Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[MacDougall]

ok "green is not a creative color" was just a silly reference to a youtube video. I felt the same way about the list having that much green regardless of who made it, and I must have glossed over it when speed posted it originally.

Does this mean then that your suspicion on this matter is for speedchuck and not for MacDougall?

Sure, but I have already discussed this with speedchuck and more or less resolved the matter. Meanwhile my question about Mac copying the list still stands.

I am not sure how I feel about either of them at the moment.

So when I asked the question the reply is "are you even reading the thread" but when he asks it you provide this level of insight? Interesting.

It was phrased differently. Your question came right after I had realized it was speed's list and I literally said the words "my point still stands" and asked speed about it. After that discussion, Jay asked whether that meant I suspected speed and not you, and I responded that the original point applied to speedchuck but I might also suspect you for another reason.

Fair enough but you came at me relatively gung-ho and you are not coming at him with anything that looks like force to me. That to me looks like you weren't genuine about being suspect of me for the list but just trying to frame a case against me for the purpose of looking like you're trying.

If that's the case though, the question would be why you didn't flip your suspicion to speedchuck with the same level of enthusiasm.

I don't really understand why you're reading a single emoticon as "coming at you gung-ho" or "enthusiasm." I think maybe you are disproportionately reading into it. It's barely a "suspicion" at all -- yes, I used the suspish emoticon, but.. well I don't want to get into an extended discussion of the contextual implications of emoji semantics, but I'm not sure how you're figuring that I was "coming at you gung-ho" based on a single use of an emoticon and no other basis. I posed the original question to speedchuck, and meanwhile was left to wonder why you copied his list.

Please show me where I demonstrated an enthusiastic suspicion of you.

I feel like solitary suspish emoji's are quite strong statements. I use them as such and I react to them as such. Not tantamount to a vote or a wall or something but certainly stronger than what you've demonstrated to speedchuck.

[Epignosis]

True story:

In the only other DFaraday Speed Game, I got lynched Day 1 for the first time ever, because I fell asleep at my desk and didn't save myself.

I'm not seeing baddie LA. I also feel like there was quite the bandwagon going on earlier against her, although it seems to have moved off.

I'm going to vote Epi for now. I'm not feeling great and may fall asleep on the keyboard, so want to be sure to not forget to vote. He's really the only one I'm noticing who is playing their baddie game.

I'm going to sleep.
Not sure I like Marmot's vote there, though I admit there are some pages I didn't read. The days are way too short for me

If I get lynched, lynch the people who voted for me and fell asleep.

They don't care about the roof.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How do y'all feel about the three Syndicate veteran women, Daisy aside, soul reading Epignosis as evil?

[speedchuck]

I like nutella's tone right now, and I don't want to lynch Lorab D1. Nothing Kylemii has done has pinged me for hours, and I'm mafia fatigued right now.

You followed me, [mention]DrWilgy[/mention]. Now I want to follow you. Where are we going?

[Kylemii]

@Kylemii Thoughts on ties in this game? (ignoring that you're one of the players up for the 'tie')

I don't understand the purpose of this question. Is it cus I've previously been really amped up for ties? I've grown up. New year, new me.

I still like close votes that give the mafia a potential chance to save, I think it puts them in a psychological shit zone where they have to make a decision on whether to dunk their teammate or save them, and it often ends up being reflected in their posts.

I guess technically in this game ties are like 3% better than usual because we have at least one civvie role that can break ties.

In terms of this actual literal situation, I don't like this one. Not only because I'm part of it but because I don't think Epignosis is an incredible lynch candidate.

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy if I followed Mac onto Kylemii would you follow me

Yeah dude as long as you can tell me why.

I'm not sure I can. My gut is all queasy right now. Would you rather lynch Epi?

You and Hazelnut are the only two I know anything about.

I can't read Epi for shit anyways unless I dedicate at least 2 in game cycles to specifically him.

[Dyslexicon]

We must all care for the roof.
I'm not yay on an Epig or Kyle lynch really. Sue me etc.

I guess I only feel good good about Speed, which is scary because magical whip reasons so it doesn't even feel good, but he thought the same thing as me more than once and that felt good so hi.

[speedchuck]

@Kylemii Thoughts on ties in this game? (ignoring that you're one of the players up for the 'tie')

I don't understand the purpose of this question. Is it cus I've previously been really amped up for ties? I've grown up. New year, new me.

I still like close votes that give the mafia a potential chance to save, I think it puts them in a psychological shit zone where they have to make a decision on whether to dunk their teammate or save them, and it often ends up being reflected in their posts.

I guess technically in this game ties are like 3% better than usual because we have at least one civvie role that can break ties.

In terms of this actual literal situation, I don't like this one. Not only because I'm part of it but because I don't think Epignosis is an incredible lynch candidate.

Who IS an incredible lynch candidate?

[MacDougall]

Mac, why are you so trusting of Epig?

That's better.

I forgot how helpful you could be

This is the word that makes FZ town.

[Dyslexicon]

How do y'all feel about the three Syndicate veteran women, Daisy aside, soul reading Epignosis as evil?

I mean, I think this is the first time I've seen him explain himself in detail. Usually it's more intuition based but stated as facts which has been frustrating in other games (again, not invalidating playstyle, just my memory of it).

[DrWilgy]

Fuck it lets kill Kyle.

I like the idea of Dunsparce using rockslide on Volcarona anyways.

[Dyslexicon]

I think MacDoug is probably town?

[speedchuck]

My strongest townreads are on Mac and Wilgy. That's a clear sign that I need to step away from the game for a while.

I'll try to drop back in before lynch.

[speedchuck]

Wilgy why did you follow me?

[Dyslexicon]

My strongest townreads are on Mac and Wilgy. That's a clear sign that I need to step away from the game for a while.

I'll try to drop back in before lynch.

And I wanted to be your town buddy. =(

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy why did you follow me?

Because I'm bad at reading you.

[nutella]

Mac, why are you so trusting of Epig?

That's better.

I forgot how helpful you could be

This is the word that makes FZ town.

Huh. I... I guess I'll take your word for it.

[Dyslexicon]

Neither Epig or Kyle are voting each other - which is peculiar kind of. I guess they will if things stay the same?

I'll either let my vote stay or switch ro LoRab cause idfk. And I need to sleep very soon.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My FZ read leans civilian, and I am influenced by the 2015 GOC when I was faced with a crapload of errant suspicion and she was one of the few contrary voices who saw the civilian in me. There's at least some parallel here.

[MacDougall]

I'm going to lodge a veto request of the Epignosis lynch on the following grounds;

a) The primary case against him as been made by JJJ who is the most followable player in the game
b) I don't agree with his arguments
c) If JJJ is Mafia then losing Epignosis's tendency to keep him accountable by revelling in being contrarian feels tantamount to just losing the game

[Dyslexicon]

Oh, and JJJ and Nut are mutually defending each other. Don't know if that information will ever be relevant. Just an observation.

[speedchuck]

My strongest townreads are on Mac and Wilgy. That's a clear sign that I need to step away from the game for a while.

I'll try to drop back in before lynch.

And I wanted to be your town buddy. =(

I had your name in that post, but then deleted it.

I'm getting buddied HARD. Someone save me!

[speedchuck]

Wilgy why did you follow me?

Because I'm bad at reading you.

I don't understand.

[MacDougall]

Mac, why are you so trusting of Epig?

That's better.

I forgot how helpful you could be

This is the word that makes FZ town.

Huh. I... I guess I'll take your word for it.

To me, the comment she made proves that she was actually looking for help. I don't feel like she would have used that word if she was fabricating her play.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm going to lodge a veto request of the Epignosis lynch on the following grounds;

a) The primary case against him as been made by JJJ who is the most followable player in the game
b) I don't agree with his arguments
c) If JJJ is Mafia then losing Epignosis's tendency to keep him accountable by revelling in being contrarian feels tantamount to just losing the game

I am considering alternatives. I don't care for many of them. I'm not lynching Kyle. What do you recommend?

[MacDougall]

I have a fairly compelling reason for thinking she is town but it's probably one of those things that is only compelling to me. I don't want to target paint on her if I am wrong and it is genuinely compelling though...

Note: I did say this.

[Dyslexicon]

I voted LoRab. I don't have any other reason than the posts sounds meh to me. Hi, LoRab, write an angry letter to me.

[DrWilgy]

I'm going to lodge a veto request of the Epignosis lynch on the following grounds;

a) The primary case against him as been made by JJJ who is the most followable player in the game
b) I don't agree with his arguments
c) If JJJ is Mafia then losing Epignosis's tendency to keep him accountable by revelling in being contrarian feels tantamount to just losing the game

I agree with this. Let's lynch Dizzy.

Wilgy why did you follow me?

Because I'm bad at reading you.

I don't understand.

Don't worry about it m8. I've come to the conclusion my brain works in ways that I can't describe and others won't understand. I see lines connecting things where there is nothing but dirt and blood and the occasional baby dolphin gasping for air as you hug it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I voted LoRab. I don't have any other reason than the posts sounds meh to me. Hi, LoRab, write an angry letter to me.

If these Epignosis and Kyle wagons hold, which do you think should be lynched?

[Kylemii]

Who IS an incredible lynch candidate?

honestly I'd almost rather go for a low poster or something

I dont feel like any of the votes on me could have been opportunistic votes to save a mafia Epignosis except for maybe Wilgy. I'm afraid of this being civ/civ just based on ambiance.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm off to bed. Good night and good luck. <3
May the fiddler be with you and the roof stable.

[MacDougall]

I'm going to lodge a veto request of the Epignosis lynch on the following grounds;

a) The primary case against him as been made by JJJ who is the most followable player in the game
b) I don't agree with his arguments
c) If JJJ is Mafia then losing Epignosis's tendency to keep him accountable by revelling in being contrarian feels tantamount to just losing the game

I am considering alternatives. I don't care for many of them. I'm not lynching Kyle. What do you recommend?

Well my rainbow list suggests that aside from Nutella and Kyle the next most viable candidates are you and Sloonei. I would be okay with lynching a group 3 candidate but none of them are even red through ping or gut.

Shall we analyse Sloonei for a change?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Who IS an incredible lynch candidate?

honestly I'd almost rather go for a low poster or something

I dont feel like any of the votes on me could have been opportunistic votes to save a mafia Epignosis except for maybe Wilgy. I'm afraid of this being civ/civ just based on ambiance.

What do you think of the votes on Epignosis?

[DrWilgy]

Who IS an incredible lynch candidate?

honestly I'd almost rather go for a low poster or something

I dont feel like any of the votes on me could have been opportunistic votes to save a mafia Epignosis except for maybe Wilgy. I'm afraid of this being civ/civ just based on ambiance.

I agree. No one is leaping at the tie I made.

[Dyslexicon]

If these Epignosis and Kyle wagons hold, which do you think should be lynched?

Probably didn't want to think about that, but I'd say Epig.

Also, do you have a read on me?

[nutella]

I'm going to lodge a veto request of the Epignosis lynch on the following grounds;

a) The primary case against him as been made by JJJ who is the most followable player in the game
b) I don't agree with his arguments
c) If JJJ is Mafia then losing Epignosis's tendency to keep him accountable by revelling in being contrarian feels tantamount to just losing the game

I am voting for Epi for reasons that I have reached on my own. Granted, these reasons are related to the JJJ stuff, but I drew my own conclusions, I'm not just following JJJ. I have not discounted the possibility that JJJ is bad. If Epi dies and flips town, I promise I will scrutinize JJJ with every fiber of my scrutinizin'.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well my rainbow list suggests that aside from Nutella and Kyle the next most viable candidates are you and Sloonei. I would be okay with lynching a group 3 candidate but none of them are even red through ping or gut.

Shall we analyse Sloonei for a change?

I'm open to hearing about your Sloonei suspicions.

[Kylemii]

I'm going to lodge a veto request of the Epignosis lynch on the following grounds;

a) The primary case against him as been made by JJJ who is the most followable player in the game
b) I don't agree with his arguments
c) If JJJ is Mafia then losing Epignosis's tendency to keep him accountable by revelling in being contrarian feels tantamount to just losing the game

I agree with this. Let's lynch Dizzy.

Why Dizzy?

[DrWilgy]

I'm going to lodge a veto request of the Epignosis lynch on the following grounds;

a) The primary case against him as been made by JJJ who is the most followable player in the game
b) I don't agree with his arguments
c) If JJJ is Mafia then losing Epignosis's tendency to keep him accountable by revelling in being contrarian feels tantamount to just losing the game

I agree with this. Let's lynch Dizzy.

Why Dizzy?

Why not?

[nutella]

Oh, and JJJ and Nut are mutually defending each other. Don't know if that information will ever be relevant. Just an observation.

This is both true and untrue. Suck it, Law of Excluded Middle.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If these Epignosis and Kyle wagons hold, which do you think should be lynched?

Probably didn't want to think about that, but I'd say Epig.

Also, do you have a read on me?

GTH civilian. Your analytic efforts appear authentic at face value, and I don't think you needed to make them given the conditions of the thread if you're mafia.

[Dyslexicon]

"Now let's all agree to never be creative again."

[MacDougall]

If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:

Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.

However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.

We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

Game with infodumping and role-claiming: cop > probabilistic/interval civilian BTSC inclusive of four

Game without infordumping and role-claiming (like this one):

I'm going to say the cop is slightly weaker in this case. Without reveals, civilian BTSC becomes one of the strongest available roles, because it is easier to read -- it involves two people simultaneously vouching for each other. A cop can only promote reads him or herself, and it might not be as easy for others to figure out that there is an information basis behind those reads.

It's debatable though. speedchuck is a civilian for discovering that this question is worth asking.

He could have conceived of the question pre-game. Null read for me.

I'd probably prefer civ BTSC to an unclaimable cop thing.

First major post scores civ points for disagreeing with Jimmy to simply bring down a civ read to null.

Potential scum motivation - Speedchuck is teammate and it places distance. Speedchuck is civ and it benefits scum Sloonei to keep doubt on speedchuck's alignment in the general consensus.

Reads far more like he is just trying to be a voice of reason.

Not seeing this as a mafia post.

[Dyslexicon]

Nut has changed though. She's being all sassy. I like it.

Night for real.

[MacDougall]

Not seeing Sloonei's barrage of one word posts as Mafia either.

[DrWilgy]

Nut has changed though. She's being all sassy. I like it.

Night for real.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

True story:

In the only other DFaraday Speed Game, I got lynched Day 1 for the first time ever, because I fell asleep at my desk and didn't save myself.

I'm not seeing baddie LA. I also feel like there was quite the bandwagon going on earlier against her, although it seems to have moved off.

I'm going to vote Epi for now. I'm not feeling great and may fall asleep on the keyboard, so want to be sure to not forget to vote. He's really the only one I'm noticing who is playing their baddie game.

I'm going to sleep.
Not sure I like Marmot's vote there, though I admit there are some pages I didn't read. The days are way too short for me

If I get lynched, lynch the people who voted for me and fell asleep.

They don't care about the roof.

You're voting for Wilgy. Do you want to lynch either FZ or LoRab now?

[nutella]

So.... why do people think Kyle is bad?

[nutella]

Wilgy, why are all your ideas so bad?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]LoRab[/mention], could you describe what you perceive Epi's baddie game to look like at least briefly?