Mountain Mafia [END]

[Sloonei]

And now, the game is really afoothill!

*crickets*

I might be persuaded to go with Epi today, but as of right now I'd not be willing to put a definitive vote on him.

How's the fence treating you?

*vote sloons*

We need an eye rolling emoji that I can post here.

That guy looks too merry

[Sloonei]

And now, the game is really afoothill!

*crickets*

I might be persuaded to go with Epi today, but as of right now I'd not be willing to put a definitive vote on him.

How's the fence treating you?

*vote sloons*

We need an eye rolling emoji that I can post here.

Posts that appear to say something while not actually saying anything? To borrow the words of somebody else:

That's a good enough reason for Day 1 because I will accept any reason on Day 1.

Do you intend to keep your vote on me?

[colonialbob]

And now, the game is really afoothill!

*crickets*

I might be persuaded to go with Epi today, but as of right now I'd not be willing to put a definitive vote on him.

How's the fence treating you?

*vote sloons*

We need an eye rolling emoji that I can post here.

Posts that appear to say something while not actually saying anything? To borrow the words of somebody else:

That's a good enough reason for Day 1 because I will accept any reason on Day 1.

Do you intend to keep your vote on me?

What an odd question.

I will answer it by saying I subscribe to the maxim "Vote early, vote often."

[Sloonei]

And now, the game is really afoothill!

*crickets*

I might be persuaded to go with Epi today, but as of right now I'd not be willing to put a definitive vote on him.

How's the fence treating you?

*vote sloons*

We need an eye rolling emoji that I can post here.

Posts that appear to say something while not actually saying anything? To borrow the words of somebody else:

That's a good enough reason for Day 1 because I will accept any reason on Day 1.

Do you intend to keep your vote on me?

What an odd question.

I will answer it by saying I subscribe to the maxim "Vote early, vote often."

Then I retract my eyeroll. But my stance on Epi was meant to slow the roll against him. We had a lot of people coming out against him and promising votes for something that I thought was worth noticing, but hardly worth an earnest suspicion at this stage in the game. I didn't want to see all the focus fall on him today. I'm not fence-sitting. I'm just being as cautious as I always am.

[Sloonei]

Why waa that an odd question for me to ask, cbob?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Put a vote on Spacedaisy. Do we believe her guilt to be coming from a place of empathy for game hosts everywhere, or from her role card?

I think the Spacedaisy guilt line of questioning is weak. I hate "I'm not that bad at being bad" defenses but if you can rephrase to "most players are not that bad at being bad," it is an acceptable counterattack.

Didn't come across that way, though. Still don't think Daisy gets guilty over being scum.

I don't. I kind of enjoy being scum. And I'm trying to overtake Epi still for top FEB, though lately I have suffered a setback because I haven't been rolling scum. And this game won't offer me the opportunity either. I'm not scum. I'm a big mountain.

Also I'm sorry you hate that defense, but it was really less of a defense and more annoyance that Sloonei could possibly think I'd be that bad at playing scum.

I would never do ab&c as scum and therefore the best time to do ab&c would be as scum to fool people.

Also, people get lazy.

Ergo "I am not that bad at being bad" or "I wouldn't say that if I was bad" arguement a tend to be super unconvincing to me.

I hate unconvincing arguements. That's where the hate is coming from.

[Jackofhearts2005]

But what I should have said was "Okay."

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Put a vote on Spacedaisy. Do we believe her guilt to be coming from a place of empathy for game hosts everywhere, or from her role card?

I'm not really buying the idea that she feels guilty about rolling Mafia, making it affect her very first post in the game.

WHo the hell feels guilty about being mafia anyway?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Voting Sloonei, I agree on the point about fence sitting.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I've just noticed something, after reading Bob's "vote early/often" expression.

In a standard NF game I change my vote 3-4 times every phase, give or take. I vote often and boldly.

But here I feel like I have some restraint voting, perhaps because of the first games I played in this forum that didn't allow changing votes.

I've been having better results as a civ there than here, so I'll try to keep that in mind. I should vote more often.

[colonialbob]

I would never do ab&c as scum and therefore the best time to do ab&c would be as scum to fool people.

Also, people get lazy.

Ergo "I am not that bad at being bad" or "I wouldn't say that if I was bad" arguement a tend to be super unconvincing to me.

I hate unconvincing arguements. That's where the hate is coming from.

Hey, remember that time (in the second or third to last Hybridity, I think?) That I OMAC'd myself by asking a question only mafia would ask? Then tried to weasel out by saying I was setting a trap?

Not my finest moment.

[Sloonei]

I don't like this Epi lynch. Feels like there's a bunch of scum surrounding him like vultures waiting to see if they can lynch him or not. Lots of people "kind of" wanting to vote for him.

And now, the game is really afoothill!

*crickets*

I might be persuaded to go with Epi today, but as of right now I'd not be willing to put a definitive vote on him.

How's the fence treating you?

*vote sloons*

We need an eye rolling emoji that I can post here.

Posts that appear to say something while not actually saying anything? To borrow the words of somebody else:

That's a good enough reason for Day 1 because I will accept any reason on Day 1.

Do you intend to keep your vote on me?

What an odd question.

I will answer it by saying I subscribe to the maxim "Vote early, vote often."

Then I retract my eyeroll. But my stance on Epi was meant to slow the roll against him. We had a lot of people coming out against him and promising votes for something that I thought was worth noticing, but hardly worth an earnest suspicion at this stage in the game. I didn't want to see all the focus fall on him today. I'm not fence-sitting. I'm just being as cautious as I always am.

Voting Sloonei, I agree on the point about fence sitting.

[colonialbob]

I've just noticed something, after reading Bob's "vote early/often" expression.

In a standard NF game I change my vote 3-4 times every phase, give or take. I vote often and boldly.

But here I feel like I have some restraint voting, perhaps because of the first games I played in this forum that didn't allow changing votes.

I've been having better results as a civ there than here, so I'll try to keep that in mind. I should vote more often.

Yeah, here the meta seems to be that votes are srs bsns. Which (IMO) helps the mafia, as they can wait to throw down their vote until the lynch subjects have been relatively decided. In a meta where votes flow freely, it becomes much more dangerous to do a distancing early vote on a teammate, because if they end up accruing votes it looks really suspicious to back out without a good reason.

(Voting patterns are my personal favorite form of analysis so that does inform my view on the matter)

[Sloonei]

Vote changes are still relatively new here. They were a controversial issue for a little while.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'm with Sloonei (and LC, wow, what a surprise, it's el clásico again and everything is predictable and nothing hurts)

Are you more inclined toward my hesitance or LC's confidence?

The former, I guess. Mostly I agree with the sentiments you've expressed about why Quin's reasoning is fine for day 1, and probably enough to join Quin and LC in an epi vote if I don't get anything better for a day 1 reason

*votes Nutella*

[sig]

I am mesk, I am good! do you trust me?

that's how i feel about trust meta!

I like this guy.

Also wow y'all are jumping the barrel and getting right into it aren't you?

[Long Con]

If Long Con is a civilian, then is most likely means he is genuine in his suspicion of me.

If his suspicion is genuine, then his accusation that I am being deliberate and calculating in my dealings thus far should be one that he can logically explain.

Already done, but you want more words?

In other words, if I know what I'm doing (i.e., being deliberate in "setting up a long game"), and Long Con is calling me out on that, then he should be able to explain how my actions in the thread so far will benefit my team and me down the road. What is the long game and how am I expecting it to play out?

Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

If he can't answer that, then his suspicion isn't genuine, and he's trying to get a quick and easy Day 1 lynch out of the way.

Let's get this quick and easy Day 1 lynch out of the way, folks!

[Epignosis]

I'm with Sloonei (and LC, wow, what a surprise, it's el clásico again and everything is predictable and nothing hurts)

Are you more inclined toward my hesitance or LC's confidence?

The former, I guess. Mostly I agree with the sentiments you've expressed about why Quin's reasoning is fine for day 1, and probably enough to join Quin and LC in an epi vote if I don't get anything better for a day 1 reason

*votes Nutella*

My reaction also was to vote nutella. My perspective after giving it some thought, however, is to question if nutella would be so careless and flippant if she were mafia, knowing that being careless and flippant would likely draw votes. I need to hear more.

[sig]

Put a vote on Spacedaisy. Do we believe her guilt to be coming from a place of empathy for game hosts everywhere, or from her role card?

I'm not really buying the idea that she feels guilty about rolling Mafia, making it affect her very first post in the game.

I don't understand this where did this come from? She didn't seem guilty in fact she was bragging about being a mafia member.

Hey Jack quick question, about how does accusing someone of being one of the Good Boyz poke them?

I take it you aren't married, having never poked someone in a nice way.

Also, there is no trust exercise. I was just saying hi.

My mind went straight to the gutter with this one.

I also don't get why anyone thinks Epi is mafia, he looks like he always does. So I won't be voting for him.

[Epignosis]

Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

"Buddying" two civilians on Day 1 is not going to stop my lynch if that is what the majority wishes (not that I agree I have "buddied" anybody).

Sloonei is not going to be intimidated by me to the extent that he won't vote for me if he feels he should (not that I agree I have intimidated Sloonei).

You are, as usual, starting with the conclusion that Epignosis is bad and making everything I do fit that conclusion. Of course, you have no response to this:

You are implying that "setting up a long game" is something I, as mafia, would do on Day 1. That is mistaken. The fact is I don't bother with long term planning Day 1 when I am bad. It's antithetical to success in most cases, because to be good at being bad, one must be flexible and able to dance. And I am a fine dancer.

Can anyone who has ever been bad with me point to a time when I set up a long term plan Day 1?

If not, why would I start now?

[Epignosis]

Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

Wait a minute.

How does Long Con know Mesk, coolonialbob, and Sloonei are civilians?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I would never do ab&c as scum and therefore the best time to do ab&c would be as scum to fool people.

Also, people get lazy.

Ergo "I am not that bad at being bad" or "I wouldn't say that if I was bad" arguement a tend to be super unconvincing to me.

I hate unconvincing arguements. That's where the hate is coming from.

Hey, remember that time (in the second or third to last Hybridity, I think?) That I OMAC'd myself by asking a question only mafia would ask? Then tried to weasel out by saying I was setting a trap?

Not my finest moment.

No?

Last time I lynched you in Hybridity, it was POE and the time before that I was being dumb.

[Long Con]

Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

"Buddying" two civilians on Day 1 is not going to stop my lynch if that is what the majority wishes (not that I agree I have "buddied" anybody).

What? You don't see the relationship between the number of Civs that believe you are Civ, and having the majority lynch?

Sloonei is not going to be intimidated by me to the extent that he won't vote for me if he feels he should (not that I agree I have intimidated Sloonei).

Maybe, maybe not.

You are, as usual, starting with the conclusion that Epignosis is bad and making everything I do fit that conclusion.

Not really, I started with observation of your behaviour, then came to the conclusion that you're bad.

Of course, you have no response to this:

You are implying that "setting up a long game" is something I, as mafia, would do on Day 1. That is mistaken. The fact is I don't bother with long term planning Day 1 when I am bad. It's antithetical to success in most cases, because to be good at being bad, one must be flexible and able to dance. And I am a fine dancer.

"I am not that bad at being bad" or "I wouldn't say that if I was bad" argument tend to be super unconvincing to me.

Can anyone who has ever been bad with me point to a time when I set up a long term plan Day 1?

If not, why would I start now?

Classic. "If you can't do a ton of research and find that I acted the exact same way previously, then your accusation can't be right." Do people still buy that forced-meta crap?

[Long Con]

Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

Wait a minute.

How does Long Con know Mesk, coolonialbob, and Sloonei are civilians?

Indeed.

[Sloonei]

I don't think Epi was trying to intimidate me, but I do think it's possible that he was trying to combat the idea of a negative image around him by attacking me. I think it's more likely that he was just trying to push my buttons to see how I'd respond.

I don't know why he started the game by naming two players he's not going to vote for today.

[Epignosis]

Long Con

Your accusation against me only works if all three of Mesk, colonialbob, and Sloonei are civilians. There is no way to know this if you are a civilian. The irony of you accusing me of "buddying" two of three is noted, because by labeling all three as civilians, one could argue that you are "buddying" three people.

[Jackofhearts2005]

If Long Con is a civilian, then is most likely means he is genuine in his suspicion of me.

If his suspicion is genuine, then his accusation that I am being deliberate and calculating in my dealings thus far should be one that he can logically explain.

Already done, but you want more words?

In other words, if I know what I'm doing (i.e., being deliberate in "setting up a long game"), and Long Con is calling me out on that, then he should be able to explain how my actions in the thread so far will benefit my team and me down the road. What is the long game and how am I expecting it to play out?

Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

If he can't answer that, then his suspicion isn't genuine, and he's trying to get a quick and easy Day 1 lynch out of the way.

Let's get this quick and easy Day 1 lynch out of the way, folks!

Point LC.

Epi is perhaps the best dancer on the site. There is nothing "quick and easy" about trying to mislynch him on Day 1. This feels like trying to scare away votes, not a legit attempt to scumhunt, which is exactly what Epi is already accused of doing with Sloonei.

Combined with suspicious nonlynchcandidate declarations, I think this is worthy of a vote.

PS: What is my tell?

[Epignosis]

Classic. "If you can't do a ton of research and find that I acted the exact same way previously, then your accusation can't be right." Do people still buy that forced-meta crap?

If you can't back up your accusations with, you know, facts, you should reconsider your accusations (if they are indeed genuine). I wasn't asking anybody to do any research. You can't do any such research unless you have access to old BTSC. I asked if anybody could point to a time I made some elaborate endgame-in-mind scheme on Day 1. Memory is all anybody needs for that.

But I can go ahead and say the answer to that is no, because it isn't how I operate. You can keep claiming I'm operating in a way I never have before if it's convenient for you.

[Sloonei]

Changed my vote to kyle. [mention]Kylemii[/mention], what do you think about Epi and all the people who have expressed thoughts on him so far?

[Sloonei]

[mention]Mesk514[/mention] what do you think of your first taste of the Syndicate so far? Does anyone stand out in any way?

[Sloonei]

Classic. "If you can't do a ton of research and find that I acted the exact same way previously, then your accusation can't be right." Do people still buy that forced-meta crap?

If you can't back up your accusations with, you know, facts, you should reconsider your accusations (if they are indeed genuine). I wasn't asking anybody to do any research. You can't do any such research unless you have access to old BTSC. I asked if anybody could point to a time I made some elaborate endgame-in-mind scheme on Day 1. Memory is all anybody needs for that.

But I can go ahead and say the answer to that is no, because it isn't how I operate. You can keep claiming I'm operating in a way I never have before if it's convenient for you.

why did you say you won't be voting for cbob or mesk today?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

Wait a minute.

How does Long Con know Mesk, coolonialbob, and Sloonei are civilians?

This is not posted in good faith.

Clearly the accusation is that Epi is buddying civvies as scum doesn't buddy their own teammates.

Course, civvy Epi doesn't always post in good faith.

[Epignosis]

Combined with suspicious nonlynchcandidate declarations, I think this is worthy of a vote.

I retracted my good opinion of Mesk after she posted something that didn't align with my initial perspective. I'm still thinking her over.

What is suspicious of saying who I won't vote for? I have to come to a decision somehow, and eliminating people from my pool is one way to accomplish that.

Why don't you share your opinions on colonialbob and Mesk, if my takes are suspicious to you?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Long Con

Your accusation against me only works if all three of Mesk, colonialbob, and Sloonei are civilians. There is no way to know this if you are a civilian. The irony of you accusing me of "buddying" two of three is noted, because by labeling all three as civilians, one could argue that you are "buddying" three people.

Of course, civvy Epi rarely votes not in good faith.

[Kylemii]

I'd really like to hear [mention]Mesk514[/mention]'s thoughts on current events. My thoughts are clouded by past meta and I think an outsiders' viewpoint could bring some clarity

[Jackofhearts2005]

Combined with suspicious nonlynchcandidate declarations, I think this is worthy of a vote.

I retracted my good opinion of Mesk after she posted something that didn't align with my initial perspective. I'm still thinking her over.

What is suspicious of saying who I won't vote for? I have to come to a decision somehow, and eliminating people from my pool is one way to accomplish that.

Why don't you share your opinions on colonialbob and Mesk, if my takes are suspicious to you?

Null reads on both.

*Vote Epi*

[Sloonei]

I'd really like to hear @Mesk514's thoughts on current events. My thoughts are clouded by past meta and I think an outsiders' viewpoint could bring some clarity

Talk about your clouded thoughts. I want to hear them.

[Epignosis]

Classic. "If you can't do a ton of research and find that I acted the exact same way previously, then your accusation can't be right." Do people still buy that forced-meta crap?

If you can't back up your accusations with, you know, facts, you should reconsider your accusations (if they are indeed genuine). I wasn't asking anybody to do any research. You can't do any such research unless you have access to old BTSC. I asked if anybody could point to a time I made some elaborate endgame-in-mind scheme on Day 1. Memory is all anybody needs for that.

But I can go ahead and say the answer to that is no, because it isn't how I operate. You can keep claiming I'm operating in a way I never have before if it's convenient for you.

why did you say you won't be voting for cbob or mesk today?

I said I wouldn't vote for colonialbob today because he got my Elton John reference. I appreciated that.

I said I wouldn't vote for Mesk because of how she responded to the question about being big or little. She said she didn't know. That gave me the impression that she isn't aware that the mafia faction are little mountains, as she said she didn't know much about dirt. Without having any other experience with Mesk, I found that to be a guileless response.

My good opinion of Mesk went south when she said, "I'm pretty sure someone told me a civilian is scum" because that does look like trying too hard to be ignorant (no offense intended).

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]Sloonei[/mention]
[mention]colonialbob[/mention]

What do you think of Epi's vote for LC?

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei
@colonialbob

What do you think of Epi's vote for LC?

I'm not loving this version of Epignosis. He seems to be working harder at discrediting the accusations against him than actually figuring out the players making the accusations. This doesn't look like the crafty town Epignosis who will get under people's skin for the sake of reading them without any fear or regard for his own appearance. Instead he looks like he's trying to fight his way out of a corner.

[Epignosis]

@Sloonei
@colonialbob

What do you think of Epi's vote for LC?

I'm not loving this version of Epignosis. He seems to be working harder at discrediting the accusations against him than actually figuring out the players making the accusations. This doesn't look like the crafty town Epignosis who will get under people's skin for the sake of reading them without any fear or regard for his own appearance. Instead he looks like he's trying to fight his way out of a corner.

This is the version of Epignosis that is tired of Long Con making shit up about him.

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei
@colonialbob

What do you think of Epi's vote for LC?

I'm not loving this version of Epignosis. He seems to be working harder at discrediting the accusations against him than actually figuring out the players making the accusations. This doesn't look like the crafty town Epignosis who will get under people's skin for the sake of reading them without any fear or regard for his own appearance. Instead he looks like he's trying to fight his way out of a corner.

This is the version of Epignosis that is tired of Long Con making shit up about him.

I'll grant you that this is not the first time I've seen this show. But Long Con is not the only player who's said things about you.

If you could draw our attention to another player who's been off the radar so far, who would it be?

[colonialbob]

@Sloonei
@colonialbob

What do you think of Epi's vote for LC?

I don't love it. He pretty clearly misinterpreted the "3 civs" thing, per your previous statement. Whether that's on purpose or just as a defense, who knows.

That said, I think LC's take against Epi was pretty weak. It's Day 1, saying you won't vote for somebody today is a viable way of narrowing the lynch pool as a way of getting into the game. He did pick two new (to the Syndicate) players, so maybe he's a scum hoping a new player latches on to it? Idk, seems weak.

All that said though I'm not interested in narrowing the focus just to the two of them just yet. I actually like Sloonei's line of questioning - let's hear actual thoughts Kyle.

*votes kyle*

[Sloonei]

I'd really like to hear @Mesk514's thoughts on current events. My thoughts are clouded by past meta and I think an outsiders' viewpoint could bring some clarity

I don't like this post. In Pirates mafia (the one and only game I've ever seen Kyle play to this point), he was an active force early in the game. He's been more passive so far in this game, so I prodded him for reads. Five minutes later, he came out with this, absent of content but calling for more content from the newcomer. This post is fluff and an excuse to delay participation in the game.

[Jackofhearts2005]

You leave Kyle alone.

[Epignosis]

@Sloonei
@colonialbob

What do you think of Epi's vote for LC?

I'm not loving this version of Epignosis. He seems to be working harder at discrediting the accusations against him than actually figuring out the players making the accusations. This doesn't look like the crafty town Epignosis who will get under people's skin for the sake of reading them without any fear or regard for his own appearance. Instead he looks like he's trying to fight his way out of a corner.

This is the version of Epignosis that is tired of Long Con making shit up about him.

I'll grant you that this is not the first time I've seen this show. But Long Con is not the only player who's said things about you.

If you could draw our attention to another player who's been off the radar so far, who would it be?

nutella, but I expressed doubt on that front. My problem with nutella is that I think I have been wrong on her every single time. Hell, last time I defended her Henry Fonda style, and she still turned out being bad.

At face value, I don't see how her comments about Quin's reasons for voting me or agreeing with you and LC make any sense. She said she'd vote for me if she didn't get anything better. That's weak, and sounds like she was just getting in an early comment about me so she could more comfortably vote against me later in the day. I have a hard time believing she was genuine there.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nutella is supatown as town and not when she's bad. She killed it as a Phenon civvy I had this whole fake suspicion on her for her not being aggressive enough when we were scum together in ME that was of course a legit line of questioning I never got around to pushing cause I didn't want her dead.

What's the problem, Epi?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Also Henry Fonda sounds like an old people movie person and I don't know what you mean.

I've seen 12 Angry Men like 12 times and none of his other stuff iirc.

[Epignosis]

Nutella is supatown as town and not when she's bad. She killed it as a Phenon civvy I had this whole fake suspicion on her for her not being aggressive enough when we were scum together in ME that was of course a legit line of questioning I never got around to pushing cause I didn't want her dead.

What's the problem, Epi?

I explained the problem. See above.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nutella is supatown as town and not when she's bad. She killed it as a Phenon civvy I had this whole fake suspicion on her for her not being aggressive enough when we were scum together in ME that was of course a legit line of questioning I never got around to pushing cause I didn't want her dead.

What's the problem, Epi?

I explained the problem. See above.

Is the problem that I'm a better townie than you?

(Today is Pick On Epi Day)