Mountain Mafia [END]

[speedchuck]

Matterhorn, K2, and Elbrus are the most powerful town roles IMO.

why do you think K2 is one of the most important town roles?

To me, most of the town roles are pretty bad. Extra votes or missing votes, Malakim's role being able to copy the higher roles if he manages to target them, etc.

Where does the role say anything about managing to target them?

Assumption of mine, yes.

K2 gives us an opinion that we 100% know is a town opinion, and that we can take at face value. It is as useful as the person using it can make it, disregarding other votes and random targeting. It's not a game-changer, but it's constantly useful and usable.

The longer that role is alive, the more dangerous it becomes.

Agreed.

Stopping a lynch is useless.

Not at all.

The town's one weapon is their lynch. It is their best method of obtaining information. A role that stops the lynch prevents information gain, gives scum a free kill, and isn't necessarily even protecting town. I consider it to be more likely to do ill than good.

Permanent BTSC is good, but the mountains have to hope they get lucky to get it.

The same comment regarding K2 applies here.

Agreed. But scum is likely to accidentally kill one of those roles. And as soon as one dies, the other is useless. Independence > dependence.

Surviving is good, but at the point I posted this, I assumed that the survival was over. And besides, I was talking about who mafia would target. The survival isn't a role that matters until it is targeted. It doesn't threaten scum actively.

Would you consider a protector a powerful civilian role? I would. Survival roles are basically like a protector automatically gets his target right. That's even more powerful.

Protectors can nullify the scum kill multiple times. Survival roles only come into effect when scum targets them... which doesn't make them a priority for scum to target. They are just there. When scum hits them, it'll take two tries to kill them. Not going to change their priority, which was the original context that I was being asked about.

Killing a player that helped lynch you is more likely to result in 2 town death than a real vengeance against mafia.

So are lynches. By that thinking, we should never lynch anybody.

Lynches are reasoned by a comittee. Killing a player that tried to lynch you is an individual decision, and thus less well-advised. So this is basically a conditional vig kill that can't be used on an inactive.
I will concede that it can be pretty good if used well. Still conditional and easily misused.

Kenya is a vig, which is cool, but it's very easy to misdirect. It would be in my top list if it weren't for the chances downgrading over time. I'll bet it tried to kill INH or someone at some point.

How is it very easy to misdirect?

As above, an individually-reasoned kill... is I guess only influenced by town, from one perspective. All vigs are easy to misdirect. The power of this role depends on how quickly it degrades, I suppose.

If the mafia are inactive and only JJJ was active, then he may have killed Spacedaisy, and Kenya could have killed JackofHearts, who was quite suspected. The nightkills are both written in the passive voice, and I have little reason to believe Kenya targeted Spacedaisy. I have some reason to think Kenya targeted JackofHearts, which leaves open the possibility that Jack was indeed bad, but again, we must regard the "if" here, given three deathless Nights. If Jack is bad, he would have to be the unluckiest mafia member I have ever seen.

I didn't even think about this. Hum. Unlikely, but worth considering.

Insanifying has the targeting problem, and then it's just insanifying. If you insanify mafia, it just gives them an excuse to be silent. If you insanify town . . . Insanifying should be a scum role. Really.

More or less agreed.

Blanc might be good. I don't know what it means to take a look at 3rd party. The other two roles are a switch, which is situational, and another role that inhibits the lynch, which is meh. We weren't going to lynch Epi anyway.

If anything, removing someone from the poll lets everyone else know Blanc is alive and well.

Fair enough.

K2 isn't as powerful as an info role. It isn't as powerful as a reliable vig, a desperado, or a gifter of some type. But it's active, not passive, and it works without dependence on lucky targets. It provides town with a reliably honest viewpoint. I'd put it up there.
But hey, I'm weird like that.


linki: is that something you could see someone doing to their teammate? It's an easily waived... accusation? Is it even an accusation?

I'm not altogether sure why you spent an entire post lamenting your perceived lack of civilian firepower.

For one thing, I don't agree with that. When you compare what the civilians are working with to a vanilla killer, a blocker, a -1 vote that has to be called ahead of time, and a singular self-protection each Night, I'd say the civilians are well-equipped.

Pah. This is a role madness game. You can't give Civs all powerful roles and expect to find balance. So we have some weaker roles than normal, and that puts K2 near the top. Which is the point I was trying to make. K2 is a great role.

Of course we're well-equipped, despite our lack of inforoles. 3 nightkills have been blocked (probably, could be 4, could maybe be less if inactivity), two players might have BTSC townfirms by now, one fellow might have an inferred cop check, and so on. I was only justifying that K2 is better than most might think, and IMO one of the best roles we have.

[Long Con]

But how the fuck am I "replying to everything that I'm not trying hard"?

You have multiple posts stating that you are less involved or tryharding this game than usual, or similar stuff.

Ok, if that's what you really believe will get you a win. At least I'll have a few days before that policy takes me down.

[dunya]

if both sig and INH were on the scum team, and both inactive, malakim would have replaced in for scum for sure. It's definitely one and not the other or maybe neither.

But let's talk about speedchuck and colonialbob.

I don't think that's logical.

sig was not completely inactive, and had stated in his first post that there would be a stretch where he would not be particularly active.

Glorfindel never posted at all. insertnamehere replaced him and said nothing but was active elsewhere. I doubt the host would use another replacement for this role regardless of alignment until the other spots got a replacement first.

MP was mafia and got replaced.

Dom was a civilian and got replaced.

Assuming you are a civilian, that's two civilian replacements and at least one mafia replacement.

There's no reason to assume the host would favor the mafia faction with replacements over civilians.

I think it's very logical.

I didn't say the host favors the mafia faction, but I don't think the host would have seen 2 inactive members of the scum team (which is 50% of their roles) and decide instead to sub mal into our otherwise only inactive townie tole. That creates imbalance, since at least one of the scum roles we know depends on another. He's not going to shoot them in both feet.

If sig/INH are both mafia, one of them would have been replaced/replaced again before Dom was for the balance of the game, since we know for certainty now no more replacements will exist this far into the game.

This theory is to debunk sig/INH, w/w pairing.

[Kylemii]

ok re reading all of Day 1 again, and post Day 1, I feel better about what happened then.

(I'm doing side reads on people I have mild suspicions of or people I have actively cleared town as I go along the thread again with my bob/speed cases)

I didn't like Kyle's questions and comments to nutella during the eod 1.

Would someone recall if it was Kyle's vote that was last to move onto nutella? That would help me.

I believe my vote was the one that put nutella's visible vote count at -1 of LC's apparent vote count.

[dunya]

ok re reading all of Day 1 again, and post Day 1, I feel better about what happened then.

(I'm doing side reads on people I have mild suspicions of or people I have actively cleared town as I go along the thread again with my bob/speed cases)

I didn't like Kyle's questions and comments to nutella during the eod 1.

Would someone recall if it was Kyle's vote that was last to move onto nutella? That would help me.

I believe my vote was the one that put nutella's visible vote count at -1 of LC's apparent vote count.

ok thanks. Did everyone know if there was a tie the lynch wouldn't go through on D1? is that standard mafia rules?

[Elohcin]

I mean.... it's possible one of the role secrets is a protect or a roleblock but.... 2/5 is a really bad murder success record.

This is true. Is there is a protect or roleblock secret, then that person must have a leprechaun in his butt. And if so...keep up the good work.

If not, then I think JJJ might have been the only really active baddie and that's why he played so shitty (no offense J). Anyone know of a game where JJJ was a lonesome baddie and know how he played in it? Let's see...some quiet/quieter players include Sig, INH, Wilgy, even Epi and nutella have been quieter than usual imo and could have missed deadlines. Think about how the end of phases have been pretty all over the place as well. It could have caused missing the deadline. I don't know. Lots to think about. Lots more to read too.

[Kylemii]

ok re reading all of Day 1 again, and post Day 1, I feel better about what happened then.

(I'm doing side reads on people I have mild suspicions of or people I have actively cleared town as I go along the thread again with my bob/speed cases)

I didn't like Kyle's questions and comments to nutella during the eod 1.

Would someone recall if it was Kyle's vote that was last to move onto nutella? That would help me.

I believe my vote was the one that put nutella's visible vote count at -1 of LC's apparent vote count.

ok thanks. Did everyone know if there was a tie the lynch wouldn't go through on D1? is that standard mafia rules?

I'm answering this from memory but I think we were told that a day 1 tie would be a no lynch by marmot after the fact

[Elohcin]

Anyone got any good reasons to choose either sig or inh over the other?

Sig has posts and INH doesn't is the only reason I can think of. I would think if someone opened their role PM and saw it was scum, they would at least ty a little bit to help out his/her team rather than just being a total no-show. I think ita more likely that a civ is the no-show.

[Elohcin]

I still feel like voting for bob or maybe Long Con if we prefer to go after an active player. There does have to be at least one active scum remaining, after all.

That's where I'm at too btw, I just think it's getting a little too weird unlikely.

now if you'll excuse me I gotta go build a Disneyland mafia

If we go for an active. I think bob or lx at thia point as well.

only if you call it Disney World Mafia instead.

[dunya]

Anyone got any good reasons to choose either sig or inh over the other?

Sig has posts and INH doesn't is the only reason I can think of. I would think if someone opened their role PM and saw it was scum, they would at least ty a little bit to help out his/her team rather than just being a total no-show. I think ita more likely that a civ is the no-show.

you'd be surprised...

[Kylemii]

I mean.... it's possible one of the role secrets is a protect or a roleblock but.... 2/5 is a really bad murder success record.

This is true. Is there is a protect or roleblock secret, then that person must have a leprechaun in his butt. And if so...keep up the good work.

If not, then I think JJJ might have been the only really active baddie and that's why he played so shitty (no offense J). Anyone know of a game where JJJ was a lonesome baddie and know how he played in it? Let's see...some quiet/quieter players include Sig, INH, Wilgy, even Epi and nutella have been quieter than usual imo and could have missed deadlines. Think about how the end of phases have been pretty all over the place as well. It could have caused missing the deadline. I don't know. Lots to think about. Lots more to read too.

I don't think that's even the only conclusion to come to with that information set of inferences. This game has been less than forgiving with phase end times, I could see a couple kills getting missed cus baddie-B went to bed 7 hours ago thinking that her teammate Jay was going to send it in, and Baddie-C was busy at work and couldn't check btsc or something.

[speedchuck]

Missing kills:
N1 - almost everyone was here
N2 - went on for like five days
N5 - INH and Sig completely inactive, all other living players around enough to handle the kill. 3 Scum left unless Jack was scum vig kill which is very unlikely because it would mean a missing mafia kill on N4.

I really don't think inactivity is the problem with the kills. Scumteam is only inactive if JJJ/Jack/Sig/INH is our scumteam. And if that's the case (assuming Jack got vigkilled), then we have an extra nightkill on N4 that didn't happen while Jack was alive to submit it.

linki: eehhhh I guess inactivity could be less absolute, but come on

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Me and Soneji are thinking of making a Disney/Pixar mafia (I'm a Pixar fanboy, he loves Disney). Some day. After I get through my other projects.

[Kylemii]

I don't think pure inactivity could possibly be 100% of the problem.

A mafia team of inactivity would be crazy. If the mafia has been missing PMs I think time zone fuckery is more likely to play a part in it.

[dunya]

I mean.... it's possible one of the role secrets is a protect or a roleblock but.... 2/5 is a really bad murder success record.

This is true. Is there is a protect or roleblock secret, then that person must have a leprechaun in his butt. And if so...keep up the good work.

If not, then I think JJJ might have been the only really active baddie and that's why he played so shitty (no offense J). Anyone know of a game where JJJ was a lonesome baddie and know how he played in it? Let's see...some quiet/quieter players include Sig, INH, Wilgy, even Epi and nutella have been quieter than usual imo and could have missed deadlines. Think about how the end of phases have been pretty all over the place as well. It could have caused missing the deadline. I don't know. Lots to think about. Lots more to read too.

I don't think that's even the only conclusion to come to with that information set of inferences. This game has been less than forgiving with phase end times, I could see a couple kills getting missed cus baddie-B went to bed 7 hours ago thinking that her teammate Jay was going to send it in, and Baddie-C was busy at work and couldn't check btsc or something.

I love the female representation in your thoughts. No joke.

[Kylemii]

Me and Soneji are thinking of making a Disney/Pixar mafia (I'm a Pixar fanboy, he loves Disney). Some day. After I get through my other projects.

as long as it's not a Disneyland mafia where the rides are the roles and the mafia are California Adventures rides and the indie role is Walt Disney's ghost

[Dragon D. Luffy]

and the indie role is Walt Disney's ghost

[Epignosis]

I'm ready!

Having said that I might not be posting much from Tuesday to Sunday

Ironically, sig was more active during this stretch than after it.

I am mesk, I am good! do you trust me?

that's how i feel about trust meta!

I like this guy.

Also wow y'all are jumping the barrel and getting right into it aren't you?

sig's first two relevant posts say something positive about two civilians (Mesk and me, below).

Put a vote on Spacedaisy. Do we believe her guilt to be coming from a place of empathy for game hosts everywhere, or from her role card?

I'm not really buying the idea that she feels guilty about rolling Mafia, making it affect her very first post in the game.

I don't understand this where did this come from? She didn't seem guilty in fact she was bragging about being a mafia member.

Hey Jack quick question, about how does accusing someone of being one of the Good Boyz poke them?

I take it you aren't married, having never poked someone in a nice way.

Also, there is no trust exercise. I was just saying hi.

My mind went straight to the gutter with this one.

I also don't get why anyone thinks Epi is mafia, he looks like he always does. So I won't be voting for him.

I have no idea where sig got the idea that Spacedaisy was bragging about being a mafia member. Spacedaisy said she enjoys being bad.

The defense of me rings hollow: If I look like I always do, doesn't that mean I look bad?

Seriously, if I am looking like I always do, that is hardly a reason for sig to believe I am a civilian.

Mesk I've seen drunk mafia before but never high mafia, I'm enjoying it.

Also wow I'm dumb I thought the phase ended tonight.

I'm on phone about to drive to Columbus so my post will be limited, right now I've got a minor scum read on LC. I think his interaction with epi was odd and I don't like the nutella wagon which he helped to push. However, i always think lc is bad and i could see him and Epi dick slinging to be town on town
Nutella looks like she always does to me.

I do find Epi's ddl vote to be odd, he very much avoided both wagons and any fallout by voting that way.

Mesk514 it'll take awhile for you to switch over to the infodumping rules, it took me quite a few games.

In this meatier post, sig makes another (mildly) positive comment toward Mesk.

The yellow bothers me for a number of reasons.

First, sig missed the vote, so the same complaint he raises against me he could have raised against himself. Or evil MP:

MovingPictures07
1
6%
Voters: MovingPictures07

Or Spacedaisy:

Sloonei
1
6%
Voters: Spacedaisy
Spacedaisy

So why single me out as "odd?" Was I obligated to vote nutella or Long Con? I don't believe I was. "Fallout" has a negative connotation, implying that I should have voted for a civilian to bring ire upon myself. The other irony is that sig doesn't apply any "fallout" to anybody who voted for nutella, who wasn't lynched but could not be mafia.

Even more ironic is what is wedged in between the yellow snow. sig didn't vote, but (sort of) implied that he would have voted Long Con for pushing a lynch on nutella (which would imply he thought nutella was good, which makes no sense if sig thinks I maybe should have voted for her or LC instead of DDL), but then in the same breath discredits his own opinion of LC with a sweeping generality and a comment that he "could see" both of us being good.

Nevermind I see Epi's reasoning.

What ever came of LC potential scum slip? That epi pointed out I don't see much mention of it, but I feel like there should be.

I'm not sure what the "never mind" applies to, but sig, despite feeling like people should be talking about it, doesn't have anything to say about it.

I'm semi caught up but skipped a few pages in the middle.

I don't like daisy going after me and sprit and other low posters that screams mafia. Targeting people who aren't around to one defend themselves and two yo lynch since you get less heat if they flip civ when lynched. Since they weren't active so no big deal. Is my thoughts regarding lynching low posters. I also don't like het posts on wilgy they seem like she's trying to spread paranoia

From my catch up eloh and epi look good. From what I've seen of wilgy I like. I've got a slight civ read of nutella and am a slight scum read on lc.

If I wanted to throw my vote somewhere I'd go for either daisy or maybe lc however given t he two wagons I'll look over the cases really fast.

I might make one or two more posts , I've got to be up early tomorrow to go out with my friends family and finish some homework so I might not.

It's worth noting that it is Day 5, and sig hasn't cast a single vote.

It's also worth noting that sig felt threatened by Spacedaisy and Spacedaisy was the first to die.

It's especially worth noting that sig, whether unwittingly or not, defended mafia MP by including him in his "don't lynch low posters" rant.

Without commenting on Wilgy himself, sig defended him by dismissing Spacedaisy's perspective as "trying to spread paranoia." What are civilians supposed to do? Hold hands and sing "Kumbaya?"

I don't like daisy going after me and sprit and other low posters that screams mafia. Targeting people who aren't around to one defend themselves and two yo lynch since you get less heat if they flip civ when lynched. Since they weren't active so no big deal. Is my thoughts regarding lynching low posters. I also don't like het posts on wilgy they seem like she's trying to spread paranoia.

1. My case against you and at first sprityo was never about low posters. It was about people who had been somewhat active but their content was so minimal that it was forgettable to me. So nice misrepresentation there.

2. I'm not spreading paranoia, I'm trying to sort through my own feelings and figure out if it's tinfoil insanity or really something. Also, if I was spreading paranoia I would not be so willing to hear other opinions and adjust based on good points in response.

This accusation was definitively a no u and it really makes me like the look of you even less.

It might've been a little no uish. However, I do see a main argument of your case being that we're low posters which is a slippery and dangerous route to follow.

2. That's something someone trying to spread paranoia would say.

linki: Jack would you mind explaining why you think you were almost lynched?

This post feels honest to me, and then we get this one:

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

sig has no included JJJ in his condemnation of apparent "low-poster hunters," which pleases me. It's a small thing, and of course one always is swift to raise the "distancing theory," but going after 3J is a task in itself, one that sig clearly had no time to invest in. To give the illusion any credibility, sig would have needed to tangle with 3J and vote for him- neither of which occurred.

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

Why does Jack get your favorable outlook here?

So assuming nutella is who I think she is, then Jack was leading the lynch. True there might be other vote things going on, but I feel like neither Jack nor sloonie would make sense for the mafia team to target with their minus 1. Unless we're all way off with mafia members.

Jack didn't die and I only saw one known role that can survive a lynch. If it wasn't Jack then it's sloonie.

The only other role would be the 3rd party. Usually I'm very anti Third party, however it doesn't appear that this role is a SK so I don't care much and would rather focus on mafia. Therefore one of them must be a civ.

Thanks nutella. It is strange, but I'm not sure I'd lynch on it.

Now I must be off to Thanksgiving lunch/dinner. I'll try to phone post a bit, but we'll see.

linki: True, if it starts killing I say we hunt it otherwise I'd say it's more important to go after mafia members and if we hit Olympus Mons it isn't a big loss

These posts look like an honest effort to work out what was going on with the lynch.

I'm here, I'll be catching up and addressing any posts directed at me tonight after my class so around 8ish and tomorrow.

I hope sig has not literally fallen off a cliff.

++++

JJJ had more to say about sig then sig did about him:

sig as a civilian pirate was more engaged and effortful in the high-octane Day 1 aboard the pirate ship than he was in this high-octane Day 1. Bad vibes.

Comparing sig's performance here to one in which he (I assume) had more time to invest in doesn't strike me as fair.

I have no reason to read sig as a civilian.

This is the most substantive post in his history, and it's a bit of a hedge with regard to Epi and LC. He's positioned to do whatever he wants with regard to that feud.

There wasn't much to go off of regarding sig, who hadn't posted much. This sounds to me like 3J felt forced to say more about sig than he needed to, an extravagant commentary that gives 3J a license to vote for sig if things swing that way.

I don't expect anyone to make any massive posts. I like and encourage massive posts, but I have not demanded them. I have said that in a game that moves this quickly, a pace you acknowledge in this post, that a mafia team is more challenged to keep up than they typically would be. This presents a condition wherein, if my premise is accepted, low-posters would be more likely to flip mafia than they would in most other [slower-paced] games. Do you disagree with this premise?

It must be stated that simply "lynch a low-poster" is not adequate for a day's dialogue. Assess everyone as always, and if it is a low-poster who is lynched, ensure that it's an educated choice based upon whatever content does exist among them.

I clearly must have missed this post, because I believe I would have jumped all over it.

"A mafia team is more challenged to keep up than they typically would be."

You don't say.

More posts mean it's more challenging for everyone to keep up. This is a garbage premise that effectively means JJJ was ready to lynch any and all low-posters. Why would a person's ability to keep up with the thread be indicative of his alignment?

SPRITYO/DUNYA
SIG
EPIGNOSIS

good
bad
good

Uh-huh.

Oh!

Re: Jimmy attacking Sig

Not fair to compare early pirates Sig to late pirates Sig and then contrast early pirates Sig with Sig here cause he got real busy irl. I want to hear more from Sig and won't give him a pass all game but still. Not a fair comparison imo.

Jay, thoughts on this post?

Jack's point is fair enough. It is true that sig was busy. My willingness to give people a break for that is limited, because I have seen too many bad guys use that as an excuse to hide from the game thread (including myself in the past). That doesn't have to mean sig was doing that.

In reading through JJJ's posts, the general impression I am getting is that 3J perceived that his pathway to success needed to be paved by the bodies of the busy and the bereft of time.

He had a go at Elohcin and lynched Mesk and here left the door wide open to jump on sig.

As a side note, this observation makes me immediately suspicious of this:

Anyone got any good reasons to choose either sig or inh over the other?

Nothing game related persay, but I think I'd rather lynch INH thinking on it. INH is an inactive replacement with a combined 0 posts and sig is an inactive with some posts. I'd prefer INH on principle.

It's worth giving sig a look since he has some content at least. I have enough motivation for that.

I've just pulled some posts that stand out.

Spoiler: show

Mesk I've seen drunk mafia before but never high mafia, I'm enjoying it.

Also wow I'm dumb I thought the phase ended tonight.

I'm on phone about to drive to Columbus so my post will be limited, right now I've got a minor scum read on LC. I think his interaction with epi was odd and I don't like the nutella wagon which he helped to push. However, i always think lc is bad and i could see him and Epi dick slinging to be town on town
Nutella looks like she always does to me.

I do find Epi's ddl vote to be odd, he very much avoided both wagons and any fallout by voting that way.

Mesk514 it'll take awhile for you to switch over to the infodumping rules, it took me quite a few games.

sig dislikes the nutella wagon but doesn't give an opinion on anyone involved in it besides LC and Epi at any point. His LC talk here is just sitting on the fence.

Spoiler: show

I'm semi caught up but skipped a few pages in the middle.

I don't like daisy going after me and sprit and other low posters that screams mafia. Targeting people who aren't around to one defend themselves and two yo lynch since you get less heat if they flip civ when lynched. Since they weren't active so no big deal. Is my thoughts regarding lynching low posters. I also don't like het posts on wilgy they seem like she's trying to spread paranoia

From my catch up eloh and epi look good. From what I've seen of wilgy I like. I've got a slight civ read of nutella and am a slight scum read on lc.

If I wanted to throw my vote somewhere I'd go for either daisy or maybe lc however given t he two wagons I'll look over the cases really fast.

I might make one or two more posts , I've got to be up early tomorrow to go out with my friends family and finish some homework so I might not.

NO U.

Spoiler: show

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

Why does Jack get your favorable outlook here?

So assuming nutella is who I think she is, then Jack was leading the lynch. True there might be other vote things going on, but I feel like neither Jack nor sloonie would make sense for the mafia team to target with their minus 1. Unless we're all way off with mafia members.

Jack didn't die and I only saw one known role that can survive a lynch. If it wasn't Jack then it's sloonie.

The only other role would be the 3rd party. Usually I'm very anti Third party, however it doesn't appear that this role is a SK so I don't care much and would rather focus on mafia. Therefore one of them must be a civ.

Put this here because I wanted to say that I agree with what sig's putting down re: EoD2. I don't have any inclination in reading the actual post.

---

I'd lynch him. The lack of night kills means more to me than any of that ^.

Quin

[Dragon D. Luffy]

ok re reading all of Day 1 again, and post Day 1, I feel better about what happened then.

(I'm doing side reads on people I have mild suspicions of or people I have actively cleared town as I go along the thread again with my bob/speed cases)

I didn't like Kyle's questions and comments to nutella during the eod 1.

Would someone recall if it was Kyle's vote that was last to move onto nutella? That would help me.

From the thread it lookslike Sloonei and Jay were the last ones in quick sucession, while Kyle was the third one, based on order of votes called.

[colonialbob]

I'm smellin what Epi is cookin (although it could be those delicious-looking cakes I suppose), and I've expressed suspicion before, so:

Quin

[Long Con]

I liked Epi's thoughts on sig, in addition to my own, so I'll cast a vote there right now.

[Epignosis]

So you did, did you?

[dunya]

cbob thoughts incoming

Spoiler: show

Everyone should tell me what things in this thread you feel are most important/most warrant my attention and discussion among those I didn't just address.

I'd be interested in thoughts on me/jack/LC. Also the vote swapping from Epi to Nutella

I actually was just looking at your ISO. The long exchange you had with Jack at least looked dissociative (if that wasn't a word before it is now) -- I don't think you look like tiny mountains together. That point has limited value at present with no flips but whatever it came to mind.

I am less perturbed by your early poop fling at Sloonei than I was with DDL given that yours came first and it didn't last. I suggested in my puke that I think Jack looks good, at least for the point I raised. Could you summarize your suspicion of him for me? I raised concerns with LC separately, mostly relating to his dealings with Epignosis.

Also I am not entirely clear on everything that transpired with regard to vote movement. I'll need some help on that before I can offer much insight, otherwise I'll see you after I check myself.

It's kinda meta. His posting early on reminded me of his play in the HCRealms/Syndicate crossover, where he kept going on meta tangents and shunting the thread away from actual reads. He was mafia that game, I called him out D1 and got NKed for it. But he's provided some reads since then, and while I don't entirely agree with him on say LC/Epi, his posts feel genuine enough that I'm fine with him now.

Jay asks colonialbob what his suspicions of Jack are. This whole exchange reads differently after you know Jay is scum. Is it distancing? I don't think so.

I noticed that Jay did that various times in this game to townies, because Jay was distracted and wanted to possibly build loose suspicions and cases he could expand and exaggerate on against townies (because if there's one thing Jay does good, it's bullshit). I can't see Scum Jay asking Scum Bob about building a case on Townie Jack.

First point against Bob being scum. First townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show

I'ma kick today off with a rainbow, avoiding yellows to the best of my ability. with lots of yellows given the two replacements and extreme low posters. I hope to find a better place for them today.
Kylemii
Long Con
nutella
speedchuck
Spacedaisy
colonialbob
Dom
DrWilgy
JaggedJimmyJay
insertnamehere
sig
sprityo
Mesk514
Jackofhearts2005
Elohcin
Dragon D. Luffy
Sloonei
Epignosis

I will take questions. Unless your question is "Why do you have every read you have", in which case, suck a brick.

Why am I on the same end as Epi and the opposite end of LC?

This... is a darn good question.

Is it?

You said you'd be willing to answer questions.

I did. And I answered it too, but I'm not sure why it's of interest to bob.

Because it's a weird grouping of reads and I wanted to know why you did it.

I didn't like this. I didn't understand how it was a weird grouping of reads. I did not see what colonialbob was seeing. I don't think the post is indicative of his alignment, I just didn't like it because it adds no value and kind of appears out of the blue for no reason other than....he was online when it occured? I don't see Bob commenting on everyone's lists--he specifically chose that one.

I don't like to subtract townie points for ambiguity alone, but I feel I have to with this one because I didn't like the defence.

First point for Bob being scum. First scum point for Bob.

Spoiler: show

Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

@Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.

So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

Cbob prods Jay again for no other reason that to prod Jay. I can't see scum cbob asking scum Jay to elaborate on something that scum Jay was clearning Sloonei for and scum cbob wanted to prod further and (possibly) incriminate.

Spoiler: show

Moreover I think the low-poster lynch strategy is ideal under these conditions.

Explain please. I'm also curious why you're defending somebody you didn't seem to be fully onboard with as town.

same as above, he questions Jay on theories. At worst a scummy cbob would have just ignored Jay and tried to latch onto someone else. He was prodding hard as early as this, I don't see it as scum cbob with scum Jay.

Second point against Bob being scum. Second townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show

Interested to see this flip, I'm like 50/50 that Jack and Sloons are w/w

also please elaborate on these reads.

Maybe a little tin-foily, but caused by Jack voting sprit instead of you (or more accurately, voting you then quickly changing votes). If he's civ, why not self-preserve? Sure he may rather vote sprit than you but if y'all are tied there's at least a 50% chance of losing town anyway. If he's mafia and you're civ, why not vote for self-preservation and hopefully get a civvie mislynch with a totally justifiable vote? But if you're w/w, his self-preservation vote doesn't buy him cred, the outcome for the team is the same either way, and by voting a third person there's a chance somebody switches and gives mafia a chance to avoid the lynch.

(This was my pre-flip analysis, not taking into account that apparently nobody can die this game)

more Sloonei prodding here, but I'm glad for this question because I like his reply. There's townie logic here. He is theorizing in a way that I think is townie-centric. I like the direction of his thoughts and suspicions. I feel they are genuine thoughts and not framing.

Third point against Bob being scum. Third townie point for Bob.


----

I'd like to say at this point it's frustrating reading cbob's ISO because it's a giant pile of fending off suspicion and accusations and answering sloonei. It reminds me a lot of what I endured in the Seinfeld game against JJJ (we were both town) and it limits a townie's efforts of actually being a contirbuting scum hunter because they have to spend all their time and energy explaining and reexplaining and making excuses. For the majority of of post Day 1 and Day 2, that's what cBob went though and it'll be really upset if it was all townie/townie action.

----

and then it's queue JJJ to break the Sloonei/cbob pattern

Spoiler: show

That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.

Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?

He threw out a case on Eloh, nobody followed out and somebody disagreed with it, he moved off Eloh but expressed he was still fine voting her. Similarly, his "I could end up on Epi." In my experience mafia often try to gain consensus on their votes and are less likely to stake bold voting positions.

(Keep in mind part of his defense was "this is normal play for me," but I've essentially never played with him before. I modded one game on another site that I think you ebbed up replacing him, I was only alive one cycle in Crossover (and maybe he was modding?), and CC123 is far from a normal game)

Trying to look at these encounters as w/w and reasoning how likely that is.

JJJ pops out again, and senses some frustration in scum partner cbob for all the heat he's getting and questions him more about Sloonei.

Is it possible? Sure. Do I personally find it likely Jay would do that, at that specific moment, creating this specific conversation itt on purpose? No, I don't.

I mean, Jay avoided several posts I made directed towards him. He could have easily avoided butting into a conversation where cBob was explaining himself to Sloonei in a heated exchange. The fact he didn't, meant he was in a way, enjoying this was happening imo.

Fourth point against Bob being scum. Fourth townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show

If I survive the night ( ) and find the time, I will ISO Cbob and determine how I feel -- he's sort of blended in for most of the game and has that problem of seeming active but still quite forgettable (I really didn't notice him/remember he was there until the end of day 2 with the sloonei stuff), so that's really not a good look, though I still think I generally got a slightly more civ vibe from him than from some others. I did like Sloonei's case, so I'm looking forward to seeing what else I find in his iso. I can be very guilty of confirmation bias when iso-ing though, so I'll try to be open-minded and look for both town tells and scum tells.

Feel like several players did. Gonna be honest (picking on your post here but several people have said this), I'm tired of the "active but forgettable" statement. How do I even defend against that? "Sorry, I'll try shouting more?" Picking out posts is fine (even if I very much disagree with several of Sloonei's criticisms) but vague accusation is vague.

Genuine frustration imho. I'll kind of answer this one for you cBob (because I've been there before), it's because you have to spend most of your game time feigning off accusations, over and over and over again, thus your actual new contributions become less than the defenses you are spending the bulk of your time making.

Fifth point against Bob being scum. Fifth townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei, why didn't you vote for Jack when it became apparent a sprityo lynch was unlikely to happen?

I was not suspicious of Jack at the time. I was holding out hope that somebody would jump over to sprityo last second.

something witty about being suspicious of me not actually being open to changing my vote but then exhibiting the exact same behavior

Ok I'm done for the night. Will be pretty busy tomorrow so don't expect me until evening.

damn son. No townie points credited here, but I really hate it when someone accuses me of something because they want to find a scum in me, but end up doing that something late in the game themselves.

-------

at this point, cBob makes his GTH reads.

Let's look at things we know:

He named Jay good, Jay is bad.
He named Jack bad, while we aren't 100% certain there's a 90% chance Jack is good.
He named Daisy good, Daisy seems good.
He named Mesk bad, Mesk was good.
He named Dom bad, Dom was good.

Just leaving this out there. IMO, this is a townie GTH. Although I sent Jay a 5 min opinion on why I think GTH reads are useless, I'm going to play along and say this is a good thing. I won't credit him Townie points for it, because I have a principle to maintain and that is that I think GTH reads are useless

----------

Spoiler: show

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

Why the change?

I can't see scum cBob questioning someone who is finally trying to view him as town. I can see a townie cBob doing that. Indeed, a townie dunya often does that because even when people are town-reading you, you want to know why and how because everyone and anyone can be suspicious, even your supporters. This was on board questioning with his GTH reads -- he questions Jack, who he believes is more bad than good.

Sixth point against Bob being scum. Sixth townie point for Bob.

Spoiler: show

Seeing some very potential JJJ/quin links page 65. Also, did tripJ ever explain his late swap from Eloh back to Mesk?

I didn't quite like this abrupt post, but then again, things were happening, Jay's name was popping up.

The next post made me feel a bit better:

Spoiler: show

I'm also bothered by the lack of votes in this day.

If Jay is bad, it would make sense for there to be some counter-wagon by now (maybe Wilgy is the counter wagon?). And I don't like how everyone who is voting for Jay is someone I'm currently townreading (well there is Jack, but I like current Jack more than Day 1 Jack so i'm still on the fence about him). Maybe mafia is just watching from afar, since the civs are doing their dirty work for them. So they don't need to expose themselves, by making bussing too obvious or risking discussion going against them.

Still catching up but had to comment on this. Jay seems a pretty obvious target for today - if he is bad he seems a better candidate for bussing than saving, especially considering his availability.

He was the first person to mention the bussing scenario. I like it. I feel it was authentic townie. I don't award people the same level of townie points who made the same observation after him.

Seventh point against Bob being scum. Seventh townie point for Bob.

-------

Next is the Jay lynching episode. There are way too many posts to quote, but post JJJ flip, is definitely Townie cBob making analysis on voting pattern. I realize a lot of people can argue this is all possible bussing, so I won't award any townie points but I feel it was a townie effort for the whole.

-------

I have to stop here for now.

I want to share what I have this far in. I just have way too much school work, sorry, guys. I'll try to finish cBob, but I think you get the gist of my read on him.

[dunya]

I typed all that in notepad, I apologize for typos or other errors but I don't even have time to re-read my post lol.

[dunya]

I think it stupid of me to start with cbob (who I think is town) and not try to look into speed (who I think is scum).

I have no idea right now who I'm voting for. I need good cases made for me that I can agree with.

[speedchuck]

I liked Epi's thoughts on sig, in addition to my own, so I'll cast a vote there right now.

Speed with the sudden entrance. I like it.

Voting LC for now.

[speedchuck]

I think it stupid of me to start with cbob (who I think is town) and not try to look into speed (who I think is scum).

I have no idea right now who I'm voting for. I need good cases made for me that I can agree with.

I told you to do me first. You can't handle me and cBob at the same time, and I figured he'd tire you out.

Good post though. Makes me want to vote sloonei Quin maybe.

[speedchuck]

I liked Epi's thoughts on sig, in addition to my own, so I'll cast a vote there right now.

Speed with the sudden entrance. I like it.

Voting LC for now.

This game has more content than any game I've ever played and nobody wants to read it.

[dunya]

people I think are town in no relevant order
dunya (well this is in relevant order cos I know myself and I'm the most likely townie ever obv)
colonialbob
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
Epignosis
Long Con
Sloonei
nutella
Quin

people I think can be scum in no relevant order
Elohcin
Kylemii
speedchuck
insertnamehere/sig (one, not both)

I kind of agree with epi on voting a low poster. Other than my suspicion of LC and my slight suspicion of nutella (half the time her posts crack me up and half the time I'm hinking wtf), I do think that the high posters seem to be civ and genuinely trying to help.

Elohcin
Mesk514
JaggedJimmyJay
Spacedaisy
Dragon D. Luffy
Epignosis
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Kylemii
DrWilgy
insertnamehere
colonialbob
sig
sprityo
Quin
Sloonei
Dom
nutella
Long Con

Dom is the only low poster singled out as a clear suspect. The others are all nondescriptly placed in yellow. And then the claim that "the high posters seem to be civ" is somewhat contradicted by Quin and I being colored orange, and kyle being listed among the neutrals as well. You think this computes over here?

I agree with this analysis, well done.

reminder to myself: follow up on this.

[dunya]

I'll do as much scanning of my smaller possible scumlist as I can before EoD and make an informed choice on who I want to vote for.

[Kylemii]

damn dunya, nice analysis post holy shit

[Epignosis]

Quin has made a bunch of posts and I cannot recall feeling much from any of them. Reminder to self to investigate.

In his first post about people, JJJ includes this blurb about Quin. Why? If he can't remember feeling much from any of Quin's posts, why say this? And what's up with, "Reminder to self to investigate?" Is 3J really going to go back over his giant post to see this to-do list?

No. Quin reminded him.

Also:

Quin pulled this move on Day 0. I think it's decent on a couple fronts:

1) It's effective for content generation.
2) This notion of "I have a suspicion, everyone else should tell me what it is" strikes me as an atypical means for a mafioso to either smear or distance.

Quin's Day 0 nonsense against me got the stamp of approval from JJJ.

Mind you, what applies to mafia equally applies to civilians. What civilian would come in Day 0 with " ima vote epignosis whenever and i'd like someone to tell me why that is" ?

I also note the careless misquoting of Quin's statement. Quin was asking why he was going to vote for me, not whom he was voting for.

[Long Con]

I liked Epi's thoughts on sig, in addition to my own, so I'll cast a vote there right now.

Speed with the sudden entrance. I like it.

Voting LC for now.

Hey, let me in on the joke!

[dunya]

I think it stupid of me to start with cbob (who I think is town) and not try to look into speed (who I think is scum).

I have no idea right now who I'm voting for. I need good cases made for me that I can agree with.

I told you to do me first. You can't handle me and cBob at the same time, and I figured he'd tire you out.

My bad, babez.

[speedchuck]

I liked Epi's thoughts on sig, in addition to my own, so I'll cast a vote there right now.

Speed with the sudden entrance. I like it.

Voting LC for now.

Hey, let me in on the joke!

I'm pretty sure Epi's post was pro-Sig. Like in cbob's post there, where I was pro-LC and then he voted LC. It's amusing when people say they like a post that defends someone and then votes for the defended.

[nutella]

Whooo lots of content. I am glad to see people coming around on Quin. I'm voting there.

[Marmot]

(but everyone thinks Everest is lame whereas I think Everest has the power to change a vote and I believe Everest was responsible for Day 1 no lynch -- so to devalue it is silly).

Well, in a sense, Everest itself has vanilla town value. When Everest dies, it's vote passes town to the next highest living mountain. So killing Everest is pointless. The vote will stay as long as town lives.

Which... raises some questions.
@Marmot
With town having an extra vote, will the game go to town if we get it down to 1 town 1 scum? Usually scum would overrun because they have a kill and the vote is deadlocked. But whatever townie is left would have 2 votes...

If the game gets to a state where there is only one possible outcome, the game will end immediately and the winner(s) declared.

The entire Everest ability passes down when it dies, not just the vote.

[speedchuck]

(but everyone thinks Everest is lame whereas I think Everest has the power to change a vote and I believe Everest was responsible for Day 1 no lynch -- so to devalue it is silly).

Well, in a sense, Everest itself has vanilla town value. When Everest dies, it's vote passes town to the next highest living mountain. So killing Everest is pointless. The vote will stay as long as town lives.

Which... raises some questions.
Marmot
With town having an extra vote, will the game go to town if we get it down to 1 town 1 scum? Usually scum would overrun because they have a kill and the vote is deadlocked. But whatever townie is left would have 2 votes...

If the game gets to a state where there is only one possible outcome, the game will end immediately and the winner(s) declared.

The entire Everest ability passes down when it dies, not just the vote.

Cool, thanks.

[Elohcin]

I'm smellin what Epi is cookin (although it could be those delicious-looking cakes I suppose), and I've expressed suspicion before, so:

Quin

This looks very go-along, get-along to me.

[Elohcin]

@JaggedJimmyJay Am I getting an ISO? You said you needed to look at me more closely.

Thanks for the reminder, bae. I'll get to it. For the moment I think you look alright -- I appreciate the reversal on Sloonei when he put up the colonialbob case.

This is one of the spoiler quotes in epi's post on quin/jjj. I thought it was worth putting it out there without spoiler tags. It does sound like two scumbuddies talking here.

[dunya]

a little bit of a pressure vote on Eloh. Eloh, are you still extremely busy IRL?

[Elohcin]

I liked Epi's thoughts on sig, in addition to my own, so I'll cast a vote there right now.

Speed with the sudden entrance. I like it.

Voting LC for now.

Hey, let me in on the joke!

I'm pretty sure Epi's post was pro-Sig. Like in cbob's post there, where I was pro-LC and then he voted LC. It's amusing when people say they like a post that defends someone and then votes for the defended.

It is funny. When Elochin understands that epi was defending sig then anyone can understand it. I think this means chuckyboy isn't paying close attention to what he's reading.

[Elohcin]

Woops...not chuck..sorry. you know what I mean

[dunya]

I liked Epi's thoughts on sig, in addition to my own, so I'll cast a vote there right now.

Speed with the sudden entrance. I like it.

Voting LC for now.

Hey, let me in on the joke!

I'm pretty sure Epi's post was pro-Sig. Like in cbob's post there, where I was pro-LC and then he voted LC. It's amusing when people say they like a post that defends someone and then votes for the defended.

It is funny. When Elochin understands that epi was defending sig then anyone can understand it. I think this means chuckyboy isn't paying close attention to what he's reading.

I think speedchuck understood that just fine; he was pointing out that Long Con didn't.

[Elohcin]

Don't tou have some studying to do

[Long Con]

Green for pro-sig

Blue for neutral

Red for anti-sig

I'm ready!

Having said that I might not be posting much from Tuesday to Sunday

Ironically, sig was more active during this stretch than after it.

I am mesk, I am good! do you trust me?

that's how i feel about trust meta!

I like this guy.

Also wow y'all are jumping the barrel and getting right into it aren't you?

sig's first two relevant posts say something positive about two civilians (Mesk and me, below).

Put a vote on Spacedaisy. Do we believe her guilt to be coming from a place of empathy for game hosts everywhere, or from her role card?

I'm not really buying the idea that she feels guilty about rolling Mafia, making it affect her very first post in the game.

I don't understand this where did this come from? She didn't seem guilty in fact she was bragging about being a mafia member.

Hey Jack quick question, about how does accusing someone of being one of the Good Boyz poke them?

I take it you aren't married, having never poked someone in a nice way.

Also, there is no trust exercise. I was just saying hi.

My mind went straight to the gutter with this one.

I also don't get why anyone thinks Epi is mafia, he looks like he always does. So I won't be voting for him.

I have no idea where sig got the idea that Spacedaisy was bragging about being a mafia member. Spacedaisy said she enjoys being bad.

The defense of me rings hollow: If I look like I always do, doesn't that mean I look bad?

Seriously, if I am looking like I always do, that is hardly a reason for sig to believe I am a civilian.

Mesk I've seen drunk mafia before but never high mafia, I'm enjoying it.

Also wow I'm dumb I thought the phase ended tonight.

I'm on phone about to drive to Columbus so my post will be limited, right now I've got a minor scum read on LC. I think his interaction with epi was odd and I don't like the nutella wagon which he helped to push. However, i always think lc is bad and i could see him and Epi dick slinging to be town on town
Nutella looks like she always does to me.

I do find Epi's ddl vote to be odd, he very much avoided both wagons and any fallout by voting that way.

Mesk514 it'll take awhile for you to switch over to the infodumping rules, it took me quite a few games.

In this meatier post, sig makes another (mildly) positive comment toward Mesk.

The yellow bothers me for a number of reasons.

First, sig missed the vote, so the same complaint he raises against me he could have raised against himself. Or evil MP:

MovingPictures07
1
6%
Voters: MovingPictures07

Or Spacedaisy:

Sloonei
1
6%
Voters: Spacedaisy
Spacedaisy

So why single me out as "odd?" Was I obligated to vote nutella or Long Con? I don't believe I was. "Fallout" has a negative connotation, implying that I should have voted for a civilian to bring ire upon myself. The other irony is that sig doesn't apply any "fallout" to anybody who voted for nutella, who wasn't lynched but could not be mafia.

Even more ironic is what is wedged in between the yellow snow. sig didn't vote, but (sort of) implied that he would have voted Long Con for pushing a lynch on nutella (which would imply he thought nutella was good, which makes no sense if sig thinks I maybe should have voted for her or LC instead of DDL), but then in the same breath discredits his own opinion of LC with a sweeping generality and a comment that he "could see" both of us being good.

Nevermind I see Epi's reasoning.

What ever came of LC potential scum slip? That epi pointed out I don't see much mention of it, but I feel like there should be.

I'm not sure what the "never mind" applies to, but sig, despite feeling like people should be talking about it, doesn't have anything to say about it.

I'm semi caught up but skipped a few pages in the middle.

I don't like daisy going after me and sprit and other low posters that screams mafia. Targeting people who aren't around to one defend themselves and two yo lynch since you get less heat if they flip civ when lynched. Since they weren't active so no big deal. Is my thoughts regarding lynching low posters. I also don't like het posts on wilgy they seem like she's trying to spread paranoia

From my catch up eloh and epi look good. From what I've seen of wilgy I like. I've got a slight civ read of nutella and am a slight scum read on lc.

If I wanted to throw my vote somewhere I'd go for either daisy or maybe lc however given t he two wagons I'll look over the cases really fast.

I might make one or two more posts , I've got to be up early tomorrow to go out with my friends family and finish some homework so I might not.

It's worth noting that it is Day 5, and sig hasn't cast a single vote.

It's also worth noting that sig felt threatened by Spacedaisy and Spacedaisy was the first to die.

It's especially worth noting that sig, whether unwittingly or not, defended mafia MP by including him in his "don't lynch low posters" rant.

Without commenting on Wilgy himself, sig defended him by dismissing Spacedaisy's perspective as "trying to spread paranoia." What are civilians supposed to do? Hold hands and sing "Kumbaya?"

I don't like daisy going after me and sprit and other low posters that screams mafia. Targeting people who aren't around to one defend themselves and two yo lynch since you get less heat if they flip civ when lynched. Since they weren't active so no big deal. Is my thoughts regarding lynching low posters. I also don't like het posts on wilgy they seem like she's trying to spread paranoia.

1. My case against you and at first sprityo was never about low posters. It was about people who had been somewhat active but their content was so minimal that it was forgettable to me. So nice misrepresentation there.

2. I'm not spreading paranoia, I'm trying to sort through my own feelings and figure out if it's tinfoil insanity or really something. Also, if I was spreading paranoia I would not be so willing to hear other opinions and adjust based on good points in response.

This accusation was definitively a no u and it really makes me like the look of you even less.

It might've been a little no uish. However, I do see a main argument of your case being that we're low posters which is a slippery and dangerous route to follow.

2. That's something someone trying to spread paranoia would say.

linki: Jack would you mind explaining why you think you were almost lynched?

This post feels honest to me, and then we get this one:

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

sig has no included JJJ in his condemnation of apparent "low-poster hunters," which pleases me. It's a small thing, and of course one always is swift to raise the "distancing theory," but going after 3J is a task in itself, one that sig clearly had no time to invest in. To give the illusion any credibility, sig would have needed to tangle with 3J and vote for him- neither of which occurred.

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

Why does Jack get your favorable outlook here?

So assuming nutella is who I think she is, then Jack was leading the lynch. True there might be other vote things going on, but I feel like neither Jack nor sloonie would make sense for the mafia team to target with their minus 1. Unless we're all way off with mafia members.

Jack didn't die and I only saw one known role that can survive a lynch. If it wasn't Jack then it's sloonie.

The only other role would be the 3rd party. Usually I'm very anti Third party, however it doesn't appear that this role is a SK so I don't care much and would rather focus on mafia. Therefore one of them must be a civ.

Thanks nutella. It is strange, but I'm not sure I'd lynch on it.

Now I must be off to Thanksgiving lunch/dinner. I'll try to phone post a bit, but we'll see.

linki: True, if it starts killing I say we hunt it otherwise I'd say it's more important to go after mafia members and if we hit Olympus Mons it isn't a big loss

These posts look like an honest effort to work out what was going on with the lynch.

I'm here, I'll be catching up and addressing any posts directed at me tonight after my class so around 8ish and tomorrow.

I hope sig has not literally fallen off a cliff.

Are we talking about the same post here? Epignosis had a lot more negative to say than positive. Furthermore, two of the three green reads are "feels honest" and "looks honest".

[speedchuck]

Are we talking about the same post here?

Actually no. No we are not. Epi's later post in which he voted Quin is about Sig. You should read it.

[dunya]

Well, using my no-empathy rule, I'm going to be keeping my vote on Eloh and think she's really been trying to fly under our radars. She's not only been actively been sidelining, she has made so few cases on her own on anyone at all. I find that hard to believe in a thread of this size she doesn't have varying leads of her own in any capacity. It's all agreeing or seeing what someone else has said. That's honestly not helpful. Her reads have been all over the place for total weaksauce reasons. That rainbow she made Day 2 contradicted everything else she was saying.

I remember her other "active" townie game (I call active because she had more than 100 posts there and here), she was more intuitive and someone with opinions. Did she agree with various cases? Sure. But she also made her own observations. I can't see any original observations here. I can't see any contradicting observations either. She's followed the majority in every phase. She's been "catching up" every day. She was very strong to defend Epi, and I mentioned this before, but that was literally the only strong defense or opinion she's had in this whole game. But then when Long Con was stringing her on his theory, she flips on Epi even! This is like a few hours difference.

Spoiler: show

I want to hear more of what LC has to say because he has my ear

That's the opposite of how most people in the thread feel, I think. On any particular subject? Surely not about Epignosis.

Elohcin: ok, I think I have a different way of explaining it.

Quin thought Epi was buddying mesk and bob. In order for him to be right, that Epi is a baddie doing some buddying, he is assuming that mesk and bob are Civ. Are you with me on that?

I'm following.

But what if epi is bad and and either mesk or bob is as well. He he is buddying both -one teammate and one civ. That could be possible as well. Just a baddie trying to keep others on their toes...throwing people off their game.

She quickly provides a counter argument which she called "more likely", but for someone who was vocally defending Epi and calling LC sour from a previous game, why throw more shade Epi's way at all here especially if your point is that Epi is town..... I don't get that.

"Why can't I just sit and read mafia all day? " - I swear on something precious to me, Elo used this is exact same sentence (or some variation of it) in one of the other games I read of hers where she was scum. I remember it made me chuckle, I didn't notice it here till I reread her posts now.

When she finally does give "reads" she gave "good" reads.

Spoiler: show

I see Elohcin!

I still feel like you were voting epi for a nonsense reason which is what mafia will do.

Would love some content from you outside of LC v Epi.

Okay, I've finally caught up instead of folding laundry as a good wife and mother would. I am overwhelmed with all the info.

I like daisy this game and feel she is civ. She seems to be genuinely scum-hunting. At first, I liked her accusations...thoyght they could be valid. After catching up though, and tonanswer her question to me, I feel Epi is being genuine. I actually believe him that he is trying to be nicer and back off on the insults. Everything he has said is true. When he referred to not voting for bob and mesk on day 1...he never did say he thought they were good. And he is right about being falsly accused of liking to bus teammates early in a game. His meta doesn't show that he likes to do that often.

I think nutella is genuine as well. She seems to be trying to change up her game. I've been there before. I try to be different every game to keep people guessing but they still mostly guess I'm bad. Even though I think her posts are genuine thus far, that doesn't excuse her from veing bad imo. She may very well be.

Let's see.... I don't really have any other pings. There is so much content but nothing as condemning as what I see from LC.

Ask me a specific question, I'll answer... I'm an open book. I just find it difficult to wrap my head around a game this early. It takes me a bit to get a foothold usually.

Linki:. AND NOW I'M BEHING AGAIN!

I don't like that. I don't like that at all. I can't believe you can't find any content suspicious and decide to make reads that indicate why you think someone is good rather than why someone is bad. You're not lynching good people, you're lynching bad people.

She even made a half arsed read on nutella. She's genuine, but maybe she's bad. What does that give us? Why is she bad? What doesn't excuse her from being bad? What action?

Moving onto the next golden point:

Spoiler: show

Why is lynching a low poster being considered today?

Seems like it's general "at least if we are wrong we lose very little" mentality.

I don't think this is true. Talker or not, losing a civ is never a good thing and I don't think your quote represents the mentality of those willing to vote for a low poster. I like DDL's post.... (Let's see if I can double quote without fucking this up)

Why is lynching a low poster being considered today?

I find it unlikely that all if the scum can be found among the talkative folks.
I'm not advocating a lynch of a low poster without exhausting all our other options first.

I'll never understand this mentality. Worst thing about it is that it always seems to be the case.

Thah'ts why I compared low posters to zero posters.

There is that guy who makes 3-4 posts a day and contributes nothing. Sprityo, Sig and Wilgy could count on that category (personally I think Sprityo looks bad and I have no read on the other 2).

There is that guy who makes 1 post every 2 days saying hi and is a prime candidate for a replacement. I. e. Dom.

I think the former type can be a worthy lynch (though I'd like to ISO any of them before deciding). The later is not.

This is good. And it makes me want to look among the yellow for a good lynch candidate. Dom probably is just a quiet civ. I bet there are baddies among the yellows in our rainbow lists. Those we swe posting but haven't given enough to really say whether they are good or bad.

She thinks Dom is a quiet civ. Why is Dom a quiet civ after you name Dom one of your heavy scum reads in your rainbow list a few posts up? Why not sig or INH? You name Dom your 3rd scumspect and then agree that Dom is a quiet civ there are baddies among her yellow list. Too much wishy washy, too much inconsistency, too much agreeing with others.

------

as a sidenote, to take Eloh's voting patterns into consideration (these are just final votes, I can't be arsed to list her vote changes):
Day 1: Long Con (because of Epi obv)
Day 2: Sloonei
Day 3: speedchuck
Day 4: speedchuck (remember, we are to assume not all of Jay's scum mates tagged along on the Jay lynch so Eloh fits that criteria)
Day 5: malakim (a low poster)

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at 1.18am (my time) she gets a bit "angry" at nutella for calling her out on some inconsistencies:

Spoiler: show

Placing a vote on Jack. I'm really not sure how I feel about Eloh. I will say that regardless of alignment I disapprove of her approach. If you're not going to read everything, don't act surprised when you don't understand what someone is referring to.

Fuck this. All Im doing is reading and responding, reading and responding. I'm about to give up. Y'all want too much out of this old lady. I ain't got time for this crap.

but four minutes later she's laughing with Wilgy........

Spoiler: show

tbh, I agree with this. I feel like straight forward Wilgy has been more common recently too.

Haha... I agree actually. I feel like since vocaroo mafia, I have a whole new perspective of wilgy. And I like him.

I don't feel the frustration in that particular post was genuine as a result. If I am frustrated, I'd actually try to be more informed rather than make a jokey post right after exclaiming "fuck this", but that's just me...

Spoiler: show

And now I can ask this question without being a "Didn't Read" Denny. Eloh, why are Quin and Sloonei in the reddish zone? You have never mentioned them before.

Because theor posts don't feel very trustworthy.

I recall Epi once making the argument that Eloh is more invested in games when she has someone to talk to behind the scenes. In this game she's made multiple comments about the amount of effort she's been putting into getting caught up. Her tone in these posts has not been one of frustration or dejection, but instead she's seemed kind of gleeful about it, playing around and joking about her involvement. I like this attitude and approve of it in every way, which is why I feel dirty for turning it into a case against Eloh. If she is involved in BTSC, and has been since Day 1, then she's scum. And if this is the case and Epi's old argument is true, then her carefree attitude toward the avalanche of posts in this thread might be explained by her involvement with teammates behind the scenes. Or she's just having a jolly old time.

I'm actually not having a jolly ol time. I'm sick. I still have work this week...which is good with Christmas coming, but I have a cold, so not fun. Every time I read a page even when caught up, there is another page to read. And when I go to sleep, I wake up like 10 pages behind. I cannot think straight 'cause I'm sick. Went to the store to get meds and left my phone, that's how much I can't think straight. Sloon is being nit picky with me. I think he expects more from me than I can intellectually give. I'm not an intellectual like so many of you here. I play for fun and to try to keep my mind as sharp as possible as I age. Did I mention I'm sick and feel like crap. My meds didn't even seem to help.

I'm trying to guve enough effort so y'all don't suspect me. But I am usually lynched pretty early in games because I'm suspected. When I flip civ, people are confused. When I flip baddie they are all self congratulatory. Because no matter what my role, I'm always suspected by a few players early on. Y'all just need to leave me alone and go find a baddie.

Don't feel bad for skimming the game. I do it all the time.

Oh. My. Fuck. Who said I'm skimming? Not I!

Heck....epi makes anlot os sense. He was wrong about my skimming though. Yall expect too much out of me but you see....he doesn't even expect me to read the thread. Lets find some middle ground here. Anyway... sloonei probably thinks I'm an easy target. He knows that when I'm accused I tend to shut down and give up rather than fight.

It was actually DDL who pointed out it was ok to skim the game, not Epi, and not that she was skimming. I don't think she took that the right way. She writes long paragraphs about why she can't be present: why can't she write long paragraphs about game related things? I mean, not even long ones, short ones. Surely if you can find the time to write OT you can find the time to write in topic.
----


I'm on page 2 of her ISO now, will continue in between breaks of actual education.

[dunya]

Don't tou have some studying to do

I always have studying to do. Why didn't you answer my question?

[colonialbob]

I'm smellin what Epi is cookin (although it could be those delicious-looking cakes I suppose), and I've expressed suspicion before, so:

Quin

This looks very go-along, get-along to me.

I honestly don't understand what this means.

And after I complimented your cakes, too!