
I'll have to look into Peterman a little more now that you shed light on his inconsistencies.
<...>

He was off your initial list - why? Have you looked into Peterman further as you say in this second quoted post? If so, what is your conclusion?

He was off my initial list along with a few others who had left no impression on me at the time of my post. I am reading each person's posts individually now and will have a better read on Peterman and others in a few hours.

[Spooky Ghost]

What bothers me most about Elaine is that she roleclaimed in self-defense. Not strategically, not to protect another player, but to save her own skin. Her second claim tells me that the first was bogus! A civilian has plenty of cause to lie about their role in this game, that's for sure. But that first claim of hers does not sit well with Big Stein!

Can someone explain Elaine's role claims to me? She claimed she was a vig then she claims she's a tracker. She says Jerry shot Kramer.
How are we ignoring all these things? (Still going through Page 9/10, so don't shoot me if my question was already answered but I'm truly baffled and find her game play if town quite frankly dangerous).

[Spooky Ghost]

The second claim was bogus. I didn't track Jerry. What if nothing I say is true? Don't even talk about grace, all right? I don't have grace, I don't want grace, I don't even say grace, okay?

I don't like this sort of impulsive craziness. I have a hard time pinpointing it down as scum--I hope--, but I wish we wouldn't make fake role claims and fake accusations based on those fake role claims like they were real. At this point, Elaine looks like a vanilla townie who's just throwing shit around. I've seen fake role claims before, sure, but usually harder to prove untrue and I don't know how I feel about the shit she's flinging. Will have to have a closer look into posts after her claims, etc. Will do that after I go over the remaining "new" posts as I'd like to have a vote down asap.

[Chuck]

Lawyer Man

A lawyer who has not shown up for work. Disgraceful.

But, whatever, let's pick this back up, since he still have less posts than I have cousins.

Picking it up from

Dislikes baseless prodding, yet prods little man for lore. Hrmpf.
Decent pick on Costanza's baseless vote.
Vouches for Mrs. Costanza. Just like Steinbrenner!! What did I tell you?!
Dislikes Yankees mogul picking on nasty woman.
Decent rebuttal.

I disliked his early stuff, but don't have much on his recent bit. Worth a squint.

Now, that vouch for Mrs. Costanza does stick out, but heck, there are a few voices overall, included me, who didn't suspect her. Could a point in his favor that the mafia took this as a sign that Mrs. Costanza is a safe removal. (Buuuut *tinfoil activation*...)

Squirts rainbows on players' suspicion - trust ratio. Not a fan of this approach's reliability and I sense he went too hard on Benes' bitchin', when Costanza Sr. and Yankeeman had only a few more trusted marks. Agree with him on tinfoiling Costanza Jr's contribution.

Plot thickens, as someone points yet another vouching for a deceased citizen (Kramer). Could Lawman here be this much of a safe parking mobster?

Insists on Costanza Jr. looking worst for him.

I suspect this is a material for him to arrive today and plant a vote on Costanza Jr. and nothing else - if he'll arrive to vote at all! There's nothing else to draw upon other that the players he had good vibes on keep dying. I don't think I'll entertain the conspiracy around this too much today, though.

[Chuck]

The second claim was bogus. I didn't track Jerry. What if nothing I say is true? Don't even talk about grace, all right? I don't have grace, I don't want grace, I don't even say grace, okay?

I don't like this sort of impulsive craziness. I have a hard time pinpointing it down as scum--I hope--, but I wish we wouldn't make fake role claims and fake accusations based on those fake role claims like they were real.

Seinfeld did the same, claiming tracker and claiming Yankeeman disposed of your mother - probably to get back her season tickets and sell them at a better price than back in 1970, when she got them.

[Spooky Ghost]

Now that I've gained a little bit of perspective back, I realize the Soup Nazi's been knocked down a few rungs on the suspect list, especially by Jerry and Uncle Leo.

Of those remaining, I hate to say it, but my gut says my son. It's just the kind of sick, twisted thing he'd do after putting her on his baddie list, especially after providing no reason. She was a suspect he couldn't defend if he got asked, so he knocked her off to avoid being asked about her. And he was even the last one seen at her bedside!

For the first part, I'd like to know why Jerry feels good about the Soup Nazi now.

For the second part, that's untrue. I explained I found her post regarding Jerry not being killed N1 because he's outspoken makes him suspicious actually made her seem suspicious. I didn't need to defend it.......since I explained it. Someone's not paying much attention to his son.

As for going with narrative to accuse me... *yawn*
How many games have you been in with the narrator telling you who's scum...? Yeah.

[Spooky Ghost]

The second claim was bogus. I didn't track Jerry. What if nothing I say is true? Don't even talk about grace, all right? I don't have grace, I don't want grace, I don't even say grace, okay?

I don't like this sort of impulsive craziness. I have a hard time pinpointing it down as scum--I hope--, but I wish we wouldn't make fake role claims and fake accusations based on those fake role claims like they were real.

Seinfeld did the same, claiming tracker and claiming Yankeeman disposed of your mother - probably to get back her season tickets and sell them at a better price than back in 1970, when she got them.

Yes, I'm still catching up on those posts. Nearly addressing that.

[Spooky Ghost]

What bothers me most about Elaine is that she roleclaimed in self-defense. Not strategically, not to protect another player, but to save her own skin. Her second claim tells me that the first was bogus! A civilian has plenty of cause to lie about their role in this game, that's for sure. But that first claim of hers does not sit well with Big Stein!

What if the second claim was bogus? I Bear Lee recall you saying anything about the first claim at the time.

HA HA HA HA HA HA

I had my qualms with it, young lady! It was an act of defense! I saw no strategic value in it whatsoever and that does not sit well with Big Stein. Why did the mafia not kill the exposed vigilante last night, Benes?

Was this ever answered by Elaine?

[Chuck]

And finally

Whoever this new guy is

Thinks Seinfeld is a troublemaker, Elaine hasn't contributed with anything and what's up with voters who stopped bothering me. Great questionnaire, much reasoning.
Tailing Seinfeld on a post by Mrs. Costanza.
What does this mean.
Don't understand any of his lines of inquiry here.
???
Retroactive prodding.
One intention to vote Benes, perhaps rooted (no pun intended) in his prodding of her, and one intention to vote Costanza Jr., not rooted in anything except asking him what's up.
Intention to vote Jungleman out of freaking nowhere.

Awfully fixated on votes stemming from two days ago already, currently with an unreasoned vote, no clarity on what he's looking at. Very poor job so far, if he's a citizen.

[Spooky Ghost]

You're a funny man, Seinfeld. Big Stein appreciates humor in dark times. But I will not stand for this kind of funny business, you hear me! Is this some sort of test? Trying to make Big Stein sweat, are we? You're gonna have to do better than that! I'll let it stand for now though. But come this time tomorrow I expect to see results on the table! Tell me what you want from and I'll have the entire Yankee organization at my back.

I'm a 2-shot tracker. Bania/Whatley did nothing on night 1. You killed Estelle on Night 2.

Is this a fake claim too?
Jesus.

[November]

What bothers me most about Elaine is that she roleclaimed in self-defense. Not strategically, not to protect another player, but to save her own skin. Her second claim tells me that the first was bogus! A civilian has plenty of cause to lie about their role in this game, that's for sure. But that first claim of hers does not sit well with Big Stein!

What if the second claim was bogus? I Bear Lee recall you saying anything about the first claim at the time.

HA HA HA HA HA HA

I had my qualms with it, young lady! It was an act of defense! I saw no strategic value in it whatsoever and that does not sit well with Big Stein. Why did the mafia not kill the exposed vigilante last night, Benes?

Was this ever answered by Elaine?

Most of my questions have not been answered this game.

[Spooky Ghost]

Jerry Seinfeld
The Soup Nazi
Jackie Chiles
Uncle Leo
George Costanza
Tim Whatley
Frank Costanza
Elaine Benes
J. Peterman

I'd like to know what Jackie did to earn him a high spot on your list.

I'm not jealous or anything. Why would I be jealous?

[Chuck]

My current vote inclinations are Leo, Jungleman and Little Man or Doctor Who as potential thirds. I'm also both considering Awful Woman and not, given her claims shenanigans. Leo's and Shrill Woman's votes are basically in So Bad I'm Cringing camp - with a percent they couldn't also be So Bad They're Probably Civs. Doctor Who trails with a unsharp game and the other two both have things that bugged me. The others are likely safe from my vote today, bearing no sudden moustache twitch. Tinfoil Yankeemogul.

[Chuck]

You're a funny man, Seinfeld. Big Stein appreciates humor in dark times. But I will not stand for this kind of funny business, you hear me! Is this some sort of test? Trying to make Big Stein sweat, are we? You're gonna have to do better than that! I'll let it stand for now though. But come this time tomorrow I expect to see results on the table! Tell me what you want from and I'll have the entire Yankee organization at my back.

I'm a 2-shot tracker. Bania/Whatley did nothing on night 1. You killed Estelle on Night 2.

Is this a fake claim too?
Jesus.

I just TOLD you that!

[Chuck]

What bothers me most about Elaine is that she roleclaimed in self-defense. Not strategically, not to protect another player, but to save her own skin. Her second claim tells me that the first was bogus! A civilian has plenty of cause to lie about their role in this game, that's for sure. But that first claim of hers does not sit well with Big Stein!

What if the second claim was bogus? I Bear Lee recall you saying anything about the first claim at the time.

HA HA HA HA HA HA

I had my qualms with it, young lady! It was an act of defense! I saw no strategic value in it whatsoever and that does not sit well with Big Stein. Why did the mafia not kill the exposed vigilante last night, Benes?

Was this ever answered by Elaine?

Most of my questions have not been answered this game.

Does an answer matter on this issue?

[November]

What bothers me most about Elaine is that she roleclaimed in self-defense. Not strategically, not to protect another player, but to save her own skin. Her second claim tells me that the first was bogus! A civilian has plenty of cause to lie about their role in this game, that's for sure. But that first claim of hers does not sit well with Big Stein!

What if the second claim was bogus? I Bear Lee recall you saying anything about the first claim at the time.

HA HA HA HA HA HA

I had my qualms with it, young lady! It was an act of defense! I saw no strategic value in it whatsoever and that does not sit well with Big Stein. Why did the mafia not kill the exposed vigilante last night, Benes?

Was this ever answered by Elaine?

Most of my questions have not been answered this game.

Does an answer matter on this issue?

Some acknowledgment by Elaine would have been nice.

[Chuck]

Of what? That she has not died?

[Spooky Ghost]

I wouldn't call George trusted at this point (from now on, "George" refers to Costanza). One thing I didn't talk about in my ISO:

I agree with what you're saying to some extent, especially earlier, like right after the lynch. The fact that Jerry downplayed it too, and made it seem like he didn't have any other options (which he did have), also made me feel weary. However, it's those balls of steel on a day 1 that make me place Jerry on my safe list now. He wouldn't have drawn that much attention to himself, he made a decision that killed Newman, he stuck by it. It was a deciding vote to lynch a townie on Day 1, not something mafia would have done to blend in. There's like a 2% chance he's not who he says he is. For now, he's on my safe list.

Similarly, Elaine is on my safe list for her frustration post and revealing/not revealing her PR.

The contrast between green and orange is a bit gross. "I want to tell you why Seinfeld is shady and you shouldn't trust him, but he's basically confirmed civilian because he posted a lot on Day 1".

Are you intentionally misreading my post or what?

I explained my initial knee jerk reaction in the first part and why/how I changed my mind in the follow up part. I was explaining my thought process and being open; yes, I related to their concerns about you but here's why I changed my mind--in an effort to get people to show me why I'm wrong or possibly see the same thing I did and confirm my theory.

[Spooky Ghost]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa! What's this Elaine vote? One minute you're telling me she's got a good claim and sits outside your lynch territory, the next you're saying she should go? Explain yourself again, Seinfeld.

She's clearly full of shit.

And you're not?

[November]

Of what? That she has not died?

That her role claim should have made her a target but did not. Any sort of follow up on her vigilante claim, really. Because from where I stand it still looks like the only reason she made that claim was to shake Jerry's suspicion of her, and I hate that.

[Spooky Ghost]

You're a funny man, Seinfeld. Big Stein appreciates humor in dark times. But I will not stand for this kind of funny business, you hear me! Is this some sort of test? Trying to make Big Stein sweat, are we? You're gonna have to do better than that! I'll let it stand for now though. But come this time tomorrow I expect to see results on the table! Tell me what you want from and I'll have the entire Yankee organization at my back.

I'm a 2-shot tracker. Bania/Whatley did nothing on night 1. You killed Estelle on Night 2.

Is this a fake claim too?
Jesus.

I just TOLD you that!

I don't give two shits what you told me.
I'm addressing Jerry and seeing WHY he felt the need to do that.

[Spooky Ghost]

No problem, Mr Seinfeld. I used the time I had, and I had to stop. Just got home from the office, and I'm going to get back to it.

George Costanza looks the worst from my analysis so far.

Care to elaborate, Jackie? Perhaps I can ease your concerns if I had more content to go by and address your issues.

[Spooky Ghost]

ooc: my posts are coming as I am reading the thread and addressing new revelations as they come to me. Bear with me, folks.

[Spooky Ghost]

Jerry, why do you think Elaine Costanza died instead of you or me?

A few possibilities, more of one of which may be true.

1) The mafia didn't buy your vigilante claim (because their role arrangements don't include one in the matrix).

2) The mafia didn't prioritize you as a kill because they could role block you instead, or they thought you were in line to kill a civilian.

3) They suspected Estelle might be a power role herself, playing it safe and laying low, given her relative quiet.

4) Despite her relatively low post count, Estelle provided a decent set of reads -- perhaps she was on to something.

5) They targeted both Kramer and Estelle as low-posters because they'd be harder to trace to a source.

If I had to bet on just one, I'd take #3.

You gave Elaine a lot of answers, none of which she gave herself despite being promoted to. Hmmmmmm.

[November]

Jerry, why do you think Elaine Costanza died instead of you or me?

A few possibilities, more of one of which may be true.

1) The mafia didn't buy your vigilante claim (because their role arrangements don't include one in the matrix).

2) The mafia didn't prioritize you as a kill because they could role block you instead, or they thought you were in line to kill a civilian.

3) They suspected Estelle might be a power role herself, playing it safe and laying low, given her relative quiet.

4) Despite her relatively low post count, Estelle provided a decent set of reads -- perhaps she was on to something.

5) They targeted both Kramer and Estelle as low-posters because they'd be harder to trace to a source.

If I had to bet on just one, I'd take #3.

You gave Elaine a lot of answers, none of which she gave herself despite being promoted to. Hmmmmmm.

What are you getting at, Costanza?

[Spooky Ghost]

Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?

Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.

Day 1 votes generally aren't really substantial or based on actual specific clues or content. I didn't feel good about the Newman bandwagon. I didn't vote for Newman.

I'm someone who goes by gut instincts a lot, and I felt Uncle Leo was wishy washy in his stances, as long as he didn't draw attention to himself or garner too much opposition and preferred following the bunch; insincere; not as vocal or skeptical as people should be on Day 2.

My opinion on him hasn't changed yet.

[Spooky Ghost]

Jerry, why do you think Elaine Costanza died instead of you or me?

A few possibilities, more of one of which may be true.

1) The mafia didn't buy your vigilante claim (because their role arrangements don't include one in the matrix).

2) The mafia didn't prioritize you as a kill because they could role block you instead, or they thought you were in line to kill a civilian.

3) They suspected Estelle might be a power role herself, playing it safe and laying low, given her relative quiet.

4) Despite her relatively low post count, Estelle provided a decent set of reads -- perhaps she was on to something.

5) They targeted both Kramer and Estelle as low-posters because they'd be harder to trace to a source.

If I had to bet on just one, I'd take #3.

You gave Elaine a lot of answers, none of which she gave herself despite being promoted to. Hmmmmmm.

What are you getting at, Costanza?

I'm not sure myself yet. Just thinking out loud here but no one can be as sure as Jerry is of Elaine without actual evidence don't you think? Especially with everything she's done and said. I think he has some kind of knowledge of her innocence. I'm fine with that. I'll go with that. No way they're both scum. No way is Jerry going to place Elaine so highly on his list without evidence. That's all I'm saying.

[Spooky Ghost]

Of what? That she has not died?

That her role claim should have made her a target but did not. Any sort of follow up on her vigilante claim, really. Because from where I stand it still looks like the only reason she made that claim was to shake Jerry's suspicion of her, and I hate that.

she's been lurking behind role play and her character an awful lot, but I'm going to pin her down as vanilla town with nothing to lose and everything to gain by having fun and shaking things up a little.

[November]

Jerry, why do you think Elaine Costanza died instead of you or me?

A few possibilities, more of one of which may be true.

1) The mafia didn't buy your vigilante claim (because their role arrangements don't include one in the matrix).

2) The mafia didn't prioritize you as a kill because they could role block you instead, or they thought you were in line to kill a civilian.

3) They suspected Estelle might be a power role herself, playing it safe and laying low, given her relative quiet.

4) Despite her relatively low post count, Estelle provided a decent set of reads -- perhaps she was on to something.

5) They targeted both Kramer and Estelle as low-posters because they'd be harder to trace to a source.

If I had to bet on just one, I'd take #3.

You gave Elaine a lot of answers, none of which she gave herself despite being promoted to. Hmmmmmm.

What are you getting at, Costanza?

I'm not sure myself yet. Just thinking out loud here but no one can be as sure as Jerry is of Elaine without actual evidence don't you think? Especially with everything she's done and said. I think he has some kind of knowledge of her innocence. I'm fine with that. I'll go with that. No way they're both scum. No way is Jerry going to place Elaine so highly on his list without evidence. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not sure I follow. It seems to me like Jerry is doing nothing more than speculating about Elaine's alignment. His theories here are as much about Estelle as they are Elaine.

[November]

Of what? That she has not died?

That her role claim should have made her a target but did not. Any sort of follow up on her vigilante claim, really. Because from where I stand it still looks like the only reason she made that claim was to shake Jerry's suspicion of her, and I hate that.

she's been lurking behind role play and her character an awful lot, but I'm going to pin her down as vanilla town with nothing to lose and everything to gain by having fun and shaking things up a little.

I feel like she has been uncooperative in my interrogations, with this particular instance as a prime example. Her lack of analysis on Peterman also stands out. She's been active but not forthcoming.

[Julinook]

I'm not lynching George today.

[Julinook]

I have no evidence of anything on Elaine. She's a tinfoil suspect. I don't think her role claiming behavior makes her bad, indeed it might even make her good -- it's cover and it incites reactions and conversation. That's a good thing. It's the same reason I pretended to track Steinbrenner into a kill. The issues I have with Elaine are more general given her disposition and candor -- she seems carefree to the point of caricature, and that makes me worry a bit about WIFOM gambits.

[Julinook]

By the way, my actual Night 2 track was much less interesting -- Estelle targeted nobody.

[Julinook]

I'm a bit queezy about a Peterman lynch just given the ease with which it has been sustained, but I am not completely turned off by it a la Puddy. With Puddy the development of the wagon was just horrendous; it really made things transparent. This time I am just experiencing standard civilian uncertainty, and I'm not going to campaign against a wagon for that reason. I also note the bevy of 1-vote "wagons" surrounding him in the poll. People are definitely trying to incite alternatives.

[Julinook]

Frank Costanza's post history has become quite frustrating. The tunnel on son George is hard to understand given that he hasn't explained it much apart from George's periods of absence. Moreover, it's all he's bloody done lately. I really hope that's not civilian work. Come on y'all, the game can easily still be won.

[November]

A brief Jackie Chiles ISO because I really can't put my finger on why I read him as town

Uncle Leo? That's a mobster's name if I've ever heard one! Big Tony, there's another. But I don't see a Big Tony here, and I don't trust this Uncle Leo. What's he hiding? Big Stein's getting nervous!

I find your assertion egregious, unscrupulous, and atrocious! A clear case of prejudicial name-alignment-assignment.

Easy entry post. Big Stein opened the door to this sort of criticism on Day 1. It's not suspicion for somebody to pounce on it, but it's not a great thing either. The development of this stance will be more important.

I'm not sorry for the double post.

You double-posting? Who told you to double post? I didn't tell you to double post. Why'd you double post? If you're gonna double-post, I wanna see double information.

I'm gonna have to get me a bowl of that mulligatawny. Mmmm-MMM! Love that Indian flavour.

Empty. Blowing hot air. Big Stein doesn't appreciate that!

It was my understanding that George Costanza poisoned his fiancée with envelope glue. Despicable, degenerate, deplorable! He'll get my vote.

Speculative, rumor-mongering Day 1 vote against my star employee Costanza. Big Stein stands by his employees. The Yankees are a family business, after all! Not a fan of this vote, not based on anything we can see in the game thread.

It was my understanding that George Costanza poisoned his fiancée with envelope glue. Despicable, degenerate, deplorable! He'll get my vote.

Oh come on! Be sensible.

and since when did we ever trust an attorney

That slander is barbed, blatant, belligerent! Why are you calling into question my sensibility? Have I given cause to be called unsensible? Are you a sensibility expert?

Does anyone know what the previous MP sockpuppet game was? Futurama? Who were the Mafia in that game?

I don't see the purpose behind this question, and the first line looks like more attempt to slander my man Costanza. That's right, slander! How's that taste of your own medicine, Jackie!?

ASSMAN! I'LL GIVE HIM ASSMAN!

*votes Kramer*

Now where did this vote come from? You criticize George, Elaine, Estelle... but then vote Kramer with no real explanation! Not to mention that this is a follower vote on someone I'm feeling pretty good about. Highly questionable behavior.

On another not, rereading Estelle's three posts, I find it satisfying to read them in her roleplaying voice. It works despite her admission that she doesn't know how.

Change vote: Frank

What about your own vote, Jackie? This reeks of hypocrisy! His own initial vote was for George for no discernible reason. He then casts a new vote against Frank, for casting a vote for no discernible reason. Not that the criticism of Frank is not legitimate here. That Kramer vote was bad.

...and they're spectacular tier:
Uncle Leo
Jackie Chiles

This feels like the good side of role play tier:
George Steinbrenner
The Soup Nazi

The yada-yada tier:
J Peterman
George Costanza
Kramer
Kenny Bania

What's up with _____ tier:
Estelle Costanza
Frank Costanza
Elaine Benes
David Puddy

Why thank you, Mr Seinfeld! Though I agree on Frank Costanza, I don't think the courts would side with you over Estelle - unless you mean to just prod her. In my experience, someone bad will often try to get suspicion in there, on the record. Estelle strikes me as a civilian who is disoriented, perplexed, and bewildered.

In fact, here's some 'best of' Estelle Costanza scenes for our friend:

I like that he's willing to state disagreement with Jerry unprompted here, but I would like to hear more on why Jackie had these thoughts about Estelle at the time. There is no prior mention of her in his posts.

Well, sure it's unique, because anybody paying attention knows that what your uncle said wasn't true, including you, since you could have tied it up. If I said I liked men but was a lesbian, that would be providing a unique perspective too, but would it be right? Would it be correct, Jerry?

This Benes woman is giving me fits, and not just because she's a Baltimore fan! Seems like she's picking a fight with Seinfeld just to pick a fight. Her argument has my head spinning. Big Stein's getting dizzy. Like riding on one of those carousels, trying to keep up. I never cared for those rides. Rollercoasters, those are okay. Very exhilarating. But a carousel just goes in circles, over and over and over. You never know when they're going to end. I can't figure out where the end of this argument is or where it's beginning either. She says Seinfeld is suspicious for appreciating input from his uncle, then she says he's bad because he voted for Newman. It's not making sense to me, I don't buy her conviction. But Big Stein doesn't see why a mobster would pick a fight like this either. Big Stein is confused, but he'll keep kicking!

I have to say that I find Mr Seinfeld's points about Ms Benes to far more convincing than this attack. This kind of latching-on to minutiae, accusation, and then hands-in-the-air confusion is the kind of base fearmongering that I expect to see from the Mafia. 5 out of 5 for roleplay though!

My top picks for lynch today: Steinbrenner, Frank Costanza, and... let's go with George as a distant third, because I haven't had a good feeling about that guy yet.

I've been unsure how to feel about this post since he made it. I could see it coming from a mafia mouth. The accusation reads more as a broad generalization about what Joe Mafia might do rather than an interpretation of my intentions individually. I also do not love the seemingly arbitrary third suspect.

After the big List post categorizing our collective sentiments, Jackie's post history leaves a lot to be desired. I'd like to see where he was going with that collection of reads he made before, and any further developments to go along with it.

Jackie would be in the middle section of an updated rainbow list.

[November]

Peterman and Elaine remain the players I am most comfortable lynching, in that order.

[Paul Stevens]

Frank Costanza's post history has become quite frustrating. The tunnel on son George is hard to understand given that he hasn't explained it much apart from George's periods of absence. Moreover, it's all he's bloody done lately. I really hope that's not civilian work. Come on y'all, the game can easily still be won.

I gave you a hypothesis, Jerry!

It's just the kind of sick, twisted thing he'd do after putting her on his baddie list, especially after providing no reason. She was a suspect he couldn't defend if he got asked, so he knocked her off to avoid being asked about her. And he was even the last one seen at her bedside!

And as far as I can tell, George still hasn't given a good reason for that baddie listing. Too buys moving on to the next victim, probably.

You and the Soup Nazi seem to have gotten in quite the wrestling match yourselves. One of you've got to be civ, because there's no way two mafia would spend all that energy putting on a show. Given the effort you're both showing, you may even both be civ.

I think Big Stein's analysis of the lawyer has a lot of merit. And not just because he's black. I mean, not because he's black at all! But one thing you missed, Steinbrenner: he did mention Estelle before challenging Jerry.

On another not, rereading Estelle's three posts, I find it satisfying to read them in her roleplaying voice. It works despite her admission that she doesn't know how.

Not sure what to make of that, other than that he's mentioning her to mention her.

[November]

The four people voting for Peterman excluding myself are the four players I feel best about in this game right now.

[Nicol Bolas]