Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[Epignosis]

Do you suggest that your play in this thread is incompatible with a mafia Epignosis?

That more or less was the point of the exercise.

You often claim to be a player without "meta", one whose civilian and mafia games look the same. What is it about your play in this game that you don't believe would exist in a mafia version of your play?

If my civilian and mafia games look the same, why do you want to lynch me? What makes this different?

It's your claim, not mine. I don't think they look the same.

That's not my claim. Every game of mine is completely different. That isn't the same thing as saying "My civilian and mafia games are the same." That's your assumption. So my question stands.

[Sloonei]

If i'm going to be blanketed with scum reads can you all at least do me the courtesy of including a reason? "Your tone is phony" and "you don't care about the roof" do not qualify as reasons.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's not my claim. Every game of mine is completely different. That isn't the same thing as saying "My civilian and mafia games are the same." That's your assumption. So my question stands.

Your play in this game reminded me so much of RED vs. BLUE that I was able to pinpoint a single moment of you spewing the same bullshit then that you spewed here. Your question is not applicable.

Answer my question.

[Epignosis]

That's not my claim. Every game of mine is completely different. That isn't the same thing as saying "My civilian and mafia games are the same." That's your assumption. So my question stands.

Your play in this game reminded me so much of RED vs. BLUE that I was able to pinpoint a single moment of you spewing the same bullshit then that you spewed here. Your question is not applicable.

Answer my question.

No.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's not my claim. Every game of mine is completely different. That isn't the same thing as saying "My civilian and mafia games are the same." That's your assumption. So my question stands.

Your play in this game reminded me so much of RED vs. BLUE that I was able to pinpoint a single moment of you spewing the same bullshit then that you spewed here. Your question is not applicable.

Answer my question.

No.

Then die. You don't give two shits about the roof.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In a lot of recent games I've had the impression that most of the Day 1 noise was town-on-town aggression. I don't have that impression here. At least one major contributor is bad.

Why do you feel this way and what makes this game applicable to that scenario?

[Epignosis]

That's not my claim. Every game of mine is completely different. That isn't the same thing as saying "My civilian and mafia games are the same." That's your assumption. So my question stands.

Your play in this game reminded me so much of RED vs. BLUE that I was able to pinpoint a single moment of you spewing the same bullshit then that you spewed here. Your question is not applicable.

Answer my question.

No.

Then die. You don't give two shits about the roof.

That was already your decision coming in here. I had nothing to gain from this exchange.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That was already your decision coming in here. I had nothing to gain from this exchange.

You feel that way because you're mafia. You know as well as anyone that I can be foaming at the mouth about a person and then completely drop my suspicion at the drop of a hat if I find a good reason.

I opened the door and you slammed it in my face.

"It's not about ego"

[Epignosis]

That was already your decision coming in here. I had nothing to gain from this exchange.

You feel that way because you're mafia. You know as well as anyone that I can be foaming at the mouth about a person and then completely drop my suspicion at the drop of a hat if I find a good reason.

I opened the door and you slammed it in my face.

"It's not about ego"

No dude. If you are a civilian, I feel like you failed me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That was already your decision coming in here. I had nothing to gain from this exchange.

You feel that way because you're mafia. You know as well as anyone that I can be foaming at the mouth about a person and then completely drop my suspicion at the drop of a hat if I find a good reason.

I opened the door and you slammed it in my face.

"It's not about ego"

No dude. If you are a civilian, I feel like you failed me.

"You failed me"

You just shoved a "no" in my face when I tried to talk with you.

If you're a civilian, visit your nearest mirror.

[Epignosis]

That was already your decision coming in here. I had nothing to gain from this exchange.

You feel that way because you're mafia. You know as well as anyone that I can be foaming at the mouth about a person and then completely drop my suspicion at the drop of a hat if I find a good reason.

I opened the door and you slammed it in my face.

"It's not about ego"

No dude. If you are a civilian, I feel like you failed me.

"You failed me"

You just shoved a "no" in my face when I tried to talk with you.

If you're a civilian, visit your nearest mirror.

All you do every time we interact is show your ignorance as to how I operate.

If you lynch me tomorrow, and I am a civilian, how will you reconcile that with what you have said about me?

[Epignosis]

I said that "You failed me," because you of ALL people should know what I was doing Day 1. You keep trying to string me up instead.

[Epignosis]

To everyone else who cares about the roof:

I have Sloonei, JJJ, nutella, Lorab, FZ., probably Marmot and the ghost of Spacedaisy coming in here to lynch me tomorrow.

They can't all be bad.

When I am lynched, grill them. Don't let them make excuses. Grill them on a grill that does not contain both meat and dairy.

[Sloonei]

In a lot of recent games I've had the impression that most of the Day 1 noise was town-on-town aggression. I don't have that impression here. At least one major contributor is bad.

Why do you feel this way and what makes this game applicable to that scenario?

This has felt like a more volatile and hostile atmosphere than, for instance, Moutain Mafia or Seinfeld. I haven't had the same sense of thread unity as in those games.

[Sloonei]

I've decided Epignosis is right. I don't give a shit about his roof.

[speedchuck]

In a lot of recent games I've had the impression that most of the Day 1 noise was town-on-town aggression. I don't have that impression here. At least one major contributor is bad.

Why do you feel this way and what makes this game applicable to that scenario?

This has felt like a more volatile and hostile atmosphere than, for instance, Moutain Mafia or Seinfeld. I haven't had the same sense of thread unity as in those games.

I agree with this more than anything sl One I has said all game

[Long Con]

I said that "You failed me," because you of ALL people should know what I was doing Day 1. You keep trying to string me up instead.

I'm bad at remembering. Can you remind me what you were doing Day 1? Two games going on, hard for a guy like me to keep perfect track.

[Sloonei]

In a lot of recent games I've had the impression that most of the Day 1 noise was town-on-town aggression. I don't have that impression here. At least one major contributor is bad.

Why do you feel this way and what makes this game applicable to that scenario?

This has felt like a more volatile and hostile atmosphere than, for instance, Moutain Mafia or Seinfeld. I haven't had the same sense of thread unity as in those games.

I agree with this more than anything sl One I has said all game

Thanks sp Eed Chuck

[Sloonei]

I am not going to argue that I was not being stubborn about Kyle yesterday. If that's the way I came across, that's the way I came across. But I can honestly say that I was not pursuing him with as much conviction as I'm being accused of. He was my top suspect for much of the day, but he was a widespread town read. I had thoughts about him that were not being discussed anywhere, so I laid them out in one exceedingly long post. After that, it felt like a wave of people jumped down my throat for spinning some bogus case against Kyle, but the only one of them who I felt actually engaged critically with that case was Kyle himself. Others were just piling on me while offering zero discussion on the case I was trying to discuss. It was immensely frustrating, and if I grew stubborn or irritated, it was because of this and nothing else. I wanted to talk about my primary suspect but no one would engage me and instead I was getting sand thrown in my eyes for it. My mind is by no means made up on Kyle, nor has it ever been at any point in this game. If anything, I feel better about him after the events of last night. But I still have doubts about him that have not been resolved. I'd like it if he could at least be in consideration to be lynched tomorrow. If you're going to tunnel on me, at least let the person I'm being accused of tunneling also be discussed.

[Sloonei]

ISO links:
Dave
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
FZ.
JaggedJimmyJay
Kylemii
Long Con
LoRab
MacDougall
Marmot
novaselinenever
nutella
Sloonei
Spacedaisy
speedchuck

And our host, DFaraday.

[DFaraday]

Night 1 - Sabbath Prayer

So the tailor was not our enemy. Still, we knew he was out there, and it was our duty to find this fiend before any more harm came to our village. However, it was also about to be the Sabbath, so we decided that the search could wait awhile.

It seems the killer thought so as well. He's very considerate, this killer. He knows his Leviticus.

It was a quiet and peaceful evening, let us hope the first of many.


Nobody has been killed. Effective immediately, Spacedaisy is replacing Dave.

It is now Day 2. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

[DFaraday]

The morning report from Avram:

What up, meshugenahs? It's Avram here to lay down some scripture for y'all. Day 1 was rough and tensions were high. It was tragic to lose Daisy, but things could have turned out worse. Thankfully there's a lot to pull out in terms of content from that day. So let's begin!

The last minute exodus away from Sloonei and Epignosis in the poll was troubling. It could in part be that players tend to be averse to lynching vocal leaders on Day 1, but it would be neglectful to ignore the possibility that the Devil's hands were active in this movement. If you're asking me, I'd prefer we focus on Epignosis of the two.

Why Epignosis? Because his case stinks. There's no noticeable progression. There's no discernible reason at all from this bookkeeper's perspective.

It's not all wrath and fury though. This Israelite thinks Macdougall is alright. His night work has been a godsend, and it should receive it's due focus during this upcoming day phase.

Nutella might not be kosher. Us Jews got to stick together, and I'm not so sure she's doing that. The conversation needs to be open and flowing, but I don't feel that coming from her.

That's all I've got for you this night, folks. Be thorough and active, and if you're with us, be accepting of others. These times are tough, but the promised land is ahead of us.

[Sloonei]

welcome back, daisy! I'm happy to have you return, but also dreading the vote you're about to put on me.

[Long Con]

Excellent result! And the night went well too!

By that I mean welcome Spacedaisy.

[Sloonei]

Put a vote on Mr. Gnosis.

[Sloonei]

Excellent result! And the night went well too!

By that I mean welcome Spacedaisy.

Gimme suspects.

[LoRab]

Shabbat shalom, bitches.

So, I indeed fell asleep last night. And had one of those days at work with way too many meetings and having to write a sermon in the midst of it...complete with a trip to the doctor who put me on antibiotics for a sinus infection. Still finishing reading the last lynch and the overnight chat.

The wagon on daisy seemed to happen pretty quickly, which doesn't look good. Still have an eye on Epi. Still reading up on a really busy end of day, so unsure if anything changed.

I'm in Philly for tomorrow for the women's march--won't be on much during the day, but late afternoon and evening I should be all full of posting.

Will try to finish reading up tonight. We'll see how long I am able to stay awake.

Linkitis: No death is good and interesting...welcome back Daisy....

[Spacedaisy]

They say hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...

I did a catch up today and I'm going to drop a stream of consciousness style post on you all. But I had better add some spoiler tags first otherwise this is going to be an insane wall o' text.

[Spacedaisy]

Spoiler: show

To be more specific regarding my thought process (since I'm so often accused of pretzel logic and am getting that criticism here again), my initial concern was how Kylemii failed to consider that 3J was bad and was making a move against him. Had the Vocaroo sequel not have happened, I might have carried on with considering that a sign of Kyle's (subconscious) guilt revealing itself, but when I read Kyle's posts in his own voice, that feeling went away.

I agree 100% with what Epi said here, and later I saw Jay calling this into question. I was reading Kyle’s posts and hearing them literally in his voice. We chat on discord, he played the Vocaroo sequel. Hearing it in his voice, it seemed clear to me that this was sincerity. If I am wrong props to Kyle, but seriously I have trusted him since he first started posting because frankly he is the most sincere sounding player I have heard in this game so far.

Spoiler: show

The most pressing question emerging from this then would be: Epignosis, why won't you be voting for me today?

Because you're a shitty Day 1 lynch.

Why?

Now you're just fishing for compliments.
Because if you are good, then that's an active, vocal, passionate mafia-hunter gone, one who didn't even get a real chance to catch anybody.
And if you are bad, then that's an active, vocal, passionate mafia member who will be interacting thoroughly with his teammates.

This ^ is not a baddie mind set. If Epi is bad why this?

Spoiler: show

If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:
Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.
However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.
We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

This is interesting. I need to think on this because traditionally I've always viewed civs with BTSC as one of the strongest things the civs can have...

This post accomplishes nothing.

Let’s talk about that post for a moment. I had read this idea about holding off on the searches to gain BTSC. Normally I would be someone who falls on the side of civ BTSC is a greater weapon against baddies than other power roles because POE. But I found the idea interesting and wanted to go back and look over it and think over it to see if I felt like it was actually a good trade off. My intention was to come back and follow up after I did this. The road to a mislynch is apparently paved with good intentions, because I got to work and was busier than I anticipated and couldn’t do it. Did it accomplish anything? Nope. Except maybe it did put out there that trading off civ BTSC should not be taken lightly. Did it make me bad? Well we all know the answer to that one now, don’t we? Sloonei’s approach here is shitty at best and has been the whole game. Let’s review how he dealt with Kyle…

Alright let's goooooo.
Everyone please do me a solid favor and describe yourselves in terms of playstyle in whatever level of detail you feel is necessary. It's important.
It's nice to meet you all.

was it "let's go"? I've been trying to make it a thing lately. as like a fun tradition of sorts I guess.

mmmmmlets go

I opened with "let's go" in vocaroo as well, and a few other games I think.
Is that it? My next few posts in that thread were to make excuses for being late to the thread and to call people out for being shitty and rude to each other, and to ask people about their usual meta. I haven't done any of those things so it has to be the "let's go" right? :-?

Incredulous

Kyle is with the Russian Police. Discuss.

strongly disagree

I'm afraid that is irrelevant. I know your tell and you have revealed yourself. I am sorry to wreck your game so quickly, but it's just how this works.

that's actually 100% false? first of all, I am a kind and hard-working citizen of Anetevka, so that part's wrong
second of all you've never even seen me play as mafia before, the only player in recent history who has is dunya and even then it was just one game under unique circumstances, not enough to build correlation from

Indignant

okay so you think a 48 hour long game with teens who kept being terrible dicks to each other is going to be indicative of how I play in a real game as mafia?
one game isn't enough for real tell correlation, famous poker player sneezes the first time they roll a full house you don't just assume that they have a full house the second time they sneeze

Incredulous & Indignant.

i don't recognize any parallel

Negative

i actually kinda assumed you were lying for standard day zero jay-prod purposes?

Dismissive

okay so you think a 48 hour long game with teens who kept being terrible dicks to each other is going to be indicative of how I play in a real game as mafia?
one game isn't enough for real tell correlation, famous poker player sneezes the first time they roll a full house you don't just assume that they have a full house the second time they sneeze

So you recognize the parallel then?

boom rekt

I really don't recognise the parallel. I don't even know for sure if there is one without looking. In this game I've comfortably talked about musicals with people I already know, and in that game (I think?) I spent the first several of my posts trying to get to know the players on that site. I'm like 60% sure Jay is just making things up to prod for reactions but if not then he's wrong and his basis is flawed. If there really is a parallel Jay sees then it's 100% just a coincidence and not caused by alignment-bias.

Indignant

Alright let's goooooo.
Everyone please do me a solid favor and describe yourselves in terms of playstyle in whatever level of detail you feel is necessary. It's important.
It's nice to meet you all.

was it "let's go"? I've been trying to make it a thing lately. as like a fun tradition of sorts I guess.

mmmmmlets go

I opened with "let's go" in vocaroo as well, and a few other games I think.
Is that it? My next few posts in that thread were to make excuses for being late to the thread and to call people out for being shitty and rude to each other, and to ask people about their usual meta. I haven't done any of those things so it has to be the "let's go" right? :-?

Incredulous

Hey @JaggedJimmyJay I'm telling you right now, if you get me wrongly lynched and don't reveal what you thought the tell was then I'm not going to easily forgive you for it.
If you're really just making this up then it's not a cool tactic. If you legitimately think I have a tell then sure fine whatever, everyone's wrong sometimes, but if not then you have to take responsibility for it. Promise me.

Defiant

I take everything that involves me seriously.
Jay is a thread-leader. Stuff he says often ends up having impact. I'm not going to ignore it when he makes some vague claim about me, especially not if people are actually listening.

Indignant

Hey @JaggedJimmyJay I'm telling you right now, if you get me wrongly lynched and don't reveal what you thought the tell was then I'm not going to easily forgive you for it.
If you're really just making this up then it's not a cool tactic. If you legitimately think I have a tell then sure fine whatever, everyone's wrong sometimes, but if not then you have to take responsibility for it. Promise me.

Why leave out the third option?

the option where I survive has no bearing on my request. What I'm saying that if I do end up getting lynched for Jay's 'tell' then Jay has to be held accountable. He can't just say something like "oh well it didn't work this time but I'm going to keep what it was a secret in case it's a tell in the future. " and shrug it off.
If his tactic here causes me to die then I want his reasoning to be thoroughly checked into.

Obtuse

Sloonei is not being a civ, he is being a movie reviewer. He basically started this game by giving one word interpretations of what he thought the posts sounded like. He did not offer content, Kyle was 100% in that, but I feel like he has been bullied into backing off that early assertion he made in response to Sloonei’s handling of him. Tell me how these posts added or assisted anyone in anyway in their scum hunt?

Spoiler: show

Daisy, Dave, Dizzy, FZ, NVN, I have almost no impression at all of any of these players yet

I'm here, I'm trying to catch up but it's not working for me very well.
I'm on page 8 so things can change. At the moment, I find myself agreeing with JJJ on Epi. Something there feels not genuine. I haven't played for a while, but I think civ Epi is more careful, and what he's doing now, is acting like he's going full force after what he believes. Sloonei said he wouldn't be this blunt on day 1, but if people are going to say that, then Epi has no problem acting just like that.
Kyle is really defending himself and making sense, so I do feel better about him. That being said, I like to trust my initial instincts, and even though no one seemed to agree with me, the post I talked about did feel to me like a frustrated baddie who doesn't like the civvies' powers.

Don't try to catch up

Good Lord I am on page 13 and people were piling their votes on Kyle with no real case having been presented on him. This lynch… I can’t even begin to express my utter astonishment at the bs that went down in here yesterday!

Spoiler: show

I'm interested in @Spacedaisy's read on me

Well I’ve been pretty clear I think you are civ since I placed my vote and then promptly got strung up by the pitchfork mob for no good reason, but I’m curious as to why you singled me out for this question Kyle?

That's rich coming from someone who didn't notice that my rainbow was copied from the previous page.

"wow, i can't believe you actually really believed i was telling the truth while i was obviously being purposefully deceptive for a weird joke"

I didn't post the rainbow list to make a joke. I posted the rainbow list to determine the level to which people were paying attention to see if I could analyse any level of collusion.

I like this post. I like this guy.

Spoiler: show

True story:
In the only other DFaraday Speed Game, I got lynched Day 1 for the first time ever, because I fell asleep at my desk and didn't save myself.

I'm not seeing baddie LA. I also feel like there was quite the bandwagon going on earlier against her, although it seems to have moved off.
I'm going to vote Epi for now. I'm not feeling great and may fall asleep on the keyboard, so want to be sure to not forget to vote. He's really the only one I'm noticing who is playing their baddie game.

I'm going to sleep.
Not sure I like Marmot's vote there, though I admit there are some pages I didn't read. The days are way too short for me

If I get lynched, lynch the people who voted for me and fell asleep.
They don't care about the roof.

The irony in this post, I can't even...

Spoiler: show

I'm going to lodge a veto request of the Epignosis lynch on the following grounds;
a) The primary case against him as been made by JJJ who is the most followable player in the game
b) I don't agree with his arguments
c) If JJJ is Mafia then losing Epignosis's tendency to keep him accountable by revelling in being contrarian feels tantamount to just losing the game

Another excellent post by Mac. I have clearly not played enough games with Mac. I am sad however that our reads on people are so different given what I’ve seen so far in my catch up. We’ll see how things develop in the future.

Spoiler: show

Don't worry about it m8. I've come to the conclusion my brain works in ways that I can't describe and others won't understand. I see lines connecting things where there is nothing but dirt and blood and the occasional baby dolphin gasping for air as you hug it.

Dude, I feel this way all the time too.


Ok, I came to Sloonei’s “case” against Kyle. Here is my big beef with this whole situation. Actually you know what, I think I have a couple of them. First of all, you went through and assigned emotional motivation to his posts. That is pretty much all you did. You read through and tried to say I think this reflects such and such emotion. But even if you were right, do you really think civs don’t get indignant? Do you think they don’t find accusations against them incredulously? It was thoroughly unhelpful commentary to begin with. So right from the start I have a problem with you. Then you followed it up with these picked apart explanations, but what you fail to take into consideration is the fact that the game being referenced was a bad experience for Kyle, and one he has in the past as a civ also said, dude this is so not representative of my normal play. So anyone leveling a charge against him based on that game would have immediately gotten the emotional backlash of a bad experience. Some of your other points are self defeating too. By that I mean, you say he didn’t question why, but later you quote him literally trying to question what this accusation is based on and cite it as an example of him being bad. Kyle has in my opinion adequately explained all of his actions on Day 1. Your case was self contained and contradicted itself. I have a real problem with that. Lastly you and Long Con both picked apart how he phrased things as indicators of a slip basically. I think this is a stretch at best. Baddies are cautious in how they phrase things, civs are not. Kyle was posting from a frustrated place and trying to figure out how serious Jay actually was. You look super opportunistic here. Not a good look.


And now we come to the beginning of my lynch. Unfortunately I can’t tell who I was tied with that Epi decided to break to my detriment? Can anyone please help me out with that?


One thing of note, I was only the second person to vote for Sloonei. When I voted Epi had 4 and I think someone else had 3. I was far from suddenly coming in and drive by voting someone into danger. Additionally, Kyle implied before my vote that he wasn’t likely to leave it there. So everyone who suddenly changed your votes, I would like some explanations. All I am seeing is “I changed my vote.” “Yuck.” And other such one line bs. So let’s see some people owning their mistakes, I want to know why, because no one seemed to want to ask that question while it was happening.

Spoiler: show

Daisy is an easy and unfair lynch too now. It has to be one of you imo.

Yeah, Mac is confirmed town in my mind at this point right here. He was pulling for a lynch of someone other than the leaders and saw the sudden train on me for what it was and called it out. Well done Mac. I think you were the only one.

Spoiler: show

Daisy is an easy and unfair lynch too now. It has to be one of you imo.

Ooh, I never like this thing. Mac read dropping.

Please clarify, you never liked what thing?

Spoiler: show

Daisy is an easy and unfair lynch too now. It has to be one of you imo.

Ooh, I never like this thing. Mac read dropping.

I would feel bad for her. Thats all there is to the comment.

I wouldn't. She's trying to get me lynched. Just put yourself in my shoes and be absolved.

So which way was it, was I drive by voting or was I trying to get you lynched? :roll eyes:

Spoiler: show

Daisy is an easy and unfair lynch too now. It has to be one of you imo.

Ooh, I never like this thing. Mac read dropping.

I would feel bad for her. Thats all there is to the comment.

I wouldn't. She's trying to get me lynched. Just put yourself in my shoes and be absolved.

Scum don't get lynched like that. It's too easy.
One of you is probably Mafia. The EOD intensity feels like a potential hit.

Mac bringing it again.

Spoiler: show

I'm gone. Leaving my vote on Daisy, as it were.
If you guys want to lynch one of the big town players, whether it be Sloon, Epi, Kylemii... heck, even me or JJJ, go ahead. Try to get the support. I'm not able to tell which one of you is full of crap without flips to go on. Whatever happens, happens. I kinda hope that you do lynch someone other than Daisy, if there's a little more consensus.
Because...
That will give us some IN FOR MAI SHI OHN

Speedchuck you are problematic. Cast your vote, but ask them to vote elsewhere, cast no real suspicion anywhere.

Sloonei, your top four civilian reads GO

Speedchuck, you, Mac, FZ
Although mac's current treatment of daisy will look bad if she is scum.

And how do you think it looked now that you know Daisy 1.0 was good?

Spoiler: show

Bummer, Daisy.
It's Day 1, we got it wrong, oh well. There's plenty to review and time to regroup.

Spoiler: show

Nah dude. Wolves are Epi and two of speedchuck, Long Con, or LoRab.
I'm good. Kyle's good. LC's prolly bad.
Wilgy's good. Marmot, who the fuck knows.

Where did you get LC being bad from? Maybe I missed it earlier but this seems like your first mention of him as a wolf read.

I'm going to fling a brick. A maybe-true brick?

I didn't register that he faulted me for not reading kyle's posts that way. Yuck. Also he's accusing me of "doint nothing except pound Kyle into the ground" without having read the post in which I pounded kyle into the ground. Yuck.
Sorry Daisy. we should have lynched Epi.

And now that we both want him dead, his agenda has shifted back to "Jay saved Sloonei" and a bunch of meaningless "they're in love" jokes.
I'll vote for him the moment Day 2 starts.

You shoulda just lynched him with me today you ninny.

Yeah. Thankfully we can remedy that next.

I don't like this. It's almost like Jay used the opportunity to vote Daisy, delaying a lynch that he'd already set up.
That's what I always think when I see preemptive D2 planned votes, especially from big players that usually try not to tunnel. This could shut down discussion, and it highlights the delay while seeming apologetic about the lynch.
If anybody has a better way to describe this ping, feel free.

Overconfident Night 1 POE:
Dave
DrWilgy
Epignosis
Long Con
novaselinenever

Quite a lot of low-hanging fruit in this POE.
I am of the opinion that at least one of JJJ, Epi, and Sloonei are scum. I don't know which one. Or if it's the only one. Another scum is hiding among the others that have been around, and we probably have one low poster scum. No basis for this other than how the game has gone.
I'm going to try to narrow down my three candidates on that.

And then Speedchuck posts something like this and I think he must be good. You are so problematic for me man. I can’t decide where to put you on my rainbow.

Spoiler: show

Anyway, we're lynching Epi tomorrow. I thought we'd already decided that.

Um wut? "We already decided this" is a really bad way to go into the next day, sets a nice little lynch train right up.

[Sloonei]

I thought Kyle looked bad in his early posts. I will make no apology for that. I could have been wrong. I might have been wrong. Having experienced frustration on par with what he exhibited, I'm feeling it's likely that I was wrong. But it looked to me on Day 0 like he was arguing against his own conscience. It was awful to make a case and get absolutely no critical response to it other than "you're bad." Even if I was 100% wrong, which absolutely might be the case and was always a possibility in mind, I just wanted to fucking talk about my suspect. I was never, on any planet, trying to bury or bully Kyle.

I appreciate your post, Daisy. You're wrong about me.

Also I told FZ "not to catch up" because I'm actively campaigning against catching up. It's in my signature and I talked about it at length after Vocaroo. Catching up when you're far behind in the thread is a waste of time.

[Spacedaisy]

I thought Kyle looked bad in his early posts. I will make no apology for that. I could have been wrong. I might have been wrong. Having experienced frustration on par with what he exhibited, I'm feeling it's likely that I was wrong. But it looked to me on Day 0 like he was arguing against his own conscience. It was awful to make a case and get absolutely no critical response to it other than "you're bad." Even if I was 100% wrong, which absolutely might be the case and was always a possibility in mind, I just wanted to fucking talk about my suspect. I was never, on any planet, trying to bury or bully Kyle.

I appreciate your post, Daisy. You're wrong about me.

Also I told FZ "not to catch up" because I'm actively campaigning against catching up. It's in my signature and I talked about it at length after Vocaroo. Catching up when you're far behind in the thread is a waste of time.

I have more thoughts Sloonei, those are just my thoughts in the moment I did my catch up, as I was reading. I have more coherent thoughts that I was gathering too, but I want to see reactions to these first before I put those out there. It could be telling to some of my suspicions that have been percolating. And I have some people I came away with a feeling I need to ISO them. All that to say, I'm sorry if I upset you. Also, don't take my shit posting after my lynch too seriously, I was worked up, but I was posting like a crazy person because I honestly believed (and still do) that there are some questions the civs should be asking about the way that played out. I was trying to get people talking about it. But I still have you up there on my suspect list, so don't get too comfy either.

[Sloonei]

Anyway it's done

https://screencast.com/t/mOEFHqlSOri

Let's talk about this. I'm not fully sure how to read this chart, and ideally Mac should be the one leading this discussion, but I don't want to ignore the good work he put in last night. There's a lot of red cells attached to Jay's and Kyle's names in here, and that's something to note. One is my strongest town read, the other has been my most prominent scum read. I'm curious about the two "impossible" pairings: Speedchuck/Kyle and Epi/nutella. The latter features two players I am at least mildly suspicious of.

[speedchuck]

Spoiler: show

Daisy is an easy and unfair lynch too now. It has to be one of you imo.

Ooh, I never like this thing. Mac read dropping.

Please clarify, you never liked what thing?

"Has to be one of you two"

It's like Mac is setting an ultimatum between two players here.
Doesn't matter much because he clarified after.
Sorry I'm so troublesome.

and yay! no one died!

[Sloonei]

I thought Kyle looked bad in his early posts. I will make no apology for that. I could have been wrong. I might have been wrong. Having experienced frustration on par with what he exhibited, I'm feeling it's likely that I was wrong. But it looked to me on Day 0 like he was arguing against his own conscience. It was awful to make a case and get absolutely no critical response to it other than "you're bad." Even if I was 100% wrong, which absolutely might be the case and was always a possibility in mind, I just wanted to fucking talk about my suspect. I was never, on any planet, trying to bury or bully Kyle.

I appreciate your post, Daisy. You're wrong about me.

Also I told FZ "not to catch up" because I'm actively campaigning against catching up. It's in my signature and I talked about it at length after Vocaroo. Catching up when you're far behind in the thread is a waste of time.

I have more thoughts Sloonei, those are just my thoughts in the moment I did my catch up, as I was reading. I have more coherent thoughts that I was gathering too, but I want to see reactions to these first before I put those out there. It could be telling to some of my suspicions that have been percolating. And I have some people I came away with a feeling I need to ISO them. All that to say, I'm sorry if I upset you. Also, don't take my shit posting after my lynch too seriously, I was worked up, but I was posting like a crazy person because I honestly believed (and still do) that there are some questions the civs should be asking about the way that played out. I was trying to get people talking about it. But I still have you up there on my suspect list, so don't get too comfy either.

You've not upset me. No individual person has upset me, and I don't like to express too much emotion in games. It was just the overall atmosphere of the thread that irritated me last night. It felt unproductive. I want game threads to be productive. I could have done a better job myself.

[Spacedaisy]

That is one thing you and I can agree on, but more on that when I post the coherent version of my thoughts later. First let's hear some conversation in here and it better be more than conversation about freaking Kyle or people just saying Epi is a foregone conclusion. That's just about as lame as my lynch was. Even if he is lynched, don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs and say, aren't we all just voting Epi?

[Kylemii]

Nice night. no kill is good news and space daisy replacing back in is also good news.

Yesterday was kind of a cluster-fuck, but today is a new day. Let's try to do a little better this time. No one died and Space Daisy's replaced back in, so we can treat this like a second chance.

[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] I'm sorry for my part in your original iteration's death I got cold feet about lynching Sloonei and changed my vote last minute, although I guess 2-3 other players did the same thing at the same time which is still pretty weird.

I'm not gonna crop your question out of that post cus it looks like a formatting nightmare, but the reason I singled you out for that question is cus at that time first-you hadn't commented on me or any of those shenanigans. You've always been really quick to recognize my civilian game since... idk... probably firefly? Your read on me would a potential avenue to me having a read on you, had you not died.

[Spacedaisy]

I have to work early tomorrow, but I will be checking in on my phone as frequently as possible. Don't lynch me again while I'm working or I might start taking it personal.

[Long Con]

I thought Kyle looked bad in his early posts. I will make no apology for that. I could have been wrong. I might have been wrong. Having experienced frustration on par with what he exhibited, I'm feeling it's likely that I was wrong. But it looked to me on Day 0 like he was arguing against his own conscience. It was awful to make a case and get absolutely no critical response to it other than "you're bad." Even if I was 100% wrong, which absolutely might be the case and was always a possibility in mind, I just wanted to fucking talk about my suspect. I was never, on any planet, trying to bury or bully Kyle.

I appreciate your post, Daisy. You're wrong about me.

Also I told FZ "not to catch up" because I'm actively campaigning against catching up. It's in my signature and I talked about it at length after Vocaroo. Catching up when you're far behind in the thread is a waste of time.

I agree - I have made the difficult decision in both these games already, to allow myself to skip pages to be present for 'current' thread progression over catching up. It's not ideal, but I have to work with what time I have.

[speedchuck]

That is one thing you and I can agree on, but more on that when I post the coherent version of my thoughts later. First let's hear some conversation in here and it better be more than conversation about freaking Kyle or people just saying Epi is a foregone conclusion. That's just about as lame as my lynch was. Even if he is lynched, don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs and say, aren't we all just voting Epi?

Since you've had a 24-hour period of just being able to ruminate without posting, I have a request of you. I'm going to put some pairings below. Make the assumption, in each pairing, that one is scum and one is not. Then tell me which one you'd shoot.

Epi vs Jay
Epi vs Sloonei
Dizzy vs FZ
LoRab vs Marmot

Feel free to throw one out if you have no thoughts on it, or throw another pair in.

[Long Con]

Nice night. no kill is good news and space daisy replacing back in is also good news.

Yesterday was kind of a cluster-fuck, but today is a new day. Let's try to do a little better this time. No one died and Space Daisy's replaced back in, so we can treat this like a second chance.

@Spacedaisy I'm sorry for my part in your original iteration's death I got cold feet about lynching Sloonei and changed my vote last minute, although I guess 2-3 other players did the same thing at the same time which is still pretty weird.

I'm not gonna crop your question out of that post cus it looks like a formatting nightmare, but the reason I singled you out for that question is cus at that time first-you hadn't commented on me or any of those shenanigans. You've always been really quick to recognize my civilian game since... idk... probably firefly? Your read on me would a potential avenue to me having a read on you, had you not died.

OH my God BR has gone to bed, but I KNOW she'd be absolutely thrilled to see you bring Firefly up.

[speedchuck]

It is highly unlikely that Epi is mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I voted.

[speedchuck]

Actually, @everyone. GTH, say one of JJJ and sloonei are scum. Which one?

[Sloonei]

I don't buy any part of Epi's case against me from yesterday. This is complicated by the fact that Epignosis is Epignosis, and he'll ride a bullshit argument as town if he feels like it. But I'm struggling to identify the townie motivation behind this case. He started by stating that he "has never known anyone to pour that much effort into a Day 1 case as that" in reference to my post on Kyle. I don't know what exactly he meant to imply here (despite asking about it more than once), but at the very least it's clear that he observes effort on my part. But then shortly after he drops this bullshit on me:

Sloonei doesn't care about the roof.

If this means anything, I interpret it as an accusation that I don't care about this game. Despite putting in exceptional effort on a Day 1 case.
Prior to this, he gave me an even more bullshit suspicion:

Can somebody summarize the cases against marmot and epi for me? I've seen discussion of them, but it's hard to pin down the central points.

You call me a civilian and you need central points on me?

Fuck out of here. I don't care if you "townread" me. You wrote a dissertation on Kylemii. You could spent five minutes to figure out why the ladies love me.

I had a civilian read on Epignosis. Other people did not have a civilian read on Epignosis. I sought to engage in a conversation with these people about Epignosis. Epignosis told me to "fuck out of here" for this. Then a couple hours later, he said this about me:

Sloonei has done nothing in my estimation except pound Kylemii into the ground.

Fuck outta here. I tried to talk about you and you did nothing except pound me into the ground for it.
From that same post:

We both played Vocaroo Too! Mafia, and I expressed why I think Kylemii is civilian. Sloonei, to my knowledge, has not commented on Kylemii's tone were he to read his posts in Kylemii's voice.* Furthermore, Sloonei quickly called me good. Should he have done so? And on what basis?

*Granted, I have not read Sloonei's novel on Kylemii, which I will do so shortly.

So all of this comes without having actually touched my most substantive post, the post in which my read of Kyle is fully detailed. This is what it looks like to bury a player. I presented a case and tried to talk about it. Epi just tried to shut me down.

[Sloonei]

I voted.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I voted.

Give me reads on every player not named Kyle or Epignosis.

[Sloonei]

That is one thing you and I can agree on, but more on that when I post the coherent version of my thoughts later. First let's hear some conversation in here and it better be more than conversation about freaking Kyle or people just saying Epi is a foregone conclusion. That's just about as lame as my lynch was. Even if he is lynched, don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs and say, aren't we all just voting Epi?

Since you've had a 24-hour period of just being able to ruminate without posting, I have a request of you. I'm going to put some pairings below. Make the assumption, in each pairing, that one is scum and one is not. Then tell me which one you'd shoot.

Epi vs Jay
Epi vs Sloonei
Dizzy vs FZ
LoRab vs Marmot

Feel free to throw one out if you have no thoughts on it, or throw another pair in.

Epi
Epi
Dizzy
LoRab

[nutella]

Oh hey no death, and welcome back daisy!! And a nice message from Avram too, gonna reread that

Actually, @everyone. GTH, say one of JJJ and sloonei are scum. Which one?

Sloonei, but they are far from mutually exclusive. If Sloonei is lynched and flips bad I would lynch Jay next. I think they are likely teammates.

God you guys I'm so torn. Half of me really wants to stick to my guns and lynch Epi but the other half really wants to stick to my other guns and lynch sloonei, and that second half sides with Epi on the notion of Sloonei/Jay w/w. I'm afraid of making the wrong choice... but it's still early game so I guess if I pick the wrong one first I'll go for the other next... hmmm

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, Daisy, I have a few disagreements with your mammoth post that I cannot adequately cover on my phone. Stand by.

[nutella]

That is one thing you and I can agree on, but more on that when I post the coherent version of my thoughts later. First let's hear some conversation in here and it better be more than conversation about freaking Kyle or people just saying Epi is a foregone conclusion. That's just about as lame as my lynch was. Even if he is lynched, don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs and say, aren't we all just voting Epi?

Since you've had a 24-hour period of just being able to ruminate without posting, I have a request of you. I'm going to put some pairings below. Make the assumption, in each pairing, that one is scum and one is not. Then tell me which one you'd shoot.

Epi vs Jay
Epi vs Sloonei
Dizzy vs FZ
LoRab vs Marmot

Feel free to throw one out if you have no thoughts on it, or throw another pair in.

Epi
Epi
Dizzy
LoRab

y tho

I'd have picked FZ and Marmot for sure (well Lorab vs Marmot is less sure but. guise dizzy is fosho town yo)

tell me about those two picks