Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[nutella]

Ok first of all, no Epi it was not a stretch to say I was on Jay's side the whole time because I thought your accusation was bs right off the bat and because I had just caught up on 5 pages since my previous post and agreed with Jay throughout that reading.

Epi is full of shit and I will stand by that. I think he looks very bad because of it, but I could be wrong because I don't have a good handle on why he might act like this regardless of his alignment. I could be persuaded to vote for someone else (save Jay and Kyle) but for now Epi is my top suspect and I don't see what's opportunistic about that.

[Kylemii]

Kyle, what color would I be on your rainbow?

yellow

I'm not interested in lynching you today, and I think my involvement in the events that i was basing my read on you may have caused a bias in my view.

[Dyslexicon]

Since I am a terrible person, can someone tell me how long it is to day end?

Will start reading the game now.

[Sloonei]

Kyle, what color would I be on your rainbow?

yellow

I'm not interested in lynching you today, and I think my involvement in the events that i was basing my read on you may have caused a bias in my view.

Give me a gun-to-head read then.

[Sloonei]

Since I am a terrible person, can someone tell me how long it is to day end?

Will start reading the game now.

A little under 8 hours, I think

[Epignosis]

nutella voters, please tell me what you think of LoRab.

Lorab is someone I've wrongly accused more times than I can count. I think I've been right about her once. I have no opinion on her today. Nothing stands out.

What about meeeeeee?

You don't care about the roof.

[nutella]

Bear with me here as I'm on my slow af phone and will take a bit to respond to everything. But iirc Epi was bad in wtnv and the post speedchuck linked (Epi re: Tony) felt in some ways reminiscent of how he's been treating Jay. Maybe I'm reading it wrong and it's very different but that's the comparison I see (and rvb is stronger).

[Epignosis]

Ok first of all, no Epi it was not a stretch to say I was on Jay's side the whole time because I thought your accusation was bs right off the bat and because I had just caught up on 5 pages since my previous post and agreed with Jay throughout that reading.

Epi is full of shit and I will stand by that. I think he looks very bad because of it, but I could be wrong because I don't have a good handle on why he might act like this regardless of his alignment. I could be persuaded to vote for someone else (save Jay and Kyle) but for now Epi is my top suspect and I don't see what's opportunistic about that.

3J's second post was full of shit.

Why doesn't he look very bad because of it?

[speedchuck]

Speed
Mac
Wilgy
Epi
JJJ
Marmot
Sloonei
Dyslexicon
LC
Kylemii
FZ
Novaselinenever
Dave
Daisy
Lorab
Nutella

I don't know why I'm doing this when I'm so back and forth this game.

I don't mean to bite the gift horse in the mouth but why am I green?

Same reason as JJJ.

Crawled out of my tunnel, decided that your reaction wasn't as bad as could be, and attacked somewhere else.

[MacDougall]

The difference that I think speedchuck and Kyle are missing in my description of my own play:

Would I make it look like I am trying to accelerate a thread as a bad guy? Absolutely.

Would I actually do a good job? Nope.

This is such garbage.

[Dyslexicon]

I think if Jay doesn't come up with a valid "tell" that made him so sure as to call me out like he did then it's definitely a bad look for him.

As things are, based on past interactions with Jay he's likely to come out and say something like "there is no tell, I was just lying to build thread discussion" or "I'm not telling you what your tell is in case I need to use it again later"

I don't think either of those are acceptable answers for this.

Jay's usual civvie MO is to scatter bricks around on day 0 and 1 in order to start building discussion and put out reads. What Jay's done here is try to throw a single large brick at me, which causes no variation in discussion at all. The only discussion happening right now is surrounding me.

The only way that tactic comes from a responsible civvie mindset is if Jay really and truly believes in whatever he thinks my tell is

Meanwhile, JJJ isn't even anywhere to be seen and has probably fallen asleep behind some bushes. Why is this even a thing to discuss when FZ was the person I saw with some actual piece of reasoning?

This is probably old news, but this whole thing is kind of funny to me. Is Kyle always this easy to rile up? We should play more often.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The difference that I think speedchuck and Kyle are missing in my description of my own play:

Would I make it look like I am trying to accelerate a thread as a bad guy? Absolutely.

Would I actually do a good job? Nope.

This is such garbage.

Your snail-paced civilian team in Transistor was a delight. I was able to accelerate nothing and take full control over every conversation.

[Dyslexicon]

Since I am a terrible person, can someone tell me how long it is to day end?

Will start reading the game now.

A little under 8 hours, I think

Right. Good thing I remembered I had a game. I will read, cast a vote, and then sleep. Meow.

[Sloonei]

In a lot of recent games I've had the impression that most of the Day 1 noise was town-on-town aggression. I don't have that impression here. At least one major contributor is bad.

[nutella]

Agreed here. I think Nutella is being opportunistic.

What sold you on this one?

1. OK, I've been on Jay's side pretty much throughout this Epi bullshit, 2. and the comparisons to RvB and WTNV, as well as Epi apparently being afraid to lynch Jay, seal it for me. 3. I'm voting for Epi. 4. There's a sea of wifom here but basically 5. I don't think he should be acting like this even if it's to provoke reactions such as mine.

1. Citation needed. Nutella hasn't commented anything committal to the subject until now, when it's winding down
2. citing arguments that aren't hers to pad her post, ignoring any counters. Also, WTNV was an argument for town epi. Nut doesn't care.
3. The vote.
4. Disclaimer for when she's wrong
5. Very weakly-stated opinion that is not phrased as being alignment related and puts the blame on Epi for her voting him.

1. Answered. Was catching up and have been very committed to the stance that Epi is full of shit.
2. Answered. Must have interpreted the argument wrong.
4. I mean, sure, that's one way to put it. He could be civ, but I have no good reason to think so.
5. Basically what I meant by this was that if Epi meant the Jay/Sloonei w/w idea as another "poop" to get reactions, then he's taken it too far and it is not helpful anymore for him to play in the weird coy way that he has been.

[speedchuck]

In a lot of recent games I've had the impression that most of the Day 1 noise was town-on-town aggression. I don't have that impression here. At least one major contributor is bad.

Define major contributers.

Then take a side.

[nutella]

Ok first of all, no Epi it was not a stretch to say I was on Jay's side the whole time because I thought your accusation was bs right off the bat and because I had just caught up on 5 pages since my previous post and agreed with Jay throughout that reading.

Epi is full of shit and I will stand by that. I think he looks very bad because of it, but I could be wrong because I don't have a good handle on why he might act like this regardless of his alignment. I could be persuaded to vote for someone else (save Jay and Kyle) but for now Epi is my top suspect and I don't see what's opportunistic about that.

3J's second post was full of shit.

Why doesn't he look very bad because of it?

Because he did it first, because he has since explained, and because he's JJJ. Any more questions?

[MacDougall]

The difference that I think speedchuck and Kyle are missing in my description of my own play:

Would I make it look like I am trying to accelerate a thread as a bad guy? Absolutely.

Would I actually do a good job? Nope.

This is such garbage.

Your snail-paced civilian team in Transistor was a delight. I was able to accelerate nothing and take full control over every conversation.

That's not the part that I was referring to as garbage.

[speedchuck]

5. Basically what I meant by this was that if Epi meant the Jay/Sloonei w/w idea as another "poop" to get reactions, then he's taken it too far and it is not helpful anymore for him to play in the weird coy way that he has been.

unhelpful =/= scummy.
If Epi flips town, you're setting yourself up here to say "he took it too far" "It's his fault" "he should have played better"

linki: "did it first"
So the first person to fling bricks is allowed. The rest of us can't?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's not the part that I was referring to as garbage.

What's the part, MacDougall?

[Sloonei]

In a lot of recent games I've had the impression that most of the Day 1 noise was town-on-town aggression. I don't have that impression here. At least one major contributor is bad.

Define major contributers.

Then take a side.

5 players are responsible for roughly 80% of the posts in this game so far: you, me, kyle, jay, and epi. Those are the major contributors.

Right now I'd pick Kyle, but I haven't done my homework yet so I'm not ready to present in front of the class.

[nutella]

5. Basically what I meant by this was that if Epi meant the Jay/Sloonei w/w idea as another "poop" to get reactions, then he's taken it too far and it is not helpful anymore for him to play in the weird coy way that he has been.

unhelpful =/= scummy.
If Epi flips town, you're setting yourself up here to say "he took it too far" "It's his fault" "he should have played better"

linki: "did it first"
So the first person to fling bricks is allowed. The rest of us can't?

Okay. So if you lynch me you better be prepared to say "tsk tsk, she should have played better." Deal?

And... kind of. Depends on the situation, but I felt like Epi was taking advantage of the discussion of Jay's poop to toss in his own brazen accusation in hopes of getting lauded as an insightful town leader trying to stimulate discussion. No offense but Jay really has the comparative advantage in that business.

[MacDougall]

Firstly I wouldn't say acceleration of play is typically your agenda either way, perhaps when the game is slow yes but generally high volume is something to expect from you with or without other contributors.

And to discredit your mafia game is weird. I have seen you orchestrate as perceived supatown before to great effect and there are dusty memories likening this you to that you.

[MacDougall]

Sloonei you feel very different this game to MK.

[MacDougall]

JJJ what is your perspective on Sloonei?

[Epignosis]

Ok first of all, no Epi it was not a stretch to say I was on Jay's side the whole time because I thought your accusation was bs right off the bat and because I had just caught up on 5 pages since my previous post and agreed with Jay throughout that reading.

Epi is full of shit and I will stand by that. I think he looks very bad because of it, but I could be wrong because I don't have a good handle on why he might act like this regardless of his alignment. I could be persuaded to vote for someone else (save Jay and Kyle) but for now Epi is my top suspect and I don't see what's opportunistic about that.

3J's second post was full of shit.

Why doesn't he look very bad because of it?

Because he did it first, because he has since explained, and because he's JJJ. Any more questions?

It hardly needed to be explained.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Firstly I wouldn't say acceleration of play is typically your agenda either way, perhaps when the game is slow yes but generally high volume is something to expect from you with or without other contributors.

And to discredit your mafia game is weird. I have seen you orchestrate as perceived supatown before to great effect and there are dusty memories likening this you to that you.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I know my own volume is high across alignments. I am not talking about how hard I play or how hard I work, I am talking about the specific methods by which I cultivate a thread environment beneficial to my faction. There are clear differences.

It's funny how often I telegraph my own mafia-aligned methods, because nearly nobody listens to me and I can do it all anyway without fear of repercussion. Credit to MP at least who has used it against me to good effect in the past.

[Kylemii]

Kyle, what color would I be on your rainbow?

yellow

I'm not interested in lynching you today, and I think my involvement in the events that i was basing my read on you may have caused a bias in my view.

Give me a gun-to-head read then.

sloonei what is the purpose of this question? I've already outlined my view on you. I thought you looked bad because of the way you climbed on to Jay's thing. I'm acknowledging that my view on you could have been tinted by a bias created by my sometimes overly defensive nature. Nothing's changed in your behavior to swing you back in either direction so that's why you're yellow, a gun to head read on you right now would be arbitrary.

[Epignosis]

5. Basically what I meant by this was that if Epi meant the Jay/Sloonei w/w idea as another "poop" to get reactions, then he's taken it too far and it is not helpful anymore for him to play in the weird coy way that he has been.

unhelpful =/= scummy.
If Epi flips town, you're setting yourself up here to say "he took it too far" "It's his fault" "he should have played better"

linki: "did it first"
So the first person to fling bricks is allowed. The rest of us can't?

Okay. So if you lynch me you better be prepared to say "tsk tsk, she should have played better." Deal?

And... kind of. Depends on the situation, but I felt like Epi was taking advantage of the discussion of Jay's poop to toss in his own brazen accusation in hopes of getting lauded as an insightful town leader trying to stimulate discussion. No offense but Jay really has the comparative advantage in that business.

This isn't a pissing contest.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ what is your perspective on Sloonei?

I think he looks civilian. His tinfoil feels authentic and I think he has pursued his reads with a ferver and thoroughness typical of him. If I've any concern it's that he and I haven't agreed on much and we usually do.

[speedchuck]

5. Basically what I meant by this was that if Epi meant the Jay/Sloonei w/w idea as another "poop" to get reactions, then he's taken it too far and it is not helpful anymore for him to play in the weird coy way that he has been.

unhelpful =/= scummy.
If Epi flips town, you're setting yourself up here to say "he took it too far" "It's his fault" "he should have played better"

Okay. So if you lynch me you better be prepared to say "tsk tsk, she should have played better." Deal?

No, I'm pretty sure Sloonei's going to lynch me if you're town. He's got the tar and feathers all ready for me.

[Epignosis]

I just realized something about Lorab.

Spoiler: show

She corrected my spelling.

[Epignosis]

I'd say nutella cares about the roof.

[speedchuck]

JJJ is back to Epi without announcing that he was once on nutella.

Who else was on nutella? There were 4 votes there once upon a time.

[Kylemii]

fwiw jay actually does seems like he'd be cocky* enough to telagraph his mafia strategies while he's a civilian.

*i say this with all due respect

[MacDougall]

I generally read Lorab wrong and I am reading her town so take that fwiw.

[MacDougall]

Firstly I wouldn't say acceleration of play is typically your agenda either way, perhaps when the game is slow yes but generally high volume is something to expect from you with or without other contributors.

And to discredit your mafia game is weird. I have seen you orchestrate as perceived supatown before to great effect and there are dusty memories likening this you to that you.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I know my own volume is high across alignments. I am not talking about how hard I play or how hard I work, I am talking about the specific methods by which I cultivate a thread environment beneficial to my faction. There are clear differences.

It's funny how often I telegraph my own mafia-aligned methods, because nearly nobody listens to me and I can do it all anyway without fear of repercussion. Credit to MP at least who has used it against me to good effect in the past.

I kind of feel like you are doing that now but I can't quite put my finger on it.

[Epignosis]

I generally read Lorab wrong and I am reading her town so take that fwiw.

On what basis?

[MacDougall]

I generally read Lorab wrong and I am reading her town so take that fwiw.

On what basis?

Her posts feel similar to posts I vaguely recall from civ games she was in.

[MacDougall]

JJJ is back to Epi without announcing that he was once on nutella.

Who else was on nutella? There were 4 votes there once upon a time.

Epignosis was the other. Strange.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ is back to Epi without announcing that he was once on nutella.

Who else was on nutella? There were 4 votes there once upon a time.

"I have clicked a button" was the nutella vote. I think she sounds genuine right now. I don't know her as the type to rage against people when she's bad, least of all Epignosis.

[Kylemii]

Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

[MacDougall]

Gth Daisy and Dizzy are scum.

[MacDougall]

Kyle you're scum too.

[MacDougall]

No iso button on phone dang it.

[MacDougall]

Let's lynch Kyle and then be overwhelmed by the wifom of his most recent post for the rest of the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

fwiw jay actually does seems like he'd be cocky* enough to telagraph his mafia strategies while he's a civilian.

*i say this with all due respect

Philosophy: Do what it takes to win now, in the current phase of the current game. Don't worry about future games. When that time comes you'll have to deal with it however you must.

It has helped me to continue improving, or at least I'd like to think so.

[Kylemii]

Let's lynch Kyle and then be overwhelmed by the wifom of his most recent post for the rest of the game.

dislike.

[MacDougall]

Speedchuck in the interest of developing a read on you could you opine on the strangeways the Jay and Epi situation unfolded from the perspective of either being Mafia? It'll be fun.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gth Daisy and Dizzy are scum.

Why those two and not the other low-content folks?